NationStates Jolt Archive

Suppose America never became capitalistic, and the majority of the population remained moderate, would America be less corrupt, would it be an ideal place to live in?

Discuss.....

there is no such thing as capitolism

That's how they pronounce it at KFC in Poland. ;)

If it never became capitalist in the first place, it would probably be much poorer without the booming economy it has today. However if it slowly became socialist after starting off being capitalist, it probably would be less corrupt because Bush never would have got voted into power.

there is no such thing as capitolism

If it never became capitalist in the first place, it would probably be much poorer without the booming economy it has today. However if it slowly became socialist after starting off being capitalist, it probably would be less corrupt because Bush never would have got voted into power.

Wow, turned into Bush bashing quick. Amazing how that leap was made.

there is no such thing as capitolism

ORLY? Well then what is the system the British used in the industrial revolution that resulted in the mass murder of innocent children or "toughening up child workers for the future" as they called it. What is the system that "justifies" corporate crime and allows fast food to use poison to make their food taste better? What is the system thats bent on making the rich richer and the poor poorer?

I'm no communist, I just don't like the idea of taking both extremes.

Suppose America never became capitalistic, and the majority of the population remained moderate, would America be less corrupt, would it be an ideal place to live in?

Discuss.....

became? America was pretty much founded on the principle of capitalism.

That's how they pronounce it at KFC in Poland. ;)you prolly don't know anything about poland.

ORLY? Well then what is the system the British used in the industrial revolution that resulted in the mass murder of innocent children or "toughening up child workers for the future" as they called it. What is the system that "justifies" corporate crime and allows fast food to use poison to make their food taste better? What is the system thats bent on making the rich richer and the poor poorer?

I'm no communist, I just don't like the idea of taking both extremes.

1. There's still no such thing as capitolism

2. You fail at understanding what capitalism is.

became? America was pretty much founded on the principle of capitalism.

Suppose that for some strange reason in history it ended up being founded on something else.

Wow, turned into Bush bashing quick. Amazing how that leap was made.

What did you expect, it's NSG.

you prolly don't know anything about poland.

About what?

you prolly don't know anything about poland.

For someone to claim they are from there I would say you don't even know that KFC is there. How is that? I also don't claim to know a lot about Poland. However I can easily look on the net and figure out that KFC is still in Poland.

About what?

Was a reference to another thread where this supposed Pole does not know that there are KFC's in Poland. Was a joke carried over.

Suppose that for some strange reason in history it ended up being founded on something else.
Such as? Karl Marx was oddly non-influential in 18th century politics.

Such as? Karl Marx was oddly non-influential in 18th century politics.

So no one back then was creative enough to create an alternate system idea then try it out?

Well America was moderate (at least economically) for the time it was founded so I guess you mean what if America had an absolute monarch?

And it was the wrong century and nation for a workers revolution (maybe we could of had a Spartan utopia again?;))

Well America was moderate (at least economically) for the time it was founded so I guess you mean what if America had an absolute monarch?

And it was the wrong century and nation for a workers revolution (maybe we could of had a Spartan utopia again?;))

An absolute monarch would be Autocratic feudalism, not capitalism. Unless you mean to say, capitalism is moderate.

For someone to claim they are from there I would say you don't even know that KFC is there. How is that? I also don't claim to know a lot about Poland. However I can easily look on the net and figure out that KFC is still in Poland.

Of course there's KFC in Poland...I've seen commercials with five black guys driving one of those bicycles and playing instruments...bst part was when one guy at the cashier said the price...funny stuff

What are we talking about, going back to some kind of feudal system?

So no one back then was creative enough to create an alternate system idea then try it out?

Even if it was invented then, it would be impossible to start a nation on socialism/communism or whatever. Thats one of the central ideas of Marx, that it's a slow process.

Are you suggesting absolute monarchy cannot function without capitalism because Saudi Arabia might want a word with you (well I'm sure there are better examples…)

No i'm saying an absolute monarch cannot function (well, at least) with capitalism.

An absolute monarch would be Autocratic feudalism, not capitalism. Unless you mean to say, capitalism is moderate.

Are you suggesting absolute monarchy cannot function without capitalism because Saudi Arabia might want a word with you (well I'm sure there are better examples…)

ORLY? Well then what is the system the British used in the industrial revolution that resulted in the mass murder of innocent children or "toughening up child workers for the future" as they called it. What is the system that "justifies" corporate crime and allows fast food to use poison to make their food taste better? What is the system thats bent on making the rich richer and the poor poorer?

I'm no communist, I just don't like the idea of taking both extremes.

no, that's called capitalism.

Are you suggesting absolute monarchy cannot function without capitalism because Saudi Arabia might want a word with you (well I'm sure there are better examples…)

Singapore's pretty much a dictatorship, I'd go with that.

Well, if America had always been more mercantilist, like the Federal/statist clusterfuck it is today, I'd probably be living in a shanty and eating my shoes.

Suppose America never became capitalistic, and the majority of the population remained moderate, would America be less corrupt, would it be an ideal place to live in?

Discuss.....

Why not suppose that communism actually worked for the benefit of the people in the Soviet Union? How would that have changed its history?

there is no such thing as capitolism

I believe that we need to develop such a belief system though.

A belief system which dictates that pinecones should be harvested in a "capitol".

Remained more moderate in respect to what? Back then mercantilism was one of the domineering economic theories.

Was a reference to another thread where this supposed Pole does not know that there are KFC's in Poland. Was a joke carried over.

i'd never even heard of subway til i went to new zealand when i was 18, and they're everywhere in britain. well, not where i grew up, but i spent enough time on the mainland and watching tv adverts.

Suppose the world were flat, that masturbation were not fun, that pigs could fly, that circles were squares, that Bob Saget were actually funny, that Hitler loved Jews, that puppies really do drown whenever you troll, that Nailitr isn't nearly half as fucked up as one would think he is at first sight, that Norwegians were really fun people and not miserable sods, that making this post is not a waste of time...

Why bother!? :)

it probably would be less corrupt because Bush never would have got voted into power.

Yes because the Soviet Politburo was never corrupt:rolleyes:

Let's suppose you were entertaining...
Let's suppose I gave a shit about freaks like you...

Oh wait, I don't. :)

Why bother!? :)

Let's suppose you were entertaining...

Don't, and aren't. Two for two.
Sure. I'm off to sleep now. Kisses. :)

I don't.

Don't, and aren't. Two for two.

ORLY? Well then what is the system the British used in the industrial revolution that resulted in the mass murder of innocent children or "toughening up child workers for the future" as they called it. What is the system that "justifies" corporate crime and allows fast food to use poison to make their food taste better? What is the system thats bent on making the rich richer and the poor poorer?

I'm no communist, I just don't like the idea of taking both extremes.


Couldn't have said that better myself.... props to you!

Are capitolists people who believe in buildings in which a legislature meets?

Suppose America never became capitalistic, and the majority of the population remained moderate, would America be less corrupt, would it be an ideal place to live in?

Discuss.....


America is corrupt?

Well, for a start several tens of thousands of innocent iraqi civilians would still be alive.

Suppose America was never capitolist

A non-capitolist US? That would be pretty cool actually. The US without a place for it's legislature to meet would likely have been freer.

Suppose America never became capitalistic,

Never become? You've got it backwards. The US has gone from capitalistic to mercantilistic-corporatistic. A better question would be what have happened if the US had remained capitalistic...

and the majority of the population remained moderate,

Errrr... they are.

would America be less corrupt,

Less? (http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0781359.html)

would it be an ideal place to live in?

If it hadn't been capitolistic, it would have.
If it had remained capitalistic it would have.

Discuss.....

You want people to discuss this mish-mash of BS, misspelling, and incorrect information? How about ya go concentrate on learning something in school.

Well, for a start several tens of thousands of innocent iraqi civilians would still be alive.

Unless they were murdered by Hussein.

Unless they were murdered by Hussein.

Good point, but Hussein wouldn't be in power in the first place because America ensured that he became the Iraqi leader. The "home of the brave and the land of the free" then went on to provide military equipment and training for Saddams large army that he then used against innocent Kurds in the north of the country. God Bless America

Good point, but Hussein wouldn't be in power in the first place because America ensured that he became the Iraqi leader. The "home of the brave and the land of the free" then went on to provide military equipment and training for Saddams large army that he then used against innocent Kurds in the north of the country. God Bless America

No. God Bless Henry Kissinger.....

My pet theory is that when he was advising whichever president (too lazy to look it up now) put Hussein in power, he really was asking for a ham sandwich, extra pickles, and hold the mayo, but what came out sounded suspiciously like "Put Hussein in power, I think we have a good chance with him.".......Aaaaah. Fun with accents!

What is capitolism?

An economic system that uses buildings housing the center of government as currency? Sounds dodgy to me.

"How much is that sandwich?"

"Two Olympias and a Tallahassee."

"Hm. I just got back from Canada. Do you take Winnipegs?"

"Sorry. No foreign currency."

Suppose America never became capitalistic, and the majority of the population remained moderate, would America be less corrupt, would it be an ideal place to live in?

Discuss.....

In what world is "moderate" a middle ground of capitalism? As if socialism didn't have corruption :rolleyes:

i'd never even heard of subway til i went to new zealand when i was 18, and they're everywhere in britain. well, not where i grew up, but i spent enough time on the mainland and watching tv adverts.

The whole point to a few of us giving him a hard time is how can you be so oblivious to the surroundings that you live in? Apparently the person that said there was no KFC in Warsaw lives in Warsaw. I can understand your particular situation. If you do not have them where you live then that is understandable. However to live in a city that has over 30 of the said restaurants I find it difficult to understand how one could miss them.

However to live in a city that has over 30 of the said restaurants I find it difficult to understand how one could miss them.

Hey, there's 12 Quizno's Subs locations in the Greater Toronto Area (I just looked that up), but I couldn't begin to tell you where any of them are...

*snip*
For some reason I always thought you were some sort of social democrat - then I read your profile. I like you now. :D

For some reason I always thought you were some sort of social democrat

:eek: :confused:

I've been pretty much a libertarian minarchist cap for most of the time I've been here, leaning more and more anti-corporatist, but always leavened with a realist streak.

- then I read your profile. I like you now. :D

:) What exactly made you change your mind? (For some reason people have trouble getting a grip on me politically - not just you.)

Good point, but Hussein wouldn't be in power in the first place because America ensured that he became the Iraqi leader. The "home of the brave and the land of the free" then went on to provide military equipment and training for Saddams large army that he then used against innocent Kurds in the north of the country. God Bless America

Actually Saddam and Al-Bakr ensured that Saddam would be the Iraqi President, not the United States, especially knowing which direction he leaned during the first several years of his Presidency.

:eek: :confused:

I've been pretty much a libertarian minarchist cap for most of the time I've been here, leaning more and more anti-corporatist, but always leavened with a realist streak.
Bah, I've seen you agree a lot with Nervun and this other guy from Japan, both of whom are centrists or something of the sort, so I thought you tagged along with them. :)

:) What exactly made you change your mind? (For some reason people have trouble getting a grip on me politically - not just you.)
I was being facetious - you always make interesting posts. Nice to know you share my twisted ideology though. :D

If it never became capitalist in the first place, it would probably be much poorer without the booming economy it has today. However if it slowly became socialist after starting off being capitalist, it probably would be less corrupt because Bush never would have got voted into power.

As much as I dislike Bush, your argument is illogical.

I think Godwin's Law should be updated to include Bush as well as Hitler. For those of you who are not familiar with it, Godwin's Law states:

"As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."

This is clearly an argumentum ad populum (among other fallacies) and as such, invalidates the arguments at hand.

Bah, I've seen you agree a lot with Nervun and this other guy from Japan, both of whom are centrists or something of the sort, so I thought you tagged along with them. :)

With NERVUN, on some things yes (usually Japanese cultural observations), on some things no (politics).

And who else were you thinking of from Japan - there was Cat Eye, but he was ages ago, and Ceia, but he's more of a right-winger - them two me, an NERVUN are all that come to mind in the last couple years (Silly Mountain Walks had a good grasp of the place, but is looong gone.)

I was being facetious - you always make interesting posts. Nice to know you share my twisted ideology though. :D

Cool! I try. Thanks for noticing. :D

As much as I dislike Bush, your argument is illogical.

I think Godwin's Law should be updated to include Bush as well as Hitler.

Another who dislike Bushy Jr. but who thinks that Bush is the new Godwined Hitler...

With NERVUN, on some things yes (usually Japanese cultural observations), on some things no (politics).

And who else were you thinking of from Japan - there was Cat Eye, but he was ages ago, and Ceia, but he's more of a right-winger - them two me, an NERVUN are all that come to mind in the last couple years (Silly Mountain Walks had a good grasp of the place, but is looong gone.)
No, it's none of them. But I can't recall the person's nick right now. It'll probably come back to me when I least need it. :p

If America wasn't capitalist, none of us would have personal computers.

Dis fred is da sukketh! LMAO XDXDXDXDXDDXDEGGSDEE!!!!!!!1111111111111111oneoenoen

Moderate people are willing to take the time to stop and think about the reasonable answer. People on the wings just seem to care about fufilling their agendas.

Where as moderates are willing to compromise and make progress. The wingers will butt heads until they collapse, or create a civil war and get drunk afterwards switching roles completely.

Moderate people are willing to take the time to stop and think about the reasonable answer. People on the wings just seem to care about fufilling their agendas.

Where as moderates are willing to compromise and make progress. The wingers will butt heads until they collapse, or create a civil war and get drunk afterwards switching roles completely.

Which is why I added the question about America remaining moderate. Your absolutely correct about the wingers caring only about their agendas and moderates actually thinking things through reasonably.

If it never became capitalist in the first place, it would probably be much poorer without the booming economy it has today. However if it slowly became socialist after starting off being capitalist, it probably would be less corrupt because Bush never would have got voted into power.

lol tru that. but in general, democratic socialism is less corrupt than capitalism (no matter who's governing, really.)

Moderate people are willing to take the time to stop and think about the reasonable answer. People on the wings just seem to care about fufilling their agendas.

Where as moderates are willing to compromise and make progress. The wingers will butt heads until they collapse, or create a civil war and get drunk afterwards switching roles completely.

lol only an american could truly appreciate what you just said.

If America wasn't capitalist, none of us would have personal computers.

And Europe would probably be speaking German.

Which is why I added the question about America remaining moderate. Your absolutely correct about the wingers caring only about their agendas and moderates actually thinking things through reasonably.
Well, that’s very one-dimensional. The ‘left’ and ‘right’ classifications only really help out in defining someone’s economic attitude, and any detailed political discussion highlights the massive differences within the ‘wingers’.

I'd argue that it's not your 'moderatism', but your ability to think beyond outdated party lines and 'wings' that shows one's ability to think about and debate politics reasonably.

As much as I dislike Bush, your argument is illogical.

I think Godwin's Law should be updated to include Bush as well as Hitler. For those of you who are not familiar with it, Godwin's Law states:

"As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."

This is clearly an argumentum ad populum (among other fallacies) and as such, invalidates the arguments at hand.

Maybe...though as much as Bush has fucked up I don't think he'll be going down in history with even remotely the reputation (even as a fuck up). Provided nothing crazier happens (the man's still got 23 months left) he'll be forgotten by practically everyone except people in the fields of history and political science.

Oh, but I actually agree in terms of Bush being super corrupt. Democratic socialism by nature tends to be less corrupt, and considering Bush is in big business himself DIRECTLY, he's automatically more corrupt than say, Bill Clinton (who I don't think was anymore corrupt than the average politician, but let's just say) because Bill Clinton had relatively few assets to worry about prior to the Presidency. Even now, his money mostly comes from speaking engagements and book deals, not oil companies and baseball teams.

And Europe would probably be speaking German.

Lame argument.

EDIT: Oh, and I'd like to speak German. But I'm not in Europe, nor its' hypothetical bizarro-world counterpart :(

And Europe would probably be speaking German.
There’s always one.... :)

*braces self for detailed discussion of hypothetical WW2 situations*

Suppose Ellen was never a lesbian. What then? Would she be a successful comedienne/talk show hostess? Would Anne Heche have any sort of career left? Far more interesting if you ask me.

And Europe would probably be speaking German.

and Kuwait would be speaking Iraqy. Thats right, I said Iraqy.

Lame argument.

EDIT: Oh, and I'd like to speak German. But I'm not in Europe, nor its' hypothetical bizarro-world counterpart :(

No capitalism means no Carnegie, no Rockafeller, no Ford. No Amrrican industry means no D-Day or anything else. You can debate what that would mean on your own.

And Europe would probably be speaking German.

I think you mean Russian.

I think you mean Russian.

I think the Russians would have caved pretty badly without the US. Our monetary and equipment aid was vital to their war effort, and without it they would have likely not been able to defeat the Germans, let alone the Japanese. At best it would've been a stalemate between Nazi Western Europe and Soviet Eastern Europe.

Now that would be an interesting alternative history...

I think the Russians would have caved pretty badly without the US. Our monetary and equipment aid was vital to their war effort, and without it they would have likely not been able to defeat the Germans, let alone the Japanese. At best it would've been a stalemate between Nazi Western Europe and Soviet Eastern Europe.

Now that would be an interesting alternative history...

You've got it all wrong you imbecile.

I think your really underestimating the French resistance. Within a few years of operation Sea Lion, those wine drinking oil painters would have defeated the Luft-Waffa. Then Italy and Spain would team up and conquer Africa, rendering Rommel's tanks confused and everybody would eventually live in Argentina with monkeys that scream and go "ou ou ou".

Which is why I added the question about America remaining moderate. Your absolutely correct about the wingers caring only about their agendas and moderates actually thinking things through reasonably.
Biased stupidity. True extremists have put far more careful thought into their systems than most "moderates".

lol tru that. but in general, democratic socialism is less corrupt than capitalism (no matter who's governing, really.)
How about you prove that, eh?

You've got it all wrong you imbecile.

I think your really underestimating the French resistance. Within a few years of operation Sea Lion, those wine drinking oil painters would have defeated the Luft-Waffa. Then Italy and Spain would team up and conquer Africa, rendering Rommel's tanks confused and everybody would eventually live in Argentina with monkeys that scream and go "ou ou ou".

You sir, win the thread.

But watch out for cloned Hitlers from Brazil.

As Winston Churchill put it, "Democracy is the worst form of goverment, except for all the other ones we have tried"