NationStates Jolt Archive

So, i was reading the USA vs. PRC thread and it lead me to this. How do you think a war between the two will play out?

I don't know much about the India's military and what they have or what they can do, do they even stand a chance?

What would China and Russia do? Who would help the US and India?

I know people hate "USA vs." threads but i wanted to know what people thought anyways.

Oh fuck. All our corner shops would close. I do not want to think about this.

Just because you have a billion people, does not mean you necessarily have a better army. India also doesn't have the same level of war hardware as the US does.

The clincher, however, is the PRC and Russia. China and India have a bit of emnity between them due to a war fought when India was still a relatively new country (think this was in the 60s). Russia, on the other hand, has been a very strong ally of India throughout the Cold War, especially since the US backed Pakistan.

well the US would have to deal with the commonwealth and oddly the E.U if India came under attack so I’m guessing everyone gets to lose

With that said Russia and China will most likely stay out of the war though Russia will no doubt give India whatever it can spare and China won’t have any major issues with America using its Airspace

Just because you have a billion people, does not mean you necessarily have a better army.

Sure, but suppose they invented a canon capable of launching some of those billion over to us as human projectile weapons, perhaps with a few pounds of high explosive attached.. could be trouble. How many million of those billion are on the expendable end of the caste system, half? 500 million untouchables with bombs hitting the earth on the Eastern seaboard would be bad news.

As for conventional war, we'd have the edge simply due to the power of the cow. History tells us that Cow = Strength. The British clearly knew this when they got the cow-eating Sikhs to act as their police and military forces. As long as we can handle the cow-eating 5% or so, we're in no real danger on the ground.

Russia wins!

So, i was reading the USA vs. PRC thread and it lead me to this. How do you think a war between the two will play out?

I don't know much about the India's military and what they have or what they can do, do they even stand a chance?

What would China and Russia do? Who would help the US and India?

I know people hate "USA vs." threads but i wanted to know what people thought anyways.

As an American of Indian descent, and my parents as Indian immigrants, we'd probably be under heavy suspicion, like Muslims are today (and I'd probably never get a date/a gf/laid). Neither China nor Russia would help India, because they'd want to preserve alliances. I don't know about the military, but they probably need a lot of help, because they ordered only 12 Chinooks from Boeing. America would win, and Indian-Americans would be shitted on. And I'd wind up really screwed up.

As an American of Indian descent, and my parents as Indian immigrants, we'd probably be under heavy suspicion, like Muslims are today (and I'd probably never get a date/a gf/laid). Neither China nor Russia would help India, because they'd want to preserve alliances. I don't know about the military, but they probably need a lot of help, because they ordered only 12 Chinooks from Boeing. America would win, and Indian-Americans would be shitted on. And I'd wind up really screwed up.

Possibly.. however, that whole Manzanar/Owens Valley area up 395 is really nice this time of year. And they'd probably let you plant vegetables and build a baseball diamond with good behavior.

http://www.continuinged.ku.edu/isc/previews/747preview/images/nancy/manzanar.jpg

Lots of clean, cool mountain air, and three square cow-free meals per day. Not a bad arrangement. :)

What, you can't think this through yourself?

Come on...

Whatever bad would happen to china, for india it would be ten times worse.

Possibly.. however, that whole Manzanar/Owens Valley area up 395 is really nice this time of year. And they'd probably let you plant vegetables and build a baseball diamond with good behavior.

http://www.continuinged.ku.edu/isc/previews/747preview/images/nancy/manzanar.jpg

Lots of clean, cool mountain air, and three square cow-free meals per day. Not a bad arrangement. :)

Cow-free? I don't practice Hinduism. I need my hamburgers, man. Besides, I hate playing baseball.

Gandhi would pwn the U.S. from beyond the grave. Because he reincarnates. No one can beat Gandhi.

Vengeance from the grave...

It's from Iron Man. Black Sabbath.

Sure, but suppose they invented a canon capable of launching some of those billion over to us as human projectile weapons, perhaps with a few pounds of high explosive attached.. could be trouble. How many million of those billion are on the expendable end of the caste system, half? 500 million untouchables with bombs hitting the earth on the Eastern seaboard would be bad news.

Of course, if they actually did that [not that they would in a hundred million years], practically every other country would be coming down on them for Civil Rights violations and war crimes.

The British clearly knew this when they got the cow-eating Sikhs to act as their police and military forces. As long as we can handle the cow-eating 5% or so, we're in no real danger on the ground.

That didn't work out too well for them. See the Sepoy Mutiny.

Neutron bombs.


Neutron bombs bring a whole new meaning to the old roleplaying standby of "Kill them and take their stuff"

So, i was reading the USA vs. PRC thread and it lead me to this. How do you think a war between the two will play out?

I don't know much about the India's military and what they have or what they can do, do they even stand a chance?

What would China and Russia do? Who would help the US and India?

I know people hate "USA vs." threads but i wanted to know what people thought anyways.

*cough* *cough* THIS WAS MY IDEA!!! I CAME UP WITH IT AND I PUT THE POST ON THE USA VS PRC FORUM. *phew*

Ok, thanks for making this thread because I am too lazy Xzcx.

US may use nukes, but India's Surya ICBM makes deterrence likely, if it is in service.

The navy is pretty good, but the US has an advantage in the number of ships, and same with the army (Think about how hard this is for me to say. I am from India), and Air Force, though the HAL Tejas, if it is present in large numbers, will defeat the F-16s and maybe even the F-35s.

Both sides economy is going to be hurt because the US depends on India for outsourcing help, and IT stuff. A war with India is not going to go well with NRI citizens, especially those in the US. Plus, don't forget, the Indian tech industry has many hackers at its disposal. A huge, powerful hack attack will blind the US net system of the Army and the country.

Plus, don't forget, the Indian tech industry has many hackers at its disposal. A huge, powerful hack attack will blind the US net system of the Army and the country.

Come to think of it, doesn't China have a surplus of hackers as well? After all, they've got a state sponsored firewall that's supposed to be one of the most secure ever designed. Stuff like that is bound to breed highly skilled hackers.

Come to think of it, doesn't China have a surplus of hackers as well? After all, they've got a state sponsored firewall that's supposed to be one of the most secure ever designed. Stuff like that is bound to breed highly skilled hackers.

Yeah, they can dance circles around the firewall.

Who wins? me. It would make for good t.v.

If the USA went toe to toe with India, I fail to believe that China and Russia, and, indeed, the EU, would pass up the oppurtunity to stick the knife in.

So, i was reading the USA vs. PRC thread and it lead me to this. How do you think a war between the two will play out?

The US would lose badly to the army of call center workers India has. They would go on overdrive and make trillions of phone call attacks and wear the Americans down and in short order Americans will be begging the Indians for mercy. :p



I don't know much about the India's military and what they have or what they can do, do they even stand a chance?


Assuming no nukes, India can hold its own for some time with the help of the Brahmos missile which can keep the US navy troubled for some time. The US does not have a base except Diego Garcia from where they can mount a decent conventional attack.

This is one of the most far fetched scenarios possible. India and US are more alike than different - both English speaking ex-Brit colonies, multi-ethnic, multi-religious democratic melting pots. Even the Indian constitution is closely modeled after the US one - the main person who wrote it - Dr.B.R.Ambedkar studied in the US and was inspired by the US constitution. Moreover, with the cold war legacies wearing off - there is increasing convergence of India and US interests in many spheres (Pakistan notwithstanding)...

The US would lose badly to the army of call center workers India has. They would go on overdrive and make trillions of phone call attacks and wear the Americans down and in short order Americans will be begging the Indians for mercy. :p

damn it you beat me to it, they would also call all the other countries untill they got so annyoed that they'd pressure the US into stopping the maddnes, which by now is ripe over the world with many people suffering a chronic fear of phones!

Has India ever even been in a war?!

Has India ever even been in a war?!

A number of them, mostly with Pakistan.

US may use nukes, but India's Surya ICBM makes deterrence likely, if it is in service.

The navy is pretty good, but the US has an advantage in the number of ships, and same with the army (Think about how hard this is for me to say. I am from India), and Air Force, though the HAL Tejas, if it is present in large numbers, will defeat the F-16s and maybe even the F-35s.

:rolleyes: Dude, be realistic....both the Surya and the LCA have not even been fully developed...forget about deployed. Granted, India has the capability for ICBM (mastered re-entry with satellites)...but it still has quite a ways to go what with the recent failure of Agni III. The LCA program also has not delivered as much as it promised. Wishes are not horses.

Yeah, they can dance circles around the firewall.

But are they skilled enough to affect US military lines of communications or disrupt critical services in the mainland?

Haven't you guys ever heard of the democratic peace thesis? No-one will win, because it can't happen:D

So, i was reading the USA vs. PRC thread and it lead me to this. How do you think a war between the two will play out?

I don't know much about the India's military and what they have or what they can do, do they even stand a chance?

What would China and Russia do? Who would help the US and India?

I know people hate "USA vs." threads but i wanted to know what people thought anyways.

Pretty much a re-tread of trhe US vs PRC.

1) All outcomes depend on the goals of the warring parties.
2) US cannot occupy India.
3) India cannot power project to US.
4) Neither has a realistic reason for fighting.
5) Thus it's a non-question. (Or, less politely, it's an equally stupid question.)

Has India ever even been in a war?!

:eek: Aryavartha, you want to spank the ignorant, or shall I, or shall we leave it at Boony's mild rebuke?

Haven't you guys ever heard of the democratic peace thesis? No-one will win, because it can't happen

:::Too lazy to look up the "Aw jeeze, not this shit again?"::: icon that get's over posted. The Democratic Peace Theory has been blasted out of the water on so many grounds - lack of empirical data, statistical insignifigance/bad methodology, logical fallacies, bad definitions; etc.; etc. - that suggesting it is akin to suggesting the geocentric astronomical model.

The wiki on this has a rather good run down of the critical objections: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_peace_theory
There's also a nice list of exeptions:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_possible_exceptions_to_the_democratic_peace_theory

Here's more:
http://www.hoover.org/publications/digest/3512216.html

(Also note that Friedman's "Golden Arches Theory of Conflict Prevention", while more clearly defined, is equally false.)

Aryavartha, you want to spank the ignorant, or shall I, or shall we leave it at Boony's mild rebuke?

ohaiyo gozimas Daistallia-san. I was not sure what made him ask such a silly question so I left it at that. Independent India has seen several wars and skirmishes

1947 - First Kashmir war with Pakistani tribals and regulars. Won the Kashmir vale but lost Northern areas (Gilgit and Baltistan).
62 - war with China following Chinese invasion and occupation of Aksai Chin.
65 - war with Pakistan. Stalemate.
71 - war with Pakistan. Birth of Bangladesh.
99 - Kargil war with Pakistan.

Add to this skirmishes with Chinese at Nathu La pass in 1967, Continued border firing and infiltration from Pakistan, Deployment of peacekeeping force in Sri Lanka, deployments with UN peacekeeping forces etc.


If you take this a bit early, the British Indian army has a glorious tradition too - being the largest all-volunteer force in WW II (2,644,323 by 1945) and handed both the Germans (in Africa) and the Japanese (in Burma) their first land defeats.

The US would lose badly to the army of call center workers India has. They would go on overdrive and make trillions of phone call attacks and wear the Americans down and in short order Americans will be begging the Indians for mercy. :p

Yeah, and when all of our expensive high-tech equipment starts to mess up who will we call for tech support?


Assuming no nukes, India can hold its own for some time with the help of the Brahmos missile which can keep the US navy troubled for some time. The US does not have a base except Diego Garcia from where they can mount a decent conventional attack.

This is one of the most far fetched scenarios possible. India and US are more alike than different - both English speaking ex-Brit colonies, multi-ethnic, multi-religious democratic melting pots. Even the Indian constitution is closely modeled after the US one - the main person who wrote it - Dr.B.R.Ambedkar studied in the US and was inspired by the US constitution. Moreover, with the cold war legacies wearing off - there is increasing convergence of India and US interests in many spheres (Pakistan notwithstanding)...

We're getting closer and more friendly as time goes by. I'm actually hoping India becomes a major superpower before China does. I trust you guys a lot more than I trust the Chinese to be major players on the world stage.

:eek: Aryavartha, you want to spank the ignorant, or shall I, or shall we leave it at Boony's mild rebuke?

Sarcasm is beyond you.

So, i was reading the USA vs. PRC thread and it lead me to this. How do you think a war between the two will play out?

I don't know much about the India's military and what they have or what they can do, do they even stand a chance?

What would China and Russia do? Who would help the US and India?

I know people hate "USA vs." threads but i wanted to know what people thought anyways.

They wouldn't fight at all. The US and China are much more likely to than the US and another democratic friend.

China and India dislike each other. What kind of war, invasion of India or the US? Both would be very hard (especially on India's part) to reach the other.

Both would be very hard (especially on India's part) to reach the other.

I should know. I used to go there every summer from ages 4 to 8. It took about a day and a half.

We're getting closer and more friendly as time goes by. I'm actually hoping India becomes a major superpower before China does. I trust you guys a lot more than I trust the Chinese to be major players on the world stage.

Aww, thanks. :)

Oh fuck. All our corner shops would close. I do not want to think about this.

Not to mention all the Patels, I mean Motels, that would be closed. This, too, I do not want to consider.

So, i was reading the USA vs. PRC thread and it lead me to this. How do you think a war between the two will play out?

I don't know much about the India's military and what they have or what they can do, do they even stand a chance?

What would China and Russia do? Who would help the US and India?

I know people hate "USA vs." threads but i wanted to know what people thought anyways.

like USA vs China, a draw...India is huge in population and size and the USA does not have nearly sufficient forces to subdue India... technical superiority or military experience does not translate to automatic victory(Vietnam, Iraq)...the invincibility of US military might is a myth, picking on little backward countries has proven to be more than the USA military can deal with...

I should know. I used to go there every summer from ages 4 to 8. It took about a day and a half.

i say it be long then that with all the gear use in making war

Sarcasm is beyond you.

For one thing, people regularly post that sort of question here in all seriousness.

Also, remember that sarcasm is notoriously hard to pull off on line, and is best accompanied by an indicator that one actually is being sacastic and not serious.

Thus, a question that appeared serious and ignorant was taken as such.

In other words, no, it;s not beyond me. You just fail at it. ;)

Hmm, I'm not a professional at predicting wars, but if things go the way they have in the last two big wars, Russia will end up contributing to at least 33% of the losses, even if they aren't involved!

But in all seriousness I'm pretty sure the US would win. Even if the two did have equal populations and technology, in the cold war the US stocked up on large numbers of ships in case it needed to go to war with Russia (for the same reason a lot of European counties involved in the cold war have built up forces perfect for invading other European countries) so the US would have a great naval advantage over India, and with such a great distance between them, a big navy is important.

America would lose hands down. Every person in here that is belaring about "America's Superior Military" has lost there mind. Look- that answer is simple. If the US cannot effectivley handle Iraq- we're not going to beat anyone- anytime, or anywhere. Not India, Not China, Not Russia, Not the EU. Iraq is seriously a very MINOR guerrila war and we can barely handle it. Conventional force dosent mean dick anymore. No matter how bad you whoop the Conventional army, you'll never ever be able to hold on the that country- guerrilla warfare has succseded in beating conventional war. And I highly dought the US could beat any of these nations conventionally anyways. The technilogical gap is closing rapidly- and the US military as so many logistical and economical problems its a joke. Not to mention the m16 sucks ass. And numbers do mean things, even if the US had a draft we couldn't outmatch any of those in numbers either. The US needs to fall back and refit itself if it wants to seriously challenge opponents in the future. Not to mention the fact that at least half the nation has lost its stomach for war.

Come to think of it, doesn't China have a surplus of hackers as well? After all, they've got a state sponsored firewall that's supposed to be one of the most secure ever designed. Stuff like that is bound to breed highly skilled hackers.

Indeed, indeed, but trained at the government's behest. And the PRC has turned them loose.

Third Chinese Hack Attack This Year

December 4, 2006: For the third time in five months, Chinese based hackers attacked a Department of Defense computer network. In mid-November, the U.S. Navy's War College had to shut down it's computer network because, as one instructor explained to his class, Chinese hackers had gotten in, and the Naval War College servers had to be scrutinized to see what was taken, changed or left behind. The is the latest of several attacks on Department of Defense computers, that could be traced back to China.
http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htiw/articles/20061204.aspx

But the government hackers have also been hacked themselves. :)
Hackers, apparently Chinese, worked their way into the website of a Chinese government Internet security firm, and defaced the company web page. This caused some embarrassment, although the company, Beijing General Security Service, was not noted for Internet security, but for hiring and supervising 4,000 "internet security guards" to monitor what Internet users in the Chinese capital do online. While much message traffic on message boards and in chat rooms is monitored with software (often from American suppliers), human monitors are needed to go after "subversive citizens" who might be speaking in code. China is making a determined effort to prevent the Internet from becoming an uncontrolled source of information the government does not approve of.
http://www.strategypage.com/dls/articles/2005756243.asp


Yeah, they can dance circles around the firewall.

Indeed. See the article above. ;)

The US would lose badly to the army of call center workers India has. They would go on overdrive and make trillions of phone call attacks and wear the Americans down and in short order Americans will be begging the Indians for mercy. :p

Actually, not too far out of a scenario. India has the base with which to build a very effective info-warfare capacity (if they haven't done so yet - I'd be very surprised if they haven't).

Assuming no nukes, India can hold its own for some time with the help of the Brahmos missile which can keep the US navy troubled for some time. The US does not have a base except Diego Garcia from where they can mount a decent conventional attack.

See below.

This is one of the most far fetched scenarios possible. India and US are more alike than different - both English speaking ex-Brit colonies, multi-ethnic, multi-religious democratic melting pots. Even the Indian constitution is closely modeled after the US one - the main person who wrote it - Dr.B.R.Ambedkar studied in the US and was inspired by the US constitution. Moreover, with the cold war legacies wearing off - there is increasing convergence of India and US interests in many spheres (Pakistan notwithstanding)...

Very true.

Hmm, I'm not a professional at predicting wars, but if things go the way they have in the last two big wars, Russia will end up contributing to at least 33% of the losses, even if they aren't involved!

Hehehe. Probably. ;)

But in all seriousness I'm pretty sure the US would win. Even if the two did have equal populations and technology, in the cold war the US stocked up on large numbers of ships in case it needed to go to war with Russia (for the same reason a lot of European counties involved in the cold war have built up forces perfect for invading other European countries) so the US would have a great naval advantage over India, and with such a great distance between them, a big navy is important.

It all depends on the scenario/objectives. (Get ready to read that a lot over the next few paragraphs. ;))

America would lose hands down.

Would loose what? As I pointed out above, this is the same problem as PRC vs USA. All outcomes depend on a variable that isn't defined in the question - that of the purpose of the war. The US could wipe the floor India in some scenarios and looses hands down in others.

If the objective of the war is for one state to end the existance as a modern nationstate of the other, and damned be the consequences, the US's superior nuclear stike capacity wins.

If the objective is for one state to occupy the whole of the other's territory, neither can accomplish their goal (for the same reasons again as above - the US does not have adequate forces to occupy India and India doesn't have the power projection capacity., and both loose.

If the objective is something more reasonable, it's a toss up.
For control of Diego Garcia, which is the only reasonably realistic scenario I could think up (which is highly unlikely), the US's superior Naval capacity most likely wins.


Every person in here that is belaring about "America's Superior Military" has lost there mind.

:confused: How can one loose there mind - if it's there, it's not lost. And what prey tell, is "belaring"? I can't find that one in my dictionary. :(

Look- that answer is simple.

Nope, it isn't. Neither is the answer.

If the US cannot effectivley handle Iraq- we're not going to beat anyone- anytime, or anywhere. Not India, Not China, Not Russia, Not the EU.

One does not equate the other. Yet again, it depends on the scenario.

Iraq is seriously a very MINOR guerrila war and we can barely handle it.

Indeed true, but for reasons of size. If the US had not foolishly drawn down forces after the end of the Cold War, there would indeed be sufficient forces to have handled the aftermath without this war blowing up war. (One of, if not the, key points is the force to population ratio of 20:1000, or 2% of the countries population. Due to the peac dividend, the US is unable to field a force large enough to occupy a country the size of Iraq.)

Conventional force dosent mean dick anymore. No matter how bad you whoop the Conventional army, you'll never ever be able to hold on the that country- guerrilla warfare has succseded in beating conventional war.

Demonstrably incorrect. Guerrilla warfare is most certainly beatable when done correctly, such as when the Brits did so in Malaysia.

And I highly dought the US could beat any of these nations conventionally anyways.

And still, yet again, it depends on the scenario.

The technilogical gap is closing rapidly-

1) Depends on who you mean. India? Yes. China? Yes. Iraq or Iran? No.

and the US military as so many logistical and economical problems its a joke.

Not sure exactly what you mean there. Could you kindly clarify what you mean? Thank you.

Not to mention the m16 sucks ass.

Not enough time or space to handle tahtone without seriously hijacking this thread. Suffice it to say ues, no, ands maybe.

And numbers do mean things,

Indeed they do.

even if the US had a draft we couldn't outmatch any of those in numbers either.

No need to reesort to conscription, and it wouldn't work anyway. The all volunteer force was sufficiently large enough (but only just) to have been able to have properly handled occupying Iraq, if done correctly.

The US needs to fall back and refit itself if it wants to seriously challenge opponents in the future.

Indeed true.

Not to mention the fact that at least half the nation has lost its stomach for war.

And yet again, (come on everybody, you all know the words...) it depends on the scenario.

In other words, no, it;s not beyond me. You just fail at it. ;)

True sarcastic kings, such as myself, assume the intelligent readers will understand that no one in their right mind would assume a large potential superpower has never been in a war.

The wink is for noobs. ;)