NationStates Jolt Archive

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/02/09/francesuburban.violence.ap/index.html

Idiots run into power station, idiots die, let's blame the police! Pathetic.

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/02/09/francesuburban.violence.ap/index.html

Idiots run into power station, idiots die, let's blame the police! Pathetic.

"Let's punish the police for trying to apprehend criminals/Do their job" is what I got from it.

seems like people like trying to stop the police from trying to do the job that the same people pay for in the first place... ironic, isnt it?

or else you might be reading what you want to read.

what it actually says is, 'police charged with not doing their job'.

Save face, find a scapegoat.
Works everytime.

seems like people like trying to stop the police from trying to do the job that the same people pay for in the first place... ironic, isnt it?

It only becomes ironic when they complain after they've been robbed.

You might think that at first, but there are deeper issues involved in this case.

I don't think the two police officers can be held responsible for the fact that the two 'idiots' decided to hide in a substation, but tge parisian estates are in the shites. there is great unrest as deomstrated in the 2005 riots.

Scotland has the same sort of difficulty in that there are people who have had nothing their whole lives and therefore feel like they don't owe anything, or have anything to live for = violent neds/junkies etc.

I'm not for rehabilitation of criminals and softly softly approach - people need more discipline and respect for others - however living in estates one needs to bravado and 'hard man' attitude to survive.

Example 1. Jonny's dad used to batter his mum in front of him day in day out. One night at a party he sees a guy tanking his girlfriend and he sees his mum getting tanked - goes mental and stabs the guy 4 times. Ends up in a borstal (young offenders institute), seriously disturbed but becomes a bully to other inmates. - needed to do this in order not to be the one that gets stabbed and tanked whilst he is there. - estates are similar

The case of the french 'idiots' is not that straight forward. its that kind of attitude that antagonises the problem.

or else you might be reading what you want to read.

what it actually says is, 'police charged with not doing their job'.

That's what I read there, too. What's the problem?

The Potato Factory, Christmahanikwanzikah did either of you actually read the article?
The police are not being punished or castigated or criticised for not doing their job, they are facing prosecution for alledgedly having disobeyed the law. This is a rather common occurance, quite often when it comes to the attention of the relevent authorities that someone has disobeyed a law, the person is charged with a crime. Not only is this not a case of justice 'losing' it's actually the basis of most justice systems.

The Potato Factory, Christmahanikwanzikah did either of you actually read the article?
The police are not being punished or castigated or criticised for not doing their job, they are facing prosecution for alledgedly having disobeyed the law. This is a rather common occurance, quite often when it comes to the attention of the relevent authorities that someone has disobeyed a law, the person is charged with a crime. Not only is this not a case of justice 'losing' it's actually the basis of most justice systems.

Idiots get self fried, police's fault. That's what I'm reading.

Idiots get self fried, police's fault. That's what I'm reading.

Work on your reading comprehension, then.

Idiots get self fried, police's fault. That's what I'm reading.

Failure to notify the company that ran the substation is what I'm reading. Even if the runners had fried, the police wouldn't have been charged with dereliction of duty then.

First off. A substation is not the same as a power station. A power station generates power and a substation either steps up or steps down the voltage of a power supply.

Relevant stuff. It was these two deaths that sparked the riots in 2005. The largest riots in France for decades. The police reaction to the situtation was not... appropriate to say the least. The Interior ministry still denies that the police ever chased the kids. So they just happened to climb into a substation on an idle whim? Then we can ask - why would they be running from the police? The short of it is that the police can carry out ID checks in the Clichy-sous-Bois suburb of Paris and detain kids for up for 4 hours just because they don't have their ID papers. Hence it is easy to see why t-shirts with the slogan 'Dead for nothing' popped up during the 2005 riots.

There is a huge underlying institutional racism here. Hardly what one would call the triumph of justice. That these police officers are being prosecuted is simply the French government attempting to placate the black and arab communities in France, and to deflect their attention from the bigger problem.

Idiots get self fried, police's fault. That's what I'm reading.

Try again.
Under French law, everyone -- not just police -- must make an effort to help a person in danger as long as they or others are not themselves threatened by giving such aid.

Police didn't do this, thus police broke the law.

That's what I read there, too. What's the problem?

a lack of basic reading comprehension skills on the part of the OP, it seems.

a lack of basic reading comprehension skills on the part of the OP, it seems.

Are you really surprised?

Are you really surprised?

no, not particularly. but there's a small part of me that always holds some hope that the ignorant are just messing with me and they don't really buy into all the shit they regurgitate. i have to say, disappointment is getting boring.

You didn't really expect the Potato Man to know how to read properly, did you? After all, plain, clear text is so hard to understand:


The judge considered that the officers failed to advise the state-run electricity company that the boys had taken refuge in a local substation on October 27, 2005. They hid out to escape police whom they thought were chasing them, their lawyers have said.

[...]

One of the two officers charged had radioed headquarters, allegedly saying at one point that "If they enter the EDF site, I don't think they stand much of a chance," said attorney Jean-Pierre Mignard who represents the boys' families and a third adolescent, Muhittin Altun, who was badly burned but survived.

[...]

An internal police review of the deaths, released in December, faulted police officers for their handling of the incident, and confirmed the officers had indeed been chasing the teenagers.

It said that if officers had notified EDF, the energy company, that the youths were hiding in the power station, EDF technicians could have intervened 15 minutes before the accident. But the report said such steps would not necessarily have prevented the electrocutions.

Under French law, everyone -- not just police -- must make an effort to help a person in danger as long as they or others are not themselves threatened by giving such aid.


I should add that - contrary to what the Potato liar says - the kids in question were not criminals and had done nothing wrong whatsoever.

In France, "non-assistance à personne en danger" is an offence. That means that, if you know someone is in mortal danger, if you can help them, or try to help them, without putting yourself at risk, and you fail to do anything, you are guilty of that offence.

The policemen had a duty - not as policemen, but as French citizens - to try and save those two kids, simply by taking an easy step to make sure the electricity was turned off. They didn't do that.

You can twist this in any way you want, but the facts are simple. There are laws. If you break the law, there are consequences.

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/02/09/francesuburban.violence.ap/index.html

Idiots run into power station, idiots die, let's blame the police! Pathetic.

"Let's punish the police for trying to apprehend criminals/Do their job" is what I got from it.

seems like people like trying to stop the police from trying to do the job that the same people pay for in the first place... ironic, isnt it?

Ahem.
The judge considered that the officers failed to advise the state-run electricity company that the boys had taken refuge in a local substation on October 27, 2005.
Sounds to me like they didn't follow procedures and some kids died as a result. There's no guarantee that if they'd followed procedures that the kids wouldn't have died anyway, but there was a better chance that they would have survived if the cops had done what they were supposed to.

You can twist this in any way you want, but the facts are simple. There are laws. If you break the law, there are consequences.

Well guess what? Your laws are retarded. They're just as bad as Hitler's laws against Jews.

Ahem.

Sounds to me like they didn't follow procedures and some kids died as a result. There's no guarantee that if they'd followed procedures that the kids wouldn't have died anyway, but there was a better chance that they would have survived if the cops had done what they were supposed to.

If you run into a fucking power station, you fucking DESERVE to die.

Well guess what? Your laws are retarded. They're just as bad as Hitler's laws against Jews.

Being arrested if you fail to help someone Vs Nuremberg Laws, forcing Jews to wear badges identifying them, the Kristallnacht...

Yes, I can indeed see how those are exactly the same...

If you run into a fucking power station, you fucking DESERVE to die.

If you're being hounded by police who can arrest you for not having ID Cards, and a power station is the only place you can hide, it really isn't that 'retarded' as you put it. The survival instinct isn't exactly an intelligent one.

Being arrested if you fail to help someone Vs Nuremberg Laws, forcing Jews to wear badges identifying them, the Kristallnacht...

Yes, I can indeed see how those are exactly the same...

Hey, you know what? Maybe the police should just stop doing everything. Let society go to hell. Then we'll see how you like it. Damn anti-police people.

If you're being hounded by police who can arrest you for not having ID Cards, and a power station is the only place you can hide, it really isn't that 'retarded' as you put it. The survival instinct isn't exactly an intelligent one.

You know what? Fucking GIVE UP. If you'd rather go into a power plant and get fried than give yourself up like a man, you deserve to get fried.

Good fucking lord. Holding police accountable for not following their own procedures is being anti-police? How do you manage to remember to breathe on your own?

They don't HAVE to protect you, you know. From now on, I expect you to refuse police aid in all situations, since you hate them so much.

Hey, you know what? Maybe the police should just stop doing everything. Let society go to hell. Then we'll see how you like it. Damn anti-police people.

I am in no way anti-police. Please don't make such irrational strawman. However, those policemen knew the law, and they did nothing at all to report that the two kids were inside the power station. Thus, they broke one of the fundamental laws of French law, and they will be punished for it.

An open and shut case.

Hey, you know what? Maybe the police should just stop doing everything. Let society go to hell. Then we'll see how you like it. Damn anti-police people.

Good fucking lord. Holding police accountable for not following their own procedures is being anti-police? How do you manage to remember to breathe on your own?

Well guess what? Your laws are retarded. They're just as bad as Hitler's laws against Jews.

So... A law saying you have an obligation to save someone's life if it doesn't put you at risk = slaughtering millions of people.

Yee-e-es... Have you been taking your medication recently?

They don't HAVE to protect you, you know. From now on, I expect you to refuse police aid in all situations, since you hate them so much.

Again, how is holding the police accountable for breaking one of the fundamental laws of French law being 'anti-police'?

Good fucking lord. Holding police accountable for not following their own procedures is being anti-police? How do you manage to remember to breathe on your own?

Makes you wonder, doesn't it?

Expecting people not to break the law = being "anti-police"! Of course! It's all clear to me now... :rolleyes:

Hey, you know what? Maybe the police should just stop doing everything. Let society go to hell. Then we'll see how you like it. Damn anti-police people.

Oh, isn't that cute?
Now that he realises that he can't read, people who speak out for upholding the law are anti-police.
Last time I checked upholding the law WAS the job of the police... and they failed miserably in this case.

If you run into a fucking power station, you fucking DESERVE to die.

Here's some interesting news to you : according to most countries in the developed world, NOBODY desevers to die.

Well guess what? Your laws are retarded. They're just as bad as Hitler's laws against Jews.
Welcome to Godwin City, Pop. You
If you run into a fucking power station, you fucking DESERVE to die.
What if you're chased into one?
Hey, you know what? Maybe the police should just stop doing everything. Let society go to hell. Then we'll see how you like it. Damn anti-police people.
Everyone in France is covered in France, not just the police. Try reading the article.
You know what? Fucking GIVE UP. If you'd rather go into a power plant and get fried than give yourself up like a man, you deserve to get fried.
Yes, giving up and subjugating yourself to those godlike supermen who walk among us, The Police, is sooooo manly.
They don't HAVE to protect you, you know. From now on, I expect you to refuse police aid in all situations, since you hate them so much.
Actually, in France they, and everyone else, do have to help you.

And I expect you to go to your nearest police station and offer to go down on all of them, since you love them so much.

Again, how is holding the police accountable for breaking one of the fundamental laws of French law being 'anti-police'?

Because the law is stupid.

Last time I checked upholding the law WAS the job of the police... and they failed miserably in this case.

And suddenly, they're fucking supervillains! You're so much more brave, aren't you?

Seems like a perfectly reasonable law to me.

Any laws that forces you to help idiots is a retarded law.

Because the law is stupid.

So, whenever somebody sees you having a car accident, or notices you're drowning, they should just walk on and simply leave you to it?

And, yes, I know, this does indeed sound tempting to a lot of you out there.

Because the law is stupid.

That still doesn't explain how that makes us all 'anti-police', now does it? The police are duty-bound to support that law, however 'stupid' you may think it is. To otherwise do so is to go against their duty and their job.

Because the law is stupid.

Seems like a perfectly reasonable law to me.

What if you're chased into one?

You're never chased into one. You either choose to go in, or not.

And suddenly, they're fucking supervillains! You're so much more brave, aren't you?

They failed to uphold a law and do an extremely easy thing - inform the proper authorities about the incident. They did not, so they will be punished.

End of the matter.

Here's some interesting news to you : according to most countries in the developed world, NOBODY desevers to die.

Here's some news for you; I don't care.

You're never chased into one. You either choose to go in, or not.

If stupidity would be reason enough to simply let people get killed, you of all people would lead a hazardous life, honey.

And suddenly, they're fucking supervillains! You're so much more brave, aren't you?

Considering the broke the law, they're villians at best. Hardly supervillians.


And who was claiming to be more brave than the unnamed police officers in question?

Well guess what? Your laws are retarded. They're just as bad as Hitler's laws against Jews.

lol, that's got to be the most gratuitous example of godwin's law i've ever seen! at least most people try and make at least a leap of logic to get there. you just seem to have teleported, and i think a fly must have got into the machine with you as you seem to have switched brains.

You're never chased into one. You either choose to go in, or not.

This makes no sense at all. What magic powers do French substations have that prevent people from being chased into them?

This makes no sense at all. What magic powers do French substations have that prevent people from being chased into them?

Uhh, fucking, stop running from the police?

If stupidity would be reason enough to simply let people get killed, you of all people would lead a hazardous life, honey.

Well, apparently, I'm not dumb enough to run into a FUCKING LIVE POWER STATION.

Uhh, fucking, stop running from the police?

Waste your day in the police station for not having ID or run?

And don't feel you have to answer, we know you'd say you'd waste your day. or claim you'd have ID.

Uhh, fucking, stop running from the police?

And if you are afraid of those police and what they might do to you? Not just being interrogated, but being arrested and imprisoned? Given the state of France at the time of the incident, the two teenagers had more than enough reason to try and escape from the authorities.

Look, regardless of whether the law is 'stupid' or not, the policemen failed to uphold it. They therefore broke the law and will be punished for it. That's the end of the story.

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/02/09/francesuburban.violence.ap/index.html

Idiots run into power station, idiots die, let's blame the police! Pathetic.

Stupid idiot.

Well, apparently, I'm not dumb enough to run into a FUCKING LIVE POWER STATION.

Dumb, scared. So similar, so easy to get mixed up.




Oh wait........

This story does sound anti-police to me as well.

The police may be should have notified someone at the power company but that may not have changed things.

This just sounds like a horrible accident to me. I do not see how the police can be blamed?

These kids were evading lawful detainment. Resisting arrest, basically?

The police were just suppose to let them get away?

Isn't this what we pay them for?

This story does sound anti-police to me as well.

The police may be should have notified someone at the power company but that may not have changed things.

This just sounds like a horrible accident to me. I do not see how the police can be blamed?

These kids were evading lawful detainment. Resisting arrest, basically?

The police were just suppose to let them get away?

Isn't this what we pay them for?

Did the police officers know that calling the power company wouldn't have helped? Chances are they have some kind of emergency shut off, and you can't really get electrocuted if the substation is turned off.

This story does sound anti-police to me as well.

The police may be should have notified someone at the power company but that may not have changed things.

This just sounds like a horrible accident to me. I do not see how the police can be blamed?

These kids were evading lawful detainment. Resisting arrest, basically?

The police were just suppose to let them get away?

Isn't this what we pay them for?

I'm sorry, but how is this hard to get? The policemen broke a law, regardless of opinions of the law or the dead individuals. Thus, they will be punished.

This story does sound anti-police to me as well.

The police may be should have notified someone at the power company but that may not have changed things.

This just sounds like a horrible accident to me. I do not see how the police can be blamed?

These kids were evading lawful detainment. Resisting arrest, basically?

The police were just suppose to let them get away?

Isn't this what we pay them for?

The police SAW that the two youths were in a dangerous situation, and did nothing to help in any way.
Imagine a speeder being chased by a highway patrol, wrapping his car around a tree and the police simply driving on leaving the scene of the accident.
Still sound anti-police?

Look, regardless of whether the law is 'stupid' or not, the policemen failed to uphold it. They therefore broke the law and will be punished for it. That's the end of the story.

Pfhhh. The French are pathetic. Not even standing up to defend their police. If they tried to pull this shit against our cops here, we'd riot.

Pfhhh. The French are pathetic. Not even standing up to defend their police. If they tried to pull this shit against our cops here, we'd riot.

bollocks you would.

bollocks you would.

Wouldn't be the first time we riot against idiocy.

I say you have a bigger problem if you are afraid of the police.

that's a problem with the society, not with the individual.

And if you are afraid of those police and what they might do to you? Not just being interrogated, but being arrested and imprisoned? Given the state of France at the time of the incident, the two teenagers had more than enough reason to try and escape from the authorities.

Look, regardless of whether the law is 'stupid' or not, the policemen failed to uphold it. They therefore broke the law and will be punished for it. That's the end of the story.



I say you have a bigger problem if you are afraid of the police.

So, what logical leap did you make that convinced you that the law doesn't apply to the police?

I think stupid laws don't apply to anybody.

Pfhhh. The French are pathetic. Not even standing up to defend their police. If they tried to pull this shit against our cops here, we'd riot.

Right... so you have cops who unilaterally decide which laws they want to obey and which they choose not to, and you'd of course riot if this led to the death of two citizens and the cops in question were held responsible.

I think you're just trolling now. Not even YOU can really be that ignorant.

Pfhhh. The French are pathetic. Not even standing up to defend their police. If they tried to pull this shit against our cops here, we'd riot.

If your police broke the law and were being punished for doing so, you'd riot?



So, what logical leap did you make that convinced you that the law doesn't apply to the police?

I think stupid laws don't apply to anybody.

then you are wrong. and stupid. go riot against yourself and save the rest of us the hassle.

I say you have a bigger problem if you are afraid of the police.

A) That didn't answer my question

B) During the riots in France, the atmosphere and the general ill-feeling towards the authorities would certainly have created a feeling of distrust with the police, which could easily have spread to fear.

A) That didn't answer my question

B) During the riots in France, the atmosphere and the general ill-feeling towards the authorities would certainly have created a feeling of distrust with the police, which could easily have spread to fear.

I think you got point B mixed up a bit... the riots happened after those two kids died. This incident set off the riots.

I think stupid laws don't apply to anybody.

Yes, stupid laws like helping other people, without endangering yourself. What a retarded thing to expect. In fact, there should be laws encouraging us to fuck each other over as much as possible.



:rolleyes:

Oh snap, timewarp.

I think you got point B mixed up a bit... the riots happened after those two kids died. This incident set off the riots.

Ah. Well, some people still don't like the police. But the point is immaterial. The policemen broke a law (Stupid or not) and will be punished.

I'm confused as to how this is causing so much argument.

lol, that's got to be the most gratuitous example of godwin's law i've ever seen!

Indeed. If it didn't make my sig too long, I'd have sigged it.

Yes, stupid laws like helping other people, without endangering yourself. What a retarded thing to expect. In fact, there should be laws encouraging us to fuck each other over as much as possible.

There already are. It's called capitalism. And it's SWEET.

Ah. Well, some people still don't like the police. But the point is immaterial. The policemen broke a law (Stupid or not) and will be punished.

I'm confused as to how this is causing so much argument.

it's just feeding time for this particular troll i think.

Ah. Well, some people still don't like the police. But the point is immaterial. The policemen broke a law (Stupid or not) and will be punished.

I'm confused as to how this is causing so much argument.

Apparently it only takes on little anti-Muslim troll with reading comprehension difficulties.... the rest of us are just enjoying the ride, mostly. ;)

There already are. It's called capitalism. And it's SWEET.

Honey, I can see you're confused. Capitalism is an economic model, not a legal system.
And it doesn't allow you to stand by and watch when people's lives are in dager.

Apparently it only takes on little anti-Muslim troll with reading comprehension difficulties.... the rest of us are just enjoying the ride, mostly. ;)

I know this thread is making me smile.

Apparently it only takes on little anti-Muslim troll with reading comprehension difficulties.... the rest of us are just enjoying the ride, mostly. ;)

Meh. I've known TPF in his various guises, and this is a rather mild outburst. He hasn't called me a mass rapist yet, for example.

But still, there are surely better things to use as trolling. This is an open and shut case.

There already are. It's called capitalism. And it's SWEET.

Capitalism encourages you to let other people die? How barbaric.

It is very easy for an accident to happen in a substation. I still do not see how that is the police fault. Not only should the teenagers not have run in a substation, they should not have been running in the first place. Hell in the US you could get shot....


I don't care if you don't want to spend all day answering questions too bad.....

Beats the alternative doesn't it?

This story does sound anti-police to me as well.Doesn't to me.The police may be should have notified someone at the power company but that may not have changed things.Or it might have saved two lives. We'll probably never know.This just sounds like a horrible accident to me.Maybe it was. Shit's been known to happen.I do not see how the police can be blamed?That's because you've got your eyes closed & your fingers in your ears. The police shouldn't just 'perhaps have called'. It was illegal not to.These kids were evading lawful detainment. Resisting arrest, basically? Then again, when you're a youth from the wrong side of town, chances are you've already been arrested at least a handful of time for no fucking reason. Chances are you or your close friends have had the shit kicked out of them by police, and if you've done nothing wrong, but still get chased around town by coppers, chances are you'll think they intend to do you harm. Badly.
Makes no sense running? Fuck that. The kids were unarmed. Of course they ran. Anyone in their position would have. In a perfect world, coppers & muggers wouldn't be the same damn thing. But this isn't a perfect world.The police were just suppose to let them get away? That's debatable, but not what this particular debate's about. The coppers were supposed to contact the proper authorities. They chose not to obey the law & neglected to make the call.Isn't this what we pay them for?Chasing innocent kids around 'til they die in horrible accidents? I fucking hope not. It's not what I pay them for anyway.

Honey, I can see you're confused. Capitalism is an economic model, not a legal system.
And it doesn't allow you to stand by and watch when people's lives are in dager.

I'm sure there are laws relating to capitalism.

It is very easy for an accident to happen in a substation. I still do not see how that is the police fault. Not only should the teenagers not have run in a substation, they should not have been running in the first place. Hell in the US you could get shot....


I don't care if you don't want to spend all day answering questions too bad.....

Beats the alternative doesn't it?

you're missing the fundamental point that, in not informing the proper authority that a couple of kids had been chased into a substation, the policemen broke the law in france.

you're missing the fundamental point that, in not informing the proper authority that a couple of kids had been chased into a substation, the policemen broke the law in france.

We should have let the Nazis keep France.

It is very easy for an accident to happen in a substation. I still do not see how that is the police fault. Not only should the teenagers not have run in a substation, they should not have been running in the first place. Hell in the US you could get shot....


I don't care if you don't want to spend all day answering questions too bad.....

Beats the alternative doesn't it?

The police aren't to blame, per se. They were supposed to do something to help, but they didn't. Which is against the law, thus they'll get some jail time.

This story does sound anti-police to me as well.

The police may be should have notified someone at the power company but that may not have changed things.

This just sounds like a horrible accident to me. I do not see how the police can be blamed?

These kids were evading lawful detainment. Resisting arrest, basically?

The police were just suppose to let them get away?

Isn't this what we pay them for?

I'll try to make this clear.

a) The kids were not "resisting arrest". They had done nothing wrong. They were not criminals. They were not "evading lawful detainment".

b) The law says that, when you know someone is in mortal danger, and you can (try to) help them without putting yourself or anyone else at risk, you are legally bound to try and help. These police officers knew where the kids were. They knew the danger. They were therefore legally obliged to make a quick, simple phone call to have the electricity cut off. They didn't do so. THAT is what they are being charged with. It's called "non-assistance à personne en danger". It applies to everyone, not just the police.

Has that clarified it, for you?

Hell in the US you could get shot....

I used to think that the US police were too hard ass; now I see that they're not hard ass enough.

It is very easy for an accident to happen in a substation. I still do not see how that is the police fault. Not only should the teenagers not have run in a substation, they should not have been running in the first place. Hell in the US you could get shot....


I don't care if you don't want to spend all day answering questions too bad.....

Beats the alternative doesn't it?

Please read the thread again... nobody is blaming the police for CHASING the youths. That happens. Nobody is even blaming them for chasing them into a dangerous situation.
What they are being blamed for is simply LEAVING them in a dangerous situation without taking any steps to ensure their safety.
See my example about the car crash.

It's called "non-assistance à personne en danger". It applies to everyone, not just the police.

And it's a stupid law that shouldn't be observed. Like all those Americans ones, i.e. you can't sell fish in the town hall on Mondays.

It is very easy for an accident to happen in a substation. I still do not see how that is the police fault. Not only should the teenagers not have run in a substation, they should not have been running in the first place. Hell in the US you could get shot....


I don't care if you don't want to spend all day answering questions too bad.....

Beats the alternative doesn't it?

Uhhh, the police were duty-bound to phone the power company and get them to shut off the power. They did not, and as such they broke the law, whether you think the law is just or not.

End of case.

I'm sure there are laws relating to capitalism.
Do any of them allow you to let people die through inaction?
We should have let the Nazis keep France.

I wasn't aware Australia was ever in a position to make that decision. Unless you still think you're German. In which case my point still stands.

We should have let the Nazis keep France.

just no. you really are just a twisted little troll aren't you. what was the point of that statement. it does nothing to help what little argument you have and it just confirms in everyone's mind that you are an idiot. just stop before you burn.

whether you think the law is just or not.

Hmm. So the revolution was for nothing.

Do any of them allow you to let people die through inaction?

You know what, I think they do.

I wasn't aware Australia was ever in a position to make that decision. Unless you still think you're German. In which case my point still stands.

Was Australia not a member of the Allies forces?

And it's a stupid law that shouldn't be observed. Like all those Americans ones, i.e. you can't sell fish in the town hall on Mondays.

Ignoring laws you think are stupid will just get you sent to jail.

And do you have any reasons for thinking this law is stupid? Or are you just too hard up from trolling to think clearly?

Hmm. So the revolution was for nothing.

what are you even talking about? you're just trying to up your post-count now aren't you?

We should have let the Nazis keep France.

Yeah, right. Cause you were one of the ones deciding that, right?

You may have very good reasons not to like police. When a policemen yells stop...you stop or face the consquences...

And do you have any reasons for thinking this law is stupid?

Nobody should have to help idiot scum.

Nobody should have to help idiot scum.

Scared teenagers are idiot scum?

You know what, I think they do.
I doubt it. Even America has negligent homicide laws.

Was Australia not a member of the Allies forces?

That doesn't put them in a position to demand all the others call off the invasion of France.

what are you even talking about? you're just trying to up your post-count now aren't you?

Libertie, Egalite, Fraternitie. All that's down the drain in modern France. Louis' Revenge.

It is very easy for an accident to happen in a substation.Nobody claims otherwise. I still do not see how that is the police fault.The accident? It might not be, but whose fault it is, is besides the point. The police failed to contact the proper authorities when they'd chased the kids into the substation, and thus broke the law. That's what the article is about. Not whose to blame for what.Not only should the teenagers not have run in a substation, they should not have been running in the first place. Hell in the US you could get shot....And in France it's the other way around. If you're an innocent kid with the wrong skincolour/haircolour/clothes & the coppers come after you, chances are it's because they want to hurt you. That makes running the only sensible option, unless you happen to be heavily armed & don't mind spending the rest of your miserable life in jail for defending yourself.

Whether the coppers had legitimate reason to chase the kids is another question, and again unrelated to why it's perfectly natural the kids ran for it.

You may have very good reasons not to like police. When a policemen yells stop...you stop or face the consquences...

the consequences should not be death due to police negligence though. that's the point. why is this so hard to understand?

You may have very good reasons not to like police. When a policemen yells stop...you stop or face the consquences...

And when you walk away from a person in danger and do nothing you face the consequences. In France at least.

You may have very good reasons not to like police. When a policemen yells stop...you stop or face the consquences...

Let's give you a slightly different scenario :

Imagine a highway patrol chasing a speeder somewhere in the middle of nowhere. The driver appears to have drunk a little too much, he eventually loses control over his car and wraps it round a tree.
The police chasing him can clearly see that he's bleeding, but still alive. He's trapped in his car though and can't seem to move at all.
The police drive off.
The guy in the crashed car dies a couple of hours later of blood loss.

Would you say the police can be held responsible for refusing assistance in a dangerous situation?

Libertie, Egalite, Fraternitie. All that's down the drain in modern France. Louis' Revenge.

what you are advocating directly violates the principle of fraternity, and a case could easily be made for it violating the other two as well.

what you are advocating directly violates the principle of fraternity, and a case could easily be made for it violating the other two as well.

And what YOU'RE advocating directly violates the principle of liberty, the police's right to let the genepool cleanse itself.

And when you walk away from a person in danger and do nothing you face the consequences. In France at least.And yet... There'll be no consequences. Not apart from a couple of other coppers saying "Shame on you, never do that again."

Would you say the police can be held responsible for refusing assistance in a dangerous situation?

No. Shouldn't have fucking run.

What this really is pandering, scapegoatism

Using a cheap political trick to affect public policy.

See this all led to a riot and somebody must be held accountable.

It would not take too long to see who was going to lose out in this one.


It is far easier to sell poor, mistreated, and undocumented youth.


The police are being used as a scapegoat in this case. This sounds like something out of Seinfeld.

Libertie,
I got nothing on this one, but:
Egalite,
The law applies to everyone equally, no letting people die because they're "idiot scum"
Fraternitie.
The basis of this law, no doubt. I don't even need to spell this one out.
All that's down the drain in modern France. Louis' Revenge.
Or not.

And what YOU'RE advocating directly violates the principle of liberty, the police's right to let the genepool cleanse itself.

Surprise, surprise.
The police don't HAVE that right. The police has the job of preventing exactly that as far as possible.

We should have let the Nazis keep France.

Is this classified as a Godwin?

What this really is pandering, scapegoatism

Using a cheap political trick to affect public policy.

See this all led to a riot and somebody must be held accountable.

It would not take too long to see who was going to lose out in this one.


It is far easier to sell poor, mistreated, and undocumented youth.


The police are being used as a scapegoat in this case. This sounds like something out of Seinfeld.

can you edit your sentence structure as well, please? what you have written doesn't make sense.

Wouldn't be the first time we riot against idiocy.

What's this "we" shit? You'd shit your pants in fear if you found yourself in a real riot--getting tear-gassed by pissed off cops in riot gear ain't no video game, kid.

What this really is pandering, scapegoatism

Using a cheap political trick to affect public policy.

See this all led to a riot and somebody must be held accountable.

It would not take too long to see who was going to lose out in this one.


It is far easier to sell poor, mistreated, and undocumented youth.


The police are being used as a scapegoat in this case.Yups. Not that they don't deserve to be, but you're quite right that this shouldn't be the reason. This sounds like something out of Seinfeld.What would you call this thread then? :p

No. Shouldn't have fucking run.

Glad to see you finally begin to understand. You're right, the police should have stayed and notified the electricity company.

And what YOU'RE advocating directly violates the principle of liberty, the police's right to let the genepool cleanse itself.

no it doesn't. the liberty advocated by the french revolution does not negate the sworn duty of a police officer.

Is this classified as a Godwin?

He Godwinned the thread already, but yes.

What's this "we" shit? You'd shit your pants in fear if you found yourself in a real riot--getting tear-gassed by pissed off cops in riot gear ain't no video game, kid.

I've been in a riot. Tennis, dynamo, tennis...

Also, Australian police just sort of stand there with their shields. Almost as pathetic as the French police.

And what YOU'RE advocating directly violates the principle of liberty, the police's right to let the genepool cleanse itself.
What?



What?!
And yet... There'll be no consequences. Not apart from a couple of other coppers saying "Shame on you, never do that again."
Alas, this is probably true.
No. Shouldn't have fucking run.
Doesn't make a blind bit of difference. Egalitie, criminals have rights too.
What this really is pandering, scapegoatism

Using a cheap political trick to affect public policy.

See this all led to a riot and somebody must be held accountable.

It would not take too long to see who was going to lose out in this one.


It is far easier to sell poor, mistreated, and undocumented youth.


The police are being used as a scapegoat in this case. This sounds like something out of Seinfeld.

The police were clearly in the wrong here, how are they being scapegoated?

Glad to see you finally begin to understand. You're right, the police should have stayed and notified the electricity company.

Uhh, what? I said, the person who crashed DESERVED to die. Shouldn't have fucking run.

Uhh, what? I said, the person who crashed DESERVED to die. Shouldn't have fucking run.

That's just disgusting. How can you even pretend to have so little respect for human life?

Uhh, what? I said, the person who crashed DESERVED to die. Shouldn't have fucking run.

Right.. .so driving above speed limit and unauthorised running deserve capital punishment in your view of the world?

The police were clearly in the wrong here, how are they being scapegoated?Because on one hand you'll have authoritarians now saying "Well it was just a minor slip. Nothing should happen, and it's the criminal scum's own fault for running."
And on the other you'll have the not-so-authoritarian saying "What the FUCK?! That 'slip' might very well have cost the innocent teens their lives, and with the excessively violent police running around in our streets, whose to say the 'slip' wasn't intentional?"

And all the while, the social problems - that thing politicians exist to solve - will go ignored.

Right.. .so driving above speed limit and unauthorised running deserve capital punishment in your view of the world?

IMO, I think the police SHOULD help out the person, it's the decent thing to do. If they choose not to, I honestly don't care.

Nobody claims otherwise. The accident? It might not be, but whose fault it is, is besides the point. The police failed to contact the proper authorities when they'd chased the kids into the substation, and thus broke the law. That's what the article is about. Not whose to blame for what.And in France it's the other way around. If you're an innocent kid with the wrong skincolour/haircolour/clothes & the coppers come after you, chances are it's because they want to hurt you. That makes running the only sensible option, unless you happen to be heavily armed & don't mind spending the rest of your miserable life in jail for defending yourself.

Whether the coppers had legitimate reason to chase the kids is another question, and again unrelated to why it's perfectly natural the kids ran for it.



I am just going to pull one part out

If you're an innocent kid with the wrong skincolour/haircolour/clothes & the coppers come after you, chances are it's because they want to hurt you. That makes running the only sensible option, unless you happen to be heavily armed & don't mind spending the rest of your miserable life in jail for defending yourself.


These people need to bring charges through the court system. This is the only sensible way to affect change. You must change from within.

This happens in the US as well...you have to bring charges...


Charging a police officer for doing his/her job is wrong.

I am just going to pull one part out

If you're an innocent kid with the wrong skincolour/haircolour/clothes & the coppers come after you, chances are it's because they want to hurt you. That makes running the only sensible option, unless you happen to be heavily armed & don't mind spending the rest of your miserable life in jail for defending yourself.


These people need to bring charges through the court system. This is the only sensible way to affect change. You must change from within.

This happens in the US as well...you have to bring charges...


Charging a police officer for doing his/her job is wrong.

They are bringing charges to the court for two police officers NOT doing their job.
What's so hard to understand about that?

Because on one hand you'll have authoritarians now saying "Well it was just a minor slip. Nothing should happen, and it's the criminal scum's own fault for running."
And on the other you'll have the not-so-authoritarian saying "What the FUCK?! That 'slip' might very well have cost the innocent teens their lives, and with the excessively violent police running around in our streets, whose to say the 'slip' wasn't intentional?"

And all the while, the social problems - that thing politicians exist to solve - will go ignored.

Ah I see.

:(

I've been in a riot. Tennis, dynamo, tennis...

Also, Australian police just sort of stand there with their shields. Almost as pathetic as the French police.
Then you haven't really been in a riot. :rolleyes:

Then you haven't really been in a riot. :rolleyes:

This is as close to a riot as we can get.

Talking on the internet?

The way he talks, there must be one hell of a riot going on in his brain right now *lol

I am just going to pull one part out

If you're an innocent kid with the wrong skincolour/haircolour/clothes & the coppers come after you, chances are it's because they want to hurt you. That makes running the only sensible option, unless you happen to be heavily armed & don't mind spending the rest of your miserable life in jail for defending yourself.


These people need to bring charges through the court system. This is the only sensible way to affect change. You must change from within.

This happens in the US as well...you have to bring charges...


Charging a police officer for doing his/her job is wrong.

they're not being charged for doing their job. they're being charged for not doing thair duty and therefore breaking the law, as was established on page one and in the article.

also in a society where you cannot trust the police not to chase you and beat you because of your skin colour/hair colour/clothes etc. you also cannot trust the courts to aquit you if you've done nothing wrong. it's simple logic for the street.

This is as close to a riot as we can get.

Talking on the internet?

Talking on the internet?

Tennis and dynamo.

also in a society where you cannot trust the police not to chase you and beat you because of your skin colour/hair colour/clothes etc. you also cannot trust the courts to aquit you if you've done nothing wrong. it's simple logic for the street.

Except it's FRANCE. They should fucking get over themselves; the MAN isn't keeping them down. If you've done nothing wrong, you've got no reason to run. They ran, so they fucking did something.

Tennis and dynamo.

you were in a sports riot? how pathetic.

That's just disgusting. How can you even pretend to have so little respect for human life?

Because capitalism, the law, says so. Remember?:p

Except it's FRANCE. They should fucking get over themselves; the MAN isn't keeping them down. If you've done nothing wrong, you've got no reason to run. They ran, so they fucking did something.

not except in france. particularly in france, especially in the banlieux.

you were in a sports riot? how pathetic.

It's AUSTRALIA. Everyone who's ethnic's been in a sports riot.

not except in france. particularly in france, especially in the banlieux.

I find that hard to believe.

you were in a sports riot? how pathetic.

Unless English fans are present and it's a soccer game it's not a real sports riot.

Except it's FRANCE. They should fucking get over themselves; the MAN isn't keeping them down. If you've done nothing wrong, you've got no reason to run. They ran, so they fucking did something.


Actually the MAN is keeping them down. They are Muslims living in the suburbs. Thas about as bad as living in the inner city in America, but just a little worse, as there is 0% chance of them making anything of themselves.

Actually the MAN is keeping them down. They are Muslims living in the suburbs. Thas about as bad as living in the inner city in America, but just a little worse, as there is 0% chance of them making anything of themselves.

Don't make me laugh. They're keeping themselves down. They don't WANT to make anything of themselves. They LIKE welfare.

I find that hard to believe.

then you clearly haven't got a clue. try actually researching french current affairs rather than having knee-jerk reactions to news-articles that you don't fully read or comprehend.

then you clearly haven't got a clue. try actually researching french current affairs rather than having knee-jerk reactions to news-articles that you don't fully read or comprehend.

I've got plenty a clue. I see pathetic people using the government as an excuse for their own shortcomings.

Unless English fans are present and it's a soccer game it's not a real sports riot.


Ain't that the truth! :)

Don't make me laugh. They're keeping themselves down. They don't WANT to make anything of themselves. They LIKE welfare.

Yep, they love running from the police, being treated as second class humans and finally getting electrocuted.
It's the Banlieu Dream, you know?

Don't make me laugh. They're keeping themselves down. They don't WANT to make anything of themselves. They LIKE welfare.

of course, you're inside their head's aren't you... genious psychic psychologist and social commentator potato head tells it like it really is...

Ain't that the truth! :)

Damn right. Though the English are starting to behave themselves a bit more these days.

Don't make me laugh. They're keeping themselves down. They don't WANT to make anything of themselves. They LIKE welfare.


Right.:rolleyes: You honestly have no clue about how French labour laws work, or how their society is. Luckily enough for me, I do have a brain, and I was in a class last year that studied European politics, and guess what? I did my research paper on poor French Muslims. I think I know what I am talking about bub.

of course, you're inside their head's aren't you... genious psychic psychologist and social commentator potato head tells it like it really is...

Yes. I just did.

I've got plenty a clue. I see pathetic people using the government as an excuse for their own shortcomings.

without a shred of research. i.e. a knee-jerk reaction.:rolleyes:

Don't make me laugh. They're keeping themselves down. They don't WANT to make anything of themselves. They LIKE welfare.

And your evidence for this, K-P? Or is this another unsupported accusation?

And your evidence for this, K-P? Or is this another unsupported accusation?

Accusation? It's like that everywhere in the world.

Damn right. Though the English are starting to behave themselves a bit more these days.

Which makes me sad, because now I can't watch the Brits make fools on themselves on shows like "Xtreme Sports Violence 17" :(

Right.:rolleyes: You honestly have no clue about how French labour laws work, or how their society is. Luckily enough for me, I do have a brain, and I was in a class last year that studied European politics, and guess what? I did my research paper on poor French Muslims. I think I know what I am talking about bub.

Good. Then you'll know that they should go to school and get a damn job.

Accusation? It's like that everywhere in the world.

I think we can take that as "unsupported accusation"

Yep, they love running from the police, being treated as second class humans and finally getting electrocuted.
It's the Banlieu Dream, you know?

Don't forget rioting as the past-time of choice.

Accusation? It's like that everywhere in the world.

Again, evidence please. Your mere say-so is hardly proof enough.

Yes. I just did.

no, you told it like you mis-comprehend it, as a half-wit reactionary would.

Again, evidence please. Your mere say-so is hardly proof enough.

Come on. I live in St.Albans. I can take the train two stations and see these people.

Come on. I live in St.Albans. I can take the train two stations and see these people.

You can get to France on the train from Austrlia?

Why is this the first I've heard of such a train?

Come on. I live in St.Albans. I can take the train two stations and see these people.

And...

You have no proof of that. Once again, you are making unsupported accusations and massive strawmen. Please provide some evidence of your accusations, or withdraw the point.

Statistics, news reports, even wikipedia. Present something as evidence please.

You can get to France on the train from Austrlia?

Why is this the first I've heard of such a train?

We've got our very own banlieu. It's called Footscray.

You have no proof of that.

I think I know where I live, sonny boy.

Come on. I live in St.Albans. I can take the train two stations and see these people.

looking at lazy australians in the next neighbourhood does not qualify you to make judgements on french muslims living in the banlieux of paris. it doesn't even qualify you to make judgements of poor australians, muslim or otherwise.

looking at lazy australians in the next neighbourhood does not qualify you to make judgements on french muslims living in the banlieux of paris. it doesn't even qualify you to make judgements of poor australians, muslim or otherwise.

Yes it does. Poor people everywhere are there for the same reason.

I'm going to bed.

We've got our very own banlieu. It's called Footscray.

And the people there are exactly like the ones in Banlieu? Are they under French law too?

I think I know where I live, sonny boy.

we don't though. and since you're the one making claims and accusations the burden of proof is on you.

Yes it does. Poor people everywhere are there for the same reason.

Are you even trying to think about what you type?

And the people there are exactly like the ones in Banlieu? Are they under French law too?

They're poor because they immigrate, then they live off welfare.

Yes it does. Poor people everywhere are there for the same reason.

I'm going to bed.

you really are a joke. i hope you feel better in the morning.

Good. Then you'll know that they should go to school and get a damn job.

You know what? I've wasted a good 12 minutes reading this thread, and trying to comprehend how someone can be so absent minded. But its all clear to me as I look into my crystal ball...and what do I see in my future...

ahh yes...a troll
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a192/piggy_g87/Troll.jpg

Yes it does. Poor people everywhere are there for the same reason.

I'm going to bed.

Absurd strawman.

They are not. Some are there because they want to. Some are there due to society forcing them out. Some are there because they have no choice in such matters.

They're poor because they immigrate

how'd you work that one out?

They're poor because they immigrate, then they live off welfare.
Prove it.
You know what? I've wasted a good 12 minutes reading this thread, and trying to comprehend how someone can be so absent minded. But its all clear to me as I look into my crystal ball...and what do I see in my future...

ahh yes...a troll
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a192/piggy_g87/Troll.jpg

Best troll pic ever.

These people need to bring charges through the court system. This is the only sensible way to affect change. You must change from within.

This happens in the US as well...you have to bring charges...Yes, in theory. In practice, it makes no difference.
I went to jail for making a citizens arrest (subduing) a cop. The bastard wasn't in uniform & was physically attacking a couple of kids.
Bit under 10 years ago, an aquaintence of mine was strangled to death in the back of a police truck. He was revived too late, suffering massive braindamage, and finally died in the hospital (he never left) a couple of years ago.
A friend of mine was pinned & kicked several times in the head, while a copper gleefully asked if he remembered what happened to the aforementioned strangled kid.
A mate of mine had a police truck parked on his hip for more than 10 minutes. He'd stopped screaming before they could finnaly be arsed to move the damn thing. 6 months & extensive surgery later, and he's got a permanent limp.
I could go on for the rest of the day with examples of unprovoked attacks that I've personally witnessed, but I trust you get the picture. And if you don't, what I'm trying to say is that if you're the wrong person, the police is a fucking nightmare. It doesn't mean every police officer in the world is a psychopath itching to kill people, but some are, and unfortunately some groups of people are socially acceptable outlets for those fuckers.Charging a police officer for doing his/her job is wrong.Charges were brought up in all of the above cases, by anything from an army of angry parents, to hordes of fame hunting lawyers to local politicians trying to make themselves look good. And in all of the above cases, the charges were dismissed. Nothing happened. Not a fucking thing. Coppers almost everywhere are charged with examining themselves. Unsurprisingly they're very fucking bad at doing that objectively. It's like tasking the cat with making sure it doesn't jump up on the table & eat your food.

Witnesses doesn't help. Nothing helps. To think the French kids had any choice but to run like hell, is absurd. It's not just that they'd have absolutely no chance of doing anything about the beatdown they surely expected, it's that they cannot have had any reason to believe they weren't in mortal danger. Because the simple fact is: coppers have a nasty tendency of being so absurdly fucking violent their victims don't always survive.

They're poor because they immigrate, then they live off welfare.

Actually, the vast number of immigrants immigrate and get jobs and work hard. You are simply using a minority to amplify a racist point. Just as you often done with those of the Muslim faith.

Best troll pic ever.


20 sec PhotoShop FTW!

Actually, the vast number of immigrants immigrate and get jobs and work hard.

If we're talking about Australia, then yeah; the European and Asian ones.

If we're talking about Australia, then yeah; the European and Asian ones.

Once again, please prove that accusation with actual, empirical evidence.

If we're talking about Australia, then yeah; the European and Asian ones.

So immigrating from Africa or one of the Americas makes one incapable of doing a fair days work for a fair days pay?

If we're talking about Australia, then yeah; the European and Asian ones.

if that's true (and i still see no evidence) then it says more about how institutional racism is aligned in australia than it does about the work ethic of any particular ethnic groups.

First off. A substation is not the same as a power station. A power station generates power and a substation either steps up or steps down the voltage of a power supply.

Relevant stuff. It was these two deaths that sparked the riots in 2005. The largest riots in France for decades. The police reaction to the situtation was not... appropriate to say the least. The Interior ministry still denies that the police ever chased the kids. So they just happened to climb into a substation on an idle whim? Then we can ask - why would they be running from the police? The short of it is that the police can carry out ID checks in the Clichy-sous-Bois suburb of Paris and detain kids for up for 4 hours just because they don't have their ID papers. Hence it is easy to see why t-shirts with the slogan 'Dead for nothing' popped up during the 2005 riots.

There is a huge underlying institutional racism here. Hardly what one would call the triumph of justice. That these police officers are being prosecuted is simply the French government attempting to placate the black and arab communities in France, and to deflect their attention from the bigger problem.

Well reasoned stuff. You're pissing against the wind talking to Spud there though.

Once again, please prove that accusation with actual, empirical evidence.

You ask too much, my friend. :p

I think I know where I live, sonny boy.


Yes, despite earlier claims to being a "German" you are in fact an Australian. A country whose population are descended from, the vast majority of them, immigrants. And not just immigrants, but convicts - malcontents, "terrorists", thieves, murderers and prostitutes. Not that I have a problem with that in the slightest, being related to same. It does make your barely hidden racist snivelling especially pathetic, however.

Did you not post "Cronulla Forever", thus celebrating a bunch of drunken fuckwits on a fairly mindless racist rampage? Why are you now so pro law and order?

And since when does a young pup such as yourself get to refer to others as "sonny boy"?

Yes, despite earlier claims to being a "German" you are in fact an Australian. A country whose population are descended from, the vast majority of them, immigrants. And not just immigrants, but convicts - malcontents, "terrorists", thieves, murderers and prostitutes. Not that I have a problem with that in the slightest, being related to same. It does make your barely hidden racist snivelling especially pathetic, however.

Did you not post "Cronulla Forever", thus celebrating a bunch of drunken fuckwits on a fairly mindless racist rampage? Why are you now so pro law and order?

And since when does a young pup such as yourself get to refer to others as "sonny boy"?

lol! and the pwnage continues...

lol! and the pwnage continues...

This is the fun part of the thread! :D

This is the fun part of the thread! :D

heh! well hopefully there'll be a nice stock of withering put downs gathered here by the time he wakes up from his beddie-byes and logs back on. :D

heh! well hopefully there'll be a nice stock of withering put downs gathered here by the time he wakes up from his beddie-byes and logs back on. :D

Oh, I am so looking forward to reading it :D

Seriously though, how can anyone believe the shit that he spews out? Its terribly ridiculous. His argument was "because I said so", more or less. How kindergarden.

Oh, I am so looking forward to reading it :D

Seriously though, how can anyone believe the shit that he spews out? Its terribly ridiculous. His argument was "because I said so", more or less. How kindergarden.

I think it must get him off or something. Every now and then he shows up with a completely ridiculous thread, gets pwned and the equivalent of a verbal thrashing, keeps asking for more by spewing hate at all and everyone, and then goes off to bed.
You may guess what he's doing there then :D

I guess we just have a little maso perv on our hands here.

I think it must get him off or something. Every now and then he shows up with a completely ridiculous thread, gets pwned and the equivalent of a verbal thrashing, keeps asking for more by spewing hate at all and everyone, and then goes off to bed.
You may guess what he's doing there then :D

I guess we just have a little maso perv on our hands here.

Now I feel icky, and not in a good way.

Oh, I am so looking forward to reading it :D

Seriously though, how can anyone believe the shit that he spews out? Its terribly ridiculous. His argument was "because I said so", more or less. How kindergarden.

yeh, i never realised TPF was such a troll though. i'd noticed he had some pretty ridicuous attitudes but i've never actually seen him troll so flagrantly before. maybe he was drunk, the nazi analogy was particularly off the wall.

better not get too defamatory just now though cuz i can see this getting locked if we carry on talking about him behind his back.

You may guess what he's doing there then :D"How could you?" - Suicide note left by my imagination, addressed to CW.

Now I feel icky, and not in a good way.

eww, it's like we helped him getting off or something... *scrubs unwanted images off minds eye* :(

Now I feel icky, and not in a good way.

Hey, if he got off to my troll pic, then that makes me feel happy...maybe a little sexy in a way :P

"How could you?" - Suicide note left by my imagination, addressed to CW.

I guess it's too late to ask you to just forget what I said?
It seemed pretty obvious to me, really... I didn't think your imagination hadn't caught up with that yet

eww, it's like we helped him getting off or something... *scrubs unwanted images off minds eye* :(

*scrubs actual eyes with glasspaper*
Must cleanse eyes, must cleanse eyes!

I guess it's too late to ask you to just forget what I said?Obviously :( I didn't think your imagination hadn't caught up with that yetI'm guessing it was fighting for it's life, trying to focus on other things.

May it rest in peace.

Phew, that was fun.

Though I do feel a bit dirty for reading fourteen pages of troll spawn.

This story does sound anti-police to me as well.

The police may be should have notified someone at the power company but that may not have changed things.
That is clearly not correct. If the police officers concerned had notified the power company they would not be facing the possibility of criminal charges which would be a rather significant change to the way things are now even if it were the only change.

This just sounds like a horrible accident to me. I do not see how the police can be blamed?
You do not see how someone can be blamed for failing to do something the law requires them to do? Do you also not see how people can be blamed for choosing to not pay their taxes, or how parents can be blamed for choosing to not provide their children with the necessities of life, or how motorists can be blamed for failing to ensure any vehical they drive on public roads meets the legally set standards?

These kids were evading lawful detainment. Resisting arrest, basically?
We cannot determine that based on the provided information, but we can determine that even if it were true, this would not be materially relevent to the charges against the two officers.

The police were just suppose to let them get away?
Whatever causes you to think this is a reasonable comment given the facts? How did you come to think "should they let them get away" is a sensible response when no one is being charged for not letting anyone get away. Have you somehow misunderstood that no one is being charged because they chased the youths, no one is being charged because the youths ended up in mortal danger, and that no one is being charged with a crime for anything that they did?

Isn't this what we pay them for?
Isnt what what we pay them for? By 'this' do you mean fail to abide by the laws they are employed to enforce?

read only the first and last pages of this thread...

Got a few Questions

1) What was the reason the officers were chasing those boys?

2) Why was it so easy to get into the power substation? (here, our powerstations are walled/fenced off to prevent easy access... including barbed wire at the top of fences to prevent people from climbing over.)

3) Why is no one blaming the EDF for having such easy access into those substations?

4) One of the two officers charged had radioed headquarters, allegedly saying at one point that "If they enter the EDF site, I don't think they stand much of a chance," said attorney Jean-Pierre Mignard who represents the boys' families and a third adolescent, Muhittin Altun, who was badly burned but survived. Did the Officers know that those three DID infact hide in the power substation? if they didn't, then that could be the reason why EDF was not called.

I am not judging the cops and the kids, after all, this is France and how they treat their officers is up to them.

What this really is pandering, scapegoatism

Using a cheap political trick to affect public policy.

See this all led to a riot and somebody must be held accountable.

It would not take too long to see who was going to lose out in this one.


It is far easier to sell poor, mistreated, and undocumented youth.


The police are being used as a scapegoat in this case. This sounds like something out of Seinfeld.
Your conclusion is absurd.

The officers wouldnt be charged if it were not known that both were aware the youths were in the power station, one having chased them in there and informed the other of the danger they were in.

The only gain anyone stands to make by finding a scapegoat is to draw attention away from their own failings and the only ones whose failings might have attention drawn away from them, explicitly and intentionally lied to the public by stating that the youths had not been chased by any police officers.

A necessary consequence of the police officers being charged is that a lot of attention is drawn to the lying and duplicity, ie attention is drawn to even worse failings of the very people who might have gained from a scapegoat.

So not only is there not any gain for anyone in scapegoating these police officers, it's a liablity for the only potential gainers. The charges do not draw the focus away from those who might be blamed for the riots otherwise, rather they indicate that those concerned are not only incompetent in avoiding riots, but also corrupt, duplicitous liers who have no compunction with obstructing justice, lying to the whole country, and attempting to cover up crimes.





These people need to bring charges through the court system. This is the only sensible way to affect change. You must change from within.

This happens in the US as well...you have to bring charges...
This is not helpful to one why they are running for their well-being even if it's a realistic option after the fact. More significantly, what you are suggesting is that when police officers do not abide by the law but instead break it, the proper outcome is that charges be brought against them in a court of law, this seems odd given you are making the comment as part of an attempt to argue that in a particular case of two police officers apparently breaking the law, bringing charges against them in a court of law is not a proper outcome.


Charging a police officer for doing his/her job is wrong.
I agree, but since that is not what is happening here, I fail to see the relevence. In case you still fail to comprehend, no one is being charged for having done anything be it their job or otherwise. Rather 2 people are being charged for failing to do what they are required by law to do, a requirment that applies to anyone and everyone, but which it is even more reasonable to expect police to abide by. The fact is it isnt the police's job to ignore the law (rather their job is to contribute to upholding the law) and it isnt their job to ignore and refuse to assist people in danger, in fact quite the contrary. The officers are not being charged for or because they did their job, because they are not being charged as a result of anything they did, rather they are being charged for failing to do what the law required them to do. They are no more being charged for doing their job, than a tax-dodger facing legal sanctions is being prosecuted for earning money.

Justice has not lost in any way, shape or form.

I know this thread is making me smile.
Me too. In a dirty way. A guilty way. Like watching a troll-wreck. A bit scary.
We should have let the Nazis keep France.
"We"? You're not 'We'. You don't speak for them. You're just a simple troll who can't even understand the article you yourself posted.

I feel......dirty. And not in a good way.

They weren't criminals. They were discriminated against. It's the same here in the US as if a dark-skinned person was chased by police because of his skin color.

Well guess what? Your laws are retarded. They're just as bad as Hitler's laws against Jews. ;)

Fixed.

They weren't criminals. They were discriminated against. It's the same here in the US as if a dark-skinned person was chased by police because of his skin color.

Haha. Ha. Hahaha. Right. Just the man putting them down, right?

They don't HAVE to protect you

Exactly. I swear, what do you think the job of the police actually is? You would think that everyone here believes the police are there to serve and protect.

What nonsense is that.

Haha. Ha. Hahaha. Right. Just the man putting them down, right?

well...yeah, pretty much.

Haha. Ha. Hahaha. Right. Just the man putting them down, right?

Essentially, yes. I note you havent bothered answering any of the very valid points made during your absence. Obviously putting hobnails on your thongs/flip-flops has consumed your mental energies for the time being.

Essentially, yes. I note you havent bothered answering any of the very valid points made during your absence. Obviously putting hobnails on your thongs/flip-flops has consumed your mental energies for the time being.Answering valid points is not a clever strategy to pursue when all you want is negative reactions to fuel your "everybody hates me" world view.