NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.space.com/spacenews/businessmonday_070212.html

One thing seriously strikes me in France's proposals. They want to convert the Ariane 5 into a manned launch vehicle. Very difficult, but not impossible by a long shot.

Overall, I can only say it's about damn time. I'm tired of the Euros bumming rides in our shiny Space Shuttle, and I'm sure Russia doesn't like it either. Their Soyuz is cramped enough without the Euros tagging along.

But, why hasn't Europe done all this before? Between all the member nations of the ESA, they have plenty of funding, and plenty of scientists and engineers to make it happen. I know there were a few manned spacecraft in the works ome years ago (Hermes, IIRC), but they got cancelled. What, did the Euros decide it would be more efficient to hitchhike on an American spacecraft instead of developing one themselves?

Anyway, good for France. It's about time we had a 3rd party in the exploration of space. And no, the Chinese don't count. Not yet.

What, did the Euros decide it would be more efficient to hitchhike on an American spacecraft instead of developing one themselves?
Pretty much.

Good.

It's time Europe stops free-riding.

One would think France would focus on its policies of blatant racism or UN corruption before building their own space fleet...

http://www.space.com/spacenews/businessmonday_070212.html

One thing seriously strikes me in France's proposals. They want to convert the Ariane 5 into a manned launch vehicle. Very difficult, but not impossible by a long shot.

Overall, I can only say it's about damn time. I'm tired of the Euros bumming rides in our shiny Space Shuttle, and I'm sure Russia doesn't like it either. Their Soyuz is cramped enough without the Euros tagging along.

But, why hasn't Europe done all this before? Between all the member nations of the ESA, they have plenty of funding, and plenty of scientists and engineers to make it happen. I know there were a few manned spacecraft in the works ome years ago (Hermes, IIRC), but they got cancelled. What, did the Euros decide it would be more efficient to hitchhike on an American spacecraft instead of developing one themselves?


Yep. We go, you pay, who doesn't love that system?:)

Good.

It's time Europe stops free-riding.

To be fair, they have done a fair amount of work with the ISS. But it is rather frustrating to see such a wealthy group of nations be so incompetent (relatively) when it comes to space.

what's the point of a "space race" now anyway? cooperation ...

One would think France would focus on its policies of blatant racism or UN corruption before building their own space fleet...

Domestic problems in the US did not stop it from developing a space program.
while I agree domestic problems are of the highest sort scientific endeavors to me should be fairly high up there too.

One thing seriously strikes me in France's proposals. They want to convert the Ariane 5 into a manned launch vehicle. Very difficult, but not impossible by a long shot.
(...)
Anyway, good for France. It's about time we had a 3rd party in the exploration of space. And no, the Chinese don't count. Not yet.

I'd give them about 5-10 years to surpass the ESA, another 20 to be comparable to the US, at this rate.

To be fair, they have done a fair amount of work with the ISS. But it is rather frustrating to see such a wealthy group of nations be so incompetent (relatively) when it comes to space.

I believe that the nations do pay for the missions and on a personal the Britishers have to become US citizens....so its not exactly free.

Also we are allies and allies ought to work together I'd have thought...

I'd give them about 5-10 years to surpass the ESA, another 20 to be comparable to the US, at this rate.

I'd consider that rather optimistic, considering their two spaceflights were made in copied Soyuz vehicles with an extra pair of solar panels stuck on with Superglue.

I believe that the nations do pay for the missions and on a personal the Britishers have to become US citizens....so its not exactly free.

Also we are allies and allies ought to work together I'd have thought...

Considering the costs of a shuttle flight...its damn as close to free as one could get. And only one British astronaut has gone on to become an American citizen. It's hardly a prerequisite.

And yes, we are allies. But it doesn't mean that you (Europe) shouldn't be developing your own manned vehicles. Especially if you are pro-EU.

I'd consider that rather optimistic,

I wouldn't. Where they are now is just a starting point. Look what they've achieved in the 25-odd years since the capitalist reforms introduced by Deng Xiaopeng.

I wouldn't. Where they are now is just a starting point. Look what they've achieved in the 25-odd years since the capitalist reforms introduced by Deng Xiaopeng.

Exactly what any economist would tell you would happen in any developing society. It's a classic example of an "S" curve. They'll continue to experience rapid growth until they plateau, if their economy is on solid footing, or collapse if it isn't.

Considering the costs of a shuttle flight...its damn as close to free as one could get. And only one British astronaut has gone on to become an American citizen. It's hardly a prerequisite.

And yes, we are allies. But it doesn't mean that you (Europe) shouldn't be developing your own manned vehicles. Especially if you are pro-EU.

Um actually all 3 British astronauts besides Sharman had to become US citizens. Oh...and Sharman went up in a Soyuz...hence not needing the change in citizenship.

So...yes. It is a pre-requisite.

Um actually all 3 British astronauts besides Sharman had to become US citizens. Oh...and Sharman went up in a Soyuz...hence not needing the change in citizenship.

So...yes. It is a pre-requisite.

Hmm...its rather suprising that these British astronauts didn't fly as ESA astronauts. I did not know that all British Astronauts eventually becane American citizens. Thanks for correcting me.

Hmm...its rather suprising that these British astronauts didn't fly as ESA astronauts. I did not know that all British Astronauts eventually becane American citizens. Thanks for correcting me.

They had to become US citizens before they were allowed to fly...

I think the reason they did not go as ESA astronauts is that our budget to ESA is only £180 million...which makes us a junior partner...meaning we are excluded from manned ESA missions...

Personally I'd rather we spent this money on investing our oceans...space flight is already crowded...