NationStates Jolt Archive

I can understand the welfare immigrants. But this baffles me. How is the International English Language Test? Is it similar to the TOEFL tests for the US?

http://www.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=81404&news=Migrants%20face%20deportation%20from%20Britain&pubDate=Wed%2C+14+Feb+2007+03%3A32%3A24+GMT&keyword=indexp_home
Migrants face deportation from Britain

Press Trust of India

London, February 14: Thousands of highly skilled migrants working in the UK from non-European countries, including India, face expulsion and deportation as the British government has strongly defended changes to its immigration and visa rules arguing it is aimed at meeting new challenges and requirements.

Defending changes to rules governing the Highly Skilled Migrant Programme (HSMP) visa rules, Mark Sedwill, Director of UK Visas, a joint Home and Foreign Office Directorate said, "there will always be changes to immigration rules. It is part of the continuing process to meet new challenges and requirements."

Sedwill said the HSMP would be first of the five-tier system being introduced and those coming under HSMP with two year visa would have to pass an International English Language Test, before getting extension of the Visa for two to five years and settle down.

He said there would be an upward revision in the Visa fee in April next year. "I don't expect dramatic changes," he said.

On the other hand, the HSMP forum, which is spearheading the challenge against changes in the visa rules affecting 49,000 highly skilled immigrants, including 30,000 from India said, "immigrants who have come to UK on Highly Skilled Migrants programme now face deportation as per the new rules imposed by Home Office in November 2006. Skilled immigrants who have been living in UK since past 2 to 4 years with their families face expulsion."

What, you don't actually believe it when they say "skilled immigrants are okay, we just don't want the welfare addicts", do you?

First of all, what a fantasic and unbiased source :p

If they can't speak the language of the nation, then they shouldn't be here

First of all, what a fantasic and unbiased source :p

If they can't speak the language of the nation, then they shouldn't be here
The poor Welsh... :(

The poor Welsh... :(

Meh, we pwned the Welsh back in the 13th century. They're nice and happy being ruled by Westminster :p

Meh, we pwned the Welsh back in the 13th century. They're nice and happy being ruled by Westminster :p

You say that now, but once Britian gets rid of the brown people it'll turn on the ones who aren't English enough, i.e. the Scottish and the Welsh. And Said countries will be less than pleased. Think Braveheart 2: The Son Of Wallace.

You say that now, but once Britian gets rid of the brown people it'll turn on the ones who aren't English enough, i.e. the Scottish and the Welsh. And Said countries will be less than pleased. Think Braveheart 2: The Son Of Wallace.

We pwned the scots before and we'll pwn them again!

We pwned the scots before and we'll pwn them again!

Meh, as long as we get another movie out of it.

First of all, what a fantasic and unbiased source :p

If they can't speak the language of the nation, then they shouldn't be here

Damn right. I say we start kicking out those pesky Geordies right now.

You say that now, but once Britian gets rid of the brown people it'll turn on the ones who aren't English enough, i.e. the Scottish and the Welsh. And Said countries will be less than pleased. Think Braveheart 2: The Son Of Wallace.

But but... Without the Welsh, where will we get our Pot Noodle?!

And if you kick out us Scots then you deprive yourselves of Haggis!

Heh, all I can say on this issue is that the tests they made up were complete and utter bollocks. I couldn't answer a single question of it and I've lived here all my life! Plus, even the queen herself was stumped on a few questions.

Why must one have knowledge of football to enter a country when rugby is by far the superior sport anyway?

This pertains to the Highly Skilled Migrant Programme. I would assume that most are able to speak English well enough.

This seems to me to be yet another bullshit waste of money.

It makes no sense to me. This...combined with the idea that benefits are cut for people who are not willing to learn English (ostensibly to save the £4 million a year for translation services)...hmmmm...

I suspect this is yet another New Liebur disconnect...

I wonder what would happen if Spain or France did the same...all those Brits getting deported cause they can't be arsed to learn the local language...(yeah yeah I know....EU citizens so no chance of it happening...but it would have been amusing)....

Having said all this I do think that people should at least make the effort to learn English if they want to live in the UK.

Heh, all I can say on this issue is that the tests they made up were complete and utter bollocks. I couldn't answer a single question of it and I've lived here all my life! Plus, even the queen herself was stumped on a few questions.

Why must one have knowledge of football to enter a country when rugby is by far the superior sport anyway?

You have to know about football to be a proper hooligan.

But but... Without the Welsh, where will we get our Pot Noodle?!

And if you kick out us Scots then you deprive yourselves of Haggis!

Does anyone outside of Scotland actually eat that?

First of all, what a fantasic and unbiased source :p

If they can't speak the language of the nation, then they shouldn't be here

The UK has no official language. Some constituent countries have official minority languages but English is not one of them.

Does anyone outside of Scotland actually eat that?

Quite a few, by which I mean a small minority, of people eat it on Burns night (sp?). But at no other time of the year. We have one in the fridge at the moment but it might have gone off.

Quite a few, by which I mean a small minority, of people eat it on Burns night (sp?). But at no other time of the year. We have one in the fridge at the moment but it might have gone off.

Sacrilege! Sacrilege I say! Haggis is a culinary delight to be adored and loved by all!

The day Scotland gains it's independance, the entire world will know of the Haggis, as you shall all be annexed into a Greater Scotland, and forced to eat it every day! Scotland Uber Alles!

Hey, I quite like haggis.

Hey, I quite like haggis.

Oh. Good. I can mark you off the black list then.

*Scores of No paradise from black list*

Sacrilege! Sacrilege I say! Haggis is a culinary delight to be adored and loved by all!

The day Scotland gains it's independance, the entire world will know of the Haggis, as you shall all be annexed into a Greater Scotland, and forced to eat it every day! Scotland Uber Alles!
Cruel and unusual punishment!

Cruel and unusual punishment!

Of course if the Scottish First Reich is ever defeated, even though such a thought is unspeakable, we shall of course completely deny any mass killings through malnutrition ever took place.

Of course if the Scottish First Reich is ever defeated, even though such a thought is unspeakable, we shall of course completely deny any mass killings through malnutrition ever took place.

Deep fried Mars Bars/Pizza/Snickers/everyfoodthatisunhealthy

Deep fried Mars Bars/Pizza/Snickers/everyfoodthatisunhealthy

Correct. You entertain me. You shall be spared when the time comes.

Correct. You entertain me. You shall be spared when the time comes.

Outside of engineering the Scots couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery....oh wait....

Outside of engineering the Scots couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery....oh wait....

I'll let that slide. But don't say that if your in the country, or you'll meet the Pissed-Off Russians distant cousin, the Atterie Scot.

I'll let that slide. But don't say that if your in the country, or you'll meet the Pissed-Off Russians distant cousin, the Atterie Scot.

That was a compliment....;)

Outside of engineering the Scots couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery....oh wait....

Engineering and modern capitalism. Over all opinion is still divided.

I can't say I really give a toss about the deportations, but how on earth is Liverpool going to survive?

Whatever they speak is closer to seagull than English.

Apparently the Home Office is retrospectively changing the laws. In other words, people who were completely legal before have become illegal overnight. And getting deported. Here is what one person affected had to say:

When I applied the guidelines stated EXPLICITLY, and in the case of indefinite leave to remain IN QUADRUPLICATE that it would be granted after four years. The guidelines also stated clearly that other recent rule changes would NOT be applied retrospectively.

If you are reading the CURRENT HSMP or immigration guidelines available on various government websites, they don't reflect the rules, agreement and understanding under which the vast majority of us applied.

I would ask you to consider how YOU would feel if the government suddenly started apply retrospective changes to YOUR life - as a hypothetical example, by increasing your council tax or income tax by 10% and backdating it four years.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23384677-details/'Wrong'%20people%20being%20deported,%20Blair%20is%20warned/article.do

The Home Office is being taken to court over this, according to another commenter on the same page.

This is just dumb. We're kicking out skilled workers but letting extremist parasites stay in the country at the taxpayer's expense. Wonderful.

I’d protest…but I can’t be bothered

It would appear that not only skilled workers are being deported, but refugees are also being deported to countries where there is ongoing civil war.

Kurds are being sent to Iraq. (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/article2268899.ece)

They are also deporting Britons to Somalia. (http://www.shabelle.net/news/ne2318.htm)

Well if they can't can't speak the lingua Franca (I mean English, not French :p) of the legal and/or government system then that makes them fairly useless and unskilled with relation to job within a British context.

Deportation does seem stupid though. I would think providing them with English lessons to pass a proficieny test and then charging them for the priviledge would be a better idea.

It would appear that not only skilled workers are being deported, but refugees are also being deported to countries where there is ongoing civil war.

Kurds are being sent to Iraq. (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/article2268899.ece)

They are also deporting Britons to Somalia. (http://www.shabelle.net/news/ne2318.htm)You need to read the second article again. What I got from it is that four British Nationals had gone to Somalia for whatever reason (Islamic tutition and a friend's marriage). When Ethiopia invaded they fled to Kenya. The Kenyan authorities then proceeded to deport them back to Somalia. The Foreign Office found out and then sent diplomats from the Consulate in Nairobi to bring the four back to Kenya. They were them flown to the UK where they were arrested and then released without charge.

edit: and I think the Blair government's decision to deport people back to Iraq is outrageous publicity stunt to try and convince people Iraq is getting safer (when it isn't).

You need to read the second article again. What I got from it is that four British Nationals had gone to Somalia for whatever reason (Islamic tutition and a friend's marriage). When Ethiopia invaded they fled to Kenya. The Kenyan authorities then proceeded to deport them back to Somalia. The Foreign Office found out and then sent diplomats from the Consulate in Nairobi to bring the four back to Kenya. They were them flown to the UK where they were arrested and then released without charge.

edit: and I think the Blair government's decision to deport people back to Iraq is outrageous publicity stunt to try and convince people Iraq is getting safer (when it isn't).

Yes. You are correct. The Kenyans were the ones who deported the Britons to Somalia, and it was Home Office that intervened. It appears that my english reading comprehension skills are getting crappier. I would probably fail the Home Office test for English with such abilities.:eek:

First of all, what a fantasic and unbiased source :p

If they can't speak the language of the nation, then they shouldn't be here

I would think that many of the "skilled migrants" would be able to speak English. I am sure about the Indian migrants since English (either as a secondary language or as language of instruction) is a mandatory subject in Indian schools.
They just may not have passed the IESL whatever test.

The source is PTI - which has basically taken comments from HSMP officials themselves. Don't throw "bias" around without any grounds.

This is just dumb. We're kicking out skilled workers but letting extremist parasites stay in the country at the taxpayer's expense. Wonderful.

We can't locate the extremist parasites because they're hiding from us. Then the Daily Hate complains that the country's full of immigrants, Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells is up in arms, and the government feel like they have to do something...
Dumb. Dumb fucking country full of dipshits. O England, where have your green fields gone etc etc...

Surely one would first opt for an english education course first (possibly home study to lower costs) and an exam first, instead of taking the knee-jerk reaction?

In any case, foreigners often speak English better than the locals.

Apparently the Home Office is retrospectively changing the laws. In other words, people who were completely legal before have become illegal overnight. And getting deported.

Along with their families.

I don't know what has prompted this. Is it because they are tightening down all sorts of immigration or is it that they have found out that many have exploited loopholes and came in and they can't get only those out and so they are booting everyone out ?

We can't locate the extremist parasites because they're hiding from us. Then the Daily Hate complains that the country's full of immigrants, Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells is up in arms, and the government feel like they have to do something...
Dumb. Dumb fucking country full of dipshits. O England, where have your green fields gone etc etc...
under Prescott's upper middle class sea of concrete.

Although actually, Disgusted of Keighley worries me a little more than Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells.

Along with their families.

I don't know what has prompted this. Is it because they are tightening down all sorts of immigration or is it that they have found out that many have exploited loopholes and came in and they can't get only those out and so they are booting everyone out ?

Maybe it's just a heavy-handed way for the UK government to cash in on the current anti-immigrant spreading through Europe.

Or it could be that they are going to cut funding drastically to the immigration department. They want to reduce the case-load so that they can claim the Home Office only needs a reduced budget.

To me, it seems illegal. I assumed that UK law had some sort of 'grandfather clause' that would prevent retrospective implementation of new laws.

Maybe it's just a heavy-handed way for the UK government to cash in on the current anti-immigrant spreading through Europe.

Or it could be that they are going to cut funding drastically to the immigration department. They want to reduce the case-load so that they can claim the Home Office only needs a reduced budget.

To me, it seems illegal. I assumed that UK law had some sort of 'grandfather clause' that would prevent retrospective implementation of new laws.
Nope. UK non-existent Constitution simply reads: "what can the PM get away with?"

Nope. UK non-existent Constitution simply reads: "what can the PM get away with?"Most of the time, but sometimes the Judges and Lawlords can say 'piss off, this ain't what we normally do. We value precedent you sons of bitches!'

Meh, most likely they've done to claim that they've cut illegal immigration and have deported 50k illegals.

Democracy in this country is a scam... no... I'll save my rant about the prison system for another day. But I have very little love for this country left and will if given the chance I will probably emmigrate.

Would these be the highly skilled migrants the government has been paying millions to buy translators for so they can tell officials they are unemployed?

Would these be the highly skilled migrants the government has been paying millions to buy translators for so they can tell officials they are unemployed?

The majority are apparently East Indian professionals who speak fluent english. Unless you think people can get a doctor's degree or a lawyer's degree without learning English. Here (http://adaniel.tripod.com/Languages3.htm) is a website explaining the role of the English language in India today. Or you could ask Aryavartha (the OP), who lives in India.

Here is a list of articles concerning this issue. (http://news.google.ca/news?hl=en&q=Highly%20Skilled%20Migrant%20Programme&btnG=Google+Search&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wn)

We can't locate the extremist parasites because they're hiding from us. Then the Daily Hate complains that the country's full of immigrants, Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells is up in arms, and the government feel like they have to do something...
Dumb. Dumb fucking country full of dipshits. O England, where have your green fields gone etc etc...
Actually there are plenty we can locate. We've given asylum to members of foreign islamist movements such as the Muslim Brotherhood and Hizb ut-Tahrir. These people have now been extremist preachers in Britain. We let them stay here because we're afraid they may face a little discomfort at the hands of the authorities in their own countries. We could easily locate a lot of these people, but the government is too gutless.

Would these be the highly skilled migrants the government has been paying millions to buy translators for so they can tell officials they are unemployed?
No, probably not.

Most of the time, but sometimes the Judges and Lawlords can say 'piss off, this ain't what we normally do. We value precedent you sons of bitches!'
Yeah, but that is a rather tenuous protection against the government.

Meh, most likely they've done to claim that they've cut illegal immigration and have deported 50k illegals.

Democracy in this country is a scam... no... I'll save my rant about the prison system for another day. But I have very little love for this country left and will if given the chance I will probably emmigrate.
True on all accounts.

Actually there are plenty we can locate. We've given asylum to members of foreign islamist movements such as the Muslim Brotherhood and Hizb ut-Tahrir. These people have now been extremist preachers in Britain. We let them stay here because we're afraid they may face a little discomfort at the hands of the authorities in their own countries. We could easily locate a lot of these people, but the government is too gutless.
Undoubtedly an exaggeration. We produce enough terrorists of our own here, which is much more of a problem, so only going after foreign ones is really a red herring. Although it doesn't mean much in this day and age, we do have some standards in this country, and tacit approval of torture is not one of them.

The poor Welsh... :(
Are there any rich Welsh?

Are there any rich Welsh?

There are but none of them live in Wales

The majority are apparently East Indian professionals who speak fluent english. Unless you think people can get a doctor's degree or a lawyer's degree without learning English. Here (http://adaniel.tripod.com/Languages3.htm) is a website explaining the role of the English language in India today. Or you could ask Aryavartha (the OP), who lives in India.

Here is a list of articles concerning this issue. (http://news.google.ca/news?hl=en&q=Highly%20Skilled%20Migrant%20Programme&btnG=Google+Search&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wn) Ah, typical NuLabour. Instead of kicking out West Indian gangsta parasites, we kick out East Indian doctors and corner shop owners.

I'm not making fun of the Indians: corner shops are very important. :) Milk and the paper.

Of course if the Scottish First Reich is ever defeated, even though such a thought is unspeakable, we shall of course completely deny any mass killings through malnutrition ever took place.
I thought the First Reich is basically Scotland, the Orkneys, Shetlands and Falklands, and that it's doing alright on the quiet on oil money (or that which us Englanders aren't stealing, anyway).

But I have very little love for this country left and will if given the chance I will probably emmigrate.

Cool. I'm getting so sick of this countries political and social system, I'm thinking of emigrating to Canada. We can halve the boat ride.

Would these be the highly skilled migrants the government has been paying millions to buy translators for so they can tell officials they are unemployed?
Yes, obviously, which is why they're in IT jobs and such :rolleyes:

Cool. I'm getting so sick of this countries political and social system, I'm thinking of emigrating to Canada. We can halve the boat ride.
Canada's political system is in many respects quite similar.

Canada's political system is in many respects quite similar.

Meh. The system doesn't matter too much. Canada is just a better country in my opinion. Wnet there to visit relatives and a 3 week holiday and I fell in love. Only about a 1/3rd of inhabitable land is actually used in Canada. Kind of like a still-to-be explored frontier. Also, they actually pay young people like me to emigrate there. Sweet deal.

Yes, obviously, which is why they're in IT jobs and such :rolleyes: Do not get me started on certain IT people I know! Parasites and they're not Indians!

Meh. The system doesn't matter too much. Canada is just a better country in my opinion. Wnet there to visit relatives and a 3 week holiday and I fell in love. Only about a 1/3rd of inhabitable land is actually used in Canada. Kind of like a still-to-be explored frontier. Also, they actually pay young people like me to emigrate there. Sweet deal.
I agree entirely. If I get out of University (hell, I've got to get in yet!), I'd probably be right behind you.

Do not get me started on certain IT people I know! Parasites and they're not Indians!
Oh no. What have I begun?

Cool. I'm getting so sick of this countries political and social system, I'm thinking of emigrating to Canada. We can halve the boat ride.Screw that, I'm off to either Spain or Australia. They still have many assorted problems, but at least the weather's good - which is more than you can say of the UK.New Burmesia]Yeah, but that is a rather tenuous protection against the government.No less tenuous than any other protection. Real protection is only derived from people willing to stand up and a huge fuss if something happen's that they don't like.

http://www.rediff.com/news/2007/feb/16uk1.htm
An estimated 5,000 Indian doctors have returned home from the United Kingdom since April 2006 when changes in immigration rules were effected, a spokesman of the British Association of Physicians of Indian Origin said on Friday.

"There are still more than 10,000 doctors affected here," Raman Lakshman told PTI.

He said according to some calculations there were 40,000 junior Indian doctors in Britain. Of them 10,000 have got staff grade positions.

"Before 2004-05, about 10,000 doctors from India used to come every year. Since the new immigration rules were announced in 2006, according to rough estimate 5,000 doctors might have gone back," he said.

He said there would be more problems after August this year when the government's Modernising Medical Career Process scheme would be introduced.

He said under the centralised scheme, the government had advertised for 21,000 jobs for doctors in the British Medical Journal.

The advertisement came on January 22 and the applications would be short-listed by February 24 and the appointments would be made by August.

He said about 30,000 doctors had applied for the 21,000 jobs.

"If the health department applies the new immigration rules, all the jobs will go to UK and EU citizens and there will be another 9,000 unemployed doctors," he said.

Lakshman said the association had appealed to the Department of Health not to apply the discriminatory immigration rules. "They are considering it," he said.

Earlier, Indians doctors could apply and get a job in the National Health Service once they passed the Professional and Linguistic Assessment Board test.

But under the new immigration rules, the employer has to prove that they had no appropriate candidates from the UK and EU before offering it to the non-EU candidates.

"We believe it is immoral and unfair to do this to Indian and other international doctors already in the UK for some years and committed to life and work here," Lakshman said.

"The government has changed rules midway for these doctors causing damage to their lives and careers. This is unfair," he said.

There has been an excess of doctors in the UK because of increased training places in medical schools in the UK and a perception that there were many jobs, he said.

Also there was an increase in the number of PLAB exam places (to almost 10,000 per year at one time) and increase in number of doctors coming from the newly enlarged European Union, Lakshman said.