NationStates Jolt Archive


2nd American Civil War?

Anadyr Islands
26-02-2007, 08:48
What if, in the near future, the United States of America had a civil war? How do you think it would begin? How would the country be split? How might it end? Any possible consequences of the war?

I think New England and New York would band together, Texas and California would become their own independent states and all the states in the middle of the country like Kansas,Nebraska and all that would end being unclaimed 'bandit' territory or something like that. But that's just my imagination.
Dosuun
26-02-2007, 08:52
Why, are you planning something?
Steel Butterfly
26-02-2007, 08:53
Hmm...well you're really asking for a lot there. Sure I could come up with something, but I'm saving it for the next great American novel/Michael Mann film ;)

The problem is that there is no issue, such as slavery/state's rights, that divides the nation on such recognizible borders, like the mason-dixon line or north/south. This was a common thread topic back in the "red state/blue state" hayday, but the reality is that the American "culture war" is between the urban and rural areas of the country...so as it stands now...there's no civil war in sight because there are no real sides or boundaries.

There has to be a huge future issue that isn't seen or expected right now that would divide the country that much.
Infinite Revolution
26-02-2007, 09:02
if there was going to be another american civil war it'd probably be between christians and secualrists/everyone else.
Middle Snu
26-02-2007, 09:13
The concept is, frankly, laughable without some major changes in our society taking place first. America is such an open society that despite our national proclivities for violence, civil war just won't happen. (Read "The J-Curve" for an analysis of this). Unless, of course, something goes wrong.

If America ends up in a nuclear war with China (a pretty silly idea in its own right, but let's not get into that), and American society essentially collapses, then I could see a Second Civil War... maybe. More likely, anarchy would simply break out, and if we did break into multiple nations, it would be a peaceful split.
Australia and the USA
26-02-2007, 09:32
The biggest difference nowadays isn't north/south but blue/red, and even that isn't enough to start a war over. And i'd go down to the store and get myself a gun and say im a big patriot, stay in my house and get a big gun and wait for a redneck to invade my house... in Arlington, Massachusetts (which is near Boston for those of you that don't know), which is nowhere near someone who would even come close to being a redneck, that way i can pretend to be patriot and tough...without doing anything.
Zefielia
26-02-2007, 09:50
if there was going to be another american civil war it'd probably be between christians and secualrists/everyone else.

...How do you figure that?

And the civil war, if it does come within the forseeable future, will likely be between the federal government and local state governments and/or militias.
Kyronea
26-02-2007, 10:27
There's not even a real cultural divide over "red state/blue state" or "urban/rural." Trust me, I've been in all four throughout my life, as I'm sure many others of you have. The "red state/blue state" shit is shoved down our throats by certain aspects of the media because they get ratings and money from sensationalism, and the urban vs. rural thing is a load of shit that anyone who's ever lived in both can spot from a mile away. Fact is, there isn't anywhere near as much of a divide as one might think in this country. At most it's a couple small sects of complete and total idiots (Hardcore bush supporters, far-right Christians, and the neo nazi/racist groups) and everyone else is only slightly divided by political opinions.
La Habana Cuba
26-02-2007, 18:45
The Metropolitan Area of Miami would become the independent Hispanic Republic of Miami under Cuban American control,
it might include parts or all of Broward County, maybe even
Monroe County Florida - Key West - Cayo Hueso- Cayo Weso as well,
under President Lincoln Diaz-Balart and
Vice President Ileana Ros-Lehtinen,
then it could become a Province of Cuba.
lol,:) :D
The Psyker
26-02-2007, 18:47
What if, in the near future, the United States of America had a civil war? How do you think it would begin? How would the country be split? How might it end? Any possible consequences of the war?

I think New England and New York would band together, Texas and California would become their own independent states and all the states in the middle of the country like Kansas,Nebraska and all that would end being unclaimed 'bandit' territory or something like that. But that's just my imagination.
?WTH? You realize those of us living here might just decide to claim it right?:rolleyes:
Morganatron
26-02-2007, 18:50
?WTH? You realize those of us living here might just decide to claim it right?:rolleyes:

Not to mention that those of us in the other Southwest states might have something to say about it. :D
Greill
26-02-2007, 18:55
I wouldn't mind a bloodless Civil War. In fact, the benefits from greater political decentralization would be wonderful, as the various new states would have to compete with one another instead of being able to monolithically apply their coercion onto the populace. Heck, we might even get a monarchy or two!
Pure Metal
26-02-2007, 19:34
http://homepage.univie.ac.at/horst.prillinger/blog/p3/jesusland.jpg

:confused:
Novus-America
26-02-2007, 19:41
Where's that, "Aw, Jeez?" pic when I need it. . .
Eve Online
26-02-2007, 19:44
Where's that, "Aw, Jeez?" pic when I need it. . .

If you link to pics like that now, the mods will say you're spamming... :eek:
Utracia
26-02-2007, 20:02
Meh, the only instance I see any chance of this is if the government continues to attack our civil rights and some states decide they don't care for the desecration of the Constitution...
Farnhamia
26-02-2007, 20:12
Meh, the only instance I see any chance of this is if the government continues to attack our civil rights and some states decide they don't care for the desecration of the Constitution...

Okay, suppose they do. Then what? I think the whole secession issue was decided in the early 1860's, wasn't it? I believe there was an interlude 'round about then.

And anyway, the Feds have all the really effective weapons. Do you really think Bob from down the street who does a weekend every month can stand up to the 3rd Armored?

:rolleyes:
Ultraviolent Radiation
26-02-2007, 20:12
What if, in the near future, the United States of America had a civil war? How do you think it would begin? How would the country be split? How might it end? Any possible consequences of the war?

I think New England and New York would band together, Texas and California would become their own independent states and all the states in the middle of the country like Kansas,Nebraska and all that would end being unclaimed 'bandit' territory or something like that. But that's just my imagination.

Well, TV stations would have to stop broadcasting first, before anyone could be bothered to fight (this goes for other countries too).
UN Protectorates
26-02-2007, 20:13
And anyway, the Feds have all the really effective weapons. Do you really think Bob from down the street who does a weekend every month can stand up to the 3rd Armored?

:rolleyes:

What if the 3rd Armored are fighting along with Bob and friends? And the 1st and the 2nd... Maybe not the 4th.
Get what I'm saying?
Utracia
26-02-2007, 20:18
Okay, suppose they do. Then what? I think the whole secession issue was decided in the early 1860's, wasn't it? I believe there was an interlude 'round about then.

And anyway, the Feds have all the really effective weapons. Do you really think Bob from down the street who does a weekend every month can stand up to the 3rd Armored?

:rolleyes:

One would think that if any state would attempt to secede then the military bases in their territory would either join the secession or be suppressed somehow. Only way to hope for any success. Though if relations between the federal government and some of the states were so poor, I don't see it out of the question that some elements of the military would join up if they felt that Washington was violating the Constitution.

But this all sounds like some bad novel so it is irrelevant anyway.
Farnhamia
26-02-2007, 20:18
What if the 3rd Armored are fighting along with Bob and friends? And the 1st and the 2nd... Maybe not the 4th.
Get what I'm saying?

Sure, but that's not what Utracia was saying. If we had the Army join a revolt, that's entirely different. I just don't see it, though. I don't believe we've ever had an entire unit refuse orders in modern times (there were a couple of mutinies during the Revolution when state units didn't get paid, or were unhappy abut not getting to go home, and a few incidents during the Civil War when some volunteers found out that they'd volunteered for the duration instead of for a year or two like they thought). But, hey, if things got bad enough, who knows? I just hope I'm not around if it ever comes down to that.

And yeah, Ut, it does sound like a bad novel, I agree. No point arguing about it.
UN Protectorates
26-02-2007, 20:21
But this all sounds like some bad novel so it is irrelevant anyway.

You have obviously not read this series of awesome novels written on the very subject.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline-191
Farnhamia
26-02-2007, 20:26
You have obviously not read this series of awesome novels written on the very subject.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline-191

Ah, Harry Turtledove. I've read the Great War books, well, one of them, anyway. But that assumes the south won the first war, which isn't what the OP here assumed. At least, I don't think so.

I've always found it interesting that even with Lee's Order 191 in his hand, McClellan couldn't pull it off at Antietam. He should have rolled the Confederates up like a cheap rug. Oh, well.
UN Protectorates
26-02-2007, 20:28
Yeah I know it isn't exactly what the OP is about, however the alternate timeline is up to the 1940's now, with an alternate WW2, and is expected to reach the 2000's sometime in the future.
Utracia
26-02-2007, 20:30
You have obviously not read this series of awesome novels written on the very subject.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline-191

I've read Turtledove's WWII series with the alien invasion and enjoyed it greatly. The "what if" where the Confederacy won the Civil War and fights the Union in the Great War was, in my opinion, a poorer series.
Farnhamia
26-02-2007, 20:47
I've read Turtledove's WWII series with the alien invasion and enjoyed it greatly. The "what if" where the Confederacy won the Civil War and fights the Union in the Great War was, in my opinion, a poorer series.

It's been a while since I've read any of the books. The trouble I have with series that go on and on like this is that the novelty wears off after Volume 5, and I get bored. I did like the character of George Custer in the Timeline-191 series, an old reprobate still serving.

I like McKinlay Kantor's If the South Had Won the Civil War. He brings up the interesting thought that if the South won, the North wouldn't have bought Alaska, so when the Russian Revolution happened, well ... Soviet missile bases in Fairbanks? And all that oil from the northern coast going where?

But my all-time favorite is Ward Moore's Bring the Jubilee. I wonder where my copy is?
Novus-America
26-02-2007, 21:01
Okay, suppose they do. Then what? I think the whole secession issue was decided in the early 1860's, wasn't it? I believe there was an interlude 'round about then.

And anyway, the Feds have all the really effective weapons. Do you really think Bob from down the street who does a weekend every month can stand up to the 3rd Armored?

:rolleyes:

Well, the Iraqis are doing a good job at it. . .
Farnhamia
26-02-2007, 21:04
Well, the Iraqis are doing a good job at it. . .

Good point, they are. I guess I don't think there's the same kind of mentality over here. People might piss and moan about things the government does but they don't reach for the IED first thing. I could see US citizens putting up with a whole hell of a lot before taking to the streets, so long as American Idol and Survivor were still on in their regular time slots.
Novus-America
26-02-2007, 21:08
Thomas Jefferson did say that people are more inclined to suffer a long train of abuses before doing anything about it.
Congo--Kinshasa
26-02-2007, 21:50
Minnesota will hopefully secede, become an independent republic, and remain neutral.