NationStates Jolt Archive

In my home Province of Alberta Canada, It has been that when a political party in power falls out of favour, they never again assume control of the government.

While this is of no certainy in the future, Both the Liberal party and the NDP have suffered this fate, and now play the role of opposition parties.

Our current party, the Conservatives, have ruled for some time now, but have become old and tired, and it seems likely that they will sooner than later follow the same path as the Liberals and NDP.

We now have a fourth party rising, the Greens. They are a good blend of Conservative and Liberal thinking, and likely appeal to the greatest portion of the voting public.

In regards to Alberta, With the greens taking centre stage, that would niche out either(or both) of the cons and the libs. I dont see an Alberta with greens, cons, libs and NPD all being sustainable.

So, without resorting to wishful thinking, who do you think will vanish(if any)?

I hope I made this as bipartisan as possible!

Same thing with BC. Although the NDP has bounced back. But so did the Soc Creds before they finally died. But the Soc Creds were in power for a long time (3 decades IIRC), so it is not that shocking that they could bounce back after losing all their seats.

Same thing with BC. Although the NDP has bounced back. But so did the Soc Creds before they finally died. But the Soc Creds were in power for a long time (3 decades IIRC), so it is not that shocking that they could bounce back after losing all their seats.
Yes, but BC has had the same party come back to take power after having been defeated.

Whereas, Alberta's history looks like this:

1905-1921 - Liberals
1921-1935 - United Farmers
1935-1971 - Social Credit
1971-present - Progressive Conservatives

And not a single minority ever.

The Conservatives won't fall anytime soon. The Green party still has a lot of baggage an oil rich region like Alberta won't accept. And with parties cropping up to the right of the PCs (who really are a centrist party by Alberta's standards, at this point), there's really no telling what could happen.

In my home Province of Alberta Canada, It has been that when a political party in power falls out of favour, they never again assume control of the government.

While this is of no certainy in the future, Both the Liberal party and the NDP have suffered this fate, and now play the role of opposition parties.

Our current party, the Conservatives, have ruled for some time now, but have become old and tired, and it seems likely that they will sooner than later follow the same path as the Liberals and NDP.

We now have a fourth party rising, the Greens. They are a good blend of Conservative and Liberal thinking, and likely appeal to the greatest portion of the voting public.

In regards to Alberta, With the greens taking centre stage, that would niche out either(or both) of the cons and the libs. I dont see an Alberta with greens, cons, libs and NPD all being sustainable.

So, without resorting to wishful thinking, who do you think will vanish(if any)?

I hope I made this as bipartisan as possible!

when were the NDP ever in power in Alberta???? a bit optimistic with the Greens with only about 2-3% support in Alberta...

when were the NDP ever in power in Alberta???? a bit optimistic with the Greens with only about 2-3% support in Alberta...

The closest the NDP came was 30% of the vote in the mid 80s. Thats pretty good actually, considering its Alberta.

In their origins, they had links with the UFA, which was in power. Not unlike the reform party of Canada coming from the federal progressive conservatives.

As far as green goes, yes, they are pretty low in the standings, but if people were to flee the conservatives, thats where many would end up. Likewise, I doubt you would see many liberals ever voting conservative, so they would rather vote green too. I dont think the NDP would ever come to power in Alberta.

I've always voted Conservative, until the last election, at which point I voted SPA. I wasnt exactly pleased with Kleins slacking off on fiscal conservatism, so I voted stragetically. The federal conservative win took the wind out of that parties sails!

I thought that a reluctant leader like Ed Stelmach would be a good one, but he doesnt seem to have the assertiveness that a premier requires. The conservatives were already floundering under Klein, and I dont see him improving things.

I'm predicting one more Conservative government, quite possibly a minority, with heavy gains from Green, to the loss of the Libs/Cons. The NDs will pick up some liberal votes, and, depending on the results of any federal elections, the Alberta Conservatives may lose some more votes to the independance parties.

The closest the NDP came was 30% of the vote in the mid 80s. Thats pretty good actually, considering its Alberta.

In their origins, they had links with the UFA, which was in power. Not unlike the reform party of Canada coming from the federal progressive conservatives.

As far as green goes, yes, they are pretty low in the standings, but if people were to flee the conservatives, thats where many would end up. Likewise, I doubt you would see many liberals ever voting conservative, so they would rather vote green too. I dont think the NDP would ever come to power in Alberta.

I've always voted Conservative, until the last election, at which point I voted SPA. I wasnt exactly pleased with Kleins slacking off on fiscal conservatism, so I voted stragetically. The federal conservative win took the wind out of that parties sails!

I thought that a reluctant leader like Ed Stelmach would be a good one, but he doesnt seem to have the assertiveness that a premier requires. The conservatives were already floundering under Klein, and I dont see him improving things.

I'm predicting one more Conservative government, quite possibly a minority, with heavy gains from Green, to the loss of the Libs/Cons. The NDs will pick up some liberal votes, and, depending on the results of any federal elections, the Alberta Conservatives may lose some more votes to the independance parties.
What about Alliance? They already have a seat in the Legislative Assembly, I believe.

Yeah, but you're all forgetting one thing - nobody gives a rat's ass about Alberta. Hell, the rest of the country wouldn't bat a lash if Albertans elected Yosemite Sam to a majority Provincial government. We'd just laugh, as usual, at the ongoing follies of the turnip-truck crowd. And then we'd forget about you again.

Yeah, but you're all forgetting one thing - nobody gives a rat's ass about Alberta. Hell, the rest of the country wouldn't bat a lash if Albertans elected Yosemite Sam to a majority Provincial government. We'd just laugh, as usual, at the ongoing follies of the turnip-truck crowd. And then we'd forget about you again.
Oh, be nice!

Oh, be nice!

Must I, mother?

Yeah, but you're all forgetting one thing - nobody gives a rat's ass about Alberta. Hell, the rest of the country wouldn't bat a lash if Albertans elected Yosemite Sam to a majority Provincial government. We'd just laugh, as usual, at the ongoing follies of the turnip-truck crowd. And then we'd forget about you again.

Hell, I'd vote for Yosemite Sam just for the antics. And to see if someone would push him off a high building to hear him ramble 'razzle-frazzin-frakkin'-razzle- frakkin'-gramble-frikiin'-....

I'd say Alberta should try to get Yosemite to run.

Yeah, but you're all forgetting one thing - nobody gives a rat's ass about Alberta. Hell, the rest of the country wouldn't bat a lash if Albertans elected Yosemite Sam to a majority Provincial government. We'd just laugh, as usual, at the ongoing follies of the turnip-truck crowd. And then we'd forget about you again.

Yes, the ridiculously wealthy and successful turnip-truck crowd, who live in quaint little hamlets like Edmonton and Calgary, and who control much of one of Canada's most valuable resources. Why would anyone bother paying attention to them?

So, without resorting to wishful thinking, who do you think will vanish(if any)?
I hope I made this as bipartisan as possible!

Boy do I wish both the Democratic and Republican parties in the US would vanish. :D

Yes, the ridiculously wealthy and successful turnip-truck crowd, who live in quaint little hamlets like Edmonton and Calgary, and who control much of one of Canada's most valuable resources. Why would anyone bother paying attention to them?

Indeed - the nouveau riche are always so clatteringly loud in their urgent (and earnest) need to have their entitled voices heard over everybody else - how galling that no-one cares to listen to their whining.

Must I, mother?
Yes, there's no need to flame.

Indeed - the nouveau riche are always...
What, are you part of ye olde Canadian aristocracy?

What, are you part of ye olde Canadian aristocracy?

Not really, no. But I've been exposed to this sort of thinking for decades, now - and I feel strongly that it should, in all circumstances go largely unrewarded - with a few choice barbs thrown in for good measure.

Not really, no. But I've been exposed to this sort of thinking for decades, now - and I feel strongly that it should, in all circumstances go largely unrewarded - with a few choice barbs thrown in for good measure.

Because if everyone pays attention to us, they will no longer pay attention to you. The center has an equally large and truly undeserved sense of entitlement. Like an older sibling that hasnt actually achieved anything, they still think they are so grand. HAH!

In all seriousness, that is exactly, exactly how the west sees the east. A perfect mirror image of how you see us.

I foresee the Wild Moose Party making a strong showing in the next elections. But they're going to have their share of competition from the Mounty Party.

Because if everyone pays attention to us, they will no longer pay attention to you. The center has an equally large and truly undeserved sense of entitlement. Like an older sibling that hasnt actually achieved anything, they still think they are so grand. HAH!

In all seriousness, that is exactly, exactly how the west sees the east. A perfect mirror image of how you see us.
Wonderful. The old West-East war again. :rolleyes:

Honestly, I just hope the Albertan population don't put the Tories in as the government again in the next election. As for your province, it's your problem, and you can deal with it. Though, I must say, if Alberta, the land of the hicks, voted the Green Party in as your provincial government, the Canadian political spectrum might just implode.

In my home Province of Alberta Canada, It has been that when a political party in power falls out of favour, they never again assume control of the government.

While this is of no certainy in the future, Both the Liberal party and the NDP have suffered this fate, and now play the role of opposition parties.

Our current party, the Conservatives, have ruled for some time now, but have become old and tired, and it seems likely that they will sooner than later follow the same path as the Liberals and NDP.

We now have a fourth party rising, the Greens. They are a good blend of Conservative and Liberal thinking, and likely appeal to the greatest portion of the voting public.

In regards to Alberta, With the greens taking centre stage, that would niche out either(or both) of the cons and the libs. I dont see an Alberta with greens, cons, libs and NPD all being sustainable.

So, without resorting to wishful thinking, who do you think will vanish(if any)?

I hope I made this as bipartisan as possible!
Um I have a question. Just how the hell is the Green Party conservative?

Um I have a question. Just how the hell is the Green Party conservative?
The Green Party, Canadian one anyway, is conservative fiscally but progressive socially. They believe in environmental progress but a balanced budget at the same time.

Um I have a question. Just how the hell is the Green Party conservative?

As an answer, I'll reverse that. Why dont liberals just vote NDP? Because they are more conservative than the NDP. Likewise, the Greens are less liberal than the liberals in some ways.

I'm a pretty hard core conservative voter, but some of the green policy appealed greatly to me. They espose sustainability, which I like. Dont get hung up on labels.


2/3 of Albertans are urban. They live in either Edmonton or Calgary. Probably another 1/6 live in the other big towns. A lot of them vote conservative, but only because its strategic. If it was not, they would vote differently.

The Green Party, Canadian one anyway, is conservative fiscally but progressive socially. They believe in environmental progress but a balanced budget at the same time.

I am quite proud that my home state of Australia produced the first Green party movement.

I am quite proud that my home state of Australia produced the first Green party movement.
Orly? Which state is that?

It would be sweet irony if the greens took Alberta. Those athabascan oil sand desperately need something to go mongoose on'em. I mean, using one non-renewable fossil fuel to pump another non-renewable fossil fuel out of sand? Jesus H. Christ that is fucked up.

Orly? Which state is that?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worldwide_green_parties#History
This one.:)

I foresee the Wild Moose Party making a strong showing in the next elections. But they're going to have their share of competition from the Mounty Party.

I'm voting United Hockey Players.

It would be sweet irony if the greens took Alberta. Those athabascan oil sand desperately need something to go mongoose on'em. I mean, using one non-renewable fossil fuel to pump another non-renewable fossil fuel out of sand? Jesus H. Christ that is fucked up.

alberta voting green...you'll be waiting all time for that, greed rules in alberta...anyone or anything that appears to come between an albertan and their oil soaked paycheck will be ignored...they all want to be green here as long as it costs them nothing...

The separatists have a better shot than the Green Party, I think.

I proudly vote separatist.

I proudly vote separatist.

Tell ya what. Why don't we let you and the litterally dozens of people who plan on voting for the separatists have PEI. We'll give the PEI residents some of your oil money for compensation, and then you can charge us any rediculous price for your potatos that ya like. Really. Be as libertarian as you like.

western(99%of which are albertans)separatists are just the current fashionable lunatic fringe group, don't take them seriously...

Tell ya what. Why don't we let you and the litterally dozens of people who plan on voting for the separatists have PEI. We'll give the PEI residents some of your oil money for compensation, and then you can charge us any rediculous price for your potatos that ya like. Really. Be as libertarian as you like.
Hell, why don't we give them to the Quebecois? I'm sure they would like a couple more seperatists. :rolleyes:

Hell, why don't we give them to the Quebecois? I'm sure they would like a couple more seperatists. :rolleyes:

At least Quebec Separatism makes some nominal sense. It's about protection of French Culture (which would in my mind is easier to do with attachment to federal dollars). Western Separatism? The right to drill/dig/dance for oil without intervention? I dunno...

At least Quebec Separatism makes some nominal sense. It's about protection of French Culture (which would in my mind is easier to do with attachment to federal dollars). Western Separatism? The right to drill/dig/dance for oil without intervention? I dunno...

correct!...capitalism without restraint, freedom from taxation and oppression from "big brother", no sentimental causes like nationalism...I've a few friends in this separatist camp, the american dollar has more attraction for them than their Canadian identity...

correct!...capitalism without restraint, freedom from taxation and oppression from "big brother", no sentimental causes like nationalism...I've a few friends in this separatist camp, the american dollar has more attraction for them than their Canadian identity...

You know, I can respect the capitalist, laissez faire mentality. But it's not like Alberta is a piece of their culture or something. They can always move to the US.

They're not taking a piece of my Rupert's Land!

You know, I can respect the capitalist, laissez faire mentality. But it's not like Alberta is a piece of their culture or something. They can always move to the US.

They're not taking a piece of my Rupert's Land!

I agree completely and I'm not about to agree to joining the USA either...coincidently I told one friend who wanted to join the USA to go there if he wanted that lifestyle, I was happy with our lifestyle as it was...he opened an office in Phoenix...

I agree completely and I'm not about to agree to joining the USA either...coincidently I told one friend who wanted to join the USA to go there if he wanted that lifestyle, I was happy with our lifestyle as it was...he opened an office in Phoenix...

:p

Hey, I like the US. Good for your friend. That's the advantage of separate nations, eh?

Most of the people I've known who've made for the US to get the big bucks came back before too long. They grew to loathe it pretty damn quick.

At least Quebec Separatism makes some nominal sense. It's about protection of French Culture (which would in my mind is easier to do with attachment to federal dollars). Western Separatism? The right to drill/dig/dance for oil without intervention? I dunno...
Except Quebec seperatism is dead and Western Alienation is just getting started, especially with the Alberta hicks pumping oil like there's no tomorrow. Though I must say, my favourite party is the BC Millionaire's Party. Platform: sell BC to the Americans and every BC citizen gets a million bucks. :p

Except Quebec seperatism is dead and Western Alienation is just getting started, especially with the Alberta hicks pumping oil like there's no tomorrow. Though I must say, my favourite party is the BC Millionaire's Party. Platform: sell BC to the Americans and every BC citizen gets a million bucks. :p

Western Alienation has been around for 80 yrs, separatists for 30, they're no stronger now than they were then...

Western Alienation has been around for 80 yrs, separatists for 30, they're no stronger now than they were then...
And I hope they don't grow any stronger. What's with people and trying to divide Canada into thousands of pieces? :rolleyes:

And I hope they don't grow any stronger. What's with people and trying to divide Canada into thousands of pieces? :rolleyes:

Easier to chew.

Easier to chew.

So whose digestive tract will gobble it all up?

So whose digestive tract will gobble it all up?
Americans. Have you ever seen its appetite? It's gigantic!

So whose digestive tract will gobble it all up?

Well, apparently Stephen Harper eats babies... or so the stories go.

So maybe a little from column A, a little from column B, then.

I'm nearly moved enough to doctor some maps to illustrate the ravenous beasts...

Well, apparently Stephen Harper eats babies... or so the stories go.
And apparently Harper is the Incredible Green Hulk according to an Albertan conservative magazine. :rolleyes:

And apparently Harper is the Incredible Green Hulk according to an Albertan conservative magazine. :rolleyes:

He's incredible, all right. He has no credibility at all outside of Red Deer.

So maybe a little from column A, a little from column B, then.

I'm nearly moved enough to doctor some maps to illustrate the ravenous beasts...

Don't tell me you're a political cartoonist! (aspiring, or otherwise.)

In that case, add a tint of mad cow to the Alberta section of our Meat Pie.

Don't tell me you're a political cartoonist! (aspiring, or otherwise.)

In that case, add a tint of mad cow the Alberta section of our Meat Pie.

You mean you never perused Zilam's comic book thread? I'm so disappointed, Mike.

And apparently Harper is the Incredible Green Hulk according to an Albertan conservative magazine. :rolleyes:

Cool!! Harper Smash!!

(Please tell me there are pictures. I need something to remove the image of him in a leather cowboy outfit bbq-ing.)

You mean you never perused Zilam's comic book thread? I'm so disappointed, Mike.

Where the Hell was I for that?

That's what I get for being in lurking mode for a while.

He's incredible, all right. He has no credibility at all outside of Red Deer.
Did you forget that Red Deer is the centre of the world? Bad Dobbs!
Cool!! Harper Smash!!

(Please tell me there are pictures. I need something to remove the image of him in a leather cowboy outfit bbq-ing.)
I saw the image on CBC Newsworld. I tried to find it online, but couldn't. It was Harper's face on the Hulk's body, all green and ugly. Then, the text read "The Green Monster"

That's what I get for being in lurking mode for a while.

Lemme get a linky for you...

here. (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=12181633&highlight=comic+book#post12181633)

You gotta go for a few pages, and they're not all grade 'a' comics, but hey - I'm still ostensibly adding stuff... I'm just takin' my time about it.

Edit: an' if you persevere, there's a bonus poster right near the end of the thread...

Lemme get a linky for you...

here. (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=12181633&highlight=comic+book#post12181633)

You gotta go for a few pages, and they're not all grade 'a' comics, but hey - I'm still ostensibly adding stuff... I'm just takin' my time about it.

Edit: an' if you persevere, there's a bonus poster right near the end of the thread...

Okay, those are some sweet Canuckistani Uniforms!

Fantastic Work Sir Dobbs!

I saw the image on CBC Newsworld. I tried to find it online, but couldn't. It was Harper's face on the Hulk's body, all green and ugly. Then, the text read "The Green Monster"

I really wish I could have seen it. Alas, I came upon this image again;

http://monarda.fallenwords.net/archives/images/harper2.jpg

I really wish I could have seen it. Alas, I came upon this image again;

http://monarda.fallenwords.net/archives/images/harper2.jpg

Kin-ky.

I really wish I could have seen it. Alas, I came upon this image again;

http://monarda.fallenwords.net/archives/images/harper2.jpg
...

I do NOT need to see an old fat man in a cowboy costume.

My poor eyes. :(


PS. Is it just me or has the left column gone grey (other than the poster's name)?

PS. Is it just me or has the left column gone grey (other than the poster's name)?

It's still lily-white on my screen.

It's still lily-white on my screen.
Oh no, Jolt changed its interface again?

Maybe they're giving us a hint to put let emphasis on post count. :p

...

I do NOT need to see an old fat man in a cowboy costume.

My poor eyes. :(


PS. Is it just me or has the left column gone grey (other than the poster's name)?

Uhm, I think it's just you.

On the left column going grey that is. I didn't want to see an old fat man in a cowboy costume either. Just figured I'd share the wealth.

Just figured I'd share the wealth.

Well, just you be mindful. Saltpeter? Who'd ever need it, what with pics like that floating through the ether.

Well, just you be mindful. Saltpeter? Who'd ever need it, what with pics like that floating through the ether.

I'm surprised you haven't all seen it before. It was back when he was trying to get rid of his 'stiff and reserved' image. I guess the green camo thing he had going on in Afghanistan and Mexico was the revised attempt.

At least Quebec Separatism makes some nominal sense. It's about protection of French Culture (which would in my mind is easier to do with attachment to federal dollars). Western Separatism? The right to drill/dig/dance for oil without intervention? I dunno...
And pot. That's our oil.

I think Alberta will be the first province to see the NDP fold up and reform. With whom, I do not know, but I am thinking Libs and Greens if they feel that they are not gaining anything.

I think you're dreaming if you think the PCs are on the out.

By the way, I saw the ex-King Ralph walking through HUB Mall yesterday morning. He's got a lot of nerve walking around here.

You know, I can respect the capitalist, laissez faire mentality. But it's not like Alberta is a piece of their culture or something. They can always move to the US.
Why can't capitalism be part of our culture?

I identify my ethnicity as "Albertan" on the census.
They're not taking a piece of my Rupert's Land!
It's a confederation, smart guy. Each province controls its own destiny. They cooperate voluntarily. As such, we're allowed to take our oil and go home.

I think Alberta will be the first province to see the NDP fold up and reform. With whom, I do not know, but I am thinking Libs and Greens if they feel that they are not gaining anything.
The Alberta Liberals have been talking about at least changing their name.

As for fat politicians dressed as cowboys (I refuse to call Harper an Albertan politician), Ralph Klein looked much better in a leather vest. Probably because he knew he was fat, so he wore larger sizes.

Why can't capitalism be part of our culture?

I identify my ethnicity as "Albertan" on the census.

It's a confederation, smart guy. Each province controls its own destiny. They cooperate voluntarily. As such, we're allowed to take our oil and go home.

Of course capitalism is a part of our culture. Are you not currently practicing it? (I feel I'm going to regret that...) Do you really need to split Alberta off the Canadian Map to do business?

As for your right to take your oil and go home, modern supreme court judges may agree with you. I however, don't. It's one thing to debate the issue of Quebec leaving, since they were a conquered people who also happened to be an existing colony at the time of Confederation who willinly signed on-board. It's another thing to let go of a province carved from a territory purchased from the Hudson's Bay company by the Canadian government.

Hell, If I had to ressurect the good Sir John A MacDonald to raise a new North-West Mounted Police to knock some sense into your skulls, so be it. It's better than having an Alberta-sized hole in the middle of my country.

Decentralization? Cool. Complete Independance? Not Cool.

Of course capitalism is a part of our culture. Are you not currently practicing it? (I feel I'm going to regret that...) Do you really need to split Alberta off the Canadian Map to do business?
As long as the Canadian majority (Ontario and Quebec) feel the repeated need to interfere in our affairs, yes.
As for your right to take your oil and go home, modern supreme court judges may agree with you. I however, don't. It's one thing to debate the issue of Quebec leaving, since they were a conquered people who also happened to be an existing colony at the time of Confederation who willinly signed on-board. It's another thing to let go of a province carved from a territory purchased from the Hudson's Bay company by the Canadian government.
Quebec was a conquered people 400 years ago. Now they're just a bunch of whiny gits funded by equalisation.

Plus, the constitution explicitly grants any power one province has to each of the others.
It's better than having an Alberta-sized hole in the middle of my country.
I'm hoping we can take Saskatchewan with us. They have even more mineral wealth than we do.
Decentralization? Cool. Complete Independance? Not Cool.
Decentralisation would be an acceptable compromise only if the Canadian majority (Ontario and Quebec) did not have the power to undo it. And I don't see them agreeing to that.

And that's the problem. No matter what good the west manages to do for itself or Canada, Canada invariably screws it up again. Separation ends that cycle.

As long as the Canadian majority (Ontario and Quebec) feel the repeated need to interfere in our affairs, yes.

All right, for sake of argument, how is 'the Canadian Majority' interfering in your affairs exactly?

Quebec was a conquered people 400 years ago. Now they're just a bunch of whiny gits funded by equalisation.

Plus, the constitution explicitly grants any power one province has to each of the others.

Re: Quebec; Yeah, I don't see how them leaving could possibly be to their advantage. It's probably easier to maintain their 'culture' in the Canadian framework. Independance would mean they would have to face some difficult decisions...

Re: The Constitution; Yes, although I don't think the people drafting it had separtists in mind at the time.

I'm hoping we can take Saskatchewan with us. They have even more mineral wealth than we do.

Gah! Thankfully, there's only maybe a couple of schoolbusloads of you seperatist types...

Decentralisation would be an acceptable compromise only if the Canadian majority (Ontario and Quebec) did not have the power to undo it. And I don't see them agreeing to that.

And that's the problem. No matter what good the west manages to do for itself or Canada, Canada invariably screws it up again. Separation ends that cycle.

Again, enlighten me unto what exactly are we doing that would warrant you wanting to split up the country?

Re: The Constitution; Yes, although I don't think the people drafting it had separtists in mind at the time.
But that's not really the point. The intent of the lawmakers shouldn't ever matter (because it isn't knowable).
All right, for sake of argument, how is 'the Canadian Majority' interfering in your affairs exactly?

Again, enlighten me unto what exactly are we doing that would warrant you wanting to split up the country?
It's mostly the taxation. The annual cost to Alberta to be in Canada (the difference between federal taxation and federal spending) is now over $11 billion each year. That's bigger than our oil revenue.

But also, there's your tendecny to attack us for doing things that other provinces already do (like allowing private hospitals, which already existed in Quebec and BC, but the feds felt the need to penalise Alberta by withholding health and social transfers until we shut them down).

Not to mention the history of large-scale interference. The National Energy Program was a system of price controls for oil which stole $160 billion from Alberta during the early 1980s.

And now Dion's talking about doing something very similar. Just because we put ourselves in a position to benefit from high oil prices doesn't mean that we don't deserve the windfall. The Alberta government balanced its budget (the second province to do so - after Saskatchewan) when the price of oil was $12/bbl. That was hard. But now it's debt-free. Alberta has consistently been willing to go through hardship for long-term benefits.

And, we're the only province ever to issue its own currency. The feds didn't like that, either.

But that's not really the point. The intent of the lawmakers shouldn't ever matter (because it isn't knowable).

Isn't that the point of the Commonlaw system? What point in Jurisprudence, if the judges don't take the intent of the law into consideration?

It's mostly the taxation. The annual cost to Alberta to be in Canada (the difference between federal taxation and federal spending) is now over $11 billion each year. That's bigger than our oil revenue.

But also, there's your tendecny to attack us for doing things that other provinces already do (like allowing private hospitals, which already existed in Quebec and BC, but the feds felt the need to penalise Alberta by withholding health and social transfers until we shut them down).

Not to mention the history of large-scale interference. The National Energy Program was a system of price controls for oil which stole $160 billion from Alberta during the early 1980s.

And now Dion's talking about doing something very similar. Just because we put ourselves in a position to benefit from high oil prices doesn't mean that we don't deserve the windfall. The Alberta government balanced its budget (the second province to do so - after Saskatchewan) when the price of oil was $12/bbl. That was hard. But now it's debt-free. Alberta has consistently been willing to go through hardship for long-term benefits.

And, we're the only province ever to issue its own currency. The feds didn't like that, either.

On one hand, I know exactly where you're coming from. I respect Alberta's financial restraint and ability to eliminate it's debt. Like you, I'd sooner let the provinces deal with most issues directly. At the very least, make the federal/provincial responsiblities abundantly clear, and keep the feds from promising things which are the realm of the provinces.

On the other hand, griping about being a 'have' province doesn't really engender a whole lot of sympathy. I realize Dalton McGuinty's doing it, but I'm not proud of it. There are benefits to a degree of centralization, and the transfer-payment system. Besides, if you cut those transfer payments, wouldn't you end up with 90% of Newfoundland's population at your doorstep, instead of just 40%?

Besides, if you cut those transfer payments, wouldn't you end up with 90% of Newfoundland's population at your doorstep, instead of just 40%?
We have a sick labour shortage. I would love to cut their benefits if I thought that would make them move west.

According to Newfoundland Premier Danny Williams, Newfoundland workers working in Alberta send home to their families in Newfoundland $3 million/week.

We have a sick labour shortage. I would love to cut their benefits if I thought that would make them move west.

According to Newfoundland Premier Danny Williams, Newfoundland workers working in Alberta send home to their families in Newfoundland $3 million/week.

If you can find a reasonably affordable place to live, that's swell. However, I wouldn't be a big fan of working in one province, while I send my paycheck to my family that lives in another. And if the windfall suddenly runs dry, then what? You got a whole lotta angry newfies.

I still like to think of Canada as a nation, despite what Gilles Duceppe likes to think. It would be a rather sad nation if we run each province like an independant nation and have the citizens of one province as virtual slave labour for another.

If you can find a reasonably affordable place to live, that's swell. However, I wouldn't be a big fan of working in one province, while I send my paycheck to my family that lives in another. And if the windfall suddenly runs dry, then what? You got a whole lotta angry newfies.

I still like to think of Canada as a nation, despite what Gilles Duceppe likes to think. It would be a rather sad nation if we run each province like an independant nation and have the citizens of one province as virtual slave labour for another.
It only ended suddenly last time because Trudeau killed it.