NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.france24.com/france24Public/en/administration/afp-news.html?id=070208131425.vau4ur0w&cat=middle-east

Wonder if the Chimp in Chief still wants war with Iran?

With both the US and UK bemoaning nuclear weapons and power getting into the hands of ‘rogue states’, yet at the same time pushing forward with upgrading their nuclear weapons and increasing the amount of nuclear power plants, no fucking wonder.

Non-proliferation Treaty anyone?

I think the idea that Iran is seriously developing nuclear weapons to strike against Israel, or anywhere else for that matter, is preposterous. Ahmadinejad is simply baiting the US I feel.

With both the US and UK bemoaning nuclear weapons and power getting into the hands of ‘rogue states’, yet at the same time pushing forward with upgrading their nuclear weapons and increasing the amount of nuclear power plants, no fucking wonder.

Non-proliferation Treaty anyone?

Please, treaties are so ... 20th century. Just do what we tell you to and everything will be alright. Silly little countries, thinking you can do what you want. :rolleyes:

Fuck 'em. That just makes me want to hit them more. I guess that's why I'm not involved in politics.

I think the idea that Iran is seriously developing nuclear weapons to strike against Israel, or anywhere else for that matter, is preposterous. Ahmadinejad is simply baiting the US I feel.

So they're testing long range weapons to spread what? Tootsie rolls? I think Europe and Asia had better wake up. It's not us they're going to hit first. We'll have plenty of time to retaliate.

So they're testing long range weapons to spread what? Tootsie rolls? I think Europe and Asia had better wake up. It's not us they're going to hit first. We'll have plenty of time to retaliate.

1. Show me something to uphold your statement about longe range weapons tests.
2. Who are they going to hit first?

I think the best thing we can do in response to this is to out a NOC CIA agent who works on these very matters in this very country. That's the ticket! Especially if it's for political retribution.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/020707A.shtml

1. Show me something to uphold your statement about longe range weapons tests.
2. Who are they going to hit first?

Israel is probably their first target...and as much as missile defense systems have been frowned upon, if any country should establish a purely defensive nuclear missile program, it's Israel.

Israel is probably their first target...and as much as missile defense systems have been frowned upon, if any country should establish a purely defensive nuclear missile program, it's Israel.

But Israel has second strike capabilities! Any nuclear strike against it would be insane!

But Israel has second strike capabilities! Any nuclear strike against it would be insane!

Please elaborate on "second strike"; I don't quite understand, unless it ties into the MAD theory in which, if Iran nukes Israel, Iran can count on being nuked right back. In which, the Gates of Hell and All Holy Fucking Shit will probably be opened and the entire world will go straight to fuck, but still...Ahmedinejad will be a smoldering crater if he tries to nuke Israel, since one of the 47 surviving Israelis will nuke them back.

With both the US and UK bemoaning nuclear weapons and power getting into the hands of ‘rogue states’, yet at the same time pushing forward with upgrading their nuclear weapons and increasing the amount of nuclear power plants, no fucking wonder.

Non-proliferation Treaty anyone?

So? What about it? Nonproliferation: preventing the spread of nuclear weapons. The US and UK already have nuclear weapons; there is no reason why they should not upgrade to accommodate for changes in tactics. The world is perfectly reasonable to prevent Iran from destabilizing the MidEast even further by acquiring such weapons.

Please elaborate on "second strike"; I don't quite understand, unless it ties into the MAD theory in which, if Iran nukes Israel, Iran can count on being nuked right back. In which, the Gates of Hell and All Holy Fucking Shit will probably be opened and the entire world will go straight to fuck, but still...Ahmedinejad will be a smoldering crater if he tries to nuke Israel, since one of the 47 surviving Israelis will nuke them back.

Israel has a second strike capability in the form of a submarine-based system consisting of three German Dolphin Class 800 submarines, which where delivered in late 1999, and are capable of launching nuclear cruise missiles which could certainly decimate Iran.

Also, the development of a nuclear weapon would only feed proliferation in their region and only increase their vulnerability. If Iran had nuclear weapons Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Oman, Jordan, Kuwait and the UAE would start their own programs. Then you have ten hostile, nuclear-armed arabic Sunni nations whom have always historically and ideologically disliked Shiite Iranians.

Iran thinks it can take the U.S.!!! Whatever Iran.

Israel has a second strike capability in the form of a submarine-based system consisting of three German Dolphin Class 800 submarines, which where delivered in late 1999, and are capable of launching nuclear cruise missiles which could certainly decimate Iran.

Also, the development of a nuclear weapon would only feed proliferation in their region and only increase their vulnerability. If Iran had nuclear weapons Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Oman, Jordan, Kuwait and the UAE would start their own programs. Then you have ten hostile, nuclear-armed arabic Sunni nations whom have always historically and ideologically disliked Shiite Iranians.

All this means one thing: If Iran tries anything, they'll be turned into a glass parking lot faster than they can say "Ahmedinejad." Although it's almost amusing to think of a nuclear-powered Kuwait...the red-headed stepchild of the Middle East gets nukes, and maybe it will get a little more respect.

Iran thinks it can take the U.S.!!! Whatever Iran.

They're not saying that. They're saying that they can disrupt the flow of oil from the middle east and use terrorists to attack targets in the US to make us pay if we attack them. They can do that, but so what? They'll suffer a lot more than we will.

So? What about it? Nonproliferation: preventing the spread of nuclear weapons. The US and UK already have nuclear weapons; there is no reason why they should not upgrade to accommodate for changes in tactics. The world is perfectly reasonable to prevent Iran from destabilizing the MidEast even further by acquiring such weapons.
The NNPT is not just about stopping the spread of nuclear weapons; it also firmly calls for disarmament under international control, plus a right to peaceful use of nuclear technology.

Those nations that posses nuclear weapons use the NNPT as a reason to prevent other nations gaining nuclear weaponry, while flagrantly failing to put any effort into disarmament; indeed, as you have noted, both the US and UK are moving in the opposite direction.

Furthermore, while pushing for further nuclear power plants in their own states, Bush and Blair are piling on international pressure to prevent the spread of nuclear power in countries who have a right, under the NNPT, to do so.

If the US and UK, and the other nuclear states, want to use the NNPT as legal backing for their case against the spread of nuclear weaponry, and to back up that case with threats of sanctions and military action, then they must abide by all the articles of the treaty.

I support Iran's Nuclear Drive.

If only it didn't have an insane leader... :headbang:

The NNPT is not just about stopping the spread of nuclear weapons; it also firmly calls for disarmament under international control, plus a right to peaceful use of nuclear technology.

Those nations that posses nuclear weapons use the NNPT as a reason to prevent other nations gaining nuclear weaponry, while flagrantly failing to put any effort into disarmament; indeed, as you have noted, both the US and UK are moving in the opposite direction.

Furthermore, while pushing for further nuclear power plants in their own states, Bush and Blair are piling on international pressure to prevent the spread of nuclear power in countries who have a right, under the NNPT, to do so.

If the US and UK, and the other nuclear states, want to use the NNPT as legal backing for their case against the spread of nuclear weaponry, and to back up that case with threats of sanctions and military action, then they must abide by all the articles of the treaty.

Actually, yes, we are upgrading our weapons, but we are doing so in order that our arsenal will be reduced. Right now the major and primary concern is preventing the spread of nuclear weapons.

And yes, I agree that main issue is whether Iran is developing nuclear weapons with its technology. I fully support the acquisition of peaceful uses of nuclear technology. But there is legitimate reason to remain wary as well about their intentions.

1. Show me something to uphold your statement about longe range weapons tests.
2. Who are they going to hit first?

1.http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/iran/missile/overview.html
2.Most likely Israel, of course. At the moment.

1.http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/iran/missile/overview.html
2.Most likely Israel, of course. At the moment.

What did you think about my previous post, showing how insane any kind of nuclear attack against Israel or even proliferation would be on the part of Iran?

So they're testing long range weapons to spread what? Tootsie rolls? I think Europe and Asia had better wake up. It's not us they're going to hit first. We'll have plenty of time to retaliate.

The weapons will not be intended for Israel. They are to deter US presence in the Persian Gulf. Iran actually has quite a decide land-to-sea delivery system, and by building it up they can hope to sink a significant slice of any American fleet that attempts to invade the Iranian mainland.

Iran has no interest in attacking Israel. They have every interest in demonstrating to the USA that they are capable of defending themselves.

Please elaborate on "second strike"; I don't quite understand, unless it ties into the MAD theory in which, if Iran nukes Israel, Iran can count on being nuked right back. In which, the Gates of Hell and All Holy Fucking Shit will probably be opened and the entire world will go straight to fuck, but still...Ahmedinejad will be a smoldering crater if he tries to nuke Israel, since one of the 47 surviving Israelis will nuke them back.
If you're interested in Israel's second strike capabilities, the following article might interest you: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/24/AR2006082401050.html

As if we have the manpower to invade Iran. :rolleyes:

Any military action against Iran will be exclusively air and cruise missile strikes. I'd bet the first targets are not nuclear sites, but fixed missile emplacements along the Gulf coast to prevent attacks on shipping.

After that...well, airfields and power plants are hard to hide.

Although...

"It should expect its current problems in Iraq to increase 10 times if it attacks Iran," said Rafsanjani, who currently heads Iran's legislative arbitration body.

Basically an outright admission that Iran is involved in the violence in Iraq. We all knew it, of course, but an admission from within the government?!?

...never thought I'd say it, but perhaps we should start bombing them now. They already seem to think it's their fight, yet they think they can walk through it unscathed. We should show them otherwise.

They're not saying that. They're saying that they can disrupt the flow of oil from the middle east and use terrorists to attack targets in the US to make us pay if we attack them. They can do that, but so what? They'll suffer a lot more than we will.

Of course they will. But with every single grain of suffering they feel the Iranians will be glad to make that sacrifice to harm 'the Great Satan'.

Whereas in America, as soon as the price of oil raises just one dollar, support for war with Iran will shatter.

I support Iran's Nuclear Drive.

If only it didn't have an insane leader... :headbang:

Well then you are luck. Supreme Leader Ali al-Khameini is one of the most coldly rational people on Allah's green Earth...

What did you think about my previous post, showing how insane any kind of nuclear attack against Israel or even proliferation would be on the part of Iran?

You do not build suspicion and paranoia to unite a group unless you intend to go after a target. *winces at fallout*

Of course the whole concept of MAD relies upon the leadership actually caring about the destruction of their homeland…

When you have a theocracy that is convinced that either ‘Allah will protect us and prevent Israeli weapons from harming his faithful servants’ or ‘we will all become martyrs and go straight to paradise’ the whole concept of MAD is ineffective.

I hope you don't think Iran is a population of wannabee suicide bombers. The Iranian people are really clear-thinking folk for the most part. Last Iranian mid-terms, the populace shown a distaste for recent Iranian policy by voting against Achminijad's party in local elections.

Their leadership is just out of control. Much like a certain North American nation. And I don't mean Canada.

Basically an outright admission that Iran is involved in the violence in Iraq. We all knew it, of course, but an admission from within the government?!?
It was nothing of the sort. It was more "if you attack us, we'll bugger Iraq up. We might not be doing that now, but that's what we certainly will be doing if you start something.
...never thought I'd say it, but perhaps we should start bombing them now. They already seem to think it's their fight, yet they think they can walk through it unscathed. We should show them otherwise.
2 things -

1) You are as thick as pig shit if you think that's the best way to resolve the situation.

2) The US probably is bombing Iran on the sly.

The USAF and, sadly, the RAF was bombing Iraq pretty much all through 2002 in an attempt to get one its planes shot down, trying to provoke Saddam Hussein into giving them an excuse to launch a war on him.

I'll bet they're trying that in Iran as well.

2) The US probably is bombing Iran on the sly.

Nope.

The USAF and, sadly, the RAF was bombing Iraq pretty much all through 2002 in an attempt to get one its planes shot down, trying to provoke Saddam Hussein into giving them an excuse to launch a war on him.

I'll bet they're trying that in Iran as well.

Nope. We were not bombing with intent to get "shot down." I'm going to have to see some verifiable documents to believe that crap.

I will contend that we had troops on the ground before the invasion, with supporting aircraft in the vicinity. I have no doubt that we were engaged in covert operations designed to pave the way for the initial offensive. But looking for an excuse? Please, we had plenty.

Fuck 'em. That just makes me want to hit them more. I guess that's why I'm not involved in politics.

No I'm sure G.W. is frothing at the mouth while Cheny lightly tugs on the leash to calm him down.

"Not yet boy, not yet."

Well then you are luck. Supreme Leader Ali al-Khameini is one of the most coldly rational people on Allah's green Earth...

Which is why Ahmadinejad's in power in the first place...they needed a nut like him to prod the West and take attention away from themselves and the rapidly deteriorating economic situation in Iran.

Please elaborate on "second strike"; I don't quite understand, unless it ties into the MAD theory in which, if Iran nukes Israel, Iran can count on being nuked right back. In which, the Gates of Hell and All Holy Fucking Shit will probably be opened and the entire world will go straight to fuck, but still...Ahmedinejad will be a smoldering crater if he tries to nuke Israel, since one of the 47 surviving Israelis will nuke them back.

Any nuclear attack by Iran on another nation will be responded with a NATO nuclear strike on Iran. There are a number of nations that would nuke Tehran. The US for starters, UK and recently Chirac said Tehran would be a vaporized if they attacked Israel specifically.

They're not going to try to nuke Israel. They can't be THAT dumb. There are easier ways to commit suicide, ways that don't involve turning your capital into a glass desert.

Not to mention that Iran is surrounded by nations that espouse a different sect of Islam than they do (I can't remember if Iran is the Shi'a and everyone else are the Sunni or the other way around). They're just as divisive and hateful with one another as with non-Muslims.

But Israel has second strike capabilities! Any nuclear strike against it would be insane!

Silly man. Don't you know that Iran is stupid? The mere fact that they're threatening retaliation against the U.S. (fueling the Chimp's anger) means that they're stupid enough to attack Israel.

They're not going to try to nuke Israel. They can't be THAT dumb. There are easier ways to commit suicide, ways that don't involve turning your capital into a glass desert.

Not to mention that Iran is surrounded by nations that espouse a different sect of Islam than they do (I can't remember if Iran is the Shi'a and everyone else are the Sunni or the other way around). They're just as divisive and hateful with one another as with non-Muslims.

Your right to a point. They cant be that stupid. Can they? Also the majority of Persians are Shia. Everyone else basically is Sunni.

Your right to a point. They cant be that stupid. Can they? Also the majority of Persians are Shia. Everyone else basically is Sunni.

Iran = Persia, right? Turns out I don't remember nearly as much history as I thought I did.

Iran = Persia, right? Turns out I don't remember nearly as much history as I thought I did.

Yes, basically.

Okay, am I the only one aware that the Tor-M1 missile referred to in the article is an anti-air missile, not a land-to-sea weapon?

I reckon the dear Ayatollah embarrassed himself, and then France24 followed suit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9K330_Tor
http://www.defense-update.com/products/t/tor.htm
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/missile/row/sa-15.htm

War with Iran would be pointless anyways due to their economic situation. Just give them a couple of years and they will kill themselves off and save us some trouble but until then lets just hope they dont take any countries with them on their way out.

Okay, am I the only one aware that the Tor-M1 missile referred to in the article is an anti-air missile, not a land-to-sea weapon?

I reckon the dear Ayatollah embarrassed himself, and then France24 followed suit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9K330_Tor
http://www.defense-update.com/products/t/tor.htm
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/missile/row/sa-15.htm

I have no prior understanding of military hardware whatsoever. Thank you for clarifying.

Which is why Ahmadinejad's in power in the first place...they needed a nut like him to prod the West and take attention away from themselves and the rapidly deteriorating economic situation in Iran.

This is like the second time you've spouted your bias 'information' regarding the economic situation in Iran, some people are sick of it...

But Israel has second strike capabilities! Any nuclear strike against it would be insane!


true enough.

but that may be the point of this insanity.

for some reason,i think ahmha nutjob wants this....all it will accomplish is..a war of no equal in our history,and the mass slaughter of jews and arabs/persians.

a sane person in the middle east would never pre emtively strike isreal..it is suicide and they know it.
so why would they?


and they would never attack europe or the u.s.

the russians and the chinese would not want that,and they do quite abit of trade with them..so it again would be insanity.

leaves the options of either he is insane...or very clever.

Please elaborate on "second strike"; I don't quite understand, unless it ties into the MAD theory in which, if Iran nukes Israel, Iran can count on being nuked right back. In which, the Gates of Hell and All Holy Fucking Shit will probably be opened and the entire world will go straight to fuck, but still...Ahmedinejad will be a smoldering crater if he tries to nuke Israel, since one of the 47 surviving Israelis will nuke them back. Rumors state that Ahmedinejad thinks that Allah will make the Jewish Missiles miss.

Rumors state that Ahmedinejad thinks that Allah will make the Jewish Missiles miss.

Behold the awesome power of faith.

Rumors state that Ahmedinejad thinks that Allah will make the Jewish Missiles miss.
I guess I do learn something every day, I always figured Allah was powerful enough to render American missles useless. I guess we here at Nationstates have found the gap in their defenses. :eek:

It's obvious, none of you have any idea what's going on. Let me explain it to you very clearly. These people want to "KILL YOU". Do you understand that? I know this to be true for several reasons.

1. I speak the language and studied Islam and the culture.
2. I served my country (US Navy) and operated in that part of the world.

And for any American who doesn't see the obvious, then I feel for you. Granted we have plenty problems of our own here in the U.S. but believe me, I've traveled the world and one thing I can surely be proud and happy of..... I'm an AMERICAN. Get a clue people, don't be stupid. Because when they're knocking on your front door, they will not be bringing cookies.

It's obvious, none of you have any idea what's going on. Let me explain it to you very clearly. These people want to "KILL YOU". Do you understand that? I know this to be true for several reasons.

1. I speak the language and studied Islam and the culture.
2. I served my country (US Navy) and operated in that part of the world.

And for any American who doesn't see the obvious, then I feel for you. Granted we have plenty problems of our own here in the U.S. but believe me, I've traveled the world and one thing I can surely be proud and happy of..... I'm an AMERICAN. Get a clue people, don't be stupid. Because when they're knocking on your front door, they will not be bringing cookies.

So you're...suggesting...what now? That we preempt them, level all of the Middle East, and install good ol' American democracy there? Hah, don't make me laugh. Our beloved country MADE Iran a hot-bed of anti-US sentiments by supporting a corrupt dictator, and after he was deposed, supporting Iraq in the Iran-Iraq war.

Or have you forgotten your pre-2001 history?

I hope you don't think Iran is a population of wannabee suicide bombers. The Iranian people are really clear-thinking folk for the most part. Last Iranian mid-terms, the populace shown a distaste for recent Iranian policy by voting against Achminijad's party in local elections.

And immedeatley thereafter, Iran raised the voting age from 15 to 18 to ensure that the young progressives who caused those defeats in the local elections would not get to vote in regional or national elections later this year.

And some people call Iran "democratic" :rolleyes:

With both the US and UK bemoaning nuclear weapons and power getting into the hands of ‘rogue states’, yet at the same time pushing forward with upgrading their nuclear weapons and increasing the amount of nuclear power plants, no fucking wonder.

Non-proliferation Treaty anyone?

Are you fucking seriously consider UK, US and Iran in the same category? It's like applying same standarts to normal and psycho people. Because I'd call a country in which rape women are stoned to death psycho.

I hope Americans take care of these savages. A nuclear Iran is really quite dangerous...

So you're...suggesting...what now? That we preempt them, level all of the Middle East, and install good ol' American democracy there? Hah, don't make me laugh. Our beloved country MADE Iran a hot-bed of anti-US sentiments by supporting a corrupt dictator, and after he was deposed, supporting Iraq in the Iran-Iraq war.

Or have you forgotten your pre-2001 history?

The most logical option seems to be bombing nuclear facilities instead of a full scale invasion...

You know there is a solution to this, don't attack Iran! I know it may sound strange to the gun-ho neocons running the US, but you'll have alot less flag-draped boxes coming home if you don't.

Why oh WHY did the US and UK have to get rid of the only man in the region willing to stand up to these Persian crackheads? :headbang:

Iran has the right to develop a nuclear program as long as they don't build any nuclear weapons. This is just scare tactics from Iran, they would never fire a nuclear bomb on any other country because they know they would be screwed. I know that Bush is dumb but I seriously don't think anyone can be dumb enough to start yet another war while having screwed up one already.

Behold the awesome power of faith.

I guess I do learn something every day, I always figured Allah was powerful enough to render American missles useless. I guess we here at Nationstates have found the gap in their defenses. :eek:
Yep Allah will appear and the missiles will turn around and destroy all their enemies.

they would never fire a nuclear bomb on any other country because they know they would be screwed. I know that Bush is dumb but I seriously don't think anyone can be dumb enough to start yet another war while having screwed up one already.
Iran wouldn't, but Ahmedinejad?

Ahmedinejad is the Islamic version of Bush. For all we know he may WANT to end the world, so the second coming would happen.

(Which considering how he's waving it in the US face, ((Like he just did ANOTHER missile test today)) he wants his country destroyed, just to 'get' the Great Satan.)

And immedeatley thereafter, Iran raised the voting age from 15 to 18 to ensure that the young progressives who caused those defeats in the local elections would not get to vote in regional or national elections later this year.

And some people call Iran "democratic" :rolleyes:

At least they had a lower voting age at one point. I don't know one country in the western world that has a voting age of 15.

It's obvious, none of you have any idea what's going on. Let me explain it to you very clearly. These people want to "KILL YOU". Do you understand that? I know this to be true for several reasons.

1. I speak the language and studied Islam and the culture.
2. I served my country (US Navy) and operated in that part of the world.

And for any American who doesn't see the obvious, then I feel for you. Granted we have plenty problems of our own here in the U.S. but believe me, I've traveled the world and one thing I can surely be proud and happy of..... I'm an AMERICAN. Get a clue people, don't be stupid. Because when they're knocking on your front door, they will not be bringing cookies.

Do you now? :rolleyes:

I studied Shi'a and sunna Islam and the culture as well, I read and write the language... I visited the region and I know people from the region.

I do not come to your conclusion, on what exactly do you base this? they have neither the desire nor the power to kill you.

Iran wouldn't, but Ahmedinejad?

Ahmedinejad is the Islamic version of Bush. For all we know he may WANT to end the world, so the second coming would happen.

(Which considering how he's waving it in the US face, ((Like he just did ANOTHER missile test today)) he wants his country destroyed, just to 'get' the Great Satan.)
Ahmadinejad has no power over the Iranian Military, Khamenei has.

As for the missile tests; everyone including the Iranians fear that the current US administration will do something stupid like bombing Iran thereby drawing both parties into a costly war. The land-to-sea missile testing, the warning addressed to the US leadership, and the new air defence system, are part of the Iranian deterrence; It is like a cat that makes itself bigger when it feels threatened. A good and believable deterrence can prevent war, whereas mixed signals often lead to war.

They're not going to try to nuke Israel. They can't be THAT dumb. There are easier ways to commit suicide, ways that don't involve turning your capital into a glass desert.

Not to mention that Iran is surrounded by nations that espouse a different sect of Islam than they do (I can't remember if Iran is the Shi'a and everyone else are the Sunni or the other way around). They're just as divisive and hateful with one another as with non-Muslims.

Iraq is a neighbour of (shi'a) Iran and it currently has a has a friendly Shi'a government

As if we have the manpower to invade Iran. :rolleyes:

Any military action against Iran will be exclusively air and cruise missile strikes. I'd bet the first targets are not nuclear sites, but fixed missile emplacements along the Gulf coast to prevent attacks on shipping.

After that...well, airfields and power plants are hard to hide.

Although...

"It should expect its current problems in Iraq to increase 10 times if it attacks Iran, said Rafsanjani, who currently heads Iran's legislative arbitration body."

Basically an outright admission that Iran is involved in the violence in Iraq. We all knew it, of course, but an admission from within the government?!?

...never thought I'd say it, but perhaps we should start bombing them now. They already seem to think it's their fight, yet they think they can walk through it unscathed. We should show them otherwise.

No it is the admission that Iran is present in Iraq, and that they gained have a lot of influence within Shi’a groups. Your current troubles are with the extensive Sunni insurgency targeting US troops and Shi’a civilians; the Iranian supported Shi’a groups are currently quite docile, especially towards US troops.

Guess what will happen when you attack Iran.

It's obvious, none of you have any idea what's going on. Let me explain it to you very clearly. These people want to "KILL YOU". Do you understand that? I know this to be true for several reasons.

1. I speak the language and studied Islam and the culture.
2. I served my country (US Navy) and operated in that part of the world.

And for any American who doesn't see the obvious, then I feel for you. Granted we have plenty problems of our own here in the U.S. but believe me, I've traveled the world and one thing I can surely be proud and happy of..... I'm an AMERICAN. Get a clue people, don't be stupid. Because when they're knocking on your front door, they will not be bringing cookies.

I speak the language and have studied Islam as well. Who are "these people" that want to kill us? I've known a great many Arabs and Persians, both Christian and Muslim. The majority of Middle Easterners are the kindest, most hospitable people that I have ever known.

Yes, it's true that extremists exist in Islam just as in any other religion, but the extremist aim their hostilities at the U.S. government rather than at the American people.

Not that it will ever happen, but just imagine how it would be if the U.S. was invaded and occupied by a foreign power. Then imagine how many Americans would exhibit anger if the foreign soldiers began raping our women, just as the U.S. soldiers raped a 15 year old Iraqi girl and burned her entire family alive.

It's really sad that people aren't able to see through the propaganda on both sides of the fence.

I It's really sad that people aren't able to see through the propaganda on both sides of the fence.
Congratulations, you've just hit the jackpot on what I was thinking. I don't know who is any better (if by at any degree at all): George W. Bush, President of the United States of America, or co-theocrats, respectively Grand Âyatollâh Seyyed ‘Alî Hossaynî Khâmene’î, Supreme Leader of the Islamic Republic of Iran, and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, President of the Islamic Republic of Iran...

Congratulations, you've just hit the jackpot on what I was thinking. I don't know who is any better (if by at any degree at all): George W. Bush, President of the United States of America, or co-theocrats, respectively Grand Âyatollâh Seyyed ‘Alî Hossaynî Khâmene’î, Supreme Leader of the Islamic Republic of Iran, and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, President of the Islamic Republic of Iran...
The US and Iran are far more alike than both parties can imagine. They are both proud, nationalist, and religious societies with similar leadership. Yet they are generally good people that deeply mistrust each other’s governments.

1. Show me something to uphold your statement about longe range weapons tests.
2. Who are they going to hit first?

1) Try following the news
2) Again, try following the news.

I hope you don't think Iran is a population of wannabee suicide bombers. The Iranian people are really clear-thinking folk for the most part. Last Iranian mid-terms, the populace shown a distaste for recent Iranian policy by voting against Achminijad's party in local elections.

Their leadership is just out of control. Much like a certain North American nation. And I don't mean Canada.

Yep. Mexico is just as out of control. WHy do you think they elected someone who could actually help their nation and not his idiotic opponet?

Iran = Persia, right? Turns out I don't remember nearly as much history as I thought I did.

Yep. Persia = Iran.

This is like the second time you've spouted your bias 'information' regarding the economic situation in Iran, some people are sick of it...

Nah, they are just sick of you spouting moronic and untruth stuff towards people who are spouting the truth like Velatia.

And immedeatley thereafter, Iran raised the voting age from 15 to 18 to ensure that the young progressives who caused those defeats in the local elections would not get to vote in regional or national elections later this year.

And some people call Iran "democratic" :rolleyes:

Goes to show that peoplle have no idea what they are talking about as usual.

And immedeatley thereafter, Iran raised the voting age from 15 to 18 to ensure that the young progressives who caused those defeats in the local elections would not get to vote in regional or national elections later this year.

And some people call Iran "democratic" :rolleyes:

Raising the voting age is undemocratic? The purpose is decidedly underhanded but deeply political. What are 15 year olds doing voting anyway? Perhaps there are other reasons for this change, after all several nations have voting ages of 18.

Raising the voting age is undemocratic? The purpose is decidedly underhanded but deeply political. What are 15 year olds doing voting anyway? Perhaps there are other reasons for this change, after all several nations have voting ages of 18.

Think about it! Who wants to reform Iran? The Younger Generation. By eliminating the 15 year old voting age, they have effectively blocked the 15, 16, and 17 yo from voting for reform. This leads the reformers short of voters.

Does not matter any way, as reformers are the only ones to be ruled ineligible to run for office anyway.

Think about it! Who wants to reform Iran? The Younger Generation. By eliminating the 15 year old voting age, they have effectively blocked the 15, 16, and 17 yo from voting for reform. This leads the reformers short of voters.

Does not matter any way, as reformers are the only ones to be ruled ineligible to run for office anyway.

Yes, but 18 is not undemocratic. Underhanded, surely. People still get the vote. I I disagree with this action (even though I do feel 15 is too young to vote), and I definitely think that Iran needs to be reformed and this is a sleazy political sleight. However, to say it is undemocratic is fallacious.

Yes, but 18 is not undemocratic. Underhanded, surely. People still get the vote. I I disagree with this action (even though I do feel 15 is too young to vote), and I definitely think that Iran needs to be reformed and this is a sleazy political sleight. However, to say it is undemocratic is fallacious.

I agree that it is not so much as undemocratic but the fact that they did it shortly AFTER the President's defeat in local elections does make it undemocratic.

Think about it! Who wants to reform Iran? The Younger Generation. By eliminating the 15 year old voting age, they have effectively blocked the 15, 16, and 17 yo from voting for reform. This leads the reformers short of voters.

Does not matter any way, as reformers are the only ones to be ruled ineligible to run for office anyway.

The matter is not as black and white as you think; Iran has serious democratic deficits and there is currently a political struggle over the desired amount of democratic control within the governing bodies. This does not mean that we should interpret every change in their democratic system in this light. In my country the voting age is eighteen and I do not desire a lower voting age. Iran has generally a young population and this reform would not change the progressive majority of the post-revolution generation.

The matter is not as black and white as you think; Iran has serious democratic deficits and there is currently a political struggle over the desired amount of democratic control within the governing bodies. This does not mean that we should interpret every change in their democratic system in this light. In my country the voting age is eighteen and I do not desire a lower voting age. Iran has generally a young population and this reform would not change the progressive majority of the post-revolution generation.

In my country the voting age is also 18. I know it is not as black and white as I make it out to appear.

Aww. Iran is so cute when its angry :)

And honestly, I don't think we will worry much about Iran. You know what happens if we get involved there with the Iranians? Iraq 2...Endless waves of Sunni martyrs coming to fulfill a thousand years of hate. I know the Iranians don't want that.

Aww. Iran is so cute when its angry :)

And honestly, I don't think we will worry much about Iran. You know what happens if we get involved there with the Iranians? Iraq 2...Endless waves of Sunni martyrs coming to fulfill a thousand years of hate. I know the Iranians don't want that.

That would be Shia and not Sunni :rolleyes:

In my country the voting age is also 18. I know it is not as black and white as I make it out to appear.

I expect you do. ;) Iran is not a democratic country but its democratic institutions provide it with great potential for a peaceful transition to democracy similar to European transitions in the 19th and beginning of the 20th centuries.

That would be Shia and not Sunni :rolleyes:

No. I am saying that the Sunnis would see a chance to attack the shiite majority of Iran. They'd get this chance, because the Us would invade and cause chaos. Better?

No. I am saying that the Sunnis would see a chance to attack the shiite majority of Iran. They'd get this chance, because the Us would invade and cause chaos. Better?

Ah now I see what you are getting at.

Ah now I see what you are getting at.

:)

No. I am saying that the Sunnis would see a chance to attack the shiite majority of Iran. They'd get this chance, because the Us would invade and cause chaos. Better?

Currently they lack this opportunity, right ;)