NationStates Jolt Archive

An interesting comment / opinion I found in a book I'm reading, and which I thought I'd toss out here:


Britain, Australia and New Zealand reinvented an independent and rapidly consolidating Pacific Islands. The USA, France, Chile and Indonesia reinvented new forms of colonialism: full assimilation, dependent independence, partial autonomy or brutal domination.

From: Steven R. Fischer, A History of the Pacific Islands, 2002, p.261

So you have some background information, here's a list of independent and non-independent countries in the Pacific, and who is / was the colonial power. To simplify, I use the word "colony" in all cases, but in reality things were / are a lot more complex, with Pacific territories being classified into a wide variety of statuses.

Hawai'i's status, as you know, is unique. It is officially part of the US. Initially, it was a fully sovereign, internationally recognised kingdom, invaded by US businessmen and later annexed.

Niue and the Cook Islands are officially "self-governing and in free association with New Zealand". New Zealand's remaining dependent territories (Cook Islands, Niue, Tokelau) are free to become fully independent at any time, but have expressed no wish to do so. In 2006, Tokelau rejected greater autonomy by referendum, but New Zealand and the UN are still pushing it to accept greater independence.

"Former colonial power" means the last country to have exerted colonial authority before independence. A lot of these countries were successively under control of various colonial masters. Most notable, territories in the Micronesian region have successively been colonised by Spain, Germany, Japan, and the United States.

Independent (former colonial power)

* Australia (United Kingdom)
* New Zealand (United Kingdom)
* Palau (United States)
* FS Micronesia (United States)
* Marshall Islands (United States)
* Papua New Guinea (Australia)
* Nauru (Australia, New Zealand and the UK jointly; mostly under Australian rule)
* Kiribati (United Kingdom)
* Solomon Islands (United Kingdom)
* Tuvalu (United Kingdom)
* Vanuatu (France and United Kingdom: jointly, in a Condominium)
* Fiji (United Kingdom)
* Samoa (United Kingdom)
* Tonga (never officially colonised; was a British protectorate)

Remaining "colonies" / dependent territories
* Northern Mariana Islands (United States)
* Guam (United States)
* Hawai'i (United States)
* Irian Jaya (Indonesia)
* New Caledonia (France)
* Wallis and Futuna (France)
* Tokelau (New Zealand)
* American Samoa (United States)
* Cook Islands (New Zealand)
* Niue (New Zealand)
* French Polynesia (France)
* Pitcairn (United Kingdom)
* Rapa Nui, i.e. Easter Island (Chile)

Comments on the quote?

I am proud of America's pacific territories. I think they have strategic importance for us. I do not want them to be independent unless they really really want to and agree to recognize an American military easement.

I am proud of America's pacific territories. I think they have strategic importance for us. I do not want them to be independent unless they really really want to and agree to recognize an American military easement.

An American military what?

To my knowledge, American Samoa does not want independence. It gets heaps of money and infrastructure by remaining a US colony, and American Samoans enjoy easy emigration to the US.

I have to say I don't know what the feeling is in Guam and the Northern Mariana Islands. Indigenous Hawaiians, I believe, have mixed feelings on the topic.

The US's former Pacific colonies (the FSM, Marshall Islands and Palau) still have very close ties to the US, including militarily. They are heavily dependent on the US in economic terms, and hence - to put it bluntly - suck up to the US government as much as possible. They support the US's foreign policies almost unconditionally even when the rest of the world does not. A clear example in the annual UN vote on the Cuban embargo. In 2006, the entire world (including the UK and Australia) voted (yet again) to end the embargo, except the US, Israel, the Marshall Islands and Palau. Micronesia abstained, but did not vote against the US. Similarly, Palau joined the "Coalition of the Willing" (despite the fact that it has no army). And so on...

Since you mention the US, I'm curious on two points. How much do Americans know about the annexation of Hawai'i? And are Americans even aware that the US has colonised territories in the Pacific, and still has dependent territories there today?

Meh. The British empire has long since disappeared, and no amount of Pacific Islands can change that.

That "amount" today is just Pitcairn. The UK's last remaining colony in the Pacific. Population: about 45.

Meh. The British empire has long since disappeared, and no amount of Pacific Islands can change that.

I just thought we let the people from those little islands compete in the Commonwealth games out of sympathy, cos they weren't good enough to go to the Olympics - I didn't think they were still part of the glorious empire:D

An American military what?

To my knowledge, American Samoa does not want independence. It gets heaps of money and infrastructure by remaining a US colony, and American Samoans enjoy easy emigration to the US.

I have to say I don't know what the feeling is in Guam and the Northern Mariana Islands. Indigenous Hawaiians, I believe, have mixed feelings on the topic.

The US's former Pacific colonies (the FSM, Marshall Islands and Palau) still have very close ties to the US, including militarily. They are heavily dependent on the US in economic terms, and hence - to put it bluntly - suck up to the US government as much as possible. They support the US's foreign policies almost unconditionally even when the rest of the world does not. A clear example in the annual UN vote on the Cuban embargo. In 2006, the entire world (including the UK and Australia) voted (yet again) to end the embargo, except the US, Israel, the Marshall Islands and Palau. Micronesia abstained, but did not vote against the US. Similarly, Palau joined the "Coalition of the Willing" (despite the fact that it has no army). And so on...

Since you mention the US, I'm curious on two points. How much do Americans know about the annexation of Hawai'i? And are Americans even aware that the US has colonised territories in the Pacific, and still has dependent territories there today?
I know Hawaii had a queen, and american Sugar Cane and Pinapple Companies(Dole) gradually took control of the island, overthrew the Queen and invited the US Military in to annex the islands.

We had the Phillipines Guam, Wake Island, Tinian, and the Hawaiian Islands(including midway) before WWII. Then we picked up some more territory from Japan, that had been German Colonies prior to WWI and Japan had ruled them under a League of Nations Mandate.


Is that suffecient knowledge of the subject? Also we needed pacific islands if we were going to trade with China, we needed coaling stations to get across the vast pacific(Coal powered ships didn't have a whole lot of range) Do we need the islands we have their now? Nope, do they really want to be free? most don't, we treat them like Puerto Rico, full rights of citizenship except voting in national elections, and they don't pay federal taxes. Of course they are going to want to stay.


Hawaii..........The US will never give up Hawaii, we enjoy Fort Shafter, Schoefeild Barracks, Hickam AFB and Pearl Harbor Naval Base a bit too much to ever give it up.

That "amount" today is just Pitcairn. The UK's last remaining colony in the Pacific. Population: about 45.

Scared?

You should be!:D

I know Hawaii had a queen, and american Sugar Cane and Pinapple Companies(Dole) gradually took control of the island, overthrew the Queen and invited the US Military in to annex the islands.

We had the Phillipines Guam, Wake Island, Tinian, and the Hawaiian Islands(including midway) before WWII. Then we picked up some more territory from Japan, that had been German Colonies prior to WWI and Japan had ruled them under a League of Nations Mandate.


Is that suffecient knowledge of the subject? Also we needed pacific islands if we were going to trade with China, we needed coaling stations to get across the vast pacific(Coal powered ships didn't have a whole lot of range)


Spot on. Good to know people know a bit of history. :)


Scared?

You should be! :D

I think Pitcairn's function is merely to amuse us. :D

Well, that and it's enabled the UK to still claim to be a Pacific power, and take part in regional organisations.

I think Pitcairn's function is merely to amuse us. :D

Well, that and it's enabled the UK to still claim to be a Pacific power, and take part in regional organisations.

It even has a silly name, although, does it allow us access to the Antarctic?

It even has a silly name, although, does it allow us access to the Antarctic?

No. The Antarctic is a seperate issue.

The UK seems to be losing interest in the Pacific, really. Pitcairn was useful as long as the UK wanted to maintain an active voice as a "regional power", but now it's been shutting several of its High Commissions throughout the region.

Hawaii's a state, not a territory.

Hawaii's a state, not a territory.

Read my OP. I don't feel like repeating myself.

Spot on. Good to know people know a bit of history. :)



.

Will it blow your mind that I'm a Soldier in the US Army?

Will it blow your mind that I'm a Soldier in the US Army?

Not really. I don't automatically assume that a soldier is uneducated, you know.

Ever been abroad as a soldier, then?

Aren’t most of the French islands a tad glassy?

Will it blow your mind that I'm a Soldier in the US Army?

where is your regimental/whatever pride!?

Aren’t most of the French islands a tad glassy?


Not all of them...

Those nuclear tests were a disgrace, but don't forget France wasn't the only country to test nukes in the Pacific. The US irradiated its own colonised peoples in Micronesia by testing nukes too close without evacuating them; the UK also tested nukes in Kiribati and in Australia. In the latter case, they did it on Aboriginal land without evacuating the people first.

Aren’t most of the French islands a tad glassy?



where is your regimental/whatever pride!?

oh I'm not saying people in my company, battalion, Brigade, State or the Army as a whole are stupid. Quite the opposite really, just not a lot of us study history or geography.....(yeah i know) Lo and behold before 9/11 I knew where both Afganistan and Iraq were, and what their capitals were. Soldiers I have worked with are intelligent and competent.

We'll give them independence just before sea levels rise and swallow their countries whole, so they can't use their common citizenship to get asylum.

Rule Britannia!

Hawaii's a state, not a territory.

but getting to vote doesn't stop you from being colonized

but getting to vote doesn't stop you from being colonized

*cough* Scotland, *Cough* Wales *Cough* Ireland

* Northern Mariana Islands (United States)

I always think they are the Marinara (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomato_sauce) Islands...

We should invade their countries, kill their leaders, steal their oil and convert their leaders to Christianity.

We should invade their countries, kill their leaders, steal their oil and convert their leaders to Christianity.

You're a bit late for that. Most of them have been devout Christians since the nineteenth century. Some of those countries (such as Niue) forbid certain activities on Sunday. Samoa banned the Da Vinci Code from being shown in its cinema. Polynesian and Micronesian countries and territories are, on the whole, strongly Christian.

They have no oil, but some of them (mainly in Melanesia) have minerals. And they have large marine EEZs. Quite a few years ago now American fishing ships were repeatedly confiscated by Vanuatu and other countries for illegal fishing in their waters, until an agreement was reached.

You're a bit late for that. Most of them have been devout Christians since the nineteenth century. Some of those countries (such as Niue) forbid certain activities on Sunday. Samoa banned the Da Vinci Code from being shown in its cinema. Polynesian and Micronesian countries and territories are, on the whole, strongly Christian.

They have no oil, but some of them (mainly in Melanesia) have minerals. And they have large marine EEZs. Quite a few years ago now American fishing ships were repeatedly confiscated by Vanuatu and other countries for illegal fishing in their waters, until an agreement was reached. You totally missed the Ann Coulter reference. I wasn't being serious.

Pitcairn... allows Britain to maintain the "empire on which the sun never sets" line (because the sun doesn't quite finish setting there before it starts rising over 'Diego Garcia' which is in the Indian Ocean...)

Also _
'Norfolk Island' was formerly a British colony, and is now an 'External Territory' of Australia: There have been loud disagreements between the Australian government and the local populace (who are mostly of Pitcairnese origins) over whether it should become more Australian or less so...

You totally missed the Ann Coulter reference. I wasn't being serious.

Your reference was obvious, as was the fact that you weren't being serious. I quoted it just a few days ago in another thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12331504&postcount=26).