NationStates Jolt Archive

So after the corruption scandal and winning the World Cup Italian football games have been suspended after a policeman was killed during a match in Sicily. This is the second death in a week.

There have been scenes of football related violence throughout the Italian season so far.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/6326513.stm

Italian league halted by violence

The Italian Football Federation (FIGC) has suspended all matches indefinitely after a policeman was killed at a Serie A match between Catania and Palermo.

Officer Filippo Raciti died as violence flared during the Sicilian derby.

The FIGC has called off all this weekend's professional and amateur games, and also cancelled Italy's friendly with Romania on Wednesday.

Commissioner Luca Pancalli said: "What we're witnessing has nothing to do with soccer, so Italian soccer is stopping."
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Sadly it seems that violence is not only found in Italy but also German, the Netherlands and France. For some reason it seems that violence in the UK has been either unreported or its not happening (that I find hard believe).

I love football. I hate this shit.

Sadly it seems that violence is not only found in Italy but also German, the Netherlands and France. For some reason it seems that violence in the UK has been either unreported or its not happening (that I find hard believe).

I love football. I hate this shit.
Football related violence in the UK only really happens in particularly heated rivalries (Man Utd - Liverpool, Arsenal - Spurs) or when it involves Leeds, Millwall or Cardiff.

Or when it's the national team.

If you think this is bad, take a look at the sort of shit that goes on in Argentina...

Football related violence in the UK only really happens in particularly heated rivalries (Man Utd - Liverpool, Arsenal - Spurs) or when it involves Leeds, Millwall or Cardiff.

Or when it's the national team.

If you think this is bad, take a look at the sort of shit that goes on in Argentina...

There is violence between rivals (you left off Chelski btw). Being a Leeds fan I am aware our club has problems...but not as many as we had in the 80's and early 90's. We have also been in the for front of the Kick Racism out of Football campaign. But we still have brain dead morons. (and as we have had supporters murdered in Turkey and Italy I do take this seriously)

There is a lot that goes on away from the grounds....and is not reported.

I know there is a heap of shit that goes on in Argentina. And it is up to them to clean up their sport in the same way it is ours here in Europe.

Just a point here. Would people prefer the sanitised, polite football we currently have in England (try Old Trafford if you don't believe) to that of Italy or Spain?

Granted, the violence is abhorrent, however the passion is manifestly evident, and the link between the fans and teams more evident.

Just a point here. Would people prefer the sanitised, polite football we currently have in England (try Old Trafford if you don't believe) to that of Italy or Spain?

Granted, the violence is abhorrent, however the passion is manifestly evident, and the link between the fans and teams more evident.

I'd be happy if every game was like the Chelski v Leeds FA Cup final...well...baring the result...

Footy has become wimpyfied.

Players falling over as if mortally stricken by an opponent half way down the pitch...buncha pussies.

I want blood dammit ... BLOOD!

I'd be happy if every game was like the Chelski v Leeds FA Cup final...well...baring the result...

Footy has become wimpyfied.

Players falling over as if mortally stricken by an opponent half way down the pitch...buncha pussies.

I want blood dammit ... BLOOD!

I'm not really a great fan of old style English "blood and thunder" football, but I do agree some passion would be a welcome change.

I'm not really a great fan of old style English "blood and thunder" football, but I do agree some passion would be a welcome change.

Its a physical game. I am not a fan of the leg breaker tackle that destroys a career...but I do not have a problem with hard tackling.

Its money...thats the problem.

Just a point here. Would people prefer the sanitised, polite football we currently have in England (try Old Trafford if you don't believe) to that of Italy or Spain?

Granted, the violence is abhorrent, however the passion is manifestly evident, and the link between the fans and teams more evident.

Go to Anfield if you want passion without the violence. The Liverpool fans are immensly passionate and get behind their team at every opportunity. Meanwhile even Manchester United players admit the Old Trafford crowd is passionless (e.g. Roy Keane).
Would you rather have a diluted atmosphere but no casulties or another death caused by crowd trouble?

Go to Anfield if you want passion without the violence. The Liverpool fans are immensly passionate and get behind their team at every opportunity. Meanwhile even Manchester United players admit the Old Trafford crowd is passionless (e.g. Roy Keane).
Would you rather have a diluted atmosphere but no casulties or another death caused by crowd trouble?

They didn't call Highbury the Library for nothing....

They didn't call Highbury the Library for nothing....

Thats Highbury lol....if you went to the lower leagues or to Anfield you would get a passionate crowd without the trouble that embarrasses Italy.

They didn't call Highbury the Library for nothing....
You're meant to be quiet in the presence of fine art...;)

You're meant to be quiet in the presence of fine art...;)

I refer you to Martin Keown ;)

I refer you to Martin Keown ;)
He paints like one of the Old Masters. Honest.

The bit about players going down as if they were mortally stricken (like MU's pretty-boy Renalodo ... "goes down as if he was hit by a round from a sniper rifle") is mostly unfair. Running and moving at Premiership speed it's easy to be knocked for a spill. There are too many dives, yes, but if the refs enforced the rules on tackles from behind then we'd all see more creative, attacking football that could make even the fans at Old Trafford passionate again.

The bit about players going down as if they were mortally stricken (like MU's pretty-boy Renalodo ... "goes down as if he was hit by a round from a sniper rifle") is mostly unfair. Running and moving at Premiership speed it's easy to be knocked for a spill. There are too many dives, yes, but if the refs enforced the rules on tackles from behind then we'd all see more creative, attacking football that could make even the fans at Old Trafford passionate again.
The problem here being that refs in England have too much sense, and don't send off players for a slightly dodgy tackle from behind even if they've won the ball. I like the way that English football is much faster and free-flowing than other European leagues. It's really noticeable when English teams are playing in European competition against non-English teams - the referees will penalise the English team for challenges that are fine in this country.

Thats Highbury lol....if you went to the lower leagues or to Anfield you would get a passionate crowd without the trouble that embarrasses Italy.

I think in some ways it might be down to stadium design. Anfield's a very old-style stadium, whereas the likes of Old Trafford etc don't retain noise as well and are a bit more divorced from the pitch. IMHO I think that when (and if) Liverpool move to a new stadium then the atmosphere decreases, take Southampton, the Dell was one of the loudest and most intimidating grounds around, now they're at a new St Mary's the noise levels have decreased a fair bit.

You have got to love how an article about football violence in Italy turns into a debate about England and the "english disease" as hooliganism was and probably is still called in Europe.

Fact is ladies and gentlemen European violence at a local level is insaine. Also internationals between the likes of Germand and the Netherlands always end in violence.

As regards Italian football it is worth pointing out how much the fans involve themselves in their teams. The ultra fans of Lazio are acutally trying to take over the club and have been known to attack players whom play badly after a game.

Italian football is rife with violence the scenes from the Champions league 2 years ago with the Milan Derby are another reminder of this.

The bit about players going down as if they were mortally stricken (like MU's pretty-boy Renalodo ... "goes down as if he was hit by a round from a sniper rifle") is mostly unfair. Running and moving at Premiership speed it's easy to be knocked for a spill. There are too many dives, yes, but if the refs enforced the rules on tackles from behind then we'd all see more creative, attacking football that could make even the fans at Old Trafford passionate again.

Um...it was diving I was referring to....as well as the falling over and rolling on the floor for a half mile.....the chasing the ref down or hounding the ref with a gaggle of players etc...

For me its quite easy. If a ref is getting harassed he cards the offending players. Of course that will never happen because the first ref to do so will end up in the lower leagues or never given a game to ref.

Its money. Thats what it boils down to. The amount of money is fucking the game. Look at how quickly players are willing to jump ship to another club paying more money...managers as well...

One thing I respect Manure for is that they stuck by Ferguson (*hack* spit)...who went on to become the greatest domestic manager in English if not European or global football. I also hold Ol' Vinegar Nuts to task for pressurising the ref. He is not the first but he does allow his players vehement disapproval of reffing decisions.

The problem here being that refs in England have too much sense, and don't send off players for a slightly dodgy tackle from behind even if they've won the ball. I like the way that English football is much faster and free-flowing than other European leagues. It's really noticeable when English teams are playing in European competition against non-English teams - the referees will penalise the English team for challenges that are fine in this country.

That is true if you compare to other countries. But I do think that we have gone a long way down the road of wimpification.

No tackles from behind...what a load of bollocks. If you get the ball you get penalised...bollocking bollocks that is!

*hrmph*

Go to Anfield if you want passion without the violence. The Liverpool fans are immensly passionate and get behind their team at every opportunity. Meanwhile even Manchester United players admit the Old Trafford crowd is passionless (e.g. Roy Keane).
Would you rather have a diluted atmosphere but no casulties or another death caused by crowd trouble?

I don't believe the two are mutually exclusive. The Police eject fans for chanting anything remotely amusing, the players aren't allowed to celebrate in the crowd, or with their shirt off, post-match interviews are singularaly banal, and any player such as Ronaldo or Pires who offends Englsih neanderthal masculinity is labelled a "wanker". And yet we have the best league in the world:rolleyes:

When will people realize its just a fucking football game...

I'm not a fan of soccer ,or football,I may be missing something but I've never understood what the motivation of the violence that I sometimes hear about surrounding soccer games is? How does it start? Why does it happen? Why aren't the clubs,leagues and cities where the games are held better prepared to handle it?

I'm not really a great fan of "old style English blood and thunder" football, but I do agree some passion would be a welcome change.Its a physical game. I am not a fan of the leg breaker tackle that destroys a career...but I do not have a problem with hard tackling.they are one.. cannot separate them.

if you have hard tackling.. legs will be broken. its just a matter of time.

I'm not a fan of soccer ,or football,I may be missing something but I've never understood what the motivation of the violence that I sometimes hear about surrounding soccer games is? How does it start? Why does it happen? Why aren't the clubs,leagues and cities where the games are held better prepared to handle it?

The affinity between European clubs and fans is something few Americans I have ever met fully comprehend. However, it may well be born out of the grounding most clubs have in local communities, and thus the loyalties they inspire.

I understand the loyalty to local teams and the passion people have for the game. I attend many sporting events and occasionally a couple of drunk assholes get i a fight, but thats as far as it goes. To put a finer point on it, I don't understand the severity or the scale of the fights that occur at soccer matches.

The bit about players going down as if they were mortally stricken (like MU's pretty-boy Renalodo ... "goes down as if he was hit by a round from a sniper rifle") is mostly unfair. Running and moving at Premiership speed it's easy to be knocked for a spill. There are too many dives, yes, but if the refs enforced the rules on tackles from behind then we'd all see more creative, attacking football that could make even the fans at Old Trafford passionate again.

How odd that you would create a nation called Groundhoggia and then only post over a year later on the day after Groundhog Day...

I understand the loyalty to local teams and the passion people have for the game. I attend many sporting events and occasionally a couple of drunk assholes get i a fight, but thats as far as it goes. To put a finer point on it, I don't understand the severity or the scale of the fights that occur at soccer matches.

I think that shows the loyalty the world has for soccer (football). I've been to plenty of american football games (mainly the NY Giants) and their is always the passionate people who love their team so much they would fight over it. Now take them and make them everyone, you have Europe on football(soccer)

Now let's strip them of their unfair and unjust World Cup win. They should have just invalidated the match and let Germany play Portugal.

Arthur C Clarke once likened sport to religion.

Just a thought...