NationStates Jolt Archive

You know, I usually think of myself as a calm easy going guy, you do your thing, I do my thing and as long as you don't cross me or do wrong to me, I'm a pretty decent guy to get along with. However, the Cabarrus County School District has been able to royalty piss me off today, which is quite an accomplishment. If you ever want to know why I'm anti-social, why I have a HUGE distrust and dislike of humanity, and why I tend to be this cynical guy who rarely lets anyone into his walls, well here is a pretty damn good example.

Ok, so I applied for the substitute teaching job, because I need money and I plan on taking a trip to WA with Kay in June. So, I apply for the job, I do all the paperwork, get a physical etc. However, they've been dragging their feet on putting me into the system and on the list. So after several phone calls, talking to several people, I decided to go down to their office today. I talked to a woman and a male. In the meeting, I finally found out why they've been dragging their feet. Apparently they have a problem with my speech impediment. Yes I do have a slight speech impediment, but damn it all, every time I talk to these assholes, on the phone or in person, I've always spoke clearly, slowly and made a conscious effort to make sure they understood me. Of course this did not sit well with me, and then the male asshole basically said that they were just trying to cover their own asses, and would have to speak to his attorney before we could do anything. Well, I just told them that we're done here and walked out before we could finish the meeting.

If they want to play this game, fine, we'll play. If they want to act like discriminating assholes, then fine, we'll play that game too. If they want to contact their attorney, fine, we'll contact ours. We'll take these self serving assholes to court and make them pay out of their nose. If they think they can discriminate against me because I'm 'handicapped' and have a slight speech impediment, well, they're going to learn differently.

Oh, I should also mention that the family's attorney also represent Nextel Cup drivers like Richard Petty, Dale Earnhart Jr. and several others.

God I hate people.

So, what, a stutter, a lisp? How would you transpose it into typing?

There are certain sounds I cannot pronounce as well.

So, what, a stutter, a lisp? How would you transpose it into typing?

you may not have much of a case. It depends on the level of your impediment, and what you will be required to do.

Employers ARE allowed to discriminate against the disabled IF that disability causes them to reasonably believe that it would prevent them from doing their job.

If you have a bad speech impediment, it may prevent you from communcating clearly and effectively (note, I say might). Moreover, even if this is false, they might reasonably believe it to be true.

Not saying it doesn't suck, but sometimes things like this are permissable.

Without knowing the actual severity of the speech inpediment, assuming it makes it hard for people to understand you, they would rather employ someone who the kids will actually be able to understand and communicate with easily.

So it's more about how qualified you are for the job, if you arn't suitable you arn't suitable. They arn't doing it because they hate you or want to discriminate you (why would they want to do that?)

This is assuming it is hard to understand you.

you may not have much of a case. It depends on the level of your impediment, and what you will be required to do.

Employers ARE allowed to discriminate against the disabled IF that disability causes them to reasonably believe that it would prevent them from doing their job.

If you have a bad speech impediment, it may prevent you from communcating clearly and effectively (note, I say might). Moreover, even if this is false, they might reasonably believe it to be true.

Not saying it doesn't suck, but sometimes things like this are permissable.

So basically when I fill out any reemployment form, the part about not discriminating against race, sex, sexual orientation, religion, or disability is pretty much bunk?

say that all people of the wilgrovian race talk this way (make up some fake middle Asian ancestry as well), then have some tragic microwave + powdered milk accident and take it to court

Yes I have been watching pinky and the brain

So basically when I fill out any reemployment form, the part about not discriminating against race, sex, sexual orientation, religion, or disability is pretty much bunk?

they can not unfairly do so. They can do so if there is legitimate reason. If your disability prevents you from doing the job, they can refuse to hire you, not because you are disabled, but because you can not do it.

My speech problem really isn't that bad, Hell I talk to Air Traffic Controllers all the time and they never had a problem understanding me, nor anyone else I come in contact with. They do notice the slight impediment but they can usually get what I was trying to say when I can't pronounce those sounds. So no I don't think this speech problem of mine will hinder me in doing my work.

they can not unfairly do so. They can do so if there is legitimate reason. If your disability prevents you from doing the job, they can refuse to hire you, not because you are disabled, but because you can not do it.

kinda like trucking companies don't hire blind truck drivers......

gee wilgrove what kind of example would it set for the students if someone with a slight speech impediment should be substitute teacher? what if they got the impression that it might be OK to "talk funny"? what if they decided that it was possible to overcome obstacles in their own lives? what if they got used to treating people who are a bit different from everyone else as being as GOOD as everyone else?

why dont you think of the children?

[/sarcasm]

My speech problem really isn't that bad, Hell I talk to Air Traffic Controllers all the time and they never had a problem understanding me, nor anyone else I come in contact with. They do notice the slight impediment but they can usually get what I was trying to say when I can't pronounce those sounds. So no I don't think this speech problem of mine will hinder me in doing my work.

It's impossible to really make a judgement without knowing exactly what your speech impediment is like.

So basically when I fill out any reemployment form, the part about not discriminating against race, sex, sexual orientation, religion, or disability is pretty much bunk?

There are limitations. Is is discrimination to deny someone in a wheelchair a job that involves lifting heavy boxes on and off trucks? Yes. Is it permissable? Yes. Their disability would make it impossible for them to do their job in a reasonable manner.

Without actually knowing your impediment or the full story, I'm comfortable saying you could have a difficult, if not unwinnable, fight.

kinda like trucking companies don't hire blind truck drivers......

or deaf stenographers. Basically, yes. If your disability prevents you from doing a job they can refuse to hire you, not because you are disabled, but because your disability has rendered you unable to do the job.

In these situations, you are not hired because you can't do it. Nobody ever said an employee has to hire someone who can't do the job.

As for this situation, it would be impossible to say without knowing the extent of it.

gee wilgrove what kind of example would it set for the students if someone with a slight speech impediment should be substitute teacher? what if they got the impression that it might be OK to "talk funny"? what if they decided that it was possible to overcome obstacles in their own lives? what if they got used to treating people who are a bit different from everyone else as being as GOOD as everyone else?

why dont you think of the children?

[/sarcasm]

A teacher needs to be able to communicate clearly, efficiently, and effectively to their students. Their job is to teach. So yes, think of the children. They are the ones who need to be educated. If (and that remains an "if" untill there is some kind of evidence otherwise) his impediment is bad enough that it prevents clear, efficient, and effective communication, then no, he should not be placed in the position of an educator. If it isn't, then fine. Hire him.

I do seem to remember that this is not Wilgroves first time being told that his impediment would get in the way of him being a teacher, however. Take that as you will.

or deaf stenographers. Basically, yes. If your disability prevents you from doing a job they can refuse to hire you, not because you are disabled, but because your disability has rendered you unable to do the job.

In these situations, you are not hired because you can't do it. Nobody ever said an employee has to hire someone who can't do the job.

As for this situation, it would be impossible to say without knowing the extent of it.

Public Law 94-142 (Americans with Disabilities Act) states that reasonable accomodations must be attempted in order to ensure that someone with a disability has a chance to do what is required of them for the job in question. Said accomodations must be reasonable both to the person and the employer.

If no accomodation can be made because of the nature of either the disability or the job, then the person is not required by law to be hired.

Public Law 94-142 (Americans with Disabilities Act) states that reasonable accomodations must be attempted in order to ensure that someone with a disability has a chance to do what is required of them for the job in question. Said accomodations must be reasonable both to the person and the employer.

If no accomodation can be made because of the nature of either the disability or the job, then the person is not required by law to be hired.

true, but the point still stands. If your disability has rendered you UNABLE TO DO THE JOB then it is not discriminatory to refuse to hire you.

A stenographer in a wheel chair can do her job if reasonable accomodations are made to help her get into a courthouse.

A stenographer with no hands can not.

No accomodation will lessen a speech impediment.

So basically when I fill out any reemployment form, the part about not discriminating against race, sex, sexual orientation, religion, or disability is pretty much bunk?

No, not really. It's illegal to discriminate for race, sex, religion, or disability. Unless the disability prevents you from doing your job. Though I also assume you could use that as an out for religion too. I mean, you wouldn't hire a Jew or Muslim to work at a hog slaughter house.

So basically when I fill out any reemployment form, the part about not discriminating against race, sex, sexual orientation, religion, or disability is pretty much bunk?

What grade do you want to teach? As long as you are able to be easily understood and you're not teaching kids that are still learning to talk I think you have a case. My brother has a speech impediment that, while obvious, does not interfere with his ability to communicate so I kinda know what you're talking about. He has a pronouncation problem, too. It's not a stutter or lisp or tick. I don't quite know how to describe it, but people understand him easily and they rarely ask him to repeat himself.

gee wilgrove what kind of example would it set for the students if someone with a slight speech impediment should be substitute teacher? what if they got the impression that it might be OK to "talk funny"? what if they decided that it was possible to overcome obstacles in their own lives? what if they got used to treating people who are a bit different from everyone else as being as GOOD as everyone else?

why dont you think of the children?

[/sarcasm]

:fluffle:

true, but the point still stands. If your disability has rendered you UNABLE TO DO THE JOB then it is not discriminatory to refuse to hire you.

A stenographer in a wheel chair can do her job if reasonable accomodations are made to help her get into a courthouse.

A stenographer with no hands can not.

No accomodation will lessen a speech impediment.

Uh...dude, I was agreeing with you. But thanks for re-making your point which I re-made already...;)

A teacher needs to be able to communicate clearly, efficiently, and effectively to their students. Their job is to teach. So yes, think of the children. They are the ones who need to be educated. If (and that remains an "if" untill there is some kind of evidence otherwise) his impediment is bad enough that it prevents clear, efficient, and effective communication, then no, he should not be placed in the position of an educator. If it isn't, then fine. Hire him.

I do seem to remember that this is not Wilgroves first time being told that his impediment would get in the way of him being a teacher, however. Take that as you will.

My college professors are some of the most eloquent people I've known, but they still can't teach for shit. I learned more in high school than this stupid shit. :mad:

My college professors are some of the most eloquent people I've known, but they still can't teach for shit. I learned more in high school than this stupid shit. :mad:

yes, there are other requirements for a good teacher. But being able to communicate is at the top of the list

There are certain sounds I cannot pronounce as well.

Oh, well, both my brother and my sister had that kind of problem as well, though thankfully some speech therapy--over several years--solved it. If it's anything like theirs, then you have a definite case here, because that kind of impediment is more of annoyance than anything else, and certainly doesn't make you all that much more difficult to understand. I never had problems understanding my brother or sister when they spoke beforehand. In fact the speech therapy was mostly for their emotional benefit than anything else as they were often mocked because of the impediment.

That's retarded. Because I know I've had teachers with totally ununderstandable voices, so unless you're a mute or can't speak english this is bullshit.

So basically when I fill out any reemployment form, the part about not discriminating against race, sex, sexual orientation, religion, or disability is pretty much bunk?

If you are missing an arm, I wouldn't start applying to jobs that require heavy lifting if I were you. Your speech impediment was obviously severe enough that it was notable when deliberately speaking "clearly, slowly and [making] a conscious effort to make sure they understood" you. What happens when you arn't making such a significant effort? Have you ever been in a classroom before? The deliberateness would last about as far as an introduction.

If you are missing an arm, I wouldn't start applying to jobs that require heavy lifting if I were you. Your speech impediment was obviously severe enough that it was notable when deliberately speaking "clearly, slowly and [making] a conscious effort to make sure they understood" you. What happens when you arn't making such a significant effort? Have you ever been in a classroom before? The deliberateness would last about as far as an introduction.

You know what would solve this? If Wilgrove recorded himself speaking a few ordinary sentences and posted it for us to listen to, we could help him truly determine whether he has a case or no case.

You know what would solve this? If Wilgrove recorded himself speaking a few ordinary sentences and posted it for us to listen to, we could help him truly determine whether he has a case or no case.

That's actually not a bad idea.

But just wondering (and not meaning to insult you, though I probably am anyway), is this the same kind of speech impediment that Pilate and Biggus Dickus had in Life of Brian?
Cause if it is, you definitally have a case.

Oh, I should also mention that the family's attorney also represent Nextel Cup drivers like Richard Petty, Dale Earnhart Jr. and several others.

God I hate people.
Sorry to hear of your problem.
Are their Sharks for when they crash into each other?

You know what would solve this? If Wilgrove recorded himself speaking a few ordinary sentences and posted it for us to listen to, we could help him truly determine whether he has a case or no case.

Yeah. Wilgrove, if you can upload a clip of yourself saying 'she sells sea shells on the sea shore' as fast as you can a few times we'll see how bad your impediment is.

That sucks

Can you picture the scene - 'Stephen Hawking lecture cancelled - teachers claim he was too hard to understand'

Just because some people have a problem with your words it does not make them any less important

Far as I am concerned, a speech impediment is no worse than a teacher from a foreign country. I supervised a Canadian prac teacher once, and the kids had more trouble understanding her than the deaf kids. All it comes down to is experience on the part of both. Once the kids get used to Wilgrove's way, they'll understand him just fine.

You know, I usually think of myself as a calm easy going guy, you do your thing, I do my thing and as long as you don't cross me or do wrong to me, I'm a pretty decent guy to get along with. However, the Cabarrus County School District has been able to royalty piss me off today, which is quite an accomplishment. If you ever want to know why I'm anti-social, why I have a HUGE distrust and dislike of humanity, and why I tend to be this cynical guy who rarely lets anyone into his walls, well here is a pretty damn good example.

Ok, so I applied for the substitute teaching job, because I need money and I plan on taking a trip to WA with Kay in June. So, I apply for the job, I do all the paperwork, get a physical etc. However, they've been dragging their feet on putting me into the system and on the list. So after several phone calls, talking to several people, I decided to go down to their office today. I talked to a woman and a male. In the meeting, I finally found out why they've been dragging their feet. Apparently they have a problem with my speech impediment. Yes I do have a slight speech impediment, but damn it all, every time I talk to these assholes, on the phone or in person, I've always spoke clearly, slowly and made a conscious effort to make sure they understood me. Of course this did not sit well with me, and then the male asshole basically said that they were just trying to cover their own asses, and would have to speak to his attorney before we could do anything. Well, I just told them that we're done here and walked out before we could finish the meeting.

If they want to play this game, fine, we'll play. If they want to act like discriminating assholes, then fine, we'll play that game too. If they want to contact their attorney, fine, we'll contact ours. We'll take these self serving assholes to court and make them pay out of their nose. If they think they can discriminate against me because I'm 'handicapped' and have a slight speech impediment, well, they're going to learn differently.

Oh, I should also mention that the family's attorney also represent Nextel Cup drivers like Richard Petty, Dale Earnhart Jr. and several others.

God I hate people.

What do you expect them to do? Send home letters to the parents with details of a lawyer who'll be more than happy to sue the school into oblivion for hiring a sub. teacher with a speech impediment?

You know, I usually think of myself as a calm easy going guy, you do your thing, I do my thing and as long as you don't cross me or do wrong to me, I'm a pretty decent guy to get along with. However, the Cabarrus County School District has been able to royalty piss me off today, which is quite an accomplishment. If you ever want to know why I'm anti-social, why I have a HUGE distrust and dislike of humanity, and why I tend to be this cynical guy who rarely lets anyone into his walls, well here is a pretty damn good example.

Ok, so I applied for the substitute teaching job, because I need money and I plan on taking a trip to WA with Kay in June. So, I apply for the job, I do all the paperwork, get a physical etc. However, they've been dragging their feet on putting me into the system and on the list. So after several phone calls, talking to several people, I decided to go down to their office today. I talked to a woman and a male. In the meeting, I finally found out why they've been dragging their feet. Apparently they have a problem with my speech impediment. Yes I do have a slight speech impediment, but damn it all, every time I talk to these assholes, on the phone or in person, I've always spoke clearly, slowly and made a conscious effort to make sure they understood me. Of course this did not sit well with me, and then the male asshole basically said that they were just trying to cover their own asses, and would have to speak to his attorney before we could do anything. Well, I just told them that we're done here and walked out before we could finish the meeting.

If they want to play this game, fine, we'll play. If they want to act like discriminating assholes, then fine, we'll play that game too. If they want to contact their attorney, fine, we'll contact ours. We'll take these self serving assholes to court and make them pay out of their nose. If they think they can discriminate against me because I'm 'handicapped' and have a slight speech impediment, well, they're going to learn differently.

Oh, I should also mention that the family's attorney also represent Nextel Cup drivers like Richard Petty, Dale Earnhart Jr. and several others.

God I hate people.


On the one hand you should fight these people all the way on the other I am confussed. As a self confessed anti social, cynical, hater of your own race, why the hell did you apply for a job at a school?

So looking at both hands, and mashing them all up together I'm left with the conclusion, that you choose to apply, therefore you choose to put your slf in this position, therefore you only have yourself to balme.

Sorry but that's the way I see it.