NationStates Jolt Archive

So a couple of weekends ago I got up at some gawd-arful hour on Sunday morning to attend a deeply spiritual service... namely a university swim meet. My school doesn't even have a team, but it's nestled up against a larger university that does, and if I knew nothing else I knew that there'd be a pool full of fit university guys (oh, and girls... I guess) in speedos. So this is what I hauled my butt out of bed for on my day off, and I called up some friends who came down to the pool too to ogle. And it occurred to me that if the 1 in 10 stat is even remotely true then at least a few of those fine young athletes were on my team. So I made a design to get put on a t-shirt for the next time I get to go watch a swim meet, says "Mens' Swim Team Groupie," and my boyfriend says it's "too much," and that the guys on the team might be offended or something.

As I see it, if I signed up for a swim team, I'd have to be pretty darned thick if I didn't realise that it would mean spending hours at a time in front of crowds in a tiny bit of aquadynamic fabric, and that there were bound to be spectators in that crowd who were there to see my form-- honed as it would likely be from countless hours of swimming-- in said bit of fabric as much (if not moreso) than to admire the athleticism of it all. So, if you don't like being checked out in a speedo, you should have joined the winter triathelon team and had a parka as your team uniform. As for the 'overtness' of being a guy in the stands with a t-shirt that makes it plain that you'd enjoy hooking up with one of the guys on the team; well sauce for the goose... I doubt that the exact same t-shirt on any girl in the stands would draw the same degree of criticism, if any. So I don't voluntarily censor myself for being homo and as overt about my attractions as any hetero. (Bit of advice, 'out' guys who find yourselves the object of the interest of 'closeted' guys... think twice, it can be a real brainfuck if you go ahead and give it a try anyway.) Incidentally, said t-shirt isn't meant to indicate that I'm looking to cheat on my partern... hell, if the right guy hit on me, my partner would say "as long as he knows we're a package deal."

Anyway, if I have a point at all it's this: who wants a t-shirt? :) And who thinks that the whole idea is a big shameless disgrace and that faggotry is horrible and taboo and we should keep our heads and our voices down? Frankly, if you're one of the latter I couldn't care less about your opinion, I expect the most playful thing in your wardrobe looks like a bedsheet with some eye-holes cut in it and a pair of flame-retardant gloves. But what I'm really getting at is... queer swim team boys: how many of you are there out there, and if you saw an alright-lookin' guy in the stands wearing a t-shirt that said "Mens' Swim Team Groupie" would you be likely to feel A) shy; B) angry; C) flattered; D) like trying to line up Palm Pilots from across the pool and IR sending your cell number and the hotel where your team is staying for the weekend?

In conclusion, it's late and I'm giggling and a little angry, as usual. And if my closeted boyfriend ever comes to his senses and leaves me-- because lord knows, I know I bring my own bubbling cauldron and broomstick to the relationship-- I'm never spending another 3 1/2 years with another closet-case ever again.

I've never understood why some guys feel offended when they find out that a gay guy likes him. Shouldn't that be taken as a compliment, even if he's not gay himself? :confused:

It's not 'wrong' or 'too far' because it's gay, but because it's just kinda too far. If I, as a straight guy, showed up with a shirt that said 'Women's Swim Team Groupie' I'd be creepy. Because it's creepy.

It's one thing to tacitly acknowledge that yeah, there are probably people out there checking out 'your package,' it's an entirely different thing to not only know for a fact that there is someone out there checking out the package, but it's that guy over there who is doing all the giggling.

Again, it's not because it's gay, but because it's tacky. It'd be as tacky as me wearing a shirt that says, "I'm staring at your breasts." It might be true, but I don't necessarily have to advertise.

I've never understood why some guys feel offended when they find out that a gay guy likes him. Shouldn't that be taken as a compliment, even if he's not gay himself? :confused:

I take it you haven't heard of the dreaded 'gay gaze?' Some str8 boys feel threatened by gay boys' attraction towards them because they feel that if they're being sized up like a piece of meat then it must be feminising them or immasculating them or somesuch nonsense, because the only attraction they themselves have ever felt was towards women, so they assume that the 'look-ee' is always being placed in a female context, and their male egos can't handle it. It's yet more proof of how homophobia is inextricably connected to sexism and misogyny; hatred for women/femininity (or un-masculinity) translates into hatred for anything and anyone that doesn't conform to a straight-male-dominant perspective. Gay guys, in failing to dominate women-- or even worse, in allowing themselves to be 'feminised' and dominated by another man-- undermine the entire pedastal of masculinity and threaten the sense of straight-male priviledge. Which is why any reasonably self-aware and socially observant queer person *has* to appreciate feminism to some extent... because homophobia will never go away as long as there's this backwards caveman notion that "woman-fucking man rules, must be obeyed; woman-fucking man smash everyone else for their strange juju."

Anyway, yeah. The guys you're talking about, who can appreciate that they are attractive regardless of who they're attracting (whether they reciprocate or not) are the ones who're secure in themselves and don't feel threatened by those of us who aren't "women-fucking men." Gotta love those guys, they're way more fun to hang out with. Some of them will lift up their shirts if you ask them to, because they don't feel threatened :D

of course they should be prepaired for it. at the same time, the self esteem of the 'oglers' requires they exercise a modicum of self restraint, at least in the conspicuousness of their doing so.

what a crazy world we live in that either of these things should be other then obvious.

=^^=
.../\...

It's one thing to look at another based on physical attraction be you straight, gay, bisexual, asexual, etc, etc. It's another to do it and advertise the fact. That's more stalker-ish.

It's not 'wrong' or 'too far' because it's gay, but because it's just kinda too far. If I, as a straight guy, showed up with a shirt that said 'Women's Swim Team Groupie' I'd be creepy. Because it's creepy.

It's one thing to tacitly acknowledge that yeah, there are probably people out there checking out 'your package,' it's an entirely different thing to not only know for a fact that there is someone out there checking out the package, but it's that guy over there who is doing all the giggling.

Again, it's not because it's gay, but because it's tacky. It'd be as tacky as me wearing a shirt that says, "I'm staring at your breasts." It might be true, but I don't necessarily have to advertise.

Bah-- political correctness. If you're looking, and she *knows* you're looking, then pretending it isn't true at all is just insincere. It's just more politically correct b.s., and who isn't aware by now of how horribly, absurdly wrong that can go when it takes on a life of its own? That's not to say that you've gotta rush right out and get an "I'm staring at your boobs" t-shirt, but I think "Mens' Swim Team Groupie" is a bit more passive than "I'm staring at your boobs." It says that I'm there, and a 'fan,' and maybe that I'm looking but that if they're looking for groupies (as some athletes do, let's be honest) they'll find a friend in me :) But I'm not chasing them around the pool with a butterfly net or throwing paper airplanes with my number at specific swimmers. That, to me, would be 'too much.' But if a girl could get away with 'advertising' that she likes the boys, so can I. Would you really consider that same t-shirt on a girl 'creepy?' I see em *all* over the place, some are more subtle, some are way more overt, but it's sanctioned for girls to be 'flirty.' So why should it be taboo for guys to be?

It's one thing to look at another based on physical attraction be you straight, gay, bisexual, asexual, etc, etc. It's another to do it and advertise the fact. That's more stalker-ish.
Shouldn't a stalker by definition fade into the background?

I've never understood why some guys feel offended when they find out that a gay guy likes him. Shouldn't that be taken as a compliment, even if he's not gay himself? :confused:

Well, I get guys chatting me up sometimes, and while it is flattering and I do take it as a compliment, i'll be honest and say it does get irritating after a while only getting attention from men.

It's not 'wrong' or 'too far' because it's gay, but because it's just kinda too far. If I, as a straight guy, showed up with a shirt that said 'Women's Swim Team Groupie' I'd be creepy. Because it's creepy.

It's one thing to tacitly acknowledge that yeah, there are probably people out there checking out 'your package,' it's an entirely different thing to not only know for a fact that there is someone out there checking out the package, but it's that guy over there who is doing all the giggling.

Again, it's not because it's gay, but because it's tacky. It'd be as tacky as me wearing a shirt that says, "I'm staring at your breasts." It might be true, but I don't necessarily have to advertise.

Aye.

Well, I get guys chatting me up sometimes, and while it is flattering and I do take it as a compliment, i'll be honest and say it does get irritating after a while only getting attention from men.

Hey, if the only ones hitting on you are other guys, don't blame the guys. Take it up with all the girls who are ignoring you :)

"Naughty" in pretty pink script across a girl's boobs is different how?That's slutty and/or too desperate. It shows no class at all.

<--Female, and no, I wouldn't wear a "naughty" shirt. The pants with similar slogans are even worse...

Hey, if the only ones hitting on you are other guys, don't blame the guys. Take it up with all the girls who are ignoring you :)

Haha....I didn't say I blamed anyone in the matter (apart from maybe myself) :p

Shouldn't a stalker by definition fade into the background?

The kind that calls you up and tells you what you wore, ate, and did that day.

It's not 'wrong' or 'too far' because it's gay, but because it's just kinda too far. If I, as a straight guy, showed up with a shirt that said 'Women's Swim Team Groupie' I'd be creepy. Because it's creepy.

It's one thing to tacitly acknowledge that yeah, there are probably people out there checking out 'your package,' it's an entirely different thing to not only know for a fact that there is someone out there checking out the package, but it's that guy over there who is doing all the giggling.

Again, it's not because it's gay, but because it's tacky. It'd be as tacky as me wearing a shirt that says, "I'm staring at your breasts." It might be true, but I don't necessarily have to advertise.

I agree. As a friend om mine used to say, "It's ok to be desperate, but it's not ok to act/look desperate." He should be a little more subtle and tactful.

Years ago, when I worked for the smiley faced beast, I wore a small pink triangle lapel pin on my shirt collar. It let the other gay guys know I was one of them without coming across as a sex fiend to everyone else. Perhaps the OP could wear something that makes it known he is gay (such as a t-shirt with a gay friendly slogan or emblem), but doesn't scream "I'm here to molest all the young men."

I'm never spending another 3 1/2 years with another closet-case ever again.

Define "closet case." Is he truly in the closet (no one knows he's gay), or is he just not as out going as you are. Both can cause problems, but one can be dealt with while to other is the kiss of death for any meaningful long term relationship.

I agree. As a friend om mine used to say, "It's ok to be desperate, but it's not ok to act/look desperate." He should be a little more subtle and tactful.

Years ago, when I worked for the smiley faced beast, I wore a small pink triangle lapel pin on my shirt collar. It let the other gay guys know I was one of them without coming across as a sex fiend to everyone else. Perhaps the OP could wear something that makes it known he is gay (such as a t-shirt with a gay friendly slogan or emblem), but doesn't scream "I'm here to molest all the young men."

Make no mistake, I'm rarely without a rainbow pin, or my dogtags, or whatever. But a lil' tiny pin 1) is as good as nothing at all from across the pool, and 2) means nothing to anyone who doesn't know what the rainbow flag means. The Groupie t-shirt says 'hi' to the closeted ones who wouldn't know a pride-symbol if you tattood it on their forearm, and to the bi-curious ones who might not notice a pride pin. As for what 'looks desperate' and what doesn't... well, that's just appearances, and whether or not you care about them. I know I'm not, and if any of em thought the t-shirt meant I was offering some easy trick they'd find out in pretty short order that flirty =/= desperate in my books.

Sexual harassmentSexual harassment is unwelcome behaviour of a sexual nature, and even just one isolated act is enough to amount to it. It could take the form of sexual innuendo or lewd comments about your appearance or sex life, whether these are written or spoken. It could be a physical act, for example, deliberately brushing up against you or trying to caress you. Or, it could be more general, where for example, the environment of the workplace creates a hostile or humiliating atmosphere for you. This could be the result of sexually explicit material displayed in the workplace, the downloading of internet porn by other employees, or other behaviour that creates an uncomfortable environment.

One type of sexual harasserThe Great Gallant - This mostly verbal harassment involves excessive compliments and personal comments that focus on appearance and gender, and are out of place or embarrassing to the recipient. Such comments are sometimes accompanied by leering looks. The "catcalls" of a street harasser are one example of this.

You behaviour could easily be construed as sexual harassment.

Make no mistake, I'm rarely without a rainbow pin, or my dogtags, or whatever. But a lil' tiny pin 1) is as good as nothing at all from across the pool, and 2) means nothing to anyone who doesn't know what the rainbow flag means. The Groupie t-shirt says 'hi' to the closeted ones who wouldn't know a pride-symbol if you tattood it on their forearm, and to the bi-curious ones who might not notice a pride pin. As for what 'looks desperate' and what doesn't... well, that's just appearances, and whether or not you care about them. I know I'm not, and if any of em thought the t-shirt meant I was offering some easy trick they'd find out in pretty short order that flirty =/= desperate in my books.

I live in rural Texas. And even ten years ago here everyone (even old women) knew what a pink triangle and rainbow flag meant. If someone doesn't know what it means in this day and age, they probably aren't too bright. And it doesn't have to be a small pin. That was just an example of what could work in one situation. In your case, a big pink triangle on a white or black t-shirt can be seen from quite a distance. Probably more eye catching from a distance than a group of words on a t-shirt.

But if the groupie shirt is your thing, go for it. You're well within your rights. It's all a matter of what you are looking for and whose attention you're trying to get. Just remember, tacky and obvious displays only attract tacky and obvious guys. If you want to attract a classier kind of man, you'll need to be more subtle. ;)

Define "closet case." Is he truly in the closet (no one knows he's gay), or is he just not as out going as you are. Both can cause problems, but one can be dealt with while to other is the kiss of death for any meaningful long term relationship.

Well put it this way. I came out in my first year of university to anyone who was paying attention. Didn't change overnight and become a screeching, 24/7 lisping drama queen whose every 3rd word was "gay" this or "gay" that, but I kicked the door off the closet, gave it the finger, and never looked back. Pride pin or dogtags are ever-present, I don't just let homophobic language go when I hear it, and I try to lead my tribe by being visible and speaking up without apology or self-censorship. The bf, on the other hand, went to bible school instead of university (but now he's in university with me as an adult student, we're 27 and 33). He served his conservative evangelical church for years until he met me and we started hanging out, and some trifling uppity queen e-mailed his pastor to brag that "we'd gotten him." So since then he's been out to our mutual gay friends, and he's told a few people from his 'other life' why he isn't as involved as he used to be. But he isn't out to his family, he's sketchy about who sees us together in public if I have anything rainbow showing, he even gives me flak sometimes for being 'too out' even when he isn't around because he expects people to see me, then see him with me at some point in the future and have the whole 'guilt by association' thing. So, it's not like he tries to keep me tied up in the basement, but if I'd known 3 1/2 yrs ago that I'd ever feel as cramped as I've felt sometimes, I don't know how readily I'd have given up my free-wheeling hedonism for the relationship.

So it's not like I'm not used to hearing the old "be more subtle, blend in, keep your head down, don't be so obvious" refrain now and then.

Sexual harassment

One type of sexual harasser

You behaviour could easily be construed as sexual harassment.

Speaking of political correctness gone *mad.* Now some vindictive fuck can scream 'sexual harassment' just because you happen to be breathing heavily within earshot of them. Doesn't matter that you were just out running, or having an asthma attack, or whatever. Sexual harassment has become such a farce, hijacked from a legitimate grievance that some people had against abuses of positions of authority into instead being a step towards trying to regulate *every* aspect of *everyone's* behaviour, right down to the most basic fundamentals, to placate some Victorian holdovers and insecure prudes who don't like the the idea of anyone, anywhere, ever having a sexual thought. I agree that there's such a thing as predatory behaviour, and that sexual advances where there is a power disparity like in a workplace are generally inappropriate, but human beings are sexual, and trying to exclude people's sexuality entirely from their public lives is neurotic, even a sign of a social hysteria bordering on mass mental illness. I'm just waiting for the day that the huge majority of people who've been bullied and intimidated into going along with the whole regime come to their senses and demand some moderation and sense in the place of fanaticism.

Yes, you shouldnt advertise it so much. What I really hate is people that "try too much" to get atention, like women who scream too much, guys who are always doing something stupid to get atention or people who advertise their sexuality like everyone else wanted to know about it.

If you´re interested in one of the swimming guys, I bet there are ways for you to know which are interested back or not. Dunno about the "gay radar", but I guess you must know who is gay and who isnt without the need of a flag or something like that.

Well put it this way. I came out in my first year of university to anyone who was paying attention. Didn't change overnight and become a screeching, 24/7 lisping drama queen whose every 3rd word was "gay" this or "gay" that, but I kicked the door off the closet, gave it the finger, and never looked back. Pride pin or dogtags are ever-present, I don't just let homophobic language go when I hear it, and I try to lead my tribe by being visible and speaking up without apology or self-censorship. The bf, on the other hand, went to bible school instead of university (but now he's in university with me as an adult student, we're 27 and 33). He served his conservative evangelical church for years until he met me and we started hanging out, and some trifling uppity queen e-mailed his pastor to brag that "we'd gotten him." So since then he's been out to our mutual gay friends, and he's told a few people from his 'other life' why he isn't as involved as he used to be. But he isn't out to his family, he's sketchy about who sees us together in public if I have anything rainbow showing, he even gives me flak sometimes for being 'too out' even when he isn't around because he expects people to see me, then see him with me at some point in the future and have the whole 'guilt by association' thing. So, it's not like he tries to keep me tied up in the basement, but if I'd known 3 1/2 yrs ago that I'd ever feel as cramped as I've felt sometimes, I don't know how readily I'd have given up my free-wheeling hedonism for the relationship.

So it's not like I'm not used to hearing the old "be more subtle, blend in, keep your head down, don't be so obvious" refrain now and then.

Well, I can sort of understand where he is coming from. It is hard to change a lifetime of conditioning and some things may well never change. But if he is making progress (even slowly), there is hope that things will get better. But if he has stagnated and refuses to even try to change a little, it may be time to seek couples therapy or reconsider your relationship. But either way, he will probably never be as open as you want him to be. You can't change him any more than he can change you.

My boyfriend will likely never be as open as I am. But I'm ok with that. In our case it is partly to do with generational differences (I'm 37, he's 67). He isn't comfortable coming out to his farmer friends/neighbors (though he does realize they'll probably figure it out at some point). But fortunately, when we're in town, we hold hands, openly discuss the advantages of various lubes in the pharmacy, and generally act as any other couple would.

It's all about compromise. You just have to decide what you are and aren't willing to live with for the one you love.

Speaking of political correctness gone *mad.* Now some vindictive fuck can scream 'sexual harassment' just because you happen to be breathing heavily within earshot of them. Doesn't matter that you were just out running, or having an asthma attack, or whatever. Sexual harassment has become such a farce, hijacked from a legitimate grievance that some people had against abuses of positions of authority into instead being a step towards trying to regulate *every* aspect of *everyone's* behaviour, right down to the most basic fundamentals, to placate some Victorian holdovers and insecure prudes who don't like the the idea of anyone, anywhere, ever having a sexual thought. I agree that there's such a thing as predatory behaviour, and that sexual advances where there is a power disparity like in a workplace are generally inappropriate, but human beings are sexual, and trying to exclude people's sexuality entirely from their public lives is neurotic, even a sign of a social hysteria bordering on mass mental illness. I'm just waiting for the day that the huge majority of people who've been bullied and intimidated into going along with the whole regime come to their senses and demand some moderation and sense in the place of fanaticism.All I meant to say was that there are laws out there that you need to be careful.

However, the swimmers are there to swim, not to be oggled at. If they wanted to be oggled at then they'd be doing something else. You seem less interested by the quality of their swimming, and more interested in the male sswimmers sexual attractiveness.

This seems to fit the bill of sexual harassment pretty well. Imagine a similar situation. A person is working at their job when a co-worker begins flirting with them. The person asks them to stop, but they continue. Should the person wear full body clothing covering their face and hands to prevent any possible sexual attraction? No.

So, by all means go wear the t-shirt. But if any of the swimmers asks you take it off because they find it offensive or embaressing then should take it off without resistance.

It's not 'wrong' or 'too far' because it's gay, but because it's just kinda too far. If I, as a straight guy, showed up with a shirt that said 'Women's Swim Team Groupie' I'd be creepy. Because it's creepy.

It's one thing to tacitly acknowledge that yeah, there are probably people out there checking out 'your package,' it's an entirely different thing to not only know for a fact that there is someone out there checking out the package, but it's that guy over there who is doing all the giggling.

Again, it's not because it's gay, but because it's tacky. It'd be as tacky as me wearing a shirt that says, "I'm staring at your breasts." It might be true, but I don't necessarily have to advertise.

Yeah. I agree with you. Nothing wrong with being gay. Nothing wrong with being straight.

ogling = tacky

So, by all means go wear the t-shirt. But if any of the swimmers asks you take it off because they find it offensive or embaressing then should take it off without resistance.

I get the impression that if one of the swimmers were to ask him to take off his t-shirt there would not be an awful lot of resistance.............

:D :D

Bah-- political correctness. If you're looking, and she *knows* you're looking, then pretending it isn't true at all is just insincere. It's just more politically correct b.s., and who isn't aware by now of how horribly, absurdly wrong that can go when it takes on a life of its own? That's not to say that you've gotta rush right out and get an "I'm staring at your boobs" t-shirt, but I think "Mens' Swim Team Groupie" is a bit more passive than "I'm staring at your boobs." It says that I'm there, and a 'fan,' and maybe that I'm looking but that if they're looking for groupies (as some athletes do, let's be honest) they'll find a friend in me :) But I'm not chasing them around the pool with a butterfly net or throwing paper airplanes with my number at specific swimmers. That, to me, would be 'too much.' But if a girl could get away with 'advertising' that she likes the boys, so can I. Would you really consider that same t-shirt on a girl 'creepy?' I see em *all* over the place, some are more subtle, some are way more overt, but it's sanctioned for girls to be 'flirty.' So why should it be taboo for guys to be?
Its not "PC" its called tact ...

As the poster you quoted said it seems like creepy behavior regardless of the sexes involved.

So a couple of weekends ago I got up at some gawd-arful hour on Sunday morning to attend a deeply spiritual service... namely a university swim meet. My school doesn't even have a team, but it's nestled up against a larger university that does, and if I knew nothing else I knew that there'd be a pool full of fit university guys (oh, and girls... I guess) in speedos. So this is what I hauled my butt out of bed for on my day off, and I called up some friends who came down to the pool too to ogle. And it occurred to me that if the 1 in 10 stat is even remotely true then at least a few of those fine young athletes were on my team. So I made a design to get put on a t-shirt for the next time I get to go watch a swim meet, says "Mens' Swim Team Groupie," and my boyfriend says it's "too much," and that the guys on the team might be offended or something.

As I see it, if I signed up for a swim team, I'd have to be pretty darned thick if I didn't realise that it would mean spending hours at a time in front of crowds in a tiny bit of aquadynamic fabric, and that there were bound to be spectators in that crowd who were there to see my form-- honed as it would likely be from countless hours of swimming-- in said bit of fabric as much (if not moreso) than to admire the athleticism of it all. So, if you don't like being checked out in a speedo, you should have joined the winter triathelon team and had a parka as your team uniform. As for the 'overtness' of being a guy in the stands with a t-shirt that makes it plain that you'd enjoy hooking up with one of the guys on the team; well sauce for the goose... I doubt that the exact same t-shirt on any girl in the stands would draw the same degree of criticism, if any. So I don't voluntarily censor myself for being homo and as overt about my attractions as any hetero. (Bit of advice, 'out' guys who find yourselves the object of the interest of 'closeted' guys... think twice, it can be a real brainfuck if you go ahead and give it a try anyway.) Incidentally, said t-shirt isn't meant to indicate that I'm looking to cheat on my partern... hell, if the right guy hit on me, my partner would say "as long as he knows we're a package deal."

Anyway, if I have a point at all it's this: who wants a t-shirt? :) And who thinks that the whole idea is a big shameless disgrace and that faggotry is horrible and taboo and we should keep our heads and our voices down? Frankly, if you're one of the latter I couldn't care less about your opinion, I expect the most playful thing in your wardrobe looks like a bedsheet with some eye-holes cut in it and a pair of flame-retardant gloves. But what I'm really getting at is... queer swim team boys: how many of you are there out there, and if you saw an alright-lookin' guy in the stands wearing a t-shirt that said "Mens' Swim Team Groupie" would you be likely to feel A) shy; B) angry; C) flattered; D) like trying to line up Palm Pilots from across the pool and IR sending your cell number and the hotel where your team is staying for the weekend?

In conclusion, it's late and I'm giggling and a little angry, as usual. And if my closeted boyfriend ever comes to his senses and leaves me-- because lord knows, I know I bring my own bubbling cauldron and broomstick to the relationship-- I'm never spending another 3 1/2 years with another closet-case ever again.

This will probably shock you, but some people join the swim team to... swim. Not because they want to be oggled. I personally wouldn't be offended, but I would certainly take the side of any guy (or girl for that matter) who was.

Why do almost all gay men seem to want to twist things to suit their fantasies? Seriously dudes, get a life, if someone is straight and doesn't like you looking at them, fucking deal with it instead of acting like a fucking prick.

EDIT: And no, I don't have a problem with gay people. I have a problem with people who act like pricks.

This will probably shock you, but some people join the swim team to... swim. Not because they want to be oggled. I personally wouldn't be offended, but I would certainly take the side of any guy (or girl for that matter) who was.

Why do almost all gay men seem to want to twist things to suit their fantasies? Seriously dudes, get a life, if someone is straight and doesn't like you looking at them, fucking deal with it instead of acting like a fucking prick.

I know plenty of strait girls that dont like being oggled at and when they state it to a guy he turns into a prick as well ... with my experience it does not appear to be a "gay" thing at all ... more of a "guy" thing as sad as that is

I know plenty of strait girls that dont like being oggled at and when they state it to a guy he turns into a prick as well ... with my experience it does not appear to be a "gay" thing at all ... more of a "guy" thing as sad as that is

As I wasn't only being specific to this situation, then it's definitely a 'gay thing'. For example, I don't see many straight girls going around trying to convince gay men that they're "secrectly straight" cus they wanna shag them. You know why? Cus it's bollocks and it pisses them off. Just like a gay man telling a straight guy (or suggesting this) that he is "secretly gay" is bollocks and pisses straight men off.

So... how hot are the guys on the swim team? :)

As I wasn't only being specific to this situation, then it's definitely a 'gay thing'. For example, I don't see many straight girls going around trying to convince gay men that they're "secrectly straight" cus they wanna shag them. You know why? Cus it's bollocks and it pisses them off. Just like a gay man telling a straight guy (or suggesting this) that he is "secretly gay" is bollocks and pisses straight men off.

So your argument is that people do annoying things in order to get a reaction? then I agree people do that all the time.

so you are getting up early on sundays to ogle men on the swimteam of the next college over and you wonder if its OK to be more obvious.

NO.

its inappropriate to be obvious when ogling people who are not there to be ogled. this isnt the beach, its a swim meet. they need to have their heads in the game. they dont need to be noticing you.

Hey, have fun doing whatever it is you want; I like to think of myself as an enlightened gay man, and I'm certainly not in the closet, but I sort of agree with the idea that it is a little tacky to go advertising. It's tacky when girls do it - and while I agree that it's more 'accepted' for girls, it's still a little classless. But by all means, go ogle the team if that's your thing. Sending up the flare like that is fine; just not something I would do. I don't think they should have to 'be prepared' for it, but it also shouldn't surprise the guys on the team. You don't want to make the shy guy uncomfortable, do you? Especially because he's really cute...lol

I think the t-shirt would be a bit tacky. Not quite as tacky as a wolf whistle, but still tacky.

:( Man, I wish I could wolf whistle. *looks ashamed*

:( Man, I wish I could wolf whistle. *looks ashamed*
At least your dad didn't spend 10 years trying to teach you how to whistle exhaling, only to realise that you will only be able to whistle inhaling.

:( Man, I wish I could wolf whistle. *looks ashamed*

I wish I could too. Oh well, I have more useful talents, or so I'm told.

First of all: I've been on my highschool's swimteam for two reasons - I had already opted for swimming at my German school and thus felt up for the challenge and I was simply too bad to play basketball. (I don't know about other schools, but our sports rotated in the seasons and during the winter it was either BB or the pool.)
Then: If there was a time when I wouldn't mind being looked at in a Speedo it was that very year - I've never been in a better physical shape than back then and incidentally got to meet my going-to-be girlfriend between the dressing room and the pool. In Speedos. So there's got to be something to it, I guess. ;) (Yes, they were checking us out!)

When I was on the swim team my very last concern was being looked at. I really didn't mind that at all. Hell, if it had made me any faster I'd have shown up naked. :D

As for the T-Shirt - That's funny and shows some great humor. I agree that it would be a little weird for a guy to wear a shirt saying "Women's swim team groupie" because I somehow consider that a given as a straight guy. (Well, I guess it depends on the women on the team, too!)
But it's funny to imagine the reactions when as a guy you state to be a "Men's swim team groupie". Because it puzzles the "reader" for a second. Sort of like: Wait a minute, you're a guy, and you're... oh. Oh! :p
Absolutely no harm done, though. Quite the contrary - it would only make one think about their own view of the world, what one would expect, or how one might have a little prejudice despite better knowledge and resolution.

I've been approached and complimented by gay guys and while it was a little awkward since unexpected, I took it as the compliment it was meant to be (hey, if they thought I'm nice/handsome/goodlooking who am I to disagree?) but nonetheless kindly declined their offer. I'm simply not gay and into girls. :)

But hey, if I were too insecure to handle being approached by a gay guy that I wouldn't want to date - how in the world should I be able to talk to girls that I would want to date?

I wish I could too. Oh well, I have more useful talents, or so I'm told.

Lol...so do I...:cool:

So I made a design to get put on a t-shirt for the next time I get to go watch a swim meet, says "Mens' Swim Team Groupie," and my boyfriend says it's "too much," and that the guys on the team might be offended or something.

I say go for it. Swimming is one of the gay national sports anyway, so it's not like it's out of place.

so you are getting up early on sundays to ogle men on the swimteam of the next college over and you wonder if its OK to be more obvious.

NO.

its inappropriate to be obvious when ogling people who are not there to be ogled. this isnt the beach, its a swim meet. they need to have their heads in the game. they dont need to be noticing you.

A good point. It's one thing to be ogled, it's another thing to be wolf-whistling and attempting to draw the source of your ogling's attention to you. Especially if that person is involved in an endeavour that doesn't involve ogling. :p

Especially if that person is involved in an endeavour that doesn't involve ogling. :p

I guess by that you're excluding strippers and models? I suppose, yeah, it's probably ok to go ahead and ogle your heart out in those cases.:D

I guess by that you're excluding strippers and models? I suppose, yeah, it's probably ok to go ahead and ogle your heart out in those cases.:D

They are oglees. Theiir job description includes: Must be oglable at all times.

:)

They are oglees. Theiir job description includes: Must be oglable at all times.

:)

I've known many a stripper who's gone from hot to train wreck in about 6 months flat.

And it's always a tragedy when that happens. There really needs to be a stripper-relief foundation or something...and now I've managed to end up way, way off topic. :headbang:
Someone bring me back!! lol

I've known many a stripper who's gone from hot to train wreck in about 6 months flat.

youve known many a stripper.....

youve known many a stripper.....

Actually I have, though not in the sexual sense obviously.

I've never understood why some guys feel offended when they find out that a gay guy likes him. Shouldn't that be taken as a compliment, even if he's not gay himself? :confused:

Aye. I take the attention of gay gents as a compliment, not an insult.

Actually I have, though not in the sexual sense obviously.

lol...'known' in the Biblical sense, as in 'Cain 'knew' his wife'

I was on the swim team for years (I'm female, by the way), and got used to being stared at by spectators. Not a big deal, really, as long as it wasn't distracting me from my races. Not sure about the tshirt thing, though. If it was someone I knew who was wearing a shirt that said "women's swim team groupie" I'd probably think it was silly and have a good laugh with them about it. If it was someone I didn't know, I'd probably think it was a little weird, but still be flattered.

I don't think theres anything wrong with wearing that t-shirt. Just be prepared for the reaction towards it... heh.

Eh. If I were on a swim team I'd probably a) be concentrating more on actually swimming than on reading the shirt slogans of other people and b) not wearing my spectacles, and probably wearing swim goggles as well, so I'd be unable to see them anyway.

Of course, it strikes me as a rather pointless thing to do, but then I don't really watch porn either so I guess I'm not in that mindset. I prefer "doing" to "watching" in almost everything, except getting injured or dying.

I get the impression that if one of the swimmers were to ask him to take off his t-shirt there would not be an awful lot of resistance.............

:D :DHehe... made me laugh... unfortunately I still have hicups on an unrelated note.

Age plays a factor here too I think... if he is the 33 year old, oogling over a bunch of 19 years while wearing this t-shirt, well that then croses the line of what is decent and humerous.

I think it's a humerous idea, though there would definitely be some backlash.

Maybe make it a bit less obvious and more open as a joke. Like put "Male Swim Team Group(ie)" (you know, ie = in exemplar). That way your message is still there but a little more light hearted and not as easy to take offense to.

Then again, I'm a girl. I'm used to guys wearing shirts that suggest they're ogling me.

I get the impression that if one of the swimmers were to ask him to take off his t-shirt there would not be an awful lot of resistance.............

:D :D

{giggles} indeed!

So... how hot are the guys on the swim team? :)

Well, I have pictures, but apparently that makes me a awful person or somethin, so I'll keep em to myself. Allllll to myself.

"Lord, please find it in your grace to give me strength... that I might whup this wayward mothafucka's ass."

First of all: I've been on my highschool's swimteam for two reasons - I had already opted for swimming at my German school and thus felt up for the challenge and I was simply too bad to play basketball. (I don't know about other schools, but our sports rotated in the seasons and during the winter it was either BB or the pool.)
Then: If there was a time when I wouldn't mind being looked at in a Speedo it was that very year - I've never been in a better physical shape than back then and incidentally got to meet my going-to-be girlfriend between the dressing room and the pool. In Speedos. So there's got to be something to it, I guess. ;) (Yes, they were checking us out!)

When I was on the swim team my very last concern was being looked at. I really didn't mind that at all. Hell, if it had made me any faster I'd have shown up naked. :D

As for the T-Shirt - That's funny and shows some great humor. I agree that it would be a little weird for a guy to wear a shirt saying "Women's swim team groupie" because I somehow consider that a given as a straight guy. (Well, I guess it depends on the women on the team, too!)
But it's funny to imagine the reactions when as a guy you state to be a "Men's swim team groupie". Because it puzzles the "reader" for a second. Sort of like: Wait a minute, you're a guy, and you're... oh. Oh! :p
Absolutely no harm done, though. Quite the contrary - it would only make one think about their own view of the world, what one would expect, or how one might have a little prejudice despite better knowledge and resolution.

I've been approached and complimented by gay guys and while it was a little awkward since unexpected, I took it as the compliment it was meant to be (hey, if they thought I'm nice/handsome/goodlooking who am I to disagree?) but nonetheless kindly declined their offer. I'm simply not gay and into girls. :)

But hey, if I were too insecure to handle being approached by a gay guy that I wouldn't want to date - how in the world should I be able to talk to girls that I would want to date?


*Thank you,* someone who sees humour and freedom, instead of helpless victims everywhere. Sheesh. Blessed be the confident hot straight boys, even if I can find no practical application for them :)

The Gay Street Militia if the thought of you as a sexual being doesn't cause instant death or life long mental problems, then go for it. Assuming I could stand looking at you, I'd laugh my ass off if I was one of those swimmers.

Might give you my phonenumber too, but then again.. I never was very straight.

*Thank you,* someone who sees humour and freedom, instead of helpless victims everywhere. Sheesh. Blessed be the confident hot straight boys, even if I can find no practical application for them :)
:fluffle:
You're welcome.
I just felt I needed to say what I think and believe after seeing some of those replies. :rolleyes:

But it's funny to imagine the reactions when as a guy you state to be a "Men's swim team groupie". Because it puzzles the "reader" for a second. Sort of like: Wait a minute, you're a guy, and you're... oh. Oh! :p
Absolutely no harm done, though. Quite the contrary - it would only make one think about their own view of the world, what one would expect, or how one might have a little prejudice despite better knowledge and resolution.


Or maybe it would help guys know how a lot of women feel when guys shout lewd comments in the street at them

Or maybe it would help guys know how a lot of women feel when guys shout lewd comments in the street at them
http://www.studip.uni-goettingen.de/pictures/smile/nixweiss.gif I honestly don't know what you're talking about for I'd never display such rude behavior in the first place.

I don't think wearing that t-shirt is evil or icky or anything like that; I do think it's somewhat tacky (and, though this should go without saying, would be just as tacky if it were worn by a woman). If you're happy being somewhat tacky, then go for it. :)

ogling is what we all it's normal...I recall a number of years ago an interview with a lady cross country skier from the national team...she took up the sport after attending a competition with a friend... after seeing all the tall Nordic ripped men in spandex she said to herself "whoa! I've got to take up this sport"...

So a couple of weekends ago I got up at some gawd-arful hour on Sunday morning to attend a deeply spiritual service... namely a university swim meet. My school doesn't even have a team, but it's nestled up against a larger university that does, and if I knew nothing else I knew that there'd be a pool full of fit university guys (oh, and girls... I guess) in speedos. So this is what I hauled my butt out of bed for on my day off, and I called up some friends who came down to the pool too to ogle. And it occurred to me that if the 1 in 10 stat is even remotely true then at least a few of those fine young athletes were on my team. So I made a design to get put on a t-shirt for the next time I get to go watch a swim meet, says "Mens' Swim Team Groupie," and my boyfriend says it's "too much," and that the guys on the team might be offended or something.

As I see it, if I signed up for a swim team, I'd have to be pretty darned thick if I didn't realise that it would mean spending hours at a time in front of crowds in a tiny bit of aquadynamic fabric, and that there were bound to be spectators in that crowd who were there to see my form-- honed as it would likely be from countless hours of swimming-- in said bit of fabric as much (if not moreso) than to admire the athleticism of it all. So, if you don't like being checked out in a speedo, you should have joined the winter triathelon team and had a parka as your team uniform. As for the 'overtness' of being a guy in the stands with a t-shirt that makes it plain that you'd enjoy hooking up with one of the guys on the team; well sauce for the goose... I doubt that the exact same t-shirt on any girl in the stands would draw the same degree of criticism, if any. So I don't voluntarily censor myself for being homo and as overt about my attractions as any hetero. (Bit of advice, 'out' guys who find yourselves the object of the interest of 'closeted' guys... think twice, it can be a real brainfuck if you go ahead and give it a try anyway.) Incidentally, said t-shirt isn't meant to indicate that I'm looking to cheat on my partern... hell, if the right guy hit on me, my partner would say "as long as he knows we're a package deal."

Anyway, if I have a point at all it's this: who wants a t-shirt? :) And who thinks that the whole idea is a big shameless disgrace and that faggotry is horrible and taboo and we should keep our heads and our voices down? Frankly, if you're one of the latter I couldn't care less about your opinion, I expect the most playful thing in your wardrobe looks like a bedsheet with some eye-holes cut in it and a pair of flame-retardant gloves. But what I'm really getting at is... queer swim team boys: how many of you are there out there, and if you saw an alright-lookin' guy in the stands wearing a t-shirt that said "Mens' Swim Team Groupie" would you be likely to feel A) shy; B) angry; C) flattered; D) like trying to line up Palm Pilots from across the pool and IR sending your cell number and the hotel where your team is staying for the weekend?

In conclusion, it's late and I'm giggling and a little angry, as usual. And if my closeted boyfriend ever comes to his senses and leaves me-- because lord knows, I know I bring my own bubbling cauldron and broomstick to the relationship-- I'm never spending another 3 1/2 years with another closet-case ever again.

LOL. I dont think any str8 guys would be offended as long as you check them out from distance. This is Canada afterall. Some may be shy or flattered. As for the gay/bi guys, I dunno. But I know that some people dont like too eager people, whether guy or girl, str8 or otherwise. I usually "play it cool". But some may like the attention and you may hit it off...

Age plays a factor here too I think... if he is the 33 year old, oogling over a bunch of 19 years while wearing this t-shirt, well that then croses the line of what is decent and humerous.

LOL...That's true!

LOL...That's true!

yes older people should be more restrained...but being older doesn't change the way you think, a finely developed body is as attractive when you're older as it was when you were young...I would even say the older you are the more you appreciate a well defined body:D, youth is wasted on the young...

3 1/2 years with a closet case? DEAR LORD how?

Make no mistake, I'm rarely without a rainbow pin, or my dogtags, or whatever. But a lil' tiny pin 1) is as good as nothing at all from across the pool, and 2) means nothing to anyone who doesn't know what the rainbow flag means. The Groupie t-shirt says 'hi' to the closeted ones who wouldn't know a pride-symbol if you tattood it on their forearm, and to the bi-curious ones who might not notice a pride pin. As for what 'looks desperate' and what doesn't... well, that's just appearances, and whether or not you care about them. I know I'm not, and if any of em thought the t-shirt meant I was offering some easy trick they'd find out in pretty short order that flirty =/= desperate in my books.
Is there seriously a single person who doesn't live under a rock who doesn't know the rainbow or pink triangle?

I say go for it. Swimming is one of the gay national sports anyway, so it's not like it's out of place.
I'm gonna argue that. When I am at a meet, I am there to swim, not be eyefucked. Do people do it? No doubt. Most of the guys tend to learn to block it out, but it does get irritating when I have to swim a race and someone is blatantly eyefucking me, or worse, actually making comments (yeah, people really are that tactless)

Age plays a factor here too I think... if he is the 33 year old, oogling over a bunch of 19 years while wearing this t-shirt, well that then croses the line of what is decent and humerous.
I have to agree. It isn't the place to do it, nor is it the age group.


Personally, on one level, it would piss me of. On another level, I just wouldn't care. I'll explain. The part that wouldn't care is the part that says people who are at the swim meet just to stare are irrelevant and not worth even considering. All it will do is throw me off, and I can't spare that. My head has to be on my race, or getting my teammate to move his ass a little faster.
The part that does care is the part of me that hates being treated like a piece of meat. Like I said, people stare all the time But that isn't why we're there, and isn't why we train like hell. We're there to display our athletic abilities, not to be eye candy. You want scantily clad men, go to a chipendales.
Every swim team I've been on has had atleast one gay guy, be it openly so, or only open to the team. No doubt, there were several closet cases as well, and more bis. The point is, we're on a team together. They understand that it isn't the place to be staring at your teammates ass. After practice, or after a meet, sure. Do what you want. But during the meet, your head is in the game or you have no purpose there. I expect a certain level of respect out of the fans, same as I do my teammates. I would find that tshirt incredibly rude and inconsiderate to the athletes.
People stare, guys and girls alike. There is no need to hold up a banner that announces that you do it.

I'm gonna argue that. When I am at a meet, I am there to swim, not be eyefucked. Do people do it? No doubt. Most of the guys tend to learn to block it out, but it does get irritating when I have to swim a race and someone is blatantly eyefucking me, or worse, actually making comments (yeah, people really are that tactless).

You break my heart, cutie. Now, why was this post devoid of speedo shots?

Tease.

It's not 'wrong' or 'too far' because it's gay, but because it's just kinda too far. If I, as a straight guy, showed up with a shirt that said 'Women's Swim Team Groupie' I'd be creepy. Because it's creepy.

It's one thing to tacitly acknowledge that yeah, there are probably people out there checking out 'your package,' it's an entirely different thing to not only know for a fact that there is someone out there checking out the package, but it's that guy over there who is doing all the giggling.

Again, it's not because it's gay, but because it's tacky. It'd be as tacky as me wearing a shirt that says, "I'm staring at your breasts." It might be true, but I don't necessarily have to advertise.
I agree but not only that i could never be arsed to get up at 5 in the morning to watch them traning.

You break my heart, cutie. Now, why was this post devoid of speedo shots?

Tease.

haha...well, I tend to wear jammers (http://www.swim2000.com/images/product_gen/300x300/705648.jpg)(the ones the guy is wearing...although, those are the right size, and for a meet, you would wear a size too small), and avoid cameras like the plague when I'm at a meet. I'm sure there are some somewhere, but no one takes pictures at practices, and I don't really want someone taking my picture while I'm wearing jammers that are a size or two too small during a meet.

haha...well, I tend to wear jammers (http://www.swim2000.com/images/product_gen/300x300/705648.jpg)(the ones the guy is wearing...although, those are the right size, and for a meet, you would wear a size too small), and avoid cameras like the plague when I'm at a meet. I'm sure there are some somewhere, but no one takes pictures at practices, and I don't really want someone taking my picture while I'm wearing jammers that are a size or two too small during a meet.
I always hated having to wear a suit that was too small during meets. Especially when they were the ones with the super high-cut legs and next to no fabric in the back. On top of that our suits were black, but with a bigass green pawprint on the right buttcheek. Fun times, I tell you. :p

I for one welcome compliments from gay guys. At least someone would find me hot. (PS: IM REALLY FUCKING UGLY)

I always hated having to wear a suit that was too small during meets. Especially when they were the ones with the super high-cut legs and next to no fabric in the back. On top of that our suits were black, but with a bigass green pawprint on the right buttcheek. Fun times, I tell you. :p

I can't stand it, but it definatly boosts my times, so I guess I can deal.
Never wore the normal speedos personally...my teams always did jammers because it would get more guys willing to do it. All the local teams did jammers, so we wern't hurting. Atleast ours were pretty badass looking. My practice ones, however, were bad...the inner thighs were a weird red fabric that made every guy look like they were half-mast all the time

I for one welcome compliments from gay guys. At least someone would find me hot. (PS: IM REALLY FUCKING UGLY)

Oh, I couldn't care less about getting compliments from a gay guy...hell, look at me and Fass on here. But not during a swim meet.

I can't stand it, but it definatly boosts my times, so I guess I can deal.
Never wore the normal speedos personally...my teams always did jammers because it would get more guys willing to do it. All the local teams did jammers, so we wern't hurting. Atleast ours were pretty badass looking. My practice ones, however, were bad...the inner thighs were a weird red fabric that made every guy look like they were half-mast all the time
Haha yeah I guess I can see how you could get more guys on a team if they didn't have to wear normal speedos. Of course, when I was swimming I was overseas and everyone was pretty used to speedos, but now that I think about it several of the American guys on my high school team started using jammers as soon as our team suits were offered in that style. We girls didn't get the option of a kneeskin when we switched to Aquablades (did they even make kneeskins in that fabric? I can't remember), and when we switched to Fastskins they were too damn expensive for me to get one so I still stuck to the normal suit.

Haha yeah I guess I can see how you could get more guys on a team if they didn't have to wear normal speedos. Of course, when I was swimming I was overseas and everyone was pretty used to speedos, but now that I think about it several of the American guys on my high school team started using jammers as soon as our team suits were offered in that style. We girls didn't get the option of a kneeskin when we switched to Aquablades (did they even make kneeskins in that fabric? I can't remember), and when we switched to Fastskins they were too damn expensive for me to get one so I still stuck to the normal suit.

Yeah, being in the US makes you pretty prone to wearing as much as you can. I just feel more comfortable in them now that I've worn them so long. Its a weird thing, but hey, thats how it goes I guess

I agree with the posters who have said that it's tacky.

Age plays a factor here too I think... if he is the 33 year old, oogling over a bunch of 19 years while wearing this t-shirt, well that then croses the line of what is decent and humerous.Why would age matter?