NationStates Jolt Archive

BEIJING - North Korea agreed Tuesday to shut down its main nuclear reactor within 60 days at talks with the U.S. and four regional powers and eventually dismantle its atomic weapons program.

Under the deal, the North will receive an initial 50,000 tons worth of aid in heavy fuel oil for shutting down and sealing its main nuclear reactor, to be confirmed by international inspectors, Chinese envoy Wu Dawei said. The North eventually will receive another 950,000 tons in aid for irreversibly disabling the reactor.

The agreement was read to all delegates in a conference room at a Chinese state guesthouse and Wu asked if there were any objections. When none were made, the officials all stood and applauded.

North Korea and United States also will embark on talks aimed at resolving disputes and restarting diplomatic relations, Wu said. The Korean peninsula has technically remained in a state of war for more than a half-century since the Korean War ended in a 1953 cease-fire.

The United States will begin the process of removing North Korea from its designation as a terror-sponsoring state and also on ending U.S. trade sanctions, but no deadlines was set, according to the agreement. Japan and North Korea also will seek to normalize relations, Wu said.

If Pyongyang follows through with its promises, they would be the first moves the communist nation has made to scale back its atomic development after more than three years of six-nation negotiations marked by delays, deadlock and the North's first nuclear test explosion in October.

Making sure that Pyongyang declares all its nuclear facilities and shuts them down is likely to prove arduous, nuclear experts have said.

North Korea has sidestepped previous agreements, allegedly running a uranium-based weapons program even as it froze a plutonium-based one — sparking the latest nuclear crisis in late 2002. The country is believed to have countless mountainside tunnels in which to hide projects.

After the initial 60 days, a joint meeting will be convened of foreign ministers from all countries at the talks — China, Japan, Russia, the United States and the two Koreas. Another meeting of the nuclear envoys was scheduled for March 19.

Under a 1994 U.S.-North Korea disarmament agreement, the North was to receive 500,000 tons of fuel oil a year before construction was completed of two nuclear reactors that would be able to generate 2 million kilowatts of electricity.

That deal fell apart in late 2002 when the U.S. accused the North of conducting a secret uranium enrichment program, sparking the latest nuclear crisis that led to the six-nation talks.

In September 2005, North Korea was promised energy aid and security guarantees in exchange for pledging to abandon its nuclear programs. But talks on implementing that agreement repeatedly stalled on other issues.



Apparently the Six Nations Talks have managed to convince N Korea to give up it's nuclear ambitions, removing at least one more avenue for Nuclear Holocaust. But at what cost?

We'll have to see if they follow through, it wouldn't be the first time the North starting playing nice just to stall for time and then go back to saber rattling to get more treats.

Apparently the Six Nations Talks have managed to convince N Korea to give up it's nuclear ambitions, removing at least one more avenue for Nuclear Holocaust. But at what cost?

I only see them talking about some nuclear power plant. I really don't give a crap about that. I don't understand why anybody else would. I only care about nuclear WEAPONS. Which don't seem to be mentioned at all. :confused:

I only see them talking about some nuclear power plant. I really don't give a crap about that. I don't understand why anybody else would. I only care about nuclear WEAPONS. Which don't seem to be mentioned at all. :confused:

Well I don't think they can produce enriched material for use in nuclear weapons if they don't have a reactor to produce it with.

I think maybe China stopped humming and hawing and gave some orders.

I think maybe China stopped humming and hawing and gave some orders.

I think China finally decided that the pros of having a nuclear catspaw no longer outweigh the cons of a more militarized Japan.

But that's my take on it.

"Under the deal, the North will receive an initial 50,000 tons worth of aid in heavy fuel oil. The North eventually will receive another 950,000 tons in aid for irreversibly disabling the reactor."

They're actually being rewarded for stopping something they never should have been doing in the first place.

I think China finally decided that the pros of having a nuclear catspaw no longer outweigh the cons of a more militarized Japan.

But that's my take on it.
It's not Japan they're worried about, it's a collapsed North Korea with refugees pouring across the border into China and them suddenly butting heads with the US on the border with South Korea that has them worried.

Nooooo Kim, you were my last hope.

You have the dancing girls, you have the grey uniforms for anyone above the rank of lunch monitor. You have a nuclear weapon which could seriously mess up anyone's quail hunt.

Now you want to sell it out for ... some oil?

Dude, Kim mate, straight from the poop deck of a fellow traveller, a comrade, a random fight-the-power nut like your dear daddy, don't do it.

Coal, mate. Coal. :nod:

"Under the deal, the North will receive an initial 50,000 tons worth of aid in heavy fuel oil. The North eventually will receive another 950,000 tons in aid for irreversibly disabling the reactor."

They're actually being rewarded for stopping something they never should have been doing in the first place.

Actually, since they never signed the NPT, they're being bribed not to do something they have every right to do.

"Under the deal, the North will receive an initial 50,000 tons worth of aid in heavy fuel oil. The North eventually will receive another 950,000 tons in aid for irreversibly disabling the reactor."

They're actually being rewarded for stopping something they never should have been doing in the first place.

Indeed, this bargain for Fuel aid and other amenities in return for an apparent stop to North Korea's nuclear ambitions is costly. This aid will continue to prop up the oppressive state apparatus and rejuvenate the nations conventional military. One of the main reasons that N Korea wants fuel aid specifically is so they have fuel to put into their armoured brigades tanks. From some reports, military vehicles in N Korea can be found lying by the roadside simply because they can't spare the fuel.

"Under the deal, the North will receive an initial 50,000 tons worth of aid in heavy fuel oil. The North eventually will receive another 950,000 tons in aid for irreversibly disabling the reactor."

They're actually being rewarded for stopping something they never should have been doing in the first place.
Which is exactly what they wanted, and probably why they did this nuclear test in the first place.

It's not Japan they're worried about, it's a collapsed North Korea with refugees pouring across the border into China and them suddenly butting heads with the US on the border with South Korea that has them worried.

I don't think NK will collapse...short of a full-fledged U.S. invasion.

I don't think a U.S. invasion will occur...short of NK aggression against SK.

I don't think NK will attack SK...not while China remains their main sponsor.

China will continue to prop up NK for as long as they have to...long after Kim Jong-Il is dead and gone they'll be supporting them. The refugee aspect is certainly part of it, as is U.S. presence in SK, but those factors are dependent upon NK collapsing.

As I said, I do not think that will ever happen unless NK's leader goes insane, ignores his sponsors, and starts shelling Seoul.

"Under the deal, the North will receive an initial 50,000 tons worth of aid in heavy fuel oil. The North eventually will receive another 950,000 tons in aid for irreversibly disabling the reactor."

They're actually being rewarded for stopping something they never should have been doing in the first place.

North Korea has as much right to a nuclear program as the US, Russia, France, China, India or Pakistan. :rolleyes:

Actually, since they never signed the NPT, they're being bribed not to do something they have every right to do.

Indeed.

The issue here was negotiating to find a solution which could be acceptable to everyone. Apparently that's been done. Good. Let's hope the agreement is now actually implemented.

They're actually being rewarded for stopping something they never should have been doing in the first place.

They're well within their rights to make a nuclear program. Most other Western nations have a large nuclear program, especially the US. Why have they got the right?

Well, it seems like NK is a good deal better at International Politics than I thought, I was certain they were just slowly hanging themselves until now.

You know what I would like to see.

I know this is a pipe dream, but here it goes:

I would like to see the biggest baddest toughtest nations go to North Korea and demand a stop to the human rights abuses.

That's right. I don't give a flying fuck at a rolling donut whether or not North Korea has the capability of putting a mushroom cloud over South Korea. What I want to see is an end to the horrible living conditions that many North Koreans face every day.

But people don't even talk about it. Everyone is far more concerned with the nature of their weaponry.

Sad.

Im quite sceptical about this, even if N-Korea shut's down that reactor then there is no way to make sure that they disarm nukes that they already have.

I would like to see the biggest baddest toughtest nations go to North Korea and demand a stop to the human rights abuses.
But people don't even talk about it. Everyone is far more concerned with the nature of their weaponry.

Sad.

Perhaps because the war that would ensue would be disastrous for everyone involved.

Just a thought.

.. for stopping something they never should have been doing in the first place.why not?

Perhaps because the war that would ensue would be disastrous for everyone involved.

Just a thought.

War is not the only possible method. Sanctions have been used against North Korea before. In fact, all the methods that the western powers are attempting to use against NK's nuclear programme could be also used against NK's human rights abuses.

But no one cares.

Sanctions have been used against North Korea before.

Given that 1/3rd of the North Korean population survives only thanks to international aid, sanctions would be catastrophic.

I am grossly appalled by this agreement.

North Korea has done the same thing over and over again, and keeps being rewarded for it. Do something bad, get lots of oil and supplies. Break that agreement then make a new one to get more oil and supplies. Break that one and make another to get more supplies. Break that, get more supplies…

It is a never ending source of free oil because we are just chumps to be taken advantage of and in no way deserving respect.

They got a lot of fuel and aid in return for not having a nuclear program; they accepted the payment but continued in secret. Eventually they run into a snag and need some time to rethink, so they reveal their program, get a little finger wagging by other nations, and then lots more goodies while they figure out the problem. Then they continue the program in secret, have a few problems they need to rethink plus want to do some bragging so they leak the program, get some finger-wagging, and now a million tons of fuel.

Who honestly believes that this is going to stop?

We continually feed their huge army and fuel their tanks and planes. Why?

It is complete stupidity.

I think China finally decided that the pros of having a nuclear catspaw no longer outweigh the cons of a more militarized Japan.

But that's my take on it.

I'd concur with that analysis. At least from China's point of view.

Given that 1/3rd of the North Korean population survives only thanks to international aid, sanctions would be catastrophic.


Then why does North Korea keep getting sanctions?

And why does the West support these sanctions?

And why are sanctions an intelligent response to nuclear weaponry, but not human rights abuses?

Humans are less important than nuclear weapons. Again.

And why are sanctions an intelligent response to nuclear weaponry, but not human rights abuses?
I dont know..
Have they tried Sanctions/trade-embargo against Israel or Pakistan human rights violations?

I dont know..
Have they tried Sanctions/trade-embargo against Israel or Pakistan human rights violations?

If we go by human rights abuses, Israel is the last country in the Middle East that would get sanctions.

Lo and behold! Tis IDF, Grand Protector of Israel to the rescue!
The moment I saw Israel being mentioned, I knew you'd turn up. I wouldn't say Israel is particularly scant on human rights myself.

I am grossly appalled by this agreement.


And you would advocate... what, exactly?

If we go by human rights abuses, Israel is the last country in the Middle East that would get sanctions.

Jordan commits more human rights abuses than Israel? :confused:

North Korea has as much right to a nuclear program as the US, Russia, France, China, India or Pakistan. :rolleyes:
i.e. none

You are in favour of nuclear disarment, right? Or only when the country in question is allied with the USA?

They're well within their rights to make a nuclear program. Most other Western nations have a large nuclear program, especially the US. Why have they got the right?
And you support the West's nuclear programmes? I doubt it, but I suppose it's OK if the country is not an ally of America?

Most people, even on the left are such hypocrites. Is nobody universally against nuclear weapons?

"Under the deal, the North will receive an initial 50,000 tons worth of aid in heavy fuel oil. The North eventually will receive another 950,000 tons in aid for irreversibly disabling the reactor."

They're actually being rewarded for stopping something they never should have been doing in the first place.

It's called negotiation, welcome to the real world.

And why does the West support these sanctions?
The West, and especially the US, likes its dick waving contests.

The BBC has a rather interesting article (here (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6357853.stm)).


US administrations have a tendency to start from scratch in their dealings with North Korea - and then relearn, step by step, the tortuous lessons taught to their predecessors.

Prominent members of US President George W Bush's administration make no secret of their contempt for a previous nuclear deal signed by the Clinton administration with North Korea in 1994.

Now, after years of confrontation, they have signed up to something that looks suspiciously similar - a nuclear freeze in return for economic and diplomatic incentives.

The difference is that North Korea now claims to be a nuclear power, having used the period of hostility to test a nuclear device and build a small arsenal of weapons.

[...]

"After years of mistakes the United States has decided to stop digging a hole for itself," says Peter Beck, North-East Asia Director of the International Crisis group.

[...]

There will also be discussions on the establishment of diplomatic relations and the de-listing of North Korea as a state that sponsors terrorism.

The idea is to stagger the rewards in line with concrete North Korean steps towards nuclear disarmament.

[...]

In Seoul, there is relief that the US has gradually moderated its position.

[...]

One of the architects of the more punitive approach, however, the former US Ambassador to the United Nations, John Bolton, does not like what he sees.

"I'm very disturbed by this deal, it sends exactly the wrong signal to would-be proliferators around the world: If you hold out long enough, wear down the State Department negotiators, eventually you get rewarded," he told CNN.


And what would Bolton suggest, then? Continue failed tactics rather than ones which appear to be working?

And you would advocate... what, exactly?

Instead of the endless cycle of 'stop misbehaving and we'll give you goodies' - NK takes goodies then misbehaves' - 'stop misbehaving and we'll give you goodies' - takes goodies, laughs at our idiocy, misbehaves again, how about we just say 'stop misbehaving or we will stop giving you goodies'?

We make sure that no matter what he does, Kim knows at least the army will be fed and provided for by us, so there is no real incentive to do anything. Threaten to cut off the free food and supplies and he might listen.

Apparently this is quite similar to the Agreed Framework of the Clinton years.


This is a two-phase agreement where DPRK can give up nothing and get limited aid in the first phase and then delay forever on the second, demanding aid before it gives anything else up.

Called extortion, is the point of their nuke program.

i.e. none

You are in favour of nuclear disarment, right? Or only when the country in question is allied with the USA?


And you support the West's nuclear programmes? I doubt it, but I suppose it's OK if the country is not an ally of America?

Most people, even on the left are such hypocrites. Is nobody universally against nuclear weapons?

In all honesty, no, I'm not. I'm not even against proliferation, mainly because I don't especially like pointless struggles that cannot succeed.

Nukes are directly responsible for our past fifty years of relative peace in the world. The US and USSR could never directly oppose each other in the Cold War. Pakistan and India have just discovered that their continued conflict is untenable. Where both sides have nukes, war becomes impossible.

Eh... this is surely a ploy from the North Koreans. Honestly, after their strongly defiant stance against the world by test launching their missiles, why would they back down from this?

Because they have everything to gain because America/UN is involved. The obligatory IAEA groups and UN inspectors will begin to run around PRNK looking for any sort of radiation, and then when Kim Jong-Il (or is it Il-Jong?) decides to ramp up his program again, the UN will start passing resolutions, they'll deny access to key locations, the UN will keep passing resolutions, North Korea will announce new nuclear programs, the UN will pass more resolutions... and after millions of pounds of food, water, and oil are pumped into PRNK (which will also be absorbed by the corrupt govt.), theyll turn their backs on the agreement and then the cycle will begin again.

don't you just LOVE rogue nations?

i.e. none

You are in favour of nuclear disarment, right? Or only when the country in question is allied with the USA?

I am 100% in favour of nuclear disarmament. Additionally I would say Russia and China aren't allied with the USA, moderately friendly, but not allied. I really don't give a shit about who a government considers it's friends, I personally, or Microsoft, or New York City, or Sealand, or the Olsen twins have as much right to own nuclear weapons as the US or North Korean governments do.

There's situations where nukes are useful and may constitute a lesser evil, but ultimately no one (person, corporation or state) has any right to them.

North Korea has as much right to a nuclear program as the US, Russia, France, China, India or Pakistan. :rolleyes:

NK hasn't. They signed the NPT and broke it, so they certainly don't have the right.