NationStates Jolt Archive

I made a thread like this a couple years ago, and have noticed some posters who have had dramatic changes in political views, including myself, so I decided to ask this question again.

As for me...

I started off as an apolitical Democrat (when all I knew about politics was George Bush v. Al Gore)

Next, I became a die-hard liberal.

Then, I got swept into the "libertarian trend" and became a big-l Libertarian.

Realizing I didn't agree with many of the libertarians' economic views, I shifted again to a liberal (US definition), but still with a distinct dislike for several leftist positions such as affirmative action and the socialistic sympathies of several lefties.

So, I'm a left-leaning liberal who hates communism, socialism, and neoconservatism.

You?

I've become more and more apathetic on social issues, preferring to focus my attention on advancing free-market and free-trade capitalism in economic issues. That's something I'm knowledgeable about and like to discuss, unlike social issues which I see as increasingly irrelevant.

The only social issue I care about is scientific freedom, which I strongly support and want to expand as much as possible.

I started off as a slightly right-leaning centrist.

Then I turned into a slightly left-leaning centrist.

Now I'm a super-left leaning liberal.

I used to be the king, the king of old Broadway.

I am way more socially liberal than I used to be. Economically, I'm currently a centrist, but I have no idea what I used to be. I think I might have been more right wing, but I'm not sure.

I definitely have found myself moving closer towards the centre from my right-of-centre political stance. Part of that has to do from interacting on here, although it mostly has to do with observing politcs in the real world.

A few years ago, I was much more libertarian and open to the idea of breaking down borders and embracing free-market principles. I've largely become dissillusioned of such things. Maintaining our ability to use our democratic systems to maintain our economic sovereignty is more important to me than it was when I started posting on general.

I'm a moderate bit more conservative than I used to be, and I've moved slightly to the right economically, though not much.

On certain issues I'm far more conservative and right wing than I was even a few months ago. These would be the issues that are traditionally associated with the term "far-right". ;)

So my political compass authoritarian score is barely above centrist, and my economic score is a tad to the left. Moderate nationalism! :)

In Soviet Russia if you change politics, politics shoot you.

I started out as a communist and now I am a left leaning centrist favouring a free market. I think my political compass scores says much. Two years ago I used to get -10 on the economic scale. Last time I did it two weeks ago I got like -2. In social issues I've always been very liberal.

In Soviet Russia if you change politics, politics shoot you.

In Soviet Russia, if you change politics, politics "change" you.

Always been a social liberal. Economically I've been almost everything.

These days I tend towards one-nation conservatism as applied to the world :D

I don;t have a very optimistic view of human nature to be honest. Which is why I don;t think I'll ever truly support a full free-market system (I had brief dabbling but realised I wasn't a big enough bastard) but social liberty remains a core value.

I'm kinda mistrustful of the concept of 'progress' as well. Scientific knowledge is good (as with all truths and yes I am religious so nyah) but it always saddens me that scientific advances keep being turned into new ways to kill other people.

I started out as a right-wing Republican, then as I realized that the way to better individual behavior is not through law but through freedom, I slowly began to drift further and further away from all forms of interventionism to become an anarcho-capitalist.

I never liked democracy, though.

They didn't. I was always anarchist, though anarchy meaning not total disorder, but absolute minimization of governmental intervention. Implementation preferences changed, the ideal didn't: federal laws fit on a single page, business opportunities (including corporate) totally open, city-states with different rules let people choose their society.

Mostly they've shifted leftwards; not that they were ever right-wing. The largest changes have been in foreign policy, where I've shifted from a centrist to a strong anti-imperialist to an explicitly socialist, class-oriented internationalism that's highly skeptical of anti-imperialist nationalism, especially when combined with religion.

Socially is probably where I've shifted least; I have never been anything but a strong social liberal.

unlike social issues which I see as increasingly irrelevant.

Why?

I went from being a "normal" conservative to being my own brand of conservative-libertarian. I'm totally in favor of free trade and capitalism, but I don't like the increasingly isolationist-noninterventionalist stance of modern libertarianism. As far as abortion and gay marriage goes, I think that the people should decide, not the courts. I also favor removing much of the power of the federal government and pushing back down to the states where it belongs. Basically read the writings of the Founding Fathers and you'll understand my beliefs.;)

I went from being an anarcho-communist to being a very socially liberal Liberal to being a very socially liberal Moderate/Libertarian who despises the voodoo economics of both the far left and the far right, and tends to believe in Keynesian economic models.

I also have begun to see the extreme genius of the Founding Fathers in their balance between state and federal power, and their slow, but reliable, political system.

I went from a small c conservative to a quite left socialist....now I've mellowed to small s socialist/liberal, still left but moderate....

The first Presidential election I remember I wore an "I like Ike" button. It must have driven my "Yellow dog Democrat" father crazy but he never said a thing. I was a right wing consertative; in fact, I used to be right out there with Rush.

On social issues I have move much closer to the center and the compass shows I'm close to a Libertarian but not quite there yet. In economics, I'm still very consertative. I guess I can now classify myself as a right leaning Libertarian.

I'm economically right wing; probably considerably more so now than I was in my younger days.
I'm socially left wing, also probably more so now than I was in my younger days.

I think there are two real reasons for this. Firstly, I have become gradually less materialistic and introverted in my world view, and as a result my disapproval of allowing profit-driven corporate ventures a free reign over services and resources has been growing proportionally to my willingness to step outside of my own little bubble and engage with people.

Secondly, I'm British, and as such have just lived through a decade of New Labour which has seen the exact opposite drift met with complete failure. :p

Wings, wings everywhere, no fuselages to be seen. And what's the purpose, the wing or the payload?


I'd rather be a lifting body, then.

Started off as a die hard Tory then switched to Labour then Lib dem, now I realise that all Polticians are scummy pond life who will run their own grand mothers into the ground for a few extra votes and this is on a good day.

Started off as a die hard Tory then switched to Labour then Lib dem, now I realise that all Polticians are scummy pond life who will run their own grand mothers into the ground for a few extra votes and this is on a good day. Worse than their grandmothers. Their own motherlands!

I've become more and more apathetic on social issues, preferring to focus my attention on advancing free-market and free-trade capitalism in economic issues. That's something I'm knowledgeable about and like to discuss, unlike social issues which I see as increasingly irrelevant.

The only social issue I care about is scientific freedom, which I strongly support and want to expand as much as possible.

A downward thumb to you, sir!

Any shift in my politics has always been from the economic side, really. Social issues have always mattered a lot to me, to the point where I'm a complete social libertarian. Without our social freedoms, the economy means jack shit. Everyone knows money can't buy happiness.

That said, economically speaking I'm pretty close to Vetalia, though I tend to lean a bit more to the left than he does.

I've noticed a few changes in my beliefs from when I got here a couple years ago. Like now I suddenly support gay marriage. And abortion in about all cases. That I now support the legalization of prostitution and marijuana.

Little things like this. In which I blame the people on NS for. :)

I was a libertarian when I was younger , and I originally registered as an independent., but I've become increasingly leftist over the years, both through my education and the behavior of Republicans. I am now generally a rank-and-file Democrat on social issues, but a staunch socialist on economic issues.

I didn't get into politics until I was 11, but I was an uber-conservative.

By 13, I was more centrist, eventually becoming a Libertarian.

Now I'm a 15 year old atheist Libertarian who spams up NSG in her free time. :p

You were uber conservative by 11? I never even thought about politics at the age

Back when I was a little kid in middle school I was quite enamored of anarchism.

Through high school I veered toward socialism, and now as I'm about to finish college I only advocate pragmatic and sensible administration, on the model of the wildly successful social democracies of northern Europe.

I've consistently been in favor of separating church and state, to as high a degree as possible, and have over time become more and more interested in preserving our rights under the second amendment.

You were uber conservative by 11? I never even thought about politics at the age

One can't both seriously think about politics and be 'uber conservative.' There is no contradiction in his statement.

One can't both seriously think about politics and be 'uber conservative.' There is no contradiction in his statement.

Darknovae is most definitely female.

Also, that reminds me: I myself made a short leap into being a communist, back when my family hit rock bottom and we had to live with my Aunt Linda for a year. Of course by third world standards it would still have been paradise, but by my first world-acclimated self it was hell. I shared the laundry room as a bedroom with my little brother. My parents had to sleep on the floor in the living room on an inflated mattress, at least till my dad got a job again and moved to St. Louis for a few months. Seven people, three dogs, one cat, two rats, in a house made for at maximum three people and one pet. You can see why I became a communist during that period.

I started off as a sort of moderate conservative, because that was how I felt as a kid growing up in lily-white, right-wing, Christian suburbia. I thought abortion was wrong, unions were evil, and poor people should get jobs. By fifteen, I was a through-and-through centrist, and by sixteen I was a socialist. I'm now seventeen, a radical left-winger, determined pacifist, feminist, and mild environmentalist. I don't plan on ever going back to the dark side of neo-conservatism.

My views haven't really fit into any clear-cut category at any time, and regarding a fair share of issues (though not quite as many as they used to be) I still don't have any particularly strong conviction. I'll detail some key points, though.

I have become rather libertarian; so I have long been in other regards, but I have got increasingly so in the economic sense. I have also over time formed a view on the ideal way of governing and the structuring of society; basically, a highly meritocratic one.

I have got increasingly realistic (most'd say fairly cynic) the last couple of years (most radically between about 6 to 2 years ago), much less naive than I used to be. And quite a misanthrope.

It's been a gradual dift for me; NSG hasn't had that much of an impact, apart from through showing a wider spectra of views and the common reasoning, or often lack thereof, in support of them.

i've become radically more and more liberal. when i was 14/15 and i was just becoming interested in politics i could probably have been described as a stalinist, although i wouldn't have known that at the time. i think it was a funtion of taking on my dads rather socialist politics coupled with my mother's moralistic authoritarian attitude and my grandfather's xenophobia. once i recognised how harmful my mother's and her father's attitudes were i quickly rejected them, although i didn't settle on libertarian socialist ideas til i was 18 or 19. since then i've only really refined my ideas of economic organisation and added new things to be liberal about once i've learned about them.

Hmm. I started off as a fascist of sorts (liberal fascism- freedom for the deserving). Then I droped this in favour of centrism when I came to realise there was not consistently reliable way to adjudicate who was and was not deserving (intelligent) without the system becoming perverted by nepotism and cronyism.

My centrism was right leaning economically, and weakly left socially. Taking all of the practical and best components from various ideaologies and incorporating them into a mediocre whole. This is when I arrived on NS.

Over time, whilst studying economic at uni, my economics became harder and harder right until I was no longer justifiably a 'centrist' anymore (despite the fact that I did, and still do lean left socially). At this point I would have been best described a 'classsic liberal' or perhaps a 'libertarian'.

Then I started playing with anarcho-capitalism. Just as a thought experiment to begin with. Then increasingly seriously as I realised the true workability of such a system. With time, I was on the very brink of anarchism, with only social welfare holding me back (I imagined that a world without social welfare would be miserable and unfair indeed). In this transitionary period I would have been best described as a 'minarchist', who maintained all functions of government should be privatised entirely (even the judiciary), and the government should only exist to tip the scales back even by providing welfare for those in need (via subsidies, mainly).

Then, my heart hardened, as I became more cynical and jaded at this world, and decided that welfare was a wonderful thing of the past, and the negatives of a world without it would just have to be dealt with along with all of the other miserable features of this reality. It was then that I became an unenthusiastic and reluctant market anarchist.

Then, Quite recently, I read a post from Neu Leonstein on philanthro-capitalism. I was intrigued, and did as much reading as I could. It was then that I realised that social welfare was entirely practicable in an anarcho-capitalist system. I then became an unabashed Anarcho-capitalist.


And thats where I am now.

I made a thread like this a couple years ago, and have noticed some posters who have had dramatic changes in political views, including myself, so I decided to ask this question again.

As for me...

I started off as an apolitical Democrat (when all I knew about politics was George Bush v. Al Gore)

Next, I became a die-hard liberal.

Then, I got swept into the "libertarian trend" and became a big-l Libertarian.

Realizing I didn't agree with many of the libertarians' economic views, I shifted again to a liberal (US definition), but still with a distinct dislike for several leftist positions such as affirmative action and the socialistic sympathies of several lefties.

So, I'm a left-leaning liberal who hates communism, socialism, and neoconservatism.

You?

I disliked Bush. Now I hate Bush.

Some of these expressions have been so evacuated of content that it becomes hard to use them, but here it goes

Depolitized -> Immature leftie -> Conservative -> Nationalist -> Classic Liberal -> Neo-Liberal -> Minarchist -> Anarcho-Syndicalist

The final branch has stayed with me for the last 5 years, and no change is predictable for the next decades :)

I disliked Bush. Now I hate Bush.

I think that's an opinion shared by many.

I've gone farther left economically, and become more socially libertarian.

I grew up in a conservative family, always being a very strong conservative. Then, as I got more into politics, I slowly became more and more socially liberal, and went from a moderate capitalist to a radical one. Then I went through a 3 month phase of minarchism vs anarcho-capitalism, before finally becoming an anarcho-capitalist.

Depolitized -> Immature leftie -> Conservative -> Nationalist -> Classic Liberal -> Neo-Liberal -> Minarchist -> Anarcho-Syndicalist

That's a weird progression (not that there's anything wrong with that.)

Though I have noticed a tendency among former "immature lefties" to become substantially right-wing later on.

I started as a Communist (in my younger days). I had the hammer and sickle arm patch and everything. Then I turned into a Socialist. Then for a little while I became a Capitalist. Then I turned back into a Socialist, but with moderate view points.

Party wise, I started as an extream liberal (When I knew less about politics) and now I'm not really for either side, however I am more for the Democrats then the Republicans, however I am a big fan of McCaen and if I could vote come next election, I would probaly vote for him.

The older I get the more convoluted my politics get.

I am an unabashed capitalist who has been using marxist rhetoric as of late.

Depolitized -> Immature leftie -> Conservative -> Nationalist -> Classic Liberal -> Neo-Liberal -> Minarchist -> Anarcho-Syndicalist


This is actually very similar to mine:

Conservative -> Liberal -> Stupid Leftie -> Libertarian -> Anarcho-something

My politics have changed a lot, with two caveats:
- when I was younger, I'm not sure how much they were politics, in that I wasn't especially clever and didn't think things through a lot, and how much they were attention-grabbing stances for the hell of it;
- I very strongly doubt I'm done with my changes, and I would anticipate there being changes to come.

That said, I do feel now like I'm surer on a lot of issues than I ever was: rather than completely shifting my position, I've thought them through, and come to realize what my various inate tendencies lead to. So it's more of a "realization" than a "reassessment", if that makes sense.

So I've definitely become a lot more socially liberal; there's also been a less pronounced rightwards shift in my economic views (especially on free trade), but at the same time a growing distaste for small government conservatism. To sum up, in Political Compass terms:
then-->now
^
|
|
|
|
|
then

I didn't get into politics until I was 11, but I was an uber-conservative.

By 13, I was more centrist, eventually becoming a Libertarian.

Now I'm a 15 year old atheist Libertarian who spams up NSG in her free time. :p

That, only by 18 I drifted into Maoist-like communism, only as I hadn't read any Mao, it can't really be called Maoism.

Since then I've drifted more into anarcho-communism, my revolutionary spirit has mellowed somewhat, but I still see a heirarchy-free, communist society a goal to work towards.

They haven't changed.

I have gotten a bit more cynical and disillusioned, but my basic political views haven't changed.

I've gone farther left economically, and become more socially libertarian.

Was that before or after I debated anarchism with you? Jumpin' Jehosephats...

Okay, that was an excuse to say Jumpin' Jehosephats. You caught me.

I went from a moderate to a Hard-Core Republican.

Undoubtedly due to my education in a private Catholic school, I was initially something of a Neocon. This continued on until the last year of my home schooling where I was introduced to the basics of a Classical Liberalism and first learned of the names of Locke and Smith. I slowly became more liberal in social issues until I became a libertarian, which I can still say to be for simplicity's sake. However, my personal political awakening came last fall with a chance encounter.

I was on my way to the bookstore for the semester's books when I overheard a political discussion by two other passengers, one of whom was an Englishman. I wormed my way into the conversation, hoping to provide an "educated" (as I thought myself to be then) American's PoV. The English guy... I wish I got his e-mail address, cause he caused me to look at politics in a whole new fashion. As a result, I no longer view the extremist views of the US Libertarian Party in such a favorable light. I now happily call myself a Federalist.

I went from being a Capitalist as young, to a Imperialist as I grew older, however, I soon migrated from those sick ways and became a revolutionary, and eventually a Socialist. But that wasn't enough for me. I had to take things to the extreme and Now im a hardcore Communist. And im stuck in this spot.

I used to be the king, the king of old Broadway.

it's good to be the king

I'm left-center on social issues, but very free market on economic issues. I also am conservative on foreign policy.

I can't really be described as anything.

I can't be described as a conservative because of my stance on social issues. I guess if it weren't for my stance on foreign policy issues, I would be a libertarian.

The only change has been in my leftard move on social issues. All other beliefs have remained relatively the same.

I think that's an opinion shared by many.

No shit, Sherlock.

in the beginning i used to be marxist or something along those lines. but now i don't really have one ideology i follow. it also depends on the term you're looking at, i'm pretty pragmatic when it comes to short term changes without a clear underlying ideology, but in the long term i'm more of an anarcho-communist (although i'd like to learn a little bit more about it).

Was that before or after I debated anarchism with you? Yes, you inadvertently caused my views to become more extreme. ;)

Jumpin' Jehosephats...

Okay, that was an excuse to say Jumpin' Jehosephats. You caught me.Jumpin' Jehosephats!
You're right, that is fun.

I went from 8.97 on the Social Libertarian/Authoritarian scale to -4 point something. That ought to tell you something. ;)

it's good to be the king

*gives you a cookie for the "History of the World" reference* ;)

I went from 8.97 on the Social Libertarian/Authoritarian scale to -4 point something. That ought to tell you something. ;)

I just re-took the political compass test, I went from a .21 to a -2.33.

I just re-took the political compass test, I went from a .21 to a -2.33.

*looks at your sig*

You may be one of the most centrist people I've ever met. :)

*gives you a cookie*

"If you're not a socialist at 21 you have no heart. If you're not a conservative at 40 you have no brain."

Sorry if I haven't got the quote exactly right. I certainly have gotten a lot more conservative over the years - but that's the real, old time conservative. Small government, minimal governmment intrusion into people's lives, the basic assumption that the citizenry is smart enough to make their own choices about things.
Government is necessary, but it's a necessary evil. Just enough to give everybody a chance, and ensure the rights enshrined in the constitution - no more is needed, or wanted.

I used to think that I was getting more apathetic, but it turned out I was just getting more willing to let people get on with what they were doing, more 'laissez faire', in the literal sense.

My economic views reflect on this. I pretty much just think, 'meh, let the economists deal with it'. I'm happy to be taxed as much as my democratic government sees is reasonable (after all, what they provide is pretty much priceless). But it angers me when the government allows people to remain in poverty.

You?
First I didn't care about politics. (then my friend introduced me to politics)
I though only along party lines. (then my friend ran for office.)
now I listen to what the candidates say and vote according to my thoughts and beliefs. (then i found NSG.)

now I'm thinking along party lines again (But not voting along them.)

*gives you a cookie for the "History of the World" reference* ;)

It's also a line that Brooks worked into the stage production of "The Producers." Of course he originally used it in the already referenced classic.

When I first became politically active, I was conservative--I even listened to Limbaugh in the early days of his show, and was somewhat enamored of him. The longer I listened, the more I realized just how full of shit he was, how everything wrong in the world was because of liberalism, according to him.

My trip leftward started when I started college and discovered just how much shit I'd thought I knew was flat out, empirically, provably wrong. Zoology and Microbiology classes were particularly illuminating.

The first time I voted for President, I voted for Harry Browne (1996). That year, I also voted for a moderate Republican in the open Senate primary, but when she didn't make the cut, I voted for the Democrat (labeled as too liberal by the Republicans--it was Mary Landrieu :rolleyes: ). Three years ago, when I lived in San Francisco, I voted for the Green Party candidate for Mayor. I guess you can call me a full-fledged hippie now. ;)

Since there really isn't a hippie movement where I live now, I tend to stick with the Democrats who are more progressive than most locally. Statewide I vote for the lesser of two evils, which meant I voted for Bill Nelson for Senate, then washed vigorously afterward.

But I'm not strictly partisan. If Charlie Crist keeps up what he's done so far as Governor, I could see voting for him when he runs for re-election. He's done good stuff so far.

I have become more apathetic as of lately. I used to be democrat, then moderate, then extremly liberal, then moderate again, then wanting anarchy, then liberal again, then moderate, and now apathetic.

I went from conservative to liberal to libertarian, and finally ended up at "I should have final and unquestioned say over any political decision I deem important."

Wild swinging. From very conservative to very liberal. Then realized labeling myself one of these terms is inappropriate as I don't believe in the cookie-cutter beliefs these terms impose, even on issues on the same realm.

I have always been and always will be a monarchist at heart. I detest fascism, I detest communism and I have always had a hatred toward democracy and anything egalitarian. In my younger years I thought little of economics, but was always pro-market. A year or so ago I was a Bismarckian style monarchist, who believed in the welfare-warfare Monarchy espoused by the great statesman. I had some Nietzschean/Machiavellian influences as well.

Then I read Hans-Hermann Hoppe's Democracy the God that Failed - that utterly destroyed any faith I had left in democracies, especially the so-called abortion known as "social democracy". This is when I moved on to minarchist monarchism, because I was not sufficiently convinced anarcho-capitalism was tenable and could accomplish what a politico-economic system ought to accomplish (based on my conceptions at the time).

Afterwards came Ayn Rand. Her works utterly destroyed the last threads of statism and groupthinking left in me, which were never much to begin with. This is when I shifted to fullblown anarcho-capitalism, which I now unreservedly support. She thrashed the foundations of my prior moral thinking, and for that I will always be in debt to her.

Currently I am lapsing into moral/epistemological agnosticism... my belief in anarcho-capitalism is unwavering, but I've become apathetic, every day metamorphosing closer to something characterized by utter indifference.

I've become more and more apathetic on social issues, preferring to focus my attention on advancing free-market and free-trade capitalism in economic issues. That's something I'm knowledgeable about and like to discuss, unlike social issues which I see as increasingly irrelevant.
Same with me.

This is actually very similar to mine:

Conservative -> Liberal -> Stupid Leftie -> Libertarian -> Anarcho-something
I'd love to find out what exactly you are one day.

The older I get the more convoluted my politics get.

I am an unabashed capitalist who has been using marxist rhetoric as of late.
Similar to Rothbard and Hoppe, then.

I'm more pragmatic, than anything. Ideology sucks. Moderation in all things, I say.
Some poison with your food or medicine then? Wouldn't want it to be too healthy. ;)

I'm more pragmatic, than anything. Ideology sucks. Moderation in all things, I say.

Radical Marxist, although I have changed slightly on authoritarianism.

Some poison with your food or medicine then? Wouldn't want it to be too healthy. ;)

LOL :D

I'd love to find out what exactly you are one day.

Maybe someone will invent it for me someday.

Maybe someone will invent it for me someday.
Or perhaps you'll just invent it yourself. :)

My views on various issues change from day to day, usually depending on whatever is pissing me off at the moment.

Overall, though, my political views really haven't changed in years...as they exist soley to confuse the fuck out of Europeans. :p

I went from a g@y hating conservative (a year or so ago), to a democrat, to a liberal, to a Democratic Socialist.

One thing hasn't changed about my political view. I started out, when I first heard of the terms "left" and "right" (or "conservative" and "liberal"), and saw by the context what their definitions were ("the enemy" for both), I despised that aspect of politics. To this day I continue to go against the grain, despite perhaps my better judgement. I refuse to take part in those false dichotomies. Fuck 'em. If someone can't describe themselves or their position without relying on those idiot-words, their view is not worth the time it will take me to listen to their hateful, ignorant ranting.
So when someone asks for your political views, you are going to go into a long winded explanation? The term Liberal/Conservative exists so people can convey their views (or the views most common with that party) in one word.

One thing hasn't changed about my political view. I started out, when I first heard of the terms "left" and "right" (or "conservative" and "liberal"), and saw by the context what their definitions were ("the enemy" for both), I despised that aspect of politics. To this day I continue to go against the grain, despite perhaps my better judgement. I refuse to take part in those false dichotomies. Fuck 'em. If someone can't describe themselves or their position without relying on those idiot-words, their view is not worth the time it will take me to listen to their hateful, ignorant ranting.

I originally thought the parliamentary process was an effective way to make change and supported a social democratic system of governance. Then I wisened up and realised that it was bullshit. I then began associating with Trotskyists, but became dissilusioned with that movement as well and now I consider myself an anarchist.

So when someone asks for your political views, you are going to go into a long winded explanation? The term Liberal/Conservative exists so people can convey their views (or the views most common with that party) in one word.

If someone asks me a specific position on a specific issue, then I might get away with something like "for" or "against." That's as laconic as I will get with my political views. I don't fucking fit into a box. What if I said I was "liberal?" What would you assume about me then? That I'm a Democrat? That I support welfare? That I have a limp wrist, hate America, went to college, dodged the draft, smoke pot, say phrases like "ethnic food" and "African-Americans" a lot? Yeah, you would. Cuz when you describe someone's entire political paradigm with just one word, the result is a mindless, stupid, unthinking stereotype whose main purpose is to divide people into two camps. Two! Yes, two, because that's how many sides there are in high school football. Go Grizzlies, Go Go Go!

Fuck that. If someone wants to know MY political views and can't be bothered to listen to more than... ONE word... then my humble viewpoint is that perhaps this whole "politics" and "thinking" thing is a bit beyond their grasp and they should go do something more appropriate to their vocabulary usage, like karaoke versions of Hellen Keller's greatest songs.

I went from 8.97 on the Social Libertarian/Authoritarian scale to -4 point something. That ought to tell you something. ;)You're slowly moving more leftward on the economic scale, as well. :)

Or perhaps you'll just invent it yourself. :)

I don't have the patience.

mine have always been based on observation. as objective as i've been humanly capable of making it. sadly, too much of what i've observed, that my views are based upon, hasn't really chainged substantialy in ways that might have chainged them.

=^^=
.../\...

I started out as a left-leaning progressive conservative; turned into a right-leaning liberal before I realised that my true calling had me as a hardline socialist (making me as my dad would say, a pinko commie).

I made a thread like this a couple years ago, and have noticed some posters who have had dramatic changes in political views, including myself, so I decided to ask this question again.

As for me...

I started off as an apolitical Democrat (when all I knew about politics was George Bush v. Al Gore)

Next, I became a die-hard liberal.

Then, I got swept into the "libertarian trend" and became a big-l Libertarian.

Realizing I didn't agree with many of the libertarians' economic views, I shifted again to a liberal (US definition), but still with a distinct dislike for several leftist positions such as affirmative action and the socialistic sympathies of several lefties.

So, I'm a left-leaning liberal who hates communism, socialism, and neoconservatism.

You?

I am still economically liberal but I have now become more socially liberal as well (new Labour help put things into perspective).

I've gone from kind of a deep ecologist with social democratic tendencies offset by a fiscally conservative streak to a natural capitalist with some deep ecologist views. So both my social liberalism and my fiscal conservatism have softened, but my ecological views remain quite strong.

I've shifted from an idealist to a pragmatist. Basically, far left to centre, British stylee. Cynicism comes easily to my family.

I don't know if I've so much changed my political stances, as come to understand other people's political stances more effectively.

First diehard anti-communist when young.

Second a radical leftist.

Thirdly, and currently, a moderate left wing supporter, of the New Liberalism ideology.

I went a lot like this:

Apathetic right-leaning Democrat (woo hoo Iraq war!) -> Hitler-admiring fascist -> Stalin-admiring communist -> Get to high school -> Anarcho-communist -> Socialist -> Die-hard liberal -> Mild liberal -> Economic moderate, social strong libertarian -> Still socially libtertarian (about a -7 on the political compass), economic right-wing (anywhere between 0 and 2).

That's where I am right now.
I'm a moderate libertarian.
Barack Obama or Bill Richardson 2008!

I started out as an apoltical moderate progressive. Then, after 9-11, I really got lost in the sea of partisan bickering. For a moment, I was sliding in with the neo-cons, but then I starting reading about the Bush abuses of power. Just before the 2004 presidential primary, I slid into being a progressive democrat. I went Green during the 2004 election, and close after I became a democratic socialist. I started identifiying with the Marxist trend in socialism, but I became quickly disillusioned with that. After that, I slid further and further to the left, until I became what I am now-- A left communist.

I don't have the patience.
Please... You have the patience to deal with some of the most stubborn posters on here, so I am sure over time you'll work out something. :)

I've gone from kind of a deep ecologist with social democratic tendencies offset by a fiscally conservative streak to a natural capitalist with some deep ecologist views. So both my social liberalism and my fiscal conservatism have softened, but my ecological views remain quite strong.
What exactly is a 'natural capitalist'? Sorta like a green libertarian?

Well, I was a Maoist a long, long time ago. Back when most of my classmates were struggling to spell "cat".

Not that I really understood Maoism, but I had the hat and the little red book. :D

I became less and less extreme as I learned about the crimes committed by Mao and others like him, but I remained a pretty radical lefty in economic matters. Part of that also came from other views of mine: namely my absolute hatred of neonazis and that sort of scum, and my anti-americanism which was quite well developed at that time. Ultimately the people who shared those views in Germany were overwhelmingly from radical left backgrounds.

When I moved to Australia I had other things to worry about for a while, and I became more and more cynical. I wore the Mao-hat with a Che Guevara chain around my neck, happily dangling in front of the big "Nike" sign on my shirt, if you know what I mean.

During that time (the time when Mr. Bush decided he was gonna play saviour in Iraq) was also my last great hurrah for my anti-americanism. But I had grown up a bit, and some of the things I heard during the anti-war demonstrations just put me off. There is such a thing as being too anti-american, it turned out.

Then I started uni. And in my first week there, at my first class in "Economics of Social Issues", my economic construct fell. In simple terms our lecturer explained to us the basic differences between command economies and the free market, and explained the information problem. I had never really looked at prices as transmitters of information, and I had never thought about the sheer amount of info needed to run an economy.

As convicted a lefty as I was, there was no way in hell there could ever be a good, state-run economy.

A few more revelations followed, and after a brief stay as your classical social democrat, I became what you might call a pragmatic centrist. In effect, I came to the conclusion that economists already know so much in terms of pure observation, modelling and mathematics that ideology doesn't really have to play much of a role.

I was quite happy with that, but my world kept changing. I started work and watched my tax dollars go away. I worked on group assignments and was punished for my group colleagues' bad performances. After hearing my intentions of voting for Schröder in the German elections, my grandma simply answered with the question: "Do you want to be redistributed?"

I made the connection between my own life, between my goals and my dreams, and the politics I stood for. And so I became a capitalist.

For a while (incidentally, shortly after reading "Atlas Shrugged") I was a quite extreme capitalist. I always had my doubts about the feasibility of anarcho-capitalism, but I was pretty damn close to it.

That since then has calmed down again. There still are a few basic tenets of normality left within me, and I haven't completely lost touch with the real world yet (as I believe anarcho-anythings have). Rather than hoping for utopia in my lifetime, these days I'm happy to oppose any idea of giving government extra power over my life and try and pay as little taxes as possible.

My anti-americanism has largely been left behind. I don't think the US is evil, I don't think the world would be better off if it disappeared. I still think their politics are a gigantic mess and there are many social trends there which I strongly dislike.

The same could be said for Israel. I'm not a supporter of their actions, but I no longer deny their right to exist. I've become a lot more centrist on these issues. I prefer realpolitik over moralistic approaches to these problems now.

Still, on most levels I am far closer to the left than to the right. I never overcame my intense dislike for conservatism, and I don't think I ever will. I would still prefer to vote for a socialist who'll raise my taxes than for a conservative who'll stuff immigrants into concentration camps.

Of course you can have both in the liberal parties around the world (though maybe not in the US or Australia :( ).

I used to be a hard core liberal democrat. Hell, I even borderlined communist for a while. Now, I'm very conservative. Not Bush conservative. Small, let the states and people decide, conservative. Not Klan conservative. Caring, unbigoted Conservative. I can see how Bush won reelection. When your main motto is "anyone but ______", you're going to lose.

You're slowly moving more leftward on the economic scale, as well. :)

I'm starting to prefer pragmatism over ideology. My goal is to move as close to dead-center on the political spectrum as possible.

When I was eight, I was a dirty little commie. I'm serious about this. You know, "If you aren't a communist by the time your (X)...". But as I became more academically minded and discovered Wikipedia and Gutenberg, I started learning about the history of Red regimes and reading the actual historical treatises, and I was rapidly dissillusioned.

Now, four years later, I suppose I am a centrist with lefty leanings, but that's not really the whole story. I hold a few views which, in America, (and, having recieved my political education on NS, I generally think politics in American), are traditionally rightsit, and many that are traditionally leftist. I detest affirmative action and I say an immigrant who has lived in my country for a few years should know the outline of English and consider themself British before Pakistani. If they love their country enough to support it at sports, it seems odd that they should leave it and come here.

But I'll support any gay-rights action which isn't being unfair to straights and is staying away from my essentials, I'm a great believer in gender equality, I'm fully behind freedom of choice in abortion, and I say any religioun you want as long as it doesn't demand ripping out your heart and setting it on fire.

I call this ideology "Boozo-Common-Sensism." I intend to vote Official Monster Raving Loony.

If they love their country enough to support it at sports, it seems odd that they should leave it and come here.
That's a bit unfair. I can still support the German football team without living a parallel existence to the Australian mainstream.

When I first became politically aware in the mid 90s I was an isolationist, fundamentally religious militia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan_militia) supporting, extreme right winger. When I joined the Army I turned very libertarian on both social and economic issues. By the time my tour was up I'd shifted very far left economically, and am now something of a social democrat.

However, a few of my core political beliefs never changed. I have always been and am still very pro-states' rights and pro-gun. As a social democrat I don't want the US to become a social democracy, I want Michigan to become a social democracy. I also shift back and forth about being a separatist, depending on how pissed of the Federal government has made me that day.

Well, I was a Maoist a long, long time ago. Back when most of my classmates were struggling to spell "cat".
Yes, thank God you saw the light. :) Your wisdom comes in handy in debates here. You also have quite a cool way of phrasing and perceiving things.

Then I started uni. And in my first week there, at my first class in "Economics of Social Issues", my economic construct fell. In simple terms our lecturer explained to us the basic differences between command economies and the free market, and explained the information problem. I had never really looked at prices as transmitters of information, and I had never thought about the sheer amount of info needed to run an economy.
Hayek argued this - that command economies suffer from a knowledge deficiency. There are problems with this theory though (not in favour of leftism, however); this thread isn't really the place to discuss it, so I'll run them by you later.

After hearing my intentions of voting for Schröder in the German elections, my grandma simply answered with the question: "Do you want to be redistributed?"
Best thing she could've ever told you. :)

For a while (incidentally, shortly after reading "Atlas Shrugged") I was a quite extreme capitalist. I always had my doubts about the feasibility of anarcho-capitalism, but I was pretty damn close to it.
Read the "Virtue of Selfishness", and you might lean even more rightwards. Not towards anarcho-capitalism, exactly, but Rand has some good ideas in that work.

That since then has calmed down again. There still are a few basic tenets of normality left within me, and I haven't completely lost touch with the real world yet (as I believe anarcho-anythings have).
... :rolleyes:

Still, on most levels I am far closer to the left than to the right. I never overcame my intense dislike for conservatism, and I don't think I ever will. I would still prefer to vote for a socialist who'll raise my taxes than for a conservative who'll stuff immigrants into concentration camps.
I have a better suggestion - how about we give both groups the worst punishment conceivable; make them live under the systems they so clamour for, whilst the rest of us stick with markets.

Hayek argued this - that command economies suffer from a knowledge deficiency. There are problems with this theory though (not in favour of leftism, however); this thread isn't really the place to discuss it, so I'll run them by you later.Indeed. The wikipedia article on the subject analyzes its weaknesses rather nicely.

I have a better suggestion - how about we give both groups the worst punishment conceivable; make them live under the systems they so clamour for, whilst the rest of us stick with markets.It'd be even worse for you - there'd be no socialists to save you from the markets. ;)

I started off as a conservative, but I quickly shifted to libertarianism (little "l," as the Libertarian party in the US is a joke really, mostly whackjobs only interested in drug legalisation and abolishing the IRS).

Difficult to state with any certainty. It should be patently obvious that I'm right wing to my heart, however, I remain undecided upon the merits of democracy, and the extent to which civil liberties should be compromised in the name of security.

That's a bit unfair. I can still support the German football team without living a parallel existence to the Australian mainstream.

Good point. I suppose what I mean is that you can keep your customs, you can speak your language at home, you can wear your clothing, but when push comes to shove, you're a Briton now, and you have to accept that.

It'd be even worse for you - there'd be no socialists to save you from the markets. ;)
Bah, we don't need no saving. :p

Bah, we don't need no saving. :p

Seriously, why do you think that most very wealthy individuals argue for market discipline for the poor, and (more subtlely) state protection for the rich? They pretend to laud markets, but their fundamentally unwilling to subject themselves to the same amount of "market discipline" and individual responsiblity as they are willing to subject to others.

Beyond that, I laud you for sincerely being willing to try out your beliefs first hand.

Then again, my best friends grandfather was the son of a wealthy industrialist-- until he left home and saw what "laissez-faire" really meant. He ended up becoming a member of the Communist Party USA. Good 'ol Albert E. Kahn.

Hayek argued this - that command economies suffer from a knowledge deficiency. There are problems with this theory though (not in favour of leftism, however); this thread isn't really the place to discuss it, so I'll run them by you later.
Yes, but ultimately those criticisms haven't worked out nearly as well as what Hayek said.

I mean, the Soviets had some of the most brilliant mathematicians and econometricians the world has ever seen. Many of the models and methods they developed are still used today. But it didn't save the system.

Even if you could build a perfect economy, a single truck breaking down on the side of the road would throw stuff out of kilter and you'd have to recalculate virtually everything.

Seriously, why do you think that most very wealthy individuals argue for market discipline for the poor, and (more subtlely) state protection for the rich? They pretend to laud markets, but their fundamentally unwilling to subject themselves to the same amount of "market discipline" and individual responsiblity as they are willing to subject to others.
I am aware.

Beyond that, I laud you for sincerely being willing to try out your beliefs first hand.
Likewise.

Yes, but ultimately those criticisms haven't worked out nearly as well as what Hayek said.
I'll run them by you later as I said - it's not so much that Hayek was wrong as it is that he misdiagnosed the problem.

Seriously, why do you think that most very wealthy individuals argue for market discipline for the poor, and (more subtlely) state protection for the rich? They pretend to laud markets, but their fundamentally unwilling to subject themselves to the same amount of "market discipline" and individual responsiblity as they are willing to subject to others.
I am aware.

Beyond that, I laud you for sincerely being willing to try out your beliefs first hand.
Likewise.

Yes, but ultimately those criticisms haven't worked out nearly as well as what Hayek said.
I'll run them by you later as I said - it's not so much that Hayek was wrong as it is that he misdiagnosed the problem.

When I was in highschool, I was vaguely aware of what was going on, but I remember thinking that a woman had the right to choose and that the government should treat the teachers and health care workers better.

In my frist couple years of university, I pretty much became a socialist economically and liberal socially. I still feel that way, but I'm a lot more apathetic about things overall and think that generally we're going to steer the world down the toilet and make the planet unliveable before we (as a species) start to think about what we're doing.

edit: Actually, come to think of it, my very first political type notion was in grade 3, when I thought it would be awesome to do away with money. Then everyone would just work together to do what needs done for everyone, no one would be lacking in essentials and all would be well.

I was a staunch conservative, the kind that protests heavy metal for causing satanism and all that. Then I became steadily more liberal until embracing some form of democratic socialism years later. After that, I realized that my ideals were best met in a more revolutionary form of socialism and I turned to anarchism. Now I'm pretty much still anarchist but with some misgivings about conventional anarchist thought.

I made a thread like this a couple years ago, and have noticed some posters who have had dramatic changes in political views, including myself, so I decided to ask this question again.

As for me...

I started off as an apolitical Democrat (when all I knew about politics was George Bush v. Al Gore)

Next, I became a die-hard liberal.

Then, I got swept into the "libertarian trend" and became a big-l Libertarian.

Realizing I didn't agree with many of the libertarians' economic views, I shifted again to a liberal (US definition), but still with a distinct dislike for several leftist positions such as affirmative action and the socialistic sympathies of several lefties.

So, I'm a left-leaning liberal who hates communism, socialism, and neoconservatism.

You?
I used to be more liberal on economic issues, and more moderate on social issues. I am now further toward the libertarian ends on both issues (note: ACTUAL libertarian, not the current incarnation of American libertarianism).

I was apolitical up to the age of about 14. Then when I started getting interested I became broadly leftist, so things haven't changed at all really. I'm only 22 though, we'll see how it goes.

I was a staunch conservative, the kind that protests heavy metal for causing satanism and all that.
Weird - even when I was more of a conservative I still loved metal and metalhead fashion. :D

Yeah, even in my days when I was slightly more conservative I still loved metal...and wasn't too big on Jesus either.

I always felt that some metalheads were slightly rightwing anyway

It really depends. some brands of metal are definitively left-wing, but others can be seen as right-leaning minus the religion aspect really.

I always felt that some metalheads were slightly rightwing anyway

It really depends. some brands of metal are definitively left-wing, but others can be seen as right-leaning minus the religion aspect really.

As New Genoa said, it depends. Some of it can be right-wing in the Nazi/Fascist sense, other subgenres are of a more monarchist bent and some of the goth/punk genres have an Objectivist type twist to them. And thent here is that awful Christian rock. :rolleyes: None of it too explicit though, except in some cases. I'm as far to the right as it can get, and I like the latter two genres.

It really depends. some brands of metal are definitively left-wing, but others can be seen as right-leaning minus the religion aspect really.

I think it depends on the listener. To me, heavy metal has always been left wing (could be just the bands I listen to ;) )

Metal has always had a very big middle finger pointed at the rest of society. Heavy metal tends to reach its heights of underground and mainstream popularity during very conservative times (1980s US, right now, etc.). Some bands, particularly Queensryche and Rage Against the Machine, are unabashedly anarchist, while your usual thrash and underground fair are usually very anti-establishment and many times quite left wing.

Then again, musicians in general tend to be somewhat socially liberal.

I think it depends on the listener. To me, heavy metal has always been left wing (could be just the bands I listen to ;)
More or less. In Europe we get a lot of openly right-wing metal bands though. Some are just purely apolitical (e.g. Tristania).

More or less. In Europe we get a lot of openly right-wing metal bands though. Some are just purely apolitical (e.g. Tristania).

Not so much here in the US. Once you get outside of the mainstream hard rock (it makes me want to vomit!) you get into defintely a lot more serious musicians and much more outspoken people. When you're not trying to jockey for chart position, it leaves you a lot more room to be yourself.

I think part of it comes from the fact that a lot of US metal is influenced either from New Wave of British Heavy Metal (Iron Maiden, Judas Preist) or hardcore punk (Black Flag, etc.). I'm not sure about the european heavy metal scene, but they seem much more influenced by 70s hard rock like Deep Purple.

Music should be music and nothing more. If I wanna hear someone's political view I'll watch C-SPAN or some biased news channel. Leave your politics out of my movies, TV shows and music please. Politics is half the reason I stopped listening to such bands as "System of a Down" and "Peral Jam". Good bands, in my opinion, but they seriously need to STFU when it comes to politics in their songs.

I started out not carring about politics untill I got older. Then I turned into a hardcore 'Conservative' ... which morphed me into a 'Libertarian' as the Conservative Party continued to drive itself into the ground and I got to see what they were really like.

I was never, and will never, be a Liberal as it's my belief that we, as a whole, can run things ourselves just fine. We need little oversite by Big Brother.

What did you expect with a band name like system of a down? I haven't heard that much of Pearl Jam and there dosen't seem to be many political overtones. I know they do show it alot in live shows though.

Anyway people's political views are a part of who they are and they're going to express them in what ever they create.

Haha, you should listen to some of the Deathstars' lyrics... such as: "Slash the ministry in the face" or "Did you feel how the system shot you, 9 mm through your fucking head!!!"...

I do not mind politics in music. :) Or postmodern nihilism (e.g. Zeromancer).

To OP: Before I started playing NS, I was more of a conservative than anything else. During later high school, I became a liberal and borderline communist at one point, possibly due to the 'citizenship' crap they made us study there, but only for a while. After getting annoyed with the stupidity of my classmates, many who had bullied me for many years, I became more of a right-leaning liberal (more of a centrist over here). Nationstates in comparison with a few other variables, such as college, seems to have made me more of an extremist, but I'm not sure which way. My political compass is just left of centre as an average, and I tend to be very left wing on copyright and religion, and more right wing on immigration, education and most issues of social welfare. I was once described by a teacher as an 'Authoritarian Liberal' but that seems to be a senseless oxymoron to me.

I was listening to this aging punk band's lastest album the other day and they've got lyrics like " I won't fight in no facking war!". I was thinking of course you won't your 50 years old! What do they think the SAS are going to call them up tomorrow and ask them to go to Afghanistan or Iraq? I don't think so.

Music should be music and nothing more. If I wanna hear someone's political view I'll watch C-SPAN or some biased news channel. Leave your politics out of my movies, TV shows and music please. Politics is half the reason I stopped listening to such bands as "System of a Down" and "Peral Jam". Good bands, in my opinion, but they seriously need to STFU when it comes to politics in their songs.

I started out not carring about politics untill I got older. Then I turned into a hardcore 'Conservative' ... which morphed me into a 'Libertarian' as the Conservative Party continued to drive itself into the ground and I got to see what they were really like.

I was never, and will never, be a Liberal as it's my belief that we, as a whole, can run things ourselves just fine. We need little oversite by Big Brother.

I know what you mean; I started to hate Green Day for that reason.

Still, about the Big Brother thing; I've been on the streets and people tend not to give a shit about anything that doesnt belong to them. In my area at least more surveillance and prosecution is critical. Saying that, my neighbourhood is becoming increasingly like the Jeremy Kyle show daily; someone got shot at a while back by a drunkard trying to get in the wrong house.

I used to be a socialist, and now I'm a libertarian.

I used to be a socialist, and now I'm a libertarian.
From left to right, and yet still a hippy. :)

I'm a liberal and I hate hippies.

What did they ever do to you?

What did they ever do to you?

Two words: New Age.

*shudder*