NationStates Jolt Archive

Between you and me, yes. And if I have to guess I would bet that Ashmoria can't stand being on my side much longer ;) , and with that in mind I think we can assume that this truce will be good enough for her too, yet I can't speak for her

If the others continue to jump all over me with their crap though I'm not promising not the respond to them... fair enough?

it is extremely difficult for me poot. i hope you have a small appreciation for my defending your position. i could have just let you be beat up without having anyone support you. i did that just yesterday by ignoring a thread that i normally would have loved to be in on but i disliked that poster even more.

it is extremely difficult for me poot. i hope you have a small appreciation for my defending your position. i could have just let you be beat up without having anyone support you. i did that just yesterday by ignoring a thread that i normally would have loved to be in on but i disliked that poster even more.

I don't have just a small appreciation for it, I have a HUGE appreciation for it.

My intention for future behavior with you, my gauge setting if you will, the setting that tells me how much I should 'listen and evaluate' someone's opinion before thinking I know what they are going to say etc., for you my gauge setting as been shot up through the roof, even though it was pretty high for you already.

I have a great deal of respect for your position and your choice here, because I do understand that you didn't have to say anything. But you did. IN the future I will try very hard to listen to you closely and think two or three times when next you are trying to put me in my place... thank you.

I'm not the only one that interprets it that way...


The B4k4 form of the japanese term was sighted on a site known as MegaTokyo. The main artist, Piro, of the 'manga'-style comic updated there has made it into a new warping of the 'romaji' form of Japanese (that is the roman alphabet form of the language so we can sound out the artistic characters that make up their language) and made a 'leet' linguistics version out of it, calling it b4k4speak (what B4k4^2 and B4k4 are, which are his trademark one-liners before he frags you out of nowhere in an FPS. "b4k4^2 is l33tspeak for 'baka baka' - and might be the last thing you hear after confronting the dangerously cute, pigtailed PiroQuake on the back. ph33r." link (http://www.thecomputershow.com/stormforge/b4k4-1ns4n30/b4k4.html)

If you didn't mean it like that then I take back my initial reaction...
*sighs* Do you REALLY want a run down on what baka means and its usage? I'll be more than happy to add on a number of pages to this thread trying to explain it and MegaTokyo and why b4k4speak isn't only for the Quale Arena, if you REALLY want me to.

I don't have just a small appreciation for it, I have a HUGE appreciation for it.

My intention for future behavior with you, my gauge setting if you will, the setting that tells me how much I should 'listen and evaluate' someone's opinion before thinking I know what they are going to say etc., for you my gauge setting as been shot up through the roof, even though it was pretty high for you already.

I have a great deal of respect for your position and your choice here, because I do understand that you didn't have to say anything. But you did. IN the future I will try very hard to listen to you closely and think two or three times when next you are trying to put me in my place... thank you.


thank you for that. it meant a lot to me.

And here I thought the Spanish Inquisition was over.

Hang in there, Smunkeeville.

And here I thought the Spanish Inquisition was over.

Nobody expects the Spani...

No. Just, no. I'm going to stop while I'm ahead.

Nobody expects the Spani...

No. Just, no. I'm going to stop while I'm ahead.
*Puts down the cushion* Awwww....

:p

did you miss the word SOME?

obviously not every religious person would be offended. equally obviously some religious people ARE.

i am not contending that you are wrong in not being offended by this stupid sacrilegious webpage. im am contending that you are wrong in suggesting that poot is wrong for being offended by it.

different people react to things in different ways.

I did miss the word "some" thanks ;)

also, I didn't say that Poot was wrong for being offended, he attacked me, I was just responding and questioning why he was offended. All of that other stuff had little to do with him (I found out later) and I explained that to him, so for now, we are okay......I think.

And here I thought the Spanish Inquisition was over.

Hang in there, Smunkeeville.

*hugs The Cat-Tribe*

I don't know where you went, but we missed you......I missed you.

There's a guy at the one dining place on campus that looks exactly, exactly like Jesus...he would pwn in that costume.

There's a guy at the one dining place on campus that looks exactly, exactly like Jesus...

What does Jesus look like?

What does Jesus look like?

Oh, snap.

This has been one of the most fun and funniest threads I've seen lately. Glad everybody made up. Gave me a warm fuzzy feeling.

Not even in the old testament were ALL graven images banned, only the images that took your worhsip away from god.

Exodus 25:18
And you shall make two cherubim of gold; of hammered work shall you make them, on the two ends of the mercy seat.

Exodus 26:1
"Moreover, you shall make the tabernacle with ten curtains of fine twined linen and blue and purple and scarlet yarns; you shall make them with cherubim skillfully worked into them.

Exodus 36:35
He made the veil of blue and purple and scarlet yarns and fine twined linen; with cherubim skillfully worked into it he made it.

1 Kings 6:23
In the inner sanctuary he made two cherubim of olivewood, each ten cubits high.

1 Kings 6:29
Around all the walls of the house he carved engraved figures of cherubim and palm trees and open flowers, in the inner and outer rooms.

1 Kings 7:36
And on the surfaces of its stays and on its panels, he carved cherubim, lions, and palm trees, according to the space of each, with wreaths all around.

2 Chronicles 3:7
So he lined the house with gold--its beams, its thresholds, its walls, and its doors--and he carved cherubim on the walls.

Is it worth pointing out that Kherubim are guards... and thus, that putting images of them on things is a little like gargoyles... a protective ward?

I note that all the examples of 'allowed' images you found, were of this kind.

Can you find a verse where it says it is okay to create an image of god?

I believe because I believe and nothing that Bottle or The Nazz or Grave_n_idle can come up with can change that; though they can make me think, which is always a good thing.


Hey, Grave_n_Idle is great at making me think......I like that, it's good for me. It doesn't offend me at all, in fact I think of him as a friend, a friend who cares enough to question me. ;)

This makes me smile. I've never been one to try to change what people believe - that would make no sense to me - but I fully endorse the idea of people thinking - me or anyone else. :)

It is far to easy to take everything we have been fed from the cradle, and accept it. It makes me smile to think I might be a catalyst for thought from time to time. :)

And yes, Smunkee, I do consider you a friend.

What else is new though? There are so many people to whom religion is a club where you get to feel special because YOU'RE part of the in group that ANYTHING that challenges that specialness must be attacked with great furry. It turns faith into something that can be lessened or cheapened by someone elses actions instead of your own.

The entire problem is that so many people "believe" without actually having thought about it much, so when they are asked to think they panic. They don't KNOW if their faith can hold up to actual thinking, because they've never tried, so criticism and examination of their faith freaks them out.


I've never understood it because faith is internal, I believe because I believe and nothing that Bottle or The Nazz or Grave_n_idle can come up with can change that; though they can make me think, which is always a good thing.

For whatever it's worth, I don't particularly care about what people "believe," aside from academic interest and general curiosity. I only really care about what they think and what they do. Because of this, I don't have any particular interest in changing what people "believe," at least not in the context of this discussion.

What I want to change is the number of people who THINK about their beliefs. What pisses me off is when people cling to beliefs that they are too terrified to really think about, and when they do so at the expense of their own well-being and the well-being of others.

If you give your beliefs serious thought and end up still believing in them, that's fine. If you allow honest, open discussion and still end up believing what you started out believing, that's fine. What bugs me to no end is when people stomp their little foots and refuse to think because they just want want want WANT to believe in what they've started out with. It's like watching a 2 year old pitch a tantrum. And I bloody well hate 2 year olds.

An image of something other than God that you bow down to or worship. Like a statue of Baal, or a Rams head, or a pillar of stones not dedicated to God etc.

EDIT: I did post this list of graven images that are not forbidden in the OT, as an example to show that act of ingraving and creating images of holy things are not in themselves entirely banned...http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12335078&postcount=220

Images of something other than God? Hmmmm... I think you added the other than God part. Let's check, shall we.

4 "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand {generations} of those who love me and keep my commandments.

God says pretty clearly that images of God or anything else in heaven or otherwise are not actually God and thus bowing down to them is wrong. Right simple, I'd call it.

Let's seem some more, shall we?

17 "Do not make cast idols.

Wow, in the commandments, he doesn't even add anything else. Just don't make them. Period. Nothing that could be construed to mean "unless they're of me."

Let's look at another reference, hmmkay.

1 " 'Do not make idols or set up an image or a sacred stone for yourselves, and do not place a carved stone in your land to bow down before it. I am the LORD your God.

Oh, look, no bowing down before any image. At all. He doesn't say "unless it's of me."

Now perhaps, you don't mind adding passages to what you consider to be the Word of God. Or maybe you don't think God had enough sense to know that without your added words we'd get confused. Or maybe God just isn't a very good writer.

Or perhaps, just perhaps, it's not for you to amend and you either have to admit that it says don't do it without any reference to exception you claimed or you have to admit that you think your beliefs are more important than what the Bible says. Choose.

An image of something other than God that you bow down to or worship. Like a statue of Baal, or a Rams head, or a pillar of stones not dedicated to God etc.

EDIT: I did post this list of graven images that are not forbidden in the OT, as an example to show that act of ingraving and creating images of holy things are not in themselves entirely banned...http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12335078&postcount=220

It's not the images that are banned. It's the claiming that they are actually representative of those things. According to the words it's only when you treat them as if they are God that God gets jealous. You know like praying to them, bowing before them, complaining about people's treatment of them. I know this is a complicated issue for you, but images of cherubim that are not be treated with reverence of any kind are hardly an argument against the explicit commandment "do not make cast idols."

To answer that, then… In my understanding, an object should not be worshiped, ever. A place to focus your thoughts and think of God and hear his presence is not forbidden, even if that 'place' is a image or statue etc.,. so long as it is Christ/God that you are focused on, not the secular image/statue.

Good. So you admit that you think it is acceptable to bow before graven idols of Christ. That, of course, is the position you claimed I was lying about, but, hey, why pick nits.

Meanwhile, can you show me where in the Bible, it says bow before cast idols as much as you like provided they are of me? And please make it explicit since the text requiring us not to is.