NationStates Jolt Archive

See the speech here (http://www.barackobama.com/)

Cliched humor aside, I enjoyed his speech. All in all, I thought the speech itself was inspiring and interesting and that it had some real power. I also was glad to see his comments about anti-gay bigotry ("And so they blame... gay people, or immigrants."), since the other candidates have remained silent on that issue so far.*

What did you lot think of the speech?

Full disclosure: I am an unabashed Obama supporter.

Obama is the best by far. In either of the two big parties.

But I fear he won't win. His name sounds like "Osama," plus it has "Hussein" in it.

I watched Obamas speech today on CNN and I loved it. Makes my heart warm to see someone come out on his opposition to Iraq with no qualifications that most other politicians continually do. In fact I don't recall anything that I disagreed with.

Obama would be so much more palatable if it weren't for that whole universal-healthcare bit.

Obama is the best by far. In either of the two big parties.

But I fear he won't win. His name sounds like "Osama," plus it has "Hussein" in it.

Luckily, this is where the media's echo chamber effect will come to his advantage. Just by having his name mentioned, the connection will slowly be negated in the mainstream and he probably won't be hurt amongst any voters who were actually going to vote for him.

Obama would be so much more palatable if it weren't for that whole universal-healthcare bit.

A vast majority of Americans, many of whom are without health care at the moment, dissagree with you. I'm not too big a fan of universal healthcare either, but we have a crisis, and there has been no other sane or reasonable options presented thusfar.

Luckily, this is where the media's echo chamber effect will come to his advantage. Just by having his name mentioned, the connection will slowly be negated in the mainstream and he probably won't be hurt amongst any voters who were actually going to vote for him.

I don't see why the echo effect would negate the subconcious associative connotation people have. People, like it or not, tend to think "terrorist" when they think "Muslim," and they will tend to think "Osama" when they think "Obama," and "Saddam" when they think "Hussein."

Combine that with the absolutely disgusting and gruesome smear campaign the Republicans WILL throw at him, and it's going to be an ugly mess. I really don't look forward to seeing the next coupla years. Obama's a good man, I think; honest.
They'll eat him alive.

I don't see why the echo effect would negate the subconcious associative connotation people have. People, like it or not, tend to think "terrorist" when they think "Muslim," and they will tend to think "Osama" when they think "Obama," and "Saddam" when they think "Hussein."

People aren't as stupid as those of us in the political know would like to believe they are. Once Obama has established a significant enough level of name recognition, connections between his name and Osama or Saddam will be of little importance. It's not that they won't be there, but it won't matter to most people because they'll see beyond it.

Combine that with the absolutely disgusting and gruesome smear campaign the Republicans WILL throw at him, and it's going to be an ugly mess. I really don't look forward to seeing the next coupla years. Obama's a good man, I think; honest.
They'll eat him alive.

That's why the Dems'll make sure he has a team of advisors strong enough to back him up. They learned from Kerry, and they won't let someone who can't play in the big leagues go in without first class backup.

And the Republic Party is hurting enough right now that I'm willing to bet that they have trouble pulling swiftboats this year.

John Edwards, I guess.

But if he makes another gesture towards making war on Iran... I don't know. Frankly I dislike all the candidates.

People aren't as stupid as those of us in the political know would like to believe they are.

Then how come Bush won the election? twice.

Then how come Bush won the election? twice.

Because people are also very slow to respond to pressure. The American electorate is very sluggish. To get a response out of it, sometimes it takes a real boot in the belly. That doesn't mean they're stupid, just careful. It's part of our political culture. We're very wary.

Then how come Bush won the election? twice.

Because Kerry was useless.

Combine that with the absolutely disgusting and gruesome smear campaign the Republicans WILL throw at him, and it's going to be an ugly mess. I really don't look forward to seeing the next coupla years. Obama's a good man, I think; honest.
They'll eat him alive.

Damn right. I demand nothing less than total character annihilation for my $50RNC donation. The Whitehouse Christmas card was nice, and I liked the official Reagan Library wall calendar, but that cash stays in my pocket next year if the democrat nominee's reputation isn't completely destroyed.. :)

Damn right. I demand nothing less than total character annihilation for my $50RNC donation. The Whitehouse Christmas card was nice, and I liked the official Reagan Library wall calendar, but that cash stays in my pocket next year if the democrat nominee's reputation isn't completely destroyed.. :)

You ask a lot for $50, don't you?

John Edwards, I guess.

But if he makes another gesture towards making war on Iran... I don't know. Frankly I dislike all the candidates.

Edwards is an out-and-out populist, what do you expect?

He appeals to the baser attitudes of the less-educated segments of the population, and does so with shiny things and pretty promises.

You ask a lot for $50, don't you?

Gotta keep 'em on their toes somehow.. they're a political powerhouse, not the AARP. :p

A vast majority of Americans, many of whom are without health care at the moment, dissagree with you. I'm not too big a fan of universal healthcare either, but we have a crisis, and there has been no other sane or reasonable options presented thusfar.

Same here. But then again, we are already paying for it anyway. every emergency room visit, every disease or heart condition caught late instead of early, every condition that people without healthcare could have prevented with regular checkups had they had the opportunity is paid for by those of us that HAVE healthcare. Those costs are passed on in insurance premiums and medical bills to the rest of us. So, really the only difference between universal healthcare and what we have now is that we will be paying for everybody's ounce of prevention instead of their pound of cure. I'm no socialist, but I know a bargain when I see one. *nod*

Same here. But then again, we are already paying for it anyway. every emergency room visit, every disease or heart condition caught late instead of early, every condition that people without healthcare could have prevented with regular checkups had they had the opportunity is paid for by those of us that HAVE healthcare. Those costs are passed on in insurance premiums and medical bills to the rest of us. So, really the only difference between universal healthcare and what we have now is that we will be paying for everybody's ounce of prevention instead of their pound of cure. I'm no socialist, but I know a bargain when I see one. *nod*

You and your silly logic. Only communists are for universal healthcare. Do you support communism?!

Because people are also very slow to respond to pressure. The American electorate is very sluggish. To get a response out of it, sometimes it takes a real boot in the belly. That doesn't mean they're stupid, just careful. It's part of our political culture. We're very wary.

So, with such a wary and sluggish electorate, I don't foresee a black man suddenly winning the presidency. Especially with a name that reminds people of Evil Middle Eastern People in a time when people still believe that Evil Middle Eastern People are out to get us all.

He appeals to the baser attitudes of the less-educated segments of the population

I haven't seen a breakdown by class, but I'd be fairly surprised if the "less-educated segments of the population" were actually all that pro-war.

So, with such a wary and sluggish electorate, I don't foresee a black man suddenly winning the presidency. Especially with a name that reminds people of Evil Middle Eastern People in a time when people still believe that Evil Middle Eastern People are out to get us all.

I understand your fear, but the waryness of the electorate is currently against the Republicans. Right now, polls show Obama beating every leading Republican candidate if he runs for Pres. Those polls aren't final votes by any means, but remember that the ball is in the Dems court, because the Republicans have fucked up so bad under GWB that they have split their base and are depressing the fundamentalist vote.

I haven't seen a breakdown by class, but I'd be fairly surprised if the "less-educated segments of the population" were actually all that pro-war.

By and large, the less educated elements don't hold an opinion, don't vote, and only pay attention when the television shows them pictures of things going boom.

By and large, the less educated elements don't hold an opinion, don't vote, and only pay attention when the television shows them pictures of things going boom.

Well... Kinda. They tend to be more responsive to issues of economic need in voting. That is to say, when things are gravest for them, they respond most, and economics are the one thing that the parties can only spin so much.

I understand your fear, but the waryness of the electorate is currently against the Republicans. Right now, polls show Obama beating every leading Republican candidate if he runs for Pres. Those polls aren't final votes by any means, but remember that the ball is in the Dems court, because the Republicans have fucked up so bad under GWB that they have split their base and are depressing the fundamentalist vote.

Let's hope you're right.

Think they put Hillary up there so that people who don't like her, and don't like Bush, would be prone to vote for Obama? Sorta like a good cop bad cop thing, with Hillary being the bad cop.

So, really the only difference between universal healthcare and what we have now is that we will be paying for everybody's ounce of prevention instead of their pound of cure. I'm no socialist, but I know a bargain when I see one. *nod*

I'm a bargain-hunter myself.. if Kaiser triples my co-pay for hospital visits, I go down the block and sign with the next guy. With a government-run health plan, you've got no recourse when mismanagement raises rates (taxes).. not that the government would ever mismanage or misappropriate funds.. :p The illegals are still going to use emergency rooms as primary care centers, and the rich will always be pampered (universal coverage or no) but at least private health care providers have to compete for that dollar. Somehow though, I don't think '08, whether Obama makes the cut or not, is going to be about healthcare in the end.

Same here. But then again, we are already paying for it anyway. every emergency room visit, every disease or heart condition caught late instead of early, every condition that people without healthcare could have prevented with regular checkups had they had the opportunity is paid for by those of us that HAVE healthcare. Those costs are passed on in insurance premiums and medical bills to the rest of us. So, really the only difference between universal healthcare and what we have now is that we will be paying for everybody's ounce of prevention instead of their pound of cure. I'm no socialist, but I know a bargain when I see one. *nod*

So I'm not the only one who's holding their nose (although, admitedly, I don't have a big red one to hold) and supporting universal-health care? I was feeling very alone and hypocritical. :p

Let's hope you're right.

Think they put Hillary up there so that people who don't like her, and don't like Bush, would be prone to vote for Obama? Sorta like a good cop bad cop thing, with Hillary being the bad cop.

Honestly, I can vote for Barak Obama in good conscience.

I cannot vote for Hillary Clinton in good conscience.

Let's hope you're right.

Think they put Hillary up there so that people who don't like her, and don't like Bush, would be prone to vote for Obama? Sorta like a good cop bad cop thing, with Hillary being the bad cop.

Interestingly enough, although I am not too fond of either Hillary's politics of too-careful stance taking and conceited self-presentation, she isn't so bad a cop as you think. She, too, is currently winning over the big time Republic Party members.

That should tell you how badly the Republic Party has fucked up.

Same here. But then again, we are already paying for it anyway. every emergency room visit, every disease or heart condition caught late instead of early, every condition that people without healthcare could have prevented with regular checkups had they had the opportunity is paid for by those of us that HAVE healthcare. Those costs are passed on in insurance premiums and medical bills to the rest of us. So, really the only difference between universal healthcare and what we have now is that we will be paying for everybody's ounce of prevention instead of their pound of cure. I'm no socialist, but I know a bargain when I see one. *nod*

Well said, sir! Well said...

I haven't seen a breakdown by class, but I'd be fairly surprised if the "less-educated segments of the population" were actually all that pro-war.

You see, ever since FDR seized office, there have been two segments of the uneducated: the country folk that grow corn and bang pigs, and the urbanites who live in low income housing and on welfare checks. Neither are smart, but because of FDR, the country folk vote Republican while the urbanites vote Democratic, and there are a lot more of the latter than the former.

As for me, Obama seems like an honest man, so far. He's come right out with his flirtation with drugs, something that Slick Willy and Dubya tried to hide, so Obama earns my respect for that.

And to the whole universal welfare thing that's being flung around the topic so far, I'm against welfare of any kind because the whole thing reeks of breads and circuses to me, and some of the rhetoric being used to support it reminds me of what the old Southern plantation owners used to say to justify slavery.

t.And to the whole universal welfare thing that's being flung around the topic so far, I'm against welfare of any kind because the whole thing reeks of breads and circuses to me, and some of the rhetoric being used to support it reminds me of what the old Southern plantation owners used to say to justify slavery.

I don't see that ever happening anytime soon so you really have nothing to concern yourself about. I was more curious with his plan to put broadband lines into poor inner city neighborhoods. Interesting.

...Announces after successful announcement of announcement...?

Is it just me or are candidates becoming more tentative as the media makes a big stink earlier? Or can we all just blame this on Georgie?

In all honesty though, Obama is the Democrats' best bet at this point. If the Republicans could just choose a candidate who isn't magnetized to the right, we could have an election where the American people won't COMPLETELY lose, regardless of the outcome.

...And on a bit of morbid humor, how long do you think it will take for the KKK to go completely apeshit (as if they haven't already)?

Though I'm not American I am also following this race for the Presidency '08 ( partly due to studying American politics this year :p) but out of the Democratic runners I'd go with Obama. Whatever you think about him there's is no denying he is making waves and is on many peoples minds. Also I think if Giuliani won the nomination for the Republicans we could see an interesting election in '08.

I don't want Giuliani as president; he's too autocratic.

Not my cup of tea really. And before I have a threads' worth of people advancing with the cliched racist brand, it is because the man is about as sincere and original as Tony Blair. I mean, who took his tub-thumping, ineloquent, poorly written and populist rhetoric as anything other than a joke?

Though I'm not American I am also following this race for the Presidency '08 ( partly due to studying American politics this year :p) but out of the Democratic runners I'd go with Obama. Whatever you think about him there's is no denying he is making waves and is on many peoples minds. Also I think if Giuliani won the nomination for the Republicans we could see an interesting election in '08.

You know? I agree with this statement. It would make a wonderful and interesting election.

Obama for President! :cool:

Don't know yet, but Obama is looking good so far.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y79/Goomg/other/created/fc014677.jpg

I attended his speech at Hilton Colliseum. I have to say, his articulation was amazing. However, it disturbs me that he never said exactly how he plans on providing universal health care or his other interesting ideas. I guess I will have to sit back and watch/read about his campaign to find out. His charisma was amazing, though, especially in comparision to the current leadership. He almost made me believe that all the world's problems could be solved through sheer diplomacy. I would love to believe that...

I attended his speech at Hilton Colliseum. I have to say, his articulation was amazing. However, it disturbs me that he never said exactly how he plans on providing universal health care or his other interesting ideas.

Name me a politician that does!

Long on needtos, very short on howtos. Charisma can only take you so far, then people wise up, and in his case it will be sooner rather than later. Easy to be popular when you are so short on experience that you've never done or had to do anything unpopular. The best choise we can make is a selection based on the Constitutional requirements and a randomly generated social security number. Seriously, it couldn't be any worse than what is on the table at the moment.