NationStates Jolt Archive

The Bohemian Grove is an all male campground where Presidents, leaders of industry, media, and
corporations all meet. It could possibly be the biggest gathering of the most powerful men in the United States. In itself, this could be said to be "conflict of interest", but what is more unusual are the rituals that did and supposedly continue to take place there. This is what many conspiracy theories center around, but the existence of the Bohemian Grove is no secret.

One may say the Bohemian Grove is just simply another old boys club, but the fact it is a weeklong meeting of some of the most powerful men in politics and industry lends to the fact that the United State's power elite are much more united than one might think.

It is also funny that the nation's leaders that profess to be Christian would participate in these play pagan rituals, since some of the rituals are based off paganism (Of which I have no problem with, I love Pan) but the Owl ceremony is obviously pagan but interesting indeed.

So what do you think? Is the National Geographic just blatantly wrong in this, and all the people who observe these men going here. Why does the Media never report on this power meeting?
Wikipedia on Bohemian Grove
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohemian_Grove

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c193/athell/Bohemian.jpg

National Geographic Picture from http://magma.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/bestvintage/photogallery_02.html
Power Party
Photograph by Gabriel Moulin, 1915

"To purge himself of worldly concerns, a member of the elite Bohemian Club participated in a 1915 Cremation of Care ceremony—complete with candles and a robed and hooded comrade to guide him. This private club of influential men still meets annually north of San Francisco and uses this symbolic ritual to kick off its summer retreat. But today the ceremony involves burning a mummy-like effigy named Care at the foot of the group’s mascot: a 40-foot-tall (12-meter-tall) concrete owl." (From National Geographic Website)





Taken from the Bohemian Grove Action Network
What is the Bohemian Grove?
The Bohemian Grove is a 2700 acre redwood forest, located in Monte Rio, CA. It contains accommodation for 2000 people to "camp" in luxury. It is owned by the Bohemian Club.

What is the Bohemian Club?
The Bohemian Club is a private. all male club, which is headquartered in the Bohemian building in San Francisco. It was formed in 1872 by men who sought shelter from the frontier culture (or lack of culture).

Who are the present members?
The Club has evolved into an association of rich and powerful men, mostly of this country (there are similar organizations in other countries). Some artists are allowed to join (often at reduced rates), because of their social status and entertainment value. The membership list has included every Republican U.S. president (as well as some Democrats) since 1923, many cabinet officials, and director; & CEO's of large corporations, including major financial institutions.

What industries are represented among the members?
Major military contractors, oil companies, banks (including the Federal Reserve), utilities (including nuclear power), and national media (broadcast and print) have high-ranking officials as club members or guests. Many members are, or have been, on the board of directors of several of these corporations. You should note that most of the above industries depend heavily on a relationship with government for their profitability.

The members stay in different camps at the Grove, which have varying status levels. Members & frequent guests of the most prestigious camp (Mandalay) include: Henry Kissinger, George Shultz, S. D. Bechtel, Jr., Thomas Watson Jr. (IBM), Phillip Hawley (B of A), William Casey (CIA). and Ralph Bailey (Dupont). George Bush resides in a less prestigious camp (Hillbillies) with A. W. Clausen (World Bank), Walter Cronkite, and William F. Buckley.


Articles on the Bohemian Grove:
http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1489
http://www.sonomacountyfreepress.com.../bohoindx.html


The Cremation of Care Ritual (From Wikipedia)
The Cremation of Care was devised in 1893 by a member named Joseph D. Redding, a lawyer from New York. During the ceremony, which serves as the opening to the Grove encampment, a mock human sacrifice representing "dull care" is cremated to symbolize the liberation of the participants.

Today, the ritual consists of hooded members accepting the effigy representing "dull care" from a ferryman traveling across a creek. Music and fireworks accompany the ritual, for dramatic effect. The mock human sacrifice is placed on an altar and set on fire. The ritual represents the act of embracing the revelry of Bohemian Grove while setting aside the "dull cares" of the outside world.

The ceremony takes place next to a 45-foot (15 m) high concrete owl statue. During the ceremony, audio plays through nearby speakers providing the illusion of a speaking statue. The voice of the former-newsman Walter Cronkite, a member of the Bohemian Club, is used as the voice of The Owl during the ceremony.

The ceremony involves the poling of a small boat across a lake containing an effigy of Care. Contrary to rumor, Care is not a child. Although "dead", Care has a speaking part and a deep voice. As suggested by the title, Care is eventually burned under the Owl statue towards the end of ceremony. This cremation symbolizes that within the Bohemian Grove members leave the care of the outside world. Contrary to rumor, no parts of the script contain reference to prisoners of the Druids representing enemy tribes such as the Gauls and Celts.

G.W. Domhoff, a sociologist, was able to obtain an unusual amount of access to the Bohemian Club's records and membership and was able to thoroughly research the group because of this. He was able to detail the Cremation of Care ceremony, along with the High and Low Jinx and other ceremonies and plays of the Club.

The ceremony is meant to represent the destruction or burning of worldly concern. Alex Jones infiltrated the Bohemian Grove in 2000 and filmed the final portion of the ceremony for his film Dark Secrets: Inside Bohemian Grove. The grove and Jones' investigation were also covered by Jon Ronson in Channel 4's four-part documentary, Secret Rulers of the World.

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c193/athell/Owl03.jpg
The Owl at the Bohemian Grove (presumably picture taken by a worker there in the off months)

Wikipedia on Bohemian Grove
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohemian_Grove

Nice way to MAKE THE FUCKING THREAD OVER INSTEAD OF JUST BUMPING THE OTHER ONE!


Ahem. Anyway.

EDIT: Never mind. It was locked.

Nice way to MAKE THE FUCKING THREAD OVER INSTEAD OF JUST BUMPING THE OTHER ONE!


Ahem. Anyway.

I had to make the thread over, it was CLOSED by a MODERATOR for it being "old"

HotRodia: "Let's leave ancient threads in the General Graveyard where they belong." (On Old Thread)

I had to make the thread over, it was CLOSED by a MODERATOR for it being “old”
Hence suggesting that it’s not a subject folk find interesting?

Though I think all caps is a bit harsh Zarakon.

Hence suggesting that it’s not a subject folk find interesting?

Though I think all caps is a bit harsh Zarakon.

There are a lot of subjects folks don't find interesting posted on General that don't get closed by a Moderator, it was just because it was an old thread and I was advised to create a new one I believe.

'Bilderber....*uck*'

This is different than the Bilderbergs though, quiet different, and is unofficial and not even announced.

Though like that, you can go to the edge of the campgrounds and see where it is.

This is different than the Bilderbergs though, quiet different, and is unofficial and not even announced.

Though like that, you can go to the edge of the campgrounds and see where it is.

If you are President of a country that relies on industry would you not be remiss in not meeting with the leaders of industry?

Its a shame that Jon Ronson and Alex Jones are now equated. Ronson is an excellent documentary filmmaker; probably my second favourite after the excellent Adam Curtis.

Ronson’s last series, Crazy Ruler’s of the World, and the accompanying book, The Men Who Stare At Goats, are both fascinating and illuminating.

Operation Jedi, now there’s a cool story.

Alex Jones, OTOH, wanders off to the land of nonsense too often for my liking. Though it’s the same harmless nonsense that Art Bell and the like talk about.

If you are President of a country that relies on industry would you not be remiss in not meeting with the leaders of industry?
Heh, I believe Peter Mandleson has attended Bilderberg meetings. Not exactly the first person who comes to mind when you think about NWO/Illuminati/Shape-changing lizards.

Its a shame that Jon Ronson and Alex Jones are now equated. Ronson is an excellent documentary filmmaker; probably my second favourite after the excellent Adam Curtis.

Ronson’s last series, Crazy Ruler’s of the World, and the accompanying book, The Men Who Stare At Goats, are both fascinating and illuminating.

Operation Jedi, now there’s a cool story.

Alex Jones, OTOH, wanders off to the land of nonsense too often for my liking. Though it’s the same harmless nonsense that Art Bell and the like talk about.

Have not actually looked at Ronson's documentary, Alex Jones seems to be a typical sensationalist with showman-like flair who does it for either fun or cash.

For the record I do not believe in Alex Jones, David Icke theories, all that.

Despite everything, just based on the basic research of the Bohemian Grove, I do not like "it" and think it is only one of the many signs of the corruption of government and how united our elite really are.

How do you get in to this club? I think I'd have a place there..getting a chance to meet the upper echelons of politics and industry and networking my way in to positions of power behind these public figures.

Lol according to Wikipedia it is at 20601 Bohemian Avenue, in Monte Rio, California.

I guess what shocks me is its one of the biggest Power Pow Wows in the United States and very few people know about it at all.

Have not actually looked at Ronson’s documentary, Alex Jones seems to be a typical sensationalist with showman-like flair who does it for either fun or cash.

For the record I do not believe in Alex Jones, David Icke theories, all that.

Despite everything, just based on the basic research of the Bohemian Grove, I do not like “it” and think it is only one of the many signs of the corruption of government and how united our elite really are.
I urge you to watch Crazy Rulers of the World. It’s a fascinating insight into the unchecked military industrial complex of the US, and the impact it has had on soldiers and civilian’s within and without the US.

Ronson documents certain members of the American armed forces who, after the defeat of Vietnam, were encouraged to bring ideas to the ears of the top brass to reinvigorate the army. Many were influenced by the New Age movement, and a black ops unit was set up, codename Operation Jedi. Members of the group learned how to become virtually invisible, heighten their sense of perception to extraordinary degrees, and some even attempted to walk through walls and perfect the art of killing a living thing merely by staring at it’s eyes.

Most fascinating, it appears that the group, and others like it is still on the go. The Bush administration has pumped funding into seemingly wacky and bizarre initiatives; including a psychological warfare group currently working in Iraq. You may have heard reports of Barney the Dinosaur theme tune being played at suspected terrorists for 24 hours a day, at days at a time. The group also operated at Waco, seemingly without any restraint or guiding hand, playing disturbing noises over massive PA systems.

Very strange and interesting stuff. What’s best is that Ronson never goes down the route of Icke, Jones et all. He sticks firmly to what can be substantiated, while never resorting the lazy Illuminati/Lizard overlords guff. This makes the story darker and more frightening; either these wacky methods actually work, or there are some very weird dudes playing with the US military’s hundreds of billions of dollars.

How do you get in to this club? I think I'd have a place there..getting a chance to meet the upper echelons of politics and industry and networking my way in to positions of power behind these public figures.

My grandfather is in it, actually. Funny thing too I suppose, since politically he could best be described as somewhere in between Social Democrat and Democratic Socialist. He's in the Aviary camp, which is where their Chorus stays. They have several musical ensembles, the Orchestra (which stays at the Tunerville camp), Band and Jinx Band (Jazz band). All of which are very, very good. Going to socialize and sing is the main reason my grandpa goes, I think.

As for the funny rituals, they're partly tongue in cheek. At the time it was founded, you had all sorts of men's clubs being active. The Elks' Lodge, the Eagles, the Oddfellows, the Knights of Colombus and of course the Masons, though much older, were quite popular. The Cremation of Care is basically making fun of the Freemasons. "Dull Care" is work, responsibility and the hum drum of every day life. The Grove's whole point is to get away from that. To a certain extent, the Boho's seem amused at all the conspiracy theories about them, and I think they like the fact that it gets their name out, so as to possibly attract new members (like must of the aforementioned lodges, most of their members are kinda old) and scares others away.

To get in, someone has to sponsor you basically. I'm still not sure how my grandfather got in, since at the time he was accepted he was not the least bit rich. Probably because of his singing experience I guess. His best friend in it is a retired art museum curator.

My grandfather is in it, actually. Funny thing too I suppose, since politically he could best be described as somewhere in between Social Democrat and Democratic Socialist. He's in the Aviary camp, which is where their Chorus stays. They have several musical ensembles, the Orchestra (which stays at the Tunerville camp), Band and Jinx Band (Jazz band). All of which are very, very good. Going to socialize and sing is the main reason my grandpa goes, I think.

As for the funny rituals, they're partly tongue in cheek. At the time it was founded, you had all sorts of men's clubs being active. The Elks' Lodge, the Eagles, the Oddfellows, the Knights of Colombus and of course the Masons, though much older, were quite popular. The Cremation of Care is basically making fun of the Freemasons. "Dull Care" is work, responsibility and the hum drum of every day life. The Grove's whole point is to get away from that. To a certain extent, the Boho's seem amused at all the conspiracy theories about them, and I think they like the fact that it gets their name out, so as to possibly attract new members (like must of the aforementioned lodges, most of their members are kinda old) and scares others away.

To get in, someone has to sponsor you basically. I'm still not sure how my grandfather got in, since at the time he was accepted he was not the least bit rich. Probably because of his singing experience I guess. His best friend in it is a retired art museum curator.


Ahhh, interesting story! For me it is more of an interest in all the powerful people that go and mingle there along with the fact that they are from politics and industry and media all mingling together.

I still think there is a darker side to the Bohemian Grove, not so much in a conspiracy theory sense though. Though it is a large campground and event, not to say your grandfather is involved in anything.

From the looks of the pictures and what I read I am not sure their simply funny rituals, they have symbolic meaning as well it seems though perhaps thats all it is.

I still look at the fact all these big names are mingling together, imagine how many deals go down either in the camp or outside the camp that influence our nation.

Callisdrun’s grandpa is a lizard!!! Pull of his mask!!!

ROFL

<snip>
Callisdrun’s grandpa is a lizard!!! Pull of his mask!!!

Callisdrun’s grandpa is a lizard!!! Pull of his mask!!!

Well, if by Lizard you mean vocal atheist...

But yeah, I've not been to the Grove during their big event but for smaller weekends I have. You leave your car in a parking lot at the front and get around the camp either by foot or these small buses they have running around. They seem to do mainly drinking. Same with their place in San Francisco. What's happened both times is some drinking, meal, various performances, and more drinking.

But yeah, I’ve not been to the Grove during their big event but for smaller weekends I have. You leave your car in a parking lot at the front and get around the camp either by foot or these small buses they have running around. They seem to do mainly drinking. Same with their place in San Francisco. What’s happened both times is some drinking, meal, various performances, and more drinking.
Sounds like fun!

Like many mistruths, governments and international institutions around the world are keen to pull the veneer of supernatural or mystical forces over their secretive projects. Be it testing of sensitive military aircraft masquerading as flying saucers, or meetings between financial leaders and governmental ministers appearing as bizarre Illuminati-esque ceremonies.

It helps when people such as Jones or Icke start shouting, “OMG!!! ITZ TEH LIZARDZ!!!1111”; most people tend to ignore whackos, and thus ignore the truths behind the lies. Truths which are as interesting as little green men or secret societies. For example, I don’t believe for one minute that the entire world is controlled by a small cabal of shape-changing lizards. However, I do believe that there are very influential people, most old white men, most financiers or bright government ministers, who meet regularly to discuss business opportunities and shared directions.

They’re called the G8, WTO, World Bank etc.

We’re missing the woods for the trees.

Sounds like fun!

Like many mistruths, governments and international institutions around the world are keen to pull the veneer of supernatural or mystical forces over their secretive projects. Be it testing of sensitive military aircraft masquerading as flying saucers, or meetings between financial leaders and governmental ministers appearing as bizarre Illuminati-esque ceremonies.

It helps when people such as Jones or Icke start shouting, “OMG!!! ITZ TEH LIZARDZ!!!1111”; most people tend to ignore whackos, and thus ignore the truths behind the lies. Truths which are as interesting as little green men or secret societies. For example, I don’t believe for one minute that the entire world is controlled by a small cabal of shape-changing lizards. However, I do believe that there are very influential people, most old white men, most financiers or bright government ministers, who meet regularly to discuss business opportunities and shared directions.

They’re called the G8, WTO, World Bank etc.

We’re missing the woods for the trees.


Precisely. Rich old white men don't need to have a secret society to scheme. They already do it in the open.

Sounds like fun!

Like many mistruths, governments and international institutions around the world are keen to pull the veneer of supernatural or mystical forces over their secretive projects. Be it testing of sensitive military aircraft masquerading as flying saucers, or meetings between financial leaders and governmental ministers appearing as bizarre Illuminati-esque ceremonies.

It helps when people such as Jones or Icke start shouting, “OMG!!! ITZ TEH LIZARDZ!!!1111”; most people tend to ignore whackos, and thus ignore the truths behind the lies. Truths which are as interesting as little green men or secret societies. For example, I don’t believe for one minute that the entire world is controlled by a small cabal of shape-changing lizards. However, I do believe that there are very influential people, most old white men, most financiers or bright government ministers, who meet regularly to discuss business opportunities and shared directions.

They’re called the G8, WTO, World Bank etc.

We’re missing the woods for the trees.

I totally agree, everyone dismisses my comments on what is wrong with having two Skull & Bones for Presidential Candidates at once (Bush and Kerry) and President Bush appointing 11 S&Bs to his cabinet as "tinfoil hat" or "tinfoil hat" this.

Well it is just blatant old boys clubs, that I do feel dominate the world or at least the Western world but I do not feel their all bright or talented necessarily.

In the words of Alex Jones, who infiltrated the grove:

"This is how they want us, they want us serfs out there, UUUOHHWWW like your serfs over in britain, my people, that left to get away from it, eating little turnips and little onions they grew, and they're a foot and a half shorter than the noblemen with their teeth hanging out, UUUWWWW, and the noblemen ride by on their horse and say UUUHHHHHHHHHHNNN, that is THEIR PLEASURE!! THEIR PLEASURE!!!!

Well i'm not gonna give them their pleasure, i'm gonna stick a gun in their mouth and see how they LIKE IT, CUZ IM FREE! And its been in my family history to FIGHT! and i'm not your SLAVE, so get it STRAIGHT, we're ready you can nerve gas us all daayyyyyy! and the people are waking up!! some of us are ready to spill our BLOODDD!!! For the SACRIFICE! You hear me scum? We're coming for you!




http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=867567360122634646&q=satanic+shadowy+elite

My favorite video currently online, Jon Ronson is a great man.

In the words of Alex Jones, who infiltrated the grove:

"This is how they want us, they want us serfs out there, UUUOHHWWW like your serfs over in britain, my people, that left to get away from it, eating little turnips and little onions they grew, and they're a foot and a half shorter than the noblemen with their teeth hanging out, UUUWWWW, and the noblemen ride by on their horse and say UUUHHHHHHHHHHNNN, that is THEIR PLEASURE!! THEIR PLEASURE!!!!

Well i'm not gonna give them their pleasure, i'm gonna stick a gun in their mouth and see how they LIKE IT, CUZ IM FREE! And its been in my family history to FIGHT! and i'm not your SLAVE, so get it STRAIGHT, we're ready you can nerve gas us all daayyyyyy! and the people are waking up!! some of us are ready to spill our BLOODDD!!! For the SACRIFICE! You hear me scum? We're coming for you!




http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=867567360122634646&q=satanic+shadowy+elite

My favorite video currently online, Jon Ronson is a great man.

Yea I admit Alex is DUMB. Though I did not find out about the Bohemian Grove on his site and I don't even look at it.

I urge you to watch Crazy Rulers of the World. It’s a fascinating insight into the unchecked military industrial complex of the US, and the impact it has had on soldiers and civilian’s within and without the US.

Ronson documents certain members of the American armed forces who, after the defeat of Vietnam, were encouraged to bring ideas to the ears of the top brass to reinvigorate the army. Many were influenced by the New Age movement, and a black ops unit was set up, codename Operation Jedi. Members of the group learned how to become virtually invisible, heighten their sense of perception to extraordinary degrees, and some even attempted to walk through walls and perfect the art of killing a living thing merely by staring at it’s eyes.

Most fascinating, it appears that the group, and others like it is still on the go. The Bush administration has pumped funding into seemingly wacky and bizarre initiatives; including a psychological warfare group currently working in Iraq. You may have heard reports of Barney the Dinosaur theme tune being played at suspected terrorists for 24 hours a day, at days at a time. The group also operated at Waco, seemingly without any restraint or guiding hand, playing disturbing noises over massive PA systems.

Very strange and interesting stuff. What’s best is that Ronson never goes down the route of Icke, Jones et all. He sticks firmly to what can be substantiated, while never resorting the lazy Illuminati/Lizard overlords guff. This makes the story darker and more frightening; either these wacky methods actually work, or there are some very weird dudes playing with the US military’s hundreds of billions of dollars.

There is nothing sinister or new about PSYOP teams, they've been around for years and you can read their field manuals online if you get that bored.

There is nothing sinister or new about PSYOP teams, they’ve been around for years and you can read their field manuals online if you get that bored.
I never said that PSYOP was a new organisation; Ronson documents them back to at least the 70’s. It’s sister groups of PSYOP’s that are the most interesting, and which have strange and one could say sinister stories attached to them; Operation Jedi for one.

And anyways, experimenting psychological warfare at Waco, Abu Grahib and Guantanamo Bay is what I’d call sinister.

Hence suggesting that it’s not a subject folk find interesting?

What're you on about?
TRA would've kept those embers going for several pages. All a matter of style, really.

I never said that PSYOP was a new organisation; Ronson documents them back to at least the 70’s. It’s sister groups of PSYOP’s that are the most interesting, and which have strange and one could say sinister stories attached to them; Operation Jedi for one.

And anyways, experimenting psychological warfare at Waco, Abu Grahib and Guantanamo Bay is what I’d call sinister.

And you'd be wrong. Playing loud music and/or sounds through a loudspeaker is a common tactic in hostage/barricaded suspect situations. It keeps them awake and makes their resistance less effective if/when you move against them. PSYOP teams attempted to use loud rock music to force Noriega out of the Vatican embassy years before Waco (there are other theories about that though). Abu Ghraib wasn't a PSYOP operation, it was prisoner abuse by a bunch of dumbass MPs who lacked the training and apparently the good sense to run a prison, the Army should have brought in real prison guards and that mess would have never happened. Also I've yet to see any allegations of PSYOP "experiments" at Guantanamo Bay. Questions about the legality of the facility and about some of the interrogation tactics used, yes but nothing about PSYOP.

Do you have anything besides some loony filmmaker's "documentary" about nefarious plots and secret projects to back up these claims?

And you’d be wrong. Playing loud music and/or sounds through a loudspeaker is a common tactic in hostage/barricaded suspect situations. It keeps them awake and makes their resistance less effective if/when you move against them. PSYOP teams attempted to use loud rock music to force Noriega out of the Vatican embassy years before Waco (there are other theories about that though). Abu Ghraib wasn’t a PSYOP operation, it was prisoner abuse by a bunch of dumbass MPs who lacked the training and apparently the good sense to run a prison, the Army should have brought in real prison guards and that mess would have never happened. Also I’ve yet to see any allegations of PSYOP “experiments” at Guantanamo Bay. Questions about the legality of the facility and about some of the interrogation tactics used, yes but nothing about PSYOP.

Do you have anything besides some loony filmmaker’s “documentary” about nefarious plots and secret projects to back up these claims?
Jon Ronson can not reasonably be called a ‘loony’; you’ve obviously never seen a documentary by him if you think so. Wikipedia has an informative page on hime here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Ronson) if you wish to peruse. I’d recommend checking on Ronson’s own site, linked at the bottom of the page. He’s well respected, methodical, and an established journalist in Britain. Try informing yourself before flatly rejecting something.

Here (http://educate-yourself.org/cn/guantanamotorturers22aug05.shtml) is an extract from Ronson’s highly acclaimed book, The Men Who Stare At Goats, with your desired alleged PSYOP operations at Guantanamo. Here (http://books.guardian.co.uk/reviews/politicsphilosophyandsociety/0,6121,1355882,00.html) is a review of the book. And here (http://ejmas.com/jnc/jncart_channon_0200.htm) is the handbook for the First Earth Battalion, a precursor to Project Jedi.

In fact, Ronson’s documentaries and books are much a study of the extremist conspiracy theorists, the actual ‘loonies’, and their intense desire to blame something more than human greed and power-abuse for the wrongs of the world. Hence his extremely informative examination of Icke’s dogged belief in shape-changing lizards in David Icke, Lizards and Jews, and Jones’ fanaticism over the supposed occult rituals of world leaders in The Satanic Shadowy Elite.

However, if you still have all that prejudice to deal with, maybe the ‘loonies’ at the BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3042907.stm) or the Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,959538,00.html) could help out.

Jon Ronson can not reasonably be called a ‘loony’; you’ve obviously never seen a documentary by him if you think so. Wikipedia has an informative page on hime here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Ronson) if you wish to peruse. I’d recommend checking on Ronson’s own site, linked at the bottom of the page. He’s well respected, methodical, and an established journalist in Britain. Try informing yourself before flatly rejecting something.

Here (http://educate-yourself.org/cn/guantanamotorturers22aug05.shtml) is an extract from Ronson’s highly acclaimed book, The Men Who Stare At Goats, with your desired alleged PSYOP operations at Guantanamo. Here (http://books.guardian.co.uk/reviews/politicsphilosophyandsociety/0,6121,1355882,00.html) is a review of the book. And here (http://ejmas.com/jnc/jncart_channon_0200.htm) is the handbook for the First Earth Battalion, a precursor to Project Jedi.

In fact, Ronson’s documentaries and books are much a study of the extremist conspiracy theorists, the actual ‘loonies’, and their intense desire to blame something more than human greed and power-abuse for the wrongs of the world. Hence his extremely informative examination of Icke’s dogged belief in shape-changing lizards in David Icke, Lizards and Jews, and Jones’ fanaticism over the supposed occult rituals of world leaders in The Satanic Shadowy Elite.

However, if you still have all that prejudice to deal with, maybe the ‘loonies’ at the BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3042907.stm) or the Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,959538,00.html) could help out.

Wow, a Wikipedia page, someone's personal website, and and a book review from the notoriously left-leaning, anit-War Guardian newspaper. How could I have ever doubted someone with such impeccable sources.:rolleyes:
I also find it interesting that you appear to abandon arguments about PSYOP experiments at Waco and Abu Ghrahib and focus solely on some half ass theory of "silent sound" and "psycho corrective devices" being used at Guantanamo Bay. Most of the stuff mentioned are merely interrogation tactics designed to break someone's sleep habits and make them more palpable to questioning. If you're opposed to that then you're within you're rights, but inventing nefarious plots where there are none is a sure sign of a crackpot and call bullshit when I see it and your "sources" reek of it.

This little debate has been interesting but it's completely off topic and I'm through with it, start another thread if you wanna keep peddling your theories.

However, I do believe that there are very influential people, most old white men, most financiers or bright government ministers, who meet regularly to discuss business opportunities and shared directions.

They’re called the G8, WTO, World Bank etc.

We’re missing the woods for the trees.

QFT.

Wow, a Wikipedia page, someone’s personal website, and and a book review from the notoriously left-leaning, anit-War Guardian newspaper. How could I have ever doubted someone with such impeccable sources.:rolleyes:
I also find it interesting that you appear to abandon arguments about PSYOP experiments at Waco and Abu Ghrahib and focus solely on some half ass theory of “silent sound” and “psycho corrective devices” being used at Guantanamo Bay. Most of the stuff mentioned are merely interrogation tactics designed to break someone’s sleep habits and make them more palpable to questioning. If you’re opposed to that then you’re within you’re rights, but inventing nefarious plots where there are none is a sure sign of a crackpot and call bullshit when I see it and your “sources” reek of it.

This little debate has been interesting but it’s completely off topic and I’m through with it, start another thread if you wanna keep peddling your theories.

What theories am I peddling?

All that I have claimed is that PSYOP has operated in Iraq, Guantanamo and Waco, backed up by evidence from several reliable source (“anti-War” or not) including the BBC and even accepted by you, and that other US Army units have looked into the possibility of fostering superhuman abilities in their soldiers, supported by investigation by Jon Ronson; with both accounts including testimonies by high-ranking servicemen. See Ronson’s book The Men Who Stare At Goats and his TV series Crazy Rulers Of The World

I clearly stated that the Wikipedia page was merely useful for a good introduction to Ronson and his work, and directed you to examine sites linked at the bottom of said page. The “personal website” had the largest extract of Ronson’s book in question, dealing with the matter we are discussing, I could find in the time between posting. Choosing to ignore The Guardian because of it’s stance against the invasion of Iraq is, I’d suggest, rather foolhardy, as it is a reputable source for information, support for the invasion or not.

I fail to see what “nefarious plots” I am seeing or devising, further than a distaste for treatment of prisoners tantamount to psychological torture, and an interest in certain US Army units influenced by New Age philosophy. Perhaps you could enlighten me?

Ronson’s documentary on Alex Jones’ efforts to uncover, in Jones’ eyes, a secret cabal of the NWO, is quite relevant to the discussion. I believe Ronson’s examination of the mind-set of extremist conspiracy theorists and their almost fanatical desire to believe in NWO/Illuminati/Lizard Overlords rather than more mundane international organisations is fascinating, and so too is the very real possibility of genuine government agencies falling headlong into a similar fanatical, and bizarre, mind-set.

Again, I fail to see what is so “crackpot” about such musings.