NationStates Jolt Archive

Do you guys think Russia is a friend, or a foe to the United States? If you're a European: what do you think of Russia? I know some Europeans are threatened by a powerful Russian state.

I am asking because I have to do a debate on the topic and I am arguing that Russia is not our (the United States's) foe. The last thing America needs (in my opinion) is to find someone else to be enemies with, but a lot of Americans seem to think differently.

If you guys have any factual information, that would be really great, but your opinion would be just as good as well.

Neither. They're not a big trading partner for us as far as I know, and they don't want to attack us, so they're neither.

As a finn, the proper thing to do would be to hate russians... so i dont.

But stuff seems quite fucked up over there as of now,
with former agents/reporters/chechens losing their lives and whatnot.

Still, thats governments for you.

Neither.
Big, yes, but disorganised.
I normally don't think much about Russia...

I don't think it's much of a friend or foe - since the downfall of the USSR and the Berlin Wall, it's very much isolated itself, sorting out domestic problems.

In Soviet Russia, thought thinks you!









...I'll leave now.

We were expecting it. :p

I normally don't think much about Russia...

In Soviet Russia, thought thinks you!









...I'll leave now.

Russia (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-20CtRdmL4)

They're just waiting for the right moment to strike...

Do you guys think Russia is a friend, or a foe to the United States?
Friend now, when oil is available from somewhere else.

Enemy when it runs out in the Middle East, and you annihilate Venezuala.
If you're a European: what do you think of Russia?
It's a dump. But a dump that's been a very useful ally in several wars, and is also a good trading partner in terms of resources.

Fine, their internal policies are messed up. They take state control of anyone they don't really like. But such is life, and since I'm not really personally affected but it, I'm not going to impotently moan about it.
I know some Europeans are threatened by a powerful Russian state.
Meh. They're no more of a threat than the US, and to be honest, we can do as little about them as a superpower as we can the US.
I am asking because I have to do a debate on the topic and I am arguing that Russia is not our (the United States's) foe. The last thing America needs (in my opinion) is to find someone else to be enemies with, but a lot of Americans seem to think differently.
You can thank the Cold War for that, really.
If you guys have any factual information, that would be really great, but your opinion would be just as good as well.
Russia has an even worse obesity problem than the US.
It has really good nuclear missiles which the US can't do anything about, since they're laser-proof.
In Putin's Russia, facts find you.

Russia (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-20CtRdmL4)

They're just waiting for the right moment to strike...

mostly lol. however the sad thing is that it might be true, and it would not be funny if it actually happened.

mostly lol. however the sad thing is that it might be true, and it would not be funny if it actually happened.
Especially not if one was located in Poland.

I don't trust Russia any further than I can throw her. Which seeing as she is a huge trans-continental land mass, I don't trust her at all.

Russia's political culture never grew out of the authoritarian imperialism of the 19th Century. During the Soviet Era, Russia was the exact prototype of everything she professed to hate, an aggressive empire that oppressed its workers. The few people in the ruling class who realised this became incredibly jaded and apathetic, and that remains to the present day. The grimness, the complete lack of any kind of idealism or optimistic though in Russia makes it ripe for mass pyschological breakdown on a national level.

And yet they have the second most nukes, and basically control who in Europe gets to survive the winter.

One should not located in Poland, if at all possible.

I think Putin has some dictatorial signs but at least he's got the Russian economy moving which is more than one can say about the american puppet Jeltsin. Russia will grow stronger in the future thanks to their economical developmen and they've started to armour up. But to be honest I don't know if Russia is a friend or a foe. They certainly want more power, that's for sure but I don't think they want a new cold war.

Russia (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-20CtRdmL4)

They're just waiting for the right moment to strike...

Funny, I just watched that episode of the Simpsons one hour ago on the TV.

One should not located in Poland, if at all possible.

In Soviet Russia, Poland inavdes YOU!!

Russia is not our enemy, but Putin is not to be trusted. Especially because of the little "soul moment" he and bush seemed to share.

I think Russia is its own worst enemy right now. They have a deeply entrenched system of political corruption, underdeveloped infrastructure, a shambles of an economy, simmering sectarian conflicts, and a culture of autocracy that will be very hard to soften. The trouble is, as was said before, they've really never known much of anything else. I personally don't think that Russia will ever quite overcome its problems.

On a tangentially related note, I had a business idea: buy an old Typhoon nuclear submarine, hire on its old crew to man it (for wages better than they earn working for the Russian Navy but still cheap by anyone's standards), and refit it as a novelty cruise liner.

Sorry for the hijack.

*ahem*

NEEDS MOAR POLE

The Russian Federation is still the same Soviet Union we came to know and love in the Cold War. Except the KGB and their corrupt allies (Mafia among them) have managed to take over the government in a silent coup after their failed attempt in 1991, under the premises of the State Emergency Committee.

Also, the government is incredibly corrupt at every level, from executive to local, with absolutely no accountability. Local and regional politicians are largely unchanged from the Soviet era, somehow managing to remain elected. The two major opposing political parties are the corrupt Brezhnev-type Communists and the equally corrupt Mafia-sponsered Capitalists. The gap between the rich and poor widens everyday. Journalists and others who speak out against the government are mysteriously gunned down or poisoned, or just disappear.

The military is practically the same massive war machine, except the machine needs an oil change. The over-produced surplus battle tanks and missiles are degrading and rusting in warehouses, commonly being lifted during the night whilst the underpaid, demoralised and inept soldiers are being bribed, who are paid next to nothing. Officers still wear their Soviet era insignia and uniform.

Russia still exerts control over the Eastern Bloc countries, who have Oil and other resources. Attempts to directly threaten well-meaning political leaders leaders and and aggressive talk of military action are rife. Efforts of former Eastern Bloc countries to join NATO and/or the EU are met with embargos and aggressive rhetoric from the Kremlin. US bases and movement of military equipment are vehemently viewed with extreme suspicion. Russia blocks any UN resolution that may happen to threaten their interests in the Middle East.

Gentlemen. The Cold War is not over. It never really ended.

On a tangentially related note, I had a business idea: buy an old Typhoon nuclear submarine, hire on its old crew to man it (for wages better than they earn working for the Russian Navy but still cheap by anyone's standards), and refit it as a novelty cruise liner.

Sorry for the hijack.

Interestingly enough there are actually proposed plans to refit old Typhoon class submarines as massive cargo vessels.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine_Cargo_Vessel

Frankly, Russia does not concern me greatly. The fear-mongering over Putin's intentions upon the European oil/gas supply should simply compel us to seek alternatives, not to bristle with cold-war hostility. Indeed, I imagine that warmer relations with Russia would greatly strengthen the EU, both militarily,economically, and geographically, whilst the remnants of the KGB may prove useful.

Russia is foe to everyone, including the Russians.

It always has been, and always will be.

Foe, definitely. As long as the Kremlin is still standing, there can never be world peace.

From what I know, Russia is rather like China.
They want trade, but not interaction. Hell, most Russian history has been occupied by them building buffer states to keep nasty Western Europeans out.
You cant really blame them though, can you? Their first major interaction with a 'Western' (IE not the ERE) power was a crusade.

Do you guys think Russia is a friend, or a foe to the United States? If you're a European: what do you think of Russia? I know some Europeans are threatened by a powerful Russian state.

I am asking because I have to do a debate on the topic and I am arguing that Russia is not our (the United States's) foe. The last thing America needs (in my opinion) is to find someone else to be enemies with, but a lot of Americans seem to think differently.

If you guys have any factual information, that would be really great, but your opinion would be just as good as well.

A state that's lost its empire and constantly sees the countries on its borders shifting alliance to the other superpower isn't so much of a threat.
Also trading with Russia is one of the EU's biggest businesses.
Then again, if the Poles and the Czech are so dumb to let Bush place the USA antimissile systems on their territories... well, their fault if the Russian aim their Topol-M's at them (and no, you can't intercept them). I don't think that surrounding Russia with antimissile systems is a good detente policy.
I've lived the first 14 years of my life in a city targeted by at least 5 soviet warheads in the megaton range... and never felt really threatened.

Foe, definitely. As long as the Kremlin is still standing, there can never be world peace.

Yea. Try to take on the Cremlin... if you think you're better than Napoleon. Seesh.

Yea. Try to take on the Cremlin... if you think you're better than Napoleon. Seesh.

Whoa, easy there. I never advocated confrontation.

A foe for it's own citizens, at least those not in the content - not really caring - possibly misled majority. Strangely enough, judging by various election results, the majority of people seem to like it this way... (and no, knowing something of the Russian mentality, I don't think the results were forged, at least enough to affect them qualitatively, and, besides, I know people who actually participated in ballot counting).

As for the international policies, stating the obvious, it's highly unlikely that Russia will take any serious military action in the foreseeable future, unless some yet another revolution happens... As it was pointed out, its government is currently dealing with the domestic problems and it doesn't seem to be interested in conquest, really... That's not counting participation in local conflicts which both the US and Russia (even in its current state) seem to like so much...

Finally,

The two major opposing political parties are the corrupt Brezhnev-type Communists and the equally corrupt Mafia-sponsered Capitalists.

...This almost made me laugh (not sure whether it was intended to). I wouldn't argue about corruption levels but Russia has never really had a two-party government; currently it's leaning towards being dominated by the populist, pro-Putin 'Edinaya Rossia' ('United Russia')... Still elected by the majority...

Foe, definitely. As long as the Kremlin is still standing, there can never be world peace.

You do know, destroying Moscow would piss off most of the population of Russia to no end.
Think what would happen if somebody blew up Mecca.
Now give them the first or second (depending on who you ask) best nuclear weapons on the planet.

In any case, Russia is going to be around for quite some time. The Russians, as has been demonstrated several times, are quite difficult to occupy.
Total destruction of Russia is possible of course, but not without total destruction of every other major country on the planet.

I just got back from Russia yesterday, and the people in Moscow and St Petersburg thing very strongly of British people, suprisingly. Politically they think that the UK (especially london, or londongrad as they call it) is place where they can always rely on safety and neutrality to speak out since so many influential Russians have seeked asylum there (including Lenin).

Russia is not even the friend of Russia.

Foe? Of course. It is probably the strongest country in the world, within some 5 years ( note the "some", I have no time to research) they managed to shift from being debitors of the World Bank to being its creditors... what does that tell you?

So.... Russia is in anything but name a dictatorship, its Duma voted for the right of Russia to interfere and attack countries whose actions are being deemed hostile to Russia ( thank you USA for creating such a lovely precedent), and Putin is a czar in anything but name.

( I'm Romanian, albeit living in England, let me give you a different perspective, k?)

That is what makes Russia dangerous. The fact that at the end of it Putin can get all the power he wants, and that he is ruthless enough to do it.
Also remember that Russia has enough natural resources to do whatever the fuck it wants, and by now it also has the power to take what it needs.

As of now, Russia does decide who's gonna freeze in Europe, and just the lack of a cold winter this year helped us insofar. We might not be so lucky next year.


On the other side, considering that the USA has proved itself to be a great threat to world peace, maybe it is better to have a second superpower to balance things.

I think Russia is its own worst enemy right now. They have a deeply entrenched system of political corruption, underdeveloped infrastructure, a shambles of an economy, simmering sectarian conflicts, and a culture of autocracy that will be very hard to soften. The trouble is, as was said before, they've really never known much of anything else. I personally don't think that Russia will ever quite overcome its problems.

On a tangentially related note, I had a business idea: buy an old Typhoon nuclear submarine, hire on its old crew to man it (for wages better than they earn working for the Russian Navy but still cheap by anyone's standards), and refit it as a novelty cruise liner.

Sorry for the hijack.

Its always been like that. Russia has always been a 'zombie superpower', in that despite the fact that internally it shows no real signs of life it continues to lurch forever towards us, arms outstretched groaning for Western braaaiiins.

You do know, destroying Moscow would piss off most of the population of Russia to no end.
Think what would happen if somebody blew up Mecca.
Now give them the first or second (depending on who you ask) best nuclear weapons on the planet.

In any case, Russia is going to be around for quite some time. The Russians, as has been demonstrated several times, are quite difficult to occupy.
Total destruction of Russia is possible of course, but not without total destruction of every other major country on the planet.

Erm, I don't think you can really relate Moscow to Mecca.

Obviously 10% of Russians would be pissed off if you destroyed Moscow, because that happens to be where they live. But it would probably be the case that Russia would collapse like a pack of cards if its European core was removed.

This thread needs more Soviet Russia jokes.

I just got back from Russia yesterday, and the people in Moscow and St Petersburg thing very strongly of British people, suprisingly. Politically they think that the UK (especially london, or londongrad as they call it) is place where they can always rely on safety and neutrality to speak out since so many influential Russians have seeked asylum there (including Lenin).

Russia seems to like the British, despite their historical rivalry.
I have no idea why, its a relationship the British have exploited a number of times. Crimean War, anybody?



Erm, I don't think you can really relate Moscow to Mecca.

Obviously 10% of Russians would be pissed off if you destroyed Moscow, because that happens to be where they live. But it would probably be the case that Russia would collapse like a pack of cards if its European core was removed.
Remember what happened the last time somebody took Moscow? Something about a winter assault...
And the time before that? Something about %10 of the force that marched into Moscow coming back home.
And the time before that time? Something about a massive revolt, whereby a significant portion of the population revolted.
There are examples before this, although Moscow wasnt involved. The Northern Crusades, as an example, and everybodies favorite Russian folk hero, Mr. Nevsky.
The Russians might not like their government, but through their history (although there have been some notable exceptions, yes) they have generally been quite willing to fight for the STATE of Russia. Whoever is in charge at the time just provides a good rallying cry.
If you dont like Mecca, use London. What do you think the British reaction would be to somebody burning London?

my general impression is that russia is too cut up by internal difficulties to be a threat to anyone at the moment. they are good as a deterent to us militarism in parts of the islamic world so i reckon it's a good thing that the us should be scared of them.

in soviet russia, threats debate you.

Whoa, easy there. I never advocated confrontation.

Perhaps you should? :p

This thread needs more Soviet Russia jokes.

In Soviet Russia, the Soviet Russia jokes need this thread!:eek: