NationStates Jolt Archive

Well shouldn't they?

They base their argument on vague scripture passages, so if they rely so heavily on scripture, shouldn't they be pro incest?

It does say in the Bible that incest is ok, or something like that. I can't remember any verses now so I was hoping someone could help me out. However I am pretty sure Abraham performed incest to further his race.

Well shouldn't they?

They base their argument on vague scripture passages, so if they rely so heavily on scripture, shouldn't they be pro incest?

It does say in the Bible that incest is ok, or something like that. I can't remember any verses now so I was hoping someone could help me out. However I am pretty sure Abraham performed incest to further his race.

Pre-Deuteronomy, OK. Post, no.

Well, as Carlos Mencia points out, the story of Genesis mentions two humans who were created by God - Adam and Eve. They had Cain and Abel, and they had three daughters. Assuming that we're all descendants of Adam and Eve, someone had to be getting it on with someone in the family.

Not to mention Noah. There were what, eight people? You need about 30 to avoid incest.

Lot and his daughters got it on too. But in fairness to Lot, those little whores got him drunk and tricked him into fucking them. Man, that is one fucked up book.

Lot and his daughters got it on too. But in fairness to Lot, those little whores got him drunk and tricked him into fucking them.

That wasn't portrayed in a positive light, obviously.

no i dont think the bible ever authorizes incest. it has a list of things that are considered incest. sometimes it contradicts itself.

sure lot's daughters seduced him so but im not sure that is put out as the right thing to do.

We're all Children of Jesus.

So we're all sister- or brother-fuckers.

no i dont think the bible ever authorizes incest. it has a list of things that are considered incest. sometimes it contradicts itself.

sure lot's daughters seduced him so but im not sure that is put out as the right thing to do.

But I am 100% positive Abraham performed incest and was not portrayed in a negative light.

We're all Children of Jesus.

So we're all sister- or brother-fuckers.

Well, Jesus was a motherfucker.

Well, I seem to remember a Bible story where a man accidently saw his sister naked and he had to perform some kind of ritual to cleanse himself. Sounds like a sign that perhaps God may not care for incest as much as you think.

Well shouldn't they?
Huh? Why? You're not making sense.
They base their argument on vague scripture passages, so if they rely so heavily on scripture, shouldn't they be pro incest?
Why not provide something to support that thought?
It does say in the Bible that incest is ok, or something like that. I can't remember any verses now so I was hoping someone could help me out. However I am pretty sure Abraham performed incest to further his race.
Or something...:rolleyes:

Huh? Why? You're not making sense.

Why not provide something to support that thought?

Or something...:rolleyes:

Look im kindof a bit wasted right now. But this thread was designed for YOU to provide sources. As it CLEARLY STATES.

Well, I seem to remember a Bible story where a man accidently saw his sister naked and he had to perform some kind of ritual to cleanse himself. Sounds like a sign that perhaps God may not care for incest as much as you think.

When Humanity is supposed to be descended from just Adam and Eve there tends to be an unavoidable situation or two of kissing cousins.

If God didn't care for it much you'd have thought He'd put in more than just those two.

:D

We're all Children of Jesus.

So we're all sister- or brother-fuckers.

we are NOT children of jesus. we are children of GOD and siblings of jesus.

same same but not.

stupid trinity.

But I am 100% positive Abraham performed incest and was not portrayed in a negative light.

abraham? incest with whom?

Surely if you are going to start a thread about Bible scripture you should spend a few minutes checking what actually says.

Having a debate where everyone is being all like "oh yeah man, I'm todally sure it says x," and "nah nah nah dude, it todally says y," is just a bit pointless.

Surely if you are going to start a thread about Bible scripture you should spend a few minutes checking what actually says.

Having a debate where everyone is being all like "oh yeah man, I'm todally sure it says x," and "nah nah nah dude, it todally says y," is just a bit pointless.

Look:

Well shouldn't they?

They base their argument on vague scripture passages, so if they rely so heavily on scripture, shouldn't they be pro incest?

It does say in the Bible that incest is ok, or something like that. I can't remember any verses now so I was hoping someone could help me out. However I am pretty sure Abraham performed incest to further his race.

I.e You help find sources.

We're all Children of Jesus.

So we're all sister- or brother-fuckers.
And mother-fuckers. ;)

When Humanity is supposed to be descended from just Adam and Eve there tends to be an unavoidable situation or two of kissing cousins.

If God didn't care for it much you'd have thought He'd put in more than just those two.

:D

Well, I can only assume that at the start of the human race, it was a neccessity to bend the rules a bit. Once that was out of the way though, I know that God doesn't give the thumbs up to screw your siblings and other family members. While this may seem weak (which it is) it is the best i can come up with. The Bible is full of contradictory passages, this is simply one more.

That wasn't portrayed in a positive light, obviously.

Wasn't punished. God turned Lot's wife into a pillar of salt for daring to look back on her burning home. Her husband nails his own daughters and gets nothing.

abraham? incest with whom?

Genesis 20. Not only is it not frowned upon, but God gets Abraham's wife/half-sister back for him.

And mother-fuckers. ;)

Beat you to it.

Genesis 20. Not only is it not frowned upon, but God gets Abraham's wife/half-sister back for him.

Well, Abraham giving his wife to another man to save his own ass was hardly a moral thing for him to do either. :p

Beat you to it.
I know, but I still couldn't resist. :p

abraham? incest with whom?

I believe his wife was his half-sister.

Look im kindof a bit wasted right now. But this thread was designed for YOU to provide sources. As it CLEARLY STATES.

I love your threads. Please never stop posting here. And always drink lots of alcohol first.:D

Still, you have yet to beat the "bunch of twats" thread. That was brilliant.

I believe his wife was his half-sister.

Not to mention that God made it so Abraham could impregnate her with Isaac at 90.

First every prohibition in the Bible was created to protect us. "Thou Shall Not Murder, ect."

Second every instance of incest in the Bible happened before the prohibitions were put in place. (Adam and Eve, Noah, ect.) So because they obeyed the law they had they were considered righteous and were not punished.

Third one theory as to why incest was not a problem for Adam and Eve is that because they were the first people God created. He created them with a broader genetic scope since they, if you believe that they existed, must have had all the genes that exist today.

So in conclusion no Christians who oppose gay marriage simply are following the law they have and by doing so do not act hypocritically by opposing incest.

I hope you all understand my rushed little explanation and if you have any questions just post. Or send me a telagram on Nation States my nation is my name.

Genesis 20. Not only is it not frowned upon, but God gets Abraham's wife/half-sister back for him.

oh i always assumed that abraham was lying about the whole thing. once you pass off your wife as your sister and its found out that she is actually your wife, you make up yet another lie as to why the first wasnt QUITE a lie. although is it still rather creepy.

god let abraham get away with lots of things that he wouldnt be happy if we did. that whole marrying your wife off to other men, for example.

in genesis 11 it makes no mention of sarai being related to abram's father

Look im kindof a bit wasted right now. But this thread was designed for YOU to provide sources. As it CLEARLY STATES.
First of all: http://www.section.at/img/smiley/prost1.gif Cheers!

Then - do you honestly think I'll provide the source for your funny claim? Naaaah. :p

So in conclusion no Christians who oppose gay marriage simply are following the law they have and by doing so do not act hypocritically by opposing incest.

I hope you all understand my rushed little explanation and if you have any questions just post. Or send me a telagram on Nation States my nation is my name.

Is everything in Levitical law good?

First every prohibition in the Bible was created to protect us. "Thou Shall Not Murder, ect."

Second every instance of incest in the Bible happened before the prohibitions were put in place. (Adam and Eve, Noah, ect.) So because they obeyed the law they had they were considered righteous and were not punished.

Third one theory as to why incest was not a problem for Adam and Eve is that because they were the first people God created. He created them with a broader genetic scope since they, if you believe that they existed, must have had all the genes that exist today.

So in conclusion no Christians who oppose gay marriage simply are following the law they have and by doing so do not act hypocritically by opposing incest.

I hope you all understand my rushed little explanation and if you have any questions just post. Or send me a telagram on Nation States my nation is my name.

In other words, Christianity has a Grandfather Clause. BRILLIANT!!

Is everything in Levitical law good?

Great question!

I would argue that the prohibitions in the Levitical law are good. The punishments for those trespasses may or may not be applicable in our society. However, the punishments are just as far as I am concerned. The justice of the punishments are only my opinion, however, and not something that can be effectively agued for or against.

In other words, Christianity has a Grandfather Clause. BRILLIANT!!

I would argue that yes a Grandfather clause is what it amounts to.
Kinda funny actualy.

Great question!

I would argue that the prohibitions in the Levitical law are good. The punishments for those trespasses may or may not be applicable in our society. However, the punishments are just as far as I am concerned. The justice of the punishments are only my opinion, however, and not something that can be effectively agued for or against.

What about the instructions?

For instance, are these good?

44As for the male and female slaves whom you may have, it is from the nations around you that you may acquire male and female slaves. 45You may also acquire them from among the aliens residing with you, and from their families that are with you, who have been born in your land; and they may be your property. 46You may keep them as a possession for your children after you, for them to inherit as property. These you may treat as slaves, but as for your fellow Israelites, no one shall rule over the other with harshness.

Don't mistreat Hebrews, but everyone else is fair game for enslavement and treatment as property!

2 When you buy a male Hebrew slave, he shall serve for six years, but in the seventh he shall go out a free person, without debt. 3If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him. 4If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her master’s and he shall go out alone. 5But if the slave declares, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out a free person’, 6then his master shall bring him before God. He shall be brought to the door or the doorpost; and his master shall pierce his ear with an awl; and he shall serve him for life.

You have to let a male Hebrew slave go after six years, but you can get him to stay if you keep his wife and children!

7 When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do. 8If she does not please her master, who designated her for himself, then he shall let her be redeemed; he shall have no right to sell her to a foreign people, since he has dealt unfairly with her. 9If he designates her for his son, he shall deal with her as with a daughter. 10If he takes another wife to himself, he shall not diminish the food, clothing, or marital rights of the first wife. 11And if he does not do these three things for her, she shall go out without debt, without payment of money.

Selling your daughter into permanent slavery is fine. She better hope she gets married by her owner or her owner's son and he doesn't like her, though, so she can go free.

20 When a slave-owner strikes a male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies immediately, the owner shall be punished. 21But if the slave survives for a day or two, there is no punishment; for the slave is the owner’s property.

So, it's perfectly alright to beat your slaves to death, as long as they survive a day or two.

There's an awful lot in Levitical law that seems....well, downright evil. I haven't even gotten into the treatment of women. Could it be, perhaps, that the Levitical law was not all intended by God?

oh i always assumed that abraham was lying about the whole thing. once you pass off your wife as your sister and its found out that she is actually your wife, you make up yet another lie as to why the first wasnt QUITE a lie. although is it still rather creepy.

god let abraham get away with lots of things that he wouldnt be happy if we did. that whole marrying your wife off to other men, for example.

in genesis 11 it makes no mention of sarai being related to abram's father

Yes, it does sort of pop up out of the blue, no? Well, then you have to get into that Abraham was a frequent liar and seemingly a bit of a conman.

Yes, it does sort of pop up out of the blue, no? Well, then you have to get into that Abraham was a frequent liar and seemingly a bit of a conman.

i dont see how there is any denying that. what kind of man marries his beautiful wife off to other men to save his own skin?

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that I believe both homosexual marriage and incestuous marriage are fine.

Having no religious background or religious convictions I see no reason to make marriage exclusive because of some passage in a widely circulated book.

Incest... well it seems to me that the with the advances in medical technology we have, we could determine whether siblings both have recessive alleles in their DNA and then use procedures like IVF to make sure recessive alleles are not passed on. Besides, we let non-related people with serious genetic conditions procreate, then why not related people with or without serious genetic conditions. The prejudice against incest can become ridiculous. It can be viewed as wrong that someone marrying an in-law is wrong? WTF? Their only 'related' because some piece of paper says one set of their relatives have already intermarried. Why the hell is it wrong if someone marries their step-brother/step-sister? Pfft, whatever. Stupid sheep sticking to social norms only because it's easier than actual rational thought.

Why the hell is it wrong if someone marries their step-brother/step-sister? Pfft, whatever. Stupid sheep sticking to social norms only because it's easier than actual rational thought.

What about marrying their brother or sister? Or marrying their parents?

What about marrying their brother or sister? Or marrying their parents?Sisters and brothers I have no problem with. The step-sibling was to show how silly views about incest can get.

With regards to parental incest. I'm not so keen on this. I see it as a dereliction of parental responsibility. The parent-child relationship isn't like any other. Most people will continue to emotionally depend upon their parents for the majority of their lives. I could only ever see parental incest as a parent taking advantage of their offspring.

Wasn't punished. God turned Lot's wife into a pillar of salt for daring to look back on her burning home. Her husband nails his own daughters and gets nothing.

They were punished, actually, because the kids they had were the predecessors of the Moabites and Ammonites, who the ancient Israelites saw as an evil people. Being the patriarch of an evil people is not exactly something you aspire to.

Sisters and brothers I have no problem with. The step-sibling was to show how silly views about incest can get.

With regards to parental incest. I'm not so keen on this. I see it as a dereliction of parental responsibility. The parent-child relationship isn't like any other. Most people will continue to emotionally depend upon their parents for the majority of their lives. I could only ever see parental incest as a parent taking advantage of their offspring.

yeah, well some species will eat their young if they get hungery. I'd say thats taking advantage of their offspring

yeah, well some species will eat their young if they get hungery. I'd say thats taking advantage of their offspring
lol

yeah, well some species will eat their young if they get hungery. I'd say thats taking advantage of their offspringWell you see I'm against that too. I'm no hypocrite. Babies may look like a tasty snack, but their very high in fat. All that breast feeding and such.

Well shouldn't they?

They base their argument on vague scripture passages, so if they rely so heavily on scripture, shouldn't they be pro incest?

It does say in the Bible that incest is ok, or something like that. I can't remember any verses now so I was hoping someone could help me out. However I am pretty sure Abraham performed incest to further his race.

Anti-gays got OWNED.

the bible is just one big porno

it has incest, rape, adultery and all your other fantasies in it and goes into alot of detail about them to

when christians say "look into the bible in times of need" now you know what they really mean:cool:

the bible is just one big porno

it has incest, rape, adultery and all your other fantasies in it and goes into alot of detail about them to

when christians say "look into the bible in times of need" now you know what they really mean:cool:Isn't the bible against masturbation though? So they must mean that in terms of role play. 'Right, I'll be Cain and you can be...'

whether you believe in creationism or evolution, we are still all part of the same family. We all have common ancestors, so therefore anyoe who has had sex with anyone else has slept with family :p

Well shouldn't they?

They base their argument on vague scripture passages, so if they rely so heavily on scripture, shouldn't they be pro incest?

It does say in the Bible that incest is ok, or something like that. I can't remember any verses now so I was hoping someone could help me out. However I am pretty sure Abraham performed incest to further his race.

If Christians were consistent, they'd be pacifists like Jesus...

Isn't the bible against masturbation though? So they must mean that in terms of role play. 'Right, I'll be Cain and you can be...'

yes but jesus emphasises that god *will* forgive you if you masturbate, so basically he's giving us permission to use the bible as material, i think thats why most people who believe in the old testament are christians rather than jews, becuz jews can only use it as roleplay material

Slavery was slavery in that you were not given the option to be or not be a slave but it was either a punishment for being in dept to that person or it was like a job with a contract were you were paid and then worked as a slave. As to the being alowed to beat the slave this we have to remember that this is still a punishment so it was not fun as all punishments of the time were.

Leviticus 25:10 Frees all slaves and servants every 50 years. Also this day every fifty years is when all lands are returned to the people who originally owned them this was a type of lease system. Property could not actually be sold permanenty. Lev 25:23 "The land must not be sold permanently, because the land is mine..." This shows how no one could be a slave permanently it was more of a job then what we think of as slavery.

Ex 21:16 "Anyone who kidnaps another and either sells him or still has him when he is caught must be put to death.

1Titus 1:9 We also know that law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers,
10 for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers— and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine
11 that conforms to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.

Ex 21:2 If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing.

Limit on the length of time that one could serve but you had the option to continue working for the person which is were the whole pirceing of the ear stuff comes in.

Ex 21:27 And if he smite out his manservant’s tooth, or his maidservant’s tooth; he shall let him go free for his tooth’s sake.

Not limited to teeth included all injurys that left permanent damage this is the limiting factor that prevents the master from beating a slave excessivly.

De 15:12 [And] if thy brother, an Hebrew man, or an Hebrew woman, be sold unto thee, and serve thee six years; then in the seventh year thou shalt let him go free from thee.

Limits the punishment to six years as the seventh is a sabbath year.

If Christians were consistent, they'd be pacifists like Jesus...

Jesus was not a pacifist. He on occasion was violent the main example being when he threw the money changers out of the temple.

Jesus was not a pacifist. He on occasion was violent the main example being when he threw the money changers out of the temple.

thats the only incident I've read. what others?

Well, the fun little thing about incest is that it is culturally defined. For instance, in America(And much of the Western world), most people wouldn't consider your fourth, third, and even somtimes second cousins to be incest(Infact, most people don't even know their second cousins). However, there are cultures which would consider it so.

Most clan cultures are exogamous, as everyone in the clan is considered kin, and thus no matter how distantly related you may be, it would be considered incest.

Some cultures even go further.

So meh, we all commit incest in the eyes of someone or another.

Well, the fun little thing about incest is that it is culturally defined. For instance, in America(And much of the Western world), most people wouldn't consider your fourth, third, and even somtimes second cousins to be incest(Infact, most people don't even know their second cousins). However, there are cultures which would consider it so.

Most clan cultures are exogamous, as everyone in the clan is considered kin, and thus no matter how distantly related you may be, it would be considered incest.

Some cultures even go further.

So meh, we all commit incest in the eyes of someone or another.

thats what I thought!
:cool:

whether you believe in creationism or evolution, we are still all part of the same family. We all have common ancestors, so therefore anyoe who has had sex with anyone else has slept with family :p

Well, I can only assume that at the start of the human race, it was a neccessity to bend the rules a bit. Once that was out of the way though, I know that God doesn't give the thumbs up to screw your siblings and other family members. While this may seem weak (which it is) it is the best i can come up with. The Bible is full of contradictory passages, this is simply one more.

That was basically right, but it is not a contradiction. After a certain number of generations after Noah, incest was forbidden. Adam and Eve's children were the only ones mentioned who had sex with their immediate family. There was Lot, but that was not condoned. His daughters were trying to get pregnant by any means possible.

Pre-Deuteronomy, OK. Post, no.

Deuteronomy's where all the morals get all weird and fucked up.

Not to mention that God made it so Abraham could impregnate her with Isaac at 90.

Hey, if this is all god's creation, then he created the stuff we derive viagra from. You don't think he'd go out of his way to hook a bro' up if he felt it was necessary?

Hey, if this is all god's creation, then he created the stuff we derive viagra from. You don't think he'd go out of his way to hook a bro' up if he felt it was necessary?

..."Hook a bro' up"?