NationStates Jolt Archive

After spending 18 million on backing Bill Clinton, he's not so sure anymore.

All he would need to do to become a total Republican at this point would be to back the war in Iraq.

-- "I don’t think anybody believes that in the last six years, all of a sudden Bill Clinton has become a different person,” Mr. Geffen says, adding that if Republicans are digging up dirt, they’ll wait until Hillary’s the nominee to use it. “I think they believe she’s the easiest to defeat.”

-- She is overproduced and overscripted. “It’s not a very big thing to say, ‘I made a mistake’ on the war, and typical of Hillary Clinton that she can’t,” Mr. Geffen says. “She’s so advised by so many smart advisers who are covering every base. I think that America was better served when the candidates were chosen in smoke-filled rooms.”

-- Once, David Geffen and Bill Clinton were tight as ticks. Mr. Geffen helped raise some $18 million for Bill and slept in the Lincoln Bedroom twice. Bill chilled at Chateau Geffen. Now, the Dreamworks co-chairman calls the former president “a reckless guy” who “gave his enemies a lot of ammunition to hurt him and to distract the country.”

-- They fell out in 2000, when Mr. Clinton gave a pardon to Marc Rich after rebuffing Mr. Geffen’s request for one for Leonard Peltier. “Marc Rich getting pardoned? An oil-profiteer expatriate who left the country rather than pay taxes or face justice?” Mr. Geffen says. “Yet another time when the Clintons were unwilling to stand for the things that they genuinely believe in. Everybody in politics lies, but they do it with such ease, it’s troubling.”

maybe mr geffen had a fondness for bill that just doesnt extend to hillary. i dont see why liking bill should mean automatic support for his wife.

maybe mr geffen had a fondness for bill that just doesnt extend to hillary. i dont see why liking bill should mean automatic support for his wife.
I think _everyone_ is more fond of Bill than of Hillary.

Maybe a little more of this kind of exposure will remind people that we need to elect a leader, not a black, a woman, a Mormon...

All he would need to do to become a total Republican at this point would be to back the war in Iraq.

You're joking, right? Its dangerously boorish politics to suggest that distaste for a front-runner reverses anyones political opinions. I pity you if you can only see politics in black and white.

You're joking, right? Its dangerously boorish politics to suggest that distaste for a front-runner reverses anyones political opinions. I pity you if you can only see politics in black and white.

Hey, he's The Artist Formerly Known as Deep Kimchi. You know, "Sterilize All Muslims"?

Hey, he's The Artist Formerly Known as Deep Kimchi. You know, "Sterilize All Muslims"?

Eve Online is DK? I thought DK was a conservative..? The OP didn't come across that way.

After spending 18 million on backing Bill Clinton, he's not so sure anymore.

All he would need to do to become a total Republican at this point would be to back the war in Iraq.

So all you have to do to be a republican is hate the clintons? I thought there was two, but as Geffen is out of the closet he doesnt pass that one anyway....

After spending 18 million on backing Bill Clinton, he's not so sure anymore.

All he would need to do to become a total Republican at this point would be to back the war in Iraq.

Except that he's raising money for Barack Obama, and that's just like becoming a Republican.

maybe mr geffen had a fondness for bill that just doesnt extend to hillary. i dont see why liking bill should mean automatic support for his wife.

I'm the same way. I like Bill, but fucking HATE Hillary.

Hey, he's The Artist Formerly Known as Deep Kimchi. You know, "Sterilize All Muslims"?

Nope. Not even close.

Except that he's raising money for Barack Obama, and that's just like becoming a Republican.Yeah, lobbying for a pardon for Leonard Peltier also screams Republican.

I think _everyone_ is more fond of Bill than of Hillary.



I like Bill, he played the middle near perfectly, and save for some irrelevant infidelities he would be remembered as the President who presided over some of the best years of the American experience, up to that point.

So when did anybody start caring what David Geffen thinks?

So when did anybody start caring what David Geffen thinks?

Oh you know how it works-they bitch and moan that anyone other than a syndicated pundit should keep their opinions to themselves and nothing they say matters until they say something they agree with, then of course we're going to listen to them.

I think _everyone_ is more fond of Bill than of Hillary.

Maybe a little more of this kind of exposure will remind people that we need to elect a leader, not a black, a woman, a Mormon...

Nice to see you're finally being straight about your racist, sexist, and close-minded ways, Myrmi.

Deep Kimchi: Bullshit. We know you're DK, "Eve." Stop hiding.

Also, I agree with Dobbsy: who cares what this Hollywood mogul thinks?

I'm the same way. I like Bill, but fucking HATE Hillary.

Bill- Ended our 1980s debt. Brought America into the first surplus since the Cold War began. Realizes that oral sex ain't bad :D

Hillary- Wants to outlaw video games. And, as Larry the Cable Guy says,

"You better watch out!
I think she's a guy.
Can't quite tell, but somethin' ain't right.
...
Hillary Clinton's com-ing to town." :D :D :p :D :cool:

Also, she likes PC and censoring. :upyours:





Hmm... they're EXACTLY the same! :rolleyes:

Nice to see you're finally being straight about your racist, sexist, and close-minded ways, Myrmi.


Better that you should realize most people are not the two-dimensional figures that you want them to be.

Eve Online is DK? I thought DK was a conservative..? The OP didn't come across that way.The OP certainly came across with DK's usual cynical style. And that's ignoring the posting history.

Nice to see you're finally being straight about your racist, sexist, and close-minded ways, Myrmi.

Deep Kimchi: Bullshit. We know you're DK, "Eve." Stop hiding.

Also, I agree with Dobbsy: who cares what this Hollywood mogul thinks?

LEt me get this straight from the Bush Republicans. 1. Hollywood is evil, or it isn't? 2. Maureen Dowd is a loony liberal, or she isn't? Pick and choose folks. EO, you can even have different opinions for you and your puppet.

All of the sudden David Geffen matters? I dislike Hillary and hope that she will gracefully bow out in not too long. She has far too much of a negative rating and will be easily swiftboated. Hell, we know how far the Bush Republicans are willing to go to lie, fear and smear, fear and smear. God, guns, gays. And remember folks, "They're going to raise your taxes!!!!!" John McCain used to be a solid player for me but his reccent pandering to the right has masde me want to walk away. If we're looking for a leader we sure know that Barack knows how to lead. Right now I'm praying for someone else to throw themselves into the mix that has a more pragmatic point of view devoid of an ideological bend.

All of the sudden David Geffen matters? I dislike Hillary and hope that she will gracefully bow out in not too long. She has far too much of a negative rating and will be easily swiftboated. Hell, we know how far the Bush Republicans are willing to go to lie, fear and smear, fear and smear. God, guns, gays. And remember folks, "They're going to raise your taxes!!!!!" John McCain used to be a solid player for me but his reccent pandering to the right has masde me want to walk away. If we're looking for a leader we sure know that Barack knows how to lead. Right now I'm praying for someone else to throw themselves into the mix that has a more pragmatic point of view devoid of an ideological bend.
I'll go down that road, since I want us to elect a leader. What has Obama done that indicates he can lead a horse to water, let alone the United States?

I'll go down that road, since I want us to elect a leader. What has Obama done that indicates he can lead a horse to water, let alone the United States?

What has he done that indicates that ha can not lead USA?

Frankly, as a Hollywood Liberal, I could care less what David Geffen thinks. The sun does not rise and shine on his opinions in my world.

I don't particularly care for Hillary, but that is based on my observations of her and understanding her enough to realize that I think she would be a poor President.

The jury is out on Obama, although I like him.

Right now, I prefer John Edwards and that should shock other liberals. I think Edwards is progressive with a moderate streak. He has a good temperament for the job of President.

In a sane world, the race for Democratic nominee would be between Edwards and Obama.

What has he done that indicates that ha can not lead USA?
Just the absence of qualification is not, in itself, a qualification.

But, since you asked...
1. He recently said "let's allow our unions and their organizers to lift up this country's middle class again." This is BS. Unions do not raise the standards of living. All they can do is forbid employers from paying less than some negotiated amount. When that happens, some workers, who are perfectly capable, become unemployable because their productivity isn't worth their wages. Then, as Detroit has been doing, tens of thousands of union workers are laid off. The counterpoint to that is that Toyota USA has been hiring tens of thousands of non-union workers.

2. He thinks higher teacher pay is the answer to the abysmal failures of our education system, which is already far more expensive than the education provided in countries whose students have for decades consistently outperformed ours on international tests.

3. He is for making college "affordable," as if he has never considered that government subsidies push up tuition, just as government subsidies push up agricultural prices, the price of medical care and other prices.

Senator Obama is not unique among politicians who want to control prices, as if that is controlling the underlying reality behind the prices. For that reason, alone, he is unfit to lead the United States.

I'll go down that road, since I want us to elect a leader. What has Obama done that indicates he can lead a horse to water, let alone the United States?

Barack Obama seems to be a born leader. Add him to a ticket to another man who is brilliant and can lead entire armies in Wesley Clark and I'd go for that. Where has he led? Let me list some of his leadership posts and roles for you.

He's led the hopefund for America

Senator Barack Obama, along with House members Mike Thompson and Patrick Murphy, has introduced the Iraq War De-Escalation Act of 2007. Whether you like this act or not, it's leadership

When Barack Obama challenged himself by becoming a community organizer in the Chicago slums rather than go to law school, he very nearly lost the challenge. In the end, he won through, and his risky path led him to become a U.S. Senator from Illinois. But as he told the graduating class of Northwestern University not long ago, the venture came close to defeat before he learned his third great leadership lesson in a dingy office on the south side of Chicago.

It was to have been his first community meeting, and the topic was gang violence. Obama and his volunteer helpers spent weeks planning the meeting, passing out flyers, visiting churches, inviting police speakers, telephoning reminders, and lining up row after row of chairs to handle the crowd. But it was a fiasco; when a tiny group of older people finally wandered in, it turned out they were looking for a bingo game. The police never came. In all, thirteen people showed up.

In the wake, Obama's volunteers told him they were quitting. They had been trying this for two years, they said, and had nothing to show for it. Staring out the window, facing failure, Obama saw a group of boys in a vacant lot, idly throwing stones at the boarded-up windows of abandoned buildings.

"Before you quit, I want you to answer one question," he said. "What's gonna happen to those boys? Who will fight for them if not us? Who will give them a fair shot if we leave?" One by one, the volunteers decided not to quit. They kept at the job, learning to know the people, absorbing the lessons of community politics they had ignored, and comforting themselves with small victories. Over time, says Obama, "A community changed. And so had we."

His third great lesson of leadership is deceptively simple: Persevere. Making a mark on the world is hard, Obama told the Northwestern graduates; it takes patience and commitment, and failure is part of the job description. But you have to keep plugging at it.

That's a lesson Mike Abrashoff learned over and over as captain of the guided missile destroyer USS Benfold. And it was never clearer than in the case of a seemingly incompetent officer on probation.

The junior officer had been fired by one of Benfold's sister ships, and his commodore had asked Abrashoff to try to salvage the sailor. The man's name was Elliott, and Abrashoff soon discovered that he was a very gifted naval officer. Elliott could recite whole manuals and explain complex procedures, such as how to find enemy submarines. He was only 23 and barely out of the Naval Academy, yet he knew more than some of Abrashoff's department heads. Elliott had only one problem, but it was crucial: He had no self-confidence, and, as a result, attracted bullies like flies to honey. His previous shipmates had smelled blood and piled on, ridiculing him routinely. And as often happens, in response to being abused, Elliott began to abuse people below him. Finally the commander fired him.

Abrashoff was very blunt with Elliott, telling him that Benfold's crew members lived and worked by the Golden Rule. They trusted that everyone would be treated with dignity and respect, and they expected no less for and from him. No one would belittle him, and, of course, he must never ridicule others. It took time and nurturing to help him recognize his own strengths, but Elliott turned out to be one of Abrashoff's best officers. When it came to spotting and fighting submarines, for example, no one could match him. He eventually qualified as an officer of the deck, which retrieved his career. He also let Abrashoff send a crucial signal to the rest of the crew: "You may screw up, but we believe in comebacks. We won't give up on you. We'll help."

As Barack Obama put it to the Northwestern graduates, failure doesn't equal defeat. "The real test is not whether you avoid this failure, because you won't," he said. "It's whether you let it harden or shame you into inaction, or whether you learn from it; whether you choose to persevere."

Obama's three great lessons of leadership -- learning empathy, challenging yourself, and persevering through adversity -- should be engraved in stone wherever leaders learn and function. They are lessons for us all.

After receiving his B.A. degree in 1983, Obama worked for one year at Business International Corporation.[17] In 1985, he moved to Chicago to direct a non-profit project assisting local churches to organize job training programs for residents of poor neighborhoods.[18][19]

Obama entered Harvard Law School in 1988. In February 1990, the New York Times reported his election as the Harvard Law Review's "first black president in its 104-year history."[20] He obtained his J.D. degree magna cum laude from Harvard in 1991.[19] On returning to Chicago, Obama directed a voter registration drive, then worked for the civil rights law firm Miner, Barnhill & Galland, and taught constitutional law at the University of Chicago Law School from 1993 until his election to the U.S. Senate in 2004.[19]

Reviewing Obama's career in the Illinois Senate, a February 2007 article in the Washington Post noted his ability to work effectively with both Democrats and Republicans, and to build bipartisan coalitions. In his subsequent campaign for the U.S. Senate, Obama won the endorsement of the Illinois Fraternal Order of Police, whose officials cited his "longtime support of gun control measures and his willingness to negotiate compromises," despite his support for some bills that the police union had opposed.

Here ends my synopsis on leadership. One does not need a long political career to have led. You may lead on a variety of different issues and in a variety of different venues. You can be a leader in your home community, your work, your place of worship, and many other places. People like you are misguided because you confuse length of experience with leadership.

Just the absence of qualification is not, in itself, a qualification.

But, since you asked...
1. He recently said "let's allow our unions and their organizers to lift up this country's middle class again." This is BS. Unions do not raise the standards of living. All they can do is forbid employers from paying less than some negotiated amount. When that happens, some workers, who are perfectly capable, become unemployable because their productivity isn't worth their wages. Then, as Detroit has been doing, tens of thousands of union workers are laid off. The counterpoint to that is that Toyota USA has been hiring tens of thousands of non-union workers.

2. He thinks higher teacher pay is the answer to the abysmal failures of our education system, which is already far more expensive than the education provided in countries whose students have for decades consistently outperformed ours on international tests.

3. He is for making college "affordable," as if he has never considered that government subsidies push up tuition, just as government subsidies push up agricultural prices, the price of medical care and other prices.

Senator Obama is not unique among politicians who want to control prices, as if that is controlling the underlying reality behind the prices. For that reason, alone, he is unfit to lead the United States.

Did he say subsides or is that just you assuming again? I've learned your style of fighting the straw man quite quickly. First rule of debate: Argue only what is presented, not what you hope has been presented.

-snip-

I wasn't refering to his politics when I asked you why the lack of qualifications would make him unfit to lead America. What I meant was, does it make him unqualified to lead america just because he hasn't sat in the senate or whatever for a hundred years?

Did he say subsides or is that just you assuming again? I've learned your style of fighting the straw man quite quickly. First rule of debate: Argue only what is presented, not what you hope has been presented.

You need to read your candidate's PR statements.


Obama, D-Chicago, stopped in his hometown Monday for an announcement at the University of Illinois on Higher Education Opportunity through Pell Grant Expansion, or the HOPE Act. The measure seeks to raise the maximum award of federal Pell Grants from $4,050 to $5,100 this year, and beyond in subsequent years, by reducing the rate of return paid to banks and private lenders in interest on education loans.
...
The junior senator intends to pay for his proposed measure by closing loopholes banks and private lenders use to annually collect an additional $2 billion in taxpayer subsidies on top of the interest paid by students and families on loans.

The guy doesn't understand economics, plus he's a demagogue, therefore he's disqualified. But the cat fight between him and Hillary will be fun to watch.

Oh yeah, because I know you won't...http://obama.senate.gov/news/050329-obama_pushes_for_more_affordable_education/index.html

Just the absence of qualification is not, in itself, a qualification.

But, since you asked...
1. He recently said "let's allow our unions and their organizers to lift up this country's middle class again." This is BS. Unions do not raise the standards of living. All they can do is forbid employers from paying less than some negotiated amount. When that happens, some workers, who are perfectly capable, become unemployable because their productivity isn't worth their wages. Then, as Detroit has been doing, tens of thousands of union workers are laid off. The counterpoint to that is that Toyota USA has been hiring tens of thousands of non-union workers. We've been down this road before, you and I, and we'll wind up agreeing to disagree eventually, but I maintain that strong unions do raise standards of living, and that it's no coincidence that corporate profits are up and real wages are down in the years since Reagan de-nutted the NLRB.

2. He thinks higher teacher pay is the answer to the abysmal failures of our education system, which is already far more expensive than the education provided in countries whose students have for decades consistently outperformed ours on international tests.Higher teacher pay certainly wouldn't hurt the situation--right now, the only people who go into teaching are the ones with a sense of duty (who often burn out quickly) or the ones who can't do anything else. No offense to Education majors or teachers here, as there are always exceptions, but my worst college students, on average, have always been Ed majors. Even the football players snicker at them. Making the career more financially feasible could certainly lure a higher quality of student into the career.

But if I had my druthers, the key to fixing K-12 education would be reduced class size, and I'd recruit teachers from the college ranks by offering them free tuition in a state school in exchange for 2 years in the public school system post-graduation. Some of them will stick, and some will move on, but the kids will get a better education if there's no more than 12-15 in a classroom.

3. He is for making college "affordable," as if he has never considered that government subsidies push up tuition, just as government subsidies push up agricultural prices, the price of medical care and other prices.

Senator Obama is not unique among politicians who want to control prices, as if that is controlling the underlying reality behind the prices. For that reason, alone, he is unfit to lead the United States.
Making college affordable could mean increasing Pell Grants instead of price controls. When Pell Grants started, they covered nearly all tuition expenses for a standard university. Now they cover less than 40% of just tuition. And then if you have other systems like an expanded Americorps or the teacher program I mentioned above, that could make college affordable as well.

Higher teacher pay certainly wouldn't hurt the situation--right now, the only people who go into teaching are the ones with a sense of duty (who often burn out quickly) or the ones who can't do anything else. No offense to Education majors or teachers here, as there are always exceptions, but my worst college students, on average, have always been Ed majors. Even the football players snicker at them. Making the career more financially feasible could certainly lure a higher quality of student into the career.

But if I had my druthers, the key to fixing K-12 education would be reduced class size, and I'd recruit teachers from the college ranks by offering them free tuition in a state school in exchange for 2 years in the public school system post-graduation. Some of them will stick, and some will move on, but the kids will get a better education if there's no more than 12-15 in a classroom.


I'm not going to butt heads over unions, either. Nothing new to be said.

Now, as far as education goes, this is another area where the government has demoralized the teachers that are willing to leave industry and start a new career in education. There are so many federal regulations to be followed, so many local rules, and so few good administrators that will stand up to protesting parents, that NO amount of money can fix the problem. All that will happen is that better qualified teachers might take a little longer to become disillusioned with the process. Then we'll still be left with the bottom-feeders, union hacks, and the few really dedicated teachers that hang on in spite of it all.

In fact, if Obama had a hair on his ass, he'd be out there challenging the renewal of NCLB, for starters, not just repeating the mantra of "more money". In fact, that should be the battle cry of the Democratic party -- No More NCLB. I bet every teacher in the U.S. would vote for a Presidental candidate who preached that sermon, now.