NationStates Jolt Archive

I've been wondering this, lately because I saw this program where there are these two friends, one of them goes to college and the other didn't. Both of them had pretty good lives. There seems to be alot of focus on going to college, and get a good job etc. However, does one really need college to find a good job? Is the scare tactics of "If you don't go to college you'll end up in the slums" even accurate? I went to college myself, mainly because I didn't have any real marketable skills that I could use in the real world, so I'm studying to become an archivist. So, what do you guys think, do you really need college in order to lead a good life?

I think you need college if you have goals in life.

I think..

I think you need college if you have goals in life.

I think..

What kind of goals?

I've just finished doing an undergraduate degree, full time, after a career change. I can say it certainly hasn't helped my income yet (not that I did it for that reason). :headbang:

Getting the best jobs seems to come down to aptitude, attitude, and who you know.

a good life in what respect?

What kind of goals?

Long-term goals, career goals. That sort of thing.

I can see someone who doesn't have any sort of goal for his/her future get a job right out of highschool, keep the job and get experience then move up in the company. But what kind of job is that going to give you? Manager at Wal-Mart? A truck driver?

You can't become a nurse or a doctor or a lawyer that way, though.

I can see someone who doesn't have any sort of goal for his/her future get a job right out of highschool, keep the job and get experience then move up in the company.

that sounds suspiciously like a goal

Manager at Wal-Mart?

no, a greeter. :D

anyway, yes, people need college for a better career. on the average, people who go to college make (and i know this has changed or this is off a bit, please dont flame me for this) around a million or so more over the course of their lifetime than those that don't go.

of course, there is also the dorm experience. :p

Come to Australia, tradesmen earn more than doctors here. :headbang:

It really depends on what you want to/can do, I suppose.

that sounds suspiciously like a goal

Not a career goal, though.

of course, there is also the dorm experience. :p

Something I'm not so excited about.. :p

Not a career goal, though.

really?

really?

Yup.

I'd say it's a financial goal, but that's just my crazy sleep deprived brain talking.

psh, college. I'm generation X bitch.

If everyone goes to college and succeeds everyone will be equal and therefor defeat the purpose of a college education.

If everyone goes to college and succeeds everyone will be equal and therefor defeat the purpose of a college education.

That's why people go back for masters. :p

If everyone goes to college and succeeds everyone will be equal and therefor defeat the purpose of a college education.

Yea, but not everyone can go to college, or choose to, and not everyone goes to college for the education, but more for the party atmosphere.

Theres plenty of career goals you can aim for without collage (or university). One example is programming, if one person in the UK works for a software company for 3 years and another spends 3 years getting a degree then one whos been employed is in a far better position than the graduate.

In many cases degrees show you have a capacity for learning, where as professional experience shows you have that skill. That said collage/universtiy can be a very valuble experience in its own right and can be a good excuse to have somne serious fun before diving into a career :p

(..)
In many cases degrees show you have a capacity for learning, where as professional experience shows you have that skill. That said collage/universtiy can be a very valuble experience in its own right and can be a good excuse to have somne serious fun before diving into a career :p

True. Another thing is that many advertised urban jobs ask for tertiary qualifications as a matter of course - so a degree has a kind of "tick box" usefulness in that sense also.

That's why people go back for masters. :p
Wait til everyone goes back for them.
Yea, but not everyone can go to college, or choose to, and not everyone goes to college for the education, but more for the party atmosphere.
Oh but everyone can, they just can't.
I'm going to go to STFU one day.:p

Long-term goals, career goals. That sort of thing.

I can see someone who doesn't have any sort of goal for his/her future get a job right out of highschool, keep the job and get experience then move up in the company. But what kind of job is that going to give you? Manager at Wal-Mart? A truck driver?

You can't become a nurse or a doctor or a lawyer that way, though.

You can however become a plumber, builder, carpenter, electrician or car mechanic - Don't be fooled by the fact that they don't wear suits to work - all of those careers earn a very similar amount (or more) than your average college graduate without the expense of going to college.

The income offered by any skilled trade leads to a very comfortable living - or perhaps you have never had to pay for a plumber to come out on an emergency call out, or pay for a builder to put an extension on your house, or had your car repaired or needed an electrician to re-wire a room.

I also like how you mention nursing - one of the lowest paid professions on the planet - a truck driver or wal-mart manager will earn way more than a nurse, and they in turn earn much less than skilled trades.

Yup.

I'd say it's a financial goal, but that's just my crazy sleep deprived brain talking.

Do you know that many many skilled tradesmen own and manage their own business?

You can however become a plumber, builder, carpenter, electrician or car mechanic - Don't be fooled by the fact that they don't wear suits to work - all of those careers earn a very similar amount (or more) than your average college graduate without the expense of going to college.

The income offered by any skilled trade leads to a very comfortable living - or perhaps you have never had to pay for a plumber to come out on an emergency call out, or pay for a builder to put an extension on your house, or had your car repaired or needed an electrician to re-wire a room.

I also like how you mention nursing - one of the lowest paid professions on the planet - a truck driver or wal-mart manager will earn way more than a nurse, and they in turn earn much less than skilled trades.

you do know that the few career choices you listed at the top require a trade school, right? i know you did, so... moving on...

actually, no... your second paragraph is bad, too. plumbers need plumbing licenses, "builders" need construction licenses, auto technicians need ASE certification, and electricians need licenses as well. nice going.

Do you know that many many skilled tradesmen own and manage their own business?

Trade school is important for them.

you do know that the few career choices you listed at the top require a trade school, right? i know you did, so... moving on...

actually, no... your second paragraph is bad, too. plumbers need plumbing licenses, "builders" need construction licenses, auto technicians need ASE certification, and electricians need licenses as well. nice going.

Ummm - the OP is about college, not apprenticeships. Nice going.

The qualification route to being a plumber, builder, carpenter, mechanic etc etc does not involve doing a full time academic course until you are 22, and then often going on to Grad school for another few years - which is what both the OP and the responder I replied to were talking about.

And what the hell does having a license for your job have to do with college? You need a cabbie license to drive a taxi in most cities - does that count as college?

Yup.

I'd say it's a financial goal

i'm not seeing the distinction. is it a perceived social status thing?

i'm not seeing the distinction. is it a perceived social status thing?

No.

It's financial because they need money. Making money to pay for their living, their car insurence, their whatever. Money is the goal.

But of course, they do need to get the job, so I guess that makes getting a job a goal, but that's totally a different story.. *is too tired to explain or even try to make sense*

God, why can't everyone just think like me? :(

No.

It's financial because they need money. Making money to pay for their living, their car insurence, their whatever. Money is the goal.

But of course, they do need to get the job, so I guess that makes getting a job a goal, but that's totally a different story.. *is too tired to explain or even try to make sense*

God, why can't everyone just think like me? :(
So managing a store with a many million doller turnover with a couple of hundred staff with prospects of regional management etc etc is not a career goal but working in a cube farm is?

Edit: Add to well paying careers that do not require college - Owning a Pub - the one I worked part time at through University took in about $50k every friday.

So managing a store with a many million doller turnover with a couple of hundred staff with prospects of regional management etc etc is not a career goal but working in a cube farm is?

Edit: Add to well paying careers that do not require college - Owning a Pub - the one I worked part time at through University took in about $50k every friday.

So an 18 year old is going to be managing a huge company or owning their own pub, a week after they graduate from highschool?

So managing a store with a many million doller turnover with a couple of hundred staff with prospects of regional management etc etc is not a career goal but working in a cube farm is?

Edit: Add to well paying careers that do not require college - Owning a Pub - the one I worked part time at through University took in about $50k every friday.

I could've owned a pub!

Depends, on average a college degree means about $1 million more over your earning lifetime than someone with a high school or equivalent. There's also the fact that many higher management positions are closed to you without that degree, something that many folks in the trades don't always think about (Trades are wonderful and you can earn a lot... till your back starts to give out and something breaks that medically knocks you out, then what?).

And, sadly, a lot of the jobs that used to pay well without a degree are going by way of the dodo.

So, no, you don't REALLY need college to make a good living, but generally speaking it's much easier to do so with that degree than without.

So, what do you guys think, do you really need college in order to lead a good life?
As an unashamed academic, I reckon it's a good idea. College is also a good place to put your name about if you're keen on the humanities or the like. Of course, not everyone's idea of a fulfilling life is the same as mine, so there will be those who can lead perfectly happy lives without going to college.

well there are a lot of things, only taught at the college level, that if the first nine years of eduction were allowed to do their job instead of being as much taken up with propigandising as they are, that would have been taught and learned there.

and neither is college any guarantee of not ending up in the gutter any more then lack of it one of doing so. there IS still a lot of work in this world that everyone's lives really depends upon, that bennifits everyone, that is even some of it more or less gratifying, that isn't and doesn't require rocket science.

a lot of infrastructure maintainence and even some opperation falls into this catigory. as do many of the heavier construction trades, and of course agriculture and most other things to do with food.

it is true though that as tecnology advances such jobs become fewer relitive to the overall employment market place.

the real problem lies with the personel department syndrome though. where all but the smallest mom and pop bussinessess have people to do the vetting and hiring who have nothing to do with any other part of the opperation, least of all the actual on the ground opperations.

that's what the piece of paper from an institution of higher learning is for, to get your foot in past THAT door. at least the first time or even the first few times.

and because the noncollege oppertunities are forever shrinking it almost takes knowing someone or knowing someone who knows someone, to get hired in most of those capacities in the first place. aggriculture and food service being the notable exceptions, unfortunately also notable for not paying a living wage and generaly lacking any real upward path.

so not getting college isn't the end of the world entirely, but getting what college you can is worth the time, if only as a chance to learn something more or less interesting and being able to eat more or less regular for a little longer without the stressess of more then yourself being dependent on you.

i DO think the whole carreer concept, along with the whole idea of making everything have to begin and end with little green pieces of paper are both way the hell and gone over rated.

to me there is no one more useless then someone whose only interest in anything depends on it being about little green pieces of paper.

college should be about learning things that are fun to learn that you personaly are interested in, and the whole thing about the way the whole concept has become in money dominated countries is just totaly messed up and backward headed.

all of learning should be in a way, since that is the way nature makes every living creature to be from the time we are born. it's when the begging of formal education in the lower grades robbs everyone of that, teases them that this is what it's going to be and then bate and switch spends more time filling their heads with the bullshit their parents and politicians want it to, that this gets ground and defeated out of them.

and then of course, all the time and effort that was wasted by THAT crap, it takes college to make up for.

needless to say, in cameroi, we take a somewhat different approach. if you ever get a chance to read any of r.a.lafferty's stories that involve HIS cameroi, well you'll see where we came up with the name.

=^^=
.../\...

I've been wondering this, lately because I saw this program where there are these two friends, one of them goes to college and the other didn't. Both of them had pretty good lives. There seems to be alot of focus on going to college, and get a good job etc. However, does one really need college to find a good job? Is the scare tactics of "If you don't go to college you'll end up in the slums" even accurate? I went to college myself, mainly because I didn't have any real marketable skills that I could use in the real world, so I'm studying to become an archivist. So, what do you guys think, do you really need college in order to lead a good life?You don't need it to lead a good life, but it gets exceedingly harder to do so. Education has always been a criteria for guaging how capable someone is, mainly because there just isn't time to vet through all applicants in a personal manner. With more people getting a college education, it gets harder for that to be of any merit. Not having a college degree limits what you can do. For some people, it doesn't prevent them from doing what they want to do, or they get a job that allows them to go to college later.

I think you need college if you have goals in life.

I think..Not really. :D

So an 18 year old is going to be managing a huge company or owning their own pub, a week after they graduate from highschool?

Managing a huge company? Try a single Wal-Mart store - you seemed to be sounding like you did not regard that as a career option rather a financial motivation - I was just pointing out there is plenty of scope for career fufillment as well as financial.

Or do you expect college graduates make partner any time soon after they graduate?

Oh - to add - Police force, Fire Brigade and Armed Services - all good careers that do not require college - with noted career advancement options.

Oh - to add - Police force, Fire Brigade and Armed Services - all good careers that do not require college - with noted career advancement options.
If memory serves though, if you want to make Chief of Police or Fire Chief, or General... you're gonna need a degree.

If memory serves though, if you want to make Chief of Police or Fire Chief, or General... you're gonna need a degree.

Run for Sherrif :p

Sadly - yes you do often need a degree for careers where you really should not. Is it a MUST HAVE or is it something that just helps a lot?

And again - does not being in the number one position mean you failed at life? Does the fact you;'re not managing the department mean that your promotion to positons not as high was not career advancement? Does it take away from job satisfaction? If the answer is yes then it is like saying that not being CEO makes a college graduate a failure.

Managing a huge company? Try a single Wal-Mart store

"Hi, I'm Johnny, I'm here to apply for the managing position. Oh, an I have no experience."

"You're hired!"

God I wish. :p

Run for Sherrif :p

Sadly - yes you do often need a degree for careers where you really should not. Is it a MUST HAVE or is it something that just helps a lot?

And again - does not being in the number one position mean you failed at life? Does the fact you;'re not managing the department mean that your promotion to positons not as high was not career advancement? Does it take away from job satisfaction? If the answer is yes then it is like saying that not being CEO makes a college graduate a failure.
No, it doesn't mean that you fail, but if you WANT to make it to the top, or you get frustrated because you CAN'T make it to the top... I'm not knocking people who are in trade because my step-father was in one for the longest time till he got too old to do it any more (but not old enough to retire), but that's my point. The degree allows you a bit more flexibility than you have without it. You don't need it, but it's nice to have it so you can go for CEO.

"Hi, I'm Johnny, I'm here to apply for the managing position. Oh, an I have no experience."

"You're hired!"

God I wish. :p
I KNOW you are being dense here on purpose - as you yourself mentioned working your way up only a few posts ago:

I can see someone who doesn't have any sort of goal for his/her future get a job right out of highschool, keep the job and get experience then move up in the company.

When it was pointed out to you that this looks a lot like a goal - working your way up to manage a store for example - you then said it was based on financial rather than career goals:

I'd say it's a financial goal
And then I pointed out that there is a lot of career based goals in working your way up a Wal-Mart career path -managing a sotre with millions of dollers turnover, huge customer base, in charge of a hundred or so staff etc etc and then you started being silly going on about not getting all this a week out of high school.

Yea, but not everyone can go to college, or choose to, and not everyone goes to college for the education, but more for the party atmosphere.

I went to my first day of uni orientation week today, a significant portion of the Engineering, Computer and Mathematical Sciences faculty welcome was about the 556 pub crawls that are happening within the next few weeks. Damn those eng students love their beer!

Pfft all this fancy talk of college with near perfect grammar and punctuation, if you really want some dream job do a few years in the military and learn the skills there once you leave you will be a job magnet with a large pension

All in all I say so long as you know what your doing and be a fun outgoing guy you don’t need college at all you also don’t run the risk of looking good on paper and getting the sack on the first day

No, it doesn't mean that you fail, but if you WANT to make it to the top, or you get frustrated because you CAN'T make it to the top... I'm not knocking people who are in trade because my step-father was in one for the longest time till he got too old to do it any more (but not old enough to retire), but that's my point. The degree allows you a bit more flexibility than you have without it. You don't need it, but it's nice to have it so you can go for CEO.
If you want to be CEO and you do a skilled trade you can always start your own company :)

I'm not saying that the trade route is better than college, but I think that there is a very heavy attitude that you HAVE to go to college to succeed - then what is success - earning 100k/year by the age of 25? Sounds reasonable... and it is well within the reach of a self employed plumber.

There are a huge number of careers that lead to very successful lives that do not require a college degree - true if you are an employee than having a degree helps in many jobs but mainly for the top top positions - you can still have a very successful very fufilling career without a degree.

Is a University Degree really necessary to be a successful person, make lots of money or live comfortably?

No.

Is that the only use for a degree?

Not nearly.

The fact of the matter is, getting a degree from an accredited university isn't just about getting a good job, and your not just learning job skills there. A Trade certification, while admirable and certainly worthey of praise is, likewise, not equivalent to a university degree, simple because a university degree provides what a trade certification doesn't.

It provides a well-rounded education in arts and the sciences.

In other words, you're working on becoming 'learned'. Now, I know a lot of people don't go to college for this. They go to these little private colleges, like Phoenix University, ITT Tech, Maric, etcetera, and get degrees in vocations that are all the rage of the day. Thats true even in the public universities as well. You have a lot of business students.

But even so, these people are getting a good base of education that allows them to think critically, demonstrate tolerance, and respect the scientific method as well as fine arts.

You can have that if you don't have a college degree, but a trade school certainly isn't going to require you to learn German culture, or make sure you take a course in cultural diversity and humanities, or ensure that you know damn well what liberal IR theory is.

I mean, when you really think about it, your earning a title "Bachelor of Arts" from the State, and exemplifying the spirit of education and class. That should be worth something.

As for those public service jobs someone pointed out, cop, firefighter, military enlisted, sure, you don't /need/ a degree. But I certainly would like that firefighter to know lots of fire theory and be able to speak clearly and persuasively. I'd like that soldier to think about the orders he's being given and recognize when he's violating someones rights under the Geneva convention. And I'd /certainly/ like the guy who holds the most power in our criminal justice system to have more education and education into sociology and the theories and ideals involved in public administration then the three months at a paramilitary academy might afford them.

Is that saying if you don't go to college, your not as good a person as someone who has? Not at all. I'm just saying, its got merit beyond, "I need a good job."

I've been wondering this, lately because I saw this program where there are these two friends, one of them goes to college and the other didn't. Both of them had pretty good lives. There seems to be alot of focus on going to college, and get a good job etc. However, does one really need college to find a good job? Is the scare tactics of "If you don't go to college you'll end up in the slums" even accurate? I went to college myself, mainly because I didn't have any real marketable skills that I could use in the real world, so I'm studying to become an archivist. So, what do you guys think, do you really need college in order to lead a good life?

I don't know, as Germany doesn't have colleges.
The job you can get depend on what school you go to, and if you got a university degree afterwards.

Pfft all this fancy talk of college with near perfect grammar and punctuation, if you really want some dream job do a few years in the military and learn the skills there once you leave you will be a job magnet with a large pension


Erm... I've studied librarianship and am working in an IT helpdesk in administration now. I can't imagine that the military would teach either very well. :rolleyes:

Depends what you mean by a 'good life'.

If you don't care about education, you can live adequately by laying concrete in the hot sun from 9am-6pm five days a week. You'll make enough to eat, rent a place somewhere, and run a car.

If you want anything more than that, you'll probably have to take some form of tertiary education. A humanities degree might not make any difference materially, but it will help you understand the world around you.

As for those public service jobs someone pointed out, cop, firefighter, military enlisted, sure, you don't /need/ a degree. But I certainly would like that firefighter to know lots of fire theory and be able to speak clearly and persuasively. I'd like that soldier to think about the orders he's being given and recognize when he's violating someones rights under the Geneva convention. And I'd /certainly/ like the guy who holds the most power in our criminal justice system to have more education and education into sociology and the theories and ideals involved in public administration then the three months at a paramilitary academy might afford them.

Trust me - you do not need a college education to know how to speak clearly, and I know a LOT of people who have degrees who have little or no ability in this. As to fire throry - I have doubts that that is a college course - I also think you undersestimate how much training they get in fire both on training courses and from on the job experience.

Soldiers thinking about orders and knowing if they are violating the geneva convention - you make it sound like you think someone who did not go to college can barely read!

Police Cheif? they will have in addition to three months at police academy a good 20 or more years of on the job experience day in and day out dealing with people and administration up close and personal - which I suspect will teach someone much more than a couple of years reading theory in a detached environment.

Depends what you mean by a 'good life'.

If you don't care about education, you can live adequately by laying concrete in the hot sun from 9am-6pm five days a week. You'll make enough to eat, rent a place somewhere, and run a car.

If you want anything more than that, you'll probably have to take some form of tertiary education. A humanities degree might not make any difference materially, but it will help you understand the world around you.

You've never had to hire a plumber have you?

You've never had to hire a plumber have you?
Never have seen an old plumber, have you?

Trust me - you do not need a college education to know how to speak clearly, and I know a LOT of people who have degrees who have little or no ability in this. As to fire throry - I have doubts that that is a college course - I also think you undersestimate how much training they get in fire both on training courses and from on the job experience.

Soldiers thinking about orders and knowing if they are violating the geneva convention - you make it sound like you think someone who did not go to college can barely read!

Police Cheif? they will have in addition to three months at police academy a good 20 or more years of on the job experience day in and day out dealing with people and administration up close and personal - which I suspect will teach someone much more than a couple of years reading theory in a detached environment.

Good points, but I still stand by my assessment. You don't /need/ a college degree to think, write, or speak clearly, or know your violating some law, but it damn well helps. We're not talking about a Sergeant with 15 years experience, we're not talking about a Police Captain. A Bachelor's degree, employment wise, is an entry level degree. I would just like the cop that pulls me over to have something more then a high school education and a statistical tendency to be a) Authoritarian, b) have little education, an c) Have low self-esteem. Thats not a happy mix. And, like Kanabia said, (Which was really my point. Gotta hand it to someone else for saying it a more concise and pointed manner. I think I've been in college too long.), its about understanding the world around you. I don't want authorities to fall pray to, well, the power of authority.

And, I'm going to bed. :)

Cause plumbing is such a relaxed and well-paid profession, right?

You haven't hired a plumber either?

And which college educated degrees lead to relaxed professions? Medicine? Law? Finance? - yup - very stress free careers...

You've never had to hire a plumber have you?

Cause plumbing is such a relaxed and well-paid profession, right?

I would just like the cop that pulls me over to have something more then a high school education and a statistical tendency to be a) Authoritarian, b) have little education, an c) Have low self-esteem. Thats not a happy mix.

I don't think b. has much to do with a and c. Plenty of people with education are pretty sucky power hungry gits.

Erm... I've studied librarianship and am working in an IT helpdesk in administration now. I can't imagine that the military would teach either very well. :rolleyes:

well you can learn pretty much everything there is to know about computers and also the basic skills of discipline, confidence and leadership (you will also get money off whatever courses you want to take)

So the military will teach you very well why you would want to work in a helpdesk though is beyond me

Long-term goals, career goals. That sort of thing.

I can see someone who doesn't have any sort of goal for his/her future get a job right out of highschool, keep the job and get experience then move up in the company. But what kind of job is that going to give you? Manager at Wal-Mart? A truck driver?

You can't become a nurse or a doctor or a lawyer that way, though.

You do realize that Wal-mart managers earns no less than $100,000 a year average? All they need is two years of schooling in College. Yet, they make more than Engineers who has just obtained their Masters.

I am in College right now studying Mechanical Engineering Technology which it's a three year program and the average salary is $50,000.

It's just Wal-mart doesn't give a crap about the workers (cashiers, stockers, handymans, etc) but they do take care of people under management-related positions.

well you can learn pretty much everything there is to know about computers and also the basic skills of discipline, confidence and leadership (you will also get money off whatever courses you want to take)

So the military will teach you very well why you would want to work in a helpdesk though is beyond me

I can't imagine the military teaching polite poeple skills.
Discipline and leadership aren't required, and how being shouted at would build confidence is beyond me.

And I work in helpdesk admin because I like the job, it's a lot like library administration, and I pays well.

You do realize that Wal-mart managers earns no less than $100,000 a year average? All they need is two years of schooling in College. Yet, they make more than Engineers who has just obtained their Masters.

So you do need college, eh?

We don't really need any kind of education. We(well, some of us) could survive on hunting/gathering. That doesn't mean we should.

We don't really need any kind of education. We(well, some of us) could survive on hunting/gathering. That doesn't mean we should.

The point is that there are a lot of careers out there that lead to lifestyles a hell of a lot better than 'hunting and gathering' that do not require a college education. There are plenty which are on parity with many college career options.

It just seems lots of people assume that a career that does not need a suit must be low paying.

It just seems lots of people assume that a career that does not need a suit must be low paying.

Who's saying that?

Who's saying that?

Several posters in this thread have made comments that careers that do not require college are basically just about surviving, scraping by or are just low paying. such as the one I was responding to.

and while yes - if you get a crap job and don't work at career advancement this is true, but it does not have to be if you put a little effort in.

Several posters in this thread have made comments that careers that do not require college are basically just about surviving, scraping by or are just low paying. such as the one I was responding to.

and while yes - if you get a crap job and don't work at career advancement this is true, but it does not have to be if you put a little effort in.

It all depends on what you want to do.
On average you will make more money in professions that require a good education than in those that don't.
But if you want to be a plumber, be a plumber and don't waste time in things you don't want to know anyway.

So you do need college, eh?

Yes, it would be a smart move :)

It all depends on what you want to do.
On average you will make more money in professions that require a good education than in those that don't.
But if you want to be a plumber, be a plumber and don't waste time in things you don't want to know anyway.

I think the wording should be "People who are motivated and seek out experience/qualifications that will advance their prospects earn more than those who don't"

It's just that the majority of people who go to college are doing that, while many people who don't go are not. However the people who do not go to college but are motivated and work hard and make sure they get training and experience go on to careers that pay very well.

So while it is true that college graduates earn more on average than people who enter the workforce on leaving school that is in no small part because one group has a high level of self selection to be motivated in career advancement while the other does not - however once you compare those who do you get very different figures.

I think the wording should be "People who are motivated and seek out experience/qualifications that will advance their prospects earn more than those who don't"

It's just that the majority of people who go to college are doing that, while many people who don't go are not. However the people who do not go to college but are motivated and work hard and make sure they get training and experience go on to careers that pay very well.

So while it is true that college graduates earn more on average than people who enter the workforce on leaving school that is in no small part because one group has a high level of self selection to be motivated in career advancement while the other does not - however once you compare those who do you get very different figures.

So, basically you're arguing that people who get education are more likely to get better careers?
I think that is what everybody else here is saying, too.

So, basically you're arguing that people who get education are more likely to get better careers?
I think that is what everybody else here is saying, too.

I think a lot of people are saying something more along the lines that you need a college education to get a good career. That people earn more *because* they go to college rather than that the people who go to college are often motivated individuals.

The OP was about wether you need a college education to make a good living.

Many people have posted that you just about get by if you do not get a college education - which is true if you make no effort to advance yourself, but not true if you have a bit of motivation.

Several have said that if you compare college to non-college you have a much higher income which while true - I would be interested to see how college vs skilled trades compare for lifetime earnings as opposed to college vs "skilled trades bunged in with many minimum wage careers and people with no motivation".

I think a lot of people are saying something more along the lines that you need a college education to get a good career. That people earn more *because* they go to college rather than that the people who go to college are often motivated individuals.

The OP was about wether you need a college education to make a good living.

Many people have posted that you just about get by if you do not get a college education - which is true if you make no effort to advance yourself, but not true if you have a bit of motivation.

Several have said that if you compare college to non-college you have a much higher income which while true - I would be interested to see how college vs skilled trades compare for lifetime earnings as opposed to college vs "skilled trades bunged in with many minimum wage careers and people with no motivation".

Nobody is saying that. The general consensus look to me to be more like "A college education can lead to a good career, but it's not the only way".

Nobody is saying that. The general consensus look to me to be more like "A college education can lead to a good career, but it's not the only way".
Really?

I think you need college if you have goals in life.

If you don't care about education, you can live adequately by laying concrete in the hot sun from 9am-6pm five days a week. You'll make enough to eat, rent a place somewhere, and run a car.

sounds like they think you'll just be getting by without a college degree.

Cause plumbing is such a relaxed and well-paid profession, right?Which carries the impression that the poster assumes that because plumbers don't go to 4 years of college and then grad school they must be earning not much...

We don't really need any kind of education. We(well, some of us) could survive on hunting/gathering. That doesn't mean we should.
While not explicit this does carry the implication that a non-college based career path is about survival.

Really?

sounds like they think you'll just be getting by without a college degree.

Well, having a car is more than I've got at the moment, so no. It doesn't sound like that.


Which carries the impression that the poster assumes that because plumbers don't go to 4 years of college and then grad school they must be earning not much...

The two plumbers I know have long since given up the profession. One is working the line in a factory now because this totally unskilled work that doesn't require any training to speak of pays almost twice what he made as plumber.
The other went to university and is now a teacher....

Both my parents have post-graduate education in the medical field, and the garbageman makes more money than either of them.

The idea that going to college is the only way to be successful is bullshit. What it all boils down to is motivation - do you think people from West Point, or the Air Force or other academies do well in other fields because they're inherently smarter? Trust me on this one, you'll find people just as smart in other colleges - what separates them is their motivation. If you have motivation and the drive to succeed, you can do well in any profession or career field. The vast majority of jobs require post-secondary education, but not exclusively college. There are plenty of trade jobs out there that will have you making more money than the majority of college graduates.

Going back to the college point - look at the people you knew who partied their time away - as we said at Camp Coast Guard, 2.0 and go. Yeah, they have a college degree, but are they going anywhere? Hello cubicle for 50 years!

The second factor is choosing the right career field. Having an MA in Art History does no absolutely no good in getting a job in the commercial market.
The same thing applies with trade jobs - you have to choose a field that people need services in.

Motivation + Smart Career Choice = Success.

And about the plumbers - I live in the south, where unions are almost non-existent, and plumbers make good money.

Yea, but not everyone can go to college, or choose to, and not everyone goes to college for the education, but more for the party atmosphere.

Nightclubbing would be cheaper than four years tuition and living expenses.

Nightclubbing would be cheaper than four years tuition and living expenses.

This makes me rethink my whole future.

I've been wondering this, lately because I saw this program where there are these two friends, one of them goes to college and the other didn't. Both of them had pretty good lives. There seems to be alot of focus on going to college, and get a good job etc. However, does one really need college to find a good job? Is the scare tactics of "If you don't go to college you'll end up in the slums" even accurate? I went to college myself, mainly because I didn't have any real marketable skills that I could use in the real world, so I'm studying to become an archivist. So, what do you guys think, do you really need college in order to lead a good life?

Depends on what you want to do...

But in the end the simple stats show a higher average income by a goodly amount for college graduates... there are exceptions of course because we are dealing with averages (and hard to find the variance on the data) but in the end you have a better shot at a higher income

The same thing applies with trade jobs - you have to choose a field that people need services in.

Motivation + Smart Career Choice = Success.

And about the plumbers - I live in the south, where unions are almost non-existent, and plumbers make good money.

Exactly.

And agreed on the plumbers - I am not sure where Cabra West lives but in the UK plumbers earn well above the average wage, particulary once they set up their own company.

But in the end the simple stats show a higher average income by a goodly amount for college graduates... there are exceptions of course because we are dealing with averages (and hard to find the variance on the data) but in the end you have a better shot at a higher income
And anyone with an ounce of the critical thinking college is supposed to nurture will realise that that statistic does not compare your average college graduate with a similary motivated person who did not go to college.

What you are doing is comparing someone motivated to spend 4 or more years in unpaid training to get a qualification for a specific career with another group that bungs skilled tradesmen who spend a long time learning their profession and often have the motivation to set up their own company in with people who spend their whole lives in minimum wage jobs. Does that sound like an intelligent comparison? Does it seem sensible to compare a range of careers that all pay well with another set of well paying careers handicapped by grouping them with poorly paid jobs?

Well, having a car is more than I've got at the moment, so no. It doesn't sound like that.


He/She then wnt on to say that if you want more than that you need tertiry education. Also that a degree helps you understand the world around you.

Either the "Want more" ment that if you want more than just the basics then you need a college education OR that the 'more' refered to being able to experience a more fufilling life through being more officially educated. I think I gave them the benefit of the doubt as I am sure someone who has much between their ears does not honestly believe you need to spend four extra years in a classroom to understand the world better than you would from 4 years out and about...

Managing a huge company? Try a single Wal-Mart store - you seemed to be sounding like you did not regard that as a career option rather a financial motivation - I was just pointing out there is plenty of scope for career fufillment as well as financial.

Or do you expect college graduates make partner any time soon after they graduate?

Oh - to add - Police force, Fire Brigade and Armed Services - all good careers that do not require college - with noted career advancement options.

In New York state, actually, you do need college to become a police officer or firefighter.

College has only become important and "necessary" in career advancement because we have made it so. In the past, one went to college specifically because they had something they wanted to do, that required more advanced education than a normal K-12 school could provide. This could be anything from business to pure academic pursuits, like anthropology.

At least in this country, nowadays you go to college because it's what you do. Because there's the belief (correctly) that if you want to make more money, you have to get a college degree. That also means that, because college has become more of a commercial and monetary pursuit, higher learning that could still serve a good purpose, but which tend to be less marketable (Sociology and Anthropolgy for instance) have fallen by the way-side. Sure there are still people who go into it, but significantly less than that go into Business, pre-Med, Engineering, even Physics. Clearly those are all vital areas of study, but they are made more so by their marketability and the amount of money one stands to make by going into business or engineering.

So, yes, college is necessary.

In New York state, actually, you do need college to become a police officer or firefighter.

Wow.

How long has that been a requirement? Seems pretty strange that someone needs four years studying literature before they can be trusted with a fire hose these days...

College makes me laugh. While I can respect the fact that people go and that it's a healthy thing for the human mind, there's just WAY too much emphasis placed on it in high school. I can remember all four years of high school having college shoved down my throat. People used to ask me what I wanted to do for a living when I graduated, and when I told them I didn't want to go to college, I got this spiel about how I wasn't going to make any money.

My sister's a good example of "college". She's a freakin' genius...straight A's all through high school, gets a full ride to FSU, right? She's gonna be a cancer specialist. She gets her major in biologogy, blah, blah blah...bottom line is, she's 23-years-old right now, and she's got about...another seven years or so to go. You'd think she'd be able to get a decent-paying job what with her extensive schooling in biology and whatnot. She gets paid around something like eight or nine dollars an hour to work in a lab with fruit flies.

She is not financially stable...not neccessarily careless spending on her part, but there's a lot of expenses to be paid. You've got to juggle an education and a job...and that job's got to pay enough if you plan on moving out of your parent's house.

I'm 18. I'm more financially stable than she is. While everyone was busy doing homework and planning for their great college careers, I worked through high school. I worked a lot.

It's funny, because all your teachers will tell you, "If you don't go to college, you'll end up being a fry cook." It just goes to show you how little knowledge most of them have about the working world. I bussed tables first...than I washed dishes. When it became apparent that I was a workhorse, I was moved up to line cook. At the height of my stay, I was making ten an hour and worked 50 hours a week. I did that for about seven months.

I never called off. In fact, the only time I called off was for my graduation. One night I was sick and I was puking all night. I worked through it.

College isn't an issue. The issue is motivation. If you're motivated to work, you'll make money where ever you go. It's that simple. Because the hardest workers get moved up the fastest. I was definitely on my way to becoming an assistant KM, and if I'd stayed another year, I could be full-time KM. In the company I worked at, we have 22 and 23-year-old general managers. They literally make around 800 dollars a week. How many college kids do you think will be making that kind of money at that age?

I was motivated. I had a goal. I saved a lot of my money. A lot of it. By the time I'd quit, I had amassed 11,000 dollars. I took that money and used it to help open a business. It's all about what you decide to do in high school. If money's really that important, it's easy to do what I did. All that money was saved while living with my parents {because I didn't have a lot of bills to pay}.

College is good, don't get me wrong. But it's not the be all end all by far.

College makes me laugh. While I can respect the fact that people go and that it's a healthy thing for the human mind, there's just WAY too much emphasis placed on it in high school. I can remember all four years of high school having college shoved down my throat. People used to ask me what I wanted to do for a living when I graduated, and when I told them I didn't want to go to college, I got this spiel about how I wasn't going to make any money.
--Snip--

Very true. I just found out that after I spend however many years to get my Physics Ph. D. it's going to take (the 2 years I still have left of undergrad + 3-5 years of Grad School) I'm going to end up making about 40k annually + whatever grant money I make that doesn't go towards the department I end up working for, or into my research.

There's too much of an emphasis placed on going to college for the money.

Wow.

How long has that been a requirement? Seems pretty strange that someone needs four years studying literature before they can be trusted with a fire hose these days...

Illinois is like that too (at least for police) but you dont need four years; its only about two semesters in a community college if I remeber correctly.

Very true. I just found out that after I spend however many years to get my Physics Ph. D. it's going to take (the 2 years I still have left of undergrad + 3-5 years of Grad School) I'm going to end up making about 40k annually + whatever grant money I make that doesn't go towards the department I end up working for, or into my research.

There's too much of an emphasis placed on going to college for the money.

At my university careers fair Phillips had a stand trying to recruit people, the brochure gave their starting salary at about £14,000, and you had to graduate with a First (about a ~3.7 - 3.8 GPA for you yanks) in Maths or Physics.

I've been wondering this, lately because I saw this program where there are these two friends, one of them goes to college and the other didn't. Both of them had pretty good lives. There seems to be alot of focus on going to college, and get a good job etc. However, does one really need college to find a good job? Is the scare tactics of "If you don't go to college you'll end up in the slums" even accurate? I went to college myself, mainly because I didn't have any real marketable skills that I could use in the real world, so I'm studying to become an archivist. So, what do you guys think, do you really need college in order to lead a good life?

You're going to get a very narrow range of opinions on NSG. I think the opinions will range from "Hell, yes -- the only good jobs need professional degrees", to "The world needs ditch diggers too", to "Only if you don't want to be a loser".

Of course the real answer is "It depends". If you like carpentry and become a cabinet maker, you'll never want for work. At least, not around here. Same thing as an electrician. The drawback is that you might not make $100K per year right away. The real money in any field isn't in doing the work you were educated for, it's managing others, or in owning the company.

Very true. I just found out that after I spend however many years to get my Physics Ph. D. it's going to take (the 2 years I still have left of undergrad + 3-5 years of Grad School) I'm going to end up making about 40k annually + whatever grant money I make that doesn't go towards the department I end up working for, or into my research.

There's too much of an emphasis placed on going to college for the money.

That's exactly why I spent a grand total of three years teaching physics before I went out into the commercial world. The payoffs are better and the work can be just as challenging. Plus, you don't have to deal with students.

That's exactly why I spent a grand total of three years teaching physics before I went out into the commercial world. The payoffs are better and the work can be just as challenging. Plus, you don't have to deal with students.

I would look at that avenue, but I'm scared witless of going into "industry." I also don't know if (and you can probably clarify this) it is better if I want to go into the commercial world to get a full on Ph. D. or just a Masters.

I would look at that avenue, but I'm scared witless of going into "industry." I also don't know if (and you can probably clarify this) it is better if I want to go into the commercial world to get a full on Ph. D. or just a Masters.

If you think that you _ever_ may want to return to teach at a college level -- Get the Ph.D. Now it the time that it is easiest. Young, single, used to slavery...

If you think that you _ever_ may want to return to teach at a college level -- Get the Ph.D. Now it the time that it is easiest. Young, single, used to slavery...

Ok, great!

Ok, great!Did I emphasize the slavery part, enough? My committee was okay, but I know my adviser like having me around because I was more thorough than a lot of his other students. Plus, I knew how to use Latex to type his papers. It took an enormous amount of effort and quite a few threats, to graduate in three years (post M.S.), but we're still friendly.

I also like how you mention nursing - one of the lowest paid professions on the planet - a truck driver or wal-mart manager will earn way more than a nurse, and they in turn earn much less than skilled trades.

wow are you behind the times. nursing is now a very well paid profession. registered nurse with (or sometimes without) a college degree

my sister earned $80k last year as a floor nurse at a hospital in florida.

its a great profession for someone who anticipates needing extra time for family. you can work full time but only have to work 3 days a week. if you are married and your spouse needs to move for a better job, you can move and lose almost nothing in pay. many hospitals will pay a bonus for you to come work for them. if you like management the hospital you work for will likely pay for your college degree in health managment and pretty soon you will be making serious money. if you cant make that kind of money in your country, come to the US. its a guaranteed work visa (for registered nurses) and they will treat you very well.

you can become a registered nurse in many states (of the united states) with a 2 year associates degree. then you can work at any hospital in the country. its a great job for anyone who can stand to work with sick people and wants the freedom to move around.

as to the original question no you dont need a college degree for a good life. i do recommend some kind of post highschool training to get you started at a higher wage though.

Did I emphasize the slavery part, enough? My committee was okay, but I know my adviser like having me around because I was more thorough than a lot of his other students. Plus, I knew how to use Latex to type his papers. It took an enormous amount of effort and quite a few threats, to graduate in three years (post M.S.), but we're still friendly.

The slavery I can handle. I've dealt with it the past 20 years with my parents.

It just seems lots of people assume that a career that does not need a suit must be low paying.
That's nonsense. I don't think I've ever seen most of my profs in a suit.

I can think of two times I've ever seen them wearing anything that's businessey attire: once I saw one of my profs on his way to apply for more grant money and he looked pretty spiffy, another time there was this nice dinner for the graduating class and all the profs got dressed up.

Every other time I see them they're usually in jeans and t-shirts/sweaters.


And they get paid damn well and have had plenty of education.

Wow.

How long has that been a requirement? Seems pretty strange that someone needs four years studying literature before they can be trusted with a fire hose these days...
Here they don't take literature, they go to police college which is what people in the US would probably refer to as a community college... they go for two years and get all the training they'd need.

That's nonsense. I don't think I've ever seen most of my profs in a suit.

I can think of two times I've ever seen them wearing anything that's businessey attire: once I saw one of my profs on his way to apply for more grant money and he looked pretty spiffy, another time there was this nice dinner for the graduating class and all the profs got dressed up.

Every other time I see them they're usually in jeans and t-shirts/sweaters.

And they get paid damn well and have had plenty of education.
Firstly I think you are taking the "wearing a suit" a little too literally rather than as a figure of speech. Perhaps I should have written "jobs where people expect to get their clothes dirty through their work normally in manual trades" for the more anal individuals out there who seem to fail to realise the term - in the context of a thread about college education - refered to jobs that do not require a college education. Sort of like "Blue-collar" jobs do not mean you literally wear a blue collar, like I for example am literally wearing a blue collar right now while working in a 'white collar' job.

Secondly - I did not say everyone. I said "lots of people" it is quite possible that you are not "lots of people" - however in general there is an assumption both here and out in the big wide world that jobs where you don't wear a suit, or if you prefer - jobs where you can expect to get dirty/do not go to college for - pay badly - carpentry, mechanics, plumbing, building, welding are all well paying 'manual' jobs.

As an aside, Do you know what your lecturers were actually paid? What did they lecture in? And what do you define as "Damn Well"?

Firstly I think you are taking the "wearing a suit" a little too literally rather than as a figure of speech. Perhaps I should have written "jobs where people expect to get their clothes dirty through their work normally in manual trades" for the more anal individuals out there who seem to fail to realise the term - in the context of a thread about college education - refered to jobs that do not require a college education. Sort of like "Blue-collar" jobs do not mean you literally wear a blue collar, like I for example am literally wearing a blue collar right now while working in a 'white collar' job.
I think some of the experimentalists might get their hands dirty from time to time. They do have to set up some machinery and the like, although I think a lot of it's more laser beams and the like that's not going to be too messy...

Secondly - I did not say everyone. I said "lots of people" it is quite possible that you are not "lots of people" - however in general there is an assumption both here and out in the big wide world that jobs where you don't wear a suit, or if you prefer - jobs where you can expect to get dirty/do not go to college for - pay badly - carpentry, mechanics, plumbing, building, welding are all well paying 'manual' jobs.

As an aside, Do you know what your lecturers were actually paid? What did they lecture in? And what do you define as "Damn Well"?
My profs seem to get a range of salaries from around 120k-200k (CDN) [except one prof who I think was head-hunted from another school who gets like 250k or something] depending on what their contracts are. They lecture in various topics in physics and do a lot of research for the university as well, except for one or two who just lecture and get paid less.

I've never looked into what my philos profs get paid...

I've been wondering this, lately because I saw this program where there are these two friends, one of them goes to college and the other didn't. Both of them had pretty good lives. There seems to be alot of focus on going to college, and get a good job etc. However, does one really need college to find a good job? Is the scare tactics of "If you don't go to college you'll end up in the slums" even accurate? I went to college myself, mainly because I didn't have any real marketable skills that I could use in the real world, so I'm studying to become an archivist. So, what do you guys think, do you really need college in order to lead a good life?

It would depend on what one considers a "good job". If doing something that makes you happy and you don't need a college degree ..then you don't need to go to make a good life.


Sure you go to college to gain more knowledge in a specific career and the more you know..the better off you are of landing that job.

If you think a good job ,and good life,requires a higher salary..sure..people tend to get better pay with a college degree, but there are also jobs out there where one isn't required and you make pretty good money. (ie.- US Postal Service, or almost any Federal job for that matter)

I've been wondering this, lately because I saw this program where there are these two friends, one of them goes to college and the other didn't. Both of them had pretty good lives. There seems to be alot of focus on going to college, and get a good job etc. However, does one really need college to find a good job? Is the scare tactics of "If you don't go to college you'll end up in the slums" even accurate? I went to college myself, mainly because I didn't have any real marketable skills that I could use in the real world, so I'm studying to become an archivist. So, what do you guys think, do you really need college in order to lead a good life?


All depends what you want I guess, sure you don't need a better education, or more education, but I guess it can't hurt?

For the record I did go to collage when I was 25, for IT and it changed my life.

do you really need college in order to lead a good life?

No, but it really, really helps.

It's possible to live pretty decently without college, but by and large if you want to really have a high standard of living, secure retirement, and plenty of money you're going to have to go to college. It's getting harder and harder to find well-paying positions that don't require a college degree.

I could've owned a pub!

I own a pub myself. It does very well and no college degree required. I also am part owner of a insurance business. That too does well and again no college degree required. There are tons of careers and opportunities out there that do not require a college degree. One could go to trades school and do very well for ones self. I think the only reason a person should go to college is for a very specific degree such as doctor, lawyer etc. Someone going to college to just go is ridiculous.

If you think that you _ever_ may want to return to teach at a college level -- Get the Ph.D. Now it the time that it is easiest. Young, single, used to slavery...

Though some colleges offer some nice perks ... like the one I teach at offers to pay for my PHD ... Sometimes it is worth working with just your masters to GET your PHD

I own a pub myself. It does very well and no college degree required. I also am part owner of a insurance business. That too does well and again no college degree required. There are tons of careers and opportunities out there that do not require a college degree. One could go to trades school and do very well for ones self. I think the only reason a person should go to college is for a very specific degree such as doctor, lawyer etc. Someone going to college to just go is ridiculous.


Really I don't agree wit you on that score I'm afraid. Does nobody do things just for the experiacne anymore?

I've been wondering this, lately because I saw this program where there are these two friends, one of them goes to college and the other didn't. Both of them had pretty good lives. There seems to be alot of focus on going to college, and get a good job etc. However, does one really need college to find a good job? Is the scare tactics of "If you don't go to college you'll end up in the slums" even accurate? I went to college myself, mainly because I didn't have any real marketable skills that I could use in the real world, so I'm studying to become an archivist. So, what do you guys think, do you really need college in order to lead a good life?
College is for pussies. Thats why I went there.

I own a pub myself. It does very well and no college degree required. I also am part owner of a insurance business. That too does well and again no college degree required. There are tons of careers and opportunities out there that do not require a college degree. One could go to trades school and do very well for ones self. I think the only reason a person should go to college is for a very specific degree such as doctor, lawyer etc. Someone going to college to just go is ridiculous.
I went just to go...

...and there are a whole pile of careers you can get with a college degree that you can't otherwise, even if you didn't have a plan going into it. To say that you should only go on to higher education if you're going to be a doctor or a lawyer is retarded.

I own a pub myself. It does very well and no college degree required. I also am part owner of a insurance business. That too does well and again no college degree required. There are tons of careers and opportunities out there that do not require a college degree. One could go to trades school and do very well for ones self. I think the only reason a person should go to college is for a very specific degree such as doctor, lawyer etc. Someone going to college to just go is ridiculous.
I went just to go... I was interested in a subject so I went to school to study it and I still don't have a specific career in mind for when I finish and I'm in my last year of study...

...and there are a whole pile of careers you can get with a college degree that you can't otherwise, even if you didn't have a plan going into it. To say that you should only go on to higher education if you're going to be a doctor or a lawyer is retarded.

I went just to go...

...and there are a whole pile of careers you can get with a college degree that you can't otherwise, even if you didn't have a plan going into it. To say that you should only go on to higher education if you're going to be a doctor or a lawyer is retarded.

I suppose that some employers will simply see that you have a degree in something and will believe that you must not be a total idiot. I hope.

I've been wondering this, lately because I saw this program where there are these two friends, one of them goes to college and the other didn't. Both of them had pretty good lives. There seems to be alot of focus on going to college, and get a good job etc. However, does one really need college to find a good job? Is the scare tactics of "If you don't go to college you'll end up in the slums" even accurate? I went to college myself, mainly because I didn't have any real marketable skills that I could use in the real world, so I'm studying to become an archivist. So, what do you guys think, do you really need college in order to lead a good life?

You don't necessarily need college to get a good job, but you're not going to get one from strangers by the sweat of your brow. If your father or uncle is a plumber, electrician, or mechanic or some other highly specialized blue-collar worker you'll be fine without college. Unless you're one of those people who enjoys learning for its own sake then college is going to be a waste of time for you.

A lot of people confuse education with vocational training. The two aren't the same. It is entierly possible to be an uneducated doctor. You can be well trained in medicine, but no nothing about the world. In fact, the way residents work 36 hour shifts, it would be very difficult to know anything about the world once you are once again master of your own destiny.

College isn't just, or even mostly, about training you for the workforce. Sure, if you become an engineer or something, but plenty of people who go into biochemistry or medicine got their BA in art.

Train just means you're one in a line of others. Educate means you've been elevated.

I've been wondering this, lately because I saw this program where there are these two friends, one of them goes to college and the other didn't. Both of them had pretty good lives. There seems to be alot of focus on going to college, and get a good job etc. However, does one really need college to find a good job? Is the scare tactics of "If you don't go to college you'll end up in the slums" even accurate? I went to college myself, mainly because I didn't have any real marketable skills that I could use in the real world, so I'm studying to become an archivist. So, what do you guys think, do you really need college in order to lead a good life?

Oohhh. A fave pet peeve of mine. I'll try and post my particular rantish point of view on this shortly...

The basics: yes, the entire university system as it exists in the US, and probably for the rest of the world, at a very minimum needs an extensive overhaul, functionally a re-boot.

The university has a particular purpose (a liberal education), but many off-purpose functions that would be better served elsewhere (through tech schools, apprenticeships, and internships) ought to be severed.

For what I plan to do, I probably don't need it, but there's so much pressure that you have to go or you'll have a sucky life. People who go to college end up having a sucky life anyway, so...

For what I plan to do, I probably don't need it, but there's so much pressure that you have to go or you'll have a sucky life. People who go to college end up having a sucky life anyway, so...

Well after going you get to enjoy paying back your student loans. That is certainly fun.

I think the only reason a person should go to college is for a very specific degree such as doctor, lawyer etc. Someone going to college to just go is ridiculous.

Yeah, learning is stupid! :rolleyes:

So many people seem to believe that the sole purpose of college is to assist one in getting a lucrative job later, and that's just...incomprehensible to me. I went to college because I wanted to gain a better understanding of music theory, know more about neuroscience, debate the relative merits of Hume and Kant with other intelligent people, read Faulkner while working in the chem lab and discuss politics while working in the music lab. I went to college to learn and to become a better, more well-rounded person, and the idea that this is less essential to having a good life than being able to afford to buy new cars and fancy clothes is utterly absurd to me.

Yeah, learning is stupid! :rolleyes:

So many people seem to believe that the sole purpose of college is to assist one in getting a lucrative job later, and that's just...incomprehensible to me. I went to college because I wanted to gain a better understanding of music theory, know more about neuroscience, debate the relative merits of Hume and Kant with other intelligent people, read Faulkner while working in the chem lab and discuss politics while working in the music lab. I went to college to learn and to become a better, more well-rounded person, and the idea that this is less essential to having a good life than being able to afford to buy new cars and fancy clothes is utterly absurd to me.
Yeah, I went to university because astrophysics interested me. It still does, which is why I'm applying to grad school.

No, you don't need college. Its not hard to make a descent life without college.

No, you don't need college. Its not hard to make a descent life without college.

Depends on what you want to do, like I said to the OP if all you want is a reasonable income then yes, you can do it without

But there are avenues that will always be closed without that higher education.

No, you don't need college. Its not hard to make a descent life without college.
Exactly. Selling shoes comes to mind.

you dont NECESSARILY need college (especially if you have any talents that are marketable on their own) but it sure can help you get a leg up in corporate America

you dont NECESSARILY need college (especially if you have any talents that are marketable on their own) but it sure can help you get a leg up in corporate America
Or anywhere else. If your one of those nerdy, "reading is cool" pussies.

No. For most people, college is a waste of time and money. And in most professions, a college degree only signifies that you've had enough determination to tough out the four years-you don't use most of the "skills" that were taught to you. This is especially true for those in the social services.

However, college is supposed to be a fun and mind-opening experience, so just that ensures the survival of colleges into the near future.

Or anywhere else. If your one of those nerdy, "reading is cool" pussies.

Nerds are so uncool - imagine being some lamo like Bill Gates.

Nerds are so uncool - imagine being some lamo like Bill Gates.
Exactly. Just look at his hair OMFGLMAO!!1111 Be cool!!! Live in a trailer!!! Dentists are for fags. Why else would they let another man fondle around in their mouths?

Well, I don't particularly - but hey, knock yourself out.

Exactly. Just look at his hair OMFGLMAO!!1111 Be cool!!! Live in a trailer!!! Dentists are for fags. Why else would they let another man fondle around in their mouths?

no - living in a man-made home is too pussyish too, if you don't live in a cave and eat raw meat from animals that you killed with your bare hands, then you are pretty much a little girl

no - living in a man-made home is too pussyish too, if you don't live in a cave and eat raw meat from animals that you killed with your bare hands, then you are pretty much a little girl

What if you live in a cave and eat raw meat from animals that somebody else killed with their bare hands?

no - living in a man-made home is too pussyish too, if you don't live in a cave and eat raw meat from animals that you killed with your bare hands, then you are pretty much a little girl
Good point. But theres a handfull of man made stuff a real man can't do without. Beer. A fridge to keep the beer cold. Healthy snacks. Like chips, fries, burgers etc.... A TV with remote and VCR. And a couch from where he can watch the TV while scratching his balls.

What if you live in a cave and eat raw meat from animals that somebody else killed with their bare hands?
Thats ok. As long as you don't give the other a handparty for the meat.

Thats ok. As long as you don't give the other a handparty for the meat.

But what if you gave a really manly handparty?

It's possible to live pretty decently without college, but by and large if you want to really have a high standard of living, secure retirement, and plenty of money you're going to have to go to college. It's getting harder and harder to find well-paying positions that don't require a college degree.
*sings 'look for the union label...*
If the company and the union don't screw around with the pension funds, retiring from the railroad, or the UAW is a pretty good deal. Not to mention some of the stevedores that make well over $100k per year driving the cranes that unload containers.

But what if you gave a really manly handparty?
Well, as long as it's manly enough and just for good, wholesome fun it's cool. But not if you give him one in exchange for the meat. That would make it faggaroshis.

Fuck. :(

Don't despair. Last time I checked, you didn't need to go to college to win the lottery, be a hit man, or pimp the 'ho's.

It's possible to live pretty decently without college, but by and large if you want to really have a high standard of living, secure retirement, and plenty of money you're going to have to go to college. It's getting harder and harder to find well-paying positions that don't require a college degree.

Fuck. :(

College is not the be-all and end-all of success, but it can be a route to success.

The main problem is that people are going to college for the wrong reason, which is to land a job. That's better accomplished by working during high school and building up your work history.

What happened to learning for its own sake? Some of the classes I enjoyed the most had nothing to do with my major (computer science). I still have the cauldron, mask and relief sculpture I made in ceramics. My mom still has the copybook, sampler and Celtic ink design from my crafts class. Some of my best writing came from my creative writing classes. I learned that I can play a guitar and that I'm actually good at math. I beefed up my Spanish skills and learned a little Japanese. I learned that I have an innate talent to make awesome clothes and developed my own unique fashion sense. I used to bemoan living in the boondocks and having no money, but learned that I could have it A LOT worse. I learned that speaking in public is not the death sentence I feared it to be. And the inner city isn't nearly as dangerous as people think it is as long as you aren't stupid about it.

All of this I probably would not have learned had I not gone to college. I also picked up a couple of awesome references that I still use when I go on the job-hunt.

A college education shows employers that you possess important abilities, such as setting and meeting long-term goals, time-management skills, prioritizing, and budgeting. If you went to a liberal arts college, you show that you are a well-spoken, well-rounded, well-educated individual. You get professional references and sometimes important job leads.

Not going to college doesn't make you a loser. My brother decided to become a mechanic and makes more than I do. But to enrich and challenge yourself, it doesn't hurt.

*sings 'look for the union label...*
If the company and the union don't screw around with the pension funds, retiring from the railroad, or the UAW is a pretty good deal. Not to mention some of the stevedores that make well over $100k per year driving the cranes that unload containers.

Of course, it's also true that the average age of a production-line worker at GM or Ford is almost 60; the companies are cutting jobs, and they're not hiring young workers who would come in with even richer benefits than the older employees get, so there's no chance there.

You could work at Toyota or Honda, maybe. They're hiring and building new plants...

Fuck. :(

You can do pretty well if you go to a trade school, perhaps as a way of getting to college. The military's also a good way to go if you have trouble affording college, and more and more companies are actively searching for veterans to fill positions so there's more demand for their skills out there.

Now, getting by with a high-school education...that's next to impossible unless you start a company, win the lottery, or become an apprentice to a trade.

I've been wondering this, lately because I saw this program where there are these two friends, one of them goes to college and the other didn't. Both of them had pretty good lives. There seems to be alot of focus on going to college, and get a good job etc. However, does one really need college to find a good job? Is the scare tactics of "If you don't go to college you'll end up in the slums" even accurate? I went to college myself, mainly because I didn't have any real marketable skills that I could use in the real world, so I'm studying to become an archivist. So, what do you guys think, do you really need college in order to lead a good life?

It hasn't done you any good. That alone is a compelling argument. But I think the question should have been...does College need you?

You can do pretty well if you go to a trade school, perhaps as a way of getting to college. The military's also a good way to go if you have trouble affording college, and more and more companies are actively searching for veterans to fill positions so there's more demand for their skills out there.

Now, getting by with a high-school education...that's next to impossible unless you start a company, win the lottery, or become an apprentice to a trade.

That's strange. Both of my parents seem to get on fine, and so do I.

You can do pretty well if you go to a trade school, perhaps as a way of getting to college. The military's also a good way to go if you have trouble affording college, and more and more companies are actively searching for veterans to fill positions so there's more demand for their skills out there.

Now, getting by with a high-school education...that's next to impossible unless you start a company, win the lottery, or become an apprentice to a trade.

I'll be honest, I tried college, and it wasn't for me (I never finished it). A trade school sounds doable, except that they don't teach anything even remotely of interest to me. :headbang:

I'll be honest, I tried college, and it wasn't for me (I never finished it). A trade school sounds doable, except that they don't teach anything even remotely of interest to me. :headbang:

There's more out there. You just have to be willing to do something. That's the only real problem with not going to college. With college, you have a wide variety of work fields you can go into, fields that are fun and interesting. Generally, jobs that only require high school diplomas [but can still generate a lot of money] tend to be a little more mundane. If it puts food on the table though, what the hell.

I'll be honest, I tried college, and it wasn't for me (I never finished it). A trade school sounds doable, except that they don't teach anything even remotely of interest to me. :headbang:

Become a prostitute. Become rich on your back. Or knees. Whatever position you favor.

I'm teaching myself engineering, and plan on making connections to get a job. It's cheaper, less stressful, and I'm getting a better education because if I have trouble with something, I can take the time needed to make sure I understand it. Frankly, I don't know why more people don't do it this way.

As it pertains to the topic at hand: I'll find out soon enough whether a degree is required, but nothing worth having ever came easy.

Fuck. :(
Don't worry, the free market will sort it all out.

Become a prostitute. Become rich on your back. Or knees. Whatever position you favor.

Ha, ha, ha, ha, how about...no. x.x

I'm teaching myself engineering, and plan on making connections to get a job. It's cheaper, less stressful, and I'm getting a better education because if I have trouble with something, I can take the time needed to make sure I understand it. Frankly, I don't know why more people don't do it this way.

As it pertains to the topic at hand: I'll find out soon enough whether a degree is required, but nothing worth having ever came easy.

More people could do it that way, but I'll make the point thats been made several times before in this thread. Sure, you know a lot about engineering. But how much do you know about engineering history? Or Philosophy? Psychology? D you /really/ know what Lenin said? Do you understand the conflict in Yugoslavia?

Do you understand how the human mind might work, where we come from, and how frail the rule of law is?

University isn't just about "I'm gonna be an electrician." (Though, for far too many, this is what it boils down to.) Its about getting an /education/.

So many people seem to believe that the sole purpose of college is to assist one in getting a lucrative job later, and that's just...incomprehensible to me. I went to college because I wanted to gain a better understanding of music theory, know more about neuroscience, debate the relative merits of Hume and Kant with other intelligent people, read Faulkner while working in the chem lab and discuss politics while working in the music lab. I went to college to learn and to become a better, more well-rounded person, and the idea that this is less essential to having a good life than being able to afford to buy new cars and fancy clothes is utterly absurd to me.
If you are unable to do a lot of that without needing to go to college for four years then you are not a very resourceful person - chem lab is a bit harder as it requires specific resources however I suspect you will still get the same out of Faulkner if you read it in the Park or from the comfort of your own home. If you are unable to become a well rounded person without going to college then you should really get out more.

It always always amazes me how some people argue you should go to college on the basis that it gives you a greater understanding of the world around you and of society at large seem to have this absrud view that people who did not go are somehow unable to do this. That someone who claims to have learned about the world around them can understand it so badly.

If you are unable to do a lot of that without needing to go to college for four years then you are not a very resourceful person - chem lab is a bit harder as it requires specific resources however I suspect you will still get the same out of Faulkner if you read it in the Park or from the comfort of your own home. If you are unable to become a well rounded person without going to college then you should really get out more.

It always always amazes me how some people argue you should go to college on the basis that it gives you a greater understanding of the world around you and of society at large seem to have this absrud view that people who did not go are somehow unable to do this. That someone who claims to have learned about the world around them can understand it so badly.

You /can/ do this without college, of course. But college does provide a framework and organized curriculum, examination procedures, and qualified professors. Kinda makes Lenin's Imperialism a little easier when you have a Ph.D. helping you through it.

If you are unable to do a lot of that without needing to go to college for four years then you are not a very resourceful person - chem lab is a bit harder as it requires specific resources however I suspect you will still get the same out of Faulkner if you read it in the Park or from the comfort of your own home. If you are unable to become a well rounded person without going to college then you should really get out more.

It always always amazes me how some people argue you should go to college on the basis that it gives you a greater understanding of the world around you and of society at large seem to have this absrud view that people who did not go are somehow unable to do this. That someone who claims to have learned about the world around them can understand it so badly.

Education is condensed knowledge.

Yes, you can read Faulkner everywhere. But to fully understand his works you will need to know a lot more than what can be gained by just reading the book. You will need to know about the author, his lifetime, his biography, and most importantly, you will need different views on his works than just your own. Show me anywhere outside educational institutions that offers you an opportunity to get all this information within 2 hours.

I never went to college for the simple reason that there are none in Germany, but I did go to school for 13 years. And here are some of the questions I was asked in my lifetime by people who only did 9-10 years :

What causes earthquakes?
Where does earwax come from, and what is it's purpose?
What's AIDS and why is it so difficult to find a cure?
Why were Roman swords not as sharp as Japanese swords?
Why are flatscreens better for your eyes?
Why do Africans have dark skin and Europeans light skin?
Why is Germany no longer a monarchy?
What was so bad about the British rule in Ireland?
How does nuclear power work, and what's so dangerous about it?

Those are just a few questions, some of them definitely are trivial, but others are vital in order to understand the world around you.
I know you'll tell me in a moment that people who really want to know all that can look it up somewhere if they're motivated enough. But guess what, everything they would find would be written by people who did go to college or university. *gasp*
So, yes, education will give you a better understanding of the world. That's the whole purpose of education in the first place.

You /can/ do this without college, of course. But college does provide a framework and organized curriculum, examination procedures, and qualified professors. Kinda makes Lenin's Imperialism a little easier when you have a Ph.D. helping you through it.

It sounded more like the poster did a lot of that stuff outside the supervision of lecturers - or studied different subjects in class to what their lecturer supervised in. Even then - I know we are all mentioning very high-brow aspects of university but most of it is not spent discussing Kant in an idyllic setting on a summers day in the Quad. I also suspect that the majority of college students never study Lenin's Imperialism, and I suspect they manage to have a decent understanding of the world around them.

I suppose I am just looking at this from the perspective of someone who went to college who happens to know a lot of people who did not through both work and through social activity.

My Rugby club is an odd mix of stockbrokers, publishers (he left school at 16 and runs his own magazine, oddly enough it is a specialist magazine for Lawyers), accountants, lawyers, carpenters, builders, mechanics and personal trainers - just for starters. And I can tell you that none of them have any difficulty in understanding the world about them, most of them are pretty sharp individuals and all can manage to talk on a range of subjects.

In my work I regulary come across lay people - and if you believe that someone who did not go to college is a dull slow individual then you better be prepared for a severe kick up the backside when you come across people with razor sharp minds who have some very probing questions about what your residential development means to them.

I never went to college for the simple reason that there are none in Germany, but I did go to school for 13 years. And here are some of the questions I was asked in my lifetime by people who only did 9-10 years :

What causes earthquakes?
Where does earwax come from, and what is it's purpose?
What's AIDS and why is it so difficult to find a cure?
Why were Roman swords not as sharp as Japanese swords?
Why are flatscreens better for your eyes?
Why do Africans have dark skin and Europeans light skin?
Why is Germany no longer a monarchy?
What was so bad about the British rule in Ireland?
How does nuclear power work, and what's so dangerous about it?

Those are just a few questions, some of them definitely are trivial, but others are vital in order to understand the world around you.

I know you'll tell me in a moment that people who really want to know all that can look it up somewhere if they're motivated enough. But guess what, everything they would find would be written by people who did go to college or university. *gasp*
So, yes, education will give you a better understanding of the world. That's the whole purpose of education in the first place.
Do you need to have gone to college to be able to know/understand/look up the answers to any of those questions?

Yes they were written by people who went to college, but why does that mean you have to go to college yourself to read them or understand them?

Also - this line seems to refer to a liberal arts education. Are you saying that someone who did not go to a liberal arts college is unable to understand the world about them?

I'll be honest, I tried college, and it wasn't for me (I never finished it). A trade school sounds doable, except that they don't teach anything even remotely of interest to me. :headbang:

LEt me help you find something.

What about being a pyrotechnician?

You can work with band while you do stage shows or you can work in the movies and blow up cars and work with guns and stuff. OR you can make fireworks!!!!

I've been wondering this, lately because I saw this program where there are these two friends, one of them goes to college and the other didn't. Both of them had pretty good lives. There seems to be alot of focus on going to college, and get a good job etc. However, does one really need college to find a good job? Is the scare tactics of "If you don't go to college you'll end up in the slums" even accurate? I went to college myself, mainly because I didn't have any real marketable skills that I could use in the real world, so I'm studying to become an archivist. So, what do you guys think, do you really need college in order to lead a good life?
It's perfectly possible to lead a good life without college. However, particular paths in life require college. If you want to pursue one of those paths, you need college. Pretty simple, eh?

Do you need to have gone to college to be able to know/understand/look up the answers to any of those questions?

Yes they were written by people who went to college, but why does that mean you have to go to college yourself to read them or understand them?

In my opinion, going to a good college (and actually sincerely trying to learn there) will help you be better able to evaluate those sources and decide for yourself if they are actually authoritative. It will also help you be more able to test your ideas and theories for yourself.

Simply having gone to some college somewhere isn't going to do snot for you. If you go to a shitty school, it's probably not going to help you all that much. If you go to a great school and do nothing to learn or to take advantage of it, it's not going to help you at all. But if you go to college because you want to learn and improve your ability to move through the world, it can be wonderfully beneficial.


Also - this line seems to refer to a liberal arts education. Are you saying that someone who did not go to a liberal arts college is unable to understand the world about them?
The more you learn about the world, the better able you are to understand it. College provides a host of wonderful opportunities to do this. Some people never take advantage of them, of course, but the fact remains that you're going to be hard-pressed to find any other environment specifically dedicated to providing these options to novices/laypeople.

That's strange. Both of my parents seem to get on fine, and so do I.

What do your parents do?

What do your parents do?

Another question is how old are his parents ... from what I am hearing from the new job market (entry positions) NOW it is a LOT harder then it has been in the past.

Its great if they started in the 70's ore 80's and now have 20+ years of experience but how hard is it for someone now to enter the job market with only highschool diploma and no experience

What do your parents do?

My dad was a general manager at a restaurant about a month ago, but now he owns a restaurant. My mother has her own housecleaning business. We own four televisions, one of which is 37 inches, we have HBO, we've got three house computers on high-speed internet, our house is on the water and we own it. All of the money used to buy all of this was their own. I'm the second of three children.

So both of my parents, who have high school diplomas and no schooling or paid-for training, have managed to have three kids and live quite comfortably. Before my dad went into business ownership, he was making around 40,000 dollars a year, while my mother makes somewhere around 20,000.

I think your original statement is very misguided...I work with a lot of people who get on fine with just a high school diploma. Some are cooks, while others are involved in jobs you probably wouldn't give a second thought to. Restaurants have laundry services for towels and aprons...every Wednesday a man in a van comes and picks up all of our dirty laundry and the floor mats in the server allies and he takes them to be washed. The towel man dropped out of high school and guess what--he makes a decent living.

Restaurants get their food supplies from these huge companies. The one I worked at was supplied by Sisco. Every Monday a Sisco delivery man comes and heaves all the boxes of food he's bringing into the freezer. Do you think he went to college? Or for that matter, any vocational training? He too does just fine. Than there's the soda guys, the beer guys, the knife people, the corporate supervisors...this is just in a restauarant.

I know high school drop outs that make a decent living. Some of the people I've worked with have gone onto construction work, which has a million different branches you can get into and make a lot of money with.

All of these jobs, while some admittedly requiring more skills than others, require at most a high school diploma. And these people I know? They get on fine. These jobs, while they require on-the-job training, they don't have schools (with the exception of culinary, but that's a joke). An unskilled person with just a high school education can easily live comfortably. It all boils down to motivation.

Another question is how old are his parents ... from what I am hearing from the new job market (entry positions) NOW it is a LOT harder then it has been in the past.

Its great if they started in the 70's ore 80's and now have 20+ years of experience but how hard is it for someone now to enter the job market with only highschool diploma and no experience

My dad was in his early thirties when he started cooking in the food industry. My mother didn't start housecleaning until we moved down to Florida, around 1997. My father is 49-years-old, and he had the general manager job for the last four years. To give you some perspective, he and I have both worked with 22 and 23-year-old general managers respectively.

Do you need to have gone to college to be able to know/understand/look up the answers to any of those questions?

Yes they were written by people who went to college, but why does that mean you have to go to college yourself to read them or understand them?

Also - this line seems to refer to a liberal arts education. Are you saying that someone who did not go to a liberal arts college is unable to understand the world about them?

You don't need to go to university to get an /answer/ to those questions no. But your more likely to come across answers to those questions in college. Why? Because college is the place folks /ask/ questions. Thats the whole point. You go there to learn, and you ask questions or learn things that might not normally come up in day-to-day life. You learn to think critically, and, like its been pointed out, you hear other viewpoints on a subject you might have only heard one on before.

University /facilitates/ understanding. I've met intelligent people who were well read and the like, and never went to college, but, going to college, you're going to get the information much faster because your working under an organized curriculum.

Not only that, but you're often forced to learn something you otherwise might not have learned. Because a university sets up graduation guidelines, such as, you need x amount of credits here, and x amount of credits here, your forced to continue along on certain paths you might not have considered before. Theres merit enough in that.

As for liberal arts colleges, most of the Public Universities in the United States /are/ liberal arts colleges, or, at least require a moderate liberal arts education via state guidelines.

But if your a science major, or your going to a state Maritime Academy, as long as they give you a well rounded education, and not 4 straight years of SHIPS, well, then yeah, I'd say the benefit is the same. (4 straight years of nautical training should probably be reserved for graduate school.) :)

interesting points, but the question "do we really need college" is only relevant for those living in countries where the middle education is unsatisfactory, and college is a form of study meant to close the gaps left from highschool and prepare you for the University.

More people could do it that way, but I'll make the point thats been made several times before in this thread. Sure, you know a lot about engineering. But how much do you know about engineering history? Or Philosophy? Psychology? D you /really/ know what Lenin said? Do you understand the conflict in Yugoslavia?

aside from engineering history, which unless you plan to specialise in Englineering you won't need, the rest at a basic level one can get from a half assed highschool education ( not the US kind mind you).

Do you understand how the human mind might work,
People who studied psychology and psichiatry for decades still can't answer that. We don't know how the human mind works, we just have a set of educated guesses.

where we come from,
most people know that before age 14
and how frail the rule of law is?

depending on where you live, by I'd say that by age 18 most people have a half educated idea about it, unlessliving in a cave, or a Communist state.

University isn't just about "I'm gonna be an electrician." (Though, for far too many, this is what it boils down to.) Its about getting an /education/.

College is NOT University. Confusing them tells me a lot more than I need to know about whoever posted this.

In the University, you ONLY study what is pertinent to your chosen profession.

College is NOT University. Confusing them tells me a lot more than I need to know about whoever posted this.

In the University, you ONLY study what is pertinent to your chosen profession.
Actually, in the US "college" tends to be used interchangeably with "university" when referring to undergraduate studies. The technical difference, as it's been explained to me, lies in the fact that universities grant graduate level degrees in addition to bachelor's degrees, while colleges do not.

I got my bachelor's degree from a university. Rest assured, I studied much more than what was pertinent to my chosen field.

Actually, in the US "college" tends to be used interchangeably with "university" when referring to undergraduate studies. The technical difference, as it's been explained to me, lies in the fact that universities grant graduate level degrees in addition to bachelor's degrees, while colleges do not.

I got my bachelor's degree from a university. Rest assured, I studied much more than what was pertinent to my chosen field.
Yeah, I think "university" and "college" mean different things in different countries. I also received my BA's from a university, and even though I studied for three of them at the same time I still managed to study some other additional subjects that didn't directly apply to any of them, let alone to my future profession.

Hell, I didn't even really HAVE a chosen profession until my senior year of college. A great many US college students don't enter university knowing what their profession will be. Some think they know what they want to do, but change their minds (and their majors). Some don't know at all.

Yeah, I think "university" and "college" mean different things in different countries. I also received my BA's from a university, and even though I studied for three of them at the same time I still managed to study some other additional subjects that didn't directly apply to any of them, let alone to my future profession.

Hell, I didn't even really HAVE a chosen profession until my senior year of college. A great many US college students don't enter university knowing what their profession will be. Some think they know what they want to do, but change their minds (and their majors). Some don't know at all.
Indeed. I changed my major more times than I care to count, and I didn't settle on a career path until six months after I graduated. But even if I had stuck to one major, I would have had ample time to explore other fields. If I'd wanted to, I could have taken a few more courses and gotten an MA at the time I graduated. I fail to see how people attending US universities for their undergraduate degrees can have time only for their field. Even my crazy friends double majoring in electrical engineering and computer science had time for fun classes.

And, uh, you have three BAs? :eek:

Yeah, I think "university" and "college" mean different things in different countries.

chalk it down to cultural differences then. Maybe some of the US posters need to remember that things don't work the same in other countries, and add a disclaimer as to that.

Do you need to have gone to college to be able to know/understand/look up the answers to any of those questions?

Yes they were written by people who went to college, but why does that mean you have to go to college yourself to read them or understand them?

Also - this line seems to refer to a liberal arts education. Are you saying that someone who did not go to a liberal arts college is unable to understand the world about them?

I never went to college, mainly because there are none in my home country. It might surprise you to learn that very few countries do colleges. I went to university.

Geology, biology, metalurgy, medical science and nuclear physics are liberal arts to you?
Seems to me there are a good few things about the world you don't understand, then...

I never went to college, mainly because there are none in my home country. It might surprise you to learn that very few countries do colleges. I went to university.

Geology, biology, metalurgy, medical science and nuclear physics are liberal arts to you?

Seems to me there are a good few things about the world you don't understand, then...
In a liberal arts education typical of the majority of colleges in the US you are taught a wide range of subjects - you take classes on biology, math, literature, languages, history, music - you study a very wide range of fields - not limited to the 'arts'. You can have a liberal arts education and major in Chemistry. Given the range of questions posed, if someone were to be taught the answers to all of them in the course of their degree they would have to have studied in a liberal arts education.



If they did a more focused degree they would be able to answer one or two of those questions thanks to their degree and the rest from just paying attention to the world around them.

I'm in the UK where higher education is university based - I studied Civil Engineering, however my knowlege of the world is strangely not limited to concrete and steel - through my experiences outside the classroom I pick up quite a bit, not enough to be expert but a decent working knowlege.

Can I check - what do you mean when you say 'college'?

Geology, biology, metalurgy, medical science and nuclear physics are liberal arts to you?

I received my degree in biology from a liberal arts university.

back in the day only the uber elite went to college or so Im led to believe, now over 50% of people get degrees which inevitably devalues them. However certain degrees will increase your chances of getting a job, e.g. physics, medicine, computer science etc. Not that a job should be someones life, although if they enjoy it is it even a job anymore?

back in the day only the uber elite went to college or so Im led to believe, now over 50% of people get degrees which inevitably devalues them. However certain degrees will increase your chances of getting a job, e.g. physics, medicine, computer science etc. Not that a job should be someones life, although if they enjoy it is it even a job anymore?

If I don't call it a job, they won't pay me. (I'm half serious there...)

I didn't need college, but I wanted it.