NationStates Jolt Archive

Honestly, is it really so hard for so many self-described socialists to comprehend that not everything that has been done in the name of socialism has been pleaseant?

So many people keep blindly repeating the mistakes of the past, or worse, glorify convenient symbols like Ché or Trotsky. It sickens me. If I see another so-called socialist wearing a Ché T-Shirt because "he's a rebel" or "It's cool", I'm gonna scream! :headbang:

Okay, just go outside to do it.

Honestly, is it really so hard for so many self-described socialists to comprehend that not everything that has been done in the name of socialism has been pleaseant?

So many people keep blindly repeating the mistakes of the past, or worse, glorify convenient symbols like Che or Trotsky. It sickens me. If I see another so-called socialist wearing a Che T-Shirt because "he's a rebel" or "It's cool", I'm gonna scream! :headbang:

Eh? What's that you che?

Good thing you haven't seen my NS Nation's flag then.....

Eh? What's that you che?

Very funny.

Good thing you haven't seen my NS Nation's flag then.....

Probably.

Very funny.

I do my best. I'll be here all che.

I wonder if college students would be wearing Hitler shirts if he'd been more chic?

I wonder if college students would be wearing Hitler shirts if he'd been more chic?
Probably not. Che had his monstrous moments, no question, but at essence he was a true believer in his cause. That's part of the reason he was able to do monstrous things. Hitler's monstrous nature was because he was a monster, not because he was an extreme believer in a particular ethos. He was just a psycho with too much power.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y138/Dragonkirby/Non-Kirby/hypnoche.gif

I'm going to start making Walter Ulbricht T-shirts.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y138/Dragonkirby/Non-Kirby/hypnoche.gif

No! MY I'S!

You know what's worse than wannaba socialists wearing Che Guevera t-shirt's? Political elitists whining about them. Shut the hell up, it's a t-shirt.

You know what's worse than wannaba socialists wearing Che Guevera t-shirt's? Political elitists whining about them. Shut the hell up, it's a t-shirt.

I think they're just mad that no one wants to buy a t-shirt with Maggie Thatcher or Ronald Reagan on it.

I think they're just mad that no one wants to buy a t-shirt with Maggie Thatcher or Ronald Reagan on it.

I want this guy on a t-shirt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Honecker2.jpg)

I actually have a Ludwig von Mises shirt done in the Che Guevarra style, but it's usually covered up by my jacket. I always think people will say something like "zOMG is taht liek an old che gaevara???/"

Probably not. Che had his monstrous moments, no question, but at essence he was a true believer in his cause. That's part of the reason he was able to do monstrous things. Hitler's monstrous nature was because he was a monster, not because he was an extreme believer in a particular ethos. He was just a psycho with too much power.

Bah! If you can make a communist marketable (and that's quite ironic), then you can make anyone marketable! They just need to not be so 'square.' I'm sure (and would not be overly surprised) that some marketing agency could make Der Fuhrer down with Generation Y.

I actually have a Ludwig von Mises shirt done in the Che Guevarra style, but it's usually covered up by my jacket. I always think people will say something like "zOMG is taht liek an old che gaevara???/"

Lol. I didn't even know they made Ludwig von Mises t-shirts...:eek:

ach, chill out. it's only a t-shirt. besides the point is not to celebrate his mistakes but to celebrate his cause. the real socialists that wear the t-shirt know of his mistakes and if they're honest will acknowledge them and learn from them. the fake socialists who don't know of his mistakes barely even know of his cause either. they aren't hurting anyone with wearing the t-shirt.

I think they're just mad that no one wants to buy a t-shirt with Maggie Thatcher or Ronald Reagan on it.

http://www.kapitalisten.se/wordpress/wp-content/rectreagan.jpg

:D

Lol. I didn't even know they made Ludwig von Mises t-shirts...:eek:
It must be mine!


I generally assume people wearing those Che shirts are pro-torture and pro-senseless killing. And I'm happy to tell them that.

http://amaranto.livorno.free.fr/images/smiley/che.gif

Besides, I've been smoking these ever once in a while:

http://www.zigarette.de/images/chezigarettenklein_150.jpg

Honestly, is it really so hard for so many self-described socialists to comprehend that not everything that has been done in the name of socialism has been pleaseant?

So many people keep blindly repeating the mistakes of the past, or worse, glorify convenient symbols like Ché or Trotsky. It sickens me. If I see another so-called socialist wearing a Ché T-Shirt because "he's a rebel" or "It's cool", I'm gonna scream! :headbang:
The problem i have with Che shirts is that it goes against what he believes in.
And yet it has become too bug to stop and yes some wannabe socialisits don't know their shit.

For shame, for shame indeed.

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/9/clichefi5.th.png (http://img143.imageshack.us/my.php?image=clichefi5.png)

I want one of these.

ach, chill out. it's only a t-shirt. besides the point is not to celebrate his mistakes but to celebrate his cause. the real socialists that wear the t-shirt know of his mistakes and if they're honest will acknowledge them and learn from them.
I doubt that a "real" socialist would be caught dead wearing one of those shirts, since they tend to be produced by icky capitalist companies under the same principle that guides them to brand those hil-arious one liners over their other T-shirts.

http://www.thinkgeek.com/images/products/front/pa_viva.jpg
Viva Miyamoto!

Well, let's start:

It's GUEVARA, not GUEVERA. If we are going to put something on a title, let's make it right, ok?

Ernesto "Che" Guevara

Second, you think you have seen a lot of those? Here you can see a protest in a square with hundred of thousands of people wearing that t-shirt. Prepare to be sick. In most public colleges and schools, his face is on every wall.

Third, he was nice, at least he wasn't THAT bad. Too bad Fidel Castro played with him, used him, and then abandoned him.

Fourth, I have a t-shirt more or less similar to those. It has the face of Bruce Lee on it, and most people go "What the fuck are you doing with that, aren't you a...Oh, it's Bruce Lee, nevermind"

Bah! If you can make a communist marketable (and that's quite ironic), then you can make anyone marketable! They just need to not be so 'square.' I'm sure (and would not be overly surprised) that some marketing agency could make Der Fuhrer down with Generation Y.
It's not exactly Der Fuhrer, but WalMart is selling t-shirts with Nazi symbolism (http://www.consumerist.com/consumer/walmart/walmart-sells-nazi-skull-tshirt-213942.php) on them.

It's not exactly Der Fuhrer, but WalMart is selling t-shirts with Nazi symbolism (http://www.consumerist.com/consumer/walmart/walmart-sells-nazi-skull-tshirt-213942.php) on them.

That is so Wal-Mart.

It's not exactly Der Fuhrer, but WalMart is selling t-shirts with Nazi symbolism (http://www.consumerist.com/consumer/walmart/walmart-sells-nazi-skull-tshirt-213942.php) on them.

Gross.

Everybody, meet Che. Che's my baby. :p

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j187/ladamesansmerci/CheGuevara.jpg

It's not exactly Der Fuhrer, but WalMart is selling t-shirts with Nazi symbolism (http://www.consumerist.com/consumer/walmart/walmart-sells-nazi-skull-tshirt-213942.php) on them.
Ho shit, it's a skull! Flee!
Seriously, the only fucking people who will figure that out are people with way too much interest in Naziism, pro or anti.

I had a pint with the bloke who took the photo that became the iconic image.

Beat that.

If you ever meet a person protesting the Guantanamo Bay dealy-o and wearing a Che Guevera T-shirt, you know you've found yourself a nitwit incapable of maintaining even the most basic levels of consistency.

I had a pint with the bloke who took the photo that became the iconic image.

Beat that.
*beats picture*

It's not as fun as beating real people. :(

That is so Wal-Mart.

Apparently, they promised 11 weeks ago to get rid of them, but they haven't yet.

http://www.thinkgeek.com/images/products/front/pa_viva.jpg
Viva Miyamoto!

Agreed.

If you ever meet a person protesting the Guantanamo Bay dealy-o and wearing a Che Guevera T-shirt, you know you've found yourself a nitwit incapable of maintaining even the most basic levels of consistency.

how is consistantly being anti-imperialist inconsistant?

If you ever meet a person protesting the Guantanamo Bay dealy-o and wearing a Che Guevera T-shirt, you know you've found yourself a nitwit incapable of maintaining even the most basic levels of consistency.

QFT.

how is consistantly being anti-imperialist inconsistant?

Che Guevara is famed for saying that jury trials are nothing more than a bourgeouis luxury.

Does anyone else think it's funny that a communist revolutionary is a capitalist marketing icon?

And that a guy named "Trotskylvania" is ranting about it?

Does anyone else think it's funny that a communist revolutionary is a capitalist marketing icon?

And that a guy named "Trotskylvania" is ranting about it?

Yes, It's hillarious.:D

http://www.thinkgeek.com/images/products/front/pa_viva.jpg
Viva Miyamoto!
Hehe, funny.
It's not exactly Der Fuhrer, but WalMart is selling t-shirts with Nazi symbolism (http://www.consumerist.com/consumer/walmart/walmart-sells-nazi-skull-tshirt-213942.php) on them.
That is condemnable.
Ho shit, it's a skull! Flee!
Seriously, the only fucking people who will figure that out are people with way too much interest in Naziism, pro or anti.
You'd get your ass beaten if you wore it in Germany, that's for sure.

A good female friend of mine has a T-shirt in the typical Ché-style, but instead of him it's with a picture of Klaus Kinski. Now that is stylish!

Ladame has a stuffed Che doll... :D

A good female friend of mine has a T-shirt in the typical Ché-style, but instead of him it's with a picture of Klaus Kinski. Now that is stylish!
I bought my daughter a t-shirt of Peter "Che" Griffin. She likes it very much.

I think they're just mad that no one wants to buy a t-shirt with Maggie Thatcher or Ronald Reagan on it.

No, we're commies pissed a commie symbol is being used as mass-marketed capitalist faux-rebellion.

I bought my daughter a t-shirt of Peter "Che" Griffin. She likes it very much.
You're a cool dad, if I may say so!
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/GermanNightmare/chegriffinsmall.jpg
I can see why she fancies it, too!

You're a cool dad, if I may say so!
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/GermanNightmare/chegriffinsmall.jpg
I can see why she fancies it, too!

Yes. Yes I am. ;)

No, we're commies pissed a commie symbol is being used as mass-marketed capitalist faux-rebellion.

Obviously, I wasn't talking about people from your side of the political spectrum.

My friend has a Che shirt.
it says:
"Che Guevera has no feet"
i dont get it because i am politically inept
but it seems like it should be funny.
:p

Ladame has a stuffed Che doll... :D
Yes, and she sleeps with Che every night. :eek:

It's not exactly Der Fuhrer, but WalMart is selling t-shirts with Nazi symbolism (http://www.consumerist.com/consumer/walmart/walmart-sells-nazi-skull-tshirt-213942.php) on them.

I wasn't aware that World War II ended in 1978. Either that, or whoever made that shirt is an accountant (1945+-33)

I wasn't aware that World War II ended in 1978. Either that, or whoever made that shirt is an accountant (1945+-33)

Yeah, I don't think whatever numbskull came up with that "design" had much on the ball in history class.

I wasn't aware that World War II ended in 1978. Either that, or whoever made that shirt is an accountant (1945+-33)
Well, technically speaking WWII hasn't ended yet (And probably won't for quite some time).

I seriously doubt that fact has anything to do with that shirt either though.

You'd get your ass beaten if you wore it in Germany, that's for sure.
But Germany is oversensitive about Naziism so that fact is out of proportion.

It's not exactly Der Fuhrer, but WalMart is selling t-shirts with Nazi symbolism (http://www.consumerist.com/consumer/walmart/walmart-sells-nazi-skull-tshirt-213942.php) on them.There's at least a couple of neo-Nazi brands here in Europe, and while it's not often you'll see it in the average clothes store, it happens.

So yups, Hitler's marketable, just like everything else in the world. I personally can't wait to pay for breathing.

There's at least a couple of neo-Nazi brands here in Europe, and while it's not often you'll see it in the average clothes store, it happens.

So yups, Hitler's marketable, just like everything else in the world. I personally can't wait to pay for breathing.

http://www.1115.org/archives/perriair.jpg
Spaceballs FTW! :D

http://www.fan-de-cinema.com/films/documentaire/el_che_ernesto_guevara_enquete_sur_un_homme_de_legende.jpg

Honestly, is it really so hard for so many self-described socialists to comprehend that not everything that has been done in the name of socialism has been pleaseant?

So many people keep blindly repeating the mistakes of the past, or worse, glorify convenient symbols like Ché or Trotsky. It sickens me. If I see another so-called socialist wearing a Ché T-Shirt because "he's a rebel" or "It's cool", I'm gonna scream! :headbang:

Indeed.

To be fair, 99% of people who wear those shirts have no idea who he was.

Indeed.

To be fair, 99% of people who wear those shirts have no idea who he was.they know el CHE is anti-establishment.
they know el CHE is a revolution icon.

its enough for a cool T-shirt

they know is anti-establishment.
they know he is a revolution icon.

Anti-establishment maybe, but they don't know anything else about him. It's moronic.

Anti-establishment maybe, but they don't know anything else about him. It's moronic.Its just a cool T-shirt.

we elected Bush.. gave him the "football" (nukes).. and did NOT know him enough either.

we elected Bush.. gave him the "football" (nukes).. and did NOT know him enough either.

No, but I could have told all of you it was a bad idea. ;) :P

Obviously, I wasn't talking about people from your side of the political spectrum.

No, but the thread-starter and I represent the same side, I assumed it was directed towards the OP.

You'd get your ass beaten if you wore it in Germany, that's for sure.

No you wouldn't, the Germans are pansies.

No you wouldn't, the Germans are pansies.I can never tell if you're sarcastic or just a troll...

Does anybody else find it funny that a relativerly minor revolutionary is so famous on these shirts? Like having a shirt with Kerensky on it.

I can never tell if you're sarcastic or just a troll...

I'm entirely serious.

No you wouldn't, the Germans are pansies.

Yep, us Germans are totally and utterly unviolent. No violent crimes whatsoever at all in this country... :rolleyes:

You know, even for your particular style you're reaching new lows these days.

But Germany is oversensitive about Naziism so that fact is out of proportion.
I don't see how that is a bad thing.
http://www.1115.org/archives/perriair.jpg
Spaceballs FTW! :D
Aaah! PerriAir!
No you wouldn't, the Germans are pansies.
Yes, I would, and no, we ain't. 'N Satz heiße Ohren gefällig?
I'm entirely serious.
And I'm entirely serious when I ask you to stop this flamebaiting.

Yep, us Germans are totally and utterly unviolent. No violent crimes whatsoever at all in this country... :rolleyes:

You know, even for your particular style you're reaching new lows these days.

You're German, CW? o.O

I thought you were Irish.

You're German, CW? o.O

I thought you were Irish.

Born in Germany, living in Ireland these days ;)

Born in Germany, living in Ireland these days ;)

Ah.

Honestly, is it really so hard for so many self-described socialists to comprehend that not everything that has been done in the name of socialism has been pleaseant?

So many people keep blindly repeating the mistakes of the past, or worse, glorify convenient symbols like Ché or Trotsky. It sickens me. If I see another so-called socialist wearing a Ché T-Shirt because "he's a rebel" or "It's cool", I'm gonna scream! :headbang:

I actually look at Che Guevara as a hero.

I don't see how that is a bad thing.
There is sensitivity to Naziism, then there is banning anything from the country that is remotely related to it.

There is sensitivity to Naziism, then there is banning anything from the country that is remotely related to it.
And then there is putting the death's head worn my the SS guards in extermination camps on a T-shirt. :rolleyes:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y138/Dragonkirby/Non-Kirby/hypnoche.gif

You stole that from me you absolute bastard!

And then there is putting the death's head worn my the SS guards in extermination camps on a T-shirt. :rolleyes:
Oh shit, it's a skull! We're screwedddd!
Like I said, Germans are overly sensitive about Naziism.

I wonder if college students would be wearing Hitler shirts if he'd been more chic?
Have you never seen this Tshirt:
http://www.8ball.co.uk/productimages/26772-2.jpg
Best image I can find, sorry. It says:
"Hitler's European Tour 1939 - 1945"
Below it says:
* September 1939 Poland
* September 1940 England Cancelled
* April 1940 Norway
* April 1941 Jugoslavia
* May 1940 Luxembourg
* May 1941 Greece
* May 1940 Holland
* June 1941 Crete
* May 1940 Belgium
* August 1942 Russia Cancelled
* June 1940 France
* July 1945 Berlin Bunker.

There's also a Tshirt design that has a yoyo coming off Hitler's outstretched hand with the sentence, "European Yoyo champion 1939-1945"

One final one I remember had Hitler doing his silly wee salute with some dope plants touching his hand. It said underneath, "My plants are this tall!"

Oh shit, it's a skull! We're screwedddd!
Like I said, Germans are overly sensitive about Naziism.
It's not just any skull, man. I have many T-shirts with various skulls on it. That's not the point.
The point is that this particular skull has a very distinctive history of its own, and displaying it as a fashion item diminishes or even glorifies the horrors that those wearing it on their uniforms wreaked in the camps.
If you don't see that difference, I feel sorry for you.

Have you never seen this Tshirt:
http://www.8ball.co.uk/productimages/26772-2.jpg
or this one

http://www.paistortuga.net/binladillas/marketing/thumb/TN_Nike%20-%20Just%20Do%20It.JPG

It's not just any skull, man. I have many T-shirts with various skulls on it. That's not the point.
It's entirely the point. If all images used by the Nazis are taboo, the Nazis have won.

Nice that you're not responsive to the rest of my statement...
It's entirely the point. If all images used by the Nazis are taboo, the Nazis have won.
It's the other way around: Because, luckily, the Nazis haven't won, those images are taboo (or, over here, illegal).
What good exactly does it do when you're displaying the Nazi flag, the swastika as it was used by the 3rd Reich, or the various other insignia that reflect those dark 12 years of German history?
If nothing else, it's a display of ignorance, disrespect, stupidity and a questionable political orientation.
There are images that the Nazis misused, and others that they invented or corrupted, so that the only meaning they nowadays carry directly refer to those crimes committed. I don't see how trying to somehow "normalize" that is going to do any good whatsoever.

It's entirely the point. If all images used by the Nazis are taboo, the Nazis have won.Not providing a platform =/ creating a taboo.

People with neo-Nazi symbols adorning their clothing should expect to be chased the fuck out of town. Shops selling neo-Nazi shit should expect to be chased out of town. Is it to supress the ideology? No. Does it supress the ideology? No.

It simply removes a violent antisocial element from a social setting. The two are diametrically opposed & pretending they can coexist is idiotic. A neo-Con won't gut you like a pig for no apparent reason. A Bonehead will. To pretend the issue is something other than that, is not just fucking retarded, it puts people's lives in jeopardy. Neo-Nazism isn't a hobby for a bunch of feeble old farts that hates the world. It's a loosely organised global terrorist organisation with one single goal: to radicalize social, racial & political problems through the use of excessive violence & assasinations.

There's a great big difference between denying monsters the right to be monsters, and denying them the opportunity to be monsters around you. The former plays into their hands & at best only makes them harder to keep track of. The latter saves lives.

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/9/clichefi5.th.png (http://img143.imageshack.us/my.php?image=clichefi5.png)

I want one of these.

Hell yes!

It's entirely the point. If all images used by the Nazis are taboo, the Nazis have won.

but this is one they created.

It's entirely the point. If all images used by the Nazis are taboo, the Nazis have won.

Maybe we can make the Terrorists believe that Nazi images are taboo and then the Nazis will have beaten the Terrorists and then all we have to do is beat the Nazis again.

Probably not. Che had his monstrous moments, no question, but at essence he was a true believer in his cause. That's part of the reason he was able to do monstrous things. Hitler's monstrous nature was because he was a monster, not because he was an extreme believer in a particular ethos. He was just a psycho with too much power.
Prove ether of those things.

Prove ether of those things.

Are you saying that Che Guevera didn't believe in the revolution?

Honestly, is it really so hard for so many self-described socialists to comprehend that not everything that has been done in the name of socialism has been pleaseant?

So many people keep blindly repeating the mistakes of the past, or worse, glorify convenient symbols like Ché or Trotsky. It sickens me. If I see another so-called socialist wearing a Ché T-Shirt because "he's a rebel" or "It's cool", I'm gonna scream! :headbang:

Calm down. Of course not everything done in the name of socialism has been pleasant. Not everything for ANY ideology has been pleasant.

Not providing a platform =/ creating a taboo.

People with neo-Nazi symbols adorning their clothing should expect to be chased the fuck out of town. Shops selling neo-Nazi shit should expect to be chased out of town. Is it to supress the ideology? No. Does it supress the ideology? No.

It simply removes a violent antisocial element from a social setting. The two are diametrically opposed & pretending they can coexist is idiotic. A neo-Con won't gut you like a pig for no apparent reason. A Bonehead will. To pretend the issue is something other than that, is not just fucking retarded, it puts people's lives in jeopardy. Neo-Nazism isn't a hobby for a bunch of feeble old farts that hates the world. It's a loosely organised global terrorist organisation with one single goal: to radicalize social, racial & political problems through the use of excessive violence & assasinations.

There's a great big difference between denying monsters the right to be monsters, and denying them the opportunity to be monsters around you. The former plays into their hands & at best only makes them harder to keep track of. The latter saves lives.

Most Neo-nazis have no idea what they're talking about. They just spew off a bunch of racist crap without understanding the motives and factors that played into the real National Socialist movement. Someone can fully support Germany's involvement in World War 2 without supporting the Nazis or racism, but unfortunately most neo-nazis are just simply racist. I find it ironic for an American to claim to be a neo-nazi, since the Nazi party was originally the GERMAN Worker's Party, and everything they stood for was in relation to GERMANY.

Are you saying that Che Guevera didn't believe in the revolution?
Hitler believed in a revolution as well, just a different one, and one that neither you nor I agree with. What both did was inexcusable, no matter their reasons.

There is nothing noble about believing so much in an ideology, any ideology, that you are willing to go against such basic concepts as the respect for human life. In fact, such sentiments area an appeal to man's basest nature.

Yep, us Germans are totally and utterly unviolent. No violent crimes whatsoever at all in this country... :rolleyes:

You know, even for your particular style you're reaching new lows these days.

I just don't find the Germans very intimidating. I mean, I'm scared of the Italians, they're psychotic.

Prove ether of those things.

There's no ether involved in this. ;)

I just don't find the Germans very intimidating. I mean, I'm scared of the Italians, they're psychotic.

I guess they DID put up a pretty good fight in WW2.

Wait a second...

Yep, us Germans are totally and utterly unviolent. I dont know about that.. I was at this big Rave party @ Berlin.. and this vampire-looking girl violently raped me.. my wii was hurting :D

I want this guy on a t-shirt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Honecker2.jpg)

http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/8498/honeckerlo9.png

Done. Took about 15 seconds in Photoshop.

http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/8498/honeckerlo9.png

Done. Took about 15 seconds in Photoshop.

A winner is you! :D

I wonder how many people would even recognize him on a shirt...

I want an Erich Honecker T-shirt!

I want an Erich Honecker T-shirt!

I could wear it to German class...I think it would fit in with the stuff we're doing, since the entire class is about the DDR and the book we're reading is set in the 1970's when he was in office.

I could wear it to German class...I think it would fit in with the stuff we're doing, since the entire class is about the DDR and the book we're reading is set in the 1970's when he was in office.

Is it Am Kurzen Ende der Sonnenallee?

It would be awesome, I'd wear it to German as well, but it wouldn't mix with pre-1848 Germany as well.

Is it Am Kurzen Ende der Sonnenallee?

Yup, that's what we're reading in 201. We had our midterm today as a matter of fact.

It would be awesome, I'd wear it to German as well, but it wouldn't mix with pre-1848 Germany as well.

I'd doubt it...although there's always room for Goethe t-shirts.

Honestly, is it really so hard for so many self-described socialists to comprehend that not everything that has been done in the name of socialism has been pleaseant?

So many people keep blindly repeating the mistakes of the past, or worse, glorify convenient symbols like Ché or Trotsky. It sickens me. If I see another so-called socialist wearing a Ché T-Shirt because "he's a rebel" or "It's cool", I'm gonna scream! :headbang:

1/2 the people that wear them probably don't know a thing about him.

1/2 the people that wear them probably don't know a thing about him.

More like two-thirds.

More like two-thirds.

Yeah probably. I gave a low figure ;). It's as funny as the anarchists who whine when things are unfair.