NationStates Jolt Archive

Really why do so many people hate the US? If we hated a country over their we would hate many more countries. Just because Our president is a total dumbass, and we had a Republician majoprity, and the fact that we are in Iraq.

Why do you think that most americans are rightwing gun nuts? I own a gun, I support conceal and carry,but yet i hate the fricking republicans.

The fuck?!

Really why do so many people hate the US? If we hated a country over their we would hate many more countries. Just because Our president is a total dumbass, and we had a Republician majoprity, and the fact that we are in Iraq.

Why do you think that most americans are rightwing gun nuts? I own a gun, I support conceal and carry,but yet i hate the fricking republicans.

They don't hate the US. They are upset with the current administration and I think you'll find that isn't exclusive to people on here or ouside the US.

Because it's a horrible country? I donno.

Why, because the people here are Commie loving fags who wants to burn the American Flag, and they are the one who caused Dale Earnhart Sr. death because they hate Nascar and the sweet freedom!!!!!

/sarcasm.

Because the US sucks, duh.

And because you won't get it, this is not a serious post.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/viewpoint/vp_kinsman/20070219.html

It's not just "on here". It's everywhere...

Oh, and I don't care who's puppet you are.

Just because Our president is a total dumbass, and we had a Republician majoprity, and the fact that we are in Iraq.

Aren't those pretty good reasons?

if we wanted people to like us, we would have elected Al Gore.(we did)

I know why NSG hates America.
Its because theyre COMMIES.
JEWISH commies.

>_>
<_<

Aren't those pretty good reasons?

No, those are pretty stupid reasons. There's more to a country than its government.

I know why NSG hates America.
Its because theyre COMMIES.
JEWISH commies.

>_>
<_<

We're Jew commies, or Americans are jew commies?

No, those are pretty stupid reasons.

Considering that "hate the US" seems to mean "heavily criticize certain aspects of the US"....

(I don't even know what it means to "hate the US" in any other sense, but then, I always had difficulty with the "love your country" concept too....)

Why do you think that most americans are rightwing gun nuts? I own a gun, I support conceal and carry,but yet i hate the fricking republicans.Why do you hate all Republicans as they can just as easily, and make a large argument becuase they know how to BS;) , and also to file all Republicans under one banner is not just the best thing as they are as diverse as the Democrats.

You knew it was coming... (http://www.johnberman.com/pics/funny/not_this_shit_again.jpg)

We're Jew commies, or Americans are jew commies?

BOTH.

Can someone point me to a few posts which can confirm 'everyone' on here hates the US? Or at least half the people here? There are huge differences between disagreeing with what the US does and hating it.

Oh, you guys made your beds as far as I'm concerned.

Just because Our president is a total dumbass, and we had a Republician majoprity, and the fact that we are in Iraq.
Heh, besides that and some other things I love the USA.

Why does everybody on here seem to hate the US?
Because it's good for the soul, the skin. And just plain fun.

Can someone point me to a few posts which can confirm 'everyone' on here hates the US? Or at least half the people here? There are huge differences between disagreeing with what the US does and hating it.

Oh, you cant see most of the US-hating posts, because theyre INVISIBLE.
The Jew-Mafia-KGB works with MI6 to keep people from seeing them.

Because it's a horrible country? I donno.

i think the sudan is a bit worse then america,,go to nyc sometime...you may find that most americans are decent fun loving people,,,but what do i know...you seem to know it all.

Because it's a horrible country? I donno.

i think the sudan is a bit worse then america,,go to nyc sometime...you may find that most americans are decent fun loving people,,,but what do i know...you seem to know it all.

They don't hate the US. They are upset with the current administration and I think you'll find that isn't exclusive to people on here or ouside the US.They do hate the US. The current administration is only the result of the overall social and political development of the last 50 years or so. Seeing the greatest military power behaving irresponsibly is more than a little scary and seeing what is going on educationwise is even more scary (with the rise of so called "alternative science" like ID and such utter crap), because this signals more irresponsible behavior to come.

i think the sudan is a bit worse then america,,go to nyc sometime...you may find that most americans are decent fun loving people,,,but what do i know...you seem to know it all.However, Sudan does not have a global net of aggressive policies going on, let alone having two messed up wars overseas.

No, those are pretty stupid reasons. There's more to a country than its government.Yes, the people who voted the government into office... :rolleyes:

After deep talks with European friends, it is because us Americans have a very "Americentric" worldview.

It is hard to detail this perception, but it is generally the European stereotype that we look at the United States as the most powerful nation in the world. That we look at the US as the richest country in the world. That we believe the United States is the "best way", and that we are inherently superior as a nation to the rest of the world.

This is further troubled by our lack of knowledge on other nations, global geography among other things.

While Europeans somewhat believe themselves to see the bigger picture on things, how the other superpowers influence global events, etc.

Many Europeans also see us as tasteless, a young nation that has a greedy, materialist culture. That we have an arrogant loud attitude.

This is why many hate America. And consider President George W. Bush has an example of what the United States is all about in many eyes.

However, Sudan does not have a global net of aggressive policies going on, let alone having two messed up wars overseas.

i'll agree with your assesment to a point.
but dont we give more aid then every other country combined?
yes it probably has strings attached....but the average american has a good heart and wants to share our good fortune.
we do pay the taxes,and one can blame us for our elected officials...but then again...we get to choose between dumb and dumber.
americans are by and large decent people and would/do give what we can to the less fortunate.
present gov excluded.....or any asshole that pretends to care...trust me they dont.
i mean all of the asshats that pretend to rep the american people.

most if not all americans care about the plight of everyone else,if not just cause we have it so good.
tyou can say it is easy to care when you have the money....true...but what about other countries?

i think it is easy to blame america...out of jealousie....i dont care if gore was in office...we would still be hated.


i'm on a mexican radio....

That we have an arrogant loud attitude.

Not to sound TOO much like the stereotypical 'whiney American haet uropianz', but I find that to be increadibly ironic.

i'll agree with your assesment to a point.
but dont we give more aid then every other country combined?
yes it probably has strings attached....but the average american has a good heart and wants to share our good fortune.
we do pay the taxes,and one can blame us for our elected officials...but then again...we get to choose between dumb and dumber.
americans are by and large decent people and would/do give what we can to the less fortunate.
present gov excluded.....or any asshole that pretends to care...trust me they dont.
i mean all of the asshats that pretend to rep the american people.

most if not all americans care about the plight of everyone else,if not just cause we have it so good.
tyou can say it is easy to care when you have the money....true...but what about other countries?

i think it is easy to blame america...out of jealousie....i dont care if gore was in office...we would still be hated.

i'm on a mexican radio....

To share your good fortune? No, you are trying to impose your perspective and so called values on the rest of the world. This has nothing to do with someone else's jealousy, this has exclusively to do with how your folks behave at home and especially abroad. You think your country is the "greatest nation on earth" and so on and so forth, but we have not seen any evidence for it yet. The US is a relatively young country with no real culture and it only exists of the confidence in military and economic strength while still figuring out some basic society issues. The US is not the land of the free and the home of the brave, it is rather the land of the vain and the home of the proud.

To share your good fortune? No, you are trying to impose your perspective and so called values on the rest of the world.
Not to point the nasty cultural finger, but arent Europeans doing that to? The Balkans, Russia, Turkey, Israel, parts of Africa, it seems like Europe puts a lot of cultural/diplomatic preassure on people to become more 'western'.
EDIT:
Or perhaps I should say 'more European' or, 'more enlightened', whatever term you like to use, it boils down to 'more like us'.

This has nothing to do with someone else's jealousy, this has exclusively to do with how your folks behave at home and especially abroad.
See above.

You think your country is the "greatest nation on earth" and so on and so forth, but we have not seen any evidence for it yet.
Pure opinion. I think the US is the greatest country on Earth because I happen to live there.
If you want to change peoples opinions, youre going about it in entirly the wrong way.

The US is a relatively young country with no real culture
Correction: The US is a relativly young country, with an insane number of cultures which constantly intermix and change.
The problem is that people fail to realize that, yes, the US has no SINGLE, centralized culture. We have 'Southern' cultures, 'Northern' cultures, 'New York' culture, 'Boston' culture, etc. etc. etc. etc. and so on and so forth.

and it only exists of the confidence in military and economic strength while still figuring out some basic society issues.
So the US has ZERO political clout? Nobody would mind if we withdrew from the UN, cut off all our foreign aid, stopped all trade and pretended the rest of the world didnt exist?

The US is not the land of the free and the home of the brave, it is rather the land of the vain and the home of the proud.

Irony level is over 9,000.

i'll agree with your assesment to a point.
but dont we give more aid then every other country combined?

Er, no?
And you actually give the smallest percentage per capita, too.


yes it probably has strings attached....but the average american has a good heart and wants to share our good fortune.
we do pay the taxes,and one can blame us for our elected officials...but then again...we get to choose between dumb and dumber.
americans are by and large decent people and would/do give what we can to the less fortunate.
present gov excluded.....or any asshole that pretends to care...trust me they dont.
i mean all of the asshats that pretend to rep the american people.

most if not all americans care about the plight of everyone else,if not just cause we have it so good.
tyou can say it is easy to care when you have the money....true...but what about other countries?

In case you hadn't noticed, NO country, not a single one, zero countries, none at all are universally loved.
I'm afraid you'll just have to come to terms with the fact that you're just as average as Germany, Sudan, Iraq, Serbia, France and Venezuela. Some people like your country, others don't.


i think it is easy to blame america...out of jealousie....i dont care if gore was in office...we would still be hated.

i'm on a mexican radio....

Yep. We're all jealous. http://www.reloaded.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/hysterical.gif

Oh, and one thing :

Did you ever notice how many people here say they don't like or even hate the USA and what it does to the world, yet nobody ever seriously claimed to dislike USAmericans on the whole?
Think about it for a moment.

Sosdd

Why, because the people here are Commie loving fags who wants to burn the American Flag, and they are the one who caused Dale Earnhart Sr. death because they hate Nascar and the sweet freedom!!!!!

/sarcasm.

People like youmake me feel ashamed to live in the US. I agree with another post on here though. People don't really hate it, they are just unhappy, and are entitled to be, and in my opinion should be. However just as they get happy though, another group will become unhappy. To me it just depends on the way you look at it. Take mine for example. I love the US for the most part but there are things about it I am down right ashamed of, people like you for example. Or the fact that we burn off of materialism, the fact that America is a country with so much excess even the poor can afford to be fat. Not that this only applies to the US but that we believe we are some "superior" nation who has a duty to "rid the world of the evil powers". Take your pick, there are many reasons to dislike, or even hate this country. However, we enjoy generally more freedoms than any other country. Can speak out, defend what we want, despite personal discrimination, have the right to be in whatever religion we want. Personally I like to look at it from a middle ground and have the opinion that we are the best damn horrible country ever.

Yes, the people who voted the government into office... :rolleyes:

A) A huge percentage of the population didn't vote.

B) Of those who did vote, not everyone voted for Bush.

Nice straw man, though.

And again: There's more to a country than its government.

I don't hate the US. I think it's a good country with a lot of nice people. I may not agree with the government or a lot of the citizens politically and socially, but that doesn't mean I hate it. Criticism doesn't imply hatred.

Criticism doesn't imply hatred.

It seems to, for some here.
Either hatred or jealousy, apparently.

Sometimes I wonder if they're in love with the idea of being hated. Wouldn't be the first to take comfort in a persecution complex...

It seems to, for some here.
Either hatred or jealousy, apparently.

It really depends on how its voiced.
People get overly defensive on both sides, Americans in defence of their country, non-US Citizens getting upset over accusations that they 'really' think the US is better than their own country.

Its a vicious cycle, basically.

Sometimes I wonder if they're in love with the idea of being hated. Wouldn't be the first to take comfort in a persecution complex...

Rather like some who take pleasure in feeding that complex?

*yawn*
its 1:30 here in the Barbarian Lands. G'night, dear.

It seems to, for some here.
Either hatred or jealousy, apparently.
That's idiotic. Criticizing someone for their behaviour doesn't automatically means you hate that person. How is it different with countries?

Very few people hate "the US". Many people, including I, strongly oppose the US government, the US imperialism and the reckless society they impose both inside and outside their borders. But we don't hate the US citizens.

Rather like some who take pleasure in feeding that complex?

You give me way too much credit that little old me could get such a big, strong, good(TM) nation all persecuted... but persecution is in the eye of the persecuted, it seems. Not liking them or their policies, I am to be consumed by my machinations to cause them mental anguish over teh internets.

That's idiotic. Criticizing someone for their behaviour doesn't automatically means you hate that person. How is it different with countries?

You're asking the wrong person here.
Personally, I never understood the concept of a "country", much less the idea of being emotional about it in any way.
I do understand "individual", and I do understand "government", so if I criticise anything, it's bound to be either of the two.

They don't hate the US. They are upset with the current administration and I think you'll find that isn't exclusive to people on here or ouside the US.

I'm not upset just with the current administration. I think that US imperialism dates back to the end on 19th century, and I despise that. I hate ANY imperialism, not just US imperialism.
I also don't like common law system (I prefer the law system based on the roman code). I don't like the US government system, I prefer parliamentary democracies and proportional electoral laws. I don't understand all the typical US religious zeal also - religion should be a personal issue in my opinion. I don't like american football (soccer and rugby are better to me) and I think that baseball is just a downgraded form of cricket.
Do I hate the US or the americans? No. There are a lot of things I like about the US culture; just an example, I think that the US has some of the best policies about science and research. I also like a lot of Hollywood movies (John Ford and Steven Spielberg are some of my favourite film makers), I like DnD (a typical US cultural product), I like listening to soul and blues...

What does 50% of Europe have against the United States? Well, in the short term, disillusionment over Bush and Iraq haven't done us a lot of good, but I'd point the finger at a much deeper, and much more difficult to fix gap. (I chose Europe because Africa, the Middle East, and Asia dislike the U.S. for entirely different reasons, often having to do with a clash between modernity and older lifestyles, Iraq, and a general feeling of dissatisfaction with the global political establishment, which the U.S. is the de facto figurehead of because it is the "Uber-power", whether or not it is truly in control of anything, it gets blamed for said establishment.)

Europe is beginning to realize that somewhere, deep down, Americans really aren't what Europe had convinced itself that they were. Whilst Europe was going through an Enlightenment, America was struggling with the day-to-day problems of colonies. As a result, the ideals and cultural psyches of the two societies grew apart. Americans developed an attitude of frontiersmanship, which created both the feeling that there was always a new frontier, always new resources, and the American philosophical pragmatism. Americans are not unconcerned with doing the right thing, but the pragmatic mindset says, "Uhuh, it sounds good but I want to see it work first." In contrast, the high-minded ideals of the French Enlightenment, color the European mindset. This tends to cause a clash. Moreover, the Enlightenment brought with in Free thought and all of the deistic and post-deistic thinking models that infuse European views of religion. In the U.S. we are equally colored in our views by the Puritans and their flight from religious oppression (of a sort, if being controlled after they helped to overthrow the King really counts as oppression). This too leaves Europeans wondering how we can claim to have a separation between church and state, and still have religion be central to our culture, even politically.

Worse yet, in terms of politics, the political establishment of the U.S. is very different from the political establishment of Europe. During the era of Progressive reform in the U.S., Europe was gearing up for two wars that would leave it utterly wasted. In the U.S., class is not as important a function in politics because we got the chance to heal the rift, if not the inequality, in our politics. Because of this, the European political culture has a much more class-defined political structure than American culture does, and it shows. The very idea that a party might have youth sports leagues, or that a party might have youth groups is repulsive to Americans, and that too is a creation of the different political establishments of the two nations.

Most of all, the European mindset remembers what a war can do to a nation. Americans haven't had a war on our soil in 150 years, and even then, it was a war that the South felt most, and the destruction really only touched Georgia at the level that Europe was touched during the World Wars. In America, war is colored by the perception of Vietnam, certainly, but we still do not view violence with the horror that many Europeans do.

Europeans also do not understand why change sometimes takes so long on issues in America. It is not that we are stupid and backwards. In fact, more often than not, our public is not so far from the European public as Europe thinks. The thing is that our political leaders were purposefully isolated from the people to a degree. This was by design, to make sure every issue got the due consideration it needed. Unfortunately, this breaks down when it comes to going to war, giving the world a very schizophrenic view of American politics. Often, the public will change quickly, and the establishment will move more slowly.

The last ingredient in this moody brew is that Americans are fiercely independent. The thought that other nations could dare to dictate our politics to us rankles us. It doesn't jive well with our cultural self-image. We, too, are colored by our images of the frontier west. We remember the vigilante hero and see him as (to steal a phrase from the Neo-Cons) a "rugged individualist". We are, therefore, very given to cast aside European political advice. This does not sit well with Europeans, who see the U.S. as being cavalier, cultureless, and impolite.

Don't get me wrong, the issues are behind everything, and it is impossible to talk about U.S. - Europe relations without discussing Iraq, Kyoto, and Bush, but eventually those issues will fade, as the inevitable occurs, and the U.S. realizes it's error. However, there is a deeper root to this dislike, and it comes from an inability to understand that there are now two "Wests" with two very different psyches. Until Europeans and Americans can come to terms with the fact that they will not always agree, and that they need to compromise and co-operate, and listen, but not expect to be obeyed, these clashes will continue to occur.

To summarize for the vast majority who will go, "Long post, I'm moving on": We really don't get eachother for a lot of reasons. We need to understand and come to terms with that.

Really why do so many people hate the US?


Because you've started a war based on a lie causing hundreds of tousands dead civilians. That was also a war against someone you helped to get to power before.
Because you have torture camps in different places in the world were many people are hold without a trial and because you have secret prisons in eastern Europe where we can only imagine what's going on.
Because you reelected the same moron who is responsible for all of those things.
Because you don't care about what the world or the UN thinks, you only care about yourself knowing that nobody can do anything to stop whatever you want to do.

That's just a couple of reasons why I have lost all the respect I once had for USA and those reasons are probably shared by many more.

I know why NSG hates America.
Its because theyre COMMIES.
JEWISH commies.

>_>
<_<

You forgot some: jewish ****** satanist papist commies. (How can one be simultaneously a jew, a papist and a satanist, beats me, but not KKK...)

*looks at the current administration*

*hates self because his father voted for them twice* :mad:

To summarize for the vast majority who will go, "Long post, I'm moving on": We really don't get eachother for a lot of reasons. We need to understand and come to terms with that.

You know, that vast majority is losing a very good post, with solid arguments and a valuable analysis of the issues of the euro-american relationship. Jolly good work, old chap!

This very forum has actually made me "hate the US" less.

I've heard the words of individual americans, and I've seen them debating fairly with people from other countries. I've read the words of humble, decent americans who have no blind allegiance to their government, their culture or their home-town, but an attitude a lot like mine: "I am lucky to be a citizen of my country, my country has helped and nurtured me, but I am not a slave to it for that."

Before I started coming here, I knew expat americans. I assumed they were the good ones, those who were fleeing the US because it sucked.

I "hated the US" because I grew up in the Cold War, fearing for my life, and later saw the weaker adversary be the first to extend the hand of peace. I "hated the US" because my intellectual upbringing held US movies, books and politics in contempt. I "hated the US" because I loved my own country (as children do) and saw its strong but small culture subsumed beneath imported US culture. I "hated the US" because I had formed an abstract view of what the US was.

I have more to learn, but now I see the US as a continent and a nation, a cultural efflorescence of diverse parentage, grown fast on the stolen soil of a stone-age culture ... just like my country.

This forum, the patent baselesness of many US-haters, the humble decency of many americans here, has shown me something: nations are bullshit. They are an illusion, a generalization to cover the complexity of individual existence in a world of six billion souls.

You know, that vast majority is losing a very good post, with solid arguments and a valuable analysis of the issues of the euro-american relationship. Jolly good work, old chap!

Thanks. I was puzzling over some things I saw in a Milton Friedman (I guess he wrote, "The World is Flat," I'm not a fan of his, but he makes interesting films) film entitled, "Does Europe Hate Us?"

A stupid title, I know, but one of the constant concepts that cropped up was Europeans saying, "He (Bush) took away my America." That made little sense to me, and so I spent some time puzzling it out. Apparently my search for answers didn't turn out to be the drivel I thought it would be. :p

i'll agree with your assesment to a point.
but dont we give more aid then every other country combined?....

Per head? No. Its a greater amount overall, but per person you're a good bit down the list.





i think it is easy to blame america...out of jealousie....i dont care if gore was in office...we would still be hated.
.


Perhaps, but nowhere near the degree yez are now.

I take issue with the statement of "You give the least per capita"

True, our GOVERNMENT does.. but then, we here in the US don't overwhelmingly believe that government is the cure to everyone's problems.

Our CITIZENS give more time and money per capita than ANY OTHER COUNTRY's citizens.

Perhaps you should get your facts straight before spreading lies about this country and it's people.

For instance, our citizens, in totality, gave over three times as much donations to the people after the tsunami in south asia a few years ago, as every country over there, including China, which, by the way, has 3 times as many people as the US. The amount that the US donated privately, plus the amount that our government donated, was more than China's GDP for 2005.

I'm talking on the order of nearly a trillion dollars.. but it's not enough?

It never is.. other countries take and take and take.. and take some more..

It is a natural human tendency to hate the ones on the top. I've accepted that, but it will not stop me from helping people out as much as I can, but it's NOT the government's place to be a charity organization. That's something for each individual to do, as he or she sees fit.

It has been proven time and time again, that when people have to pay fewer taxes, they are more productive, create more jobs, more wealth for everyone else.

Thanks to GW Bush's economy, the US unemployment rate is less than 5%, while our European "friends" are hanging around the 10 to 11% rate of unemployment.

Ronald Reagan was right.. lower taxes = better economy, the liberals hated him, but history has proven the man right on so many issues, including Peace through Strength, Trust but Verify (where the hell is the verification with North Korea??), and so-called "Reagan-omics"

You have a good point there, Nobel Hobos. Since I got to know many Americans over the internet, they are human and even Republicans sometimes prove they aren't complete assholes.

However, nations are no illusion, trust me, because nothing that has that solid results can be an illusion. I don't have to repeat what the US did when and where, it has all been written already.

So, its not like most of us really badly hate the USA, its more like we hate the things the administration is doing. I hate the views of them, and yeah, some aspects of the general majority in the US.
I mean, even for Americans, the reasons for many people hating the US should be very obvious.

Still, I won't burn down a US citizen when I meet him on the streets, its not that I hate the population of the country, there are many with whom one can discuss really well even about the things that piss me off. Even to those weird people who reelected GWB.


One last thing. Since when do Americans care whether they are hated or not? I mean, try find me on a map :P

It is a natural human tendency to hate the ones on the top. I've accepted that, but it will not stop me from helping people out as much as I can, but it's NOT the government's place to be a charity organization. That's something for each individual to do, as he or she sees fit.

With all due respect, Dauberline, the idea that this is hate for some "top dog" is unfair, and fails to adress the real diplomatic disconnects. It is best to keep in mind that the EU has more purchasing power than the U.S.

Thanks to GW Bush's economy, the US unemployment rate is less than 5%, while our European "friends" are hanging around the 10 to 11% rate of unemployment.

The only thing that Bush has done which has been in any way good for the economy is start a war and continue to spend up the debt. Low taxes are not the key. What is the key is that money is entering the economy via U.S. gov't debt policies. Classic Keynesian economics there.

Ronald Reagan was right..

Far right.

Reaganomics, interestingly enough, were the single biggest validation of Keynesian economic theory I can think of. Lower taxes, increase debt. Watch economy soar. In times of plenty, raise taxes and lower debt (Clinton). It lessens the effect of depressions when you have them.

It has been proven time and time again, that when people have to pay fewer taxes, they are more productive, create more jobs, more wealth for everyone else.

Thanks to GW Bush's economy, the US unemployment rate is less than 5%, while our European "friends" are hanging around the 10 to 11% rate of unemployment.

Ronald Reagan was right.. lower taxes = better economy, the liberals hated him, but history has proven the man right on so many issues, including Peace through Strength, Trust but Verify (where the hell is the verification with North Korea??), and so-called "Reagan-omics"

When you say "our European friends" you have to understand that Europe consists of around 40-50 nations with their own economical problems. You cannot compare one country to so many countries just like that because some of the countries you compare to have suffered many difficulties while others haven't. Just because your country is almoust as big as Europe's you it to Europe.

we tent to be rude when we go overseas, and tend to have an attitude that says America is better than any other country, not just for us, but for everyone. That makes a lot of countries generally dislike us. most hate us because of the events of the last 6 years, and will likely start to feel better about us once we clean up our act.

It also doesn't help that the PMs of Australia and Britain have been quite obviously influenced by Bush, and have been pissing off their own populace.

Thanks to GW Bush's economy, the US unemployment rate is less than 5%, while our European "friends" are hanging around the 10 to 11% rate of unemployment.


Oh yes, given that (as stated in the CIA world factbook), not only some european countries have a lower unemployment than the US, but, iirc, in the US you're counted as employed for the whole fiscal year even if you work just for a month in that year; also, long-term unemployed are ruled out of the unemployment count... it's easy to have a low unemployment if you rule that only some unemployed people count for that.

Thanks to GW Bush's economy, the US unemployment rate is less than 5%, while our European "friends" are hanging around the 10 to 11% rate of unemployment.
It's gotten a lot better. The EU is at about 8%, and that's being dragged down a bit by Eastern Europe which is still struggling with repairing the damage done by central planning.

The first careful estimates are coming out that Germany might get to 3 million (that would be about 7.7%) in 2008, it's going that well.

Ronald Reagan was right.. lower taxes = better economy, the liberals hated him, but history has proven the man right on so many issues, including Peace through Strength, Trust but Verify (where the hell is the verification with North Korea??), and so-called "Reagan-omics"
Actually, economists have spend a lot of time researching what he did. Turns out that Reaganomics doesn't actually work, and the idea has been modified. What was right about it has been integrated into mainstream theory, what didn't has been disregarded.

You have a good point there, Nobel Hobos. Since I got to know many Americans over the internet, they are human and even Republicans sometimes prove they aren't complete assholes.

Hey, I winkled out a new poster who isn't an asshole. I'm pleased :)

However, nations are no illusion, trust me, because nothing that has that solid results can be an illusion. I don't have to repeat what the US did when and where, it has all been written already.

You're referring to the idealistic crescendo of my post, the not too well-thought-out bit. It is my sincere hope that globalization and global communications and increasing prosperity will create a world where every one of us is free of our farm and our parents and our little home-town cucoon, and can choose to live in whatever "nation" expresses our ideals.
THEN we can judge a person by their nation, and a nation by it's people.

*snip some I'm not replying to*
One last thing. Since when do Americans care whether they are hated or not? I mean, try find me on a map :P

I'd like to live in a world where people do what they want, and others' hate doesn't affect them. Sounds like freedom to me.
And I certainly can't find you on a map if you don't set anything in your User CP for Location. :)

The reason many people that aren't American dislike the the US is because they have a completely different perspective than do US residents.

A foreign national living in a different country isn't going to care about tax cuts (incidently, Bush attempted to give tax hikes to overseas US citizens at the same time) and are going to care more about American foreign policy. And American foreign policy was arrogant under Clinton's more restrained reign. The Bush administration managed to surpass that.

If you have people like Rumsfeld or Bolton represent the US, then don't be surprised when their image of being arrogant assholes rubs off on the rest of the US.

Thanks. I was puzzling over some things I saw in a Milton Friedman

*snip*

"He (Bush) took away my America." That made little sense to me, and so I spent some time puzzling it out. Apparently my search for answers didn't turn out to be the drivel I thought it would be. :p

You better spill it now, because Google's got NOTHING.

The reason many people that aren't American dislike the the US is because they have a completely different perspective than do US residents.

A foreign national living in a different country isn't going to care about tax cuts (incidently, Bush attempted to give tax hikes to overseas US citizens at the same time) and are going to care more about American foreign policy. And American foreign policy was arrogant under Clinton's more restrained reign. The Bush administration managed to surpass that.

If you have people like Rumsfeld or Bolton represent the US, then don't be surprised when their image of being arrogant assholes rubs off on the rest of the US.

The US foreign policy wasn't completely ignorant under Clinton. He went in in Yugoslavia to stop the Serbs which was neccesary to create peace there. He also responded to the Serbian offense in Kosovo.

The US foreign policy wasn't completely ignorant under Clinton. He went in in Yugoslavia to stop the Serbs which was neccesary to create peace there. He also responded to the Serbian offense in Kosovo.I never said "ignorant".

I never said "ignorant".

Sorry, misread.

But yes, Clinton used airstrikes for good effect. I can just imagine him bearing down on the chief of staff with "what will make them change their minds, with minimum risk to ourselves or long-term commitment?"
"Nuke them sir"
"OK, without making us international pariahs??"
"Airstrikes, sir"
"Go."

spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam

green eggs and spam

this whole thread is

spam spam spam spam ...

=^^=
.../\...

EDIT: Neu L, go the dictionary for "regarded." Relegated or renounced perhaps. Good to see you here.
Ooop. That's what a lack of sleep will do to you. I meant "disregarded". :p

I'd like Americans more if they were all rightwing gun nuts.

First off, Kinda Sensible People, you are showing the very best of what your country has to offer, good, rational argument and politeness.

I am English, and I DON'T 'hate the USA' But I don't like some of the attitudes that it spreads across the world, from the 'we won the war' thing that wrankles, to the 'If you aren't with us you are against us' attitude regarding so many things. I have met several Americans, and almost all of them were good people, some of them were not so great but, hey...that is nothing unusual, my ex husband is a true asshole and he is English...One thing that has already been touched on that might explain attitudes around the world is that many Americans think that the US is the be all and end all, the worlds best country, Land of the Free blaa blaa blaa...well I love where I live, think it is great, but I can see it's faults, and I don't get bent out of shape when people criticize my government, or it's policies, as I don't always like everything my country does. I don't think that makes me unpatriotic, don't think it makes me any less English. I think that people find the 'The USA is so great you must all live like us' thing that seems to come over to the rest of the world a tad tiresome, I don't want to be able to carry a gun thank you very much...if I did I would have joined the army. I don't want to lose my NHS, and pay through the nose for health care, I do want to keep my own culture and traditions. Also many people from the US come across as very uneducated about the rest of the world. I got to know a great guy on NS, who emailed me and we chatted on MSN, he considered himself to be very well educated and politically aware, and yet he knew very little about the rest of the world, he had no idea who Robert Mugabe is, he had never heard of Idi Amin (this was before 'The last King of Scotland') and he knew very little about the political situations in Africa and Europe.

I think that many Americans read criticism as hate, think that comments about the ludicrous man in the white house as personal criticism and thereby hate of America...

just my two penneth..

The US foreign policy wasn't completely ignorant under Clinton. He went in in Yugoslavia to stop the Serbs which was neccesary to create peace there. He also responded to the Serbian offense in Kosovo.

Incidentally, what happened over there did not threaten our security in the slightest.

Yep. We're all jealous. http://www.reloaded.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/hysterical.gif

You should be. We, after all, have Bob Saget. You don't. ;)

I take issue with the statement of "You give the least per capita"

True, our GOVERNMENT does.. but then, we here in the US don't overwhelmingly believe that government is the cure to everyone's problems.

Our CITIZENS give more time and money per capita than ANY OTHER COUNTRY's citizens.

Perhaps you should get your facts straight before spreading lies about this country and it's people.

For instance, our citizens, in totality, gave over three times as much donations to the people after the tsunami in south asia a few years ago, as every country over there, including China, which, by the way, has 3 times as many people as the US. The amount that the US donated privately, plus the amount that our government donated, was more than China's GDP for 2005.

I'm talking on the order of nearly a trillion dollars.. but it's not enough?"


Really? I think not. The per capita listing is on the right. Perhaps you should get your facts straight before talking about "lies"

http://www.alertnet.org/thefacts/reliefresources/112739777749.htm


It never is.. other countries take and take and take.. and take some more..
?"

...while no nun-raper went without a fully paid training course when Ronnie Raygun was in the chair...

You should be. We, after all, have Bob Saget. You don't. ;)

Who's Bob Saget?

Who's Bob Saget?


yes please...who is he?

why do mass murderers whine that they are misunderstood when confonted with the horrendousness of their crimes?

=^^=
.../\...

Who's Bob Saget?

There are big questions which expand the debate.
This isn't one of them.
Google it.

why do mass murderers whine that they are misunderstood when confonted with the horrendousness of their crimes?

=^^=
.../\... Damn right. Fucking Japs/Serbs/Russkies should shut up!

But you meant the US didn't you… mass murderer? Well at least the blame is being taken from the British Empire.

There are big questions which expand the debate.
This isn't one of them.
Google it.

*googles

Meh, keep him. I'll take Kaya Yanar any day :D

why do mass murderers whine that they are misunderstood when confonted with the horrendousness of their crimes?

=^^=
.../\...

Because they haven't been properly confronted.
Yes, that's a joke. :p
No, you will never get my joke.

Ditch the alphanumeric smilie, or whatever the fuck that fucking thing is.
If you want to be instantly recognized by other idiots, use signatures. Top left hand corner of the page > User TP > Signature.

I'm pissed off, I'm pissed, and I'm pissing off
Now.

:D to everyone! :D

It's gotten a lot better. The EU is at about 8%, and that's being dragged down a bit by Eastern Europe which is still struggling with repairing the damage done by central planning.

Hum, it had 0% unemployment at that time ;)

Its the damages of going from central planning to market economy they are trying to repare, and it can be argued for long if the fault is the one of central planning, of market economy, or of the way the transition was done.

Hum, it had 0% unemployment at that time ;)

Its the damages of going from central planning to market economy they are trying to repare, and it can be argued for long if the fault is the one of central planning, of market economy, or of the way the transition was done.

Mainly the failures of central planning, though. The transition to the market only made a dent in the ever increasing slump that was the East-bloc economic style. The transition was imperfect, but the economic (and incidentally, environmental) consequences of the Soviet-style command economy cannot be ignored.

In my humble opinion, though, any system where 70% of the economic output of a nation is a direct result of slave labor is a pretty crappy system.

The amount that the US donated privately, plus the amount that our government donated, was more than China's GDP for 2005.

I don't know where you found your figures, but they are just plainly unbelivable. China's GDP is around 1/5th of the USA GDP, and it's completly unrealistic to claim a country gave more than 20% of its GDP in foreign aid at once.

Much more realistic figures can be found at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanitarian_response_to_the_2004_Indian_Ocean_earthquake , (it's wikipedia, so not 100% thrustworthy, but at least it's realistic), and in there you can see USA, both public and private combined, is far below countries like UK, Australia, Germany, Switzerland, Finland, ... in term of GDP share.

Thanks to GW Bush's economy, the US unemployment rate is less than 5%, while our European "friends" are hanging around the 10 to 11% rate of unemployment.

US unemployment was below 5% before GW arrived to power, and it went up for most of GW years.

But unemployment is just a very narrow way to look at the reality. In more capitalist countries like USA or UK, the unemployment rate is lower than in more social countries like France or Germany. But there is a big BUT. In those countries, the lower wages are so low that many people with "only" one job just cannot live decently, and need to do one day job and one night job to have the same level of living than you have with the minimal wage in France.

So, let's summarize:

- people who are unemployed are much better off in more social countries, thanks to social help and social security systems ;

- people who only have one low-pay job in more capitalist countries are, money-wise, in a situation comparable to the one of unemployed people in more social countries, but they DO work ;

- people who have two low-pay jobs in more capitalist countries are money-wise, in a situation comparable to the one of people working at minimal wage in more social countries, but they can't have any family life and they damage their health by over-working.

So, in which country the situation is better ? For all those people, the situation is worse than the comparable situation in countries with a stronger social system.

US unemployment was below 5% before GW arrived to power, and it went up for most of GW years.

But unemployment is just a very narrow way to look at the reality. In more capitalist countries like USA or UK, the unemployment rate is lower than in more social countries like France or Germany. But there is a big BUT. In those countries, the lower wages are so low that many people with "only" one job just cannot live decently, and need to do one day job and one night job to have the same level of living than you have with the minimal wage in France.

So, let's summarize:

- people who are unemployed are much better off in more social countries, thanks to social help and social security systems ;

- people who only have one low-pay job in more capitalist countries are, money-wise, in a situation comparable to the one of unemployed people in more social countries, but they DO work ;

- people who have two low-pay jobs in more capitalist countries are money-wise, in a situation comparable to the one of people working at minimal wage in more social countries, but they can't have any family life and they damage their health by over-working.

So, in which country the situation is better ? For all those people, the situation is worse than the comparable situation in countries with a stronger social system.

On the inverse, there is far less structural unemployment in the Anglo-Saxon countries, with a relatively lower cost of living, as forced inflation of prices (through wage minimums and other artificial structures) is not on the same level as with more continental countries. Beyond that, there are very few people on the minimum wage, most of those on the minimum wage are extremely young, late teens and early twenties, and their income is secondary.

There is no gigantic underclass of minimum wage earners, just a percent or so of the total population.

I don't know where you found your figures, but they are just plainly unbelivable. China's GDP is around 1/5th of the USA GDP, and it's completly unrealistic to claim a country gave more than 20% of its GDP in foreign aid at once.

Much more realistic figures can be found at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanitarian_response_to_the_2004_Indian_Ocean_earthquake , (it's wikipedia, so not 100% thrustworthy, but at least it's realistic), and in there you can see USA, both public and private combined, is far below countries like UK, Australia, Germany, Switzerland, Finland, ... in term of GDP share.



US unemployment was below 5% before GW arrived to power, and it went up for most of GW years.

But unemployment is just a very narrow way to look at the reality. In more capitalist countries like USA or UK, the unemployment rate is lower than in more social countries like France or Germany. But there is a big BUT. In those countries, the lower wages are so low that many people with "only" one job just cannot live decently, and need to do one day job and one night job to have the same level of living than you have with the minimal wage in France.

So, let's summarize:

- people who are unemployed are much better off in more social countries, thanks to social help and social security systems ;

- people who only have one low-pay job in more capitalist countries are, money-wise, in a situation comparable to the one of unemployed people in more social countries, but they DO work ;

- people who have two low-pay jobs in more capitalist countries are money-wise, in a situation comparable to the one of people working at minimal wage in more social countries, but they can't have any family life and they damage their health by over-working.

So, in which country the situation is better ? For all those people, the situation is worse than the comparable situation in countries with a stronger social system.

Good post, I would say stuff like that too...but I just don't sleep.

Really why do so many people hate the US? If we hated a country over their we would hate many more countries. Just because Our president is a total dumbass, and we had a Republician majoprity, and the fact that we are in Iraq.

Why do you think that most americans are rightwing gun nuts? I own a gun, I support conceal and carry,but yet i hate the fricking republicans.

There's hate and then there's criticism. Can you tell the difference?

*googles

Meh, keep him. I'll take Kaya Yanar any day :D

He played a TV Dad in a family sitcom in the nineties, and hosted one of those lame home movies shows, which is primarily what he's known for.

More recently though, he was front and center in the film "The Aristocrats", and they just kept coming back to him because the way he told it was so long and vulgar that it just ran totally contrary to that "nice guy" image that existed when he starred on "Full House".

http://www.cbc.ca/news/viewpoint/vp_kinsman/20070219.html

It's not just "on here". It's everywhere...
That article sums it up excellently!

It was just a bit too mild on the role religion plays in the alienation between the US and at least Europe, in my opinion. Christian fundamentalism is doing the US a huge disservice in how it's perceived abroad. Debates over abortion, homosexuality, censorship of "indecent" books and especially that whole "evolution is just a theory" thing - those are things that are to a large part hardly conceivable here. We do have debates about gay marriage (even though they're nowhere near as suffused in religious hate speech as they are in the US) but rabid "pro-lifers" protesting outside abortion clinics and children's books being banned over a "naughty" word or "advocating sorcery" leave us stymied.
That anybody in this day and age would even have a literal understanding of the bible, let alone go so far as to doubt evolution because of it, is to our minds simply and utterly inconceivable. It's like a glimpse back into the dark ages.
The mere fact that there are enough people thinking like this in the US to make it something that is actually discussed in the news there and not just met with a "Why exactly is that guy not in the closed ward?" stare, is mindboggling. It is NOT a topic that would possibly be even discussed here because it is just too utterly, completely, incredibly inane.

I wish I could come up with better words to get across the incredulity with which the average European stands before something like that.

On the inverse, there is far less structural unemployment in the Anglo-Saxon countries, with a relatively lower cost of living, as forced inflation of prices (through wage minimums and other artificial structures) is not on the same level as with more continental countries.

Most prices are higher in UK than in France, especially price of food, transport, electricity and in many cases housing.

For 2005 (the only figures I've right now), inflation was 1.9% in France, but 2.1% in UK (and 2.2% in the euro-zone, in average).

Beyond that, there are very few people on the minimum wage, most of those on the minimum wage are extremely young, late teens and early twenties, and their income is secondary.

According to "l'Expansion" ( http://www.lexpansion.com/art/15.0.140297.0.html ), which is a right-wing newspaper, it is one FORTH of UK workers are forced to have two jobs, at least for part of the year.

And then you forget that many, many people are in forced part-time job. In France, 13% of the working people have a part-time job, but in UK it's 24%. And even if they don't have the minimum hourly wage, they do have a very low income at the end of the month because of that. The high number of people working part-time (not by choice, most of the time) does much more than compensate the lower unemployment rate. The 11% extra people working part-time in UK usually have lower income than many people unemployed in France, and that 11% is more than France's total unemployment !

There is no gigantic underclass of minimum wage earners, just a percent or so of the total population.

No, 1/4th of workers who need to have two jobs. You should check the reality.

That article sums it up excellently!

It was just a bit too mild on the role religion plays in the alienation between the US and at least Europe, in my opinion. Christian fundamentalism is doing the US a huge disservice in how it's perceived abroad. Debates over abortion, homosexuality, censorship of "indecent" books and especially that whole "evolution is just a theory" thing - those are things that are to a large part hardly conceivable here. We do have debates about gay marriage (even though they're nowhere near as suffused in religious hate speech as they are in the US) but rabid "pro-lifers" protesting outside abortion clinics and children's books being banned over a "naughty" word or "advocating sorcery" leave us stymied.
That anybody in this day and age would even have a literal understanding of the bible, let alone go so far as to doubt evolution because of it, is to our minds simply and utterly inconceivable. It's like a glimpse back into the dark ages.
The mere fact that there are enough people thinking like this in the US to make it something that is actually discussed in the news there and not just met with a "Why exactly is that guy not in the closed ward?" stare, is mindboggling. It is NOT a topic that would possibly be even discussed here because it is just too utterly, completely, incredibly inane.

I wish I could come up with better words to get across the incredulity with which the average European stands before something like that.

I was always partial to "Damn, that's whack" with the right inflection put on it.

I wish I could come up with better words to get across the incredulity with which the average European stands before something like that. Firstly, please do not place opposition to abortion or general immorality on the same level as anti-intellectual creationism. In Europe there are different kinds of anti-intellectualism, notable mostly as anti-free-speech laws.

Secondly, your average European varies from country to country. Is he a conservative Calvinist in the Dutch countryside, or a cosmopolitan Swedish media type?

Believe me if you lived here you'd realise "Europeans" frequently spout even worse bullshit than Americans - and are also taken seriously. Case in point: after 9/11 (or 11/9 as it really should be) a major Swedish newspaper explained with poker face that the attacks were really all to do with "US Imperialism" and nothing irrational at all.

In other words, the reasons Americans have disdain for Europe are sadly not completely unjustified. I guess the grass is always greener on the other side to many though!

Secondly, your average European varies from country to country. Is he a conservative Calvinist in the Dutch countryside, or a cosmopolitan Swedish media type?

Uh, no, average. As in, not particular inclined in any specific direction, the arithmetic mean of all Europeans.

i'll agree with your assesment to a point.
but dont we give more aid then every other country combined?
Perhaps (although it wasnt my understanding), but even if we concede the amount of resources labled aid is more than any other country, it's hard to tell what is giving and what is buying, bribing, or coercing, so it's not necessarily something that can be determined.

yes it probably has strings attached....
In a lot of cases it's not strings attached to giving but rather buying, bribing and coercing, if the string attached to me 'giving' you money is that you do somethimg for me, that's not giving, it's paying.

but the average american has a good heart and wants to share our good fortune.
Which is not the point at all. The parts do not always distribute to the whole, it's entirely possible for sweet things to be ingrediants in a bitter dish. One can hate the entity 'the US' without hating all or any particular Americans.

we do pay the taxes,and one can blame us for our elected officials...but then again...we get to choose between dumb and dumber.
You are conflating dislike/hatred of persons with dislike/hatred of an entity. The US isnt simply the sum of the individual people that live there.

americans are by and large decent people and would/do give what we can to the less fortunate.
This still conflates the individual people with the larger entity of which they are a part. It also completely misses the point that what is 'decent people' is subjective. Further, wanting to help doesnt equate with helping nor cancel out any harm caused.

present gov excluded.....or any asshole that pretends to care...trust me they dont.
i mean all of the asshats that pretend to rep the american people.
The fact that the people alledgedly have to choose between dumb and dumber, and that their 'representatives' may not actually represent them are reasons to form a negative view of the US whether or not one views the happenstance as being the result of the failings of all, some, or none of the people who in part make up the entity the US.

most if not all americans care about the plight of everyone else,if not just cause we have it so good.
Caring requires empathy and to be honest the US as an entity lacks empathy. It's not that easy to argue that the majority of Americans excell at empathy either.

tyou can say it is easy to care when you have the money....true...but what about other countries?
Which other countries and what about them? More to the point, how is that the point? The US could be both absolutely awful and the best country on the planet of the earth, so 'look over there at that instead' is an irrelevency so far as evaluating the US (or any country for that matter) is concerned.

i think it is easy to blame america...out of jealousie....i dont care if gore was in office...we would still be hated.
This is the kind of thing that gets peoples' backs-up. Maybe it's a loud minority, but it's far too common to find the response to criticism and disapproval of the US or of aspects or conduct of the US, is to make accusations about 'jealousy'. The assumption here is arrogant and patronising/denigrating. Unless you cannot conceive that others have a way of life that is in their view, as or more satisfying to them than the way of life they might have in the US, the assumption of jealously is nonsensical. The accusation comes off as arrogant, ignorant, petulant and denigrating. How do you think this wouldnt rub people up the wrong way and imply negative things about 'the American attitude'?

The whole jealousy thing is just absurd. The fact is a decade ago there was not this same wide-spread, pervasive, negative perception and disapproval of the US throughout the Western world. People who a decade ago didnt have any particular opinion of the US or in fact had very poitive feelings toward and about the US, now have very strong negative feelings about or towards it. The US didnt suddenly get a heck of a lot better the last few years....quite the opposite. If it were jealousy the gradiant of ill-will/disapproval/negative feeling would be constant. The explanation for the upsurge in negative feelings towards and/or about the US has to account for the upsurge - jealousy doesnt cut it.



However, we enjoy generally more freedoms than any other country.
Do you, please name them. I honestly do not believe for a single moment that my country has less freedoms than the US. I'm more than happy to reconsider the issue in the face of facts and evidence that indicate I am mistaken but without a factual basis, it's a hugely arrogant, ignorant and denigrating assumption that does nothing good for the image of either the US or its people.

Really why do so many people hate the US? If we hated a country over their we would hate many more countries. Just because Our president is a total dumbass, and we had a Republician majoprity, and the fact that we are in Iraq.

Why do you think that most americans are rightwing gun nuts? I own a gun, I support conceal and carry,but yet i hate the fricking republicans.

Why do so many Americans feel the need to ask this question over and over and over?

Why do so many Americans feel the need to ask this question over and over and over?

Yes, can somebody PLEASE finally answer that? I had at least 6 threads about that since I first came here, and they all usually ended with some people feeling the need to play the macho card "Why would WE care what YOU think? You're so utterly unimportant, we could flatten you anytime...", followed by detailed description on what arsenal would be used to achieve that end.

Firstly, please do not place opposition to abortion or general immorality on the same level as anti-intellectual creationism. Except that I wasn't talking about opposition to abortion or "general immorality" (you have got to be kidding me) as such but about the puritanical relish (shouldn't this be an oxymoron?) and religious extremism with which such opposition manifests itself, which is the exact same that allows something like creationism to even gain credence among its followers.

In Europe there are different kinds of anti-intellectualism, notable mostly as anti-free-speech laws. Seriously? Making Holocaust denial illegal is now an "anti-free-speech" law, an exercise in "anti-intellectualism"? Why, who would have thought my neighborhood Neo Nazi thugs have ascended to intellectuals! They'd be appalled if they knew!

Secondly, your average European varies from country to country. Is he a conservative Calvinist in the Dutch countryside, or a cosmopolitan Swedish media type? See Dinaverg's post above.

Believe me if you lived here you'd realise "Europeans" frequently spout even worse bullshit than Americans - and are also taken seriously. Case in point: after 9/11 (or 11/9 as it really should be) a major Swedish newspaper explained with poker face that the attacks were really all to do with "US Imperialism" and nothing irrational at all.

In other words, the reasons Americans have disdain for Europe are sadly not completely unjustified. Forgive me if I find blaming the 9/11 attacks on US imperialism doesn't exactly rival believing the evil librul conspiracy buried fake dinosaur bones in general outlandishness.

I also fail to see how an example that to you seems to signify the gullibility of the European public in a case of political "bullshit" has anything to do with the role of religion in America.

I guess the grass is always greener on the other side to many though!Huh? Wouldn't we all have to have not disdain but admiration for the respective other in order for that last sentence to make any sense here?

Why do so many Americans feel the need to ask this question over and over and over?

Well, some Americans are arrogant pricks who don't like to hear the slightest disparaging comment about our "great" nation. I really don't know what people expect, when we are such a powerful wealthy country who uses that wealth and power in very questionable ways, there will be those from outside the U.S. (and inside as well, though these Americans somehow ignore this) who will not approve of our methods.

Then of course they have self-confidence issues so hearing possible flaws about the U.S. would probably cause a bit of agitation. Might have to ask themselves, "could there possibly be any truth in these accusations?" ;)

People who keep bringing this thread back to life are necroposting...

People who keep bringing this thread back to life are necroposting...

...The thread was posted yesterday...

...The thread was posted yesterday...

It's been on and off for a couple of years now...

It's apparent that most people in their own country hate at least one other country. As proof, I offer John Dowie, who wrote this interesting song:


I'm a British Tourist and I'm very, very rude.
I hate the stinking foreigners

hate their stinking food


I don't like French or Germans

I don't care for Belgians much
But worst of all worst of all

I hate the Dutch


The Dutch, the Dutch
I hate them worse than dogs.

They live in windmills
and mince around in clogs.


They don't have any manners

They don't say 'thanks' or 'please'
all they eat is tulips
and stinking gouda cheese...


I'm a British tourist with a countenance severe

I love to strike the foreign type
And box their poxied ears


But there's one woggy dago

I cannot bear to touch
The slimy crawling

stench appalling
snotty grotty Dutch


The Dutch are mad
Their fingers stuck in dikes

They use the wrong side of the road

And ride around on bikes


They don't have any manners,
don't have any brains.

There's only one race worse than them
and that's... THE DANES!

Firstly, please do not place opposition to abortion or general immorality on the same level as anti-intellectual creationism.

Well, it's true that opposition to abortion is more rational than creationism - that said, it doesn't change the fact this opposition creates a lot of harm to women, and his therefore unacceptable for me.

But while it's true than in some part of the world (like Latin America), abortion and creationism are very disjointed (in all of Latin America except Cuba, abortion is very strictly limited if not totally forbidden, while creationism is seen nearly as ridiculous than in Europe...), in USA, it's mostly the same people who oppose abortion and who support creationism. Of course, "mostly", there are people who only do one.

In Europe there are different kinds of anti-intellectualism, notable mostly as anti-free-speech laws.

There is no real "anti-free-speech law" in Europe. Free speech, as every freedom, has to have limits. You can't call publically for murder, you can't say things you know to be false in order to harm someone, and, in many countries of Europe, you can't call for racial hatred, or negate the truth of a "crime against humanity". Those are sane limits, and the exact limits to put are of course open to discussion, but 100% free speech is just as silly as any absolute, unlimited freedom. Every freedom stops where another freedom starts.

Case in point: after 9/11 (or 11/9 as it really should be) a major Swedish newspaper explained with poker face that the attacks were really all to do with "US Imperialism" and nothing irrational at all.

Well, that's not false. The attacks really were a consequence of US imperialism (both directly because Bin Laden was created by the CIA during the US-USSR fights in Afghanistan, and indirectly because it's the US imperialism which was the reason behind the crime). And striking at the heart of the US economical (twin towers) and military (pentagon) power was, from their point of view, very rational.

But being rational doesn't make you right, nor does it make a crime less a crime. Hitler was very rational in the way he planned and organised the genocide of the jews, that doesn't make his crimes less horrible.

The worse criminals tend to be very rational, at least when ploting their crimes, because else they fail to do much harm before being stopped.

Why do so many Americans feel the need to ask this question over and over and over?

Seriously, I think this is the best question yet...and no one ever really addresses it.

Seriously, I think this is the best question yet...and no one ever really addresses it.

I don't feel the need to ask it. Nor do I care who doesn't like the US.

Whoever doesn't like the US will just have to suffer through it.

Uh, no, average. As in, not particular inclined in any specific direction, the arithmetic mean of all Europeans.

Exactly what percentage of 'Europeans' are 'average' Europeans in the sense you have just described?

Except that I wasn't talking about opposition to abortion or "general immorality" (you have got to be kidding me) as such but about the puritanical relish (shouldn't this be an oxymoron?) and religious extremism with which such opposition manifests itself, which is the exact same that allows something like creationism to even gain credence among its followers. Indeed that is A Bad Thing.

Seriously? Making Holocaust denial illegal is now an "anti-free-speech" law, an exercise in "anti-intellectualism"? Why, who would have thought my neighborhood Neo Nazi thugs have ascended to intellectuals! They'd be appalled if they knew! Not just holocaust denial (no one has ever explained why it should be illegal, beyond "I don't like it". Religious hatred bills, racial hatred bills, the French Armenian denial bills, upcoming Bosnian denial bills, and of course wasting courts' time putting a man on trial who privately said Islam was a "wicked and vicious faith", something many people say in private anyway.

See Dinaverg's post above. Ah, you meant the mean average. I see!

Forgive me if I find blaming the 9/11 attacks on US imperialism doesn't exactly rival believing the evil librul conspiracy buried fake dinosaur bones in general outlandishness. In itself it doesn't. However, combine it with all the other nutty beliefs floating around in deadly seriousness and it does begin to.

The kind of "liberals" (excluding Lib Dems of course) you find in much of Europe couldn't cook up a conspiracy anyway! Poor John Locke must be turning in his grave.

I also fail to see how an example that to you seems to signify the gullibility of the European public in a case of political "bullshit" has anything to do with the role of religion in America. Pointing out that gullibility to different kinds of bullshit is prevalent on both sides of the pond, and for Europeans to berate Americans on it (or vice versa) is a mild exercise in hypocrisy. And many Europeans are bowing to intolerant religious minorities just as are the Americans. Brigitte Bardot got fined a whack of money for "insulting Islam" - something you'd expect to happen in Pakistan.

Huh? Wouldn't we all have to have not disdain but admiration for the respective other in order for that last sentence to make any sense here? Context meaning you (American?) and me. American liberals and European conservatives.

I don't feel the need to ask it. Nor do I care who doesn't like the US.

Whoever doesn't like the US will just have to suffer through it.

We could just say that anyone who doesn't like anything about any particular country should just shut up. No nation is perfect after all so maybe no one should cast any stones.

It's been on and off for a couple of years now...

This thread, right here. If we include past reincarnations, what posts don't constitute necromancy?

This thread, right here. If we include past reincarnations, what posts don't constitute necromancy?

And that, is the perennial problem with NS General.

And that, is the perennial problem with NS General.

And you needed to tell us this?

We could just say that anyone who doesn't like anything about any particular country should just shut up. No nation is perfect after all so maybe no one should cast any stones.

Some nations are less perfect than others.

I don't feel the need to ask it. Nor do I care who doesn't like the US. This is, frankly, the better attitude to have.

[hijack]Ooh, ooh, I have a question... why does everybody hate the moderators?

;) [/end hijack]

Not just holocaust denial (no one has ever explained why it should be illegal, beyond "I don't like it").

Denying the holocaust is harmful for the society, it's hard to say otherwise. When something is harmful for society, it makes sense to outlaw it, if outlawing it doesn't create more harm than the harm prevented. It's arguable how much harm is prevented, and how much is created, by forbidding holocaust denial, but IMHO much more is prevented than created.

Religious hatred bills, racial hatred bills,

The french law, because that's the one I know, fobrids to publically "incitate to hatred because of religion, sex or race". Incitating to hatred is not something sane anyway, and I do think forbiding it prevents more harm than what it creates. Religious or racial hatred speeches lead to violence and sometimes even murder, we know that.

the French Armenian denial bills, upcoming Bosnian denial bills,

Well, if you forbid the denial of a genocide, then you should forbid the denial of all of them. The question is a general one, it makes no sense to allow one but forbid the other.

and of course wasting courts' time putting a man on trial who privately said Islam was a "wicked and vicious faith", something many people say in private anyway.

The french law doesn't forbid anything in private. It's linked to the law on the press, and it only covers public expression, not what you do in private. Of course, you may have trial for stupid reasons and broad interpretation of laws, but that's more a US speciality than a french one (even if it does happen in France too) ;)

But what surprise me more is that the people who critize the french law against racial hatred/holocaust denial don't say anything against the law passed by Sarkozy making "lack of respect" to a policeman worth 6 months of jail... you can go to jail for insulting a policeman, but you shouldn't for incitating hatred against millions of people because of their skin color/religion/sex/sexual orientation/whatever ?

[hijack]Ooh, ooh, I have a question... why does everybody hate the moderators?

;) [/end hijack]



I don't hate the moderators...

*looks over shoulder*

...just the fact that they have avatars and we don't. ;)

Some nations are less perfect than others.

He seemed to be suggesting that people shouldn't be criticizing the U.S. I consider that to be a faulty assertion. Any nation, group, etc., is up for ridicule. People simply have to learn to accept that not everyone is going to like every move their government makes. I tell you, everytime someone tries to suggest that America is perfect it makes me want to sit down and make out a list of everything that makes that untrue.

Though I do agree that there are plenty of nations that are more worthy for criticism then the U.S. but most of those do not have our power or influence.

I'm jealous of their avvies...

That's two! :p

EDIT: I'm being really Time Warpish lately... : /

[hijack]Ooh, ooh, I have a question... why does everybody hate the moderators?

;) [/end hijack]

I'm jealous of their avvies...

He seemed to be suggesting that people shouldn't be criticizing the U.S. I consider that to be a faulty assertion. Any nation, group, etc., is up for ridicule. People simply have to learn to accept that not everyone is going to like every move their government makes. I tell you, everytime someone tries to suggest that America is perfect it makes me want to sit down and make out a list of everything that makes that untrue.

Though I do agree that there are plenty of nations that are more worthy for criticism then the U.S. but most of those do not have our power or influence.

My personal feeling is that these threads are usually started to 1) rant about how unfair it is to criticize the US 2) bolster the self-esteem of the RAH RAH U.S. FOREVER SEMPER FI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! crowd and usually end up with 3) honest assessments, 4) assholes' assessments and 5) honest assessments by assholes.

Really, the criticism of the US is easy to find; why invite more? ;)

why is it always people who've only been on here for a couple of weeks who think that everyone hates americans? and why do they always confuse criticism of the US state with hatred of the country as a whole, people included?

The issue of why people hate the U.S can be summed up in two words...

"Dawsons Creek" :mp5:

I don't hate the moderators...

*looks over shoulder*

...just the fact that they have avatars and we don't. ;)

Quoted for mighty truth.

If I don't get an avatar I tihnk one of the mods should use this (http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q100/TheSteveslols/boom8fo8ne6xy.gif) one, cos it's awesome.

why is it always people who've only been on here for a couple of weeks who think that everyone hates americans? and why do they always confuse criticism of the US state with hatred of the country as a whole, people included?

A lot of new Americans on here have probably never frequented a message board with such a proportionatly high number of non-Americans. It can be a little surprising at first, and certainly jarring to the typical "Flag Waving American".

It surprised me a little when I first got here...but I didn't make a fucking thread about it. :rolleyes: :p

Denying the holocaust is harmful for the society, it's hard to say otherwise. When something is harmful for society, it makes sense to outlaw it, if outlawing it doesn't create more harm than the harm prevented. It's arguable how much harm is prevented, and how much is created, by forbidding holocaust denial, but IMHO much more is prevented than created. Harmful to society eh? Well there goes drink, homosexuality, skimpy clothing and radical political movements.

All of which, arguably, cause much greater harm than some conspiracy theorist preaching to the wall about his faulty mathematics as regards deaths. But we shouldn't ban them either.

The french law, because that's the one I know, fobrids to publically "incitate to hatred because of religion, sex or race". Incitating to hatred is not something sane anyway, and I do think forbiding it prevents more harm than what it creates. Religious or racial hatred speeches lead to violence and sometimes even murder, we know that. I was more talking about the British law, which is worded so vaguely it could encapsulate many things and waste courts' time.

Well, if you forbid the denial of a genocide, then you should forbid the denial of all of them. The question is a general one, it makes no sense to allow one but forbid the other. Yes, Pandora's Box has indeed been opened.

I wonder what this means for scientists who question the official line on what our ancestors did to neanderthals?



The french law doesn't forbid anything in private. It's linked to the law on the press, and it only covers public expression, not what you do in private. Of course, you may have trial for stupid reasons and broad interpretation of laws, but that's more a US speciality than a french one (even if it does happen in France too) ;) Again, I meant the UK law - but banning public expression which does not breach the peace or cause violence is the mark of repression.

But what surprise me more is that the people who critize the french law against racial hatred/holocaust denial don't say anything against the law passed by Sarkozy making "lack of respect" to a policeman worth 6 months of jail... you can go to jail for insulting a policeman, but you shouldn't for incitating hatred against millions of people because of their skin color/religion/sex/sexual orientation/whatever ? The policeman law doesn't get press time so people don't know about it.

But at least they don't have a "respect tsar" *cringes*.

The issue of why people hate the U.S can be summed up in two words...

"Dawsons Creek" :mp5:

I blame the UK for Teletubbies.

He seemed to be suggesting that people shouldn't be criticizing the U.S. I consider that to be a faulty assertion. Any nation, group, etc., is up for ridicule. People simply have to learn to accept that not everyone is going to like every move their government makes. I tell you, everytime someone tries to suggest that America is perfect it makes me want to sit down and make out a list of everything that makes that untrue.

Though I do agree that there are plenty of nations that are more worthy for criticism then the U.S. but most of those do not have our power or influence.
As an American, I find it profoundly unpatriotic for any of my fellow citizens to suggest that the US should be free from criticism. That suggestion conflicts with the most sacred founding ideals of our country.

As Americans, we don't just have the freedom to criticize our nation and our government...we have a DUTY to do so. Any American who fails to seriously and critically examine what our country is up to is an American who is failing at their most fundamental civic responsibility. Any American who fails to clearly and loudly object to misdeeds and errors by our government is failing as a citizen.

Our government is of the people. Our nation is our responsibility. When our country fucks up, we should not wait for other countries to point out our error. We should be the first to see it, and the first to fix it in whatever way is necessary.

I blame the UK for Teletubbies.

The company that brought us The teletubbies also brought us the magic and woner that is 'POB', so it evens out. The U.S also brought us that show about four hookers and their mum - Sex and the city, and the Antiques Roadshow (or Desperate housewives).

It's common for inferior people to have bad feelings toward their superiors. It's just the curse of being the greatest nation on earth. Deal with it.

It's common for inferior people to have bad feelings toward their superiors. It's just the curse of being the greatest nation on earth. Deal with it.


A place like New Orleans one year on still a hell hole in the 'Greatest nation on earth' and corrupt elections. Sounds more like a mid African country.

It's common for inferior people to have bad feelings toward their superiors. It's just the curse of being the greatest nation on earth. Deal with it.

We're just jealous of your huge red, white and blue penises.

The issue of why people hate the U.S can be summed up in two words...

"Dawsons Creek" :mp5:

I'd have gone with "American Idol" but I like yours better. :)

jealous mo-fo's

I blame the UK for Teletubbies.

Screw Texas Chainsaw Massacre. Teletubbies is fecking terrifying.

jealous mo-fo's

Jealous of what?

A place like New Orleans one year on still a hell hole in the 'Greatest nation on earth' and corrupt elections. Sounds more like a mid African country.
You're just jealous.

We're just jealous of your huge red, white and blue penises.

I knew it.

Jealous of what?

Our nation's wealth, military power and BALLS.

Though I must admit Australia's got a pair too.

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/3945/20040701mallsballsad0.jpg

Our nation's wealth, military power and BALLS.

Wealth - www.finfacts.com/.../article_10009067.shtml

Military power - Veitnam and Osama still alive

Balls - well thats true. Even the women have testicles in most US states.

Wealth - www.finfacts.com/.../article_10009067.shtml Fix yer link. Anyway, the US has the biggest GDP of any nation on earth.

Military power - Veitnam and Osama still alive Yeah, because the US is too nice. We're too merciful. We don't just rain nukes down on anyone who looks at us funny like we should. Hell, we don't even produce strategic bioweapons anymore. Sure we've gone soft, but we could defeat the conventional military of any nation on earth.

Balls - well thats true. Even the women have testicles in most US states.
No they don't. You'd know that if you would just watch American porn (the sexiest porn on earth). Our porn doesn't include screwing chickens or pooping on people, so I guess most European men aren't interested.

As an American, I find it profoundly unpatriotic for any of my fellow citizens to suggest that the US should be free from criticism. That suggestion conflicts with the most sacred founding ideals of our country.

As Americans, we don't just have the freedom to criticize our nation and our government...we have a DUTY to do so. Any American who fails to seriously and critically examine what our country is up to is an American who is failing at their most fundamental civic responsibility. Any American who fails to clearly and loudly object to misdeeds and errors by our government is failing as a citizen.

Our government is of the people. Our nation is our responsibility. When our country fucks up, we should not wait for other countries to point out our error. We should be the first to see it, and the first to fix it in whatever way is necessary.

I wish others would realize this. I don't think I should plan on such people ever coming to any kind of epiphany however. That would be asking for too much.

Fix yer link. Anyway, the US has the biggest GDP of any nation on earth.

Oy! If we're talking about wealth now, Luxembourg proportionally pwns you all.

Our porn doesn't include screwing chickens or pooping on people, so I guess most European men aren't interested.
Sim Circus seems to be a little more of the European persuasion, it would appear then.

Balls - well thats true. Even the women have testicles in most US states.
I've never understood why "balls" is considered to refer only to male gonads. Ovaries are as roughly ball-shaped as testes. I use "balls" to refer to both ovaries and testes. So it is factually true that nearly all Americans have balls.

When it comes to being "ballsy" in terms of behavior, I would have to say that the majority of Americans probably are pretty "ballsy" compared to the typical citizens of other countries. This is sometimes a good thing, but frequently a bad thing.

Our nation's wealth, military power and BALLS.


I must say, America's military (or their foreign policy, to be exact) is nothing to be proud of.

No they don't. You'd know that if you would just watch American porn (the sexiest porn on earth). Our porn doesn't include screwing chickens or pooping on people, so I guess most European men aren't interested.
I find the majority of American-made porn pretty lame, myself. The sexual hangups in our culture result in most porn being transparently about pandering to the tiny, tiny egos of American hetero men who urgently need to feel big and manly and powerful. And when your target audience is insecure heteroboys, pretty much everybody else is going to be bored to tears with your product. :D

And when your target audience is insecure heteroboys, pretty much everybody else is going to be bored to tears with your product. :D

Which is why our gigantic porn industry makes smut for people with all tastes. God bless America. :cool:

I must say, America's military (or their foreign policy, to be exact) is nothing to be proud of.

Oh, our military's great...it's just the people at the top who suck. All the best troops and equipment in the world are useless if the people who command it are incompetent.

I find the majority of American-made porn pretty lame, myself. The sexual hangups in our culture result in most porn being transparently about pandering to the tiny, tiny egos of American hetero men who urgently need to feel big and manly and powerful. And when your target audience is insecure heteroboys, pretty much everybody else is going to be bored to tears with your product. :D

*shrug* The internet is a big place. And it's filled to the brim with porn.

This thread has gone from arguing about which nation is better to arguing about porn. My work here is done.

*shrug* The internet is a big place. And it's filled to the brim with porn.

I can't wait until the internet goes interactive...that will unleash porn we can only dream of now.

We're just jealous of your huge red, white and blue penises.

Though it is true we would want them in the usual place, rather than on the forehead.....

First off i don't hate the US, I dislike the Goverment, a lot of your culture, and a lot of the people we see over hear.

First the goverment, as aanti-imperialist soclaist you can probably guess why I don't like your goverment, I lvoe the principles it's foudned on but the checks and balances are being eroded and it's now just become a very polerised system which has no real ideology behind it.

Plus you have Bush, and you current goverments foreign policy is something I really, really dislike.

Second: The Culture and the arrogance. A lot fo US culture has arrived in britian, soem of tis brilliant, like Futureama, Jackass.... Great stuff. But a lot of it is just aptronising. and that my real big problem with America, the arrogance and the patrionising attude. by that I eman the complete ignorance of anything otuside the US, the balif that the US is the best, the over-the-top religion. The people who nominate people like Lee as the greatest general of all time, who think that England is Britian, who call england 'quaint' who....well watch Borat and you'll get an idea why people dislike a lot of Americans.

Finally, the people. Most, a large majority are great, I knwo a lot of American thanks to Menwith Hill and moist of them are sound. but then you ahev those guys mams and some of the kids. Arrogance isn't the word for it, loud, annoying, foolish (not stupid), to give you an example.

Where I lvie we have a lot of American becuase you aheva base nearby, now every year we have a festable called the dickensian, I'm sure you can imagine what it includes, it basically turns grassington back to the times of Dickens, no cars are allowed, lots of stalls, badns on, torchlit perade, kid running about as shoe shine boy and whatever.

I work for a cafe nearby and I was collecting the bill from this American women, whot ried to pay me in dollars. When I refused and asked for pounds she roundly abused me, refusing to accept that we didn't take dollars (Dollars are the worlds currency hunny, look, $2 is probably worth mroe than £2 anyway.) Then, when we still refused to accept she had a strop and began to rail against everything British, giving me the classic comment that I would be speaking german if it wasn't for the Americans and I should be glad to accept 'real money'.

You can see how experiences can colour someones ideas of Americans.

Of course your nto all like that, many of the ones I know from Rugby are brillaint guys, and the American humor is brilliant at times. But even so...

First off i don't hate the US, I dislike the Goverment, a lot of your culture, and a lot of the people we see over hear.

First the goverment, as aanti-imperialist soclaist you can probably guess why I don't like your goverment, I lvoe the principles it's foudned on but the checks and balances are being eroded and it's now just become a very polerised system which has no real ideology behind it.

Plus you have Bush, and you current goverments foreign policy is something I really, really dislike.

Second: The Culture and the arrogance. A lot fo US culture has arrived in britian, soem of tis brilliant, like Futureama, Jackass.... Great stuff. But a lot of it is just aptronising. and that my real big problem with America, the arrogance and the patrionising attude. by that I eman the complete ignorance of anything otuside the US, the balif that the US is the best, the over-the-top religion. The people who nominate people like Lee as the greatest general of all time, who think that England is Britian, who call england 'quaint' who....well watch Borat and you'll get an idea why people dislike a lot of Americans.

Finally, the people. Most, a large majority are great, I knwo a lot of American thanks to Menwith Hill and moist of them are sound. but then you ahev those guys mams and some of the kids. Arrogance isn't the word for it, loud, annoying, foolish (not stupid), to give you an example.

Where I lvie we have a lot of American becuase you aheva base nearby, now every year we have a festable called the dickensian, I'm sure you can imagine what it includes, it basically turns grassington back to the times of Dickens, no cars are allowed, lots of stalls, badns on, torchlit perade, kid running about as shoe shine boy and whatever.

I work for a cafe nearby and I was collecting the bill from this American women, whot ried to pay me in dollars. When I refused and asked for pounds she roundly abused me, refusing to accept that we didn't take dollars (Dollars are the worlds currency hunny, look, $2 is probably worth mroe than £2 anyway.) Then, when we still refused to accept she had a strop and began to rail against everything British, giving me the classic comment that I would be speaking german if it wasn't for the Americans and I should be glad to accept 'real money'.

You can see how experiences can colour someones ideas of Americans.

Of course your nto all like that, many of the ones I know from Rugby are brillaint guys, and the American humor is brilliant at times. But even so...

Hey! What's with the hijack?! This thread is about porn. Go post your OWN topic.

Oh, wait...

Hey! What's with the hijack?! This thread is about porn. Go post your OWN topic.

Oh, wait...

:D... see some Americans (I presume your american) can be funny.

*shrug* The internet is a big place. And it's filled to the brim with porn.
Yep. It's a damn good thing, too, otherwise I might actually be reduced to paying for porno. And that would be a crying shame.

You are feeling quite smug at the moment aren't you? :D

I can't take credit. The healing power of porn worked through me, but ultimately all the glory and praise belongs to the porn. Hallelujia.

This thread has gone from arguing about which nation is better to arguing about porn. My work here is done.

You are feeling quite smug at the moment aren't you? :D

Which is why our gigantic porn industry makes smut for people with all tastes. God bless America. :cool:

Meh, what do I care what nationalities are fucking on my screen?
I've yet to find good USAmerican Hentai, though.

Meh, what do I care what nationalities are fucking on my screen?
I've yet to find good USAmerican Hentai, though.

Tell us if you do find it.

Although at the heart of it, your comment is right on, from an international perspective, you couldn't be more wrong.

To other countries outside the one you live in, the government is all there is to your country. They are the face that other nations see; it is the policies of your government that other nations will judge yours by. This is especially true in a representative republic like the US, where it is assumed that the leadership has the approval of (and therefore represents the nature of) the majority of the people.

No, those are pretty stupid reasons. There's more to a country than its government.

I own a gun, I support conceal and carry,but yet i hate the fricking republicans.same here.

I've yet to find good USAmerican Hentai, though.give me your email. :D

People have hated America for a long time. This is not an issue since 2003. The Americans have had a hawkish foreign policy for many a decade. Think back to the U.S. intervention in Iran in the '50s, overthrowing ther democratically-elected government of Mossadegh, in order to replace him with the psychotic regime of the Shah. Replace Iran with Chile (Pinochet), Nicaragua (Contras), South Vietnam (Ngo Dinh Diem), Afghanistan (Osama bin Laden and the Mujahideen), and supplied weapons to an untold number of other psychotic regimes, such as Ayatollah Khomeini, Saddam Hussein, Israel throughout its history, and other regimes through Asia and South America. Bush is simply a new incarnation of old imperialism.

give me your email. :D

Just TG me the links if you know where to find some :D

Just TG me the links if you know where to find some :D

QFT.

i think the sudan is a bit worse then america,,go to nyc sometime...you may find that most americans are decent fun loving people,,,but what do i know...you seem to know it all.
The way the people of NYC treated Borat - I'd have to disagree :p

Oh and it's because it's so easy to do, because of the various fuckups and yet an international façade of being the best country in the universe etc. etc.

Although "hating the US" and "disagreeing with its foreign policy and some aspects of its internal policy" are a bit different, you know.

Oh, plus you ruined a perfectly alright language to make it easy for the illiterate inbreds who arrived to your lands. Shame, really.

Oh, plus you ruined a perfectly alright language to make it easy for the illiterate inbreds who arrived to your lands. Shame, really.

And they still can't spell it, even after making it so easy now. ;)

[QUOTE=Bottle;12350470]I've never understood why "balls" is considered to refer only to male gonads. Ovaries are as roughly ball-shaped as testes. I use "balls" to refer to both ovaries and testes. So it is factually true that nearly all Americans have balls.QUOTE]

So the feminist mad party has had their say. Go back to your cloud sweatheart.

Most of what deserves to be said on this topic has been said already (plus a bunch that probably didn't deserve to be said--see the whole porn hijack), but I wanted to go back to a point that was made somewhere in the vicinity of page 5 (there are a lot now...) that the US doesn't have a homogeneous, tradition-bound culture. That's quite true. The US has had its culture altered by successive waves of new social ingredients (with immigration and changing sociopolitical climates) and repeatedly so, with the result that there is really very little that we can point to and call it distinctly "American" (or USian, if you prefer...). The consequence of this is that this country is so used to being in a state of flux that we have, in some ways, adopted it, for better or worse, as our identity. We are the nation of rapid innovation, oftentimes Darwinian economic growth, frontierism, rapid expansion, progress, cultural imperialism, fads, flash-in-the-pan celebrities, a new weight-loss strategy every few months, and the shortest attention spans around. The fundamental aspect of US culture has become the lack of permanence. Our culture is not a set of values, traditions, and practices, but rather a continuum of those elements through space and time, and that is a large part of our society's insecurities as well as its dynamism.

I dont hate the US, I just dislike its current Goverment.

So the feminist mad party has had their say. Go back to your cloud sweatheart.
Wow, name calling, accompanied by a 'go jump in a lake' style jibe and a complete absence of any argument to back up your objection/s or even an indication of what your objection is. Obviously this puts Bottle right in her place, totally counters her assertions (which unlike yours are foolishly accompanied by supporting reasons of all things), and demonstrates beyond doubt that Bottle dwells in the clouds as opposed to you with your feet firmly on the ground.

When will wooly-headed cloud-dwellers like Bottle learn how unrealistic and away with the clouds it is to make statements backed up by logically consistent, fact-based reasoning? If only everyone could be as grounded as you and stick to name-calling and jibes in order to counter the points others have made and convince others of their point of view. That'd put an end to the mad and apparently (shock - horror) feminist approach of communicating to and convincing others by appealing to reason and facts.

Although you've produced a very powerful contribution that shows Bottle up for the cloud-dwelling wack-head she must be to make statements that she then backs up with reasoning and facts, I do think your argument suffers from a failure to ask the really important question, so in conclusion I'd like to suggest next time to achieve total perfection you add "will no one think of the children?' to your sophisticated and overwhelmingly convincing comments.

*snip*
Perhaps English isn't your first language, so I'll go easy on the spelling.
But leaving as many typos in your post as you do is the text equivalent of picking your nose while talking to someone. Rude and without self-respect.

EDIT: Zagat was funny and correct, but I'd like to add that October 3 is the date of OJ Simpson's acquittal for murder. I assume that's the great event memorialized in the poster's name, not black hawk down. ;)
And Deep World's post was very thoughtful ... I should be making a post like that right now, not nitpicking.

because everyone knows God's on our side. Duh.
jk:p

http://www.affordadornments.com/media/1149.gif

A place like New Orleans one year on still a hell hole in the 'Greatest nation on earth' and corrupt elections. Sounds more like a mid African country.

Thats because the democrats run New Orleans.. Considering the vast majority of damage was in Mississippi, and they've rebuilt far more quickly (still on-going mind you), No press talks about all the lack of problems in MS because it doesn't make good news.

The MS governor is a Republican.

New Orleans: Democrat... and can't seem to get their shit together.
MS Gulf Coast: Republican... well on their way to full recovery.

"oh blame the feds" wrong.. most people fail to realize that state government has much more control over what happens in their own state than the federal government does, and so it SHOULD be, as worded in the constitution, by the phrase (paraphrased) Whatever rights not given to the federal government in the aforementioned paragraphs shall be bestowed on the states and the people of those states.

Gov Barbour seems to be doing quite a fine job in handling the affairs of MS during this awful time, yet, the goverment of New Orleans, with lots more resources at it's disposal, can't even put criminals in jail.. unless of course the criminals are cops, those go quickly (as they should), but what about the other criminals?

I lost everything I owned during the hurricane, and I do mean everything.. the only thing that kept me and my family going, was the fact that I was employed out of state, with a long haul trucking company, and for 4 months, we lived in the truck. Me, my wife, and 2 dogs.. one of which was a 100lb lab/rottweiler mixbreed.. needless to say, cramped, compared to our beautiful 1300sq ft, waterfront home (which, was on a protected bay in AL, and was supposedly not going to receive much in the way of storm surge.. Ooops, they got that wrong).

I, however, did not blame the federal government and sit around with my hands out waiting for someone to give me stuff.. I worked hard, and we bought a new house in January, since the insurance company basically told us, "piss off" to use a British expression (I hope I used it right)

*edit* Yes, we have computers and internet in alabama. And as long as keep the carrier pigeons and gerbils fed, it all works just fine.

Really why do so many people hate the US? If we hated a country over their we would hate many more countries. Just because Our president is a total dumbass, and we had a Republician majoprity, and the fact that we are in Iraq.

Why do you think that most americans are rightwing gun nuts? I own a gun, I support conceal and carry,but yet i hate the fricking republicans.
Because the USA stole my cookie.

Really why do so many people hate the US? If we hated a country over their we would hate many more countries. Just because Our president is a total dumbass, and we had a Republician majoprity, and the fact that we are in Iraq.

Why do you think that most americans are rightwing gun nuts? I own a gun, I support conceal and carry,but yet i hate the fricking republicans.

Great country but you got Dicks and Bushes running your country :D Besides, the mistakes America makes is not one that you could easily say "sorry, my bad".

)Er, no?
And you actually give the smallest percentage per capita, too.



In case you hadn't noticed, NO country, not a single one, zero countries, none at all are universally loved.
I'm afraid you'll just have to come to terms with the fact that you're just as average as Germany, Sudan, Iraq, Serbia, France and Venezuela. Some people like your country, others don't.



Yep. We're all jealous. http://www.reloaded.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/hysterical.gif

Oh, and one thing :

Did you ever notice how many people here say they don't like or even hate the USA and what it does to the world, yet nobody ever seriously claimed to dislike USAmericans on the whole?
Think about it for a moment.

my bad,i can never really articulate what i intend to words...in other words..i suck at trying to make a point.

i was not saying every one hates us or dislikes us because they are jealous,i was saying it was probably part of it...especially countries that are third world economically(i left that whole part out...oops...like i said,i suck at typing and i am even worse at typing a point..)
back to my point...i think human nature is kinda pre disposed to envying what others have,that you want.
i dont presume to think an irishman or any euro would think their country was the lesser compared to america...just as i don't feel the other way.and just like i am not jealous of the french or irish or anyone at the moment...i exspect most our content themselves.

as for thinking about most here not hating or disliking americans...well after some thought..your right.

my only gripe is the occasional thread(post?) portraying americans as reckless ignorant cowboys...slinging lead all over, shouting yeehaw in the midst of the bloodbath of gun violence and racial hatred and homophobia.

most americans are pretty decent people...like everywhere in this world.some good,some bad,some apathetic and self involved.

i agree that i myself sometimes react to criticism of my gov defensively,and that is pretty foolish.
as i have zip to do with my gov,and i am definitately not a fan of gwb.

hopefully i articulated it better this time round.

as an aside...i gave,as my family did..money for the tsunami tragedy...not through the gov.
and conversely..my brother lives in new orleans,and thanks to the help of many other countries,they are doing well now..no thanks to fema or gwb

Cause they'll screw us over quicker than the British will.



That and DRM.

my only gripe is the occasional thread(post?) portraying americans as reckless ignorant cowboys...slinging lead all over, shouting yeehaw in the midst of the bloodbath of gun violence and racial hatred and homophobia.It's unfortunate you don't like it, but it doesn't change that above the individual level, it's a fair summation of how your nation interacts with the bulk of the globe.

I have no doubt several Americans are worthwhile individuals, but the stereotype is about your country's conduct, not the conduct of you as individuals. That'd be like saying all Iranians are corrupt just because there politicians usually are.

Really why do so many people hate the US? If we hated a country over their we would hate many more countries. Just because Our president is a total dumbass, and we had a Republician majoprity, and the fact that we are in Iraq.

Why do you think that most americans are rightwing gun nuts? I own a gun, I support conceal and carry,but yet i hate the fricking republicans.

People hate the US because of retards like you who say "Why does the world hate us?"

The fact that your stupid enough too think it is because of a Congressional Republican majority.... Pre 9/11 we were fairly well liked.... (before 2001) The Republicans took over in 1994.... I'm calling....erm....stupidity on you.

As for the sterotype, they wouldn't get too far classifying us as liberal indecisive pussies, as then Europe would be alienated from any anti-US banter.

Alot of Republicans are against free and open gun ownership.... Alot of Democrats are for lenient gun regulation...... How did a fellow like you ever procure a firearm? Isn't thier some sort of test, concerning basic aptitude and sensibility when obtaining a license? Where do you live? Redneck, Alabama?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/viewpoint/vp_kinsman/20070219.html

It's not just "on here". It's everywhere...

Oh, and I don't care who's puppet you are.

very good link.... sums it up very well

as for thinking about most here not hating or disliking americans...well after some thought..your right.

my only gripe is the occasional thread(post?) portraying americans as reckless ignorant cowboys...slinging lead all over, shouting yeehaw in the midst of the bloodbath of gun violence and racial hatred and homophobia.

Take a look around this forum for about, say, 4 weeks. And count the threads bashing the French, the Italians, Israel, the UK, the EU, Turkey or any other country that should happen to step into the lime light of the international press in those 4 weeks.

You will find that literally every one will receive a hell of a lot of criticism, stereotyping, braindead jokes and outright hatred. The difference between those countries and the USA is, those countries drift in and out of the news and public attention. The USA took great care to be sure to be part of every single news program in every single country on the planet, year round.
More attention, more criticism. That's human nature, too.

I know it's not very nice. I know that at least 2/3s of USAmericans posting here don't reflect the stereotype that the US exports. And the remaining 1/3 are the statistical idiots and trolls that you will find in just about that ratio in every other country as well. But when it comes down to sheer numbers, 1/3 of USAmerican posterss here is still more than 100% of Irish posters, or German posters... so, as a result, we do see a lot of stupid USAmericans here, which can lead to a rather screwed perception of the country on the whole.

I can't be arsed to go back to a thread a couple of days ago and find my own quote there, but I wrote that sometimes it seems that there are a lot of USAmericans trying desperately to make sure people keep stereotyping the whole country.

As an American, I find it profoundly unpatriotic for any of my fellow citizens to suggest that the US should be free from criticism. That suggestion conflicts with the most sacred founding ideals of our country.

As Americans, we don't just have the freedom to criticize our nation and our government...we have a DUTY to do so. Any American who fails to seriously and critically examine what our country is up to is an American who is failing at their most fundamental civic responsibility. Any American who fails to clearly and loudly object to misdeeds and errors by our government is failing as a citizen.

Our government is of the people. Our nation is our responsibility. When our country fucks up, we should not wait for other countries to point out our error. We should be the first to see it, and the first to fix it in whatever way is necessary.

I think that this applies to ANY citizen of ANY republic or constitutional monarchy.:)

Perhaps English isn't your first language, so I'll go easy on the spelling.
But leaving as many typos in your post as you do is the text equivalent of picking your nose while talking to someone. Rude and without self-respect.

EDIT: Zagat was funny and correct, but I'd like to add that October 3 is the date of OJ Simpson's acquittal for murder. I assume that's the great event memorialized in the poster's name, not black hawk down. ;)
And Deep World's post was very thoughtful ... I should be making a post like that right now, not nitpicking.

Right, then first, you ehard of a thing called dislexia, people like you really piss me off, becuase spelling dosn't matter, if your content is good.

So the feminist mad party has had their say. Go back to your cloud sweatheart.
Urmm... I'm pretty sure that Bottle isn't a "mad feminist", and thanks for giving me more ammunition to use against the US -

I dislike, very much, the term "feminazi". I mean... what's that all about?

"THEY WANT EQUAL RIGHTS?? LOLZ NOT ON THIS EARTH SHALL THEY GET THEM FOR I AM A MAN AND I LIKE MY STATUS QUO, CHEERS, BIATCHES"

etc. etc.

The fact that some people *cough* Plutonian Empire *uncoughs* actually blame feminists for their lack of success in relationships is hilarious and maybe it's actually that attitude which is preventing them from bonding with women.

Anyway, that's enough sweeping statements for one post.

I dislike, very much, the term "feminazi". I mean... what's that all about? The nazis burned books, who's to say they wouldn't have burned bras as well?

"THEY WANT EQUAL RIGHTS?? LOLZ NOT ON THIS EARTH SHALL THEY GET THEM FOR I AM A MAN AND I LIKE MY STATUS QUO, CHEERS, BIATCHES"

etc. etc. I know people who have said that pretty much verbatim.

The fact that some people *cough* Plutonian Empire *uncoughs* actually blame feminists for their lack of success in relationships is hilarious and maybe it's actually that attitude which is preventing them from bonding with women. Wouldn't have anything to do with all those American men dating/marrying Jappies as they see them as more feminine… no, not at all!

Anyway, that's enough sweeping statements for one post. Sweeping is "traditional" womyn's work. Patriarch bastard.

Actually I don't see how anyone can be against patriarchy. Who would not want to be ruled by fellows such as this (http://www.pravoslavie.ru/htdocs/sas/image/patriarch-alexiy-ii.jpg)?

Why can't America produce men like that? NO REAL BEARDS IN AMERICA.

*snip* Where do you live? Redneck, Alabama?

This is exactly the type of liberal elitist bullshit I am sick and tired of hearing.

I am from Alabama, it seems it's ok for you liberal types to go around calling white southerners, rednecks, but change it to black, and a different word, and all hell breaks loose.. You know, it seems awfully ironic to me, that while liberals go around calling conservatives "hate-mongerers and bigots" people like YOU spout this kind of tripe. THAT statement you made is clearly bigotted, yet until people like ME get tired of it, and start calling you on it, it'll just continue.

This is exactly the type of liberal elitist bullshit I am sick and tired of hearing.

I am from Alabama, it seems it's ok for you liberal types to go around calling white southerners, rednecks, but change it to black, and a different word, and all hell breaks loose.. You know, it seems awfully ironic to me, that while liberals go around calling conservatives "hate-mongerers and bigots" people like YOU spout this kind of tripe. THAT statement you made is clearly bigotted, yet until people like ME get tired of it, and start calling you on it, it'll just continue.

heh heh heh. Top Gear.....:D

This is exactly the type of liberal elitist bullshit I am sick and tired of hearing.

I am from Alabama, it seems it's ok for you liberal types to go around calling white southerners, rednecks, but change it to black, and a different word, and all hell breaks loose.. You know, it seems awfully ironic to me, that while liberals go around calling conservatives "hate-mongerers and bigots" people like YOU spout this kind of tripe. THAT statement you made is clearly bigotted, yet until people like ME get tired of it, and start calling you on it, it'll just continue.

heh heh heh. Top Gear.....:D

Yeah its true...That top gear did show alot of...worrying material.

And Dauberline...Im not flaming or anything but...I heard you in my head with a 'sweet home Alabame' drawl...

When America started its democracy, England had a King, Japan had an Emporer, Russia had a Czar, ect..

I believe that the founding fathers of America set up an example that paved the way for modern government as we know it. This, along with other things like airplanes, personal computers, and modern steel, is why I beleive that America is the most imporatant and influentual civilization to ever exist. Well actually I would give that credit to the Sumerians who invented civilization, but America definately gets second place.

Proud to be an American!

Unlike many, I can take a joke about where I am from.. However, when the joke devolves into hatred, and intolerance, for southern US citizens in general, I start to have a problem.

We might speak a bit different down here, have different traditions and what-not, but we're still people, not just simply a bunch of uneducated hicks. I am sure that many that have visited the Gulf Coast (not talking New Orleans, that place is like a whole other country) can attest to, we *do* have our vices, but above all, "southern hospitality" isn't just a catch-phrase, we actually do mean it.

We're good people down here, we can take a little kidding and joking, but when the tone of the jokes start to turn sour, we get a little agitated.

When America started its democracy, England had a King, Japan had an Emporer, Russia had a Czar, ect..

I believe that the founding fathers of America set up an example that paved the way for modern government as we know it. This, along with other things like airplanes, personal computers, and modern steel, is why I beleive that America is the most imporatant and influentual civilization to ever exist. Well actually I would give that credit to the Sumerians who invented civilization, but America definately gets second place.

Proud to be an American!

What our founding fathers did, was take the best of several different forms of government, and use that as the basis for what they set up.

Our government as we know it today, is wildly different from what they set up.

They set up a Constitutional Republic, where the individual states had say-so on 99% of the things that went on in said state.

Over the course of the 300 or so years we've been around, our government has been slipping away from that, and towards a more centralized form of Federalism.

This is the way the originals set it up: The People of the State assigned certain rights to the state, the state assigned certain rights to the feds.

Now, however, it's completely bass-ackwards.. the feds tell the states what to do, and the state tells the people what to do. and the people get pissed and try to throw the bums out, only to replace them with new bums, because the federal government is a massive beauracracy with a life of its own now.

What our founding fathers did, was take the best of several different forms of government, and use that as the basis for what they set up.

Our government as we know it today, is wildly different from what they set up.

They set up a Constitutional Republic, where the individual states had say-so on 99% of the things that went on in said state.

Over the course of the 300 or so years we've been around, our government has been slipping away from that, and towards a more centralized form of Federalism.

This is the way the originals set it up: The People of the State assigned certain rights to the state, the state assigned certain rights to the feds.

Now, however, it's completely bass-ackwards.. the feds tell the states what to do, and the state tells the people what to do. and the people get pissed and try to throw the bums out, only to replace them with new bums, because the federal government is a massive beauracracy with a life of its own now.


I agree completely. Thats why I vote libertarian.

When America started its democracy, England had a King, Japan had an Emporer, Russia had a Czar, ect..

I believe that the founding fathers of America set up an example that paved the way for modern government as we know it. This, along with other things like airplanes, personal computers, and modern steel, is why I beleive that America is the most imporatant and influentual civilization to ever exist. Well actually I would give that credit to the Sumerians who invented civilization, but America definately gets second place.

Proud to be an American!

Ever heard to the greeks, the romans...

When America started its democracy, England had a King, Japan had an Emporer, Russia had a Czar, ect..

I believe that the founding fathers of America set up an example that paved the way for modern government as we know it. This, along with other things like airplanes, personal computers, and modern steel, is why I beleive that America is the most imporatant and influentual civilization to ever exist. Well actually I would give that credit to the Sumerians who invented civilization, but America definately gets second place.

Proud to be an American!

priceless:D

When America started its democracy, England had a King, Japan had an Emporer, Russia had a Czar, ect..

I believe that the founding fathers of America set up an example that paved the way for modern government as we know it. This, along with other things like airplanes, personal computers, and modern steel, is why I beleive that America is the most imporatant and influentual civilization to ever exist. Well actually I would give that credit to the Sumerians who invented civilization, but America definately gets second place.

Proud to be an American!

Yeeeah... When the US was founded we also had a Parliament that had stripped the King of almost all political power through two civil wars and a Glorious Revolution, so we were hardly the medieval style absolute monarchy any more.

Also, most of those inventions are things built on from other people's work. When I think of all the civilisations of history (of which the Americans are really a mix of an offshoot of the British, the indigenous peoples and a mass of immigrants from across the world) there are many more that I would put into "second place" ahead of America. Greece and Rome for a start. Ancient Egypt, Macedonia, China...

The United States of America is by FAR the best country. America owns the world economically, and they have the best military force and they don't abuse it like countries such as Germany and Great Britain did. Many foods now enjoyed worldwide either originated in the United States or were altered by American chefs. Sports, Literature, and other parts of the culture is amazing. The history of the country is rich, and the environment is the United States is so diverse. They have the best colleges and education system. Overall, the United States kicks ass. I'm moving there soon.

The United States of America is by FAR the best country. America owns the world economically, and they have the best military force and they don't abuse it like countries such as Germany and Great Britain did. Many foods now enjoyed worldwide either originated in the United States or were altered by American chefs. Sports, Literature, and other parts of the culture is amazing. The history of the country is rich, and the environment is the United States is so diverse. They have the best colleges and education system. Overall, the United States kicks ass. I'm moving there soon.

:rolleyes:

The United States of America is by FAR the best country. America owns the world economically, and they have the best military force and they don't abuse it like countries such as Germany and Great Britain did. Many foods now enjoyed worldwide either originated in the United States or were altered by American chefs. Sports, Literature, and other parts of the culture is amazing. The history of the country is rich, and the environment is the United States is so diverse. They have the best colleges and education system. Overall, the United States kicks ass. I'm moving there soon.

and that is the answer to the original question, as far as I am concerned.

This is exactly the type of liberal elitist bullshit I am sick and tired of hearing.

I am from Alabama, it seems it's ok for you liberal types to go around calling white southerners, rednecks, but change it to black, and a different word, and all hell breaks loose.. You know, it seems awfully ironic to me, that while liberals go around calling conservatives "hate-mongerers and bigots" people like YOU spout this kind of tripe. THAT statement you made is clearly bigotted, yet until people like ME get tired of it, and start calling you on it, it'll just continue.

:eek:
Classic.
:D

When America started its democracy, England had a King, Japan had an Emporer, Russia had a Czar, ect..

I believe that the founding fathers of America set up an example that paved the way for modern government as we know it. This, along with other things like airplanes, personal computers, and modern steel, is why I beleive that America is the most imporatant and influentual civilization to ever exist. Well actually I would give that credit to the Sumerians who invented civilization, but America definately gets second place.

Proud to be an American!

Yep England was some barbaric country. I wonder what invented 'congress' certainly wasnt parliment!
The invention of aircraft goes to the brothers Montgolfier who invented the hot air ballon. Flight is not an American invention...
PC's were also invented by the Germans...but thats cheating unless you dont call the German Engima in WW2 a computer (which it was)
and what is this 'modern steel'? there is no mention of it on wiki. Steel incidentally was invented by the Italians in the early medieval times.

This, friends, is why so many nations, people and inanimate objects hate the USA. They take credit for everything I had a debate with an American who was arguing that they invented air...:rolleyes: They cant even see Global Warming...:rolleyes: Well some can, im being harsh. I like those ones, who can see they didnt invent absolutely everything this world has seen, such as the internet, or the sun....

I got into a debate with an American once who claimed America invented and built Concorde.

After managing to get over my incredulity, I went about showing him how wrong he was. XD

Alot of Republicans are against free and open gun ownership.... Alot of Democrats are for lenient gun regulation...... How did a fellow like you ever procure a firearm? Isn't thier some sort of test, concerning basic aptitude and sensibility when obtaining a license? Where do you live? Redneck, Alabama?
http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=t&ct=us/7-0&fp=45dd16db8f4888dd&ei=LNHdRdnwIpPoqAPUsoXxBQ&url=http%3A//www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2007/02/19/romney_joined_nra_in_august&cid=0

This is exactly the type of liberal elitist bullshit I am sick and tired of hearing.

I am from Alabama, it seems it's ok for you liberal types to go around calling white southerners, rednecks, but change it to black, and a different word, and all hell breaks loose.. You know, it seems awfully ironic to me, that while liberals go around calling conservatives "hate-mongerers and bigots" people like YOU spout this kind of tripe. THAT statement you made is clearly bigotted, yet until people like ME get tired of it, and start calling you on it, it'll just continue.

When you southerners stop calling us northerners liberal, elitist, latte drinking, volvo driving pinkos we might stop calling you rednecks. Until then, Foot in mouth, and head up ass
so whatcha talkin' 'bout?
Difficult to dance round this one
'Til you pull it out From the Tool song Pot, as in pot calling the kettle African American.

I got into a debate with an American once who claimed America invented and built Concorde.

After managing to get over my incredulity, I went about showing him how wrong he was. XD

My latter points exactly...

[QUOTE = Originally Posted by Soyut]
When America started its democracy, England had a King, Japan had an Emporer, Russia had a Czar, ect..

I believe that the founding fathers of America set up an example that paved the way for modern government as we know it. This, along with other things like airplanes, personal computers, and modern steel, is why I beleive that America is the most imporatant and influentual civilization to ever exist. Well actually I would give that credit to the Sumerians who invented civilization, but America definately gets second place.

Proud to be an American!

Yep England was some barbaric country. I wonder what invented 'congress' certainly wasnt parliment!
The invention of aircraft goes to the brothers Montgolfier who invented the hot air ballon. Flight is not an American invention...
PC's were also invented by the Germans...but thats cheating unless you dont call the German Engima in WW2 a computer (which it was)
and what is this 'modern steel'? there is no mention of it on wiki. Steel incidentally was invented by the Italians in the early medieval times.

This, friends, is why so many nations, people and inanimate objects hate the USA. They take credit for everything I had a debate with an American who was arguing that they invented air...:rolleyes: They cant even see Global Warming...:rolleyes: Well some can, im being harsh. I like those ones, who can see they didnt invent absolutely everything this world has seen, such as the internet, or the sun....

Ok, so I know America didn't invent Democracy, but I beleive we were the first people to make it successful on a large scale(we all know what happened to Brutus). 250+ years and going strong...

America did not invent the computer, but I beleive the personal computer revolution as we know it today is American in origin. (Apple and Microsoft competing in the 1980s)

As for airplanes. If you want to be technical, then technically the Wright brothers are attributed with making the first controlled, powered, heavier-than-air human flight. A monumental achievement to say the least.

When I say modern steel, I mean the Bessemer process. There is little doubt among historians that this American-made process revolutionized the world.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bessemer_process

So the steel car you drive, the airplane you travel in, and the computer you are typing on are here today because of America and Americans.

:D Classic

When America started its democracy, England had a King, Japan had an Emporer, Russia had a Czar, ect..

I believe that the founding fathers of America set up an example that paved the way for modern government as we know it. This, along with other things like airplanes, personal computers, and modern steel, is why I beleive that America is the most imporatant and influentual civilization to ever exist. Well actually I would give that credit to the Sumerians who invented civilization, but America definately gets second place.

Proud to be an American!

Aside from the Greeks and the Romans, the British and French, I think outweigh the Americans as "influenial civilizations". After all, the governments of Canada, Australia, etc. are very much influenced by the British; Britain was - definitly before WWI, anyway - the founder of, and, out side the Western US, the main shaper of the Anglophone world (though of course there are a lot of local factors). And France has had an influenal impact in the area of its former empire as well (the Francophone world); ditto Germany (though not compared to others), Portugal and Spain. (Of course, I'm not promoting colonialism - the country I live in suffered from it - but that doesn't mean that colonial powers weren't influential - and they still leave their mark on the world)
Plus in the Ottoman Empire, there were a lot of mathmatical and technological developments, ie guns (not to mention India, which invented the number 0). Britain invented the computer (and laid down most of the world's telegraph systems), France shaped modern dipolmacy; British Common Law is very influential, as is legal systems based on the Napolionic Code.
And that's without mentioning the massive contribution of China to the world.

As for why people "hate" the US... Most of it is the unilaterialist bent to its foreign policy. I think people are for the general values that america likes to stand for, but they are highly critical of double-standards (Gauntamino, etc.). In some areas you could say people hate america because america seems not to stand up to its own standards.

Also, would it be fair to say that there is a bit of anti-Europeanism over in the US? (Not as much as there is anti-americanism in europe, obviously, because europe wouldn't be as pressing in the american people's minds as the US would be in europe's).

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1761965,00.html

http://www.hoover.org/publications/digest/3058211.html

Ok, so I know America didn't invent Democracy, but I beleive we were the first people to make it successful on a large scale(we all know what happened to Brutus). 250+ years and going strong...

America did not invent the computer, but I beleive the personal computer revolution as we know it today is American in origin. (Apple and Microsoft competing in the 1980s)

As for airplanes. If you want to be technical, then technically the Wright brothers are attributed with making the first controlled, powered, heavier-than-air human flight. A monumental achievement to say the least.

When I say modern steel, I mean the Bessemer process. There is little doubt among historians that this American-made process revolutionized the world.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bessemer_process

So the steel car you drive, the airplane you travel in, and the computer you are typing on are here today because of America and Americans.

:D Classic


"Sir Henry Bessemer (January 19, 1813 – March 15, 1898), English engineer and inventor, was born at Charlton near Hitchin in Hertfordshire. Bessemer's name is chiefly known in connection with the Bessemer process for the manufacture of steel." - also from wikipedia - American made process - by an Englishman - born in England.

Classic :p

Democracy - can I remind you of Florida and the 2000 election. Dear God if that's called going strong what the hell are you exporting to the middle east???:eek:

So the steel car you drive, the airplane you travel in,

Almost forgot - besides the Bessemer process being English the Americans can't really build cars for sh*t. If you want great cars: performance, handling go to the Germans, Itaians ans British: if you want reliability go to the Japs and the Germans.

Aeroplanes - Concorde = never to be bettered (rest in peace). Eurofighter - OMG - seen one in action and it is astonishing (hovering without the restraints of the Harrier jump jet, speed etc) and will be about £65million per unit cheaper that the U.S alternative.

That just leaves computers - well Bill Gates is a complete cnut so I reakon we're even on that score.

American made process - by an Englishman - born in England.

Classic

Thats absolutely correct!

The Lightbulb, the electricity plant, modern road paving and ship building(Henry Kaiser), the production line, the automatic gun(machine gun), the combustion engine(steam engine), the telephone, the telegraph, genetic engineering (has fed billions). I could go on...

There are also alot of thing Americans did not invent but made successful. The automobile was made affordable by Henry Ford. The technology to put satellites in space was first preformed by Russia but was perfected and made globally available by America.

*I have nothing relevant to say about cultural animosity between Europe and America. Nor do I defend the quality of General Motor's products today.

Really why do so many people hate the US? If we hated a country over their we would hate many more countries. Just because Our president is a total dumbass, and we had a Republician majoprity, and the fact that we are in Iraq.

Why do you think that most americans are rightwing gun nuts? I own a gun, I support conceal and carry,but yet i hate the fricking republicans.


Why you so worried, about it?

At a guess I would have said that war in Iraq thing, but really just get over it, whats gonna happen, we're all gonna rise up and bomb you're country?

Besides what sort of dumb-arse(that's right I'm English) confusses dislike for that Bush monkey for hatred of an entire country?

So the US has ZERO political clout? Nobody would mind if we withdrew from the UN, cut off all our foreign aid, stopped all trade and pretended the rest of the world didnt exist?


Didn't you do that before the outbreak of world war two....never joined the league of nations, refused to negotiate with other countries, decided to become isolationist and leave Europe (already damaged by World War One) to cope with Hitler. I feel that if America had of stood up to Hitler with their superior numbers of troops, World War Two may never of happened.

Didn't you do that before the outbreak of world war two....never joined the league of nations, refused to negotiate with other countries, decided to become isolationist and leave Europe (already damaged by World War One) to cope with Hitler. I feel that if America had of stood up to Hitler with their superior numbers of troops, World War Two may never of happened.

Thats very true. A part of my history I am not proud of. But if you are going to blame Hitler on America's inaction, then you are aknowlegeing that America was truly the only coutry that could defeat Hitler and you should give America credit for eventually doing just that.

Ok so maybe Russia and England could have done it together, but I'm not even certain Russia would be fighting for the allies if America wasn't.

Thats very true. A part of my history I am not proud of. But if you are going to blame Hitler on America's inaction, then you are aknowlegeing that America was truly the only coutry that could defeat Hitler and you should give America credit for eventually doing just that.


Hehe yeah that's right by engaging their brand new genocide device!

Thats absolutely correct!

The Lightbulb, the electricity plant, modern road paving and ship building(Henry Kaiser), the production line, the automatic gun(machine gun), the combustion engine(steam engine), the telephone, the telegraph, genetic engineering (has fed billions). I could go on...

There are also alot of thing Americans did not invent but made successful. The automobile was made affordable by Henry Ford. The technology to put satellites in space was first preformed by Russia but was perfected and made globally available by America.

*I have nothing relevant to say about cultural animosity between Europe and America. Nor do I defend the quality of General Motor's products today.

Moder road building - "Hooley developed and patented Tarmac in the United Kingdom, and, later, in the United States" (I am a highway Engineer so don't mess with me on this)

Ship Building (modern) - Isambard Kingdom Brunel - Henry Kaiser was only born 23 years after his death.

Automatic weapons (although not 'machine') - "Among first known ancestor of multi-shot weapons was created by James Puckle, a London lawyer, who patented what he called "The Puckle Gun" on May 15, 1718. It was a design for a 1 in. (25.4 mm) caliber, flintlock revolver cannon able to fire 9 rounds before reloading, intended for use on ships. According to Puckle, it was able to fire round bullets at Christians and square bullets at Turks. While ahead of its time, foreshadowing the designs of revolvers, it was not adopted or produced." - plus the Russian Kalashnikov is the most popular I beleive.

Steam engine - In 1769 James Watt, another member of the Lunar Society, patented the first significant improvements to the Newcomen type vacuum engine that made it much more fuel efficient. Watt's leap was to separate the condensing phase of the vacuum engine into a separate chamber, while keeping the piston and cylinder at the temperature of the steam. Gainsborough (English fellow) believed that Watt had used his ideas for the invention, but there is no proof of this.

Watt, together with his business partner Matthew Boulton, developed these patents into the Watt steam engine in Birmingham, England. The increased efficiency of the Watt engine finally led to the general acceptance and use of steam power in industry. Additionally, unlike the Newcomen engine, the Watt engine operated smoothly enough to be connected to a drive shaft—via sun and planet gears—to provide rotary power. In early steam engines the piston is usually connected to a balanced beam, rather than directly to a connecting rod, and these engines are therefore known as beam engines.


Richard Trevithick's No. 14 Engine, built by Hazeldine and Co., Bridgnorth, about 1804. This was a single-acting, stationary high pressure engine that operated at a working pressure of 50 psi (350 kPa).The next improvement in efficiency came with the American Oliver Evans and the Briton Richard Trevithick's use of high pressure steam.[6][7]

Telephone - Alexander Graham Bell - Scotish

genetic engineering (has fed billions). - Dear God - this Frankensteins monster has yet to show its effects.

The production line - I beleive had it's origins in the pin production industry in England - used by Henry Ford in the Motor Industry later.

That leaves you with Sky T.V.

:p

Thats very true. A part of my history I am not proud of. But if you are going to blame Hitler on America's inaction, then you are aknowlegeing that America was truly the only coutry that could defeat Hitler and you should give America credit for eventually doing just that.

Ok so maybe Russia and England could have done it together, but I'm not even certain Russia would be fighting for the allies if America wasn't.

America was the only country that fought in World War One that was not servely damaged by it. Russia would never have fought until Hitler attacked them, Britain had a tiny army due to years of pacifism, France was politically unstable, Italy was allied with Germany but America refused to help Europe when it was at its weakest. If America would have stood up to Hitler (just as Britain and France should have done who are probably more to blame than the USA) Hitler would have been forced to back down, IF it had occured in 1936.

American foreign policy's history is really confused.....when people want their help they refuse to give it, when it isn't wanted they give it anyway....

you should give America credit for eventually doing just that.


Oh and the USA also insisting it could have won World War Two on its own is annoying....no country could have won it on its own.

if you want to know why the USA is hated, you only have to look at it's history. It isn't all rosy, sweet and innocent. The USA is responsible for al lot of problems in it'S history and it brings a lot of emotions.

For instance, I hate the US government because it stole one billions of dollars in illegal tariffs on softwood lumber. To this day, the industry hasn't recovered despite being given back 3 of the 4 billions that they were taxed. See, I don't like an hypocrite who demand that we follow a treaty while they don't follow it themselves. Everybody has his story why the USA is the Great Evil.

Now, ask why everybody hates Israel, hina, Pakistan, Canada, even Luxemburg and you'll hear how these government did something horrible to someone else and you'll understand why every government is hated.

Or, you know, you can continue to live under the delusion that everybody hates the USA and it's citizen (and nobody else) for no valid reasons.

No, those are pretty stupid reasons. There's more to a country than its government.
Tell that to the people of Iran, whom the media paints out to be as bad as their government.

Has this thread become another lame-ass dick-waving fest for Europeans and Americans to wave theirs at each other?

Has this thread become another lame-ass dick-waving fest for Europeans and Americans to wave theirs at each other?

It started off as one, sweatheart. And as far as I can see the Europeans are hanging a inch or two longer that the yanks (athough this may be due to the 'micro-penis' effect that extreme obesity has on a mans member).

Has this thread become another lame-ass dick-waving fest for Europeans and Americans to wave theirs at each other?

Don't blame me. I tried to hijack it and make it about porn a couple of days ago.

It started off as one, sweatheart. And as far as I can see the Europeans are hanging a inch or two longer that the yanks (athough this may be due to the 'micro-penis' effect that extreme obesity has on a mans member).

Grow up. Europeans have done plenty that they should be ashamed of. Look at what happened to Africa during and after European colonial rule. It's just that the education system in the US is piss poor and most don't know that every nation has done some pretty shitty things, and every nation has some things to be proud of. For example their unique varieties of pornography.

Has this thread become another lame-ass dick-waving fest for Europeans and Americans to wave theirs at each other?



Bwahahaha, nationalism, pride, or shit arsed dangerous thought?

Has this thread become another lame-ass dick-waving fest for Europeans and Americans to wave theirs at each other?

Surely you know how this forum works by now?

Didn't you do that before the outbreak of world war two....never joined the league of nations, refused to negotiate with other countries, decided to become isolationist and leave Europe (already damaged by World War One) to cope with Hitler. I feel that if America had of stood up to Hitler with their superior numbers of troops, World War Two may never of happened.

Are you serious!!!!? The British and the French didn't do anything when the Germans put their military on the Rhineland and advanced the military! It is the Europeans fault, not the Americans! The United States didn't need to help us because it wasn't their war! (until they got bombed by the Japs, which made them lose the war. Silly Japs. :p ) They sent us food and aid to the U.K. when we most needed it. If it wasn't for that, Germany would of had all of Europe by then.
And we hate the U.S. because Europe is full of pansies!!!!! Europe was built on war people! How could one little war that has small casualities make a difference!

Hehe yeah that's right by engaging their brand new genocide device!

That was against Japan after Germany surrendered, and alot more would have died when for every step forward the Yanks had a tsunami of kamikaze civilain charging at them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soyut
Thats very true. A part of my history I am not proud of. But if you are going to blame Hitler on America's inaction, then you are aknowlegeing that America was truly the only coutry that could defeat Hitler and you should give America credit for eventually doing just that.
Yeh, pity so many people had to die before they bothered to do owt though, eh?

Don't blame me. I tried to hijack it and make it about porn a couple of days ago.

I know, that's the only positive direction that this thread has gone in.

That was against Japan after Germany surrendered, and alot more would have died when for every step forward the Yanks had a tsunami of kamikaze civilain charging at them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soyut
Thats very true. A part of my history I am not proud of. But if you are going to blame Hitler on America's inaction, then you are aknowlegeing that America was truly the only coutry that could defeat Hitler and you should give America credit for eventually doing just that.
Yeh, pity so many people had to die before they bothered to do owt though, eh?

Ahh yeah I know that I was just trying to get rise.

On a serious note though, and as I asked eairley.

Nationalism, is it just pride in your nation(for what reason I don't know) or dangerous shit aresed thinking.

Heh I'm gonna plump for the latter.

Why should anybody be proud of their country? After all they have no choice where they are born.

Thats very true. A part of my history I am not proud of. But if you are going to blame Hitler on America's inaction, then you are aknowlegeing that America was truly the only coutry that could defeat Hitler and you should give America credit for eventually doing just that.

Ok so maybe Russia and England could have done it together, but I'm not even certain Russia would be fighting for the allies if America wasn't.

Yeh coz if America wasnt possibly going to become involved then no way would have the russians do anything to stop the invading nazis.

And don't blame Europe for trying to improve another immensely costly war.
Another one where yanks were only helpful because of the amount of meat they could chuck in the grinder and their massive war production. Anyone else find it stupid the yanks talk about how much they did in The First World War when they were only in it for a few months, fought very few battles and were using tactics the Allies had refined over years- and then had the cheek to think them showing up was the only reason for victory in 1918?
You know why the Yanks were valuable allies?
More man to send into battle- more fodder to chuck at the enemy guns- and yet they were critical of Britain and France for not willing to throw it's mens live away frivulously anymore.

Thanks Yanks, for having more industry and more apparently expendable men.

Thats very true. A part of my history I am not proud of. But if you are going to blame Hitler on America's inaction, then you are aknowlegeing that America was truly the only coutry that could defeat Hitler and you should give America credit for eventually doing just that.

Ok so maybe Russia and England could have done it together, but I'm not even certain Russia would be fighting for the allies if America wasn't.

Ahh yeah I know that I was just trying to get rise.

On a serious note though, and as I asked eairley.

Nationalism, is it just pride in your nation(for what reason I don't know) or dangerous shit aresed thinking.

Heh I'm gonna plump for the latter.

Why should anybody be proud of their country? After all they have no choice where they are born.

Be proud of what your country men have achieved, there are some nations out there that have done some stuff to be proud of, even the states.

Moder road building - "Hooley developed and patented Tarmac in the United Kingdom, and, later, in the United States" (I am a highway Engineer so don't mess with me on this)

Ship Building (modern) - Isambard Kingdom Brunel - Henry Kaiser was only born 23 years after his death.

Automatic weapons (although not 'machine') - "Among first known ancestor of multi-shot weapons was created by James Puckle, a London lawyer, who patented what he called "The Puckle Gun" on May 15, 1718. It was a design for a 1 in. (25.4 mm) caliber, flintlock revolver cannon able to fire 9 rounds before reloading, intended for use on ships. According to Puckle, it was able to fire round bullets at Christians and square bullets at Turks. While ahead of its time, foreshadowing the designs of revolvers, it was not adopted or produced." - plus the Russian Kalashnikov is the most popular I beleive.

Steam engine - In 1769 James Watt, another member of the Lunar Society, patented the first significant improvements to the Newcomen type vacuum engine that made it much more fuel efficient. Watt's leap was to separate the condensing phase of the vacuum engine into a separate chamber, while keeping the piston and cylinder at the temperature of the steam. Gainsborough (English fellow) believed that Watt had used his ideas for the invention, but there is no proof of this.

Watt, together with his business partner Matthew Boulton, developed these patents into the Watt steam engine in Birmingham, England. The increased efficiency of the Watt engine finally led to the general acceptance and use of steam power in industry. Additionally, unlike the Newcomen engine, the Watt engine operated smoothly enough to be connected to a drive shaft—via sun and planet gears—to provide rotary power. In early steam engines the piston is usually connected to a balanced beam, rather than directly to a connecting rod, and these engines are therefore known as beam engines.


Richard Trevithick's No. 14 Engine, built by Hazeldine and Co., Bridgnorth, about 1804. This was a single-acting, stationary high pressure engine that operated at a working pressure of 50 psi (350 kPa).The next improvement in efficiency came with the American Oliver Evans and the Briton Richard Trevithick's use of high pressure steam.[6][7]

Telephone - Alexander Graham Bell - Scotish

genetic engineering (has fed billions). - Dear God - this Frankensteins monster has yet to show its effects.

The production line - I beleive had it's origins in the pin production industry in England - used by Henry Ford in the Motor Industry later.

That leaves you with Sky T.V.

:p

About:

Henry Kaiser: I believe we can attribute many modern road and ship-building techniques to him(though I'm sure you can correct me on that). It is clear that he is not the father of all modern ship and road construction. I just wikipedied him and assumed too much.

Automatic weapons: The first true automatic weapon from what I understand was the Chu-no-ku or something invented by the Chinese. I said "automatic gun" not weapon or multi shot gun. Though it is interesting to see the amout of detail you provided in your rebuttal.

Steam engine: My bad, I was thinking of robert fulton who invented the steamboat and the submarine.

production line: Sorry, wikipedia says Henry Ford Invented the "Assembly Line."

Alexander Graham Bell: Yes he was Scotish. oops. But he spent most of his life in America, did most of his reaserch in Boston and invented the telephone in America. The first telephone company was started in America.

Bessemer Process: invented by the American William Kelly. Patented by Henry Bessemer.

Genetic engineering: has fed billions. And today its cloning sheep and trying to cure cancer. What an awful thing.

So, keeping score that leaves America with, the airplane, the lightbulb, modern steel production, the personal computer, the machine gun, the steam boat, the telegraph.

I didn't even mention sugan evaporation ( Norbert Rillieux) vulcanized rubber (Charles Goodyear), Cotton Gin(Eli Whitney ), power tools(Thomas Davenport), steel bridge (James Buchanan Eads), Air conditioning (Willis H. Carrier ), Heart Difibulator (William Bennett Kouwenhoven), nylon (Wallace H. Carothers), lasers (Theodore H. Maiman)

Wanna keep going?

*pulls down pants* Also, mine is bigger than yours.

About:

Henry Kaiser: I believe we can attribute many modern road and ship-building techniques to him(though I'm sure you can correct me on that). It is clear that he is not the father of all modern ship and road construction. I just wikipedied him and assumed too much.

Automatic weapons: The first true automatic weapon from what I understand was the Chu-no-ku or something invented by the Chinese. I said "automatic gun" not weapon or multi shot gun. Though it is interesting to see the amout of detail you provided in your rebuttal.

Steam engine: My bad, I was thinking of robert fulton who invented the steamboat and the submarine.

production line: Sorry, wikipedia says Henry Ford Invented the "Assembly Line."

Alexander Graham Bell: Yes he was Scotish. oops. But he spent most of his life in America, did most of his reaserch in Boston and invented the telephone in America. The first telephone company was started in America.

Bessemer Process: invented by the American William Kelly. Patented by Henry Bessemer.

Genetic engineering: has fed billions. And today its cloning sheep and trying to cure cancer. What an awful thing.

So, keeping score that leaves America with, the airplane, the lightbulb, modern steel production, the personal computer, the machine gun, the steam boat, the telegraph.

I didn't even mention sugan evaporation ( Norbert Rillieux) vulcanized rubber (Charles Goodyear), Cotton Gin(Eli Whitney ), power tools(Thomas Davenport), steel bridge (James Buchanan Eads), Air conditioning (Willis H. Carrier ), Heart Difibulator (William Bennett Kouwenhoven), nylon (Wallace H. Carothers), lasers (Theodore H. Maiman)

Wanna keep going?


Some historians believe that it was a Yorkshire man that first invented the aeroplane. Plus it was a Yorkshire man that split the atom. I love this county.

So, keeping score that leaves America with, the airplane, the lightbulb, modern steel production, the personal computer, the machine gun, the steam boat, the telegraph.

Joseph Swan.

if you want to know why the USA is hated, you only have to look at it's history. It isn't all rosy, sweet and innocent. The USA is responsible for al lot of problems in it'S history and it brings a lot of emotions.

For instance, I hate the US government because it stole one billions of dollars in illegal tariffs on softwood lumber. To this day, the industry hasn't recovered despite being given back 3 of the 4 billions that they were taxed. See, I don't like an hypocrite who demand that we follow a treaty while they don't follow it themselves. Everybody has his story why the USA is the Great Evil.

Now, ask why everybody hates Israel, hina, Pakistan, Canada, even Luxemburg and you'll hear how these government did something horrible to someone else and you'll understand why every government is hated.

Or, you know, you can continue to live under the delusion that everybody hates the USA and it's citizen (and nobody else) for no valid reasons.

Yes and I despise Spain for the inquisition, France for Napoleon, England for Apartheid in South Africa and Germany for the holocaust. Come on, Europe's history is just as dirty if not dirtier than America's.

Yes and I despise Spain for the inquisition, France for Napoleon, England for Apartheid in South Africa and Germany for the holocaust. Come on, Europe's history is just as dirty if not dirtier than America's.

England? You mean Britain not England, it's not the same thing.

About:

Henry Kaiser: I believe we can attribute many modern road and ship-building techniques to him(though I'm sure you can correct me on that). It is clear that he is not the father of all modern ship and road construction. I just wikipedied him and assumed too much.

Automatic weapons: The first true automatic weapon from what I understand was the Chu-no-ku or something invented by the Chinese. I said "automatic gun" not weapon or multi shot gun. Though it is interesting to see the amout of detail you provided in your rebuttal.

Steam engine: My bad, I was thinking of robert fulton who invented the steamboat and the submarine.

production line: Sorry, wikipedia says Henry Ford Invented the "Assembly Line."

Alexander Graham Bell: Yes he was Scotish. oops. But he spent most of his life in America, did most of his reaserch in Boston and invented the telephone in America. The first telephone company was started in America.

Bessemer Process: invented by the American William Kelly. Patented by Henry Bessemer.

Genetic engineering: has fed billions. And today its cloning sheep and trying to cure cancer. What an awful thing.

So, keeping score that leaves America with, the airplane, the lightbulb, modern steel production, the personal computer, the machine gun, the steam boat, the telegraph.

I didn't even mention sugan evaporation ( Norbert Rillieux) vulcanized rubber (Charles Goodyear), Cotton Gin(Eli Whitney ), power tools(Thomas Davenport), steel bridge (James Buchanan Eads), Air conditioning (Willis H. Carrier ), Heart Difibulator (William Bennett Kouwenhoven), nylon (Wallace H. Carothers), lasers (Theodore H. Maiman)

Wanna keep going?

*pulls down pants* Also, mine is bigger than yours.


Yes I would like to keep going. Unfortunatley my bedtime has come around (was up at 5am, 8:45pm now and have to be in Darwen (u.k not Oz) by 7:30am), but you know my telegram address. You are indeed knowladgeable and a welcome debate partner. I look forward to speaking again.

It started off as one, sweatheart. And as far as I can see the Europeans are hanging a inch or two longer that the yanks (athough this may be due to the 'micro-penis' effect that extreme obesity has on a mans member).

Congratulations, you proved my somewhat vulgar point.

England? You mean Britain not England, it's not the same thing.

What do you mean exactely? (I'm not going to pretend like I know the difference).

What do you mean exactely? (I'm not going to pretend like I know the difference).

Britain is the Island(s), England is most of the southern portion of the big island, primarily inhabited by English, as opposed to Scots who live in the north, or the Welsh who live in the South-west.

I got to know a great guy on NS, who emailed me and we chatted on MSN, he considered himself to be very well educated and politically aware, and yet he knew very little about the rest of the world, he had no idea who Robert Mugabe is, he had never heard of Idi Amin (this was before 'The last King of Scotland') and he knew very little about the political situations in Africa and Europe.

This is a pretty good point. I think it is true that there are a lot of Americans out there who don't know that much about the current goings-on in Africa and and Europe (As well as a lot of the rest of the world). However, I also think that there are a lot of Europeans who don't really pay attention to them either. An example, I'm an expat and have lived in Asia for the majority of my life and most of my friends have ended up being European (as well as Australian and South African) expats. During summer of 2006, about a week into Israel's invasion of Lebanon, not a single one of them knew that it was happening. Another example, I was living in Japan at one point, but on vacation in Greece and, while talking to the salesman at this one store I told him where I was living. His reply was "Ah, so do you speak Chinese?"

So I'm not really sure where the uneducated American stereotype comes from, but from personal experience, I think that it is as prevalent in other parts of the world.

Telephone - Alexander Graham Bell - Scotish

Sorry no,

Telephone - Antonio Santi Giusseppe Meucci - Italian-American

So I'm not really sure where the uneducated American stereotype comes from, but from personal experience, I think that it is as prevalent in other parts of the world.

There's a couple of places where it originates.

First is the habit of Americans to be loud, and greatly desire to get their opinions heard. We Americans have got a terrible habit of not keeping our traps shut when it counts, and when we're pumping out the wordage we tend to let the stupid out as well. Linked to this is the broad exposure the rest of the world has to Americans and American culture.

Second, and somewhat less importantly, is a more deep-seated stereotype amongst the residents of many European states. Americans were widely viewed as backwoods, moonshine swilling bumpkins during the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries by elites and intellectuals in western Europe. Like all other prejudices, this one is going to be hard to kill as well.

And as per the existing stereotype, the blame doesn't entirely fall on the Europeans of the day. Instead Americans also share a heavy amount of blame, as the culture they presented in Europe did not alleviate the perception in the slightest. Wild West Shows toured the continent, showing a mythical image of the frontier, a primitive and dangerous life quite unlike the civilized and institutionalized lives of Europeans.

Sorry no,

Telephone - Antonio Santi Giusseppe Meucci - Italian-American

Why does every friggin history text book/internet encyclopodieas say that it was Alexander Graham Bell.

And to counterpoint more people, to prove how great Britain is :p :rolleyes:

Shakespeare, Dickens, Lewis, Christie, Tolkein, Rowling.Lord Bryon, Robert Burns, Thomas Hardy.William Byrd , Thomas Tallis , John Taverner , Henry Purcell , Edward Elgar, Arthur Sullivan , Ralph Vaughan Williams, and Benjamin Britten. Brunel, Darwin, Newton, Nelson, Cook, Baden-Powell, Arthur Wellesley (1st Duke of Wellington), Thatcher, Queen Victoria, Fleming, Turing, Faraday, Hawking, More, Aquinas, Henry VIII, Drake, Wesley, Nightingale, Col. T.E Larence (Lawrence of Arabia), Scott (N.Pole), Attenborough, Chaplin, Austen, Watt, Babbage, Raleigh.

Oh and of course DNA - Douglas Noel Adams. Legend.
Hope that settles this feud :p

If you dont know who any of these people are, telegram me, give me some form of private message and ill describe to you just how these people have shaped the present world.

Why does every friggin history text book/internet encyclopodieas say that it was Alexander Graham Bell.

And to counterpoint more people, to prove how great Britain is :p :rolleyes:

Shakespeare, Dickens, Lewis, Christie, Tolkein, Rowling.Lord Bryon, Robert Burns, Thomas Hardy.William Byrd , Thomas Tallis , John Taverner , Henry Purcell , Edward Elgar, Arthur Sullivan , Ralph Vaughan Williams, and Benjamin Britten. Brunel, Darwin, Newton, Nelson, Cook, Baden-Powell, Arthur Wellesley (1st Duke of Wellington), Thatcher, Queen Victoria, Fleming, Turing, Faraday, Hawking, More, Aquinas, Henry VIII, Drake, Wesley, Nightingale, Col. T.E Larence (Lawrence of Arabia), Scott (N.Pole), Attenborough, Chaplin, Austen, Watt, Babbage, Raleigh.

Oh and of course DNA - Douglas Noel Adams. Legend.
Hope that settles this feud :p

If you dont know who any of these people are, telegram me, give me some form of private message and ill describe to you just how these people have shaped the present world.
Uh, America had more great people in the course of it's short existence. (too lazy to name them, Americans should know) Besides, Shakespeare is boring, Drake was a pirate, Tolkein and Rowling wrote friggin books, Henry IVVV is nothing too be proud of, etc. etc.

Why does every friggin history text book/internet encyclopodieas say that it was Alexander Graham Bell.

And to counterpoint more people, to prove how great Britain is :p :rolleyes:

Shakespeare, Dickens, Lewis, Christie, Tolkein, Rowling.Lord Bryon, Robert Burns, Thomas Hardy.William Byrd , Thomas Tallis , John Taverner , Henry Purcell , Edward Elgar, Arthur Sullivan , Ralph Vaughan Williams, and Benjamin Britten. Brunel, Darwin, Newton, Nelson, Cook, Baden-Powell, Arthur Wellesley (1st Duke of Wellington), Thatcher, Queen Victoria, Fleming, Turing, Faraday, Hawking, More, Aquinas, Henry VIII, Drake, Wesley, Nightingale, Col. T.E Larence (Lawrence of Arabia), Scott (N.Pole), Attenborough, Chaplin, Austen, Watt, Babbage, Raleigh.

Oh and of course DNA - Douglas Noel Adams. Legend.
Hope that settles this feud :p

If you dont know who any of these people are, telegram me, give me some form of private message and ill describe to you just how these people have shaped the present world.

oh dear lord, you have instigated more debate my friend. I never mentioned any American artists/novelists. But I am ver ytired of talking about this. I will quote Voltaire who said:

"I say to you that we must regard all men as our brothers. What, a Turk my brother? A Chinaman my brother? A Jew? A Siamese? Yes, without doubt: are we not all children of the same Father, and creatures of the same God?

*I am an atheist but I still believe this quote still has meaning.*

Uh, America had more great people in the course of it's short existence. (too lazy to name them, Americans should know) Besides, Shakespeare is boring, Drake was a pirate, Tolkein and Rowling wrote friggin books, Henry IVVV is nothing too be proud of, etc. etc.

Shakespeare is not boring. Dickens is fucking boring.

Arthur Wellesley, 1st Duke of Wellington, was born in Ireland, actually.
But then, since he was so embrassed about it, I suppose we can't claim him.