NationStates Jolt Archive

Drip drip drip drip leak leak leak...

Scumbags, the whole lot.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wn_report/story/499053p-420743c.html

And this story comes from the Daily News (Fox Newscorp) so save your bias bullshit for someone who isn't on to your games.

The Bush administration is crawling with people who are willing to leak the name of a NOC agent working on WMD and counter-terrorism in the middle of a "war on terror." Why you ask? For political retribution of course and to crush anyone who dare counter their lies for war (Read IG report about them twisting, fabricating, and creating intel out of whole cloth). Yet some of you still defend these people as having integrity.

And this isn't par for the course over the past six years?

When will they be fired? They won't be. They'll stay in office until January 2009, at which time they'll either turn over the keys to the Democrats or they'll ove the new crew of Republicans in. But they won't be fired.

It bothers me, because I really wish that they'd be held accountable, but this is one of those cases--sadly, not rare--where the bad guys are going to get away with shit. Even if Scooter goes down in this trial, I'm expecting an appeal just long enough for Dubya to pardon him on his way out the door. And on my more cynical days, pre-emptive pardons for Cheney and all the rest.

Drip drip drip drip leak leak leak...

Scumbags, the whole lot.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wn_report/story/499053p-420743c.html

And this story comes from the Daily News (Fox Newscorp) so save your bias bullshit for someone who isn't on to your games.

The Bush administration is crawling with people who are willing to leak the name of a NOC agent working on WMD and counter-terrorism in the middle of a "war on terror." Why you ask? For political retribution of course and to crush anyone who dare counter their lies for war (Read IG report about them twisting, fabricating, and creating intel out of whole cloth). Yet some of you still defend these people as having integrity.

1) the NOC agent leak from the Bush administration has not been 100% proven yet.

2) The administration is leaving office in 2009

When will they be fired? They won't be. They'll stay in office until January 2009, at which time they'll either turn over the keys to the Democrats or they'll ove the new crew of Republicans in. But they won't be fired.

It bothers me, because I really wish that they'd be held accountable, but this is one of those cases--sadly, not rare--where the bad guys are going to get away with shit. Even if Scooter goes down in this trial, I'm expecting an appeal just long enough for Dubya to pardon him on his way out the door. And on my more cynical days, pre-emptive pardons for Cheney and all the rest.

Your system really is scary most of the time nowadays. No accountability for the highest echelons, and no legal recourse for the lowest (see Guantanamo). It's like a caricature of a travesty of a legal system. For shame.

1) the NOC agent leak from the Bush administration has not been 100% proven yet.
Yes it has been. She was absolutely NOC, and she was absolutely outed. See, here's the thing--and I know I've explained this to you in the past, but I'll try it again: The very first step in this whole matter was the CIA referring the matter to Justice in order to see if a crime had been committed. Not to see wh had committed it, but whether or not a crime had been committed.

That's significant, so I'll let it sink in for a second.

If no crime had been committed, i.e. had Plame not been NOC, this never would have gone any farther. There never would have been an investigation during which Libby would have lied to investigators and subsequently found himself on trial for perjury and obstruction. Nothing happens unless a crime has been committed.

But just because a crime has been committed doesn't mean that someone will be charged with it. After all, crimes go unsolved all the time--doesn't change the fact that those crimes were committed.

So for the last time (hopefully)--Plame was NOC and outed. Otherwise, there would have been no investigation into who outed her.

Your system really is scary most of the time nowadays. No accountability for the highest echelons, and no legal recourse for the lowest (see Guantanamo). It's like a caricature of a travesty of a legal system. For shame.

It is, and I wish I had confidence that it would undergo major change in the next couple of years. Let's just say I'm keeping my options open for teh near future.

Yes it has been. She was absolutely NOC, and she was absolutely outed. See, here's the thing--and I know I've explained this to you in the past, but I'll try it again: The very first step in this whole matter was the CIA referring the matter to Justice in order to see if a crime had been committed. Not to see wh had committed it, but whether or not a crime had been committed.

That's significant, so I'll let it sink in for a second.

If no crime had been committed, i.e. had Plame not been NOC, this never would have gone any farther. There never would have been an investigation during which Libby would have lied to investigators and subsequently found himself on trial for perjury and obstruction. Nothing happens unless a crime has been committed.

But just because a crime has been committed doesn't mean that someone will be charged with it. After all, crimes go unsolved all the time--doesn't change the fact that those crimes were committed.

So for the last time (hopefully)--Plame was NOC and outed. Otherwise, there would have been no investigation into who outed her.

Nazz, we all know AC is a hack. We know she was a NOC and we know a crime was committed. Otherwise there would have never been an investigation and a trial about who covered up the original crime now would we. Try to use circular logic AC, it helps. HACK!

Yes it has been. She was absolutely NOC, and she was absolutely outed. See, here's the thing--and I know I've explained this to you in the past, but I'll try it again: The very first step in this whole matter was the CIA referring the matter to Justice in order to see if a crime had been committed. Not to see wh had committed it, but whether or not a crime had been committed.

I'm not saying she was not outed. She most definitely was outed. That is not in dispute.

That's significant, so I'll let it sink in for a second.

If no crime had been committed, i.e. had Plame not been NOC, this never would have gone any farther. There never would have been an investigation during which Libby would have lied to investigators and subsequently found himself on trial for perjury and obstruction. Nothing happens unless a crime has been committed.

So he perjured himself which was rather stupid but does not implicit guilt on the part of the Administration. You can't do guilt by association. If that was the way it was done then half this country would be in a jail cell.

But just because a crime has been committed doesn't mean that someone will be charged with it. After all, crimes go unsolved all the time--doesn't change the fact that those crimes were committed.

yep but just because Libby lied to investigators does not mean that he outed the name. Purgery is just lying under oath. Does not necessarily mean he actually did it. He just gave false testimony and I hope he gets sent up the river for it.

So for the last time (hopefully)--Plame was NOC and outed. Otherwise, there would have been no investigation into who outed her.

Not disputing that she was outed, I'm disputing the fact that Bush and co. did it.

What we need is a 21st century Deep Throat. The kind that uprooted Nixon and his brethren. Of course, anonymous sources are frowned upon now, :rolleyes: so we have no hope. If they're hadn't been such a big deal made over sources, we might have been able to have a whistleblower come forth and give the public a much needed hefty dose of reality.

Nazz, we all know AC is a hack. We know she was a NOC and we know a crime was committed. Otherwise there would have never been an investigation and a trial about who covered up the original crime now would we. Try to use circular logic AC, it helps. HACK!

A hack eh? I do not follow this president. I disagree with some of his policies. I have criticized those same policies publicly.

What we need is a 21st century Deep Throat. The kind that uprooted Nixon and his brethren. Of course, anonymous sources are frowned upon now, :rolleyes: so we have no hope. If they're hadn't been such a big deal made over sources, we might have been able to have a whistleblower come forth and give the public a much needed hefty dose of reality.

I agree 100%

Not disputing that she was outed, I'm disputing the fact that Bush and co. did it.
You said "1) the NOC agent leak from the Bush administration has not been 100% proven yet." Now you're crawfishing around trying to back out of it. Fine. But you left yourself in an even more untenable position--if the Bush administration didn't out her, who did? CIA?

Sorry, but it's the Bush administration. So far in the Libby trial, it's been testified that Plame's identity was leaked by Armitage, Rove, Libby, and Fleischer, and that Cheney was directing the whole thing. Now, it may not result in any of them ever being charged, but the testimony is out there, so to deny that the Bush administration outed Plame is to deny reality.

Of course, you're good at that, Corny. It's your strongest suit.

I'm not saying she was not outed. She most definitely was outed. That is not in dispute.

That's significant, so I'll let it sink in for a second.



So he perjured himself which was rather stupid but does not implicit guilt on the part of the Administration. You can't do guilt by association. If that was the way it was done then half this country would be in a jail cell.



yep but just because Libby lied to investigators does not mean that he outed the name. Purgery is just lying under oath. Does not necessarily mean he actually did it. He just gave false testimony and I hope he gets sent up the river for it.



Not disputing that she was outed, I'm disputing the fact that Bush and co. did it.

No, we already know that Richard Armitage leaked her name. He has admitted (after Libby got slammed) that he leaked her name to Novak, although he said it was unintentional. Dick Cheney also leaked the name to Judith Miller, Bob Novak, and Matt Cooper, this information is not up for debate. The only one debating whether or That is not in dispute. No one here said Libby leaked her name, they said her name was leaked. The article I provided listed many members who leaked the information to the press. My question is, "when will these people be fired." Keep parsing language thinking you're cute but the rest of us can cut through the BS.


http://thinkprogress.org/leak-scandal

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8445696/site/newsweek/

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11179719/site/newsweek/

http://www.hillnews.com/marshall/010704.aspx

Now cut the crap hack.

Drip drip drip drip leak leak leak...

Scumbags, the whole lot.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wn_report/story/499053p-420743c.html

And this story comes from the Daily News (Fox Newscorp) so save your bias bullshit for someone who isn't on to your games.

The Bush administration is crawling with people who are willing to leak the name of a NOC agent working on WMD and counter-terrorism in the middle of a "war on terror." Why you ask? For political retribution of course and to crush anyone who dare counter their lies for war (Read IG report about them twisting, fabricating, and creating intel out of whole cloth). Yet some of you still defend these people as having integrity.

Don't be ridiculous. Bush is sacking plenty of people (http://www.mydd.com/story/2007/2/20/21516/3120).

I wonder what they could have done to deserve such a thing. Oh, well... I guess we'll just have to trust his judgment.

When will they be fired from a cannon? Soon I hope.

As far as I'm concerned, this is just short of treason, especially because of the nature of the work Plame was doing. It is conceivable that Plame could have been working on a case to retrieve nuklear materials, which will now be made into a small nuke and detonated in our borders. Of course, we won't know for many years (if ever) exactly what Plame might have been working on. Not only could they have gotten her killed, they may have endangered this country.

Don't be ridiculous. Bush is sacking plenty of people (http://www.mydd.com/story/2007/2/20/21516/3120).

I wonder what they could have done to deserve such a thing. Oh, well... I guess we'll just have to trust his judgment.

Yeah, we don't want anyone actually looking into their sticking their dicks in the mashed potatoes. The more he "does" the more he undoes.

Your system really is scary most of the time nowadays. No accountability for the highest echelons, and no legal recourse for the lowest (see Guantanamo). It's like a caricature of a travesty of a legal system. For shame.

isnt it though? i dont know what we are going to do to fix this, to restore the rule of law, to get back to some semblance of respecting human rights here and around the world, to rebuild our friendships that have been bruised or shattered by the current adiministration.

its a huge job and we need to not just be better but to actually stop what we have been doing since even before this administration came into office.

i dont like it when people diss the united states as a force for evil in the world and i have to agree with them.

isnt it though? i dont know what we are going to do to fix this, to restore the rule of law, to get back to some semblance of respecting human rights here and around the world, to rebuild our friendships that have been bruised or shattered by the current adiministration.

its a huge job and we need to not just be better but to actually stop what we have been doing since even before this administration came into office.

i dont like it when people diss the united states as a force for evil in the world and i have to agree with them.

hopefully 2009, oh please God please!

hopefully 2009, oh please God please!

you know its bad when my sister who at 57 has only voted in the past few presidential election, keeps telling me that we need to get involved and work to get someone reasonable elected next time. even she cant stand what is happening to this country.

you know its bad when my sister who at 57 has only voted in the past few presidential election, keeps telling me that we need to get involved and work to get someone reasonable elected next time. even she cant stand what is happening to this country.

It took almost 100 years for the US government to be reformed last time around. Most of the 19th century was shaped by grassroots movements demanding reform on a variety of issues, now defined as "progressive," but they got nowhere in public policy until the advent of "muckraking" journalism, which exposed in very graphic terms the rampant corruption of government at all levels. It took years and years for such reports, combined with obvious government abuses, to have an affect. And what was that affect? Not elections, not letters to editors. Often it was in the form of mass demonstrations and even riots, some bordering on acts of insurrection. But, as I said, it took most of the 19th century for the messages to get through, first to the people and then to the government. Actual reform did not happen until the beginning of the 20th century. It is not as easy as just waiting for the next election.

Two movie lines come to mind:

"People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people." -- V for Vendetta.

"A riot is an ugly thing, and I think it is about time that we had one." -- Young Frankenstein.

I don't advocate public violence, but the fact is that nothing will change until "We the People" change it. Our way of doing that is by CLEARLY expressing our displeasure and by demanding INDEPENDENT reports of what our government is doing. It will be by us remembering that, in a nation of the self-governed, WE run things. Our government does not "rule" or "lead" us -- it works for us, and it is failing, and it should be fired and replaced.

Years ago, I can't remember if it was during Clinton's or Bush I's admin, the economy was doing badly, and Congress was about to vote itself yet another pay raise while US workers at all levels were being laid off by the tens of thousands. Some radio stations started a mail-in campaign in which citizens mailed teabags to their Congresspeople, as a reminder of the Boston Tea Party and the principle of "no taxation without representation." Apparently, thousands of teabags were mailed to Congressional offices, and the pay raise did not go through that year.

That's what gets results. Action. Not waiting and wondering when, oh when, these corrupt bastards will start caring about us.

I do not follow this president. I disagree with some of his policies. I have criticized those same policies publicly.

And if your life partner worked for the CIA, rest assured they'd be outed for that.