NationStates Jolt Archive

I suppose you can look at this as either an advantage, or disadvantage of a minority government.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070214/kyoto_3rd_070214/20070214?hub=TopStories

Parliamentarians will vote this evening on the private member's bill, which legally binds the Conservative government to implement measures to meet our commitments to Kyoto, and calls on the environment minister to outline within 60 days how it intends to meet the targets.

(portion cut out)

Conservatives and a number of environmentalists have said the targets will be impossible to reach by the deadline. Environment Minister John Baird said achieving the targets would cause economic collapse.

CP reports that one Tory suggested the minority government might simply ignore the bill if it becomes law.

"It's just a mischief bill," Mark Warawa, parliamentary secretary to the environment minister, told CP.

"It shows what the Liberals have always done: just empty rhetoric, empty bills that won't actually achieve anything."

A government official added that if the opposition doesn't like it, they can bring down the government.

Any way you look at it, this is a brilliant play by the Liberals. They get a backbencher to come up with a popular private member's bill. If it doesn't pass, they can just claim it was 'just a private member's bill'. If it passes, which it looks like it will, then it forces the Tories to do in 60 days, what the Liberal goverment had since 2002 to do; figure out how to afford a greener Canada.

If the Conservatives don't pony up, it's political ammunition for the Liberals. If they do, the Conservatives piss off their electoral base in Alberta. Either way, there's definitely an election coming sooner rather than later.

As to the purpose of the bill, I happen to agree. We've made a commitment to Kyoto, so I'd like to see some action on it. But this is definitely political gamesmanship on behalf of the Liberals. Well played...

UPDATE: It's official. Passed 161 to 113.

Glad I live in a country who's Senate voted 99-0 NOT to ratify that treaty.

Glad I live in a country who's Senate voted 99-0 NOT to ratify that treaty.

You also live in a country where your Senate actually matters.

A plan so cunning you could put a tail on it and call it a weasel.

You also live in a country where your Senate actually matters.
Of course the Canadian Senate matters. Where else would old politicians go to die?

Of course the Canadian Senate matters. Where else would old politicians go to die?

The Toronto Sun.

Better call Uma Thurman in, she can kill any Bill....



-runs away before being hit by rotten tomatoes, for such a lame joke-

I think the opposition parties want to snowball this into a vote of non-confidence.

By passing this bill, the Conservatives are then legally obligated to meet Kyoto. If they do not meet their legal obligations, that may force the Conservatives to be voted out through a non-confidence, paving the way for another election.

A plan so cunning you could put a tail on it and call it a weasel.

A plan so cunning you can brush your teeth with it. :D

*goes away*

I think the opposition parties want to snowball this into a vote of non-confidence.

By passing this bill, the Conservatives are then legally obligated to meet Kyoto. If they do not meet their legal obligations, that may force the Conservatives to be voted out through a non-confidence, paving the way for another election.
Well, if the Tories have indicated that they will ignore the bill that could happen, but all parties would have to seriously judge public opinion first. Taking it that far could seriously backfire.

I think the opposition parties want to snowball this into a vote of non-confidence.

By passing this bill, the Conservatives are then legally obligated to meet Kyoto. If they do not meet their legal obligations, that may force the Conservatives to be voted out through a non-confidence, paving the way for another election.

Question is, are the Liberals ready for another election? Is the country ready for another election? I think it would play well into Jack Layton's hands, frankly.

Question is, are the Liberals ready for another election? Is the country ready for another election? I think it would play well into Jack Layton's hands, frankly.

I was thinking the exact same thing. He's crafty.

I was thinking the exact same thing. He's crafty.

Yeah. He's definitely more charismatic than Dion, and he hits all the right notes on left-of-centre issues. If people blame the liberals for yet-another-election, and the conservatives for, well, being too conservative, then good ol' Jack just might benefit from our first-past-the-post system...

And I'm sure an NDP government would be more than happy to spend our way out of all of our problems...

Question is, are the Liberals ready for another election? Is the country ready for another election? I think it would play well into Jack Layton's hands, frankly.

Possibly. Still, If Dion can outline a convincing enough environmental platform, he might be able to damage the NDP severely.

Possibly. Still, If Dion can outline a convincing enough environmental platform, he might be able to damage the NDP severely.

Or split the left-of-centre vote and put the Conservatives back in power...

Ain't Canadian Politics Grand?

Yeah. He's definitely more charismatic than Dion, and he hits all the right notes on left-of-centre issues. If people blame the liberals for yet-another-election, and the conservatives for, well, being too conservative, then good ol' Jack just might benefit from our first-past-the-post system...

And I'm sure an NDP government would be more than happy to spend our way out of all of our problems...

I don't think it would be enough to put the NDP in power, but it might be enough to put him in a situation where the Liberals need his help with their minority government.

And a Liberal / NDP coalition government would still be a lot better than the conservatives in terms of our finances. At least, according to the CCPA.
See page 5. (http://policyalternatives.ca/documents/National_Office_Pubs/can_they_pay.pdf)

I don't think it would be enough to put the NDP in power, but it might be enough to put him in a situation where the Liberals need his help with their minority government.

And a Liberal / NDP coalition government would still be a lot better than the conservatives in terms of our finances. At least, according to the CCPA.
See page 5. (http://policyalternatives.ca/documents/National_Office_Pubs/can_they_pay.pdf)

Yeah, our regional politcal atmosphere kills the NDP in Quebec and Alberta for starters. But they could make major breakthroughs in Ontario... if Ontario can forget Bob Rae.

But a Liberal/NDP coaltion is a natural fit. Much better than an NDP/conservative monstrosity. I had no real problems with the Liberals financial planning over the years. Balanced budgets and debt down-payment based off of budget surplusses are in my playbook. Budget surpluses probably wouldn't happen in an NDP-heavy political scene. Forget about debt-payment entirely...

Yeah, our regional politcal atmosphere kills the NDP in Quebec and Alberta for starters. But they could make major breakthroughs in Ontario... if Ontario can forget Bob Rae.

But a Liberal/NDP coaltion is a natural fit. Much better than an NDP/conservative monstrosity. I had no real problems with the Liberals financial planning over the years. Balanced budgets and debt down-payment based off of budget surplusses are in my playbook. Budget surpluses probably wouldn't happen in an NDP-heavy political scene. Forget about debt-payment entirely...

Actually, the budget that the NDP proposed for the 2004 elections would have provided Canada with a 14.6 billion dollar surplus.

Actually, the budget that the NDP proposed for the 2004 elections would have provided Canada with a 14.6 billion dollar surplus.

According to the CCPA at any rate. Even the NDP only claimed a surplus of 5.3 Billion. I just have a hard time believing that a party that constantly cries for more spending would somehow end up with a surplus. I'm sure you would find that a large part of that surplus is the result of higher taxes for 'the wealthy and businesses'. Nice in principle, but it only hits us all in the long run.

Well, it's official. It's passed 160 to 113.

Any one else find it kind of odd that the opposition could table a bill that specifically forces the government to make spending changes? And with such a time limit? Don't get me wrong, I like the fact that there's a little democracy in this situation, and it's not all left up to the cabinet hand-picked by the PM. But it seems kinda odd...

At any rate, now the conservatives have to come up with some sort of half-baked plan to beef up the environment. Any guesses how? Or if they'll even bother? I'm guessing they'll just gear up for another election.