NationStates Jolt Archive

"Effort to disarm" (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17284416/) my ass! I'd kill the punk, given the chance, too. Your thoughts?

Shit happens, especially to muggers with guns.

The fact that you seem so pleased at the death of a human being further reduces my faith in humanity.



Also, Semper Non Sequitur.

Would I kill someone mugging me?

How about "No"?

Would I kill someone mugging me?
How about "No"?

Seconded. It's just possessions. Sad to kill someone over, pathetic to risk one's own life over.

When you squeeze someone hard enough to make them stop fighting, sometimes things break.

In this case, the scapula and his neck. Hard to finesse that in a struggle, you know.

He broke the guys shoulder blade while strangling him?


But.............how?

Would I kill someone mugging me?

How about "No"?

When you squeeze someone hard enough to make them stop fighting, sometimes things break.

In this case, the scapula and his neck. Hard to finesse that in a struggle, you know.

When you squeeze someone hard enough to make them stop fighting, sometimes things break.

In this case, the scapula and his neck. Hard to finesse that in a struggle, you know.

Hmmm . . . should we make "finesse" the Word of the Day?

hey it happens, also you mean Semper Fidelis not Semper Fi ;)

Would I kill someone mugging me?

How about "No"?

Aren't you familiar with the phrase, "better him than me"?

Aren't you familiar with the phrase, "better him than me"?

In this case "better him than give up my wallet, watch and cell phone" fits better.

hey it happens, also you mean Semper Fidelis not Semper Fi ;)

Son, around heyarr, onna back o' my pickup, it says "Semper Fi!"

Sorry, I have no latin, other than ceterus perabus, which, all else being equal, I never get a chance to use.

In this case "better him than give up my wallet, watch and cell phone" fits better.

Sometimes, that's not all they want. We don't know too many details, so it's hard to say that's all they wanted.

He broke the guys shoulder blade while strangling him?


But.............how?
not strangling him, the old marine had the punk in a headlock trying to disarm him.

while it's sad to hear someone died, I'm not sheding tears since it was three punks trying to prey on some seinor citizens.

your poll options do not make sense. that i don't believe property is worth killing over does not mean that i necessarily feel sorry for a mugger - how can i feel sorry for someone whose circumstances i know nothing about?

hey it happens, also you mean Semper Fidelis not Semper Fi ;)
The marines, among others, can't fit that many syllables onto their logos, so they tend to drop the "-delis".
Sometimes, that's not all they want. We don't know too many details, so it's hard to say that's all they wanted.

But despite our collective lack of knowledge you felt ok about your "better the mugger than the old guy" bit?

"Effort to disarm" (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17284416/) my ass! I'd kill the punk, given the chance, too. Your thoughts?

I wouldn't kill them deliberately, but if it was necessary to protect myself, why not? They chose to mug me, so they chose the consequences (in reality, I probably wouldn't survive, but...) Of course, if I thought it was the safest option, I'd give up my money. But they might try to kill me anyway, and I'd be expecting it.

In this case "better him than give up my wallet, watch and cell phone" fits better.

expand that. wallet, watch, cell phone, credit cards, identity...

The marines, among others, can't fit that many syllables onto their logos, so they tend to drop the "-delis".


But despite our collective lack of knowledge you felt ok about your "better the mugger than the old guy" bit?

Yes, and I leave that decision to the old guy.

When the mugger meets other people in whatever afterlife there may be, I wonder if he will feel any embarrassment over the question "how did you die?" :p

your poll options do not make sense. that i don't believe property is worth killing over does not mean that i necessarily feel sorry for a mugger - how can i feel sorry for someone whose circumstances i know nothing about?

Well, if the guy is reduced to robbing senior citizens from other countries for a living, I expect something fairly pathetic in his background. Society makes its crooks, after all.

expand that. wallet, watch, cell phone, credit cards, identity...

Credit cards are and identification are often contained within said wallet. A few phone calls can cancel all those credit cards and freeze bank accounts.

Dude..that old guy totally shatters any perceptions of seniors one may have. Frail and weak my ass!:gundge:

Well, if the guy is reduced to robbing senior citizens from other countries for a living, I expect something fairly pathetic in his background. Society makes its crooks, after all.

which is why revelling in this guy's death (or anyone's death) is so utterly revolting. and yet it seems to happen so much on this forum.

which is why revelling in this guy's death (or anyone's death) is so utterly revolting. and yet it seems to happen so much on this forum.

So, if he was still out there, mugging people, you'd say "well, at least he didn't die"?

which is why revelling in this guy's death (or anyone's death) is so utterly revolting. and yet it seems to happen so much on this forum.

Life is a sexually transmitted, terminal disease. You can let that hold you down, or you can let it set you free.

So, if he was still out there, mugging people, you'd say "well, at least he didn't die"?

Life is always better than the alternative.

Life is always better than the alternative.

For you, or the mugger?

For you, or the mugger?

In general. Nobody deserves to die for being a mugger.

Life is always better than the alternative.

So, if you could save one child-molestor's life by having everyone in the world only just getting enough food not to die of starvation, that would be good?

So, if he was still out there, mugging people, you'd say "well, at least he didn't die"?

of course i don't wish him to be still mugging people. that i think revelling in the death of a human being is revolting does not mean that i believe muggers should be able to carry on without consequences.

Dammit, I hate getting last post on the page.

In general. Nobody deserves to die for being a mugger.

Unfortunately, life does not occur "in general." It's that old existential dilemma, no one else can take a bath for you. Life always occurs in the particular.

of course i don't wish him to be still mugging people. that i think revelling in the death of a human being is revolting does not mean that i believe muggers should be able to carry on without consequences.

OK, that's alright, I don't revel in anyone's death. I might think it was the better alternative, but that's hardly revelling.

So, if you could save one child-molestor's life by having everyone in the world only just getting enough food not to die of starvation, that would be good?

I could live with that. In fact everyone getting just enough to live on would be an improvement for many parts of the world.

Have any more ridiculous and pointless hypothetical situations to throw at me?

When the mugger meets other people in whatever afterlife there may be, I wonder if he will feel any embarrassment over the question "how did you die?" :p

I guess he would say, "I was WTFPWNED by some old dude..."

Until, while mugging someone, the victim ends up being the one to die.

That's your opinion. I'm against the death penalty for any crime.

In general. Nobody deserves to die for being a mugger.

Until, while mugging someone, the victim ends up being the one to die.

I could live with that. In fact everyone getting just enough to live on would be an improvement for many parts of the world.

Have any more ridiculous and pointless hypothetical situations to throw at me?

A pointless situation indeed, despite your liking it. As for the intended question, no, I needn't "throw" anything at you. You views have been made clear and that's all I wanted to know.

OK, that's alright, I don't revel in anyone's death. I might think it was the better alternative, but that's hardly revelling.

Yeah? Well, right or wrong, if someone tried to mug me at gunpoint, and I broke his neck, I'd dance on his grave. Egocentric? You bet! Human, and proud of it :fluffle:

That's your opinion. I'm against the death penalty for any crime.

I would say that if someone points a weapon at you, they have forfeited any right they have to live. If they die in the attempt to subdue them, why should we feel any sympathy? I would worry about all the victims and potential victims of the criminal and not weep over a criminal dying while commiting a violent felony.

Now, I am against the death penalty in regard to it being done by the state, but defending yourself is something completely different.

I would say that if someone points a weapon at you, they have forfeited any right they have to live. If they die in the attempt to subdue them, why should we feel any sympathy? I would worry about all the victims and potential victims of the criminal and not weep over a criminal dying while commiting a violent felony.

Now, I am against the death penalty in regard to it being done by the state, but defending yourself is something completely different.

While I agree that it is sometimes necessary to kill to defend yourself, unfortunately, I'd still prefer that nobody die in the course of a violent felony.

While I agree that it is sometimes necessary to kill to defend yourself, unfortunately, I'd still prefer that nobody die in the course of a violent felony.

When you're struggling with someone to hold them in a tight headlock to prevent them from using their gun, it's kind of a roll of the dice whether someone dies or not.

The mugger could have dropped the gun and ran at the first sign of resistance on the part of the victim.

While I agree that it is sometimes necessary to kill to defend yourself, unfortunately, I'd still prefer that nobody die in the course of a violent felony.

And I'd prefer there were no violent felony to begin with, eh?

When you're struggling with someone to hold them in a tight headlock to prevent them from using their gun, it's kind of a roll of the dice whether someone dies or not.

The mugger could have dropped the gun and ran at the first sign of resistance on the part of the victim.
I still don't get how the muggers scapula got broken during the headlock struggle.
And I'd prefer there were no violent felony to begin with, eh?

I'd be suprised if anyone here disagreed with that. I know the internet is full of crazies of various flavours, but I don't think we have the blatantly violence loving type here.

This guy died because of his own choices.

He chose to take a path of violence. More, he took a path of violence and crime with little worth of reward. Then, when opposed, he chose to resist the greater force coming down on his head.

Stupidity is it's own judge, jury and executioner.

While I agree that it is sometimes necessary to kill to defend yourself, unfortunately, I'd still prefer that nobody die in the course of a violent felony.

I would agree with you, it would be better if the criminal would survive but that shouldn't be the main consideration. The safety of the chosen victim is paramount. But hopefully the criminal will survive, go to prison and actually be genuinely rehabilitated.

Though I wouldn't count on that last part...

Maybe the two other men will think twice before trying to rob old people after seeing what happened to their partner. Hopefully it will also serve as a reminder to other would-be muggers not to screw with crazy Americans.

This is why more people should be armed. A broken neck is a terrible way to go.

I would agree with you, it would be better if the criminal would survive but that shouldn't be the main consideration. The safety of the chosen victim is paramount. But hopefully the criminal will survive, go to prison and actually be genuinely rehabilitated.

Though I wouldn't count on that last part...
Of course.
Maybe the two other men will think twice before trying to rob old people after seeing what happened to their partner. Hopefully it will also serve as a reminder to other would-be muggers not to screw with crazy Americans.

This is why more people should be armed. A broken neck is a terrible way to go.

Wouldn't a broken neck be a pretty quick death? Much like decapitation?

I am glad he is dead.

Studies show that a person is less likely to be injured or harmed if he resists, than if he lets a assailant go unopposed.

It all comes down to Kantian ethics - if a mugger thinks my life is worth 15 bucks, then his life is not worth all that much to me, either, and I will be respecting his values as a rational being in the process.

Personally, I like to respect muggers and their beliefs in the universal maxim with .357 SIG.

So it's alright for me to kill your mother if she tries to steal my wallet?

I'm vaguely facinated by how easy couch-ninjas and armchair gunmen dispence death sentences. I'm a bit more facinated by the fact that these types acyually seem to believe that they would be able to snuff a punk with their hands (It's not as easy as it appears in the movies. Honestly, it's not.)

What scares me, is that in some countries, they think it's a good idea to give them firearms. I'm glad I'm not from where they live. High school massacres, anyone?

Empty barrels rattle the most, isn't that how it goes?

Not if it wasn't done neatly and quickly. If it was a fracture from a chokehold that, when the person moved in an inopportune manner later, it could be quite a prolonged death.

Minutes.

Ick, unpleasant indeed.

Wouldn't a broken neck be a pretty quick death? Much like decapitation?

Not if it wasn't done neatly and quickly. If it was a fracture from a chokehold that, when the person moved in an inopportune manner later, it could be quite a prolonged death.

Minutes.

Wouldn't a broken neck be a pretty quick death? Much like decapitation?

As I understand it a broken neck can be survivable in some rare cases and that even when fatal you can still live minutes afterward. Doesn't have to be instantly fatal like in the movies.

Wouldn't a broken neck be a pretty quick death? Much like decapitation?
I think your head can survive for something like 30 seconds after it's been severed. The French did experiments on this sort of thing.

I'm vaguely facinated by how easy couch-ninjas and armchair gunmen dispence death sentences. I'm a bit more facinated by the fact that these types acyually seem to believe that they would be able to snuff a punk with their hands (It's not as easy as it appears in the movies. Honestly, it's not.)

What scares me, is that in some countries, they think it's a good idea to give them firearms. I'm glad I'm not from where they live. High school massacres, anyone?

Empty barrels rattle the most, isn't that how it goes?

But not as much as empty heads? LOL! No way I think it would be easy! That's why I'd be dancin' on that grave!

So it's alright for me to kill your mother if she tries to steal my wallet?

Dunno 'bout you, Ruffino, but the average mother isn't a mugger.

Depends whether the spinal cord is severed or just badly damaged. A full severance is usually instantly fatal - breathing and heartbeat just stop. Severe damage can keep things going for a while. What usually kills then is swelling around the cord caused by the damage - this eventually crushes the cord. But that can take minutes.

If you're really unlucky, the swelling doesn't kill you. Then it's all the other organs failing one by one that does you in - that can take days.

I'm vaguely facinated by how easy couch-ninjas and armchair gunmen dispence death sentences. I'm a bit more facinated by the fact that these types acyually seem to believe that they would be able to snuff a punk with their hands (It's not as easy as it appears in the movies. Honestly, it's not.)

What scares me, is that in some countries, they think it's a good idea to give them firearms. I'm glad I'm not from where they live. High school massacres, anyone?

Empty barrels rattle the most, isn't that how it goes?

Well acyually Mecha. some of us do know what we're talking about. Please enlighten us as to why your knowledge is superior.

Credit cards are and identification are often contained within said wallet. A few phone calls can cancel all those credit cards and freeze bank accounts.
ah, but first you have to get to a phone. by then... your credit cards would've been used. and I know that the first thing anyone does in a mugging is call their banks within minutes.

add to that the fact that they have enough information to steal your Identitiy...

I'm vaguely facinated by how easy couch-ninjas and armchair gunmen dispence death sentences. I'm a bit more facinated by the fact that these types acyually seem to believe that they would be able to snuff a punk with their hands (It's not as easy as it appears in the movies. Honestly, it's not.)

What scares me, is that in some countries, they think it's a good idea to give them firearms. I'm glad I'm not from where they live. High school massacres, anyone?

Empty barrels rattle the most, isn't that how it goes?

kinda like those Couch-lawyers and Armchair Judges who sit back and condemn things because they feel that they are morally superior in their Laz-E-boys?

You guys missed the point...

A 70 year old Senior Citizen killed a man with a knife by putting him into a chokehold.

The mugger was 20 years old.

Now...

I don't view Humanity any less if a man enjoys the fact another man is dead. I believe it is normal, and those who view Humanity as pityful because of death dealed upon another by another are ones I sort of view pityfully...because they truely think they understand Human nature when they do not. If ya hate it, go kill your self or pretend to be a Kitten. Oh, wait, Kittens kill Kittens too, not to mention other things...like Rodents.

Well acyually Mecha. some of us do know what we're talking about. Please enlighten us as to why your knowledge is superior.

After a few years of martial arts and as a serving soldier, I've actually given the matter some thought. I've decided that, yes, if the sircumstanses where right (or wrong), I would fire at a person, and that, yes, I would do my best to kill someone with my hands.

However, there's a bit of a gap between our worlds, since I've never boasted of my killing skills. And the mere fact that someone with training would brag about it is shocking. If anyone doing so has trained lethal unarmed techniques, I'm sure their sensei would love to hear about it. If they possess a firearm, well, there's an argument for gun-control for you.

Awesome story that old man is a hero. And to those of you about to jump on me for not fealing bad about a person dying; If there is a person threatening my life or those of my friends/family especially with a weapon, I would not think twice about killing him if I had to/ had the opportunity to. You forget that one of them was pointing a gun at the other people.

What makes this story funny to me is that a 70 year old vet was able to kill a young man with a gun... barehanded while protecting his fellow old people.

You guys missed the point...

A 70 year old Senior Citizen killed a man with a knife by putting him into a chokehold.

The mugger was 20 years old.

Now...

I don't view Humanity any less if a man enjoys the fact another man is dead. I believe it is normal, and those who view Humanity as pityful because of death dealed upon another by another are ones I sort of view pityfully...because they truely think they understand Human nature when they do not. If ya hate it, go kill your self or pretend to be a Kitten. Oh, wait, Kittens kill Kittens too, not to mention other things...like Rodents.

Well Put! *high fives*

He broke the guys shoulder blade while strangling him?
But.............how?
The bone that makes up the shoulder blade is so thin that light can shine through it - it's the muscles on top of it that make it robust.

Besides, I just noticed that the article mentions the clavicle, which is not the shoulder blade but the little bone between sternum and shoulder... That one breaks fairly easily.
As I understand it a broken neck can be survivable in some rare cases and that even when fatal you can still live minutes afterward. Doesn't have to be instantly fatal like in the movies.
A broken neck does not necessarily mean you'll die. You can even survive it without any permanent injury (very rarely, though!) and you'll usually get paraplegia.
When I was a paramedic I was told the story of a man who survived his broken neck after falling down some rocks he was climbing because he held his head in his own hands until help arrived and put a cervical collar around his neck...

I'd be suprised if anyone here disagreed with that. I know the internet is full of crazies of various flavours, but I don't think we have the blatantly violence loving type here.

So, tell you what, you get people to stop commiting violent crime, and I'll stop rejoicing when someone hands them their ass, okay? :fluffle:

What it comes down to is if someone was attacking me, regardless of whether they had a knife or a gun, if I had no other way to defend mysef and they posed a sufficient threat to my life, I would not hesitate to use lethal force to insure my survival.