NationStates Jolt Archive

And what can I say but Holy.Shit.

Why the fuck are we still retarded enough to still want wars?

(Btw I highly recomend this movie to any MT rper on II)

I want to turn this into a discussion of the movie and war in general. What really struck me was, aside from the shear randomness of who would die or not in the battle, but how utterly suicidal the Japanese were. One scene in particular comes to mind of when Saigo (essentially the main character) delivers suicide orders to his CO. After that each man is expected to kill themselves. [For some reason many of the traditional thinking Japanese considered breaking out and fighting to be a cowardly alternative to suicide] And then the movie goes through each man in the room, without any cuts, as one by one they take out a grenade, pull the pin, prime it and clutch it to their chests blowing themselves up.

Although I appreciate the directer didn't try to 'spare us' the graphic reality of war in this film, it just struck me as odd at how stupidly fanatical some of the men were.

Any thoughts? Excellent movie by the way. Most deffinitely not for the faint of heart. I'd say this is more intense/graphic than Saving Private Ryan by several factors.

I'm waiting for it to come out on DVD, sadly I can't watch it here in Japan.

It's gotten some really good reviews here in Japan though and most people are happy that a major Holywood film is treating Japanese troops as humans and not wacked out mechanical dolls.

And what can I say but Holy.Shit.

Why the fuck are we still retarded enough to still want wars?
Because when nations go to war their last concern is human suffering. Power, money, and self-preservation will override everything else.

I want to turn this into a discussion of the movie and war in general. What really struck me was, aside from the shear randomness of who would die or not in the battle, but how utterly suicidal the Japanese were. One scene in particular comes to mind of when Saigo (essentially the main character) delivers suicide orders to his CO. After that each man is expected to kill themselves. [For some reason many of the traditional thinking Japanese considered breaking out and fighting to be a cowardly alternative to suicide] And then the movie goes through each man in the room, without any cuts, as one by one they take out a grenade, pull the pin, prime it and clutch it to their chests blowing themselves up.

Although I appreciate the directer didn't try to 'spare us' the graphic reality of war in this film, it just struck me as odd at how stupidly fanatical some of the men were.

Any thoughts? Excellent movie by the way. Most deffinitely not for the faint of heart. I'd say this is more intense/graphic than Saving Private Ryan by several factors.
Wow. I'll make sure to rent this, or catch it at the theatres if its still playing. This is the one shot from the Japanese perspective, correct?

Wars are about Money.......Old Men and Money. They are fought by the young and poor on emotion and religion.

i'm going to wait till both his movies are on DVD and watch the one after the other

Wow. I'll make sure to rent this, or catch it at the theatres if its still playing. This is the one shot from the Japanese perspective, correct?
Correct.

Yeah the movie is shown from the Japanese perspective of the battle. It really gives a sense of how isolated everything and everyone were after the battle had begun.

Oh and may I add this movie contains the most awesomenest shot of a carpet bombing and offshore bombardment I have ever seen. 10/10

I'm waiting for it to come out on DVD, sadly I can't watch it here in Japan.

It's gotten some really good reviews here in Japan though and most people are happy that a major Holywood film is treating Japanese troops as humans and not wacked out mechanical dolls.

Ah what about Tora Tora Tora?

Oh yeah. Now I deffinitely need to see 'Flags of Our Fathers'. Anyone seen that movie already?

Ah what about Tora Tora Tora?

they used scenes out that movie on the Midway movie

Oh yeah. Now I deffinitely need to see 'Flags of Our Fathers'. Anyone seen that movie already?

what part i have seen of it it looks good

Ah what about Tora Tora Tora?
What about Tora Tora Tora?

What about Tora Tora Tora?

Were they portrayed as wacked out mechanical dolls?

You can't really take the movies form 40s too seriously since they were guided by propaganda purposes.

But then there are those like one of my in-laws father-in-law who manned a machine gun during a bonzai charge. He will tell you they looked like it.....

Were they portrayed as wacked out mechanical dolls?

Have you even seen Tora Tora Tora? And for the record it wasn't made in the 40's.

Have you even seen Tora Tora Tora? And for the record it wasn't made in the 40's.

it was made in the 70's
and this scene you see again in the movie Midway
http://www.bibl.u-szeged.hu/bibl/mil/ww2/film/tora.jpg

Have you even seen Tora Tora Tora? And for the record it wasn't made in the 40's.

Yes. I actually own a copy.

I was referring to the war era films and the ones just after it like Sands of Iwo Jima which was pandering to the war era people.

Oh. My bad. I thought you were talking about Tora Tora Tora.

I am not exactly the best writer. ;)

Yes. I actually own a copy.

I was referring to the war era films and the ones just after it like Sands of Iwo Jima which was pandering to the war era people.

Oh. My bad. I thought you were talking about Tora Tora Tora.

Yes. I actually own a copy.

I was referring to the war era films and the ones just after it like Sands of Iwo Jima which was pandering to the war era people.

then you be right in saying that

Oh yeah. Now I deffinitely need to see 'Flags of Our Fathers'. Anyone seen that movie already?
The two basically belong together. Eastwood made both of them in short succession, both covering the same battle, just from different perspectives.

By the time I found out about it though they stopped showing it at the movies. So now I'm gonna go and watch Letters from Iwo Jima on Thursday when it comes out, and wait until Flags of our Fathers comes out on DVD.

EDIT:
A little article about making the movie and the feelings of the lead actor: http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,466093,00.html

Were they portrayed as wacked out mechanical dolls?
Don't look at me, I'm just saying what the Japanese media has been commenting on. Now there could be three reasons for ignoring Tora Tora Tora.

1. They fired Akira Kurosawa, which I can understand why the meda would be pissed then.
2. The movie doesn't focus on the Japanese as anything other than the enemy (motives? What motives?)
3. Tora Tora Tora, great movie as it is, can hardly be called a major Hollywood picture.

But I think most likely it's...
4. The reviewers probably for about the pic.

But then there are those like one of my in-laws father-in-law who manned a machine gun during a bonzai charge. He will tell you they looked like it.....
They may have looked like it, doesn't mean that they actually were though, which is the point the Japanese media was making.

Don't look at me, I'm just saying what the Japanese media has been commenting on. Now there could be three reasons for ignoring Tora Tora Tora.

Oh I wasn't taking shots if that was what was coming across.


1. They fired Akira Kurosawa, which I can understand why the meda would be pissed then.

I belive it was creative differences but that phrase could mean many things.


2. The movie doesn't focus on the Japanese as anything other than the enemy (motives? What motives?)
3. Tora Tora Tora, great movie as it is, can hardly be called a major Hollywood picture.

But I think most likely it's...
4. The reviewers probably for about the pic.

Well? Like many films it did better overtime. What was different was the fact they were not portrayed as evil bunny and puppy killers.


They may have looked like it, doesn't mean that they actually were though, which is the point the Japanese media was making.

Understandable. I was just suggesting an example where possibly the viewpoint originated.

It does go both ways. You can have too much effort to portray them as evil and yet you can also portray them as noble.

They were brutal. Beheading Australian soldiers for example. My wifes aunt married a guy whose father was a tanker in the war. He told a story about the battle of Manila where his tank and another were going through the streets. The other took a wrong turn and go caught in a tight ally and was cut off. They were dead to right as the turrent couldn't turn and the tank was trapped. He said the Japanese tormented the men in the tank. He said they kept shooting at them and forced them back into the tank when they tried to leave. He also said there were a couple English speakers who spouted crap at them the whole time(they heard it over the radio). Eventually they got bored and destroyed the tank.

Nothing wrong with showing they were human as well but it's just as wrong to deny they had monsters. My question is how is the knowledge of the war in Japan? I have had a couple Net chats(Hardly an example of proof) with what were claimed to be Japanese teens and they said some things that were rather startling. Things like ships that were sunk that survived the war, etc. It's felt like there was a whitewash/revisionism being taught.

I'm waiting for it to come out on DVD, sadly I can't watch it here in Japan.

Is it like banned or something in Japan :confused:

Well I have seen Flags of our Fathers and struck by it's realistic and unpatriotic approach to deal with warfare, and in the particular the random and chaotic violence of the battle. This was not at all what I was expecting from the movie going in, and was very surprising. So I welcome seeing the Japanese perspective of this battle.

I have also seen Kokoda, as an Australian I saw it on it's premier on Anzac Day, and it was brutal in it's realism of fighting in dense jungle terrain, and the suffering of the Australian volunteers against the Japanese who for the most part remain a psychological enemy. In many ways it reminded me on The Thin Red Line.

But then there are those like one of my in-laws father-in-law who manned a machine gun during a bonzai charge. He will tell you they looked like it.....

Soldiers charging with miniature trees? :eek:


:D :p

Sorry, I just had to.

Fried Tuna;12349330']Soldiers charging with miniature trees? :eek:

:D :p

Sorry, I just had to.

You know? Something told me it was wrong. I chose to ignore it.

That would be a Banzai charge.

Is it like banned or something in Japan :confused:
No, not at all. However, the movie was filmed in Japanese w/ English subtitles for the US release. For obvious reasons, the Japanese release doesn't have those subs and my Japanese isn't good enough to understand the dialog. ;)

Fried Tuna;12349330']Soldiers charging with miniature trees? :eek:


:D :p

Sorry, I just had to.
That would be bonsai not bonzai. Bonzai doesn't mean anything. ;)

Oh I wasn't taking shots if that was what was coming across.
Ah ok then. I thought you were, my mistake.

I belive it was creative differences but that phrase could mean many things.
So I am told as well; however, Kurosawa-sensei is worshiped over here the same way Kubrick is in the states.

He also said there were a couple English speakers who spouted crap at them the whole time(they heard it over the radio).
Sadly, this has not changed. You should hear some of the random statements made by my students at times.

Nothing wrong with showing they were human as well but it's just as wrong to deny they had monsters.
Very true, and it is my understanding the Eastwood has done both, showing that the majority of the Japanese troops were victims just as much as the Allies.

My question is how is the knowledge of the war in Japan? I have had a couple Net chats(Hardly an example of proof) with what were claimed to be Japanese teens and they said some things that were rather startling. Things like ships that were sunk that survived the war, etc. It's felt like there was a whitewash/revisionism being taught.
That's a rather large debate in Japan right now. Having read some of the junior high school texts (they've been translated), I have some qualms about the material, though how much of that is being American and feeling that Pearl should have far more importance I cannot answer. The texts and many teachers do cover what Japan did and do try their best to make sure that their students know what happened and all that. Many of the Japanese I speak with know the history quite well.

But, as with all countries, there will always be those who try their damnedest to bury such things.