NationStates Jolt Archive

Several years ago, I had an idea for a sentient species with a triple helix DNA structure and it's been floating around in the back of my mind ever since. Today, while surfing around, I came accross a reference to Species 8472 in the Star Trek unviverse that mentioned they had a triple helix DNA structutre, so I googled it up, and found a couple of medical articles that mentioned it in conjunction with gene therapy.

http://www.jci.org/cgi/content/full/112/4/487
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=307006

I must admit the articles are pretty dense and mostly above my knowledge, but it sounds like it's possible to make it but would have problems replicating...

So what's the feasability of a species evolving such a structure and what effects might it have?

No idea, but you may not want to mention Star Trek in your grant application. :p

hmmmmm

perhaps they would have 3 genders or 3 parents or something.

No idea, but you may not want to mention Star Trek in your grant application. :p

;) No problem, since it's for my con-worlding.

Several years ago, I had an idea for a sentient species with a triple helix DNA structure and it's been floating around in the back of my mind ever since. Today, while surfing around, I came accross a reference to Species 8472 in the Star Trek unviverse that mentioned they had a triple helix DNA structutre, so I googled it up, and found a couple of medical articles that mentioned it in conjunction with gene therapy.

http://www.jci.org/cgi/content/full/112/4/487
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=307006

I must admit the articles are pretty dense and mostly above my knowledge, but it sounds like it's possible to make it but would have problems replicating...

So what's the feasability of a species evolving such a structure and what effects might it have?

I'm too tired to look at this now. Make sure it's up tomorrow, and I'll see what I can see. =)

So what's the feasability of a species evolving such a structure and what effects might it have?

i don't really think it is possible that a creature on earth would evolve to form a triple helix DNA sequence. as far as i know, most of the enzymes regulating gene transcription are quite specific. and from a double to a triple helix is quite a large difference.
i don't think there would be a lot of difference with normal living beings. it just seems that you would have more data in a smaller space. the only possible difference , as mentioned above, is that they could have 3 genders and parents. and the triple helix was more stable or something, so there would probably be less chance for cancer and genetic defects (but also less species because there are less mutations?). possibly they could grow older because of the stability, but i don't know for sure. i don't know that much of DNA though, so i could be wrong.

but yeah, it's for a story or something, so it doesn't have to be that scientificaly correct.

nature only produces gratuitous complexity when it is an artifact of chainging conditions under which evolution takes place.

so i really have no idea what sequence of combinations of conditions on a world would cause life there to have a triple hilex genetic structure. but i can easily conceive, diversity being the nature of reality, that on some world somewhere it very well may.

and if conditions transpired on such a world so as to result in life forms there having that tripple helix genetic structure, it seems highly probably that most, or at least many, of the diverse life forms of that world, whould all share in it.

it IS a big universe out there, and in trueth, knowing only this one world as most of us on here do, what is typical and common among worlds, and what is less so, is not at this point objectively verifyably determinable.

known limitation on this earth have been pointed out. for the most part these are not directly pertinant to speculations as to limits or lack of them as to what is probable elsewhere.

=^^=
.../\...

The articles say that triple helical DNA can exist in certain physiological or pathological, and in vitro states. DNA Replication would become rather untenable if we still use the conventional way of DNA replication (but hey, it's fiction, right? You can invent whatever system you want!).

Well anyway, I do think that a triple-stranded DNA would increase the number of DNA strands that could potentially code for genes (therefore, more traits! well maybe you can say that is you switch on this part of strand one, you will acquire trait A, if the same part on another strand you get part B, etc. This is notwithstanding alternative RNA splicing.) However, to make this work we must break away from the present biochemical notions on gene replication and expression.

I don't think you need three parents though, 'cause one parent contributes a set of chromosomes, not individual strands. [So, if you want to have three parents, it would be 3n, 3 being the haploid number. In humans, 3n would be 69]. In a sense, a parent would contribute an entire three-stranded chromosone. It is not three parents contributing one strand each to make a single chromosome. [But then, this is fiction, and since you are in for a major overhaul of biochemical systems, you can make entirely new concepts!]

What I'm thinking of at the moment is an artificial circumstances due to an uplifting.

I'm too tired to look at this now. Make sure it's up tomorrow, and I'll see what I can see. =)

Excellent. I'd hoped I'd you'd be around.

The articles say that triple helical DNA can exist in certain physiological or pathological, and in vitro states. DNA Replication would become rather untenable if we still use the conventional way of DNA replication (but hey, it's fiction, right? You can invent whatever system you want!).

So I was more or less right that it's possible but would have difficulty replicating?

Well anyway, I do think that a triple-stranded DNA would increase the number of DNA strands that could potentially code for genes (therefore, more traits! well maybe you can say that is you switch on this part of strand one, you will acquire trait A, if the same part on another strand you get part B, etc. This is notwithstanding alternative RNA splicing.) However, to make this work we must break away from the present biochemical notions on gene replication and expression.

Any suggestions for an alternative?

I don't think you need three parents though, 'cause one parent contributes a set of chromosomes, not individual strands. [So, if you want to have three parents, it would be 3n, 3 being the haploid number. In humans, 3n would be 69]. In a sense, a parent would contribute an entire three-stranded chromosone. It is not three parents contributing one strand each to make a single chromosome. [But then, this is fiction, and since you are in for a major overhaul of biochemical systems, you can make entirely new concepts!]

Fiction yes, but the key is it's science fiction. I have a few ideas that bend the science, but any suggestions that keep it withing the realm of the possible are welcome.

I'm too tired to look at this now. Make sure it's up tomorrow, and I'll see what I can see. =)

Bump for you...