NationStates Jolt Archive

I just came across some figures for countries total external debt(public and private debt to crediters outside the country) and I was shocked at how high the UKs was compared to other counries, it is not that far off from the US:

Rank Country Debt - external Date of Information
1 World $ 44,620,000,000,000 2004 est.
2 United States $ 10,040,000,000,000 30 June 2006 est.
3 United Kingdom $ 8,280,000,000,000 30 June 2006
4 Germany $ 3,904,000,000,000 30 June 2006
5 France $ 3,461,000,000,000 30 June 2006
6 Italy $ 1,957,000,000,000 30 June 2006 est.
7 Netherlands $ 1,899,000,000,000 30 June 2006
8 Spain $ 1,591,000,000,000 30 June 2006 est.
9 Japan $ 1,547,000,000,000 30 June 2006
10 Ireland $ 1,392,000,000,000 30 June 2006
11 Switzerland $ 1,077,000,000,000 30 June 2006
12 Belgium $ 1,053,000,000,000 30 June 2006 est.
13 Canada $ 684,700,000,000 30 June 2006

link for above (https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/rankorder/2079rank.html)

Canada does nicely though having much lower debt levels.

When you look at the GDP rankings it highlights this even more, the US is roughly 6 times bigger by GDP but the UKs external debt is only about 80% of the US. :eek:

Rank Country GDP (millions of USD)
— World 44,454,843
— European Union 13,502,800
1 United States 12,455,825
2 Japan 4,567,441
3 Germany 2,791,737
4 People's Republic of China 2,234,133 2
5 United Kingdom 2,229,472
6 France 2,126,719
7 Italy 1,765,537
8 Canada 1,132,436


GDP wiki link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28nominal%29)

I knew the UK had a debt problem but this is scary.

I never thought we had that much debt relative to the rest of the world.

I knew the UK had a debt problem but this is scary.

Consumerist society. Always trying to keep up with the US sense of style or entertainment. Hence, we spend money at the same rate as the Americans. Debt is not nice. We're in debt now, have been since my dad left.

Consumerist society. Always trying to keep up with the US sense of style or entertainment. Hence, we spend money at the same rate as the Americans. Debt is not nice. We're in debt now, have been since my dad left.

I wouldn't say at the same rate, 60 million in the UK trying to keep up with 300 million.

Still, makes me think when the UK and the US combined make up 40% of the worlds total.

Consumerist society. Always trying to keep up with the US sense of style or entertainment. Hence, we spend money at the same rate as the Americans. Debt is not nice. We're in debt now, have been since my dad left.

LOL, but your country is so much smaller than the U.S. and your food sux.

LOL, but your country is so much smaller than the U.S. and your food sux.

Thanks, richard.

LOL, but your country is so much smaller than the U.S. and your food sux.

This from the country that gave us McDonalds - Then again American food must be good, look at the size of you lot.

I just came across some figures for countries total external debt(public and private debt to crediters outside the country) and I was shocked at how high the UKs was compared to other counries, it is not that far off from the US:


link for above (https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/rankorder/2079rank.html)

Canada does nicely though having much lower debt levels.

When you look at the GDP rankings it highlights this even more, the US is roughly 6 times bigger by GDP but the UKs external debt is only about 80% of the US. :eek:



GDP wiki link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28nominal%29)

I knew the UK had a debt problem but this is scary.

thankyou for putting the sources.... great research, very interesting stuff.

I knew the UK had a debt problem but this is scary.

Could it have anyting to do with the fact that the UK is an "island nation" and has to import more than it exports? I reall don't know and thought I'd ask.

LOL, but your country is so much smaller than the U.S. and your food sux.

Oh, American cuisine? Hamburgers? Mmm, tasty stuff. :rolleyes:
Fish and chips from the shop down my road is the nicest meal you will ever have. Ever. Period. Also, cream teas from Devon are very nice. :p

Oh, American cuisine? Hamburgers? Mmm, tasty stuff. :rolleyes:
Fish and chips from the shop down my road is the nicest meal you will ever have. Ever. Period. Also, cream teas from Devon are very nice. :p

I love English fish and chips with malt vinegar. Yummmm!

Could it have anyting to do with the fact that the UK is an "island nation" and has to import more than it exports? I reall don't know and thought I'd ask.

why would an island have to import more than a continental nation? on an island the borders are at the sea, on a continental nation they're where the other nation begins.

I never thought we had that much debt relative to the rest of the world.
We? You're Irish!

Oh, American cuisine? Hamburgers? Mmm, tasty stuff. :rolleyes:
Fish and chips from the shop down my road is the nicest meal you will ever have. Ever. Period. Also, cream teas from Devon are very nice. :p

REAL hamburgers arent that bad, McDonalds style ratburgers arent hamburgers :P
'Course I dont really mind myself. I dont eat 'em :P

And, IMO, the one weakness to British food is the presentation. Yeah, I admit, you guys make pretty decent food, but seriously, you need to work on how it looks just a bit :P

I love English fish and chips with malt vinegar. Yummmm!

Like I said. Tastiest meal, ever.

why would an island have to import more than a continental nation? on an island the borders are at the sea, on a continental nation they're where the other nation begins.

It is called a lack or limited natural resources. If you want to make say automobiles you have to import steel, rubber, etc. In the US we don't have to import the raw materials to make the steel. If you have to import a lot of goods you are more likely to have a trade deficity and more nation debt.

To compare these numbers sensibly, you should look at the debt per capita, not the absolute totals. Or perhaps look at at debt divided by the gross domestic product

LOL, but your country is so much smaller than the U.S. and your food sux.You have obviously never tried a mushroom and brie beef burger.

You could be misrepresenting the facts. From the same source one finds that the UK is ranked 61st out of 121 in terms of Public debt as a percentage of GDP.

Japan's public debt is 175% of its GDP, Israel's is 91%, and France and the USA have public debts that are 64.7% of GDP. Whereas the UK's public debt is 42.2% of its GDP.

I'm not saying that the UK doesn't have a debt problem - it does (buying things that do not make you money on money you do not have is very rarely a good idea).

Could it have anyting to do with the fact that the UK is an "island nation" and has to import more than it exports? I reall don't know and thought I'd ask.

We are running at a trade deficit at the moment, but that is only in the 10 of billions.

thankyou for putting the sources.... great research, very interesting stuff.

Cheers, I got interested when the bbc website 'have your say' had "Are you worried about debt" and someone commented that our debt level as a country was much higher then Germany's.

Eh, on a per capita basis, Switzerland's debt would worry me even more (divide the figures by about 7.5 million people according to wikipedia). However, I say 'would', because these numbers don't seem to be net debt, otherwise the world debt number should sum up to 0. Now, given a smaller country, it's reasonable to assume that a large part of trade is import and export - therefore, if you only look at the debt side, debt per capita is rather high.

Either that, or the world debt figure is about our debts to the Vulcans.

You could be misrepresenting the facts. From the same source one finds that the UK is ranked 61st out of 121 in terms of Public debt as a percentage of GDP.

Japan's public debt is 175% of its GDP, Israel's is 91%, and France and the USA have public debts that are 64.7% of GDP. Whereas the UK's public debt is 42.2% of its GDP.

I'm not saying that the UK doesn't have a debt problem - it does (buying things that do not make you money on money you do not have is very rarely a good idea).

That is true, though the debt I was quoting was total external debt which includes public debt as well as external debt for companies and individuals. Basically it is the total debt that the whole country is in to people, organisations and governments outside the country.

What your figures show is that the governments of the UK have not been as bad as other states. However everyone else in the country has not been so sensible. (I can't believe I said that about new labour)

I tried finding information that ranked countries by how much they loan out, as I have heard before that the UK was near the top of that as well but I haven't found any yet. This would certainly lesson the impact of such a high external debt.

Eh, on a per capita basis, Switzerland's debt would worry me even more (divide the figures by about 7.5 million people according to wikipedia). However, I say 'would', because these numbers don't seem to be net debt, otherwise the world debt number should sum up to 0. Now, given a smaller country, it's reasonable to assume that a large part of trade is import and export - therefore, if you only look at the debt side, debt per capita is rather high.

Either that, or the world debt figure is about our debts to the Vulcans.

You are correct in pointing out that Switzerland and other smaller countries are in a similar if not worse situation. I was still shocked though. It is true that this is not net debt as I could not find a nice list of net debt nor a list of amount countries had loaned out.

As to your last point, imports and exports should generally scale with size, though some smaller nations will be at an extreme as they are not large enough to smooth out the figures.

That is true, though the debt I was quoting was total external debt which includes public debt as well as external debt for companies and individuals. Basically it is the total debt that the whole country is in to people, organisations and governments outside the country.

What your figures show is that the governments of the UK have not been as bad as other states. However everyone else in the country has not been so sensible. (I can't believe I said that about new labour)

I tried finding information that ranked countries by how much they loan out, as I have heard before that the UK was near the top of that as well but I haven't found any yet. This would certainly lesson the impact of such a high external debt.You might be glad to know that I am not one of those british debtors. I think my capital is still greater than my student loan. :S

We are running at a trade deficit at the moment, but that is only in the 10 of billions.

Oil. The UK produces a pretty significant amount of oil and gas from its fields in the North Sea and it exports those products to the rest of the world generating a lot of hard currency that can offset the deficits in other areas.

Also, the UK exports a pretty significant amount of manufactured goods, so it further balances out the deficit.

Either that, or the world debt figure is about our debts to the Vulcans.

World debt would presumably be the difference between the world GDP and the amount of credit issued, but I couldn't tell you off the top of my head.

Either way, the amount of debt is meaningless as long as you can afford to pay for it.

if the whole world owes $44,620,000,000,000, who exactly does it owe it to? martians?

Don't be so shocked. It's actually not a bad thing. Much of that "debt" is actually investments by foreign nationals, not loans. For example, if an Arab Shiek deposits $100,000,000 in a bank in the UK, that'll count towards the private debt. Same if some foreigner buys US Treasury bonds, or if a foreign company invests in a coal mine.

Holy shit Mexico has a bigger GDP than Russia according to your link. I had no idea Mexico had the 13 largest GDP in the world they are above Russia and slightly below India.

if the whole world owes $44,620,000,000,000, who exactly does it owe it to? martians?

As I speculated earlier, I think it's either the difference between world GDP and the amount of credit issued or the total amount of credit issued by all world financial institutions.

Holy shit Mexico has a bigger GDP than Russia according to your link. I had no idea Mexico had the 13 largest GDP in the world they are above Russia and slightly below India.

Yup. But when you rank them by GDP per capita, it doesn't come out too good. Still better than India, though. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28PPP%29_per_capita

It's even worse when you consider it has shitty wealth distribution.

Yup. But when you rank them by GDP per capita, it doesn't come out too good. Still better than India, though. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28PPP%29_per_capita

It's even worse when you consider it has shitty wealth distribution.

Luxembourg, yay!