NationStates Jolt Archive

Read an post your opinions:

No offense, but that could easily be a virus that you want others to download, is it really too long to not be able to post it here?

No offense, but that could easily be a virus that you want others to download, is it really too long to not be able to post it here?

You just have to trust me, when I typed it my internet wasn't working, no it isn't too long to type again, but it would be an annoyance

Just open it; you don't have to download it.

Been tried.

Many times.

Human greed always defeats it.

You just have to trust me, when I typed it my internet wasn't working, no it isn't too long to type again, but it would be an annoyance

copy and paste.

Okay give me a second, I will copy here in a minute

SOCIALIST PARTY
OF THE
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
Nationalization Naturalization Equalization

Definition of Socialism-
Socialism refers to a broad array of doctrines or political movements that envisage a socio-economic system in which property and the distribution of wealth are subject to social control. This control may be direct—exercised through popular collectives such as workers' councils—or indirect—exercised on behalf of the people by the state. As an economic system, socialism is often characterized by state or community ownership of the means of production.
Goals:
1: the nationalization of all major industry, all natural resources are to be put under the direct control of the government, so that equal distribution can be assured.
2: the nationalization of all major corporations. Every major business corporation will be put under the control of the government, allowing small business to flourish. All public services will be put under the direct control of the government.
3: An economy that focuses on naturalization, or an eco-friendly economy.
4: All wealth in the country will be divided among the people of the nation; not according to social class, or race, but equally.
The ultimate goal of this party is to have an eco-friendly economy, a government controlled entirely by the people, and a place where small business is not threatened by large corporations. A nation for the people, a place where no one goes hungry or is left homeless; a structured society where everything is divided among everyone and all get an even share of everything.
President of the Socialist Committee
________________________________________

I am so not opening a random Word document.

I am so not opening a random Word document.

I have posted it on the general screen, if you want to keep the document, you can, it is not a virus. But please don't post it again, or edit it without my permission.

I have posted it on the general screen, if you want to keep the document, you can, it is not a virus. But please don't post it again, or edit it without my permission.

Don't worry about it - I'm not touching your pseudo-Communism with a ten metre pole.

Definition of Socialism-
Socialism refers to a broad array of doctrines or political movements that envisage a socio-economic system in which property and the distribution of wealth are subject to social control. This control may be direct—exercised through popular collectives such as workers' councils—or indirect—exercised on behalf of the people by the state. As an economic system, socialism is often characterized by state or community ownership of the means of production.
Fair enough.


1: the nationalization of all major industry, all natural resources are to be put under the direct control of the government, so that equal distribution can be assured.
How is putting all the resources under the direct control of the government different from putting them all under the direct control of a corporation or group of corporations? It's still just a group of powerful people making decisions for their underlings.


2: the nationalization of all major corporations. Every major business corporation will be put under the control of the government, allowing small business to flourish. All public services will be put under the direct control of the government.
But as soon as small businesses flourish, they'll become major corporations, and get placed under government control?


3: An economy that focuses on naturalization, or an eco-friendly economy.
Fine.


4: All wealth in the country will be divided among the people of the nation; not according to social class, or race, but equally.
What if said people don't actually work for the country's benefit? What if they have diseases or disorders that require more money to be spent on them than on others? What about families, will children get shares of the wealth too, even infants, or will it go to the parents?


The ultimate goal of this party is to have an eco-friendly economy, a government controlled entirely by the people, and a place where small business is not threatened by large corporations. A nation for the people, a place where no one goes hungry or is left homeless; a structured society where everything is divided among everyone and all get an even share of everything.
Sounds nice. But what if people go hungry or homeless because they basically don't want to work? Do they deserve to be taken care of as much? Also, what's to ensure that the government officials don't take the money for themselves rather than redistributing it among the people, as happed in soviet Russia? And if there aren't officials to redistribute the wealth, wouldn't the result be more of an anarchy?

Socialism is a good idea in principle, but in practice it runs into a lot of thorny questions.

Don't worry about it - I'm not touching your pseudo-Communism with a ten metre pole.

You have any particular problems with it. I am open to suggestions from any bastard capitalist.

You have any particular problems with it. I am open to suggestions from any bastard capitalist.

It's so odd, yesterday I was called socialist, today I'm called capitalist. Odd that people on this board never seem to know what either of them are, usually black-and-whitishly confusing them with Communism or Anarcho-Capitalism.

I am so leaving the country if this ever came to pass.

Fair enough.


How is putting all the resources under the direct control of the government different from putting them all under the direct control of a corporation or group of corporations? It's still just a group of powerful people making decisions for their underlings.


But as soon as small businesses flourish, they'll become major corporations, and get placed under government control?


Fine.


What if said people don't actually work for the country's benefit? What if they have diseases or disorders that require more money to be spent on them than on others? What about families, will children get shares of the wealth too, even infants, or will it go to the parents?


Sounds nice. But what if people go hungry or homeless because they basically don't want to work? Do they deserve to be taken care of as much? Also, what's to ensure that the government officials don't take the money for themselves rather than redistributing it among the people, as happed in soviet Russia? And if there aren't officials to redistribute the wealth, wouldn't the result be more of an anarchy?

Socialism is a good idea in principle, but in practice it runs into a lot of thorny questions.

If the people don't work, they will go to prison. There they will be less of a drain of society, they will not recieve the privaliges that prisoners get in todays prisons, food and a bed that is it. The government will have control of major industrial corporations, such as oil, coal, powerplants, or other major consumers industries. Not all business. Children under the age of 18 have their share of the wealth sent to their parents; so basicly parents with children will get more money than those without them. But there will be a team of investigators to filter out those seeking get more money simply by haveing loads of children.
In the distrobution of wealth, there will be several people who maintain the distributing process, they will be elected by the people, instead of appointed by ranking government officials. They will be re-elected every year to avoid them from becoming obscenely rich by taking to much money. If they are caught they will spend a long time in prison.

I think I covered some of what you asked.

If the people don't work, they will go to prison. There they will be less of a drain of society, they will not recieve the privaliges that prisoners get in todays prisons, food and a bed that is it. The government will have control of major industrial corporations, such as oil, coal, powerplants, or other major consumers industries. Not all business. Children under the age of 18 have their share of the wealth sent to their parents; so basicly parents with children will get more money than those without them. But there will be a team of investigators to filter out those seeking get more money simply by haveing loads of children.
In the distrobution of wealth, there will be several people who maintain the distributing process, they will be elected by the people, instead of appointed by ranking government officials. They will be re-elected every year to avoid them from becoming obscenely rich by taking to much money. If they are caught they will spend a long time in prison.

I think I covered some of what you asked.

Question: Who runs the prisons?

If they are run by the government officials, when a retiring government official is caught embezzling he can merely bribe the other officials to clear his name. If they aren't, then how will the law enforcement have any power with government officials?

Question: Who runs the prisons?

If they are run by the government officials, when a retiring government official is caught embezzling he can merely bribe the other officials to clear his name. If they aren't, then how will the law enforcement have any power with government officials?

Prisons will be run by the common people not the government, they will be maintained by the government but not run by the government. If an official is caught embezzling he will spend a lot of quality time with the people he stole from. They will recieve no special treatment.

I am recruiting members for the Socialist Party, if you are interested in joining please post it. If you want to join, but also want some things changed post them as well, I will look over them and let the rest of the members of my party review it and maybe we will change something that you wanted changed.

just because you can bribe police officers in the US doesn't mean it's a common thing..

and to the question:
Sounds nice. But what if people go hungry or homeless because they basically don't want to work? Do they deserve to be taken care of as much?

they do deserve to be taken care of yes.. that is the way we live in denmark.. you get money when you don't work.. just enough to get food and to live a pretty okay life.. but not enough to make people wanna stay that way.. and you will get this money as long as your looking for a job.. and a place called AF helps the unemployed to get a job.. if i should explane about the whole system it would fill up to whole pages.. so i'll just stop now.. but you get the idea..

WOW what a great idea, if only it worked...

You see, socialism DOESNT work. It relies too much on human beings being happy when they have everything they need. Thats just the thing though, human beings are NEVER satisfied.

When every one gets their butt wiped by the government, where is the incentive to work? Nothing will get done. That was the Soviet Union's problem: people got paid no matter what, so the least amount of work was done. To an extent, that happens today already. If everything is already provided for you, you essentially have no responsibilty, why should you work hard at a job when you know you'll get paid no matter what? If businesses are controlled by the government, why should they work hard to make new things? There is no competition.

Also, if the government takes care of everything, the taxes will be HUGE!

It is a wonderful theory ON PAPER, but in real life it just doesnt work! I'm sorry.

just because you can bribe police officers in the US doesn't mean it's a common thing..

and to the question:
Sounds nice. But what if people go hungry or homeless because they basically don't want to work? Do they deserve to be taken care of as much?

they do deserve to be taken care of yes.. that is the way we live in denmark.. you get money when you don't work.. just enough to get food and to live a pretty okay life.. but not enough to make people wanna stay that way.. and you will get this money as long as your looking for a job.. and a place called AF helps the unemployed to get a job.. if i should explane about the whole system it would fill up to whole pages.. so i'll just stop now.. but you get the idea..


Yes, I get the Idea, I don't know how to compose my views into something that conveys everthing I mean, I just typed that paper on the first page to give the brief overview, and to recruit members. I am not gifted in the oratory. I just started the Socialist Party where I live. East Tennessee. My VP does most of the writing and speaking, but she is home sick today, so the job was left to me.

I am in third period now, and the bell is about to ring. The internet connection at UT sucks ass but I will live. If you are interested in joining my socialist party post your name in the thread I will be back on wednsday.

SOCIALIST PARTY
OF THE
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
Nationalization Naturalization Equalization

Definition of Socialism-
Socialism refers to a broad array of doctrines or political movements that envisage a socio-economic system in which property and the distribution of wealth are subject to social control. This control may be direct—exercised through popular collectives such as workers' councils—or indirect—exercised on behalf of the people by the state. As an economic system, socialism is often characterized by state or community ownership of the means of production.
Goals:
1: the nationalization of all major industry, all natural resources are to be put under the direct control of the government, so that equal distribution can be assured.
2: the nationalization of all major corporations. Every major business corporation will be put under the control of the government, allowing small business to flourish. All public services will be put under the direct control of the government.
3: An economy that focuses on naturalization, or an eco-friendly economy.
4: All wealth in the country will be divided among the people of the nation; not according to social class, or race, but equally.
The ultimate goal of this party is to have an eco-friendly economy, a government controlled entirely by the people, and a place where small business is not threatened by large corporations. A nation for the people, a place where no one goes hungry or is left homeless; a structured society where everything is divided among everyone and all get an even share of everything.
President of the Socialist Committee
________________________________________


You might want to double-check your definitions.

Definition of Socialism-
Socialism refers to a broad array of doctrines or political movements that envisage a socio-economic system in which property and the distribution of wealth are subject to social control. This control may be direct—exercised through popular collectives such as workers' councils—or indirect—exercised on behalf of the people by the state. As an economic system, socialism is often characterized by state or community ownership of the means of production.

Fair enough. I think you are putting too much emphasis on the state ownership side with your proposals, which I will go into detail on.

1: the nationalization of all major industry, all natural resources are to be put under the direct control of the government, so that equal distribution can be assured.

This is a patently bad idea. Here's why. The state does not, cannot, and will not ever represent the needs of the people. Even the reddest, most democratic state still is fundamentally unaccountable to the people's wants and needs. So your nationalization of major industries does nothing to help the common worker. What it permits is the rise of a new class-Nomenklatura, to use the Russian term- of professonal intellectuals who will manage these state owned industries. History has shown us that technocrats are scarecely better masters then capitalists.

2: the nationalization of all major corporations. Every major business corporation will be put under the control of the government, allowing small business to flourish. All public services will be put under the direct control of the government.

Same problem as above. No one is being liberated. All we have is a massive centralization of power, which is anthetical to democracy and real socialism.

3: An economy that focuses on naturalization, or an eco-friendly economy.

Fair enough. So basically, you mean a sustainable growth or a zero growth economy?

4: All wealth in the country will be divided among the people of the nation; not according to social class, or race, but equally.

Equally? Do you mean identically, according to merit, according to effort, or according to need?

The ultimate goal of this party is to have an eco-friendly economy, a government controlled entirely by the people, and a place where small business is not threatened by large corporations. A nation for the people, a place where no one goes hungry or is left homeless; a structured society where everything is divided among everyone and all get an even share of everything.

I dont' see how you are making government any more controlled by the people. Nationalization only increases the power of the state, and will not change the fact that the average worker is still a wage slave.
While the "Red Republic" is a noble concept in theory, in practice it leaves far too power in the hands of the State.

Capitalism is the way to go. It's a sucky system, but it's better than everything else.


Note: The following is mostly true of communism.


If you got a "C" in some teacher's class, would you work as hard as you could, or not at all? Letfism= Bad Economies. Go figure. Unless of course you killed everyone unproductive.

I'm eagerly looking forward to waiting in line for three hours to buy wilted cabbages and plastic shoes, or maybe even nothing at all. At least I can make some money selling smuggled goods on thee black market.