NationStates Jolt Archive

I find myself with a bit of a conundrum and I am turning to the collective wisdom of NSGeneral (stop that snickering) for advice.

My wife is currently stay-at-home due to the small amount of time we'll be in Japan before returning to the US and being pregnant. She feels that, being brought up to be a proper Japanese wife, she should perform all household chores including cooking and cleaning.

I; however, being a modern American guy (and one who likes to cook) have insisted that on the weekends, she should get a break from housework and I should cook.

Our current debate is who should wash the dishes on the weekend. Her position is that SHE should be the one scrubbing in the hot water due to the fact that I was the one who cooked the food. Furthermore, it matters not that she cooks and cleans on the weekdays because I am the one bringing home the bacon.

I think that this is unfair in that she cooks and cleans all though the week and still does the bulk of the chores on the weekend. Therefore it is only fair that I at least cook and clean up the mess (and I'm a very messy cook, a good one, but messy) that I have made of the kitchen.

Since we have come to an impasse on who's cleaning, she asked me to toss this question out to you all. So, who should be doing them dishes?

You're arguing over who gets to do the dishes? :eek:

Wise man say buy dishwasher or enslave local peasant girl to carry out task.

Let her do the dishes and as payment offer to give her a foot massage.
Being pregnant, she'd appreciate that more than you doing the dishes.

The cook should never wash up, unless they're supremely messy of course.

We agreed ages ago that the one who didn't cook does the dishes... but then neither of us is at home all week.
I'd say if you're working all week, and she does the chores all week, just share them on weekends.

You're arguing over who gets to do the dishes? :eek:
Yes, I know. I'm shaking my head over this one too.

I find myself with a bit of a conundrum and I am turning to the collective wisdom of NSGeneral (stop that snickering) for advice.

My wife is currently stay-at-home due to the small amount of time we'll be in Japan before returning to the US and being pregnant. She feels that, being brought up to be a proper Japanese wife, she should perform all household chores including cooking and cleaning.

I; however, being a modern American guy (and one who likes to cook) have insisted that on the weekends, she should get a break from housework and I should cook.

Our current debate is who should wash the dishes on the weekend. Her position is that SHE should be the one scrubbing in the hot water due to the fact that I was the one who cooked the food. Furthermore, it matters not that she cooks and cleans on the weekdays because I am the one bringing home the bacon.

I think that this is unfair in that she cooks and cleans all though the week and still does the bulk of the chores on the weekend. Therefore it is only fair that I at least cook and clean up the mess (and I'm a very messy cook, a good one, but messy) that I have made of the kitchen.

Since we have come to an impasse on who's cleaning, she asked me to toss this question out to you all. So, who should be doing them dishes?

During the week you work at school and she works at home. On the weekends I say split it. Helps her feel needed. ;)

You're arguing over who gets to do the dishes? :eek:

Welcome to our world.

Wise man say buy dishwasher or enslave local peasant girl to carry out task.

He already did the later. ;) (Grins, ducks, and runs for the hills....)

compromise solution: a robot. they've got them there, don't they?

We agreed ages ago that the one who didn't cook does the dishes... but then neither of us is at home all week.
I'd say if you're working all week, and she does the chores all week, just share them on weekends.
That's what I'm saying. She's still doing the laundry and other bits, so it's only fair that I cook and do the dishes.

Wise man say buy dishwasher or enslave local peasant girl to carry out task.

QFT.

During the week you work at school and she works at home. On the weekends I say split it. Helps her feel needed. ;)
She's already started grumbling about how immigrants are coming into Japan and stealing jobs. ;)

Let her do the dishes and as payment offer to give her a foot massage.
Being pregnant, she'd appreciate that more than you doing the dishes.

Bingo, we have a winner.

compromise solution: a robot. they've got them there, don't they?

Yeah - they're called salarymen and office ladies. (Good thing this is not 2chan - I'd be ashed already...)

compromise solution: a robot. they've got them there, don't they?
I don't think they have dishwashing ones though. Heck, dishwashers are just really coming into the market place.

Yeah - they're called salarymen and office ladies. (Good thing this is not 2chan - I'd be ashed already...)
You're gonna get yourself roasted here soon. :D

Who should wash the dishes?The dishwasher of course. :rolleyes: Why would anybody still do the dishes manually? No human can clean dishes at 65°C.

The dishwasher of course. :rolleyes: Why would anybody still do the dishes manually? No human can clean dishes at 65°C.
My wife is convinced that washing dishes by hand builds the spirit of a woman (Her exact words).

She's already started grumbling about how immigrants are coming into Japan and stealing jobs. ;)

Excellent. She'll fit in just fine back in the states, as long as she transfers the prejudices appropriately.

I don't think they have dishwashing ones though. Heck, dishwashers are just really coming into the market place.

Hmm.... I'll stop before I go toooo far... ;)

Hmm.... I'll stop before I go toooo far... ;)
*Pulls out a Harisen* Probably a good idea. ;)

You're gonna get yourself roasted here soon. :D

Sunday evening fun
One too many Can Chu Hai
Dai gets into hot water

My wife is convinced that washing dishes by hand builds the spirit of a woman (Her exact words).Then I suppose your wife has nothing meaningful to do in her life?
And rather than having a woman build her "spirit of a woman" I rather have clean dishes. And as long as she doesn't beat the dishwasher in the quality of dish washing performance she'd be out of that job. :rolleyes:

Then I suppose your wife has nothing meaningful to do in her life?
And rather than having a woman build her "spirit of a woman" I rather have clean dishes. And as long as she doesn't beat the dishwasher in the quality of dish washing performance she'd be out of that job. :rolleyes:
Actually she does given that dishwashers in Japan aren't that great.

Yes, I know. I'm shaking my head over this one too.

Just count yourself fortunate to be in a relationship of that quality and roll with it. *nods*

Actually she does given that dishwashers in Japan aren't that great.What?? I thought Japan was the forefront of technology? I have one from Siemens, and there is no way that I would ever clean my dishes as good as the machine does. And, you know, my goal is to have clean dishes, building spirits through that is something I consider a complete waste of time. I don't get
younger, you know.
Same issue with folks not having electric toothbrushes.... :rolleyes:

I know it completely defies what people see as convention but in my friends flat, the one who cooked always did the dishes. It meant that the night you cooked you had to do a fair bit of work, but it also meant you were way more weary about the mess you made because you also had to clean it up.

This only came about because one of the girls who lived there felt the need to turn the kitchen upside down to make anything.


So errr in response to the OP: Let her do it if she really wants.

What?? I thought Japan was the forefront of technology?

Oooh. Ya hit the nail on the head there. That's one of the big myths about Japan. At least as far as most ordinary everyday day-to-day type applications of high-tech go, the average Japanese household's about 5-10 years behind the curve compared to the US. Somethings more, somethings less, but overall behind.

(I might take up the nothing meaningful comment later, when I have a bit more time, if N doesn't...)

Oooh. Ya hit the nail on the head there. That's one of the big myths about Japan. At least as far as most ordinary everyday day-to-day type applications of high-tech go, the average Japanese household's about 5-10 years behind the curve compared to the US. Somethings more, somethings less, but overall behind.

(I might take up the nothing meaningful comment later, when I have a bit more time, if N doesn't...)A dishwasher is not exactly high-tech, and I suppose dish washers already are around longer than just 5-10 years.

I can tell you this much: My stupid-ass neighbor across the hall really shouldn't have.
That's what woke me up today. B!tch!!! :upyours:

She has the nasty habit to leave her apartment door open and thus let me partake in her noise. :mad:

Luckily, I know she doesn't like Metal, and for me, there's nothing better than Metal when I wake up grumpy - so after about 30 seconds into the first Motörhead tune, that door was closed. :D

As for an answer to your question - Who are you to argue with your wife? She's always right. Has nobody ever told you that? :p

I find myself with a bit of a conundrum and I am turning to the collective wisdom of NSGeneral (stop that snickering) for advice.

My wife is currently stay-at-home due to the small amount of time we'll be in Japan before returning to the US and being pregnant. She feels that, being brought up to be a proper Japanese wife, she should perform all household chores including cooking and cleaning.

I; however, being a modern American guy (and one who likes to cook) have insisted that on the weekends, she should get a break from housework and I should cook.

Our current debate is who should wash the dishes on the weekend. Her position is that SHE should be the one scrubbing in the hot water due to the fact that I was the one who cooked the food. Furthermore, it matters not that she cooks and cleans on the weekdays because I am the one bringing home the bacon.

I think that this is unfair in that she cooks and cleans all though the week and still does the bulk of the chores on the weekend. Therefore it is only fair that I at least cook and clean up the mess (and I'm a very messy cook, a good one, but messy) that I have made of the kitchen.

Since we have come to an impasse on who's cleaning, she asked me to toss this question out to you all. So, who should be doing them dishes?

wash them together. ;)

If it helps any, I wash all the dishes and cook during the week, and hubby cooks on Saturday and I still do the dishes. If there is a day when I am sick or something he will pick up the slack without being asked. I don't think it's "my job" to do the dishes any more than it's "his job" to mow the lawn, but it seems that it always ends up that way.

Actually, the answer to your question is, if nothing else, walk up and grab a teatowel when she's washing and start drying them and putting them away.

why not split it - one does the washing up, the other does the drying up. unless you just let the dishe dry on the rack, then i don't know, maybe you need to start doing drying up just for the sake of being equitable.

A dishwasher is not exactly high-tech, and I suppose dish washers already are around longer than just 5-10 years.

dishwashers are pretty expensive. i don't have one in my flat. and my mum never had one until i moved out and wasn't there to wash the dishes.

Why don't you do the dishes together? One of you wash, the other dries.

let your wife do the dishes.

while you should really do them yourself or do them together, if she isnt "down with that" you should let her have her way. there is no sense in making her feel bad when you are trying to make her life easier.

you can do some of the collateral work. clean up a bit while you cook. clear the table maybe. straighten up the apartment a bit while she scrubs the pots. nothing too obvious that she might take as unspoken criticism.

over the course of time she will come to appreciate you doing some of the housework. be open for opportunities to take up a bit of the load. the more you pick up after yourself the less work she has to do. some day when she is read for it take over an entire category of housework. like always being the one who does the dishes or the laundry.

I find myself with a bit of a conundrum and I am turning to the collective wisdom of NSGeneral (stop that snickering) for advice.

My wife is currently stay-at-home due to the small amount of time we'll be in Japan before returning to the US and being pregnant. She feels that, being brought up to be a proper Japanese wife, she should perform all household chores including cooking and cleaning.

I; however, being a modern American guy (and one who likes to cook) have insisted that on the weekends, she should get a break from housework and I should cook.

Our current debate is who should wash the dishes on the weekend. Her position is that SHE should be the one scrubbing in the hot water due to the fact that I was the one who cooked the food. Furthermore, it matters not that she cooks and cleans on the weekdays because I am the one bringing home the bacon.

I think that this is unfair in that she cooks and cleans all though the week and still does the bulk of the chores on the weekend. Therefore it is only fair that I at least cook and clean up the mess (and I'm a very messy cook, a good one, but messy) that I have made of the kitchen.

Since we have come to an impasse on who's cleaning, she asked me to toss this question out to you all. So, who should be doing them dishes?

I would love for someone else to wash up, especially when I am indisposed. However, knowing the culture of Japan, you are very unlikely to convince her that she should take it easy unless she is actually bedridden. However, maybe you can both do together -- if you wash and she dries, you can have some fun and conversation wth it. (By the way, the I wash and you dry idea comes from my fiance who is sitting about two feet away from me.) ;)

I find myself with a bit of a conundrum and I am turning to the collective wisdom of NSGeneral (stop that snickering) for advice.

My wife is currently stay-at-home due to the small amount of time we'll be in Japan before returning to the US and being pregnant. She feels that, being brought up to be a proper Japanese wife, she should perform all household chores including cooking and cleaning.

I; however, being a modern American guy (and one who likes to cook) have insisted that on the weekends, she should get a break from housework and I should cook.

Our current debate is who should wash the dishes on the weekend. Her position is that SHE should be the one scrubbing in the hot water due to the fact that I was the one who cooked the food. Furthermore, it matters not that she cooks and cleans on the weekdays because I am the one bringing home the bacon.

I think that this is unfair in that she cooks and cleans all though the week and still does the bulk of the chores on the weekend. Therefore it is only fair that I at least cook and clean up the mess (and I'm a very messy cook, a good one, but messy) that I have made of the kitchen.

Since we have come to an impasse on who's cleaning, she asked me to toss this question out to you all. So, who should be doing them dishes?

I don't think it should be a matter of schedule. Whoever cooks the meal, the other one should wash the dishes. The pots and pans are a seperate matter, but if you cooked the meal she enjoyed, she should wash the dishes, and vice versa. Of course, that's a default position. Once the baby comes along you'll find yourself doing the dishes all week because you'd rather wash nice peaceful dishes than try to comfort a baby that's crying for its mother who's washing the dishes. It's simpler to let her keep the baby and you take the dishes.

That said,if you've got the kind of job that can ship you around the world, why don't you have a dishwasher?

Actually, the answer to your question is, if nothing else, walk up and grab a teatowel when she's washing and start......smacking her butt until she lets you do the dishes? Kinkaaaay!

you and your mate get on the roof ,ones throw them the other shoots them with a shotgun

you and your mate get on the roof ,ones throw them the other shoots them with a shotgun
Best idea so far.
Think about all the people who make plates for a living, they live in poverty and despair everyday just because some people are so selfish and reuse their dishes. Whenever you wash up, a small child starves because her father's labors were not needed at the local Plate Factory.

My cat washes all the dishes!;)

you and your mate get on the roof ,ones throw them the other shoots them with a shotgun
Just don't get confused, please...
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/GermanNightmare/shotgun.gifhttp://www.studip.uni-goettingen.de/pictures/smile/abwasch.gif

Best idea so far.
Think about all the people who make plates for a living, they live in poverty and despair everyday just because some people are so selfish and reuse their dishes. Whenever you wash up, a small child starves because her father's labors were not needed at the local Plate Factory.
those poor people
Just don't get confused, please...
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/GermanNightmare/shotgun.gifhttp://www.studip.uni-goettingen.de/pictures/smile/abwasch.gif

sound words

A dishwasher is not exactly high-tech, and I suppose dish washers already are around longer than just 5-10 years.

Oh, for sure they've been around a lot longer. But are still not common over here. Over here they're considered an expensive luxury, in both terms of cash and space. The same goes for amenities that Americans typically take for granted, like central heat/air, hot water heaters, and so on.

For the 5-10 years thing, I was mostly thinking of computers, both at home and in general, and similar sorts of things.

OTOH, Japan is a full generation ahead of the States in cell phone tech. Most of the features of Apple's shiny new iPhone is pretty much old hat here. (I'm not sure what all they've put in it, so that may be all, not just most. ;))

dishwashers are pretty expensive. i don't have one in my flat. and my mum never had one until i moved out and wasn't there to wash the dishes.

And as I pointed out, they take up space, which is at a premium here.

dishwashers are pretty expensive. i don't have one in my flat. and my mum never had one until i moved out and wasn't there to wash the dishes.What are you talking about? A dishwasher is less than 500 €. It's one of the first things I bought when I moved out.

If she wants to, let her. Win-win.

Oh, for sure they've been around a lot longer. But are still not common over here. Over here they're considered an expensive luxury, in both terms of cash and space.
And as I pointed out, they take up space, which is at a premium here.So because it's "not common" and considered an "expensive luxury" you can't go to a store and buy one?
And what space does a dish-washer take? Half a square meter?

So because it's "not common" and considered an "expensive luxury" you can't go to a store and buy one?
And what space does a dish-washer take? Half a square meter?

have you ever seen a typical japanese apartment?

have you ever seen a typical japanese apartment?No, why should I? Even in a 50 square meter apartment there's enough room for a dishwasher.

No, why should I? Even in a 50 square meter apartment there's enough room for a dishwasher.

well lets see what we can glean from the evidence presented.

1) there are only 2 of them. no real need for a dishwasher for 2 people's dishes

2) they live in japan. few japanese apartments have the space and are set up for the use of a dishwasher. meaning that most of the time it would be essentially in the middle of the floor in a tiny apartment

3) sometimes japanese apartments dont even have hot water. dishwashers need very hot water.

4) they are only in japan for a short while longer. they would either have to abandon the dishwasher or pay to have it shipped to the united states.

5) the wife enjoys washing the dishes for her husband.

my conclusion--it would be foolish to buy a dishwasher in this case.

What are you talking about? A dishwasher is less than 500 €. It's one of the first things I bought when I moved out.

I've never seen one for sale here. I know they can be had, but certainly not for that price.

So because it's "not common" and considered an "expensive luxury" you can't go to a store and buy one?

Actually, yes, that's pretty much it. Like I said, I have never seen one for sale.

However, this article notes that about 10% of Japanese family homes now have one. http://www.appliancemagazine.com/news.php?article=3875&zone=0&first=1

And what space does a dish-washer take? Half a square meter?

That's literally a half a square meter too big for most Japanese, as you couldn't fit it into most Japanese kitchens I've been in. Remember, the average Japanese house is tiny, and the kitchens are almost an afterthought.

For more info: http://www.all-about-teaching-english-in-japan.com/Japaneseapartment.html

1) there are only 2 of them. no real need for a dishwasher for 2 people's dishesI am one and I have a dishwasher.

2) they live in japan. few japanese apartments have the space and are set up for the use of a dishwasher. meaning that most of the time it would be essentially in the middle of the floor in a tiny apartmenthow tiny?

3) sometimes japanese apartments dont even have hot water. dishwashers need very hot water.since when does a dishwasher need hot water? it heats the water itself. all you need is water supply and drain, the same as for a washing machine, and you could even use the same installation for them

4) they are only in japan for a short while longer. they would either have to abandon the dishwasher or pay to have it shipped to the united states.I skipped that one.

5) the wife enjoys washing the dishes for her husband.get a new wife :rolleyes:

No, why should I? Even in a 50 square meter apartment there's enough room for a dishwasher.

The average Japanese kitchen, according to the link I just posted, is 4 square meters, and I think they erred on the large side. That includes the fridge, sink, stove, and standing space.

I am going to chime in (again) and agree with Ashmoria (I think, I am too lazy to look up the quote) clean up the kitchen a little as you go.....even when I do wash hubby's dishes on Saturday, he is careful to rinse out all his dishes as he cooks, so that I don't come in on a bowl of crusty pancake batter. She may want to wash the dishes but you can make it a little easier for her. ;)

how tiny?

My apartment is about 9 square meters. , which is on the low end, as most 1 bedroom apartments range from 9 to 23 square meters, but I know people who live in rooms half the size of mine....

get a new wife :rolleyes:

Mmmm.... and I thought I was going to get in trouble with N...

I've never seen one for sale here. I know they can be had, but certainly not for that price.



Actually, yes, that's pretty much it. Like I said, I have never seen one for sale.

However, this article notes that about 10% of Japanese family homes now have one. http://www.appliancemagazine.com/news.php?article=3875&zone=0&first=1



That's literally a half a square meter too big for most Japanese, as you couldn't fit it into most Japanese kitchens I've been in. Remember, the average Japanese house is tiny, and the kitchens are almost an afterthought.

For more info: http://www.all-about-teaching-english-in-japan.com/Japaneseapartment.html

The I suppose I will never move to Japan. I couldn't live in a shoe box.
The first things I bought when I left my parents were a fridge, a washing machine, a dishwasher, a hearth, a tv set, a bed, a wardrobe, a sofa, two small tables, a bathroom shelf. And a cat.

My apartment is about 9 square meters. , which is on the low end, as most 1 bedroom apartments range from 9 to 23 square meters, but I know people who live in rooms half the size of mine....9 square meters ??!!!! that's not an apartment, that's a prison cell. my kitchen is 10 square meters. I currently live in a 97 square meters apartment, I could not imagine living in a 23 square meters apartment. That's less than the size of my living room.
However, I'm looking for a 75 square meters or so apartment.

Mmmm.... and I thought I was going to get in trouble with N...I rather think a wife delighting in doing the dishes is a trouble...

The I suppose I will never move to Japan. I couldn't live in a shoe box.

Be glad you live where you do. Sounds like back home in the states, but I'm not sure since you seem to work in Euros... :)

The first things I bought when I left my parents were a fridge, a washing machine, a dishwasher, a hearth, a tv set, a bed, a wardrobe, a sofa, two small tables, a bathroom shelf. And a cat.

Hehehe. Just remember that in most of the world, that is considered filthy, stinking rich. In most countries, I'm filthy stinking rich, and I couldn't afford for an apartment big enough for all that without working a second job or seriously cutting down my disposable income. (My rent now is 1/5th my monthy salary. An apartment big enough to comfortably accomadate all that would be double or triple the price.)

Anywho, horses for courses.

Buy her a slave.

I was born in England, and subsequently I have lived in Spain, France, and now Germany. My first flat was 63 square meters, and here that would be average, I suppose.
I am certainly not rich (although I had a better job then than I have now), but there are certain things I would not want to do without.

Let her do what she wants, she'll get tired over time.

9 square meters ??!!!! that's not an apartment, that's a prison cell. my kitchen is 10 square meters.

You're getting the idea. Like I said. I know people who live in rooms half the size of mine.

I currently live in a 97 square meters apartment, I could not imagine living in a 23 square meters apartment. That's less than the size of my living room.
However, I'm looking for a 75 square meters or so apartment.

The average monthly rent for 75 m2 apartment in Tokyo or Osaka typically runs about double my monthly salary.

http://www.openspace.jp/search.php?area_id=P260&max_price=2000000&min_size=1&min_meter=70&serviced=1&mansion=1&house=1&apartment=1&guesthouse=1&office=1&order_by=max_price_asc&action=search&Submit=+%3A+search+%3A+
(And just a note - the first listing there is deceptive.)

I rather think a wife delighting in doing the dishes is a trouble...

Not going to go there tonight.

You're getting the idea. Like I said. I know people who live in rooms half the size of mine.As a student or so, but not as a typical japanese with a regular job? :eek:
how much is the yen in euros?

OK, the list has a 75 square meters flat for 69,000 yen, that's roughly 450 euros. I would consider that an acceptable rent. So it's not so bad in Japan after all. What does GH and LDK mean? and why is the latter more expensive than the former?

I was born in England, and subsequently I have lived in Spain, France, and now Germany. My first flat was 63 square meters, and here that would be average, I suppose.

Aha.

I am certainly not rich (although I had a better job then than I have now), but there are certain things I would not want to do without.

Err, if you can afford all of that, then yes, in the world standing of things, you are rich. I'm not far above the poverty line for Japan, and I'm in the top 10 percent for the world overall. (Not complaining or putting you down, just stating the facts.)

As a student or so, but not as a typical japanese with a regular job? :eek:

Yep, except maybe for the typical part. Not many, mind you, but enough.

how much is the yen in euros?
http://www.x-rates.com/calculator.html puts the current rate at 158 yen to the Euro.

And, actually, looking back over the numbers there, the 75 m2 apartments are only running 1.5x not 2-3x.

Err, if you can afford all of that, then yes, in the world standing of things, you are rich. I'm not far above the poverty line for Japan, and I'm in the top 10 percent for the world overall. (Not complaining or putting you down, just stating the facts.)So what job do you have?

(And shouldn't "rich" be rather considered in the context of the respective country you're in? Of course in comparison to someone in a 3rd world country I'm rich, but then expenses aren't as high there as well.)

OK, the list has a 75 square meters flat for 69,000 yen, that's roughly 450 euros. I would consider that an acceptable rent. So it's not so bad in Japan after all. What does GH and LDK mean? and why is the latter more expensive than the former?

That's the one I pointed out as being deceptive. It's a Guest House (shared accomadation). Also, the price is given on the full listing as "from 75,000 yen to 82,000 yen".

GH = Guest House, as above
LDK = Combined Living/Dining/Kitchen - the number indicates the number of bedrooms, so a 1LDK has one bedroom and living/dining/kitchen room.

One cooks, the other cleans.

I think she should allow you to do the dishes when you wan tto do them. She needs to learn to let you pamper her too.

Take turns.

What are you talking about? A dishwasher is less than 500 €. It's one of the first things I bought when I moved out.

well aren't you lucky you can afford that then? :rolleyes:

The I suppose I will never move to Japan. I couldn't live in a shoe box.
The first things I bought when I left my parents were a fridge, a washing machine, a dishwasher, a hearth, a tv set, a bed, a wardrobe, a sofa, two small tables, a bathroom shelf. And a cat.
:eek:

that's incredible! i'm anticipating living in a van once i finish university.

So what job do you have?

ESL teacher

(And shouldn't "rich" be rather considered in the context of the respective country you're in? Of course in comparison to someone in a 3rd world country I'm rich, but then expenses aren't as high there as well.)

I'll let someone else pick that up for the moment.

:eek:

that's incredible! i'm anticipating living in a van once i finish university.

Isn't it.

Lunatic Goofball:)
Be worth it just to see the results

I support a decentralized dish washing system, unlike the rest of you authoritarian communist bastards.

Whoever uses a dish or whatever, they wash it when they're through. It's similar to wiping asses. We don't assign someone to be the official ass-wiper.

Get a dishwasher. Problem solved.

I find myself with a bit of a conundrum and I am turning to the collective wisdom of NSGeneral (stop that snickering) for advice.

My wife is currently stay-at-home due to the small amount of time we'll be in Japan before returning to the US and being pregnant. She feels that, being brought up to be a proper Japanese wife, she should perform all household chores including cooking and cleaning.

I; however, being a modern American guy (and one who likes to cook) have insisted that on the weekends, she should get a break from housework and I should cook.

Our current debate is who should wash the dishes on the weekend. Her position is that SHE should be the one scrubbing in the hot water due to the fact that I was the one who cooked the food. Furthermore, it matters not that she cooks and cleans on the weekdays because I am the one bringing home the bacon.

I think that this is unfair in that she cooks and cleans all though the week and still does the bulk of the chores on the weekend. Therefore it is only fair that I at least cook and clean up the mess (and I'm a very messy cook, a good one, but messy) that I have made of the kitchen.

Since we have come to an impasse on who's cleaning, she asked me to toss this question out to you all. So, who should be doing them dishes?

Easy. Just do the dishes TOGETHER!

I mean, it's perfect in that both of you gets awa guilt-free (from not helping with chores) AND it makes you both spend time together in very close proxitmity. The possibilities are endless.

And PLEASE don't make another thread asking who should wash and who should dry the dishes >.>

well aren't you lucky you can afford that then?Get a job, then that's not up to luck. :rolleyes:

that's incredible! i'm anticipating living in a van once i finish university.then maybe you're studying the wrong stuff? shouldn't you start to get into business connexions with companies while you're at university so you can easily get a good job once you finished university? And while you're at university there's no reason not to have a small job to afford a flat, like I used to work in bars and discos.

ESL teacherThat means "English as a Second Language", right? What people are you teaching? Then why don't you switch to teaching Business English? I suppose that would be less work and better pay.

You rinse and stack, she washes, you dry and put away. When you get to the States, get a dishwasher.

Dobby the house elf. Or some other sort of slave.

That means "English as a Second Language", right? What people are you teaching? Then why don't you switch to teaching Business English? I suppose that would be less work and better pay.
I'm teaching junior high school kids and making pretty good money (For EFL) at it.

Still don't have either enough money for a dishwasher or space for one, and I live in a house!

And no, I wouldn't trade my wife in for a dishwasher either.

I find myself with a bit of a conundrum and I am turning to the collective wisdom of NSGeneral (stop that snickering) for advice.

My wife is currently stay-at-home due to the small amount of time we'll be in Japan before returning to the US and being pregnant. She feels that, being brought up to be a proper Japanese wife, she should perform all household chores including cooking and cleaning.

I; however, being a modern American guy (and one who likes to cook) have insisted that on the weekends, she should get a break from housework and I should cook.

Our current debate is who should wash the dishes on the weekend. Her position is that SHE should be the one scrubbing in the hot water due to the fact that I was the one who cooked the food. Furthermore, it matters not that she cooks and cleans on the weekdays because I am the one bringing home the bacon.

I think that this is unfair in that she cooks and cleans all though the week and still does the bulk of the chores on the weekend. Therefore it is only fair that I at least cook and clean up the mess (and I'm a very messy cook, a good one, but messy) that I have made of the kitchen.

Since we have come to an impasse on who's cleaning, she asked me to toss this question out to you all. So, who should be doing them dishes?

she should. Listen to your wife.

Doesn't it make sense that the person who makes the food clean up afterwards? I always thought the whole process was done by the person (or people) involved in the preparation, from the first step to the cleanup afterwards. It doesn't really make much sense for the other person to do cleanup unless they helped prepare it; that seems sort of like making the guests do the dishes at a dinner party.

Get a job, then that's not up to luck. :rolleyes:

then maybe you're studying the wrong stuff? shouldn't you start to get into business connexions with companies while you're at university so you can easily get a good job once you finished university? And while you're at university there's no reason not to have a small job to afford a flat, like I used to work in bars and discos.

i have a job as a waiter and bartender and i have no interest in going into business. i'm an archaeologist, i'm studying what i'm interested in, the connections i'm making while doing my degree are to get involved with digs and research. if i'd wanted to go into business or work in an office i'm sure i'd have chosen a different degree.

if you managed to come out of university and go straight into a job that allowed you to afford £450pcm rent you are indeed lucky. unless you went through university before it became something that ~everyone does, then it's quite understandable that you fell into a good job. many people spend months and years after university looking for a decent job. the simple fact is, these days there are too many graduates for the positions available. of course there are professions where there are a deficit of graduates, but these are the minority. two of my best friends both have what i would describe as 'good jobs' and they're struggling to afford c.£275pcm. one of my other friends got a brilliant degree, yet she is on the dole and doing occaisional cash-in-hand shifts in a bar. another friend has simply been temping since graduating.

i was only wishing to point out that most people cannot afford to pay for the luxuries which you seem to consider as givens for a modern appartment. not everyone's life choices and career path will let them have what you apparently got.

Oh, for sure they've been around a lot longer. But are still not common over here. Over here they're considered an expensive luxury, in both terms of cash and space. The same goes for amenities that Americans typically take for granted, like central heat/air, hot water heaters, and so on.

For the 5-10 years thing, I was mostly thinking of computers, both at home and in general, and similar sorts of things.

OTOH, Japan is a full generation ahead of the States in cell phone tech. Most of the features of Apple's shiny new iPhone is pretty much old hat here. (I'm not sure what all they've put in it, so that may be all, not just most. ;))



And as I pointed out, they take up space, which is at a premium here.


My boss lived in Japan for three years as a teacher of conversational English -- pretty much the apartment he described was one VERY small room with a rolled up mat for a bed.

I don't know if that is the norm, but I do know that real estate is very expensive there.

I don't know if that is the norm, but I do know that real estate is very expensive there.

I'm not sure if it's still the case, but during the bubble economy of the 1980's the total value of real estate in the Tokyo metropolitan area was greater than the value of all real estate in the US.

Get a dishwasher. Problem solved.

Read the thread. Problem solved.

I find myself with a bit of a conundrum and I am turning to the collective wisdom of NSGeneral (stop that snickering) for advice.

My wife is currently stay-at-home due to the small amount of time we'll be in Japan before returning to the US and being pregnant. She feels that, being brought up to be a proper Japanese wife, she should perform all household chores including cooking and cleaning.

I; however, being a modern American guy (and one who likes to cook) have insisted that on the weekends, she should get a break from housework and I should cook.

Our current debate is who should wash the dishes on the weekend. Her position is that SHE should be the one scrubbing in the hot water due to the fact that I was the one who cooked the food. Furthermore, it matters not that she cooks and cleans on the weekdays because I am the one bringing home the bacon.

I think that this is unfair in that she cooks and cleans all though the week and still does the bulk of the chores on the weekend. Therefore it is only fair that I at least cook and clean up the mess (and I'm a very messy cook, a good one, but messy) that I have made of the kitchen.

Since we have come to an impasse on who's cleaning, she asked me to toss this question out to you all. So, who should be doing them dishes?

Unless it's going to really get to her, and make her feel like she's not doing what she should be doing by not washing them after you cook, and since you want to wash them.. then by all means ...wash the dishes!

I understand where she is coming from though. When someone else besides me cooks (especially when I'm at their house)/(and doesn't end up cleaning up as they are cooking etc.) I too feel like I should wash the dishes. But either way, I always prep them. Can't stand dishes sitting with drink/food drying on them getting all stuck and all thrown into the sink.

Or you know it could be that you aren't very good at washing them, and she just doesn't want to be bothered with having to go behind you later and rewash them. :p

Get a dishwasher. Problem solved.


You still have to rinse them before putting them into a dishwasher.. but that's no problem at all if people will just rinse them immediately after they are done with them. I only use a dishwasher when I have a shit load to clean, and that's rare.

My boss lived in Japan for three years as a teacher of conversational English -- pretty much the apartment he described was one VERY small room with a rolled up mat for a bed.

I don't know if that is the norm, but I do know that real estate is very expensive there.
That sounds like a typical Japanese apartment, yes.

I live in the countryside in a nice house and I have about as much room as my one bedroom apartment in the US had. My wife's parents are very well off and live in a house that isn't much bigger than the 3 bedroom one I grew up in.

That means "English as a Second Language", right?

Indeed.

What people are you teaching?

All sorts, all ages, all walks of life.

Then why don't you switch to teaching Business English?

Because I enjoy what I do very much. :)

I suppose that would be less work and better pay.

Actually, I used too work for a company that was more business oriented, and had a couple of side jobs teaching in offices. It meant longer hours, not shorter, and for a lower hourly wage. Now I work shorter hours - 30 a week compared with 40, and a earn bit more than 2000 yen an hour compared with 1700. Plus I pretty much hated the job.

i was only wishing to point out that most people cannot afford to pay for the luxuries which you seem to consider as givens for a modern appartment. not everyone's life choices and career path will let them have what you apparently got.

Indeed.

And, since nobody's picked up this, here we go. Hang on, this is where the ride may get bumpy! ;)

(And shouldn't "rich" be rather considered in the context of the respective country you're in?

Nope. That's a quick road to unhappiness. As I said above, I'm close to the poverty line here in Japan. But I'm in the top 10% of the world. If you focus on the first, it's a negative, but the latter is a positive.

Of course in comparison to someone in a 3rd world country I'm rich, but then expenses aren't as high there as well.)

1) That's exactly what I'm talking about - absolute, not relative poverty.
2) The comparison is deceptive. Prices are lower, but so are incomes. That's why most measures of poverty use PPP and CPI, which helps to clarify the picture. (Do you honestly think that a largeish apartment like yours, filled with appliances, is simply cheaper, and thus equally affordable, in the third world?)

My boss lived in Japan for three years as a teacher of conversational English -- pretty much the apartment he described was one VERY small room with a rolled up mat for a bed.

I don't know if that is the norm, but I do know that real estate is very expensive there.

Yes indeed.

I'm not sure if it's still the case, but during the bubble economy of the 1980's the total value of real estate in the Tokyo metropolitan area was greater than the value of all real estate in the US.

Partly myth, partly the real estate bubble, and partly based on artificially (and sometimes illegally) inflated assests.

Read the thread. Problem solved.

Heh.

That sounds like a typical Japanese apartment, yes.

I live in the countryside in a nice house and I have about as much room as my one bedroom apartment in the US had. My wife's parents are very well off and live in a house that isn't much bigger than the 3 bedroom one I grew up in.

The largest Japanese house I've ever seen the inside of had a "huge" 30 mat living room. It was owned by one of the top executives at Mitsubishi, who's wife I tutored.

Let her do the dishes and as payment offer to give her a foot massage.
Being pregnant, she'd appreciate that more than you doing the dishes.

I will second this, there is nothing better then a good massage in my opinion.

That means "English as a Second Language", right? What people are you teaching? Then why don't you switch to teaching Business English? I suppose that would be less work and better pay.
You ppl are prob gonna hate me for saying this, but...
I teach primary ESL, 9 classes a week (6 1/2 hours a week total classtime) + 3 hours tutoring. For that I get ~$5000US a month.
I really don't think teaching Business English would give me that sweet a deal.

My contract is up for renewal soon. Oddly enough,, I very much hope they'll keep me on. :)

You ppl are prob gonna hate me for saying this, but...
I teach primary ESL, 9 classes a week (6 1/2 hours a week total classtime) + 3 hours tutoring. For that I get ~$5000US a month.
I really don't think teaching Business English would give me that sweet a deal.

My contract is up for renewal soon. Oddly enough,, I very much hope they'll keep me on. :)

Nice gig. :cool:

Who should wash the dishes?
Harlesburg

Harlesburg

LOL

(Who's gonna fly H out here? Or will you make him swim?)

Therefore it is only fair that I at least cook and clean up the mess (and I'm a very messy cook, a good one, but messy) that I have made of the kitchen.

Since we have come to an impasse on who's cleaning, she asked me to toss this question out to you all. So, who should be doing them dishes?

You might settle for this: you clean the mess you've done in the kitchen while cooking, and buy a dish-cleaning machine (or what's its proper name in english, I don't want to check right now) so she is relieved of some of the work that she feels she has to do anyway.

Also disposable plastic dishes could be an idea.

You might settle for this: you clean the mess you've done in the kitchen while cooking, and buy a dish-cleaning machine (or what's its proper name in english, I don't want to check right now) so she is relieved of some of the work that she feels she has to do anyway.

Also disposable plastic dishes(or paper) could be an idea.


Dishwasher, and yeah.. you nailed it. Blue= me

No Styrofoam!

What? You are arguing about it... Flip a coin... or play rock, paper, scissors winner gets to decides.

Honestly, I have been known to put dishes in the bottom of the shower to clean them. I can't stand cleaning house. That is why I have friends who are OCD.

Dishwasher, and yeah.. you nailed it. Blue= me

No Styrofoam!

Righty-ho, thank you.
I know how boring an argument about who's going to wash the dishes can be, because my parents always argue about it (both want to wash them so the other can relax). And they're both italians, so no cultural issues about it.;)

You're arguing over who gets to do the dishes? :eek:
QFE!
--------------
Any time a woman doesn't want a man to do chores is a day that should be celebrated.

I can't wait to go to Europe.. I watch this show on PBS where this guy travels all over Europe and give you destination and travel tips. I love it. I had a freakin chance to MOVE to Germany 3 1/2 years ago ... my cousin .. in the military wanted me to come on over..he was gonna get me straight and everything.. I turned him down.. now he and his family are living in Africa working with folks and helping communities and stuff.. which is great.. but damn.. I wish I had gone.. WTF was I thinking! :( :( :(

You might settle for this: you clean the mess you've done in the kitchen while cooking, and buy a dish-cleaning machine (or what's its proper name in english, I don't want to check right now) so she is relieved of some of the work that she feels she has to do anyway.

Also disposable plastic dishes could be an idea.

:D Now the proper English term for "dish cleaning machine", has been pointed out, go back through and read the whole discussion of why they aren't common here in Japan. ;)

LOL

(Who's gonna fly H out here? Or will you make him swim?)
No thanks, i've seen Japanese accomodation it is too small and i don't feel like paying $15 for a beer or $1200 a night to live in a shoe box.

Harlesburg
:eek:
Damn you!

Since we have come to an impasse on who's cleaning, she asked me to toss this question out to you all. So, who should be doing them dishes?just quietly wash the dishes, if she complains make room and...
wash them together. ;)

when she's pregnant, there will come a time when she will want to rest and take breaks, by doing the chores together, she won't feel 1) Guilty for resting 2) the pressure to get up and do chores. and you won't be overwhelmed when you need to pick up the 'slack'.

course, the foot massages, back rubs and other... comfort things you will be doing for her can also be a trade off.

I find myself with a bit of a conundrum and I am turning to the collective wisdom of NSGeneral (stop that snickering) for advice.

My wife is currently stay-at-home due to the small amount of time we'll be in Japan before returning to the US and being pregnant. She feels that, being brought up to be a proper Japanese wife, she should perform all household chores including cooking and cleaning.

I; however, being a modern American guy (and one who likes to cook) have insisted that on the weekends, she should get a break from housework and I should cook.

Our current debate is who should wash the dishes on the weekend. Her position is that SHE should be the one scrubbing in the hot water due to the fact that I was the one who cooked the food. Furthermore, it matters not that she cooks and cleans on the weekdays because I am the one bringing home the bacon.

I think that this is unfair in that she cooks and cleans all though the week and still does the bulk of the chores on the weekend. Therefore it is only fair that I at least cook and clean up the mess (and I'm a very messy cook, a good one, but messy) that I have made of the kitchen.

Since we have come to an impasse on who's cleaning, she asked me to toss this question out to you all. So, who should be doing them dishes?


In my house there are two rules.

1) Both me and my wife get to do as we wish. So if she wanted to washup then she could do so.

2) The kids do the washing up for their pocket money.

Job done, what problem?;)

I find myself with a bit of a conundrum and I am turning to the collective wisdom of NSGeneral (stop that snickering) for advice.

My wife is currently stay-at-home due to the small amount of time we'll be in Japan before returning to the US and being pregnant. She feels that, being brought up to be a proper Japanese wife, she should perform all household chores including cooking and cleaning.

I; however, being a modern American guy (and one who likes to cook) have insisted that on the weekends, she should get a break from housework and I should cook.

Our current debate is who should wash the dishes on the weekend. Her position is that SHE should be the one scrubbing in the hot water due to the fact that I was the one who cooked the food. Furthermore, it matters not that she cooks and cleans on the weekdays because I am the one bringing home the bacon.

I think that this is unfair in that she cooks and cleans all though the week and still does the bulk of the chores on the weekend. Therefore it is only fair that I at least cook and clean up the mess (and I'm a very messy cook, a good one, but messy) that I have made of the kitchen.

Since we have come to an impasse on who's cleaning, she asked me to toss this question out to you all. So, who should be doing them dishes?

I say let her, that's not a sexist position, it's how she feels. She needs to behave in what she feels is the proper way. Just be a good husband and show her as much care and attention as she is showing you and just help her whenever you can and make her part easier.

I find myself with a bit of a conundrum and I am turning to the collective wisdom of NSGeneral (stop that snickering) for advice.

My wife is currently stay-at-home due to the small amount of time we'll be in Japan before returning to the US and being pregnant. She feels that, being brought up to be a proper Japanese wife, she should perform all household chores including cooking and cleaning.

I; however, being a modern American guy (and one who likes to cook) have insisted that on the weekends, she should get a break from housework and I should cook.

Our current debate is who should wash the dishes on the weekend. Her position is that SHE should be the one scrubbing in the hot water due to the fact that I was the one who cooked the food. Furthermore, it matters not that she cooks and cleans on the weekdays because I am the one bringing home the bacon.

I think that this is unfair in that she cooks and cleans all though the week and still does the bulk of the chores on the weekend. Therefore it is only fair that I at least cook and clean up the mess (and I'm a very messy cook, a good one, but messy) that I have made of the kitchen.

Since we have come to an impasse on who's cleaning, she asked me to toss this question out to you all. So, who should be doing them dishes?

Allow her to do as she wishes, anything else would be male oppression:)