NationStates Jolt Archive

so, I was thinking, we are all pretty different around here, and so there are a lot of things that I don't understand about people... so I was thinking (is this coherent yet? how about redundant?)

anyway, I think that in this thread we should all ask about something we are confused about, and then people who do that (or think that) can explain it to us.

all joke questions are reserved for Lunatic Goofballs.

me first!

why do some atheists believe in ghosts? I am confused because, if you are atheist I assume that you don't believe in an afterlife, but then where would the ghosts come from? [if you are an atheist who believes in ghosts, answer my question][or if you have any insight into my question, answer it too]

No clue, but I haven't met any atheists who believe in ghosts.

Why do people in first world countries drink bottled water?

Edit: Disregarding portability and where the tap water is still not safe.

Why do people in first world countries drink bottled water?
I drink bottled water from a spring, I think it tastes better than the tap water where I live, because it doesn't have as many chemicals, like chlorine in it.

I drink bottled water from a spring, I think it tastes better than the tap water where I live, because it doesn't have as many chemicals, like chlorine in it.
But the chemicals presumably do something useful. After all, they cost money to add... meh, I don't know. All water when cold tastes the same to me.

Why do some Christians (Smunkee DEFINITELY not included) feel the need to be so officious about their godliness and force their brand of Christianity onto everyone else around them to the point that they cause non-Christians to fear and hate, and some Christians to lose faith and leave out of disgust?

At my place of work, the water fountains often run brown with rust. Drinking bottled is more palatable, safer, and conveniently portable (taking a sip from a water bottle while teaching, for example).

Well in some countries (spain in particular) it isn't safe to drink the tap water, so people drink bottled water. In countries like the UK, I don't know, I think people believe it's healthier. In my opinion bottled water is a pointless and expensive waste of money when there is an equally healthy and better for the environment alternative coming from the taps.

But the chemicals presumably do something useful. After all, they cost money to add... meh, I don't know. All water when cold tastes the same to me.

the water where I live is very chemically treated, because it comes from a lake where fish poop and people swim. I like the spring water because it doesn't have chemicals in it. I have looked at tap water under my microscope and my spring water under it, and both slides looked about the same, so in my mind (major rationalizing and denial) the spring water is just as clean.

why do some atheists believe in ghosts? I am confused because, if you are atheist I assume that you don't believe in an afterlife, but then where would the ghosts come from? [if you are an atheist who believes in ghosts, answer my question][or if you have any insight into my question, answer it too]

Atheists don't believe in deities. The belief or disbelief in an afterlife is a separate issue. An afterlife could exist without a deity.


Fickle Fatalists

I drink bottled water from a spring, I think it tastes better than the tap water where I live, because it doesn't have as many chemicals, like chlorine in it.

Chlorine is there to kill the bad stuff. It doesn't really do anything bad as the halogens are all irritants and not technically poisons. (Chlorine gas is poisonous, not in the conventional sense of a poison but as it irritates the lungs and causes the victim to drown in their own fluids as the body attempts to remove the chlorine_

Why do some Christians (Smunkee DEFINITELY not included) feel the need to be so officious about their godliness and force their brand of Christianity onto everyone else around them to the point that they cause non-Christians to fear and hate, and some Christians to lose faith and leave out of disgust?

thanks Kat ;) (for the compliment, and the title fixed)

I have relatives that are how you say, and I think that they really think that their brand o' Christianity, is the only viable belief, so in their arrogance they are just trying to save us.

Chlorine is there to kill the bad stuff. It doesn't really do anything bad as the halogens are all irritants and not technically poisons. (Chlorine gas is poisonous, not in the conventional sense of a poison but as it irritates the lungs and causes the victim to drown in their own fluids as the body attempts to remove the chlorine_

but I taste the chlorine, I smell it, it's gross.

besides, where I am from, people outside of the city drink out of wells, that's untreated ground water.

Atheists don't believe in deities. The belief or disbelief in an afterlife is a separate issue. An afterlife could exist without a deity.


Fickle Fatalists

that's interesting, I never considered that, can you expand on that idea?

why do people start threads or argue in real life about who would win a fight between <whoever> and <whoever>? its such a pointless thing.

that's interesting, I never considered that, can you expand on that idea?
I was going to say something along similar lines - atheism is just the belief there are no gods. Many Buddhists believe there is no god, yet believe in reincarnation, which is, in effect, an afterlife.

thanks Kat ;) (for the compliment, and the title fixed)

I have relatives that are how you say, and I think that they really think that their brand o' Christianity, is the only viable belief, so in their arrogance they are just trying to save us.

;) I must admit there are Catholics who act the same way as well.

I drink bottled water from a spring, I think it tastes better than the tap water where I live, because it doesn't have as many chemicals, like chlorine in it.

You are aware that some bottled water is tap water aren't you?

that's interesting, I never considered that, can you expand on that idea?
An example (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theravada)

I think the real question here, that is, the question behind all the other questions, whose answer could solve every other question is this:
Why are you all asking questions? Wouldn't it be so much easier to let other people think for you while you go about mindlessly repetitive tasks?

You are aware that some bottled water is tap water aren't you?

yes, you have to read the bottle. I buy Ozarka water for home and tend to put it into my reusable water bottle when I am out of the house.

Well in some countries (spain in particular) it isn't safe to drink the tap water, ...

Where did you ever get the idea that the tap water in Spain was not safe? My family and I lived there for three years and we never had a problem drinking tap water.

Where did you ever get the idea that the tap water in Spain was not safe? My family and I lived there for three years and we never had a problem drinking tap water. Maybe he equates "Spain" with "Hispanic" and puts Spain on the same level as, say, Uruguay. Wherever that is.

Which leads on to my question: when are Americans going to get decent geography syllabuses? (don't copy ours, really)

i'm an atheist in that i don't believe in god or any sort of ultimate supreme being. i don't necessarily believe in ghosts but i don't want to rule out the possibility that there may be some things that we are simply unable to detect or comprehend with current technology. some people may call that a spiritual realm, i prefer to think of it as physical processes on a level that we can't measure or imagine laws for yet. at the same time i do think the vast majority of 'ghostly' occurrences can be explained psychologically in terms of people's imaginations and reactions to the fear of the unknown.

i'll have a think of a question i might want to ask.

i'm an atheist in that i don't believe in god or any sort of ultimate supreme being. i don't necessarily believe in ghosts but i don't want to rule out the possibility that there may be some things that we are simply unable to detect or comprehend with current technology. some people may call that a spiritual realm, i prefer to think of it as physical processes on a level that we can't measure or imagine laws for yet. at the same time i do think the vast majority of 'ghostly' occurrences can be explained psychologically in terms of people's imaginations and reactions to the fear of the unknown.
if you don't want to "rule them out" because you can't prove them, why rule out God?

if you don't want to "rule them out" because you can't prove them, why rule out God? This is true, you have a good point. It seems to me that deism is the most logical Occamic belief, because to avoid it atheists tend to go into contortions involving "M Theory" and hypothesised infinite universes, which tends to defeat the concept of only believing things you have evidence for.

Why are people so fond of answering rhetorical questions?

if you don't want to "rule them out" because you can't prove them, why rule out God?

because i just can't bring myself to believe in god. it's just too much of a leap for me to go from perhaps believing that there is something beyond the physical or that the physical world is more complex than we are yet able to measure or comprehend or perceive, to believing that there might be some sort of sentient non-physical (or unfathomable physical) being directing or guiding the ways of the world. that sort of belief just goes too far for me to really give it credibility.

edit: when i say "i don't necessarily believe in ghosts" i'm not meaning that i think it's possible that there are the souls of dead things floating about the place. i mean that i think it's possible that what people think are ghosts may not only be explainable by psychology. i don't want to rule out the possibility that there is perhaps more to the physical world than we can normally perceive/measure/comprehend currently.

Why are people so fond of answering rhetorical questions?

because we like the sound of our own opinions, probably.

because we like the sound of our own opinions, probably.

Why don't people hate the sound of their voice and accent as much as I do mine?

huh?

could you restate that in plain english?

Apparently an infinitely complex wizard in the sky is most "Occamic" and that's supposed to be logical... :rolleyes:

This is true, you have a good point. It seems to me that deism is the most logical Occamic belief, because to avoid it atheists tend to go into contortions involving "M Theory" and hypothesised infinite universes, which tends to defeat the concept of only believing things you have evidence for.

huh?

could you restate that in plain english?

This is true, you have a good point. It seems to me that deism is the most logical Occamic belief, because to avoid it atheists tend to go into contortions involving "M Theory" and hypothesised infinite universes, which tends to defeat the concept of only believing things you have evidence for.

that's not quite true. i don't believe in god because i don't want to. it goes too far for me. equally, i don't think infinite universes is something i can believe in either because it is an equally unfathomable proposition. for me there is no belief, i just don't generally concern myself with things i can't conceive of. my concerns are in my everyday life, achieving the things that will allow me to continue on the path i'm treading. it doesn't take belief in anything to do that so i don't bother believing in anything. in an idle moment i may wonder what might explain some things that people take to be spiritual and i usually think it's the case of people seeing patterns in random arrangements. other people will be able to explain probability and the human capacity for finding patterns where there are none much better than me. when something that happens with no apparent cause i don't believe it was something spiritual i generally think "oh, why did that happen; i've no idea, could be a random draught/some kind of phosphorescence/thermal contraction or expansion or material/or whatever", or if i'm feeling a bit paranoid or tired i may let my mind run wild with supernatural explanations and scare myself, but without actually believing that there are supernatural explanations.

in my capacity as an archaeologist, belief plays a small part when i look at an assemblage of artifacts in a context and ponder the various possible interpretations of what it represents. according to the sum of the evidence and my own personal subjectivity i will choose to believe one interpretation over the others while recognising that this is inevitably influenced by preconceived ideas i already have. if i apply this to a belief in the supernatural - there is no evidence, my own preconceived ideas value some evidence over faith, therefore i don't believe in the supernatural on any level. that doesn't mean i would then rule out the possibility of other rational explainations that have yet to be formulated.

Why don't people hate the sound of their voice and accent as much as I do mine?

well, i don't know how much you hate the sound of your own voice and accent, so i couldn't tell you. i can tell you that i hate the sound of my own voice and accent a fair bit, but sometimes the respect i have for my own opinions over-rules my dislike of the sounds i make enough that i will vocalise them. the great thing about an internet forum is i don't have to worry about the sound of my voice so i am relatively free from self-restraint to project my opinions. the only things holding me back in this medium is concern that someone may pick me up on my use of language or that perhaps my opinions are not so great after all. these, however, are lesser concerns for me because there is not much in the way of consequences if someone disapproves of my use of languageor my opinions - i can simply ignore them.

Apparently an infinitely complex wizard in the sky is most "Occamic" and that's supposed to be logical... :rolleyes:

i got that much. kinda. what i really didnt understand is why as an atheist i must fall into belief in something called "m-theory" and multiple universes to avoid deism.

unless he is linking that only to atheists who believe in ghosts which is something i dont understand so i wait for such a person to come forward and post their justification.

Why do some Christians (Smunkee DEFINITELY not included) feel the need to be so officious about their godliness and force their brand of Christianity onto everyone else around them to the point that they cause non-Christians to fear and hate, and some Christians to lose faith and leave out of disgust?

The origins of hate are always the same - fear, jealousy and ignorance (usually the cause of the fear and jealousy). Many Christians use a preconventional view of morality (thansk for bringing that up, Smunk) and as such they believe the motivation for good behavior is self-defense. That's why they need the spectre of hell to motivate them. The problem of fear-motivated morality is that it leads to jealousy of those who are not afraid to "misbehave".

I agree with you. I attribute the behavior to the spread of atheism. Christ wanted us to be lights not whips. A light exposes, enlightens, leads and warms. A whip not only does none of these things but it often causes rebellion, fear and hatred.

And I offer a counter question to people like Smunkee and myself - why are you so against the type of Christian that believes in using law or coersion to force their faith on others?

My answer is openly FEAR. I realize how dangerous such a response is for me, but I can't help. I fear that they'll destroy the message of Christ despite knowing that God says that message will be eternal. I fear that they will succeed and destory religious freedom and create a society of hypocrites and pharisees (I mean full of, not just ripe with). It's absolutely fear and it's something I work on everyday.

the water where I live is very chemically treated, because it comes from a lake where fish poop and people swim. I like the spring water because it doesn't have chemicals in it. I have looked at tap water under my microscope and my spring water under it, and both slides looked about the same, so in my mind (major rationalizing and denial) the spring water is just as clean.

Ah... this really is my area of expertise. :)

Looking at it under a microscope probably won't tell you anything useful, unless you have insanely powerful magnification. The sort of things that would make a big difference would be fecal coliforms (curiously, fish poop is going to be surprisingly safe on this one - because they are cold-blooded), cryptosporidium and giardia cysts... none of which are going to be noticable at any realistic magnification.

There are other hazards, like typhus, but even minimal water treatment should be more than enough to deal with this.

It isn't true that bottled water has no chemicals - often it is more contaminated than plant treated water, because the water regulations are stricter for water treatment for water systems than they are for bottling plants.

Also - while a spring might sound like it would be a fairly healthy place, there are various types of intrusion and seepage that can take place... you might end up with tiny quantities of gasoline in your water, for example, if the spring is under or near a road.

I notice later you say you can 'taste' the chlorine in your tap water. As counter-intuitive as this seems - it means you are not getting enough chlorine. Maybe you are on the end of a line, or your water supplier doesn't have a proper flushing program. What you are smelling/tasting is actually chloramines - byproducts of chlorine in the pipes reacting with organic materials. You could try calling your municipality (or whatever) and tell them you want to test the chlorine residual at your faucet.

Chlorine in water is good. It stops bad stuff growing in your pipes and in you. And it is just about the only disinfection process that leaves a realistic residual, which is important if you want the disinfection to be able to continue all the way to the tap. Bottled water doesn't have to have a residual disinfection - but that doesn't mean it is cleaner.

Some people (like my friend's German mother) drink bottled spring water because tap water has estrogen from birth control pills in it. This is a big problem in some Scandinavian countries, where there has been a decline in male fertility (which is beleived to be a result of the Estrogen).
here is a related article (the real articles are all in other languages, mainly German):
http://www.thenhf.com/articles_54.htm

Why don't people hate the sound of their voice and accent as much as I do mine?

do you hate your voice as you hear it when you speak or as you hear it recorded? has anyone told you that you have an unpleasant voice?

your voice speaking english is very nice. remembering from the "how do you pronounce nougat?" thread.

Ah... this really is my area of expertise. :)

Looking at it under a microscope probably won't tell you anything useful, unless you have insanely powerful magnification. The sort of things that would make a big difference would be fecal coliforms (curiously, fish poop is going to be surprisingly safe on this one - because they are cold-blooded), cryptosporidium and giardia cysts... none of which are going to be noticable at any realistic magnification.

There are other hazards, like typhus, but even minimal water treatment should be more than enough to deal with this.

It isn't true that bottled water has no chemicals - often it is more contaminated than plant treated water, because the water regulations are stricter for water treatment for water systems than they are for bottling plants.

Also - while a spring might sound like it would be a fairly healthy place, there are various types of intrusion and seepage that can take place... you might end up with tiny quantities of gasoline in your water, for example, if the spring is under or near a road.

I notice later you say you can 'taste' the chlorine in your tap water. As counter-intuitive as this seems - it means you are not getting enough chlorine. Maybe you are on the end of a line, or your water supplier doesn't have a proper flushing program. What you are smelling/tasting is actually chloramines - byproducts of chlorine in the pipes reacting with organic materials. You could try calling your municipality (or whatever) and tell them you want to test the chlorine residual at your faucet.

Chlorine in water is good. It stops bad stuff growing in your pipes and in you. And it is just about the only disinfection process that leaves a realistic residual, which is important if you want the disinfection to be able to continue all the way to the tap. Bottled water doesn't have to have a residual disinfection - but that doesn't mean it is cleaner.

are you a hydrologist?

Why do some Christians (Smunkee DEFINITELY not included) feel the need to be so officious about their godliness and force their brand of Christianity onto everyone else around them to the point that they cause non-Christians to fear and hate

Even though it may come across as that (Just like when I first was around you I thought you were a complete asshole:eek: ) you have to look deeper at what the person is trying to do. Even though this is wrong (as a Christian) these people think that they MUST convert or they will BURN in HELL. Although all they are trying to do is spread the gospel, they butcher it and end up trying to force it.

and some Christians to lose faith and leave out of disgust?

Ummm well because they dont want the commitment to a God who disallows many things SOME people couldnt live without- ex... Sex outside of marriage. I hate to say it but the Christian faith is better off without these people anyways. They would be "lukewarm Christians" who irks God over the non beleivers.

DCD...how long will you keep the Christian bashing up? (Its getting old)
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=518372

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=518371

are you a hydrologist?

Chemist through college and university, and now I work in water treatment.

Some people (like my friend's German mother) drink bottled spring water because tap water has estrogen from birth control pills in it. This is a big problem in some Scandinavian countries, where there has been a decline in male fertility (which is beleived to be a result of the Estrogen).
here is a related article (the real articles are all in other languages, mainly German):
http://www.thenhf.com/articles_54.htm

im not going to start worrying about parts per trillion of pharmaceuticals. id like the govt to keep an eye on it for sure but at those levels its not going to do anything. you get more estrogen from foods.

Even though it may come across as that (Just like when I first was around you I thought you were a complete asshole:eek: ) you have to look deeper at what the person is trying to do. Even though this is wrong (as a Christian) these people think that they MUST convert or they will BURN in HELL. Although all they are trying to do is spread the gospel, they butcher it and end up trying to force it.

Ummm well because they dont want the commitment to a God who disallows many things SOME people couldnt live without- ex... Sex outside of marriage. I hate to say it but the Christian faith is better off without these people anyways. They would be "lukewarm Christians" who irks God over the non beleivers.

"Better off". Wow. You actually kind of cheer the fact that people lose their faith. I'm not sure that's supposed to be the point.

If you're going to lament something, lament those that are chasing potential Christians away by teaching through action that Christians are hateful. These are the kinds of individuals that Kat is asking about.

im not going to start worrying about parts per trillion of pharmaceuticals. id like the govt to keep an eye on it for sure but at those levels its not going to do anything. you get more estrogen from foods.

Indeed... and if you are having a sexual relationship with someone who uses hormonal birthcontrol... you are probably getting more 'contamination' directly from them, than you are from your water.

im not going to start worrying about parts per trillion of pharmaceuticals. id like the govt to keep an eye on it for sure but at those levels its not going to do anything. you get more estrogen from foods.
I tried to make it clear that it's not much of a problem in the US, the UK, or Australia, but mainly in Scandinavian countries. Sorry.
Indeed... and if you are having a sexual relationship with someone who uses hormonal birthcontrol... you are probably getting more 'contamination' directly from them, than you are from your water.
You have to ingest to chemicals. You can't get them by absorbing them with your penis.

Where's FEMALE? I've seen as people's locations quite a bit here, and other forums too.

You have to ingest to chemicals. You can't get them by absorbing them with your penis.

First - not even vaguely true.

Second - believe it or not, not all sexual contact involves a penis.

Chemist through college and university, and now I work in water treatment.

ahhh ok

i keep trying to convince my son to dump computer science and go into hydrology. he's not interested but i havent given up hope.

DCD...how long will you keep the Christian bashing up? (Its getting old)
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=518372

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=518371

People on NSG have been bashing Christianinty for a long time. Before I arived, proberbly as soon as it came on line.

They do bash other religions. The only reason Christianity is the most bashed is because most people who post here are from 'Christian' countries. Most of the Christians who are bashed tend to be right wing nut cases who proberbly deviate from the teachings of Christ so much that the barely qualify as Christians.

Chemist through college and university, and now I work in water treatment.
Ooh...Expert! So it's true you guys currently can't filter out hormones, or is that something else I have been misled about?

believe it or not, not all sexual contact involves a penis.
Thanks. You know, I never could have guessed that! You, sir/madam, have enriched and enlightened my entire existance. I cannot even begin to express how deeply my gratitude towards you flows. ::Runs off to practice tantric sex::

why do some atheists believe in ghosts? I am confused because, if you are atheist I assume that you don't believe in an afterlife, but then where would the ghosts come from? [if you are an atheist who believes in ghosts, answer my question][or if you have any insight into my question, answer it too]

Atheism is simply and only not believing in gods. We tend to be quite skeptical about other "paranormal" things as well, and will search for logical explanations that do not require breaking known laws of physics.

I've seen what is best described as a ghost myself (a soldier who was killed on 12/7/41 at the Kole Kole Pass in Hawaii) and have for years wondered what exactly happened there. Did the enormity of the event "impress" some sort of image on the area? Was my mind paying tricks on me? Or did I actually see a manifestation of a dead person?

I don't know, and until science can prove something about ghosts, I'll just have to keep wondering.

I was going to say something along similar lines - atheism is just the belief there are no gods. Many Buddhists believe there is no god, yet believe in reincarnation, which is, in effect, an afterlife.

I understand that, but reincarnation/afterlife seems to be based on just as much proof as the existence of a deity is based on, which is to say none. I think atheists who actively believe in an afterlife are full of shit. They don't have the courage of their other convictions.

Where's FEMALE? I've seen as people's locations quite a bit here, and other forums too.

you make me want to post a video clip from dogma where salma hayek says that what makes a woman is not on her chest but what is between her legs.

"What traditionally defines a woman falls between two things: her legs."

its the easiest way to remind everyone that female type people exist on this forum.

why do some atheists believe in ghosts? I am confused because, if you are atheist I assume that you don't believe in an afterlife, but then where would the ghosts come from? [if you are an atheist who believes in ghosts, answer my question][or if you have any insight into my question, answer it too]

atheist
–noun
a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.

This doesn't preclude you from believing in the spiritual or paranormal. It merely means that you don't believe in god(s).

"Better off". Wow. You actually kind of cheer the fact that people lose their faith. I'm not sure that's supposed to be the point.

If you're going to lament something, lament those that are chasing potential Christians away by teaching through action that Christians are hateful. These are the kinds of individuals that Kat is asking about.
By "Better off" I mean the people who loudly proclaim their Christianity
but then (repeatedly) go off and get drunk lound curse hit the strip club etc etc.

Revelation 3:16
16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will
spue thee out of my mouth.

Therefore, just as many people find lukewarm beverages the least
appealing of all temperatures, God finds lukewarm believers the most
disgusting kind of believer.

These kind of people may be discouraging to people young in the faith. These poeple might look at a lukewarm person and say "Thats how a Christian acts?"
"I dont want to be a Christian anymore"

Unfortunately I think that there are more lukewarm Christians than "hot' (not sexy hot :p ) Christians.

Ooh...Expert! So it's true you guys currently can't filter out hormones, or is that something else I have been misled about?

Filtering would be misleading. Most water treatment does involve filtering, but it is generally for removing larger contaminants, like particulate matter.

Some of the ultra-fine membrane technologies might be effective against 'smaller' contaminants - and there is cutting edge science involving membranes made of carbon nanotubes that might be able to 'filter' molecular contaminants.

Most things like estrogen, will be removed through chemical addition - chlorine. chlorine dioxide, chloramines, or ozone. Or use of UV radiation. Either the contaminant is 'broken' through the addition of one of these chemicals, or it is bound up by coagulating chemicals that cause it to 'drop' out during the pre-filtering process.

Of course - since pharmaceutical wastes tend to end up in 'waste water' (which has it's own treatment process), and very few places allow close linkage between waste water process effluent and drinking water treatment influent... the risks of pharmaceutical contamination of (post-treatment) drinking water are pretty much negligible.

Thanks. You know, I never could have guessed that! You, sir/madam, have enriched and enlightened my entire existance. I cannot even begin to express how deeply my gratitude towards you flows. ::Runs off to practice tantric sex::

Well, the first process in much sexual interaction... is just kissing. Exchange of saliva isn't an especially effective way to transmit chemicals... but when you compare the concentration of estrogen in her body, to the possible contamination in terms of literally millions of gallons of treated water...

you make me want to post a video clip from dogma where salma hayek says that what makes a woman is not on her chest but what is between her legs.

"What traditionally defines a woman falls between two things: her legs."

its the easiest way to remind everyone that female type people exist on this forum.

Lies and misdirection. Clearly this is some form of conspiracy. Some form of femi...damn.

atheist
–noun
a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.

This doesn't preclude you from believing in the spiritual or paranormal. It merely means that you don't believe in god(s).

yes but i believe the fuller question is

what thought process leads to deny the possibility of the existence of god(s) but yet allows you to affirm the possibility of ghosts?

if its possible that we have a greater existence than our physical bodies and that some of that essence is left over after we die, and that that essence should be able to manifest itself in this world, why cant there also be a greater being or beings that also exist and affect this world?

Well, the first process in much sexual interaction... is just kissing. Exchange of saliva isn't an especially effective way to transmit chemicals... but when you compare the concentration of estrogen in her body, to the possible contamination in terms of literally millions of gallons of treated water...

did you look at the link he posted? what would account for trace amounts of pharmaceuticals in drinking water?

yes but i believe the fuller question is

what thought process leads to deny the possibility of the existence of god(s) but yet allows you to affirm the possibility of ghosts?

if its possible that we have a greater existence than our physical bodies and that some of that essence is left over after we die, and that that essence should be able to manifest itself in this world, why cant there also be a greater being or beings that also exist and affect this world?

Well, speaking purely from personal experience, I believe in ghosts and am an atheist. That does not, however mean that I don't believe in the existence of the spiritual side of things, merely that I don't believe there to be a supreme directive power to the universe. I guess I could be best described as a Pantheist, except that I don't believe that god is in everything, but rather that everything is connected on some deep level. In which case the possibility of there being remnants of past lives on the earth becomes a possibility, as despite there not being a god, the interconnected nature of everything means that you don't really "fade away" when you die.

I hope that makes sense in some way, I always find my personal beliefs very hard to accurately describe.

Edit: Then again, I guess I might be better described as an agnostic.

that's interesting, I never considered that, can you expand on that idea?

On one hand I believe that it's impossible to know if there is an afterlife.

On the other hand, I believe there is one, and it's just a place outside our universe where the dead just hang out.

I understand that, but reincarnation/afterlife seems to be based on just as much proof as the existence of a deity is based on, which is to say none. I think atheists who actively believe in an afterlife are full of shit. They don't have the courage of their other convictions.

i don't think it's really fair to say if you believe in one thing then you must believe in everything. do you think, therefore, that christians and muslims and whatever must also believe in fairies at the bottom of the garden, or that stuffed animals come to life after they've gone to sleep. people can believe what they want - faith is not to be reasoned with because it simply does not involve reason.

Lies and misdirection. Clearly this is some form of conspiracy. Some form of femi...damn.

and you thought ghosts were unlikely.

there are more thing in heaven and earth, horatio...

yes but i believe the fuller question is

what thought process leads to deny the possibility of the existence of god(s) but yet allows you to affirm the possibility of ghosts?

if its possible that we have a greater existence than our physical bodies and that some of that essence is left over after we die, and that that essence should be able to manifest itself in this world, why cant there also be a greater being or beings that also exist and affect this world?

A basic answer for that would be that we KNOW people exist, and are 'animated' in some fashion. To believe that that 'animation' might somehow continue beyond the extent of the flesh, is still less of a reach than to jump to an entirely different classification of entity.

By "Better off" I mean the people who loudly proclaim their Christianity
but then (repeatedly) go off and get drunk lound curse hit the strip club etc etc.

Revelation 3:16
16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will
spue thee out of my mouth.

Therefore, just as many people find lukewarm beverages the least
appealing of all temperatures, God finds lukewarm believers the most
disgusting kind of believer.

These kind of people may be discouraging to people young in the faith. These poeple might look at a lukewarm person and say "Thats how a Christian acts?"
"I dont want to be a Christian anymore"

Unfortunately I think that there are more lukewarm Christians than "hot' (not sexy hot :p ) Christians.

I know exactly what you meant and it's sad. "Yay, people lost their faith". I can't see considering such a thing to be a happen circumstance, but, hey, to each his own.

I think you might do well to worry about that plank before you start judging whether or not other Christians should be Christians or about whether God is happy with them, lest someone start hoping that the people who loudly proclaim their Christianity while judging others and finding joy in the loss.

did you look at the link he posted? what would account for trace amounts of pharmaceuticals in drinking water?

Yes - I read the link. The link talks about how some contamination might be happening where waste water effluents are close to drinking water influents. It also said that the concentrations were parts per trillion.

I might point out - there are other reasons chemicals can get into a water supply... not least being main leakages. Although water systems are designed to maintain 'positive' pressure at breaks, there could be small amounts of ingress. Hence the residual chlorine being so important.

I'm not saying there is no chance there would be pharmaceutical contamination. I'm saying it is so low a risk as to be negligible, which is a very different thing. Given the low probability of ingress, and the tiny levels of possible contamination... worrying about estrogen in drinking water is kind of like someone who eats white bread refusing to drink chlorinated water.

A basic answer for that would be that we KNOW people exist, and are 'animated' in some fashion. To believe that that 'animation' might somehow continue beyond the extent of the flesh, is still less of a reach than to jump to an entirely different classification of entity.

id be happier with that answer if it included some need for proof.

im sort of OK with Eodwaurd's statement that he believes in ghosts because he saw one and can find no other satisfactory explanation. im not comfortable with dismissing his testimony as delusion or lie so i accept what he says. it doesnt convince me but im fine with it convincing him.

however to say that a something of a person might continue after death but have no proof for it and no requirement that it be proven to one's satisfaction leaves me cold. doesnt that put you in the same category as the person who accepts the existence of god without proof?

Yes - I read the link. The link talks about how some contamination might be happening where waste water effluents are close to drinking water influents. It also said that the concentrations were parts per trillion.

I might point out - there are other reasons chemicals can get into a water supply... not least being main leakages. Although water systems are designed to maintain 'positive' pressure at breaks, there could be small amounts of ingress. Hence the residual chlorine being so important.

I'm not saying there is no chance there would be pharmaceutical contamination. I'm saying it is so low a risk as to be negligible, which is a very different thing. Given the low probability of ingress, and the tiny levels of possible contamination... worrying about estrogen in drinking water is kind of like someone who eats white bread refusing to drink chlorinated water.


i think ive been living in the desert too long. i didnt think about water coming from reservoirs that can be contaminated in various ways.

duh.

No clue, but I haven't met any atheists who believe in ghosts.

Why do people in first world countries drink bottled water?

Edit: Disregarding portability and where the tap water is still not safe.... I don't... I love my water from the tap. :p

Why do some Christians (Smunkee DEFINITELY not included) feel the need to be so officious about their godliness and force their brand of Christianity onto everyone else around them to the point that they cause non-Christians to fear and hate, and some Christians to lose faith and leave out of disgust?
I hope I'm not one of those.



My question... how many of you actually try to seriously see things from the opposing viewpoints? say... pro Same Sex marrage; Do you actually try to understand the viewpoints of those against it and vice versa?

My question... how many of you actually try to seriously see things from the opposing viewpoints? say... pro Same Sex marrage; Do you actually try to understand the viewpoints of those against it and vice versa?
I try, simply because I believe you can't really understand your own position without understanding the multiple opposing positions. Of course, when the opposition is based on bigotry, like the opposition to same sex marriage for instance, then understanding it is easy.

id be happier with that answer if it included some need for proof.

im sort of OK with Eodwaurd's statement that he believes in ghosts because he saw one and can find no other satisfactory explanation. im not comfortable with dismissing his testimony as delusion or lie so i accept what he says. it doesnt convince me but im fine with it convincing him.

however to say that a something of a person might continue after death but have no proof for it and no requirement that it be proven to one's satisfaction leaves me cold. doesnt that put you in the same category as the person who accepts the existence of god without proof?

I don't know - personally, I find the idea of ghosts about equally questionable as the idea of gods.

But, the fact exists - we do know that we mortal beings are 'alive' at some point. An afterlife is an extrapolation of that, while the idea of a 'god' requires a new concept. Do I think that being alive is a good reason to believe there might be ghosts? Not really, no. But it is easier to jump to that, than to an entire paradigm shift.

My question... how many of you actually try to seriously see things from the opposing viewpoints? say... pro Same Sex marrage; Do you actually try to understand the viewpoints of those against it and vice versa?

how can i argue against someone if i dont understand where he is coming from and the point he is trying to make? of course i try to understand all viewpoints, it help me clarify my own.

Why do some Christians (Smunkee DEFINITELY not included) feel the need to be so officious about their godliness and force their brand of Christianity onto everyone else around them to the point that they cause non-Christians to fear and hate, and some Christians to lose faith and leave out of disgust?

Simple ignorance, and possibly lack of ability to reason, if you ask me.

I don't know - personally, I find the idea of ghosts about equally questionable as the idea of gods.

But, the fact exists - we do know that we mortal beings are 'alive' at some point. An afterlife is an extrapolation of that, while the idea of a 'god' requires a new concept. Do I think that being alive is a good reason to believe there might be ghosts? Not really, no. But it is easier to jump to that, than to an entire paradigm shift.

i see what you mean but such reasoning should lead to a proof that ghosts do really exist. that it doesnt causes me to toss it on the same scrap heap as the rest of supernatural beliefs.

the lack of convincing proof of ghosts sets me against believing in them more than the lack of convincing proof of gods makes me atheist.

proving ghosts exist should be much easier.

My question... how many of you actually try to seriously see things from the opposing viewpoints? say... pro Same Sex marrage; Do you actually try to understand the viewpoints of those against it and vice versa?

I honestly try, but often find it difficult.:(

its the easiest way to remind everyone that female type people exist on this forum.What choo talkin about? there are no girls on teh intarweb.

I try, simply because I believe you can't really understand your own position without understanding the multiple opposing positions. Of course, when the opposition is based on bigotry, like the opposition to same sex marriage for instance, then understanding it is easy.
but do you automatically assume Bigotry or do you try other "reasons" like Fear of the different (not the same as bigotry), ignorance, or perhaps some negative experience before settling on Bigotry.

(oh and this is not for things reported in articles but when interacting with forum-mates.)

how can i argue against someone if i dont understand where he is coming from and the point he is trying to make? of course i try to understand all viewpoints, it help me clarify my own.
me, I do it by listening/reading what the other person posts and from that and asking questions, try to piece together their reasoning and try to gain an understanding of what they are trying to convey.

me, I do it by listening/reading what the other person posts and from that and asking questions, try to piece together their reasoning and try to gain an understanding of what they are trying to convey.

i do sometimes jump to conclusions based on how someone starts out a post and then find myself in the middle of a well reasoned but completely wrong response to it. i try to find those before i hit submit.

My question... how many of you actually try to seriously see things from the opposing viewpoints? say... pro Same Sex marrage; Do you actually try to understand the viewpoints of those against it and vice versa?
I really do, and I end up asking a lot of questions, but people seem to think that answering them will help me prove my point, so they don't answer. I am really (most of the time) asking questions to clarify their position.

i see what you mean but such reasoning should lead to a proof that ghosts do really exist. that it doesnt causes me to toss it on the same scrap heap as the rest of supernatural beliefs.

the lack of convincing proof of ghosts sets me against believing in them more than the lack of convincing proof of gods makes me atheist.

proving ghosts exist should be much easier.

I'm not arguing. I arrive at much the same conclusions.

Ah... this really is my area of expertise. :)

Looking at it under a microscope probably won't tell you anything useful, unless you have insanely powerful magnification. The sort of things that would make a big difference would be fecal coliforms (curiously, fish poop is going to be surprisingly safe on this one - because they are cold-blooded), cryptosporidium and giardia cysts... none of which are going to be noticable at any realistic magnification.

There are other hazards, like typhus, but even minimal water treatment should be more than enough to deal with this.

It isn't true that bottled water has no chemicals - often it is more contaminated than plant treated water, because the water regulations are stricter for water treatment for water systems than they are for bottling plants.

Also - while a spring might sound like it would be a fairly healthy place, there are various types of intrusion and seepage that can take place... you might end up with tiny quantities of gasoline in your water, for example, if the spring is under or near a road.

I notice later you say you can 'taste' the chlorine in your tap water. As counter-intuitive as this seems - it means you are not getting enough chlorine. Maybe you are on the end of a line, or your water supplier doesn't have a proper flushing program. What you are smelling/tasting is actually chloramines - byproducts of chlorine in the pipes reacting with organic materials. You could try calling your municipality (or whatever) and tell them you want to test the chlorine residual at your faucet.

Chlorine in water is good. It stops bad stuff growing in your pipes and in you. And it is just about the only disinfection process that leaves a realistic residual, which is important if you want the disinfection to be able to continue all the way to the tap. Bottled water doesn't have to have a residual disinfection - but that doesn't mean it is cleaner.
that's really gross.

didn't you see where I said that I was in denial?

is spring water going to kill me? probably not.

is not drinking water going to kill me? probably.

do I like to drink my tap water? def. not.

I do have a question.... if I get one of those faucet filters, is that going to help the taste of my water (I mean would it filter out that residual stuff?)

also, is spring water probably safer than well water or about the same or what? (my land has a well, so I am just asking before we get the house built and I get out there and don't know what to drink)

By "Better off" I mean the people who loudly proclaim their Christianity
but then (repeatedly) go off and get drunk lound curse hit the strip club etc etc.

Revelation 3:16
16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will
spue thee out of my mouth.

Therefore, just as many people find lukewarm beverages the least
appealing of all temperatures, God finds lukewarm believers the most
disgusting kind of believer.

These kind of people may be discouraging to people young in the faith. These poeple might look at a lukewarm person and say "Thats how a Christian acts?"
"I dont want to be a Christian anymore"

Unfortunately I think that there are more lukewarm Christians than "hot' (not sexy hot :p ) Christians.

Well, for me it was the other way around. I grew up with people you'd probably call "lukewarm", and I liked them and could accept their idea of faith.
Then I came here and found "hot" Christians... and decided I don't ever want anything to do with spiteful, arrogant, ignorant, socially inept and ridiculous people like them. I took a closer look at the bible and found that, yes, that seems to be what is called for in order to be Christian.
So now I'm agnostic.

Well, for me it was the other way around. I grew up with people you'd probably call "lukewarm", and I liked them and could accept their idea of faith.
Then I came here and found "hot" Christians... and decided I don't ever want anything to do with spiteful, arrogant, ignorant, socially inept and ridiculous people like them. I took a closer look at the bible and found that, yes, that seems to be what is called for in order to be Christian.
So now I'm agnostic.

I had a preacher once who said that the lukewarm Christians were the ones who didn't do anything to further the message of Christ. That back in that culture they had hot baths for healing, and cool baths for cleansing, and so you either wanted to be hot or cold, and that the lukewarm Christian is useless.

I don't think the Bible means you should be angry or arrogant, or hateful, in fact Jesus probably wouldn't like to be represented like that, since he didn't like the angry, arrogant, and hateful people of His day.

that's really gross.

didn't you see where I said that I was in denial?

is spring water going to kill me? probably not.

is not drinking water going to kill me? probably.

do I like to drink my tap water? def. not.

I do have a question.... if I get one of those faucet filters, is that going to help the taste of my water (I mean would it filter out that residual stuff?)

also, is spring water probably safer than well water or about the same or what? (my land has a well, so I am just asking before we get the house built and I get out there and don't know what to drink)

I hate faucet filters. Yes - it will probably make your water taste better, and so will those little jugs you pour the water in with the little exchangable filters...

What annoys me about them, is that they sell them as 'water purifiers', and they are most certainly not 'purifying' anything. But, anything that adsorbs chloramines (yes - adsorb, not absorb... that's another thing they say that isn't true: things like activated carbon filters actually 'adsorb' contaminants - the stuff sticks to the surface, it isn't internalised) will reduce/remove the taste.

I personally get my water from a well. There are no major contamination risks near here, no high levels of radiation or anything. So - I'm not too worried that my well is being intruded upon. If you looked at a radius of, say, a mile around your house, and didn't find any major contamination risks, your well should be fine. (A major contamination risk might be something like a gas station, where you can expect fairly regular organic chemical spills to be washed into the ground).

In most cases, I'd probably trust my well water over bottled waters. The 'filtration' process for my well water has been thousands of years of slow filtering, while spring water is an unknown quantity... I don't know where most commercial springs are, or how much damage their commercial activities have done to their local water tables. Think about that - if you 'empty' a spring, it will refill much more quickly by 'sucking' the water in from around it...

But, if you are unsure - there should be a water lab somewhere near you that should be able to test your water supply.

I had a preacher once who said that the lukewarm Christians were the ones who didn't do anything to further the message of Christ. That back in that culture they had hot baths for healing, and cool baths for cleansing, and so you either wanted to be hot or cold, and that the lukewarm Christian is useless.
Wait - how does the healing/cleansing bath analogy relate to faith in christianity?

Wait - how does the healing/cleansing bath analogy relate to faith in christianity?

I don't remember, I fell asleep in church.

http://bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Topical.show/RTD/cgg/ID/247/Lukewarm.htm

this sounds like it though.....what I remember.

Wait - how does the healing/cleansing bath analogy relate to faith in christianity?

It probably comes down to the constant allegorical use of water as spirit, that permeates the Hebrew and Greek scriptures.

Baptism in water is a mirror for the 'real' baptism in the spirit. 'Drinking' from Jesus' well is drinking from the holy spirit. The healing and cleansing baths are healing and cleansing ministry.

Something like that... maybe. :)

Wait - how does the healing/cleansing bath analogy relate to faith in christianity?

Probably to ease the transition from Paganism to Christianity in Rome.

Why the fuck do people only remember alien abductions after they've been hypnotized?

I had a preacher once who said that the lukewarm Christians were the ones who didn't do anything to further the message of Christ. That back in that culture they had hot baths for healing, and cool baths for cleansing, and so you either wanted to be hot or cold, and that the lukewarm Christian is useless.

I don't think the Bible means you should be angry or arrogant, or hateful, in fact Jesus probably wouldn't like to be represented like that, since he didn't like the angry, arrogant, and hateful people of His day.

Possibly. But I found that the bible is not exclusively about Jesus. In fact, his stories and teachings make only for a very small section in comparison. The rest is reserved for people like Paul, who raged against homosexuals and barred women from speaking in church....

Why the fuck do people only remember alien abductions after they've been hypnotized?

not just alien abductions, but parental abuse, sexual assault, and even where they left their underwear last Christmas.

not just alien abductions, but parental abuse, sexual assault, and even where they left their underwear last Christmas.

Oh, and several hundred remember that they were Napoleon or Cleopatra in a previous life... ;)

Possibly. But I found that the bible is not exclusively about Jesus. In fact, his stories and teachings make only for a very small section in comparison. The rest is reserved for people like Paul, who raged against homosexuals and barred women from speaking in church....

ah, but being a Christian, I follow Christ's teachings.

;)

I don't know what to tell you about the hateful people, other than they come from all walks of life.

not just alien abductions, but parental abuse, sexual assault, and even where they left their underwear last Christmas.

Some people remember sexual abuse that never happened if their hypnotheripist doesnt know what he or she is doing.

Probably to ease the transition from Paganism to Christianity in Rome.

Why the fuck do people only remember alien abductions after they've been hypnotized?

false memory syndrome?

i think the official believers explanation is that the aliens do something to make you forget. you can only recover the memories through the expert guidance of a hypnotist.

ah, but being a Christian, I follow Christ's teachings.

;)

I don't know what to tell you about the hateful people, other than they come from all walks of life.

Oh, I know they do. And I try to distance myself from them wherever possible. ;)

Does that then mean that you don't believe in all that's in the bible? I was told that in order to qualify as Christian, you have to. Or at least to everything said in the New testament.

but do you automatically assume Bigotry or do you try other "reasons" like Fear of the different (not the same as bigotry), ignorance, or perhaps some negative experience before settling on Bigotry.

(oh and this is not for things reported in articles but when interacting with forum-mates.)

I never automatically assume anything on an issue. I do make assumptions about other posters at times, even though I shouldn't, but never on an issue. I'm well aware that I may not have--almost certainly didn't, as a matter of fact--consider all potential sides of an issue when I've first come to it, so I wait to hear arguments before I conclude anything. That may not always come across here, but that's because on most issues, I've heard the arguments that posters are putting forth here elsewhere and found those arguments wanting.

But you may have noticed that on occasion I'll begin threads on questions I haven't come up with a position on yet--that's because I'm interested in a topic where I haven't been exposed to a number of viewpoints yet and I want to explore what others think about it. NSG can be a good sounding board at times, if you're willing to listen.

I wanna ask a question but I can't think of one :(

Do christians have a least favourite part of the bible?

here's a question i have,in all seriousness, why do people like to hurt other people so much?

I wanna ask a question but I can't think of one :(

Do christians have a least favourite part of the bible?

Depending on how homophobic the christian is, Mark 14:51-52. ;)

Either : 1. Aliens wiped their minds with evil-but-imperfect mind wiping devices that given enough stimulation give recall of the events that happened.
Or: 2. The people were not abducted, they were merely really drunk and therefore, owing to the occasional amnesiac and mind altering nature of alcohol, under hypnosis people will remember the hallucinations that occured in this period.

here's a question i have,in all seriousness, why do people like to hurt other people so much?

sometimes its inadvertent--oops you were in the way

sometimes its payback--revenge is sweet

sometimes its to get what you want--too bad you were in the way.

sometimes its just to make yourself feel justified and stronger--im the meanass bitch who does as she pleases.

Why don't people hate the sound of their voice and accent as much as I do mine?

Because we're not you? :D

I never automatically assume anything on an issue. I do make assumptions about other posters at times, even though I shouldn't, but never on an issue. I'm well aware that I may not have--almost certainly didn't, as a matter of fact--consider all potential sides of an issue when I've first come to it, so I wait to hear arguments before I conclude anything. That may not always come across here, but that's because on most issues, I've heard the arguments that posters are putting forth here elsewhere and found those arguments wanting.

But you may have noticed that on occasion I'll begin threads on questions I haven't come up with a position on yet--that's because I'm interested in a topic where I haven't been exposed to a number of viewpoints yet and I want to explore what others think about it. NSG can be a good sounding board at times, if you're willing to listen.
Good to know. ;)

here's a question i have,in all seriousness, why do people like to hurt other people so much?

power.

Even though it may come across as that (Just like when I first was around you I thought you were a complete asshole:eek: ) you have to look deeper at what the person is trying to do. Even though this is wrong (as a Christian) these people think that they MUST convert or they will BURN in HELL. Although all they are trying to do is spread the gospel, they butcher it and end up trying to force it.

Ummm well because they dont want the commitment to a God who disallows many things SOME people couldnt live without- ex... Sex outside of marriage. I hate to say it but the Christian faith is better off without these people anyways. They would be "lukewarm Christians" who irks God over the non beleivers.

You've misunderstood me. I meant that the behavior of these "good Christians" disgusts other Christians to the point that the second group of Christians leave the church out of disgust. I didn't ask why some Christians leave the faith -- I asked why some other Christians act in such a way as to inspire loathing for it.

Oh, I know they do. And I try to distance myself from them wherever possible. ;)

Does that then mean that you don't believe in all that's in the bible? I was told that in order to qualify as Christian, you have to. Or at least to everything said in the New testament.

I guess it depends on what you mean "believe"

What choo talkin about? there are no girls on teh intarweb.

*POOF! disappears in a puff of logic*

I guess it depends on what you mean "believe"

Good question. After all, that one book can theoretically be used to justify just about everything and at times does sound a lot like Grimm's Fairy Tales... no insult intended.
I think Jesus had some very good ideas, I just think the rest of the book is slightly odd and many of its followers give it a really bad name.

Oh, I know they do. And I try to distance myself from them wherever possible. ;)

Does that then mean that you don't believe in all that's in the bible? I was told that in order to qualify as Christian, you have to. Or at least to everything said in the New testament.

Funny, I was told that to be a Christian you had to believe in Christ as your savior.

Good question. After all, that one book can theoretically be used to justify just about everything and at times does sound a lot like Grimm's Fairy Tales... no insult intended.
I think Jesus had some very good ideas, I just think the rest of the book is slightly odd and many of its followers give it a really bad name.

Funny, I was told that to be a Christian you had to believe in Christ as your savior.

Kat answered what I was going to say.

I believe that Jesus died for me, and I guess that's enough. I believe other things, but they aren't as important.

Why do atheists try to apply human limitations or logic(in the human sense) to God who has no such limitations and in many ways is outside the scope of logic as way to try to disprove said God?

Because theists keep trying to explain him that way.

Why do atheists try to apply human limitations or logic(in the human sense) to God who has no such limitations and in many ways is outside the scope of logic as way to try to disprove said God?

Is religion an important part of humanity?

Where's FEMALE? I've seen as people's locations quite a bit here, and other forums too.
Nowhere near you!

Oh the wit!

Is religion an important part of humanity?

Thats the wrong kind of question.

Is religion an important part of humanity?

it sure seems to be. dont all cultures have some kind of religion? even neatherthal man buried his dead.

it sure seems to be. dont all cultures have some kind of religion? even neatherthal man buried his dead.
A very pratical endeavor.

Why do atheists try to apply human limitations or logic(in the human sense) to God who has no such limitations and in many ways is outside the scope of logic as way to try to disprove said God?

Because those are the only tools we can comprehend...

Add to that - what can we 'prove' to be true about god? Nothing. So - we have to use our toolkit to work out if someone is trying to tell us something real, or if they have just created a smokescreen excuse 'god is beyond comprehension' to cover for the fact that they place their faith in illusions.

Why do atheists try to apply human limitations or logic(in the human sense) to God who has no such limitations and in many ways is outside the scope of logic as way to try to disprove said God?

A counter-question: why do theists think that the notion that God is beyond logic think that's a reasonable position to defend when involved in is ostensibly a rational debate?

Why do some Christians (Smunkee DEFINITELY not included) feel the need to be so officious about their godliness and force their brand of Christianity onto everyone else around them to the point that they cause non-Christians to fear and hate, and some Christians to lose faith and leave out of disgust?
same thing back at non-christians especially the un-godly and the fence sitters.

I wanna ask a question but I can't think of one :(

Do christians have a least favourite part of the bible?

I don't like leviticus ONLY because it confuses so many people and it's been an excuse for such hatred.

Pity I didn't notice this thread sooner because a lot of things confuse me. And a few of them aren't even jokes! :p

Here's my first question:

Where does Odie's tongue go when he closes his mouth?

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a187/fletchdd/Odie.jpg

:confused:

His left leg is hollow*, it fits in there.
*Notice the size of his tongue to his paws they are almost a perfect match for size.I like that theory.

It probably comes down to the constant allegorical use of water as spirit, that permeates the Hebrew and Greek scriptures.

Baptism in water is a mirror for the 'real' baptism in the spirit. 'Drinking' from Jesus' well is drinking from the holy spirit. The healing and cleansing baths are healing and cleansing ministry.

Something like that... maybe. :)

Yes, it references both being healed and cleansed in the spirit and assisting others to be healed and cleansed in the spirit. Hatred and unkindness has nothing to do with healing of cleansing and to suggest that to avoid being a lukewarm Christian one must be unkind and hateful is bizarre and ignorant.

Pity I didn't notice this thread sooner because a lot of things confuse me. And a few of them aren't even jokes! :p

Here's my first question:

Where does Odie's tongue go when he closes his mouth?

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a187/fletchdd/Odie.jpg

:confused:
His left leg is hollow*, it fits in there.
*Notice the size of his tongue to his paws they are almost a perfect match for size.

Funny, I was told that to be a Christian you had to believe in Christ as your savior.

CHRISTian. Not PAULian. Not BIBLEan. You're exactly right and don't understand why people have so much difficulty with that concept.

same thing back at non-christians especially the un-godly and the fence sitters.

Un-godly?

You're ungodly too. You don't believe in my god. You horrible, horrible bastard.

Seriously, where the hell do you get off calling people "un-godly"?

Un-godly?

You're ungodly too. You don't believe in my god. You horrible, horrible bastard.

Seriously, where the hell do you get off calling people "un-godly"?
Er Atheists FIGJAM.:rolleyes:

I like that theory.
Though his tongue could even fit in hs ears which might explain why he is so stupid, perhaps his tongue cuts of circulation to his brain.
*Notices the time warp has returned*

Er Atheists FIGJAM.:rolleyes:

Still, what the fuck is wrong with you?

Because we're not you? :D

I do oversee that shortcoming in others.

Still, what the fuck is wrong with you?

He has a sense of humour, something some seem to be desperately lacking in and thus define as "wrong".

[CENTER]Who's eating this chicken?

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Red Dwarf! You sure weren't kidding about eluding things.

Who's eating this chicken?

http://www.memorabilia.co.uk/client_images/news/your_host/djj_main.gif

CHRISTian. Not PAULian. Not BIBLEan. You're exactly right and don't understand why people have so much difficulty with that concept.

Gee, maybe it has something to do with the fact that the majority of christians--not to mention the loudest among them--don't make that distinction. When you've got over half a billion christians screeching about how you have to accept the entire bible or you're going to hell and 6 making the distinction that you are, I would guess that most people would have a bit of difficulty with separating the two. :rolleyes:

Gee, maybe it has something to do with the fact that the majority of christians--not to mention the loudest among them--don't make that distinction. When you've got over half a billion christians screeching about how you have to accept the entire bible or you're going to hell and 6 making the distinction that you are, I would guess that most people would have a bit of difficulty with separating the two. :rolleyes:

First, I don't agree with your numbers. Second, I can't answer for other Christians. However, I'll tell that I have only encountered the kind of Christians I see here, in media. I've never met a single person in real life that when I explained my position to them patiently didn't listen and revisit their own in regards to our faith.

I take that back. Once a pastor through me out of his office for asking a genuine question about something Jesus said that I thought didn't agree with his sermon. Now keep in mind I didn't even argue or present it agressively in any way. I walked in and asked him if he could explain how the quote supports his sermon. He asked me to leave.

That was the only person that was ever intolerant toward my views or as dogmatic as people like Ph33r was or Pooty is.

No clue, but I haven't met any atheists who believe in ghosts.

Why do people in first world countries drink bottled water?

Edit: Disregarding portability and where the tap water is still not safe.

I drank bottled water when I lived in Southern California because the water there tastes vile. When I moved to Colorado, I stopped because the water here actually tastes good.

I want to know why so many purportedly intelligent people continue to confuse agnostic with atheist.

I want to know why so many purportedly intelligent people continue to confuse agnostic with atheist.

Because they're idiots?

I want to know why so many purportedly intelligent people continue to confuse agnostic with atheist.

They seem to think that the path to athiesm has agnosticism as a step, which it clearly does for some but not for all. Some people think that agnosticism is merely a degree of athiesm. And some people want you to make a firm decision about something which isn't knowable because they like to not eat their meat but have their pudding.

They seem to think that the path to athiesm has agnosticism as a step, which it clearly does for some but not for all. Some people think that agnosticism is merely a degree of athiesm. And some people want you to make a firm decision about something which isn't knowable because they like to not eat their meat but have their pudding.

I was going to say that, but I just figured "because they're idiots" would suffice. :)

I was going to say something along similar lines - atheism is just the belief there are no gods. Many Buddhists believe there is no god, yet believe in reincarnation, which is, in effect, an afterlife.
Indeed. I was going to cite the beliefs of my girlfriend, and the majority of chinese people worldwide. Most Chiniese are either daoist, or buddhist, or a mixture of both, combined with their traditional superstitions. Anyhow, they have a very avid and sincere belief in spirits, the supernatural, black magic, ghosts, luck, and such. However they do not believe in gods, per se. One may argue the chinese have countless demi-gods, however, I believe this is a mis-translation of what these figures represent (most of them actual historical figures who have since died). Rather, I'd call them well-respected spirits. Furthermore, they have a complex afterlife system, yet no actual gods. It is fascinating.

Anyhow, it would seem that the most populous people on earth match Smunkee's template of atheists who believe in ghosts.

I want to know why so many purportedly intelligent people continue to confuse agnostic with atheist.
Remember the definitions are not universally accepted. I personally subscribe to the less popular, but more intelligent (IMO) definition of agnosticism being an adjective for the manner of faith (or lack thereof). That is to say one can be an agnostic atheist (I do not believe in a god, but I also do not *know* if one exists or not), or an agnostic deist (I believe in a god, but I do not *know* if one exists or not). However, IMO, one cannot be agnostic only.

Why do some Christians (Smunkee DEFINITELY not included) feel the need to be so officious about their godliness and force their brand of Christianity onto everyone else around them to the point that they cause non-Christians to fear and hate, and some Christians to lose faith and leave out of disgust?

I think the quick answer to that would be to score points with their god. I know that sounds strange to people not deep into religion but I believe that to be the basic principle. I know as a Muslim you do score points if you "convert" a non-believer. Mind you there are never enough brownie points in heaven.

First, I don't agree with your numbers. Second, I can't answer for other Christians. However, I'll tell that I have only encountered the kind of Christians I see here, in media. I've never met a single person in real life that when I explained my position to them patiently didn't listen and revisit their own in regards to our faith.

I take that back. Once a pastor through me out of his office for asking a genuine question about something Jesus said that I thought didn't agree with his sermon. Now keep in mind I didn't even argue or present it agressively in any way. I walked in and asked him if he could explain how the quote supports his sermon. He asked me to leave.

That was the only person that was ever intolerant toward my views or as dogmatic as people like Ph33r was or Pooty is.

Then you need to get out more--they're everywhere, and they're not exactly shy. Hell, they were supposedly responsible for putting Dubya over the top in 2004.

Then you need to get out more--they're everywhere, and they're not exactly shy. Hell, they were supposedly responsible for putting Dubya over the top in 2004.

I think you'll find that there a lot more people who don't really adhere to the Bible at all and don't really claim to know the Bible who advocate the kind of prejudices you describe.

Perhaps the people just back down when challenged, but I know quite a few born again Christians or other fairly adamant Christians who do not act the way that some individuals on this board do.

Now the conservatives I meet, they often match up with this board, but that's not necessarily Christians.

EDIT: By the way, my original reply was aimed at mostly the types of Christians on this board who claim that you have to follow the Nicean Creed or the demands of the Nicean Council in order to be a "true" Christian. Christians are like everyone else. We're people and therefore we are no more homogenous than almost any other group. The one thing we agree on or should agree on is that the teachings of Christ are what lead us in life.

A counter-question: why do theists think that the notion that God is beyond logic think that's a reasonable position to defend when involved in is ostensibly a rational debate?

This is what I mean. Atheists fail to recognize the attributes of God and that he has no limitations. The human mind can not comprehend such a being. Why is that unreasonable to state as much. btw, you didn't answer my original question.

This is what I mean. Atheists fail to recognize the attributes of God and that he has no limitations. The human mind can not comprehend such a being. Why is that unreasonable to state as much. btw, you didn't answer my original question.

Back on the topic of questions for people: Is there any point in arguing with a theist, anyway?

Also, I've asked it before and I'll ask it again: Could the Ghostbusters capture the Holy Ghost?

Also, I've asked it before and I'll ask it again: Could the Ghostbusters capture the Holy Ghost?

Yes, of course. The Holy Ghost would be a tricky one, but I think they'd be able to manage. But then who will do the Holy Ghost's job while he's in storage?

but I taste the chlorine, I smell it, it's gross.

besides, where I am from, people outside of the city drink out of wells, that's untreated ground water.



Penn & Teller's show did an interesting episode on bottled water. Of course I liked it because it confirmed my own thoughts on the subject. And check out the one on second hand smoke.

http://www.sho.com/site/ptbs/prevepisodes.do?episodeid=s1/bw


BTW, I never have really liked the taste of water at all. The one place I found it palatable was the unchlorinated well we had in South Carolina.

Penn & Teller's show did an interesting episode on bottled water. Of course I liked it because it confirmed my own thoughts on the subject. And check out the one on second hand smoke.

http://www.sho.com/site/ptbs/prevepisodes.do?episodeid=s1/bw


BTW, I never have really liked the taste of water at all. The one place I found it palatable was the unchlorinated well we had in South Carolina.

My lake house draws water from the lake through natural filters. It's surprisingly good.

Though we recently found out that the lake on the opposite side of town tested positive for small traces of uranium, so it's likely we're not going to be drinking from the lake or from the tap for a good long while.

Penn & Teller's show did an interesting episode on bottled water. Of course I liked it because it confirmed my own thoughts on the subject. And check out the one on second hand smoke.

http://www.sho.com/site/ptbs/prevepisodes.do?episodeid=s1/bw


BTW, I never have really liked the taste of water at all. The one place I found it palatable was the unchlorinated well we had in South Carolina.

I loved that one. It was really funny. The funky hose was brilliant.

My lake house draws water from the lake through natural filters. It's surprisingly good.

Though we recently found out that the lake on the opposite side of town tested positive for small traces of uranium, so it's likely we're not going to be drinking from the lake or from the tap for a good long while.

wouldnt it be smarter to get your water tested? it might be just fine and then you wont have to worry about buying bottled water.

wouldnt it be smarter to get your water tested? it might be just fine and then you wont have to worry about buying bottled water.

We're in the process of getting it tested. However, despite being well educated, my parents can be downright moronic when it comes to things like this, so even if it does get cleared they at least will be drinking bottled water.

Though we don't get "designer" bottled water. Usually just those two-gallon giant jugs from some generic company. Which, if you ask me, kind of defeats the purpose.

We're in the process of getting it tested. However, despite being well educated, my parents can be downright moronic when it comes to things like this, so even if it does get cleared they at least will be drinking bottled water.

Though we don't get "designer" bottled water. Usually just those two-gallon giant jugs from some generic company. Which, if you ask me, kind of defeats the purpose.

no bottled water held in swarovski encrusted bottles??

no bottled water held in swarovski encrusted bottles??

The best we ever get is San Pellegrino at Italian restaurants.

My folks are too old-fashioned to buy designer stuff.

Why do anarchists complain when things are "unfair"? I never understood that one...

Why do anarchists complain when things are "unfair"? I never understood that one...

Um... why shouldn't we?

Why do anarchists complain when things are "unfair"? I never understood that one...

what's not to understand?

Ha, my bottled water question prevailed through 11 pages!

Why do people in first world countries drink bottled water?


Here in Italy, because you don't get sparkling water from the aqueduct. Most of the people I know drink water from the city's aqueduct, though.

Still, what the fuck is wrong with you?
My answer was clear enough, so there is nothing wrong with me, from that statement, stop trawling you spaz, what is wrong with you?