NationStates Jolt Archive

I, for one, would like to be the first to welcome our new chimp overlords.

My thread now, nyah nyah nyah nyah nyah.

Chimps have been observed making spears with techniques that use up to four steps to produce the weapon, then hunting with them. That's pretty impressive to me. Maybe we should start giving them rights similar to the ones enjoyed by humans before they decide to start a revolution and overthrow an African nation.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6387611.stm

Chimps have been observed making spears with techniques that use up to four steps to produce the weapon, then hunting with them. That's pretty impressive to me. Maybe we should start giving them rights similar to the ones enjoyed by humans before they decide to start a revolution and overthrow an African nation.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6387611.stm
I wonder what all the evo-devo sorts will say about the fact that female chimps are the ones seen using these weapons. I hear all the time about how men are "biologically designed" to be hunters and warriors, and how tools are the province of the menfolk, yet this behavior in our closest genetic relatives seems not to fit with that image. Hmmm.

I like the Newscientist headline for this

Spear-wileding chimps snack on skewered bushbabies

*must not make obvious Bush jokes*

I, for one, would like to be the first to welcome our new chimp overlords.

My thread now, nyah nyah nyah nyah nyah.

Damn your eyes, that was my joke!

I saw this a few days ago. Chimps are definitely racing up the evolutionary ladder. If you see them sitting around a fire, be very afraid. :D

OMG - Planeta De Los Simios moment.

You crazy bastards, you did it!

Damn your eyes, that was my joke!

My thread, my joke. :p

All I can think about now is the opening for 2001: A Space Odyssey.

we safe till they get hold of a gun

I wonder what all the evo-devo sorts will say about the fact that female chimps are the ones seen using these weapons. I hear all the time about how men are "biologically designed" to be hunters and warriors, and how tools are the province of the menfolk, yet this behavior in our closest genetic relatives seems not to fit with that image. Hmmm.

Well, the warrior part, yeah. Whenever the male of a species tends to be larger than the female you can safely bet it's because they fight for dominance and the right to breed with the females. As for hunting, judging from one of those TV nature shows I saw once, the males just kill monkeys with their bare hands and teeth.

I can't find an image of that Nasa chimp from the Simpsons anywhere. *is disappointed*

I wonder what all the evo-devo sorts will say about the fact that female chimps are the ones seen using these weapons. I hear all the time about how men are "biologically designed" to be hunters and warriors, and how tools are the province of the menfolk, yet this behavior in our closest genetic relatives seems not to fit with that image. Hmmm.

I could go into a long discourse about why in most primitive societies, most hunting is done by men, but I won't. I'll just point out that in almost all primitive societies, women occasionally hunt, especially women without small children slowing them down. There are few primitive societies with an absolute and unbreachable division of labor between the sexes. Sexism seems to be a development of more "civilized" societies. :p

we safe till they get hold of a gun

Then we will have to pry the guns from their damn dirty hands

I wonder what all the evo-devo sorts will say about the fact that female chimps are the ones seen using these weapons. I hear all the time about how men are "biologically designed" to be hunters and warriors, and how tools are the province of the menfolk, yet this behavior in our closest genetic relatives seems not to fit with that image. Hmmm.

Humans are, with rare exception, not chimps.

atleast that is what I assume they will say.

As for the actual story, I want one.

Then we will have to pry the guns from their damn dirty hands
i guess so an i guess cops show wont be the same too

I could go into a long discourse about why in most primitive societies, most hunting is done by men, but I won't. I'll just point out that in almost all primitive societies, women occasionally hunt, especially women without small children slowing them down. There are few primitive societies with an absolute and unbreachable division of labor between the sexes. Sexism seems to be a development of more "civilized" societies. :p

anthropological comparisons are not very reliable for determining the behaviour of prehistoric societies. this is because contemporary 'primitive' societies are, without exception, found in marginal areas. to suggest that prehistoric hunter-gatherer societies in resource rich areas would necessarily have had the same social organisation and divisions of labour is to make a logical leap that is reliant on far too many assumptions to be truly credible. in fact most recent interpretations of rock art and other material traces of prehistoric societies show that there is a definite case for supposing that there was no division of labour according to biological sex.

I wonder how long before the sticks are classed as WMD? Surely Bush wouldn't attack his nearest and dearest though:p

Where have you been? We've known for a long time that chimps wage war.

Humans are, with rare exception, not chimps.

atleast that is what I assume they will say.
Not the evo-devo types. They are the first to point at animal behavior as justification for human sex differences.

Where have you been? We've known for a long time that chimps wage war.

I never knew that they hunted with spears. I knew they fought and killed each other. I knew they broke open nuts with stones and pieces of wood. I knew they used twigs to catch ants and termites. Spears is a new one on me.

I wonder what all the evo-devo sorts will say about the fact that female chimps are the ones seen using these weapons. I hear all the time about how men are "biologically designed" to be hunters and warriors, and how tools are the province of the menfolk, yet this behavior in our closest genetic relatives seems not to fit with that image. Hmmm.

Well, hunters and warriors are hardly the same thing - compare Lions. The males are the "warriors" fighting for territory, the females are the hunters, bringing in the food.

Well, the warrior part, yeah. Whenever the male of a species tends to be larger than the female you can safely bet it's because they fight for dominance and the right to breed with the females.

Not exactly. In many cases, sexual dimorphism actually puts males at a disadvantage when it comes to combat and/or hunting. This is because mate selection often trumps longevity of the individual. In other words, for some species it is more important that you be selected for mating one time than that you survive beyond that single mating. Impressing a female so she chooses to mate with you can, in these cases, be more important to reproductive fitness than actually being able to hunt or fight effectively.

Furthermore, the strongest correlation when it comes to sexual dimorphism appears to be related to care of offspring. Species with the largest degrees of sex dimorphism tend also to be the species where the young are cared for by only one of the parents and where mated pairs do not remain together after reproducing. Humans tend to show relatively little sex dimorphism, which is consistent given the high degree of investment required by human young and the tendency for humans to form more lasting bonds between mates.


As for hunting, judging from one of those TV nature shows I saw once, the males just kill monkeys with their bare hands and teeth.
Yes, adult males tend to use the bare hands and teeth approach, while juveniles appear to learn to use weapons from their mothers. Adult females also (according to this research) learn to use weapons more readily than adult males.

I am certain that if the study had presented the opposite results, we'd have people holding it up as "proof" that males are better wired to use weapons because they are supposed to be the warriors and the hunters. Since the research shows that females learn to use weapons faster, it is instead held up as proof that males don't need no stinking weapons because males are supposed to be warriors and hunters. Just another great example of how people first set their conclusions and then interpret the data however they want.

i guess so an i guess cops show wont be the same too

Can't wait for the CSI or Law and Order episode with a monkey murderer.

Well, hunters and warriors are hardly the same thing - compare Lions. The males are the "warriors" fighting for territory, the females are the hunters, bringing in the food.
Absolutely true. I've simply seen the two equated very frequently by people who appear to view aggressive violence as innately "male."

Absolutely true. I've simply seen the two equated very frequently by people who appear to view aggressive violence as innately "male."

If anything, the females in a lot of species are the brutally aggressive and violent ones...thank God I'm not a spider.

anthropological comparisons are not very reliable for determining the behaviour of prehistoric societies. this is because contemporary 'primitive' societies are, without exception, found in marginal areas. to suggest that prehistoric hunter-gatherer societies in resource rich areas would necessarily have had the same social organisation and divisions of labour is to make a logical leap that is reliant on far too many assumptions to be truly credible. in fact most recent interpretations of rock art and other material traces of prehistoric societies show that there is a definite case for supposing that there was no division of labour according to biological sex.

"Logical leaps"? I merely stated a cogent fact: that women in existing primitive human societies have been known to hunt and to use weapons, which pretty much explodes any argument that "men are biologically designed to use weapons and tools", so it's not necessary to use chimps to do so. Comparing chimp behavior to human behavior is problematic at best, but comparing human behavior to human behavior at least has the advantage that you're dealing with the same species.

However, if you want to make a few logical leaps, let's throw in the fact that most existing wild chimps live in areas that are marginal by human standards, so the fact that most primitive humans live in marginal areas may actually support whatever argument you thought I was making. :D

If anything, the females in a lot of species are the brutally aggressive and violent ones...thank God I'm not a spider.

Not so much in species where the males are larger. Look at ungulates like deer. The males grow antlers and fight for the right to mate. Look at Orangutans. The males drive other males out of their territory to monopolize the females in overlapping territories. The lion example was already given. In species like spiders, praying mantises, and others where the females are larger they're more violent towards others of their kind. Even in humans the rates for violence among males and females differ.

Not exactly. In many cases, sexual dimorphism actually puts males at a disadvantage when it comes to combat and/or hunting. This is because mate selection often trumps longevity of the individual. In other words, for some species it is more important that you be selected for mating one time than that you survive beyond that single mating. Impressing a female so she chooses to mate with you can, in these cases, be more important to reproductive fitness than actually being able to hunt or fight effectively. Yeah. That's true. In most of the great apes you see that. Orangutans are an exception. If a female orangutan doesn't want to mate with the local male he will rape her. In complex human societies being able to impress a female became a more successful strategy than being able to intimidate the male competition though. Still we've got some of those leftover genes that make us bigger than females and more aggressive. Look at the violent crime statistics for men and for women.

Furthermore, the strongest correlation when it comes to sexual dimorphism appears to be related to care of offspring. Species with the largest degrees of sex dimorphism tend also to be the species where the young are cared for by only one of the parents and where mated pairs do not remain together after reproducing. Humans tend to show relatively little sex dimorphism, which is consistent given the high degree of investment required by human young and the tendency for humans to form more lasting bonds between mates.


Yes, adult males tend to use the bare hands and teeth approach, while juveniles appear to learn to use weapons from their mothers. Adult females also (according to this research) learn to use weapons more readily than adult males.

I am certain that if the study had presented the opposite results, we'd have people holding it up as "proof" that males are better wired to use weapons because they are supposed to be the warriors and the hunters. Since the research shows that females learn to use weapons faster, it is instead held up as proof that males don't need no stinking weapons because males are supposed to be warriors and hunters. Just another great example of how people first set their conclusions and then interpret the data however they want.I'm not trying to argue that females can't use weapons as effectively as men. I would argue, however, that men would be more likely to use those weapons against others of their own kind.

*must not make obvious Bush jokes*

Well I trust chimps more than I trust certain world leaders...


Sorry

Where have you been? We've known for a long time that chimps wage war.
But now they have pointy sticks! http://www.texasracingscene.com/images/smilies/poke.gif
Not the evo-devo types. They are the first to point at animal behavior as justification for human sex differences.
True, and animal behavior can be telling. But hardly the end-all, be-all
Furthermore, the strongest correlation when it comes to sexual dimorphism appears to be related to care of offspring. Species with the largest degrees of sex dimorphism tend also to be the species where the young are cared for by only one of the parents and where mated pairs do not remain together after reproducing. Humans tend to show relatively little sex dimorphism, which is consistent given the high degree of investment required by human young and the tendency for humans to form more lasting bonds between mates.tied into that, but slightly different, is the aspect of female distribution. Female distribution determines mating styles (monogamy, polygyny, polyandry), which impacts dimorphism. And testical size, but thats a whole nother thread about a whole nother kind of poking...


I am certain that if the study had presented the opposite results, we'd have people holding it up as "proof" that males are better wired to use weapons because they are supposed to be the warriors and the hunters. Since the research shows that females learn to use weapons faster, it is instead held up as proof that males don't need no stinking weapons because males are supposed to be warriors and hunters. Just another great example of how people first set their conclusions and then interpret the data however they want.
See? This is where humans and chimps differ. My father can use electronics just fine. My mom still can't pick up her voicemails;)

I wonder what all the evo-devo sorts will say about the fact that female chimps are the ones seen using these weapons. I hear all the time about how men are "biologically designed" to be hunters and warriors, and how tools are the province of the menfolk, yet this behavior in our closest genetic relatives seems not to fit with that image. Hmmm.

Oh wait, CHIMPS AREN'T HUMANS.

Can't wait for the CSI or Law and Order episode with a monkey murderer.

Try reading that Rue Morgue story of Edgar Allan Poe about a murdering ape...

Literature seems to be still a step forward...

Try reading that Rue Morgue story of Edgar Allan Poe about a murdering ape...

Literature seems to be still a step forward...

I still feel bad for the poor ape....he was just trying to fit in!

I still feel bad for the poor ape....he was just trying to fit in!

He was indeed.

That story is so CSI oriented...I hope they make an episode as an "homage"

Grissom is a newbie in comparison to that Poe's character, although.

So...in a few years we'll have something like a David Brin novel, with talking chimps and dolphins?
Awesome. Then we can meet the psychotic aliens!

They have displayed intelligence and show great potential. The time has come, we must uplift this species and use it to enforce our will throughout the galaxy. Perhaps in a few millenia they will be granted their freedom and gain citizenship.

They have displayed intelligence and show great potential. The time has come, we must uplift this species and use it to enforce our will throughout the galaxy. Perhaps in a few millenia they will be granted their freedom and gain citizenship.

I personally liked the Dolphin charecters more. I think we should focus on them.

George Taylor: A planet where apes evolved from men? There's got to be an answer.
Dr. Zaius: Don't look for it, Taylor. You may not like what you find.

Oh wait, CHIMPS AREN'T HUMANS.

You sure about that?

Monkey see, monkey do?

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/GermanNightmare/MonkeyWithGun.gif
"Chimp, motherfucker, do you speak it?"

Looks like in between, we'd now have to put a "monkey think" as well!

You sure about that?

Genus pan != Genus homo

:p

http://www.uncleodiescollectibles.com/img_lib/Planet%20of%20the%20Apes%20383%202-24-6.jpg

:)

My god! At the rate of humans, in a few centuries they'll have bronze swords! Then iron swords! Then who, I ask you, who will keep you safe from the MATCHLOCK PISTOL WIELDING CHIMPS! And then a few centuries after that, the jungles will be shreiking with the sounds of chimp machine-gun fire and bazookas. Then, what's next? I'll tell you what's next: Chimps become a serious enemy in the War on Terror.

My god! At the rate of humans, in a few centuries they'll have bronze swords! Then iron swords! Then who, I ask you, who will keep you safe from the MATCHLOCK PISTOL WIELDING CHIMPS! And then a few centuries after that, the jungles will be shreiking with the sounds of chimp machine-gun fire and bazookas. Then, what's next? I'll tell you what's next: Chimps become a serious enemy in the War on Terror.
Unless we counter with Gorilla warfare!!!

Unless we counter with Gorilla warfare!!!

Urgh.

Urgh.
.???
-http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/GermanNightmare/monkey.png

Impressing a female so she chooses to mate with you can, in these cases, be more important to reproductive fitness than actually being able to hunt or fight effectively.

poor irish elk

Chimps have been observed making spears with techniques that use up to four steps to produce the weapon, then hunting with them. That's pretty impressive to me. Maybe we should start giving them rights similar to the ones enjoyed by humans before they decide to start a revolution and overthrow an African nation.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6387611.stm

I for one would like to wel--ah crap, Ifreann already said it.

...um...Chimpsdale is on the horizon?

Chimps have been observed making spears with techniques that use up to four steps to produce the weapon, then hunting with them. That's pretty impressive to me. Maybe we should start giving them rights similar to the ones enjoyed by humans before they decide to start a revolution and overthrow an African nation.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6387611.stm

LOL! God is displeased with the human race so he's making chimps evolve so that they can replace us! :D *hides before Planet of the Apes happens for real*

LOL! God is displeased with the human race so he's making chimps evolve so that they can replace us! :D *hides before Planet of the Apes happens for real*
Well, she (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gubiP3mP3Ds&mode=related&search=) agrees with you at least. Goddamn fag-enabling buffoons!

Well, she (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gubiP3mP3Ds&mode=related&search=) agrees with you at least. Goddamn fag-enabling buffoons!

LORD NO! I was being sarcastic! :eek:

Ewww... being compared with the Phelps makes me feel unclean.... :( *pours sulfuric acid over self*

we safe till they get hold of a gun


http://www.imdb.com/gallery/ss/0133152/Ss/0133152/Apes202001_25.jpg.html?hint=group

Hmmm :D

Genus pan != Genus homo

:p

There's a growing argument for Pan being folded into Homo.

Daggers is more accurate than spears, given the way they stab.

guys, didnt you realise my secret which isnt really that secret?

Yes, I am the by product of a horrible experment with chimps. I am in fact a chimp. Not even altered to be more intelligent, oh no, not at all...I am

SUPER CHIMP!

See, in around one generation ALL chimps will be like me muhahaha muhahahah muahahaha *needs good evil music*

http://www.radioblogclub.com/open/126343/bach/Bach%20-%20Toccata%20and%20Fugue%20in%20D%20Minor%20%28Phantom%20of%20the%20Opera%29%20cathedral%20pipe%20or gan

hehe. Im not really a chimp, but you never know...In a few years...Possibly

I've neem watching them use 9mms for years on convenient store security cams.
they will be a real threat when they hold the gun straight instead of sideways and use their "trigger finger" on the trigger instead of their middle finger.

I've neem watching them use 9mms for years on convenient store security cams.
they will be a real threat when they hold the gun straight instead of sideways and use their "trigger finger" on the trigger instead of their middle finger.

Am I the only one who gets a horribly racist vibe off of this post?

Am I the only one who gets a horribly racist vibe off of this post?

you may be the only one that envisioned a specific enthnicity,when I simply refered to armed criminals.

I've neem watching them use 9mms for years on convenient store security cams.
they will be a real threat when they hold the gun straight instead of sideways and use their "trigger finger" on the trigger instead of their middle finger.

It'll be a bad day for all of us when gangstas actually learn how to shoot.

It'll be a bad day for all of us when gangstas actually learn how to shoot.

as long as they dont make a "Scarface II" with better weapons training, we'll be alright.

Somehow I didn't think it would be a surprise for anyone...

you may be the only one that envisioned a specific enthnicity,when I simply refered to armed criminals.

When used in the context of humans, "chimps" is a racial slur.