NationStates Jolt Archive

BERLIN, Feb 14 (Reuters) - The terrified Israeli soldiers in director Joseph Cedar's new film "Beaufort" cannot see their enemy.

But their nerves are strained to breaking point by the shattering blasts from Hezbollah missiles that rain down on their mountain stronghold each day, in a seemingly endless cycle of senseless violence.

The young soldiers are defending an outpost in the heart of enemy territory in southern Lebanon -- the site of the medieval Beaufort Crusader castle which became a powerful symbol of Israel's hold on its neighbour following its 1982 invasion.

"The film treats war like a natural disaster or force of nature," Cedar told reporters at the Berlin Film Festival, where the film, partly funded by the Israeli government, debuted.

"There is no enemy, or you don't see it. The missiles fall like rain. It could be any war, anywhere."

Israeli actor Oshri Cohen plays "Liraz", the 22-year-old outpost commander who must keep his fears in check as his soldiers slowly crack under the pressure of daily rocket attacks on their claustrophobic maze of mountain-top bunkers.

He can only look on helplessly as his comrades, eagerly awaiting a green light from the government to leave the strategic hilltop fortress, are picked off one by one.

It is not until the survivors have blown up the concrete complex that their friends died defending and withdrawn safely to Israeli territory that Liraz can let down the emotional guard he has erected to ward off mental collapse.

Source: Reuters
my2cents: funded by the Israeli Gov?
this film pictures the futility of war.

this film pictures the futility of war.so maybe it teaches Israel to not start new wars.

so maybe it teaches Israel to not start new wars.

Yeah, they should make one for the Serbians to, since they started WWI after all. :rolleyes:

It's probably supported by the Israeli Film Fund or suchlike. There are a lot of government funded cultural funding agencies that have nothing to do with government.

This film, from its description, sounds like pretty classic war-movie fare. Nothing to get excited about.

Yeah, they should make one for the Serbians to, since they started WWI after all. :rolleyes:the Producers, Director, actors are all 100% Israeli. AFAIK
and it was funded by the Gov of Israel.

Interesting.

the Producers, Director, actors are all 100% Israeli.
and it was funded by the Gov of Israel. (apparently)

I was refering to the posters (apparent) laying of blame soley on Israel for the conflict.
Rather like blaming Serbia for the actions of a certain Arch-duke shooting nutcase.

Yeah, they should make one for the Serbians to, since they started WWI after all. :rolleyes:
Rather like blaming Serbia for the actions of a certain Arch-duke shooting nutcase.to compare the situation...

it would have to be a Film funded by the Serbian Gov... with Serbian Director/producers/Actors.

This thread's title is syntactically confusing.

Don't they call in airstrikes in situations like that?

Seriously - when you make a movie about one of the most tooled up armies in the world vs a rag tag milita armed with un-aimed rockets you gotta work real hard to make it look like the guys who can have death rain from the skies with a couple of minutes notice are the underdog...

one of the most tooled up armies in the world vs a rag tag milita armed with un-aimed rockets...

uhh, you mean rockets that came from syria and iran? you mean those "un-aimed" rockets?

hm...

uhh, you mean rockets that came from syria and iran? you mean those "un-aimed" rockets?

hm...

Sure the anti-tank ones were a bit more high tech - but the rockets they fired at ground targets - the ones the IDF went in to stop being fired - were aimed by pointing in the direction and hoping you got it right. Hell - they fired several thousand of the things and managed to kill something like 50 people with them.

Which when you compare to a force who can call in targeted air strikes on a couple of minute notice...

Sure the anti-tank ones were a bit more high tech - but the rockets they fired at ground targets - the ones the IDF went in to stop being fired - were aimed by pointing in the direction and hoping you got it right. Hell - they fired several thousand of the things and managed to kill something like 50 people with them.

Which when you compare to a force who can call in targeted air strikes on a couple of minute notice...

Tell it to the Soviets. They fired thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands or even more, of rockets during WWII, and the Germans started to fear the noise made by a certain Miss Katyusha just as much as somebody shouting "ACHTUNG! SPITFIRE!"

Then the Soviets got hit by the same rockets in Afghanistan fourty years later.

Tell it to the Soviets. They fired thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands or even more, of rockets during WWII, and the Germans started to fear the noise made by a certain Miss Katyusha just as much as somebody shouting "ACHTUNG! SPITFIRE!"

Then the Soviets got hit by the same rockets in Afghanistan fourty years later.

Could the germans call in airstrikes against a foe who had no capability to shoot down the planes carpeting the area with cluster bombs?

Shouldn’t it be Hezbollah forces that are cowering in fear? Surely that’s occurred more often in reality.

Anyhow, I’m not big on war movies that don’t show the humanity of both sides.

Could the germans call in airstrikes against a foe who had no capability to shoot down the planes carpeting the area with cluster bombs?

Early in the war? Definitly. They had total air dominance, one reason the Soviets got pushed back so fast despite a number of superior tank designs (another reason being that they didnt maintain those superior tank designs), the Germans simply blew those tanks up from the air.

Early in the war? Definitly. They had total air dominance, one reason the Soviets got pushed back so fast despite a number of superior tank designs (another reason being that they didnt maintain those superior tank designs), the Germans simply blew those tanks up from the air.

And while the Germans were whipping the Soviets - did they fear these missiles all that much or did that only come later when they lost total dominance and were unable to order a quick airstrike to flatten the launching areas?

Shouldn’t it be Hezbollah forces that are cowering in fear? Surely that’s occurred more often in reality.

Anyhow, I’m not big on war movies that don’t show the humanity of both sides.

Indeed. In a war film, a really good war film you need two distinct things:

1. Equal screen time for both sides of the conflict to show their humanity etc.
2. Foreign language. I hated hearing Germans played by American actors speaking in English with exaggerated accents in old movies. The best war films have each side speaking their own language.

And while the Germans were whipping the Soviets - did they fear these missiles all that much or did that only come later when they lost total dominance and were unable to order a quick airstrike to flatten the launching areas?

They feared Katyusha quite a bit even when they were winning.
The problem with rockets is that you can redeploy them before air support arrives, since setup/breakdown only takes a minute, and very large rockets can be stuck on the back of a truck.
Hence the Russians could set up, launch a volley, and move on. Sure, they suffered losses to their rocket forces, but the mentality was that they could always be replaced. Which was true.

so maybe it teaches Israel to not start new wars.

Or teach Hezbollah not to start an old war when there is no peace treaty in place to begin a new war.

Tell it to the Soviets. They fired thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands or even more, of rockets during WWII, and the Germans started to fear the noise made by a certain Miss Katyusha just as much as somebody shouting "ACHTUNG! SPITFIRE!"

Things the Germans didn't have. Equal massed counter artillery fire in terms of range, area coverage and response times.

If you're saying the Israeli's don't have anything on better than equal terms, you must be living on the moon.

Long story short. Any movie trying to show Israel as the underdog in these conflicts is like trying to say how the US troops were the underdog in Vietnam.

The only difference is that the US lost the stomach to keep fighting a pointless war.


Then the Soviets got hit by the same rockets in Afghanistan fourty years later.

The Soviets could shrug off Mujaheedin artillery strikes easy enough. Their bases were hardened for that sort of thing, and Hind-D patrols made mince meat of any sort of firing position. It wasn't until they got Stinger missiles did the Soviets start losing ground.

Will Hezbollah make a companion movie, where civilians run down the street screaming with their skin on fire from Israeli napalm?

Things the Germans didn't have. Equal massed counter artillery fire in terms of range, area coverage and response times.

If you're saying the Israeli's don't have anything on better than equal terms, you must be living on the moon.

Long story short. Any movie trying to show Israel as the underdog in these conflicts is like trying to say how the US troops were the underdog in Vietnam.

The only difference is that the US lost the stomach to keep fighting a pointless war.



The Soviets could shrug off Mujaheedin artillery strikes easy enough. Their bases were hardened for that sort of thing, and Hind-D patrols made mince meat of any sort of firing position. It wasn't until they got Stinger missiles did the Soviets start losing ground.
The Germans had some quite good artillery, even late in the war. It just couldnt respond fast enough to take out the rocket positions before they moved. One reason the Germans started getting into rockets was to counter the Soviet bombardments, then of course they found out that counterbattery fire with rockets doesnt work too well.


Eh, I was argueing WWII at that point :P

And the Hinds had their own issues. Like the left point of the Red Star giving a handy indication of where the fuel tank was :P

And the Mujahadeedin didnt usually mass 50 or so trucks firing 40 rockets each into an area. Thats enough firepower to take out just about anything. Trenches and bunkers wouldnt do you a whole lot of good.

Will Hezbollah make a companion movie, where civilians run down the street screaming with their skin on fire from Israeli napalm?

Hezbollah make loads of movies. They just tend to involve the deaths of their enemies... and they don't use actors. And the lack of actors would make it difficult for 'l-Hizb to emphasis the atrocities that the Israeli Army perpetrate... because the Israeli Army doesn't perpetrate atrocities.

the Israeli Army doesn't perpetrate atrocities.sarcasmo-meter is bleeping like a firetruck

so maybe it teaches Israel to not start new wars.

And the Jews started WWII.:rolleyes:

Piss off Nazi

Hezbollah make loads of movies. They just tend to involve the deaths of their enemies... and they don't use actors. And the lack of actors would make it difficult for 'l-Hizb to emphasis the atrocities that the Israeli Army perpetrate... because the Israeli Army doesn't perpetrate atrocities.
Hezbollah's Al-Manar made a movie where they featured Blood Libel. They show a Jew ritualing killing either a Christian or Muslim to use his blood for Matzah. I'm pretty sure UB has both seen the movie and is in fear of the Jews because of seeing it.

And the Jews started WWII.:rolleyes:

Piss off Nazi

The comparison thing got done much better with Serbia, and there the comparison wasn't completely true. This is just neo-Godwinning rubbish.

The comparison thing got done much better with Serbia, and there the comparison wasn't completely true. This is just neo-Godwinning rubbish.

It was the best I could do in a hurry :P

The comparison thing got done much better with Serbia, and there the comparison wasn't completely true. This is just neo-Godwinning rubbish.It's not godwinning when the poster in question actually is anti-semitic. UB has posted many times he supports attacks against the Jews living in Israel.

Indeed. In a war film, a really good war film you need two distinct things:

1. Equal screen time for both sides of the conflict to show their humanity etc.
2. Foreign language. I hated hearing Germans played by American actors speaking in English with exaggerated accents in old movies. The best war films have each side speaking their own language.

You can have a good war film spending time entirely or almost entirely on one side. Look at All Quiet on the Western Front, Saving Private Ryan, Flags of Our Fathers, or Letters from Iwo Jima. The important thing is making sure that when the enemy is depicted, they are depicted as other human beings.

...but I couldn't agree more about the language issue.

I'm always mistrustful of a government sponsored-film, no matter how well done it is.

It's not godwinning when the poster in question actually is anti-semitic. UB has posted many times he supports attacks against the Jews living in Israel.

Indeed. I hate people who the targeted killings of innocent civilians.

Indeed. In a war film, a really good war film you need two distinct things:

1. Equal screen time for both sides of the conflict..looking for Unbiased War movies ??
Good luck.
I have yet to see one from Hollywood.. (or from elsewhere)

Indeed. I hate people who the targeted killings of innocent civilians.IDF has killed masses of civilians, men women and children.

IDF has killed masses of civilians, men women and children.

Alot of it was also collaterial Damage. I'm sure you know what that is.

looking for Unbiased War movies ??
Good luck.
I have yet to see one from Hollywood.. (or from elsewhere)

I hear that Letters from Iwo Jima comes very, very close.

And Tora Tora Tora.

I hear that Letters from Iwo Jima comes very, very close.

And Tora Tora Tora.

And Midway as well. Thirt Seconds over Tokyo seemed unbias to me as well.

The Germans had some quite good artillery, even late in the war. It just couldnt respond fast enough to take out the rocket positions before they moved. One reason the Germans started getting into rockets was to counter the Soviet bombardments, then of course they found out that counterbattery fire with rockets doesnt work too well.

That's why I included the condition of response time. They didn't have counter artillery radar and radar slaved artillery response units that could start laying down counter fire the moment a launch was detected.


And the Hinds had their own issues. Like the left point of the Red Star giving a handy indication of where the fuel tank was :P

Bah, that was a problem with the painters, not the design. On the whole, it was a very fine assault gunship/transport hybrid.


And the Mujahadeedin didnt usually mass 50 or so trucks firing 40 rockets each into an area. Thats enough firepower to take out just about anything. Trenches and bunkers wouldnt do you a whole lot of good.

That's if the rockets landed all in the target area. Katyushas were splash weapons at best. Damage could be done, certainly, even heavy damage, but not enough to destroy the base.

And like I said, Hind-Ds made mincemeat of those trucks once they were in the air before Stingers became commonplace.