NationStates Jolt Archive

I'm just curious about how many people here give money to panhandlers/homeless/whathaveyou. There was just a piece on it on the radio about how the homeless population is rising in our area, and what to do if you're asked for money. They recommend giving blankets, food, whatnot, or donating to the local homeless shelter.

Do you give money if you're asked?
Do you feel guilty for not giving?
Do you donate anything to the homeless?

Personally, (and I'm kind of ashamed to admit it) I don't do anything. I sometimes find it hard enough to keep myself fed and sheltered, nevermind anyone just off the street. My grandmother would collect change she found on sidewalks and put it in a jar. When the jar got full, she would donate it to charity. I've been thinking about doing that, but I would probably just be tempted to buy more things with it.

Anyway, what about you?

yes on all your questions, but not a lot (mostly because i don't have that much).

No, because many homeless people have drug and alcohol problems, and I don't want to risk giving them money to further their habit.

I do, however, give money to organizations that help the homeless.

I donate my time and money to several charities. But I do my best to avoid giving handouts to homeless people. It doesn't help them.

No, because many homeless people have drug and alcohol problems, and I don't want to risk giving them money to further their habit.

if i keep it, i will probably use it for alcohol/parties too, so meh. if i lived on the street i think i would use drugs too.

not really unless they ask and give me something honest like they need a cigarette

Do box owners count?

Only if they have a certificate of hoboness.

if i keep it, i will probably use it for alcohol/parties too, so meh. if i lived on the street i think i would use drugs too.

Yeah, but I'd prefer that my money go to getting them off of the streets and in to their own home than spend it keeping them on the streets and furthering their problems.

I give the least homeless looking ones money, cos I figure if they haven't been homeless too long they probably haven't resorted to drugs and alcohol to escape from reality.

No, I gave a homeless guy a harmonica once though

Yeah, but I'd prefer that my money go to getting them off of the streets and in to their own home than spend it keeping them on the streets and furthering their problems.

yeah, you're probably right about that, but when i give money to homeless it's mostly to women with children or children, they often aren't homeless but need that too survive. or i buy a 'homeless newspaper' (i don't remember how it's called), half of the price goes to the seller.

No, especially not the zombie-looking ones in the central station.

Yes, occasionally. Never more than about fifty pence, it'll usually just be a couple of small silver coins that I happen to have in my pocket.

yeah, you're probably right about that, but when i give money to homeless it's mostly to women with children or children, they often aren't homeless but need that too survive. or i buy a 'homeless newspaper' (i don't remember how it's called), half of the price goes to the seller.

Oh! I forgot about those.

So then I guess I have helped in a small way.

yeah, you're probably right about that, but when i give money to homeless it's mostly to women with children or children, they often aren't homeless but need that too survive. or i buy a 'homeless newspaper' (i don't remember how it's called), half of the price goes to the seller.

I've never seen any homeless women or children around here, but I would most definitely would give to them.

I gave one in a shelter a turkey on Christmas Eve (it wasn't really an act of altruism, I had a turkey I couldn't use) and gave one a joint on New Years Eve 2000 because I had rolled too many.

I got no money, but I got time. I don't really volunteer much these days, but I really should.

No, no and no. Why should I feel guilt? I feel no emotional attachment to those people.

Do you give money if you're asked?
Do you feel guilty for not giving?
Do you donate anything to the homeless?

I always think about giving money, but I never do.. don't know why I don't.. So no.
A lil.
Does throwing food in the trash can count?

I've never seen any homeless women or children around here, but I would most definitely would give to them.

i don't know if they are homeless but they do ask for money.

i don't know if they are homeless but they do ask for money.

are you married by any chance :D

i have honestly not met a homeless person in australia, though i do sponsor a child in africa.

Do you give money if you're asked?

If I have any spare change, sure. Why not?

Do you feel guilty for not giving?

Nah.


Do you donate anything to the homeless?

I also give away cigarettes. Not just to homeless, but smokers anywhere. Smokers I find, tend to be magnanimous about this, we have a collective conscience. Gotta stand up for one another!

But donate as in... official donation? No.

I take money from homeless people.

I take money from homeless people.

But they don't have any to take...wait...now I'm all confused :confused:

Yes, I do.

There's a particular homeless guy I see from time to time, and I give him about $2 roughly every second time I see him. He seems mostly to spend it on coffee and potato chips.

But he's polite and courteous, and never harrasses people, so I reward that.

He's the only guy I help.

I occasionally give a little change when asked, but I try not to. If someone asks me for money for food, I'm much more likely to actually buy them some food, or give them any I have.

I take money from homeless people.

exactly its not like their the ones who have to pay of that mortgage

I occasionally give a little change when asked, but I try not to. If someone asks me for money for food, I'm much more likely to actually buy them some food, or give them any I have.

What's wrong with using money? Money's more liquid.

What's wrong with using money? Money's more liquid.

I would say it's a good way to make sure they're actually spending money on food; after all, alcoholism and drug abuse are, sadly, very serious problems among the homeless.

What's wrong with using money? Money's more liquid.

If I'm going to help someone, I want to actually help them, not fund their booze/drug habit. Besides, if I buy them a meal, that's worth more than the change I might pull out of my pocket.

I would say it's a good way to make sure they're actually spending money on food; after all, alcoholism and drug abuse are, sadly, problems among the homeless.

They're problems among the non-homeless too, but if a non-homeless guy asks me for money I don't hand him my cheeseburger.

They're problems among the non-homeless too, but if a non-homeless guy asks me for money I don't hand him my cheeseburger.

It's a lot worse among the homeless, far worse than any group within the non-homeless population.

They're problems among the non-homeless too, but if a non-homeless guy asks me for money I don't hand him my cheeseburger.

Because that guy probably has A) a job B) some place to live. A lot of homeless people are dependent upon drugs and alcohol as an imaginary relief from their situation. Giving them handouts just enables them to continue in their circle of self-destruction.

My tax $$ go to shelters they are more than welcome to go to. I will help homeless kids tho. Not with $$, but I donate clothes/$$ to the local teen shelter.

Because that guy probably has A) a job B) some place to live. A lot of homeless people are dependent upon drugs and alcohol as an imaginary relief from their situation. Giving them handouts just enables them to continue in their circle of self-destruction.

Giving them food won't end any cycles either. Really, people shouldn't look at it as ending homelessness by knowing what's best for everyone. If someone asks for something, and they're an adult, and I feel like giving, I'm gonna give; not second-guess them, assume they're druggies and try to stuff food down their throat when all they wanted was some spare change.

I almost never give money directly to homeless people, because most of them will probably spend it on drugs. I give them food or clothes.

What little money I have goes to homeless charities. I believe that they will give more substantial benefit to the homeless.

No, no and no. Why should I feel guilt? I feel no emotional attachment to those people.
Well, perhaps you have compassion for them being in such a situation that could happen to almost anyone?

Giving them food won't end any cycles either. Really, people shouldn't look at it as ending homelessness by knowing what's best for everyone.
I'm quite sure that every homeless person requires food to live. I also know that drug addiction is not good for a person, even though I agree that one can't assume every homeless person to be a druggie.

Giving them food won't end any cycles either. Really, people shouldn't look at it as ending homelessness by knowing what's best for everyone. If someone asks for something, and they're an adult, and I feel like giving, I'm gonna give; not second-guess them, assume they're druggies and try to stuff food down their throat when all they wanted was some spare change.

I don't give to people who simply ask me for money without some indication of how they will use it. They ask me for money to buy food, and they are specific about it. Since they're going to get more out of it if I just go ahead and buy them the food, no one has ever acted offended when I simply offered to buy them a meal. In fact, they often seem surprised that someone would go out of their way to do so.

If I'm going to help someone, I want to actually help them, not fund their booze/drug habit. Besides, if I buy them a meal, that's worth more than the change I might pull out of my pocket.
If I'm going to help someone, I'd rather do it without imposing my view of what's best for them.

I often find panhandlers here who will openly say they're raising money for beer or pot.

If I'm going to help someone, I'd rather do it without imposing my view of what's best for them.

Problem is, you're not helping them if you further their drug or alcohol addiction.

If I'm going to help someone, I'd rather do it without imposing my view of what's best for them.

How does giving a guy who can't afford to eat money he'll spend on drugs or alcohol instead help him?

I often find panhandlers here who will openly say they're raising money for beer or pot.

If I'm going to help someone, I'm going to help them. If they say they want it for booze or drugs, I'm not going to give them money.

Sort of like how I'll give a money to charity to build a homeless shelter or soup kitchen, but I wouldn't give money to build a liquor store.

It's my money, and I'll give it for causes that I agree with.

A guy tells me he needs food? I'll give him food. He tells me he needs booze? I'll move on. My money could be better spent.

I don't usually give money to panhandlers, but I've volunteered at a local soup kitchen on many occasions, and I've had a general policy for years of donating any change I happen to have in my pocket whenever I spot a coin jar for a charity I deem worthwhile.

I wish I could hand it out, but often times I don't trust them and what they'll actually use it for.

I'd hire them.

How does giving a guy who can't afford to eat money he'll spend on drugs or alcohol instead help him?

How does assuming anyone you give money to will spend it on drugs or alcohol help them? To my way of thinking it just further marginalizes an already marginalized group of people, by dismissing them with prejudgement.

I'm quite sure that every homeless person requires food to live. I also know that drug addiction is not good for a person, even though I agree that one can't assume every homeless person to be a druggie.

Yeah, but most homeless people you meet are.. uh, well, alive. We live in a food-abundant society. It's a safe bet that even the druggies will indeed use some of the money they panhandle to get food. (Not that anyone can seriously get much "drugs" with spare change, I mean honestly.)

I've never seen as many homeless as I did while on vacation in Chicago. I gave to them somewhat frequently, but felt better the time I gave one the leftover pizza i'd been carrying home. After awhile it seemed fruitless, and I would only give to those who earned it (street performers, etc).

I donate to homeless charities and the Mosque.

Never - if they're too uneducated to get a job, or too lazy to work their way up the ladder like everyone else, then too bad. Besides, I pay tax dollars to give them shelters and welfare, which ought to be enough.

I have worked with charities who deal with the homeless and others, before.

I don't give money directly to the homeless, I'd rather give through a charity. But I will give them a hot drink/food/cig if I can.

One night my friend and I bought a good $30 worth of Wendy's Jr. Bacon cheeseburgers and handed them out. It was an interesting night.

I was homeless for most of 2005.
Fortunately I was not on the street but living with my brother-in-law and then in a family shelter.
I will often give pocket change or cigarettes to homeless people.
The other day a homeless guy was in Dunkin Donuts but did not have enough for a cup of coffee so I bought him one.
And the week before that a homeless guy asked for a couple of bucks outside of the same Dunkin Donuts so he could get a coffee and a donut.
I bought him a coffee and a sandwich.

You would be surprised how good these small acts of kindness make you feel.
And the people I help out certainly seem to appreciate it.
I see them around town and they always say hello and cheer up a little bit.

A guy asked me for a dollar so i gave him $2.
The way his face lighted up and then he raced away for that bottle of Jim Beam, such a delight.:)

mostly i just buy the Big Issue, but sometimes i give money for no return.

I donate to homeless charities and the Mosque.

Out of curiousity Soviestan, how are your parents handling your conversion?

This just popped into my head for some reason.

Living in NYC, seeing homeless people is pretty much a daily thing. I think it is, something around 21% of New Yorkers are homeless? Well, I do see a lot: Yesterday I saw four, and I gave them each $5.

I'm just curious about how many people here give money to panhandlers/homeless/whathaveyou. There was just a piece on it on the radio about how the homeless population is rising in our area, and what to do if you're asked for money. They recommend giving blankets, food, whatnot, or donating to the local homeless shelter.

Do you give money if you're asked?
Do you feel guilty for not giving?
Do you donate anything to the homeless?

Personally, (and I'm kind of ashamed to admit it) I don't do anything. I sometimes find it hard enough to keep myself fed and sheltered, nevermind anyone just off the street. My grandmother would collect change she found on sidewalks and put it in a jar. When the jar got full, she would donate it to charity. I've been thinking about doing that, but I would probably just be tempted to buy more things with it.

Anyway, what about you?

i use too..then i had a cup of hot soup i had bought for a fella thrown at me with the,and i quote "wtf am i going to do with this" "i want money"

so i simply said...then get a fucking job you ungrateful drunk..it is 8:00 am!

i'll pay my taxes and let them provide shelters..they deserve food and shelter..but give money to a homeless person..never again.
i will say if i saw a women with children..i would definately offer some form of aid.
a ride to a shelter,food,etc.
i doubt a truly destitute person would turn down food,so i will offer that..but never money.
maybe i am wrong for being so pissed at the one individual,but it really soured me.

I usually just tell them to get a job and stop loafing around. I'm mean like that.

Sometimes, depeding on how they ask and what they look like. Once my mom and I gave a whole platter of homemade cookies to a homeless person at christmas. He lookes really hungry.

We've donated money to several local charities, and I've voluntered for NYC homeless services peoples. My friend's father works for them, so it's really easy to voluntere.

I donate to city harvest, which is a food bank for the poor/homeless. I also volunteer at a soup kitchen in my old neighborhood a few nights a year.

I don't give money to individuals - in general - because there are a lot of scam artists out there. However, if a homeless guy does something entertaining like a little dance or song that makes me laugh I'll give him a few coins for the entertainment value.

I don't give them anything, because I know a lot of them have drug/drink problems, and just giving one of them a burger isn't quite fair.

Instead I do a bit of work in charity stores that will help them. It's not much, but it helps more than tossing a few coins at them ever will.

If they have a dog, I might.

Otherwise, absolutely not.

Theres a guy in atlanta who drives to this gas station everyday in his little Honda, parks, and then wanders the area asking people for money. He makes a good amount of money from what I can tell.

He told me a really convincing story about how he needed just a little bit of money to take a bus to a homeless shelter.

Theres a guy in atlanta who drives to this gas station everyday in his little Honda, parks, and then wanders the area asking people for money. He makes a good amount of money from what I can tell.

He told me a really convincing story about how he needed just a little bit of money to take a bus to a homeless shelter.

thats a popular scam in most big cities.
i watched a guy ask about 100 people for a dollar for gas at a gas station(the "i'm out of gas routine")then i got bored and moved on...but alot of people gave him money,which i am sure he went and got crack with.

aramingo ave. in philly...and i was amazed at how many cynical people gave him a dollar...good socio experiment.

There is a guy near me who rides a bicycle around here and leaves it around a corner then begs people for money saying something to the effect of "My car ran out of gas and I don't have any money on me, can I have a few bucks?"

The poor saps fall for it all the time.

To my way of thinking it just further marginalizes an already marginalized group of people, by dismissing them with prejudgement.
Better to marginalise them in thought than marginalise them in reality, which is what you are advocating. Effectively giving them drugs most certainly does marginalise them. Giving them food and shelter - even education if possible - is not marginalising, it is including them.

Yeah, but most homeless people you meet are.. uh, well, alive. We live in a food-abundant society. It's a safe bet that even the druggies will indeed use some of the money they panhandle to get food. (Not that anyone can seriously get much "drugs" with spare change, I mean honestly.)
It's not enough to just have food. A diet must be balanced and the more food and the less alcohol/drugs consumed, the better.

Considering that the homeless are suffering from alcohol and drug addictions and often mental illnesses, giving them money is foolish. If anything homeless shelters need more money so they can give better care for these people.

No. I would instead offer to buy them food from a nearby shop (and, indeed, have done so a couple of times). It's common sense not to take your wallet out in front of complete strangers on the street asking for money, regardless of their apparent socio-economic status.

How does assuming anyone you give money to will spend it on drugs or alcohol help them? To my way of thinking it just further marginalizes an already marginalized group of people, by dismissing them with prejudgement.

I don't assume any such thing. They ask me for money for food. I ask them what they want to eat and get it for them. Maybe they really would have spent the few coins I might have given them on food. Maybe they wouldn't have. But what they actually got was what they told me they wanted - a meal.

If they were lying about wanting food, I guess that's their problem.

Never - if they're too uneducated to get a job, or too lazy to work their way up the ladder like everyone else, then too bad. Besides, I pay tax dollars to give them shelters and welfare, which ought to be enough.

Wow, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, do you?

Do you really think all homeless people are uneducated and/or lazy? I'll tell you what. You spend a week on the street with nowhere to shower. Then, with only an expired ID with an old address, go into a McDonald's and try to get a job. Explain to the manager there that no, you don't have a phone number he can reach you at and no, you don't have any other forms of ID and no, you don't have a car, but you really, really, really need a job. See if he hires you.

If they're sitting there quietly or have an amusing panhandling sign, and I happen to have spare change handy, then maybe.

If they accost me in any way at all, then no chance. In fact, I tend to either ignore or respond harshly to anyone who accosts me in public, whether homeless or not.

Many years ago in Boston I had a panhandler come up to me and ask me for money. He said he wanted to buy a cup of coffee. As there was a cafateria a couple of door down, I told him, "Come on, I'll buy you a cup of coffee and if you are hungy I'll even buy you breakfast." He said no and asked for the money again. As there was a liquor store nearby, I knew what he wanted. :( I didn't give him the money.

If they're honest about things, yeah.

"Got any money for a cigarette?" - Yes
"I need 2 quid for some lunch" - More dubious, so I just buy them some lunch.

I don't give them money. I give them a sandwich...a knuckle sandwich!

Many years ago in Boston I had a panhandler come up to me and ask me for money. He said he wanted to buy a cup of coffee. As there was a cafateria a couple of door down, I told him, "Come on, I'll buy you a cup of coffee and if you are hungy I'll even buy you breakfast." He said no and asked for the money again. As there was a liquor store nearby, I knew what he wanted. :( I didn't give him the money.
Those are the worst ones, I mean you would think they would at least be grateful to get their second (and healthier) choice.

Wow, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, do you? Nevertheless, his point stands. He assuming he does pay his taxes in the UK, it's wholly reasonable of him to expect his government to use that money to enable those in need of it, and feed, clothe & house those beyond helping. It is, after all, a welfare state.

Then again, you're entirely correct. Although he shouldn't need to have a fucking clue, as long as his shifting governments claims he's paying for a welfare state, the sad truth is that his shifting governments can only be trusted not to be truthful & not to be trustworthy. No doubt everyone'd be better off if he donated his money on his own - an absurd situation since a state monopoly is in a much better position to be cheap & efficient. It just elects not to.

As for the OP; I've been homeless, so yes. I do give whatever I can spare when asked. The money's not spend on hard drugs. The shitty 'income' begging gets people isn't near enough for that sort of thing. It's spend on beer, fags, food & weed. And those things are pretty much essentials if you wanna stay sane while homeless. If you don't want the smelly drunk homeless guy to be smelly, drunk & homeless, take him home or buy him a hotel room. If you want him to be an insane & thoroughly miserable homeless, don't help him buy his next beer. Kick him while you're at it.

I don't remember the last time I saw a homeless person and I hardly live in a rich area but I would give money to them if I met one on the streets.

I give change sometimes. Once I gave someone a cup of coffee. She really appreciated that. I should do that again.

Nevertheless, his point stands. He assuming he does pay his taxes in the UK, it's wholly reasonable of him to expect his government to use that money to enable those in need of it, and feed, clothe & house those beyond helping. It is, after all, a welfare state.

That wasn't his point. It was a side-nte to make him feel better about assuming that all people who are homeless are uneducated and/or lazy. I suppose it is easier to assume that they must be - as it makes their plight seem like less of a tragedy - and it makes it seem much less likely that it could happen to him. Most people could fall into poverty with a single major mishap, but none of us like to think about it.

Then again, you're entirely correct. Although he shouldn't need to have a fucking clue, as long as his shifting governments claims he's paying for a welfare state, the sad truth is that his shifting governments can only be trusted not to be truthful & not to be trustworthy. No doubt everyone'd be better off if he donated his money on his own - an absurd situation since a state monopoly is in a much better position to be cheap & efficient. It just elects not to.

I don't know of any government that claims to fully take care of those who are homeless. They put up shelters that might house a percentage of the homeless in a given city. They fund soup kitchens that might feed a percentage. Very, very few have what they really should have - places where a homless person can get a good hot shower and a shot at job placement. ((or, in the case of many, the medical treatment they need)).

A responsible person doesn't give their money to a cause - even a government-funded one - without finding out what that money is being used for and whether or not the problem is being addressed. As long as one lives in a nation with some sort of representative government, one can push to have the use of tax dollars changed. One can research any charity one gives to in an attempt to make sure the money is well spent. And so on....

Yeah I gave a guy 5.50 in change and watched him jump on a bus to NY. That made me really happy.

My dad lived under the boardwalk in Atlantic City for a while, so I guess I can relate a little. :(

I get hit up for money a dozen times on my way in to work, two or three times at lunch, and again about a dozen times on my way home. If I go out for any reason whatsoever, I'll get hit up at least two or three times. More than half the panhandlers I encounter are young and able-bodied men. They don't get any.

Better to marginalise them in thought than marginalise them in reality, which is what you are advocating. Effectively giving them drugs most certainly does marginalise them. Giving them food and shelter - even education if possible - is not marginalising, it is including them.

Let's review. You insist that giving homeless people money, is the same thing as giving them drugs, therefore marginalizing them.

On the other hand, you think it's better to marginalize them as people by assuming they are all drug addicts. Better to view someone as subhuman, than to ... uh, give them money?

I'm trying to see where you're coming from, but I just don't. There is nothing wrong with giving people money.

I don't assume any such thing. They ask me for money for food. I ask them what they want to eat and get it for them. Maybe they really would have spent the few coins I might have given them on food. Maybe they wouldn't have. But what they actually got was what they told me they wanted - a meal.

Well, okay. But I never hear they want to buy food - they just ask for money. I don't care what for - if I have any to give, and feel like giving, I do. Otherwise I don't. It's not based on my presumptions about their character.

On the few rare occasions in which I actually have money on my person that isn't a ten or a twenty, I give money.

Sometimes, if I see someone on the corner and I'm going to get groceries, I'll pick up something to give them (if I have the money), usually some fruit, a bottle of water, sandwich makings - basically a meal. If there's a dog, I'll add a small bag of pet food. Once, when my veterinarian was handing out free exam and vaccination coupons, I grabbed a handful and gave them out to homeless people with dogs.

That wasn't his point. It was a side-nte to make him feel better about assuming that all people who are homeless are uneducated and/or lazy. I suppose it is easier to assume that they must be - as it makes their plight seem like less of a tragedy - and it makes it seem much less likely that it could happen to him. Most people could fall into poverty with a single major mishap, but none of us like to think about it.Heh, I'm not usually one to be vague, but apparently I somehow managed. I took him - and you - up on it exactly because it was a inane defence of an idiotic attitude. The fact that homeless people exists in his society should make blindingly obvious that his reasoning's flawed. If the governments claim he's paying to help them, then they're both liars & failures. If they don't, then he himself is. That was what I was trying to say.I don't know of any government that claims to fully take care of those who are homeless.There's actually quite a few nations in Europe who through shifting governments claim to be dedicated to eliminate homelessness. Following the Brit's argument, he should demand his money back & hand it over to someone willing to do more than talk about it. That & overthrow his lying, useless governments. Anything less is inconsistent.Very, very few have what they really should have - places where a homless person can get a good hot shower and a shot at job placement. ((or, in the case of many, the medical treatment they need)).I had the 'advantage' of being homeless in a country where the shifting governments were dedicated to eliminating the problem & went so far as to make it illegal to be homeless (not in theory, but in practice). Which basically meant I got to spend a few days in a pen every now & then, when I got busted for not paying the various fines I was incurring by being homeless. In a funny twist, a friendly copper lend me Kafka's Der Prozess the first time it happened. I digress..
The thing is, unless you're very, very ill, shelters just aren't an option. I'd much, much rather be in a Turkish prison, and I'm in no way exaggerating. Shelters are hell on Earth. People don't leave those places with their mental health intact. And when you're not in a shelter program pogrom thingy, you're fucked with regards to state help. You're persecuted & denied everything if you're not in one, and the only way out of one is into a loony clinic.

The only two real escapes I've come across, is getting a job by some fucking miracle, or accepting the fact that you're an outcast & a criminal, uniting with others of your kind & building your own damn city inside the city. The latter usually leads to people establishing a business of some sort, and thus getting an income. Both, however, requires you're a singularly bloodyminded individual & that circumstances conspires to enable you purely by chance. In other words; it's about as likely as winning the national lottery without playing. And of course, if you're past 25 or so, you're fucked for life.A responsible person doesn't give their money to a cause - even a government-funded one - without finding out what that money is being used for and whether or not the problem is being addressed.My point exactly. Part of it anyway. The rest of my point was that private orgs isn't a solution. Sure, private orgs have the capacity to sustain a few people, but they cannot affect change. States can, they just don't. In a society with a state, it should be a tax money solution, not a private one. Homelessness kills people's spirit far more than unemployment does. Making people run from handout to handout is a piss poor idea, because it doesn't take very long before people can't live in any other way. It's a trap. And it gives the more fortunate of us a false sense of doing something, because handouts isn't 'doing something'. They just perpetuate a hellish situation. It's really not something people should get a comfy feeling over.

That, of course, doesn't mean you lot should all stop the help entirely, because the states aren't doing their jobs, so handouts are all there is. And when that's the state of things, you're wankers if you can't spare a homeless guy change for fags or a beer. It's a pittance to us, yet everything to them. If you really want to help, denying people shit isn't the way to go about it. Instead organise & pur your vast resources to good use: petition your governments/local governments/whatever to do something constructive for a change. That is real help. The rest is just putting a bandaid on a broken bone.

I'll buy them lunch and buy their Big Issue magazines from them. Sometimes I pass them a little leftover change too, but it'll generally be about 20p or so unless I can assert that there is a definite immediate purpose for it.

I haven't given money, but have given things. Clothes, kitchenware, bed linens, comforters, toys, whatnots and tools. PVA, a local mission and the Goodwill have gotten most of the stuff I've donated.

And try to give food when I can.

Never been asked. Been asked for a cigarette a few times but don't smoke.

I have to admit tho.. that the most important thing, in a lot of cases, I have not done.. and that's giving my time and energy. Like right now down in Florida..

I don't give them money, but sometimes I ask them to show me their permit. The only place I see them requires that they be regestered.

Well, okay. But I never hear they want to buy food - they just ask for money. I don't care what for - if I have any to give, and feel like giving, I do. Otherwise I don't. It's not based on my presumptions about their character.

It's not a matter of character - I can't judge a person's character by the simple fact that they are on the street. It has to do with the use that my money will be put to. I'm willing to buy food for someone who needs it. I'm not willing to use my money to buy them drugs or alcohol - which they don't need. I'm willing to buy clothing for someone who is cold, but I'm not going to buy name brand stuff. I'm willing to give to medical research, but I won't give money for cosmetics research.

I decide what causes I will and will not give to. If someone asks me for food/clothing/shelter, I'm willing to do what I can to help them out. If someone just asks me for money, I'm probably not going to give. I don't exactly have money growing out of my rear end, and I want what I do give to be used to actually help someone.

I'm just curious about how many people here give money to panhandlers/homeless/whathaveyou. There was just a piece on it on the radio about how the homeless population is rising in our area, and what to do if you're asked for money. They recommend giving blankets, food, whatnot, or donating to the local homeless shelter.

Do you give money if you're asked?
Do you feel guilty for not giving?
Do you donate anything to the homeless?

Personally, (and I'm kind of ashamed to admit it) I don't do anything. I sometimes find it hard enough to keep myself fed and sheltered, nevermind anyone just off the street. My grandmother would collect change she found on sidewalks and put it in a jar. When the jar got full, she would donate it to charity. I've been thinking about doing that, but I would probably just be tempted to buy more things with it.

Anyway, what about you?

if i have spare change on me and i can spare it (ie. i'm not just about to spend it) then i make a point of trying to give to individuals.

i'd like to give to local shelters or charities or something but i don't actually know of any in this area (i bet there are some here though as this is quite a poor part of town)

I don't often hand out money, but I do help in other ways, I donate food to the food bank, I donate money and clothes to the local shelter.

I was homeless for a while although I did have a car to live in (which is much better than most of the homeless around here) so I don't have that attitude that they are beneath me, or anything. I know they need help, and I feel like the ways I contribute help more than giving them a few dollars would.

I don't give money to the homeless or to charity.

1) I don't carry cash around with me often. I know, I'm a paranoid schizophrenic, stfu.

2) When I do it's for a specific purpose and no more than I'll actually be using.

3) Homeless people should make at least some effort to better their situation before resorting to begging on the streets. While we're not the UK exactly, or any of a number of similar countries, we do have a good welfare system and plenty of homeless outreach groups and charities that should be doing their job, provided the homeless people are doing theirs.

4) If they ask for food and I happen to have spare food on me, I'll give it to them. This has never happened, however.

5) I'm inclined to be cynical and don't believe 90% of the stories told by homeless folks to explain why they want money from me. Most beggars are likely to go and use the money on drugs, alcohol, or something else, and they spoil it for the rest of their kind.

6) I'm a heartless, unsympathetic bitch.

I think that summarises it.

I have never seen a homeless person in my life :P weird, huh?

It's not a matter of character - I can't judge a person's character by the simple fact that they are on the street. It has to do with the use that my money will be put to. I'm willing to buy food for someone who needs it. I'm not willing to use my money to buy them drugs or alcohol - which they don't need.

It looks like you're willing to assume they'll buy drugs or alcohol, and that strikes me as being judgemental of their character.



I decide what causes I will and will not give to. If someone asks me for food/clothing/shelter, I'm willing to do what I can to help them out. If someone just asks me for money, I'm probably not going to give.

I don't consider a someone a "cause."

It looks like you're willing to assume they'll buy drugs or alcohol, and that strikes me as being judgemental of their character.

No, I'm not assuming any such thing. I know that it is a possibility, and it informs my decisions on who to give money and how much I might give. I would be highly unlikely to give my best friend money if I wasn't fairly certain what it would be used for. Why would I give it to a total stranger instead?

On top of that, if I give a guy change, he's probably looking at getting less than a dollar. It's what I have on hand. If, on the other hand, I go and buy him a meal - he's getting a meal. I'm giving quite a bit more than way, and I'm ensuring that my donation actually helps him, rather than being pocket change that, alone, *might* buy him a candy bar.

I don't consider a someone a "cause."

Do you consider charity a cause? If someone I don't know asks me for money/food/shelter because they cannot obtain it themselves, and I give it, that is the very definition of charity. The individual person may not be a "cause", but charity itself quite often is referred to that way.

Of course, whether you agree with the wording or not, the point still stands. I decide what I will and will not give money for. I'd be happy to give my life savings to help a friend get necessary medical treatment, but I wouldn't do so to help pay for a motorcycle. By that same token, I'm happy to buy anyone who needs it a meal or a blanket. I'm not willing to buy many other people booze or drugs.

How does giving a guy who can't afford to eat money he'll spend on drugs or alcohol instead help him?
Because you can't know other people's best interests as well as they do. If they want drugs more than they want food, then that's their call.

The art of language.. Sometimes shit just doesn't work as intended. This, for example, gave me all sorts of fucked up mental images of junkies choking on dollar bills.a guy who can't afford to eat money

I do. Sometimes.

Because you can't know other people's best interests as well as they do. If they want drugs more than they want food, then that's their call.

Yes, it is their call. And it's my call not to help them get it.

If someone wants to jump off a bridge more than they want to finish school, that's their call. But I'm not going to drive them to the bridge or push them off, while I'd be perfectly happy to help them study for a test. Does that make me an awful person who just wants to impose my viewpoint on them?

Meanwhile, it is very possible for me to know another person's best interests better than they do. People quite often do the very opposite of what is in their best interest.

I have never seen a homeless person in my life :P weird, huh?

Where do you live?
Your name suggests you're from Finnland... if so, I can understand that, I cannot picture a clochard living outside in the finnish winter.

Do you give money if you're asked?
Do you feel guilty for not giving?
Do you donate anything to the homeless?


No, no, and only small-value objects, like a cigarette.
My idea of helping poor people is getting the State doing it, that's one of the thing I try to do by working in politics.

Yes, it is their call. And it's my call not to help them get it.

If someone wants to jump off a bridge more than they want to finish school, that's their call. But I'm not going to drive them to the bridge or push them off, while I'd be perfectly happy to help them study for a test. Does that make me an awful person who just wants to impose my viewpoint on them?
No. Failure to aid does not make you a bad person. We had a big thread about that about a month ago.

But it does prevent you from getting good person bonus points. You can't do someone a favour by refusing to help them. And here's why...
Meanwhile, it is very possible for me to know another person's best interests better than they do. People quite often do the very opposite of what is in their best interest.
This is going to get a philosophical.

A person's best interests are shaped by their beliefs, values, and goals. The world is, to them, as they believe it is, and their goals are what they are, regardless of whether you approve (or even understand). So, their best interests involve helping them acheive the goals they value within the framework established by their beliefs.

As an example, I present the Heaven's Gate Cult (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heaven%27s_Gate_%28cult%29).

Those in the cult believed that they would be taken to paradise by the aliens travelling on a spacecraft that was hiding behing Comet Hale-Bopp. To be claimed by those aliens, they had to commit ritual suicide. So they did.

And by doing so, they acted in their own best interests. They believed in these aliens and what they would do for them, and given that, their commission of mass ritual suicide was perfectly reasonable behaviour.

And this is why I insist you can't know what is in other people's best interests better than they do. They are always the experts on their own best interests.

No. Failure to aid does not make you a bad person. We had a big thread about that about a month ago.

I don't think that's always true...

But I wouldn't consider giving a drug addict another hit "aid" in the first place.

But it does prevent you from getting good person bonus points. You can't do someone a favour by refusing to help them. And here's why...

I don't help people to get "good person bonus points." I do it to actually help them. If I think what they are asking for is harmful, in my book, I am doing them a favor by refusing to help them cause themselves harm.

If I refuse to help someone commit a crime, for instance, I consider that doing him a favor (especially if he needed help to commit the crime). Now, he won't spend however long in jail for it. Even better if I talk him out of even wanting to.

This is going to get a philosophical.

A person's best interests are shaped by their beliefs, values, and goals. The world is, to them, as they believe it is, and their goals are what they are, regardless of whether you approve (or even understand). So, their best interests involve helping them acheive the goals they value within the framework established by their beliefs.

As an example, I present the Heaven's Gate Cult (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heaven%27s_Gate_%28cult%29).

Those in the cult believed that they would be taken to paradise by the aliens travelling on a spacecraft that was hiding behing Comet Hale-Bopp. To be claimed by those aliens, they had to commit ritual suicide. So they did.

And by doing so, they acted in their own best interests. They believed in these aliens and what they would do for them, and given that, their commission of mass ritual suicide was perfectly reasonable behaviour.

And this is why I insist you can't know what is in other people's best interests better than they do. They are always the experts on their own best interests.

If you define "best interests" as "whatever you think is best for you at the time," then you are absolutely correct. Of course, very, very few people use the term that way. By your definition, a parent who refuses a child the option of eating chocolate cake for every meal is not acting in the child's best interest - so long as the child really does think eating chocolate cake all the time would be best.

To most people, a person's "best interest" is what actually helps them the most. Suicide would only have been in the best interest of the Heaven's Gate cult if aliens had actually come and delivered them to paradise. Killing your child is only in that child's best interest if the child really would have grown up to be a dirty, dirty sinner who would have gone to hell and that child actually does get to go to heaven now (a recent mother's excuse). And so on....

I don't think that's always true...
I know that. But you're wrong.
But I wouldn't consider giving a drug addict another hit "aid" in the first place.
But he would, and that's what matters.
I don't help people to get "good person bonus points." I do it to actually help them.
But helping them gives you some benefit - otherwise you wouldn't do it. Since I don't know what that benefit is for you (for most people it's a feeling of satisfaction), I created good person bonus points.
If I think what they are asking for is harmful, in my book, I am doing them a favor by refusing to help them cause themselves harm.
Harm by your standards. Not necessarily theirs.

If you were hungry, and the only food available was peaches, but the guy controlling the peaches thought that eating peaches would damn you for eternity, he'd think he was doing you a favour by letting you starve rather than feeding you peaches. Why does he get to decide?
If I refuse to help someone commit a crime, for instance, I consider that doing him a favor (especially if he needed help to commit the crime). Now, he won't spend however long in jail for it. Even better if I talk him out of even wanting to.
And now you're assuming he hasn't already weighed the pros and cons of his planned actions. Once again, you're imposing your view of the world on him.

When cultures do this to each other it's called ethnocentrism, and it's usually seen as a bad thing. Why is this different?
If you define "best interests" as "whatever you think is best for you at the time," then you are absolutely correct. Of course, very, very few people use the term that way.
Because they haven't thought it through.
By your definition, a parent who refuses a child the option of eating chocolate cake for every meal is not acting in the child's best interest - so long as the child really does think eating chocolate cake all the time would be best.
I'm talking about adults. I'm willing to accept that children need guidance of this sort. This is why we don't let children buy liquor. But once someone is trusted to make decisions about his own life, you don't get to decide which of his choices are valid.
To most people, a person's "best interest" is what actually helps them the most.
But who determines what actually helps them? I think the person in questions is the one best suited to do that.

Some people commit suicide because they're in unbearable pain. But you don't know if their pain is actually unbearable. Should you be allowed to decide that for them?
Suicide would only have been in the best interest of the Heaven's Gate cult if aliens had actually come and delivered them to paradise. Killing your child is only in that child's best interest if the child really would have grown up to be a dirty, dirty sinner who would have gone to hell and that child actually does get to go to heaven now (a recent mother's excuse). And so on....
By that reasoning, prayer only fails to be a complete waste of your time if there really is a God. Who gets to decide that? Why not the person doing the praying?

The thing about most beliefs is that they're unfalsifiable. You can't demonstrate that they're untrue (the Heaven's Gate cult is a fine example of this). If you can prove they're wrong, why are you so convinced they are?

I know that. But you're wrong.

:rolleyes: It's useless talking to someone whose sole argument is, "I'm right and you're wrong."

But he would, and that's what matters.

No, it isn't. We're talking about what action I will take. If I think an action is doing harm, then I am not going to take it, regardless of what someone else thinks. My opinion is the one that matters here.

But helping them gives you some benefit - otherwise you wouldn't do it. Since I don't know what that benefit is for you (for most people it's a feeling of satisfaction), I created good person bonus points.

Hmmm. Randian, eh?

Harm by your standards. Not necessarily theirs.

Since I'm the one either taking the action or not taking it, my standards are the ones that matter.

If you were hungry, and the only food available was peaches, but the guy controlling the peaches thought that eating peaches would damn you for eternity, he'd think he was doing you a favour by letting you starve rather than feeding you peaches. Why does he get to decide?

Because the peaches belong to him and he will do with them as he pleases.

Of course, there's a difference between, "This action will cause you bodily harm," and, "This action will damn you to hell." I can demonstrate one of them, but not the other.

And now you're assuming he hasn't already weighed the pros and cons of his planned actions. Once again, you're imposing your view of the world on him.

No, I'm imposing my view of the world on me, by restricting my own actions based on my own viewpoints.

When cultures do this to each other it's called ethnocentrism, and it's usually seen as a bad thing. Why is this different?

When cultures force their viewpoints on others, it is considered a bad thing. Do you really think it is a bad thing, for instance, when a person from the US refuses to help a tribal society perform FGM?

Because they haven't thought it through.

Yes, you are the almighty Llewdor. Anyone who doesn't agree with you simply hasn't thought about it.

I'm talking about adults. I'm willing to accept that children need guidance of this sort. This is why we don't let children buy liquor. But once someone is trusted to make decisions about his own life, you don't get to decide which of his choices are valid.

I get to decide which of his choices I'm willing to help him with.

Of course, based on this statement, I would presume that you're against all laws then?

But who determines what actually helps them? I think the person in questions is the one best suited to do that.

If I am the one choosing to help them, then I determine what I think will help them. If they don't want the particular help that I am offering, they can refuse to take it.

Some people commit suicide because they're in unbearable pain. But you don't know if their pain is actually unbearable. Should you be allowed to decide that for them?

Of course not. But I can decide for myself whether or not to help them do it. If they ask for my help in doing so, and I think that doing so would be more harmful than helpful, then I won't do it.

By that reasoning, prayer only fails to be a complete waste of your time if there really is a God. Who gets to decide that? Why not the person doing the praying?

The person doing the praying does get to decide that - for themselves, and nothing that I have said contradicts that. However, if someone asks me to pray for them, and I think praying is a waste of time, then I wouldn't see any point in praying for them, now would I?

I'm just curious about how many people here give money to panhandlers/homeless/whathaveyou. There was just a piece on it on the radio about how the homeless population is rising in our area, and what to do if you're asked for money. They recommend giving blankets, food, whatnot, or donating to the local homeless shelter.

Do you give money if you're asked?
Do you feel guilty for not giving?
Do you donate anything to the homeless?

Personally, (and I'm kind of ashamed to admit it) I don't do anything. I sometimes find it hard enough to keep myself fed and sheltered, nevermind anyone just off the street. My grandmother would collect change she found on sidewalks and put it in a jar. When the jar got full, she would donate it to charity. I've been thinking about doing that, but I would probably just be tempted to buy more things with it.

Anyway, what about you?

Same as you, minus the guilt

I generally when working have food and drinks in my van which I'll give to homeless because I can't possibly eat it all anyway. Sometimes when getting food downtown I'll buy them some. I don't have much money myself and am usually a step away from being one myself, but sometimes food I can spare.

I hate the "you're just doing it to make yourself feel good" line of bullshit. It's like saying you do the things you do just to be a dick.

To most people, a person's "best interest" is what actually helps them the most. Suicide would only have been in the best interest of the Heaven's Gate cult if aliens had actually come and delivered them to paradise.

How do you know they didn't? My understanding is that they were to be delivered in spirit not in body.

Yeah, sometimes.

I do sometimes. However, it's kind of hard when you're a student and you need your spare change to catch a bus. If someone asks nicely, if I have some change, I'll give them about 50 cents. I gave a very poor woman a rose on Valentines day.

Spare some change?

/South Park

I give money to indiidual people, certainly, but homeless charities tend to favour men... I mean, one of the main shelters in York, for example, has not female loos... What's the deal? Basically, if I see them twice, I'll give them whatever change I'm carrying, up to £2.

How do you know they didn't? My understanding is that they were to be delivered in spirit not in body.

Nice work, sir.

21-2-2007. Isn't this a european dating system? That would make the thread a year old?

I thought I smelled the reek of death upon it.

I tend not to give money when asked, but that's usually because I don't have any. I gave a homeless dude some food once.

I would donate money only if it was in my self - interest. I am not an altruist

yeah, you're probably right about that, but when i give money to homeless it's mostly to women with children or children, they often aren't homeless but need that too survive.
here in HK, many of the begging-woman-with-sick-child aren't in fact mothers. They've just 'rented' the sickly child for the day to foster more pity and thus more money from passers-by. Triads are the ones renting the child out, so they take their cut from whatever's made.

I usually give a few dollars to a couple of regulars who hang around the ferry pier. Both have had horrific burns. One plays the harmonica - he's the one who I give most to. I appreciate that he's not just trying to pity me into giving money but is actually doing something for it (patronising of me I know but meh).
I found his picture on BBCnews last year:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/629/629/6251566.stm
He's 1.08 into the slideshow.

If I have change and the person seems to be incapacitated/old I give them the change.

I give to homeless people with creative signs, mostly. :p But, I wish I could do more. I'm broke, so I cant give to much and I'm to lazy to do charity work -_-

no cuz im broke

here in HK, many of the begging-woman-with-sick-child aren't in fact mothers. They've just 'rented' the sickly child for the day to foster more pity and thus more money from passers-by.

That's not even half as cruel as the beggar mafia in certain cities of India maim or cut off body parts of small kids just so that they can 'rent' these kids out to 'mothers' who beg at traffic signals. :(

Life is cheap in those parts.

That's not even half as cruel as the beggar mafia in certain cities of India maim or cut off body parts of small kids just so that they can 'rent' these kids out to 'mothers' who beg at traffic signals. :(

Life is cheap in those parts.
it's certainly not that bad here but from what I understand, they do keep the child malnourished to make them look more pathetic and then dope them up so they lie sickly and lifeless in the 'mothers' arms while she's begging.