NationStates Jolt Archive

When talking about universal health care, canada's system always seems to come up. All the discussion is always about wait times (which, I admit, are long in canada) and life expectancy (where canada has the advantage.)

How do you feel about Canada's health care system?

I'm happy with it, though it could be better funded, but, we'll get that yet. We'll vote the Conservatives out of office, same with the Liberals and put some social minded people in charge.

'Wait times'... that's a VERY broad term. When there are people, unless there is a HIGH number of doctors and nurses to patio ratio, you're going to have to wait plain and simple. There should be priority given to those who need emergency attention over those needing elective surgery and attention.

Well, when I had to undergo emergency surgery, I only waited long enough to ensure I had no food in my stomach, and then I was under the knife. I didn't pay for it, nor did I pay for the midwives that assisted at the birth of my children, and if I need to see a doctor, I rarely have to wait longer than a few hours at the local free clinic. It's not great, but it has saved my life, and I never have to pay for anything necessary.

I give it a thumbs up, but like almost everything else in this world, it is not perfect.

hey, could we get a few more responses or votes in here?

In Alberta, Ralph Klein managed to all but destroy the health care system here, but it's still semi-functional. I just wouldn't go near an ER.

Still two births, no cost, my mother-in-law receives free assistance from a dietician to manage her diabetes, various relatives have undergone heart surgery, etc, all free. My father has Hep C, and has been put on two medical trials with new mediciations that have virtually eliminated the detrimental effects of the disease in him...also free. I can walk into a clinic anywhere and wait...oh, tops 2 hours if it's crazy busy, but usually about 20 minutes.

So lets say you have a benign tumor, how would that work?

As an American, a wait at the doctor's office is a good half hour to an hour (depending on the doctor). I don't know how long the wait times are in Canada, but it seems like a better system to me.

So lets say you have a benign tumor, how would that work?

As an American, a wait at the doctor's office is a good half hour to an hour (depending on the doctor). I don't know how long the wait times are in Canada, but it seems like a better system to me.

Doctor detects an odd lump. Sets you up with an appointment for a biopsy. Biopsy comes back benign...but you are still scheduled with a surgeon for removal if you so decide.

I've had three friends go through this...total turn-around time, at the most was 3 months. (from biopsy to surgery...the biopsy took at the most 2 weeks to set up)

I also appreciate that eye exams and hearing exams are covered for children. Used to be that dental cleanings were covered, but that's no longer the case. Eye exams used to be free for everyone actually, and now they are about $50. Ah well.

I also appreciate that eye exams and hearing exams are covered for children. Used to be that dental cleanings were covered, but that's no longer the case. Eye exams used to be free for everyone actually, and now they are about $50. Ah well.

Wow, cheap! It's $75 here in Ontario for an eye exam. And it's be delisted - friggin' grits! No better than the tories!

Wow, cheap! It's $75 here in Ontario for an eye exam. And it's be delisted - friggin' grits! No better than the tories!

It might have gone up here...my last exam was a year ago.

Yeah, they're all the same, dirty rotten scoundrels.

It might have gone up here...my last exam was a year ago.

Yeah, they're all the same, dirty rotten scoundrels.

Actually, that price I quoted, was from about a year ago here in Ontario.

Actually, that price I quoted, was from about a year ago here in Ontario.

You know it'll be up to $200 in no time :(

I'm happy with it, though it could be better funded, but, we'll get that yet.
Funding is not the problem. The problem is the iron grip the government maintains on service provision.

Among countries with universal health care, Canada doesn't rank too well in terms of mortality and morbidity rates, or waiting times. Countries like Japan and Iceland, which allow private enterprise to play a role within their universal system, score much higher.

If any country (like the US) wants to implement a universal system, I suggest you look somewhere other than Canada to find your model.

Here is a fairly in-depth study (http://www.fraserinstitute.ca/admin/books/files/HowGoodHealthCare2006.pdf) comparing the Canadian system to other universal systems in OECD countries.

I'm happy with it, though it could be better funded, but, we'll get that yet. We'll vote the Conservatives out of office, same with the Liberals and put some social minded people in charge.

The Liberals and Conservatives are the only two parties to ever have held power at the federal level. Even official opposition has usually been held by whichever of them isn't currently in power. The chances of another party taking power are slim.

'Wait times'... that's a VERY broad term. When there are people, unless there is a HIGH number of doctors and nurses to patio ratio, you're going to have to wait plain and simple.

Completely untrue. While it is always necessary to ration scarce resources (such as medical professionals), waiting lists are hardly the only rationing method. You could also, Oh, I don't know, charge people for the use of the service.

Its badass.

Funding is not the problem. The problem is the iron grip the government maintains on service provision.

Among countries with universal health care, Canada doesn't rank too well in terms of mortality and morbidity rates, or waiting times. Countries like Japan and Iceland, which allow private enterprise to play a role within their universal system, score much higher.

If any country (like the US) wants to implement a universal system, I suggest you look somewhere other than Canada to find your model.

Here is a fairly in-depth study (http://www.fraserinstitute.ca/admin/books/files/HowGoodHealthCare2006.pdf) comparing the Canadian system to other universal systems in OECD countries.

Ha! nice link...as I expected the Fraser Institute the "right of Attila the Hun crowd", the same people who still deny climate change.....

Canada's health system is very good could it be better? of course but conservative governments need to stop deliberately trying to dismantle it...Lewdors hero King Ralph single handedly brought the Alberta Health system to it's knees but still it produces outstanding care despite the sabotage by the conservative government... Canadians (I love to make light of this) pay about $2,000 each in Taxes to live two years longer than americans who pay $5,000+ each for their private Insurance, and no Canadian is not covered while 45million americans have no coverage...

Wow, cheap! It's $75 here in Ontario for an eye exam. And it's be delisted - friggin' grits! No better than the tories!

I pay $60, my kids are free...

New Stalinberg So lets say you have a benign tumor, how would that work?

As an American, a wait at the doctor's office is a good half hour to an hour (depending on the doctor). I don't know how long the wait times are in Canada, but it seems like a better system to me.


I can see a MD in a clinic in an 1-1:30 tops....my personal MD a week,...once you get a referral to a specialist wait times vary depending on the specialty and the urgency of the situation...there are no wait times for ER treatment...


Neesika In Alberta, Ralph Klein managed to all but destroy the health care system here, but it's still semi-functional. I just wouldn't go near an ER.


If you're sick or slightly injured a clinic is the quickest...the problem with ER's is too many people use it as a clinic and overwhelm the ER...I was there recently and it was filled to capacity with sick who likely could be better treated in a clinic, wait times are long because the ERs take the critically ill first, Cardiac Arrests have a higher priority than upset tummies...

TIP!....If you really need to go to the ER for life threatening situations (not colds, flu's, cut fingers, upset tummies) call 911...all EMS cases get immediate admission.....

I really believe more funds are needed for the Canadian health care. Why are we increasing the military budget? We should be relocating that money into health care, education, and the country’s ageing infrastructures. While I'm at it, we shouldn't raise the minimum wage to $10 but to $7.45 (yeah, reduce it from the current $8.00), that way we can compete with both developed and developing countries (wage wise)

Don't live there, therefore, not qualified to judge.

I really believe more funds are needed for the Canadian health care. Why are we increasing the military budget? We should be relocating that money into health care, education, and the country’s ageing infrastructures. While I'm at it, we shouldn't raise the minimum wage to $10 but to $7.45 (yeah, reduce it from the current $8.00), that way we can compete with both developed and developing countries (wage wise)
You lucky bastards. Min is $6.50 here. The government forces a raise to $8.00 at 500 hours, but most places will just fire you when you get close.

I'm sure it works for Canadians, but from an American perspective, I think it's lousy.

I really believe more funds are needed for the Canadian health care. Why are we increasing the military budget? We should be relocating that money into health care, education, and the country’s ageing infrastructures. While I'm at it, we shouldn't raise the minimum wage to $10 but to $7.45 (yeah, reduce it from the current $8.00), that way we can compete with both developed and developing countries (wage wise)

only people I know of getting minimum wage are 15yr olds...regardless what is legislated minimum is closer to $12 and that's poverty level...

There should be priority given to those who need emergency attention over those needing elective surgery and attention.

There is; its called triage.

Great intentions, not so great results.

Lewdors hero King Ralph single handedly brought the Alberta Health system to it's knees but still it produces outstanding care despite the sabotage by the conservative government...
Why do people always blame the provinces for that one?

Prior to the election of the Liberal federal government in 1993, the Health & Social Transfer covered 50% of provincial health care costs. Then, when the Liberals were elected and decided to balance their budget (largely due to political pressure from the Reform Party), they did so not by increasing revenue, or by reducing federal services, but they balanced their budget almost entirely by cutting the Health & Social Transfer payments to the provinces. The federal share of provincial healthcare funded fell from 50% to22%. Every province was caught very badly short.

Two provinces happened to be carrying out extensive austerity measures at the time - Alberta and Ontario (it's worth noting that the first province to balance its budget was the NDP governed Saskatchewan). Alberta and Ontario were cutting pretty much everything. Ontario didn't manage to do it in a sustainable way, and future leaders (Eves, McGuinty) basically undid the whole thing. Alberta privatised huge pieces of the provincial government, deregulated utilities, and cut spending on everything they kept doing (for example, they issued only one license plate per car instead of the standard two). But, because they also lost a huge piece of revenue (the federal transfer payments), they were forced to make some pretty drastic, but temporary, changes to their healthcare system.

The funding came back. Alberta's government spends more money per capita than any other in Canada (this annoys me, but it's true). If you think funding makes healthcare better, Alberta should have kickass healthcare.

Incidentally, did you even bother to read that study? All it does is compare OECD data from a buch of different countries. There's hardly any commentary at all, and you can't argue with data.

I also appreciate that eye exams and hearing exams are covered for children. Used to be that dental cleanings were covered, but that's no longer the case. Eye exams used to be free for everyone actually, and now they are about $50. Ah well.

In Quebec, dental cleanings and mercury fillings are free for kids. Non-mercury fillings are $75 a pop. Eye exams are free, I think, but even if they're not, a lot of local eyeglass companies will do it for free.

it's poor governance...blaming it on the Liberals ok, but how is it poor Saskatchewan managed not to close three hospitals?....Alberta is resource rich there was no need to close hospitals that was inept governing...almost every family manages it's money better than the provincial Tories have, when you pay monthly bills it has to allocated to different areas...so much goes for the mortgage,food, school, health etc, paying only the mortgage and ignoring the monthly food or medical bill doesn't work...the Kline government did just that, paying of the mortgage but ignored everything else, they claimed we are debt free but we're not it was an illusion, we're far behind in regular household/family maintenance...

then there was the $1.3 billion(?) give away, how many MDs and medical personal could have been trained and hired with that handout...

Completely untrue. While it is always necessary to ration scarce resources (such as medical professionals), waiting lists are hardly the only rationing method. You could also, Oh, I don't know, charge people for the use of the service.

True, but I think medical services should be aloccated by need rather than ability to pay.

If the poor old lady needs surgery more than the rich old lady, then the rich old lady should be farther back in line, and neither should pay for necessary surgery.

If the rich one wants it quickly, and is willing to pay, I am sure a US doctor would do the work for her.

If the rich one wants it quickly, and is willing to pay, I am sure a US doctor would do the work for her.

Actually, Reader's Digest says that more Canadians with cash like to go to Thailand where they have very state-of-the-art 'International' hospitals that are generally better than what you have access to in the US. Plus, then you have all the opium and child prostitutes you want afterwards!

Actually, Reader's Digest says that more Canadians with cash like to go to Thailand where they have very state-of-the-art 'International' hospitals that are generally better than what you have access to in the US. Plus, then you have all the opium and child prostitutes you want afterwards!

I'm packing my bags right now!

The longest I had to wait for anything was at 3 am on Boxing day. I woke up with terrible stomach pains and the walk-in clinics weren't open yet, I called the telehealth Ontario line and they told me I should see a doctor right away. This meant the ER since no other doctors are available at that hour. I waited six hours, but there were people who came in on stretchers who were obviously higher priority than me with my stomach ache. Turns out it was an ulcer, the doctor told me to get some antacids and try to relax.
Generally I go to walk in clinics and the wait has been under an hour each time I've been. The only thing I have to pay for generally is whatever perscription meds I need.

when you pay monthly bills it has to allocated to different areas...


And the one you forget is savings. One must prepare for the future. Sustainable governing is not inept. Do you have three months income saved up? Any investments? RRSPs? Private pension plans? Insurance?

Fat grows more fat. In 30 years, 1/2 of all canadians will be 60+. Retired. No longer contributing to the economy. Making heavy use of the healthcare system.

It is best to reduce expenses now so that when that time comes, we have saved and are better prepared. The only other alternative is to tax the sweet hell out of....the future working class. What kind of socialist are you to advocate that?

Be a good socialist. Conserve.

And the one you forget is savings. One must prepare for the future. Sustainable governing is not inept. Do you have three months income saved up? Any investments? RRSPs? Private pension plans? Insurance?

Fat grows more fat. In 30 years, 1/2 of all canadians will be 60+. Retired. No longer contributing to the economy. Making heavy use of the healthcare system.

It is best to reduce expenses now so that when that time comes, we have saved and are better prepared. The only other alternative is to tax the sweet hell out of....the future working class. What kind of socialist are you to advocate that?

Be a good socialist. Conserve.

it was a simple analogy I could have added a lot of things...but it doesn't change my opinion of the tory government as incompetent money managers...

three months income saved up?- 12 months actually

Any investments?-yes

RRSPs?-yes

Private pension plans?-my own I'm not worried about my retirement...

Insurance?-of course

"reduce expenses now"????-back to my home analogy, paying of the mortgage is great but pointless if don't maintain your home, your health and your family, your children's education...it's delusional...as resources are used up our taxes will rise and society will have to do with less, this free market idea of constant growth and lower taxes is a fantasy...

Here is a fairly in-depth study (http://www.fraserinstitute.ca/admin/books/files/HowGoodHealthCare2006.pdf) comparing the Canadian system to other universal systems in OECD countries.

Got one from a group other then 'the friends of Darth Harper'?

Glad to hear you are properly invested. Its a wise move.

...this free market idea of constant growth and lower taxes is a fantasy...

I quite agree with this. Growth will stagnate and taxes will shoot up.

Any financial advisor would recomend that someone with debt problems pay down those bad debts. A mortgage doesnt count as bad debt, but provinces and countries dont hold mortgages. Alberta had a debt problem, so it cut up the credit cards and paid them off. There is nothing particularly conservative about that.

We started with the maturing debts first, which means that the people to whom we owed were starting to call for a payback. While it is standard practice for the federal government to bail out the provinces when they become insolvent, Alberta was allowed to enter receivership during the 1950s to 1970s. It is perfectly valid to assume that that would happen again, and perfectly responsible to take care of our own debts.

Why would Alberta want to have outstanding external debts when oil finally falls through? How is that inept?