NationStates Jolt Archive

I found this to be rather odd, especially about the idea that men can't say no. Your thoughts?

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/africa/02/01/guinea.marriage.ap/index.html

Oh hell yeah, that would have rocked!

Except that I can't eat some fish (much to the displeasure of my wife) so that might not have gone over too good. I don't see why women can't ask the guy they want to marry them, I really can't.

I found this to be rather odd, especially about the idea that men can't say no. Your thoughts?

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/africa/02/01/guinea.marriage.ap/index.html

I think it's interesting. It demonstrates that all societies are not patriarchal and that many societies do things quite differently from those we know well.

And the men can say no. It simply can disgrace them. Sort of like women in some cultures.

The ideal is that either one can propose, and either one can say no. That being said, I've heard of arrangements a lot worse than the one described in the OP. At least it's a better than a marriage completely arranged by the parents of the happy couple, or the groom essentially buying the bride from her family.

EDIT: Or as I recently learned is possible, winning a poker game when your opponent runs out of cash and bets his wife. That one had happy ending, though.

I would HATE to be a part of that society, mainly because if I say No, I disgrace my entire family. Jeez I don't want to be stuck with a woman I have no feelings for.

Interesting, but there's nothing wrong with that at all. Its a pity that Western values infiltrated their socities, though.

I'm extremely disturbed/strangely aroused by that practice.

Its a pity that Western values infiltrated their socities, though.

Most cultures learn too late why it's so important to shoot missionaries on sight.

*deliberately doesn't read topic*

Is this more of Soviestan's muslim dick swinging?

*deliberately doesn't read topic*

Is this more of Soviestan's muslim dick swinging?

I'm sure it will turn into that when he starts telling us all about how these women are not adhering to their Allah-given duties, but no. It's a description of a matrilineal tribal society in which women propose to men by offering them specially cooked seafood.

I'm sure it will turn into that when he starts telling us all about how these women are not adhering to their Allah-given duties, but no. It's a description of a matrilineal tribal society in which women propose to men by offering them specially cooked seafood.

Apparently laced with Ecstasy. I mean how else do you "instantly" fall in love with someone?

Apparently laced with Ecstasy. I mean how else do you "instantly" fall in love with someone?

Their culture looks at things differently. It could be that receiving the proposal was so flattering that he thought he fell in love with her, and that they were well-matched enough to truly fall in love over time.

Apparently laced with Ecstasy. I mean how else do you "instantly" fall in love with someone?

You guys have no romance in your souls!


Some enchanted evening,
You may see a stranger,
With a plate of Fish.

You guys have no romance in your souls!


Some enchanted evening,
You may see a stranger,
With a plate of Fish.
Salmon! Salmon! It's:
Salmon enchanted evening...

You guys have no romance in your souls!


Some enchanted evening,
You may see a stranger,
With a plate of Fish.Indeed. It's damn romantic.. Right up to the point you tell her you're vegan.

You guys have no romance in your souls!


Some enchanted evening,
You may see a stranger,
With a plate of Fish.

I just believe that "love" takes time, you don't just eat a plate of fish and then instantly fall in love, unless the fish was laced with a form of Ecstasy.

Salmon! Salmon! It's:
Salmon enchanted evening...

Once you have Flounder, never let her go...

Well it happens on an isolated island in africa so probably everyone looks the same (inbreeding) and there are no fattys (poverty).

Given that, I don't imagine there is much to choose from anyway, so the custom makes perfect sense. Otherwise I wouldn't expect people to stand for it.

I wonder if suicide is an honorable way out of this proposal system.

Well it happens on an isolated island in africa so probably everyone looks the same (inbreeding) and there are no fattys (poverty).

Given that, I don't imagine there is much to choose from anyway, so the custom makes perfect sense. Otherwise I wouldn't expect people to stand for it.

......Many places practiced arranged marriages; the couples still loved each other. And they stood for it for quite a few centuries. Free love as a concept hasn't been rooted everywhere since time began.

meh, personally i think a system where everybody can ask everybody might be better. but that one old guy seems to be happy. so it's probably not that bad.

Apparently laced with Ecstasy. I mean how else do you "instantly" fall in love with someone?

Nobody ever cooked really good food for you, did they?

My cooking earned me 4 proposals so far :D

Nobody ever cooked really good food for you, did they?

My cooking earned me 4 proposals so far :D

Well damn, for a man to "instantly" fall in love, that must've been one hell of a fish.

Well damn, for a man to "instantly" fall in love, that must've been one hell of a fish.

I believe a Hitch-hiker's Guide reference is obligatory here.

Well damn, for a man to "instantly" fall in love, that must've been one hell of a fish.

In my case, it tends to be pasta from heaven.

In my case, it tends to be pasta from heaven.

Hmmm, I may toy with chocolate, I've heard if you make chocolate right, it could give women orgasam.

While I hate the idea of being unable to say no I would love for a girl to propose to me[When I'm ready to get married...I'm too young right now]. I bet I'd cry like a little girl too.

While I hate the idea of being unable to say no I would love for a girl to propose to me[When I'm ready to get married...I'm too young right now]. I bet I'd cry like a little girl too.
Dito.
Although, if I really didn't want to get married, I would have to say no...

Interesting, but there's nothing wrong with that at all. Its a pity that Western values infiltrated their socities, though.

Nothing wrong with it? If the man says no he is disgraced. Sounds nearly as bad as gender relations here 40 years ago.

Nananghe eat some fish and like lightning he wanted only her ok

now what happens if the man can't have fish

now what happens if the man can't have fish

He is ritually castrated and banished from the tribe.

The ideal is that either one can propose, and either one can say no.

QFT

the article reflects back on our own culture as much as it sheds light on their difference.

but at least over here women can refuse :p

He is ritually castrated and banished from the tribe.

so its the case of eat the fish and die from it or what you said

so its the case of eat the fish and die from it or what you said

Think of it as a way of weeding out fish allergies from the gene pool.

Think of it as a way of weeding out fish allergies from the gene pool.

no a new one will just take its place

Women should be slaves and chattel to us glorious males! Anyone who doesn't agree is a commie fag! :rolleyes:

Women should be slaves and chattel to us glorious males! Anyone who doesn't agree is a commie fag! :rolleyes:

What?

What?

Sorry - I was momentarily possessed by a troll. I think it's a good idea, and would be helpful to both genders and eliminate a lot of confusion. It would take a lot of tact on the part of the man though if he wanted to refuse.

Sorry - I was momentarily possessed by a troll. I think it's a good idea, and would be helpful to both genders and eliminate a lot of confusion. It would take a lot of tact on the part of the man though if he wanted to refuse.

You think its a good idea? Hmmm, maybe you still have a bit of the troll in you.

We gotsta beat it outta ya!

You think its a good idea? Hmmm, maybe you still have a bit of the troll in you.

We gotsta beat it outta ya!

Do tell. Why do you feel it is not?

Do tell. Why do you feel it is not?

Er, because I read the article. The man is disgraced if he refuses.

Er, because I read the article. The man is disgraced if he refuses.

Again I apologize. I shall read the article and then come back.

Right. Read it. That sounds like weird place to live.
In defence of the ways of the islanders and my own opinion, I think that women do have a better innate understanding of who might make a good husband, and the old man testified to this by citing that divorces were far less common than with men choosing.
On the other hand, the disgracing of someone who refuses and the ease with which women were able to reject shows a bias in that society towards women and is incorrect in any society including our own - callousness is to be deplored.
An ideal situation is one where women and men are free to propose and reject or accept with freedom. Any customs which do not support this are backward and should be allowed to atrophy through lack of use.

I hope the fish is good, if nothing else.

I hope the fish is good, if nothing else.

It certainly sounds as though it is. One bite and you're hooked for life! Sounds like something else actually - I wonder what the secret ingredient is.

It certainly sounds as though it is. One bite and you're hooked for life! Sounds like something else actually - I wonder what the secret ingredient is.

Duh, love.

I had a scary thought - now that they have contact with the outside world, their women can swap recipes with ours! :eek:

Duh, love.

In one bite? Sounds more like a blend of cultural pressure, youthful hormones and the influence of expectation. Real love takes years of effort, and has many forms. Are you a girl by any chance?

In one bite? Sounds more like a blend of cultural pressure, youthful hormones and the influence of expectation. Real love takes years of effort, and has many forms. Are you a girl by any chance?:p He's a guy and he was making a joke.

I would HATE to be a part of that society, mainly because if I say No, I disgrace my entire family. Jeez I don't want to be stuck with a woman I have no feelings for.
Apparently laced with Ecstasy. I mean how else do you "instantly" fall in love with someone?
Well damn, for a man to "instantly" fall in love, that must've been one hell of a fish.
As Dempublicents already said, they just look at things differently than we do. This instant romance wouldn't work with someone from our culture who was raised with our concepts of love and falling into it.
What is described in the article is (or was, at least, before the influx of outside cultural views) simply the way things work in their society, period.
I'm not sure if it's possible for us to really understand it, usually the best we can do is pretty much accept that their world just functions that way and move on.
When they look at ours, they're probably asking themselves where the hell the love is supposed to come from when the girls don't fall in love first and "put that love into the men's hearts" and when this magical recipe of fish isn't involved. And the concept of "love at first sight" will them strike as equally ludicrous.

At one point in my anthropology classes we talked about a people (can't for the life of me remember where or what name) whose world is filled with witches - real people who have magical powers they can use for good and bad. When they wished you bad, they would curse you by jumping (flying) over your house at night.

...

So yeah, that sounded just... wacky. The really "wacky" part, however, is that the people living in that society actually saw the witches jump over the houses.

Everybody in that class was all "Whaa? But... there are no witches, and there's no way these people could actually be jumping over houses. How could they possibly say they're seeing them do it?!".
I'd bet a lot of money someone from that culture would be equally incredulous as to how we could possibly not see them.

The human mind is a powerful thing and it's shaped by the culture it's raised in to an extent we hardly ever realize because we rarely can step back from it far enough to see our own "jumping witches".

In one bite? Sounds more like a blend of cultural pressure, youthful hormones and the influence of expectation. Real love takes years of effort, and has many forms. Are you a girl by any chance?
You fail.
:p He's a guy and he was making a joke.

Thank you wytyg. I'm glad someone appreciates my humour.

I don't get why anybody is "proposing" to anybody else in this manner. If I were at a point in a relationship where marriage was a serious consideration, then it would be something my partner and I would have talked about at length. If we were going to get married, we'd talk about it together. It wouldn't be some weird case of one party "popping the question" at the other. It would be a mutual decision.

It's just like how medieval nobility would marry people they've never seen before... Cultural.

How can anyone with a brain cell think that treating men basically like slaves is a good thing? If this was about women having no right to refuse, there would be outrage and maybe even international condemnation.

I don't get why anybody is "proposing" to anybody else in this manner. If I were at a point in a relationship where marriage was a serious consideration, then it would be something my partner and I would have talked about at length. If we were going to get married, we'd talk about it together. It wouldn't be some weird case of one party "popping the question" at the other. It would be a mutual decision.

All this reasonableness is why you aren't the matriarch of society yet. ;)

My wife proposed to me, actually. I suppose saying no was an option, but it didn't occur to me at the time. :D

How can anyone with a brain cell think that treating men basically like slaves is a good thing?
Huh? What article were you reading?

How can anyone with a brain cell think that treating men basically like slaves is a good thing? If this was about women having no right to refuse, there would be outrage and maybe even international condemnation.

Funny, seeing how wife kidnapping still haven't been stamped out yet. At least in this case its more of a case of peer pressure, as opposed to fundamental human rights violation.

All this reasonableness is why you aren't the matriarch of society yet. ;)
Heh. :D

Funny, seeing how wife kidnapping still haven't been stamped out yet. At least in this case its more of a case of peer pressure, as opposed to fundamental human rights violation.
Yeah, from what I read, the reason the men aren't supposed to say "no" is because it would dishonor the woman's family. Forgive me for not being as outraged about that kind of social pressure as I am about, say, the practice of abducting women and selling them to "husbands" they've never even seen before so they can be raped and used as a domestic slave for the remainder of their life. Or the places where a woman cannot be considered eligible for marriage unless she has had her clitoris cut off and her vagina sewn closed.

I think it's a lousy idea to have gendered roles for courtship, because this stifles the normal differences in individual personalities. But I think it's ludicrous to pretend like this culture's practice of female proposals is some kind of "slavery" or horrific abuse of men. Get some perspective.

Yeah, from what I read, the reason the men aren't supposed to say "no" is because it would dishonor the woman's family. Forgive me for not being as outraged about that kind of social pressure as I am about, say, the practice of abducting women and selling them to "husbands" they've never even seen before so they can be raped and used as a domestic slave for the remainder of their life. Or the places where a woman cannot be considered eligible for marriage unless she has had her clitoris cut off and her vagina sewn closed.

I think it's a lousy idea to have gendered roles for courtship, because this stifles the normal differences in individual personalities. But I think it's ludicrous to pretend like this culture's practice of female proposals is some kind of "slavery" or horrific abuse of men. Get some perspective.

i still can't get over the places that do that think its right and ok to do it

Women should be slaves and chattel to us glorious males! Anyone who doesn't agree is a commie fag! :rolleyes:

This is trolling? No, this is some Grade-A sarcasm!

I had a scary thought - now that they have contact with the outside world, their women can swap recipes with ours! :eek:

Really? Sweeeeeeet!!

Yeah, from what I read, the reason the men aren't supposed to say "no" is because it would dishonor the woman's family. Forgive me for not being as outraged about that kind of social pressure as I am about, say, the practice of abducting women and selling them to "husbands" they've never even seen before so they can be raped and used as a domestic slave for the remainder of their life. Or the places where a woman cannot be considered eligible for marriage unless she has had her clitoris cut off and her vagina sewn closed.

I think it's a lousy idea to have gendered roles for courtship, because this stifles the normal differences in individual personalities. But I think it's ludicrous to pretend like this culture's practice of female proposals is some kind of "slavery" or horrific abuse of men. Get some perspective.

Why did you think it dishonoured the woman's family? The article says it is the man's.

Why did you think it dishonoured the woman's family? The article says it is the man's.
Whoops, I just noticed that myself. My bad.

So just swap the "woman's" for "man's," and the rest of the post stays the same. :D

I can see why that happened. I mean, everyone looks the same, behave the same, have the same things, work in the same jobs... No deal you, as a guy, dont need to chose your wife. They are/were all the same.

Now, things turn diferent in our society. People are so diferent its really a pain in the ass to choose.