NationStates Jolt Archive

I've successfully gotten everyone migrated to Open Office. I've officially been given the go ahead to start the migration to Linux.

I'm choosing Ubuntu because of the Long Term Support Option. I've been pre-approval to purchase that option for our computers. (At least for the first few.)

I was surprised how open my boss was to the idea. I was also very clear that Ubuntu was not Windows. It was more like migrating from Windows to Mac.

I really hope this is a painless migration like it was from MS Office to Open Office.

Well, I hope it works out well for you.
So how much money are you saving the company with that move? I wish our government would get this idea one day, rather than cutting back on education and whatnot or raising taxes..

The switch from MS Office to OpenOffice isnt that hard IMHO (unless you are working with stupid stubborn idiots who refuse to change) . Good luck with Linux.

Well, I hope it works out well for you.
So how much money are you saving the company with that move? I wish our government would get this idea one day, rather than cutting back on education and whatnot or raising taxes..

Our government had the idea, but still cut back on education and whatnot and raised taxes! :(

Well, I hope it works out well for you.
So how much money are you saving the company with that move? I wish our government would get this idea one day, rather than cutting back on education and whatnot or raising taxes..

$150/ computer for the MS Office Suite.

I'm opting for the LTS option on my computer and maybe a second (depending on the issues I encounter). LTS is $250, the Vista upgrade is $259. I will have to buy some emulation software @ $50/computer, but all the computers won't need it. So I'll be saving the company $200/ computer after the first two computers.

There's also the added benefit of having a stable OS. I spend at least four hours a week doing routine maintanence on the computers that I won't have to do after the migration.

I will also officially be able to add "system administrator" to my business card.

I've successfully gotten everyone migrated to Open Office. I've officially been given the go ahead to start the migration to Linux.

I'm choosing Ubuntu because of the Long Term Support Option. I've been pre-approval to purchase that option for our computers. (At least for the first few.)

I was surprised how open my boss was to the idea. I was also very clear that Ubuntu was not Windows. It was more like migrating from Windows to Mac.

I really hope this is a painless migration like it was from MS Office to Open Office.
All the best wishes for the migration! Hals- und Beinbruch! You make Tux a very happy penguin!

The switch from MS Office to OpenOffice isnt that hard IMHO (unless you are working with stupid stubborn idiots who refuse to change) . Good luck with Linux.

I met alot of resistence when I started the OO migration. Now I think they'd riot if I removed it. The last few to get the upgrade were very excited after hearing all the positive feedback.

Thanks for the support everyone!

that's really cool! I hope everything goes well.

We wish you good luck! (http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k117/SystemKarela/abusingthecamera/tuxes.jpg)

Thanks.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

I hope it fails miserably.

I hope it fails miserably.

How's the weather up in Redmond? They still serving all beverages imaginable at the MS campus?

I hope it goes well. You make Tux smile.

Linux is evil. :mad:

What the heck is your work anyway, Snafaturi?

Linux is evil. :mad:

What the heck is your work anyway, Snafaturi?

Yes, its a communsist conspiricy to give Americans free software that they have the right to pay hunderads of dollars for?

http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Linux

Just a few questions -

how many users?

how are you looking to standardise your builds?

will all your applications run on the platform you have chosen?

what roadblocks will your chosen platform create when looking at upgrading or implementing new applications?

is all the hardware compatible with your chosen platform?

what level of support do you have with your platform vendor?

what changes do you need to make to your network or network devices?

What kind of training do you need to perform for your user community?

Is the support staff familiar with troubleshooting platform related issues?

Cheers!

How's the weather up in Redmond? They still serving all beverages imaginable at the MS campus?

Certainly. We don't even have to mix our own drinks unless we want to, unlike the Linux equivalent.

Certainly. We don't even have to mix our own drinks unless we want to, unlike the Linux equivalent.

MS fucked it with Vista.

And I've been using MS products since MS-DOS.

Given the choice I will champion a non MS environment.

Certainly. We don't even have to mix our own drinks unless we want to, unlike the Linux equivalent.
Spoiled clickies :> *emerges a cola*

I was surprised how open my boss was to the idea. I was also very clear that Ubuntu was not Windows. It was more like migrating from Windows to Mac.

I really hope this is a painless migration like it was from MS Office to Open Office.

I'm using Open Office on XP Pro and it works perfectly. Its interface is very similar to MS Office, so no problem at all.
I guess that many companies will shift to Linux/Ubuntu or some other release, expecially since Vista. Vista really chucks resources - and gives you nothing XP Pro didn't.

I'm using Open Office on XP Pro and it works perfectly. Its interface is very similar to MS Office, so no problem at all.
I guess that many companies will shift to Linux/Ubuntu or some other release, expecially since Vista. Vista really chucks resources - and gives you nothing XP Pro didn't.
that weird 'guard' which requires you to confirm every action which might be critical :P Almost as great as MS Bob! Also the concept did not work on DOS.

Linux is evil. :mad:

What the heck is your work anyway, Snafaturi?

I work for a business development firm. Specifically downtown development.

I'm using Open Office on XP Pro and it works perfectly. Its interface is very similar to MS Office, so no problem at all.
I guess that many companies will shift to Linux/Ubuntu or some other release, expecially since Vista. Vista really chucks resources - and gives you nothing XP Pro didn't.

It may look like it takes more resources, but it uses them in a completely different way. In particular the CPU; it measures interrupts in a different way, which makes it more efficient in allocating memory across several threads. So there you go. It might not sound like much, and I don't know how other OSs do it, but that's one thing Vista gives you that XP didn't.

And for the first time in Windows, it brings in the theory of I/O priority. Another thing that Vista gives you that XP didn't.

Yes, its a communsist conspiricy to give Americans free software that they have the right to pay hunderads of dollars for?

http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Linux


You have the right to pay however much you want for anything

Just a few questions -

how many users?
About 10

how are you looking to standardise your builds?
Ubuntu Edgy 6.10.

will all your applications run on the platform you have chosen?
I've found an open source substitute for all of the main software. There's a handfull of apps that I haven't found substitutes for. Of those, there's some great commercially available emulation software (not wine). I still haven't found a solution for Quickbooks, however it's only on one computer. The short term solution is going to be booting to windows to use it. Since it's not used often, that should be acceptable until a long term solution can be found.

what roadblocks will your chosen platform create when looking at upgrading or implementing new applications?
Fortunately, the heavily used software has open source equivalents. The problems will come when someone wants to install iTunes or some such software on their computer.

is all the hardware compatible with your chosen platform?
Yes.

what level of support do you have with your platform vendor?
9-5 for two years. They will respond to all phone calls within 4 hours and all emails within 48. They will walk me through the installation process and networking. BTW: I really like the idea of not having to wait on hold.

what changes do you need to make to your network or network devices?
All the hardware has linux drivers available. One of the things the LTS covers is setting up my network, so I don't have to worry about any oddities I might encounter.

What kind of training do you need to perform for your user community?
I'm planning on running Ubuntu on my machine before I convert any other machines. It will give me time to identify any unique problems my office might encounter. I'm not totally unfamilliar with the Ubuntu platform, I used to have it installed on my laptop. Growing up with DOS, I'm comfortable with command lines.

In general, I get looks of relief when I mention that Linux is command line based. Most of the people in this office remeber the good 'ol days of DOS. I'm trying to keep everyone in a "it's the best of both worlds" mindset.

...and I remind them it's what the kids are all doing.:D

Is the support staff familiar with troubleshooting platform related issues?
We will have the LTS for two years, I'm sure I'll be able to handle most of the trouble shooting after that. There's a Linux Administrator course at the college that I'll be taking (which the company can now pay for since it's work related.) We also contract with a local company that provides Windows/ Linux support if anything goes horribly wrong.

Cheers!

:)

I hope it fails miserably.You hope that they waste their time, effort and money and end up with a solution both inferior for their purposes and more expensive?

Open Office (and of course its predecesor Staroffice) are both superior to MS Office.

I meant that failing, ie. having to end up with windows and windows software in the end, would be inferior.

About 10


Ubuntu Edgy 6.10.


I've found an open source substitute for all of the main software. There's a handfull of apps that I haven't found substitutes for. Of those, there's some great commercially available emulation software (not wine). I still haven't found a solution for Quickbooks, however it's only on one computer. The short term solution is going to be booting to windows to use it. Since it's not used often, that should be acceptable until a long term solution can be found.


Fortunately, the heavily used software has open source equivalents. The problems will come when someone wants to install iTunes or some such software on their computer.


Yes.


9-5 for two years. They will respond to all phone calls within 4 hours and all emails within 48. They will walk me through the installation process and networking. BTW: I really like the idea of not having to wait on hold.


All the hardware has linux drivers available. One of the things the LTS covers is setting up my network, so I don't have to worry about any oddities I might encounter.


I'm planning on running Ubuntu on my machine before I convert any other machines. It will give me time to identify any unique problems my office might encounter. I'm not totally unfamilliar with the Ubuntu platform, I used to have it installed on my laptop. Growing up with DOS, I'm comfortable with command lines.

In general, I get looks of relief when I mention that Linux is command line based. Most of the people in this office remeber the good 'ol days of DOS. I'm trying to keep everyone in a "it's the best of both worlds" mindset.

...and I remind them it's what the kids are all doing.:D


We will have the LTS for two years, I'm sure I'll be able to handle most of the trouble shooting after that. There's a Linux Administrator course at the college that I'll be taking (which the company can now pay for since it's work related.) We also contract with a local company that provides Windows/ Linux support if anything goes horribly wrong.



:)

Thumbs Up!!!! And thanks for taking the time to reply to my questions.

I think you have an advantage (I think from reading your reply) that your users are familiar with non GUI environments...

My user base usually ranges from a couple of hundred to just under ten thousand so I don't have some of the advantages you have but I am interested in hearing how your migration works out.

What about user admin/security?

Thumbs Up!!!! And thanks for taking the time to reply to my questions.
Your welcome. I'm very happy you liked my answers. Makes me a little less nervous about the migration.

I think you have an advantage (I think from reading your reply) that your users are familiar with non GUI environments...
It's a big reason I'm confident of it's successful implementation in my company. No one is expecting it to be just like windows. I'm trying to sell it as the "best of both worlds" solution. Which I believe it is.

My user base usually ranges from a couple of hundred to just under ten thousand so I don't have some of the advantages you have but I am interested in hearing how your migration works out.
All linux?

What about user admin/security?
I'll be handling the admin.

Security is one thing I'm still doing research on.

One of my clients did a complete replacement of their computer systems about 2 years ago. I convinced them to go ahead and spend the money on decent computers and get rid of their old paperweights. They were running 500MHz machines with Windows 2k and a server running Novell 5.0. It was a nightmare to keep everything working with users who seemed to make it their personal mission in life to make my job miserable. Seems like once a month I would have problems because they could not understand that there was a 255 characters from root limit to file names

I was looking at changing over to Linux (Suse because the server was running Novell – sometimes a client gets an idea stuck in their head and there is nothing you can do about it). I figured I could wipe the paperweights to run a simple linux terminal on them and buy a nicely powered server to run all the apps (mostly just office anyway). Throw in open exchange server to bring e-mail in house, and a small comp to run an Apache server (very little traffic to the website), and I would have total control of their entire IT. I was getting really pissed off at Interland (now web.com) loosing e-mails, having the mail servers go down, either spam filtering almost every legitimate e-mail or turning it off completely, folders being randomly inaccessible, etc.

Anyway, it would have been very expensive to make the switchover because while the software was free, the labor to install and configure it properly plus train the staff was prohibitive.

I ended up buying them all new workstations with XP and running MS SBS2003 on the old server hardware. The cost of the MS software (licenses for Office2003 Pro and server client licenses) was actually tiny because this particular client is a non-profit and MS has a great non-profit program.

So now everyone is really happy… except for me.

One thing you have to take into account (and this was a big one for me) is who will support the network when you are not there? Do you want to take a vacation or are you willing to guarantee you will show up 24/365?

Finding someone to work on XP and a SBS2003 was nothing, finding someone willing to be on call when I went on vacation that could competently fix any problems if I went the linux route was impossible.

If you have a larger for-profit company with several competent linux savvy techs (so not relying on one guy to supervise all the microsofties manning the helpdesk), the cost differential of not having to buy MS licenses is huge. Eventually I see most corporations making the switch as the technofobic executives slowly get replaced by people a little more comfortable with thinking

-snip-

It sucks when ppl are completely helpless. Jesus, your company sounds insane. While I'd classify almost everyone here as "novice", they aren't brainless. Which is one of the reasons I think Ubuntu might be right for our company. I think it's all about mindset anyway. If ppl think that the new OS will suck then it will for them. I think I've done a good job of preparing ppl for the transition. They are pretty excited.

We don't have any official in-house IT here anyway. I became the default IT person when ppl realised I knew a little bit about computers. The company we contract with provides Linux and Windows support, so they could handle any major crises while I'm gone. The tech that's assigned to our company loves Ubuntu and is very friendly.

As for small questions, I have no problem with people calling me on vacation. I got used to it when I was managing a store. I just have a standing rule: Nothing inane and nothing that can't wait until I get back. Otherwise I'll turn off my phone for the rest of my vacation. It seems to work.

$150/ computer for the MS Office Suite.

I'm opting for the LTS option on my computer and maybe a second (depending on the issues I encounter). LTS is $250, the Vista upgrade is $259. I will have to buy some emulation software @ $50/computer, but all the computers won't need it. So I'll be saving the company $200/ computer after the first two computers.

There's also the added benefit of having a stable OS. I spend at least four hours a week doing routine maintanence on the computers that I won't have to do after the migration.

I will also officially be able to add "system administrator" to my business card.

You will spend way more time then that down the road ...

Example my new desktop came in HP 7700 Series with 4 gb of ram

Linux kernel used in debian (2.4.27-1-) wont recognize the intel integrated network controller used in that model (no supported driver thus far either) as well as not being able to recognize the 4 gb of ram because HIGHMEM is not enabled in the default kernel

Upgrade to 2.6.8 (debians highest stable package release) and find out the entire 2.6 kernel series has issues with the PCI bus used in that model so re compile kernel 2.4.36-686-spm with HIGHMEM installed and find out that the 2.4 kernel in general sometimes shorts the ram (so recognizing at 3.2 gb not 4 gb) even with HIGHMEM and that there is no 386 or 686 works with

So I try a 64 bit version (IA and AMD) and find out that most current releases use the 2.6 kernel when you use the 64 bit ... which wont even boot because of the PCI bus issues

So there goes two days of work getting an out of the box HP working ... and I have not even started getting the virtual servers working

If I did not need to have linux at this point I would NOT be using it for a desktop distro at least.

And I've been using MS products since MS-DOS.

Newb.

Some us go back to a sad entanglement with Microsoft since Level II BASIC on the TRS-80 circa '79.

Your welcome. I'm very happy you liked my answers. Makes me a little less nervous about the migration.

No worries! You have to start somewhere...and by the sounds of things you have a decent enough environment to do it in.


It's a big reason I'm confident of it's successful implementation in my company. No one is expecting it to be just like windows. I'm trying to sell it as the "best of both worlds" solution. Which I believe it is.

Don't oversell it though. Its too easy to fall into the 'bells and whistles' trap.


All linux?

No...I'm strictly WinTel...but after Vista I have had enough of MS. Plus all the licensing, support and security issues have driven me to decide that the next time I get to run a refresh project I want to push Linux.


I'll be handling the admin.

What if you are not around. Its a good idea to knowledge share.

Security is one thing I'm still doing research on.

Well at least you won't have to deal with the nightmare that is Active X ;)

Newb.

Some us go back to a sad entanglement with Microsoft since Level II BASIC on the TRS-80 circa '79.

LOL Not quite a n00b mate...

first was Commodore Basic v1...back in '77.

Which much to my surprise was coded by MS apparently!

I moved to the TRS-80 then the Apple II+ by '82.

Nice choice! I personally love Ubuntu, and I also use Suse and Fedora on occasion. I wish our company would make such a radical switch, but unfortunately they're the biggest technophobes I've ever encountered. Some computers in this company are still on Windows 98 and NT 4.0, for crying out loud. Although our IT department is so lax and uninterested that I was able to install Linux on my old machine without them even caring, which was nice. Since I've had this new box though it's back to XP...

I have a question. Can you get AutoCAD to run on Linux or something similar?

I have a question. Can you get AutoCAD to run on Linux or something similar?

I'm not entirely certain what an acceptable replacement would be since I don't use the software myself. Here's two links to lists of programs and their open source equivalents.

Link (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=33183)
Link (http://www.linuxrsp.ru/win-lin-soft/table-eng.html)

Here's a link to some commercial emulation software (http://doc.gwos.org/index.php/HowToWine#Alternates_to_WINE).

Hope that helps.

I'm not entirely certain what an acceptable replacement would be since I don't use the software myself. Here's two links to lists of programs and their open source equivalents.

Link (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=33183)
Link (http://www.linuxrsp.ru/win-lin-soft/table-eng.html)

Here's a link to some commercial emulation software (http://doc.gwos.org/index.php/HowToWine#Alternates_to_WINE).

Hope that helps.

Thank you. I hope this information helps me too.

VM Ware could be useful...

I use OO but only because I have old crappy Word 2000. If you already had the latest version of office, I see no reason to mitigate to OO...they're practically the same. I mean, if you had an older version of office, then OO would be a better choice since it's free...but meh.

I use OO but only because I have old crappy Word 2000. If you already had the latest version of office, I see no reason to mitigate to OO...they're practically the same. I mean, if you had an older version of office, then OO would be a better choice since it's free...but meh.

OO has all sorts of cool extras though. The PDF maker saves you $$ and disc space since you no longer need Acrobat. It also has an html and xml editor. Master documents don't have the corruption problem.

I also think Impress is superior to Power Point.