NationStates Jolt Archive

As part of the peace process, a train service was started between India and Pakistan to enable people visit their relatives across the border. Appears that two bogies caught fire and 64 are dead.

http://www.ibnlive.com/news/64-dead-in-samjhauta-express-fire/top/33888-3.html
New Delhi: In a suspected terror attack, two bogies of Samjhauta Express caught fire near Panipat in Haryana at around 2315 hrs IST on Sunday, leaving 64 people dead and over 50 injured.

The fire broke out in the train at Shiva Village under Chandni Bagh police station in Panipat district, about 100 kilometre from national capital Delhi. The train, also called Attari Express, was going from Delhi to Lahore via Attari in Punjab.

The injured have been admitted to a nearby hospital. Initial investigations reveal that cause of fire could be explosives. Security personnel later recovered three live bombs from the train and defused them.

“We are conducting an enquiry into the incident. Arms and explosives have been recovered from the site. Unwanted elements are trying to disturb the peace process between the two nations. I am rushing to the spot,” Union Railways Minister Lalu Prasad said.

The bi-weekly train had left Old Delhi Railway Station at 2240 hrs IST on Sunday. The fire was noticed in the last two bogies of the train when it reached the railway crossing near the village. Eyewitnesses say they heard an explosion before the train caught fire.

Rescue operations

Soon after the incident, police launched rescue operations along with the Railway police personnel and bomb disposal squad.

The charred bogies were taken out after the fire was extinguished by fire tenders, which came from Panipat and the nearby Indian Oil refinery.

After the separation of the two bogies, the train left for its destination at about 0300 hrs IST.

Planned terror attack?

Northern Railway General Manger V N Mathur, who reached the spot from Delhi, said two suitcases were recovered from the spot - one from the rail track and one from the train.

“This looks like a case of sabotage. Two suitcases with live bombs have been recovered from the site,” he told CNN-IBN.

Both the suitcases contained Improvised Explosive Devices (IED) - one of them also had incendiary material, either kerosene or petrol, he said.

Looks like both governments recognise fully well what the point of the attack was, which is a relief. That way they won't start blaming each other, which would play right into the terrorists' hands.

At some point though, I think, it might just pay for the Indian government to introduce better security on its trains. This is hardly the first time they were attacked, and every time a lot of innocent people lose their lives.

Life is cheap there.

There really is no way to stop terrorist attacks. With porous borders and infiltrations routes from Kashmir, Bangladesh, Nepal , recruitment base in Indian muslims and the sheer amount of places to be protected....there really is no way India can enforce an Israeli style security blanket.

Besides, the authorities might have thought that why would terrorists bomb one of their own (the train has Pak passengers too and most of the Indian passengers are muslims)

Besides, the authorities might have thought that why would terrorists bomb one of their own (the train has Pak passengers too and most of the Indian passengers are muslims)
That makes the assumption that the terrorist are Muslim.

Life is cheap there.


I don't think it's any cheaper than in occupied Iraq.

That makes the assumption that the terrorist are Muslim.

Duh.

Duh.

You're missing the point. These may not be muslim extremists. There are many different flavours of terrorists out there.

For instance this may have been a Pro-Annexation terrorist group that wants either one of the governments to take aggressive action over Kashmir, rather than Muslim extremists. Also, India is 80.5% Hindu and only 13.4% Muslim. Pakistan is in comparison 97% Muslim.

Duh.
And I'm SURE you have proof of this then.

Duh.
You're suggesting there's no Indians out there that detest Pakistanis and Muslims?

You're missing the point. These may not be muslim extremists. There are many different flavours of terrorists out there.

For instance this may have been a Pro-Annexation terrorist group that wants either one of the governments to take aggressive action over Kashmir, rather than Muslim extremists. Also, India is 80.5% Hindu and only 13.4% Muslim. Pakistan is in comparison 97% Muslim.

yeah yeah yeah...coulda woulda shoulda ....

Fact remains that 99.99999% of terrorist incidents in India are carried out by people calling themselves muslims. Note that rioting is different from terrorist incidents and militant hindu groups do riot. They just have not done any terrorist attacks (bombing trains, public places etc). You can certainly argue that rioting is a form of terrorism but as the words are in usage now, they mean different types of incidents.


And I'm SURE you have proof of this then.

Wanna bet ?

You're suggesting there's no Indians out there that detest Pakistanis and Muslims?

Nope. I am suggesting that the attack was carried out by people calling themselves muslims.

And it's not like this sort of thing has not happened before, done by muslim groups.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A32448-2005Apr6.html
Militant Raid Targets Bus Passengers in India
Kashmir Service to Launch as Planned

By John Lancaster
Washington Post Foreign Service
Thursday, April 7, 2005; Page A20

SRINAGAR, India, April 6 -- Islamic militants stormed a government complex that was supposed to be a haven for passengers scheduled to make a historic bus journey across the divided Himalayan region of Kashmir, setting the building ablaze and underscoring the continued threat to peace negotiations between India and Pakistan.

So :rolleyes:

Wanna bet ?
That you have proof? I'll take that because I know you don't. Wanna bet that you are so blinded by your hate of Pakistan you refuse to admit that there's a possibility that it wasn't Muslims? I'll take that bet to because I have seen what you post on the forums.

Instead of making broad statements that you can't even back up, why don't you wait for news like the rest of us before screaming about the 3v1L /\/\U5L1ms!!!!!111ONEONEELEVEN!!!

That you have proof? I'll take that because I know you don't. Wanna bet that you are so blinded by your hate of Pakistan you refuse to admit that there's a possibility that it wasn't Muslims? I'll take that bet to because I have seen what you post on the forums.

Instead of making broad statements that you can't even back up, why don't you wait for news like the rest of us before screaming about the 3v1L /\/\U5L1ms!!!!!111ONEONEELEVEN!!!

lol.

After 100 such incidents it is quite natural to assume about the 101st incident.

So keep your clever sounding @#*@^*&#^@*&11s to yourselves and propose a bet. :p

You're missing the point. These may not be muslim extremists. There are many different flavours of terrorists out there.

For instance this may have been a Pro-Annexation terrorist group that wants either one of the governments to take aggressive action over Kashmir, rather than Muslim extremists.

I have been reading your post again and again and your point totally escapes me.

Pray tell me what is a "Pro-Annexation" terrorist group ?

Annexing what to what ? Kashmir to Pakistan? There are many such groups and they are all muslim. So how is it different from a muslim extremist group (your usage of "rather than Muslim extremists")

Annexing Kashmir to India ? No such group exists because Kashmir is already annexed so to speak.

lol.

After 100 such incidents it is quite natural to assume about the 101st incident.

So keep your clever sounding @#*@^*&#^@*&11s to yourselves and propose a bet. :p
Why? You have already proved my point.

I really don't see why everyone is raving on about whether these people are muslim or not, does it really matter?

Fact is over 60 people are dead and relations between india and pakistan could be on the downturn.

and it shows that general people don't really hate eachother
People who live near the tracks rushed to the train with buckets of water soon after the fire broke out, and the blaze was eventually extinguished after fire trucks arrived.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/asia/article2284017.ece

Why? You have already proved my point.

lol. Whatever. :cool:

and it shows that general people don't really hate each other

It is human nature to help in such cases. I would not be one bit surprised if this happened in Pakistan and general Pakistanis responded to the crisis in the same way (helping out victims).

None of that discounts the existence of jihadi groups and the acts of terrorism they have carried out. That is my contention. Again it is not that there are no militant hindu groups around. But they riot (not that I condone that behaviour or that it is better or worse than terrorism etc etc I am not getting into that argument which is unrelated to this discussion)...my point is they have not (to my knowledge) carried out terrorist incidences like this.

But it is rather easy to throw bigot label and type clever little !!11s. ;)

IEDs?

Isn't that what the insurgents are using on US troops?

IEDs?

Isn't that what the insurgents are using on US troops?
Improvised explosive devices. Anyone can make them, and there's no fixed design. Make something that goes "boom" out of something that normally doesn't, and you've got yourself an IED.

Oh I see, so it's not like, a specific explosive.

It's the name of something that isn't a specific explosive.


Huh. :p

It is human nature to help in such cases. I would not be one bit surprised if this happened in Pakistan and general Pakistanis responded to the crisis in the same way (helping out victims).

None of that discounts the existence of jihadi groups and the acts of terrorism they have carried out. That is my contention. Again it is not that there are no militant hindu groups around. But they riot (not that I condone that behaviour or that it is better or worse than terrorism etc etc I am not getting into that argument which is unrelated to this discussion)...my point is they have not (to my knowledge) carried out terrorist incidences like this.

But it is rather easy to throw bigot label and type clever little !!11s. ;)


The leader of Shiv Sena, Bal Thackerey, has openly admitted that his organisation was involved in the killings of Muslims in order to teach the Muslims a lesson, since the latter were not ready to embrace the 'rules' of the country. Also investigations conducted by IPHRC stated in its findings that the January 1993 riots were an organised crime, committed by the Hindu extremists and criminals in collusion with the state police.

However, the worst carnage happened on February 27, 2002, when a train carrying Hindu pilgrims of the RSS returning home from Ayodhya, was attacked and two of its carriages set on fire at Godhra railway station in Gujarat, on what eventually turned out to be an act of connivance to stir up troubles. Initially blamed on Muslims, the worst communal holocaust erupted in which Hindu terrorists killed more than 1,000 people in two weeks of carnage, and about 150,000 Muslims were displaced as a result of the carnage.

Funny how it apparently was blamed on muslims, don't you think?

http://www.issi.org.pk/journal/2005_files/no_2/Article/a7.html

Well the Jews did perform acts of "terrorism" in the Israeli fight for independance, but that was against the British, not the civillians, even though some were killed. :(

Whatev. I wouldn't care that much about a terrorist attack, even if it happened in my country.