NationStates Jolt Archive

A Muslim doctor is urging British Muslims to avoid getting vaccines because they're unholy. I'm sure that when an outbreak of disease ends up sickening and killing many Muslim children he'll see it as evidence that there is a conspiracy to kill his people. Meanwhile all those unvaccinated people are a public health crisis waiting to happen. Fucking backwards savages are endangering everyone around them.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-2570067,00.html

...and this surprises you given the outbreaks of Polio because someone in Nigeria decided that Polio vaccinations were part of a wider western conspiracy to make Islamic children sterile.

Maybe if the religious fundies of all types will refuse medical care they'll start dying off. We can always hope.

...and this surprises you given the outbreaks of Polio because someone in Nigeria decided that Polio vaccinations were part of a wider western conspiracy to make Islamic children sterile.

This particular occurance isn't in Africa, where many are uneducated and superstitious. This guy's telling Muslims in Britain to stay away from vaccines.

A Muslim doctor is urging British Muslims to avoid getting vaccines because they're unholy. I'm sure that when an outbreak of disease ends up sickening and killing many Muslim children he'll see it as evidence that there is a conspiracy to kill his people. Meanwhile all those unvaccinated people are a public health crisis waiting to happen. Fucking backwards savages are endangering everyone around them.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-2570067,00.html


Make access to the national health service contingent upon getting the vaccinations. Problem solved.

The more that die of disease, the fewer who will become terrorists. So whats the problem?

That guy sound like a candidate for a Darwin Award.....

Well, Muslim fundamentalists dying of nasty diseases isn't something I'm too bothered about, to be honest.

This particular occurance isn't in Africa, where many are uneducated and superstitious. This guy's telling Muslims in Britain to stay away from vaccines.

I'm aware of that. I was merely drawing comparisons with a nation where Islam is dominate and they had refused medical treatment.

This particular occurance isn't in Africa, where many are uneducated and superstitious. This guy's telling Muslims in Britain to stay away from vaccines.
We import these people like Taiwanese McDonalds toys.

At least theres a quote from a moderate muslim at the end. I don't know who has most power but I'd assume it would be the Muslim Council of Britain.
Dr Shuja Shafi, a spokesman for the health and medical committee of the Muslim Council of Britain, said: “In terms of ingredients in vaccines, there are so many things that are probably haram, but in the absence of an alternative we are allowed to take it for the sake of our health.”

A Muslim doctor is urging British Muslims to avoid getting vaccines because they're unholy. I'm sure that when an outbreak of disease ends up sickening and killing many Muslim children he'll see it as evidence that there is a conspiracy to kill his people. Meanwhile all those unvaccinated people are a public health crisis waiting to happen. Fucking backwards savages are endangering everyone around them.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-2570067,00.html


Like the way you compare and conrast the fundamentalist christians who refuse vacinations to give context..but no, its always easier to scream TEH MUSLIMESEZ IZ TEH SAVAGE!!!111!!!!

Annother problem with religion.

I did notice that the Muslim council of Britain was playing the voice of reason to some extent though.

EDIT: w00t post 128 !!!111!!!

Like the way you compare and conrast the fundamentalist christians who refuse vacinations to give context..but no, its always easier to scream TEH MUSLIMESEZ IZ TEH SAVAGE!!!111!!!!
Western society has an obsession with Islam these days, and 'Muslims oppose vaccinations' gets more attention than 'J-Ws oppose transfusions.' Sad, and deeply wrong, but true. I really wish it were otherwise.

Like the way you compare and conrast the fundamentalist christians who refuse vacinations to give context..but no, its always easier to scream TEH MUSLIMESEZ IZ TEH SAVAGE!!!111!!!!

Christians who refuse vaccines are als a problem. I just didn't see a news story about them because there are probably far fewer of them. Also I didn't say all Muslims were savages, just the ones who's beliefs are risking a public health crisis. Shit, if you've got a bunch of people who refuse vaccination then you risk an outbreak of disease in them. If it's a bacterial disease doctors will administer antibiotics and the risk of antibiotic resistent strains of bacteria developing will rise putting everyone at risk.

Western society has an obsession with Islam these days, and 'Muslims oppose vaccinations' gets more attention than 'J-Ws oppose transfusions.' Sad, and deeply wrong, but true. I really wish it were otherwise.

A Jehova's Witness refusing a transfusion is risking only his own health. He's not endangering others.

This is pretty ironic, given the large number of Muslim GPs in the NHS, many of whom will be giving out the anaesthetics.

Annother problem with religion.

I did notice that the Muslim council of Britain was playing the voice of reason to some extent though.

EDIT: w00t post 128 !!!111!!!

Good on them. I hope their message can reach more people than the anti-vaccine weirdos.

A Jehova's Witness refusing a transfusion is risking only his own health. He's not endangering others.

But a Muslim who has refused a vaccination is only a threat to those who haven't been vaccinated. In short: vaccinate the desirables and let the others go hang.

Going slightly off topic, our government push the virtues of vaccination at us, yet refuse to acknowledge if they have had their own children done

I still don't think Blair has said if his kids have had the MMR jab, despite telling us it is perfectly safe

Perhaps if he led more by example people wouldn't be scared

meh, you can't force them to take it, although i'm not sure about little children and vaccins.
if they want that, it's their own fault.

A Jehova's Witness refusing a transfusion is risking only his own health. He's not endangering others.
No, but I was addressing more of a broader point than comparing Christianity/Islam. However, transfusions can be used as a part of a treatment for Bacterial Septicaemia, again risking antibiotics if refused. Much less of a danger than refusing vaccinations, however.

meh, you can't force them to take it, although i'm not sure about little children and vaccins.
if they want that, it's their own fault.

I don't know about British law, but in the US a child needs to have certain vaccines to enter school, and all children are required to have an education, so it's pretty much mandatory except maybe if you homeschool or something.

Good on them. I hope their message can reach more people than the anti-vaccine weirdos.

Alas, I fear that dangerous roumor tends to propergate more rapidly than reason.

Good on them. I hope their message can reach more people than the anti-vaccine weirdos.
Not to mention the 100s of thousands of Muslim doctors who are probably thinking "WTF???"

I don't know about British law, but in the US a child needs to have certain vaccines to enter school, and all children are required to have an education, so it's pretty much mandatory except maybe if you homeschool or something.
I don't think vaccinations are required, plenty of people refuse MMR.

But a Muslim who has refused a vaccination is only a threat to those who haven't been vaccinated. In short: vaccinate the desirables and let the others go hang.

Not so. If they catch the disease they give it somewhere to live, and possibly mutate. If it mutates it might beat the vaccine. Then we all fucked.

I don't know about British law, but in the US a child needs to have certain vaccines to enter school, and all children are required to have an education, so it's pretty much mandatory except maybe if you homeschool or something.

They considered doing this here after the MMR scare. fewer children were vaccinated and herd immunity was reaching the point where it would no longer work. IIRC France does a similar thing.

But a Muslim who has refused a vaccination is only a threat to those who haven't been vaccinated. In short: vaccinate the desirables and let the others go hang.

Not if we're talking about a bacterial disease. Then antibiotics will be used as treatment and if you're giving antibiotics to a whole community of people you risk breeding antibiotic resistent strains of bacteria which can endanger everyone. For example, let's say there's an outbreak of diptheria in the unvaccinated community. Antibiotics are used to treat it. A couple of the people in that community also have tuberculosis. That TB becomes antibiotic resistent. Now it spreads within and outside the community and it's damn hard to cure.

Christians who refuse vaccines are als a problem. I just didn't see a news story about them because there are probably far fewer of them. Also I didn't say all Muslims were savages, just the ones who's beliefs are risking a public health crisis. Shit, if you've got a bunch of people who refuse vaccination then you risk an outbreak of disease in them. If it's a bacterial disease doctors will administer antibiotics and the risk of antibiotic resistent strains of bacteria developing will rise putting everyone at risk.


"
DEATHS from cervical cancer could jump fourfold to a million a year by 2050, mainly in developing countries. This could be prevented by soon-to-be-approved vaccines against the virus that causes most cases of cervical cancer - but there are signs that opposition to the vaccines might lead to many preventable deaths."

"
In the US, for instance, religious groups are gearing up to oppose vaccination, despite a survey showing 80 per cent of parents favour vaccinating their daughters. "Abstinence is the best way to prevent HPV," says Bridget Maher of the Family Research Council, a leading Christian lobby group that has made much of the fact that, because it can spread by skin contact, condoms are not as effective against HPV as they are against other viruses such as HIV."
http://www.newscientist.com/channel/sex/mg18624954.500

"
DEATHS from cervical cancer could jump fourfold to a million a year by 2050, mainly in developing countries. This could be prevented by soon-to-be-approved vaccines against the virus that causes most cases of cervical cancer - but there are signs that opposition to the vaccines might lead to many preventable deaths."

"
In the US, for instance, religious groups are gearing up to oppose vaccination, despite a survey showing 80 per cent of parents favour vaccinating their daughters. "Abstinence is the best way to prevent HPV," says Bridget Maher of the Family Research Council, a leading Christian lobby group that has made much of the fact that, because it can spread by skin contact, condoms are not as effective against HPV as they are against other viruses such as HIV."
http://www.newscientist.com/channel/sex/mg18624954.500
Yes, I know about those christian fundamentalist scumbags. I've known about them since reading the book Kingdom Coming several months ago. I don't care for them trying to convert the US into a theocracy and endangering human life in their quest to attach unnecessary consequences to premarital sex. I've posted about them before. Your point?

Lets be fair to him he's not against all vaccinations.

Another prominent MCB leader, Dr Abdul Majid Katme, was quoted by Muslim writer Anissa Helie as telling a UK conference: “Lesbianism is spreading like fire in society. We must vaccinate our children against this curse.”


http://www.petertatchell.net/politics/sacranie.htm

:D

Yes, I know about those christian fundamentalist scumbags. I've posted about them before. Your point?

their point is to distract you from the issue at hand.

my kids do this

"did you just hit your sister"
"she pulled the dogs tail before lunch"

I don't know about British law, but in the US a child needs to have certain vaccines to enter school, and all children are required to have an education, so it's pretty much mandatory except maybe if you homeschool or something.

oh well, i didn't know about that. but you can't really force people to take any kind of medical treatment. only when the patient is a young child (or otherwise unable to make his own judgement, due to unconsciousness for instance) a judge can say that the parents temporarily don't have the right to decide over the child (eg. in case of the children of jehova witnesses). or so it is here in Belgium iirc

their point is to distract you from the issue at hand.

my kids do this

"did you just hit your sister"
"she pulled the dogs tail before lunch"

I guess so. Either that or accuse me of having a double standard for Muslims and Christians.

A Muslim doctor is urging British Muslims to avoid getting vaccines because they're unholy. I'm sure that when an outbreak of disease ends up sickening and killing many Muslim children he'll see it as evidence that there is a conspiracy to kill his people. Meanwhile all those unvaccinated people are a public health crisis waiting to happen. Fucking backwards savages are endangering everyone around them.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-2570067,00.html

Every religion has these kind of nuts.
For example, these guys don't get vaccinations: Linky (http://www.tfccs.com/)
They call it "religious exemption"

Yes, I know about those christian fundamentalist scumbags. I've known about them since reading the book Kingdom Coming several months ago. I don't care for them trying to convert the US into a theocracy and endangering human life in their quest to attach unnecessary consequences to premarital sex. I've posted about them before. Your point?


My point is that the title and text seems to be far more generalised than should be the case.

Preventing disease is unislamic.
A Muslim doctor is urging British Muslims to avoid getting vaccines because they're unholy. I'm sure that when an outbreak of disease ends up sickening and killing many Muslim children he'll see it as evidence that there is a conspiracy to kill his people. Meanwhile all those unvaccinated people are a public health crisis waiting to happen. Fucking backwards savages are endangering everyone around them.

Also the "all those unvaccinated people" etc.


their point is to distract you from the issue at hand.

my kids do this
"did you just hit your sister"
"she pulled the dogs tail before lunch"


Not "Jesus-in-the-clouds told me"?

I just rememberd what else about the article disturbed me;

The doctor's advice on avoiding illness without vaccination.

While eating a diet as described in the Q'aran my be more health calorie-wise I doubt it will help with polio.

A Muslim doctor is urging British Muslims to avoid getting vaccines because they're unholy. I'm sure that when an outbreak of disease ends up sickening and killing many Muslim children he'll see it as evidence that there is a conspiracy to kill his people. Meanwhile all those unvaccinated people are a public health crisis waiting to happen. Fucking backwards savages are endangering everyone around them.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-2570067,00.html

You might remember this thread that I started

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=501417&highlight=polio

This "OMGZ the kufrs are conspirating to making us sterile by using vaccinations" is ALL the rage in rural muslim areas in India and Pakistan and some parts of Africa too.

It was fuelled by mullahs and it is sad to see this "doctor" instead of countering this dangerous BS - make that very dangerous, since in some parts of the world they have stopped vaccinating for polio and an outbreak would be very serious - this idiot doctor is doing the opposite.

My point is that the title and text seems to be far more generalised than should be the case.



<snip>

Dude, have you ever seen any of my other threads? Generalization and sensationalism are my thing. Shit, just last week I titled a thread about a Catholic group objecting to a movie with an underage rape scene in it "Catholics are opposed to raping Dakota Fanning".

A Muslim doctor is urging British Muslims to avoid getting vaccines because they're unholy. I'm sure that when an outbreak of disease ends up sickening and killing many Muslim children he'll see it as evidence that there is a conspiracy to kill his people. Meanwhile all those unvaccinated people are a public health crisis waiting to happen. Fucking backwards savages are endangering everyone around them.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-2570067,00.html

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20050530/pollitt


http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=w060306&s=groopman031006
"conservative groups promoting abstinence say they will fight recommendations that children get shot"

Interesting another religion rejecting vaccine to prevent disease.

Jeez, all you guys complaining about the christians not getting equal treatment need to calm down. I know there are christians who refuse vaccinations but not every thread has to cover all topics similair to it. Plus I dont see anything wrong with bashing fundamentalist Islam, as we seem to spend so much time on fundamentalist christians.

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20050530/pollitt


http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=w060306&s=groopman031006


Interesting another religion rejecting vaccine to prevent disease.

Yeah, I know. http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11594958&postcount=55 You'll notice the post is dated August of last year. I've known for a while and I don't approve.

Jeez, all you guys complaining about the christians not getting equal treatment need to calm down. I know there are christians who refuse vaccinations but not every thread has to cover all topics similair to it. Plus I dont see anything wrong with bashing fundamentalist Islam, as we seem to spend so much time on fundamentalist christians.

but......if you make a statement about Islam that isn't peachy and pretty you are being intolerant.

but......if you make a statement about Islam that isn't peachy and pretty you are being intolerant.

Uh-oh, my sarcasm sensing powers are failing me!

(are you serious?)

Uh-oh, my sarcasm sensing powers are failing me!

(are you serious?)

Not too long ago I posted a thread titled "proof that Jesus is gay" that had a picture of Jesus on the cross forming the Y as three young men formed the M, C, and A as in the YMCA dance made popular by the village people. I didn't get angry responses from Christians. Anything controversial or joking about Islam, however, always brings loads of angry responses on this message board and in the real world. It seems that joking about Christianity is OK, but joking about or criticizing Islam is off limits for some reason. Fuck 'em. They'll take their fair share of jokes and criticism whether they like it or not.

And to think that most of our "modern" knowledge about medicine only survived the Dark Ages in those areas where Islam was the primary religion... That's really sad!

"Preventing disease is unislamic" reads the title, yet the first post doesnt either reference someone else's claim that this is so, nor make such a claim itself. :rolleyes:

How ironic that the OP then talks about savages....
post #3 looks forward to the deaths of 'religious fundies' - nice given what is being discussed is immunisation of young children so the deaths at issue are the deaths of young children, post number 4 enjoins us to refuse medical treatment to children - in practise to leave them to die rather than render medical assistance all because their parents made a decision they have no control over, and in reference to these children (since it is child hood vaccinations that are the primary issue) who are innocent of any crime post number 5 asserts that the more children who die the less can grow up to be criminals, so it's no problem, by this logic the more schools we blow up with the children inside the less of them will grow up to be criminals, so according to poster number 5's logic we can assume that blowing up innocent school children in their class rooms is no problem too. If poster number 5 is consistent in following through this logic he or she must be thrilled about9/11, given it undoubtly stopped the birth of many children thus preventing any of them from growing up to be criminals. We get more of the same sentiment from poster number 6.

As incrediable as it seems the posters concerned probably actually think that the deaths of innocent children who have never wished them harm is ok but the deaths of such fine citizens who wish fatal diseases on innocent children would be some kind of tragedy....I too see savages who's presence in my society causes me to feel endangered. So far as I can see, people who have such an attitude towards the suffering and deaths of innocent children are indeed savages whose presence in our society endangers us all.

You people are talking about innocent children however much you try to hide your nasty minded cruelty and lack of decency by describing them as fundies or potentially criminal. The word sick doesnt cover it, unfortunately I'm not aware of any vaccine for this kind of condition, currently in production.

"Preventing disease is unislamic" reads the title, yet the first post doesnt either reference someone else's claim that this is so, nor make such a claim itself. :rolleyes:

<snip>.

I've snipped the bulk of your post since it doesn't refer to me. One of the reasons I'm sickened by the primitive, superstitious belief that a vaccine which prevents disease is an impurity to be refused is because it will harm innocent children.

As for not referencing someone's claim that "preventing disease is unislamic", it's found in the link I provided. On NS it's frowned upon to simply post or paraphrase an article without providing one's commentary. The part I typed was my commentary on the article I linked to.

Yeah, I know. http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11594958&postcount=55 You'll notice the post is dated August of last year. I've known for a while and I don't approve.

Ok? sorry for missing a post ... from august last year?

Idiots.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6299325.stm
Health officials in Pakistan say they have failed to immunise over 160,000 children against polio due to rumours the vaccine causes sexual impotence.

Parents in parts of northern Pakistan told the BBC news website they feared an "American conspiracy" to cut the fertility of the next generation.:rolleyes:

Pakistan is one of four countries the World Health Organisation (WHO) says is a source of polio.

The WHO has led a $196m-a-year campaign to control the disease in Pakistan.

At least 39 cases of polio were reported in 2006, 15 of them in the North West Frontier Province (NWFP). The NWFP and the tribal areas account for 20% of those targeted for immunisation.

Worldwide 1,902 cases of polio were reported during the year, a recent WHO report said.

A WHO meeting in Geneva last October heard that children paralysed by polio around the world were infected by viruses originating from Pakistan, Afghanistan, India and Nigeria.

Radio rumours

The main opposition to the drive in Pakistan came from local clerics who run illegal FM radio channels in many NWFP districts and the tribal areas, say officials.

Amirullah Khan, a resident of NWFP's Swat district, quoted Maulana Fazlullah of a local FM channel as telling his listeners the vaccination drive was "a conspiracy of the Jews and Christians to stunt the population growth of Muslims".:rolleyes:

Maulana Fazlullah confirmed this to BBC, saying if the international organisations were keen on improving the health of the Muslims, they should help the hepatitis-C patients in the area.

Last year samples of the vaccine were laboratory-tested after a petition in Peshawar High Court alleged they contained oestrogen.

The hormone was not found, said Dr Waheed Khan, a health official.

But the FM channels have won many supporters in the more conservative areas of NWFP and the tribal region, officials have said.

Vaccine teams beaten up

A WHO report for 2006 said 66 localities in these areas were not covered by the immunisation staff due to logistical problems, and coverage in 320 localities was "poor" because of the anti-vaccine propaganda.

In some areas immunisation teams were beaten up by local people, officials said.

Elsewhere parents just refused to get their children immunised.

The WHO says global polio eradication efforts have reduced the annual incidence of polio worldwide from 350,000 cases in 1988 to 1,902 in 2006.

But the NWFP health officials believe anti-vaccine propaganda may jeopardise WHO's aim of making the world polio-free.

Maybe if the religious fundies of all types will refuse medical care they'll start dying off. We can always hope.

QFT. Here's to cleaning up the gene pool.

I've snipped the bulk of your post since it doesn't refer to me.
No, it doesnt, I take some exception with the title and with the use of the word savages in the context, but otherwise your contributions to the thread, including initiating it, are fine with me.

One of the reasons I'm sickened by the primitive, superstitious belief that a vaccine which prevents disease is an impurity to be refused is because it will harm innocent children.
So obviously you'll see my point. After all if people acting in a way they believe will protect their children, but which in fact places them at risk of harm, is sickening to you, you must be as repulsed as I am by those who actively wish such harms on the children at issue.

As for not referencing someone's claim that "preventing disease is unislamic", it's found in the link I provided.
No, it isnt.

On NS it's frowned upon to simply post or paraphrase an article without providing one's commentary. The part I typed was my commentary on the article I linked to.
The linked to article does not contain any claim that preventing disease is unislamic, nor does it refer to such a claim. Providing commentary doesnt necessitate the use of the particular word savage, nor in my opinion is it appropriate in the context - still, although I find the use of the word unpalatable and inappapropriate, I wouldnt consider it worth commenting on in its own right. The irony arose not because you used the word, but because of the savage views expressed in the posts that followed yours, such as charming post number 3 where the very harm you are sickened by is asserted as being something to be hoped for.

I'm sure you can see that wishing that kind of harm on children is indeed savage, hence the irony. If such savage views hadnt followed your use of the word, it wouldnt have been rendered ironic and so wouldnt have been particulary comment-worthy.

Meh.

Many (at least more than one stupid pseudo-doctor) Christians attack stem cell research that would help EVERYONE.

These guys may be morons but at least they're morons with THEIR OWN lives.

Ok? sorry for missing a post ... from august last year?

My bad. I thought you were implying, as I think Nodinia was, that I dont' comment on Christian idiocy.

No, it doesnt, I take some exception with the title and with the use of the word savages in the context, but otherwise your contributions to the thread, including initiating it, are fine with me.

So obviously you'll see my point. After all if people acting in a way they believe will protect their children, but which in fact places them at risk of harm, is sickening to you, you must be as repulsed as I am by those who actively wish such harms on the children at issue.

No, it isnt.


The linked to article does not contain any claim that preventing disease is unislamic, nor does it refer to such a claim. Providing commentary doesnt necessitate the use of the particular word savage, nor in my opinion is it appropriate in the context - still, although I find the use of the word unpalatable and inappapropriate, I wouldnt consider it worth commenting on in its own right. The irony arose not because you used the word, but because of the savage views expressed in the posts that followed yours, such as charming post number 3 where the very harm you are sickened by is asserted as being something to be hoped for.

I'm sure you can see that wishing that kind of harm on children is indeed savage, hence the irony. If such savage views hadnt followed your use of the word, it wouldnt have been rendered ironic and so wouldnt have been particulary comment-worthy.

A MUSLIM doctors’ leader has provoked an outcry by urging British Muslims not to vaccinate their children against diseases such as measles, mumps and rubella because it is “un-Islamic”.That's directly cut and pasted from the article. A muslim doctor's leader us urging Muslims not to vaccinate their kids because it's "un-Islamic".

My bad. I thought you were implying, as I think Nodinia was, that I dont' comment on Christian idiocy.

Ah no ... I know you I just wanted to bring it up because some (not necessarily you) have a history of "the west can do no wrong" sort of view (of which Christianity as the dominant religion implies something about the culture, at least some of it, as much as middle eastern culture is influenced by Islam)

Just an attempt at perspective

These guys may be morons but at least they're morons with THEIR OWN lives.

No, they threaten everyone with their stupidity. It's scum like them that cause diseases that should have been eradicated to thrive and spread; if it was only them that were dying, then I would say good riddance, but there are a lot of innocent people that are going to be sickened or even killed because of this nonsense.

I don't know about British law, but in the US a child needs to have certain vaccines to enter school, and all children are required to have an education, so it's pretty much mandatory except maybe if you homeschool or something.
That's true in Canada too, and yet somehow my brother managed to get rubella when he was 14.

Rubella's nasty.

Oh man, for a second I thought you were Soviestan. I actually had an adrenaline rush when I read someone who I thought was Soviestan calling British Muslims "backwards savages"

Okay, I'm calm. It was really surprising.

:D

Oh man, for a second I thought you were Soviestan. I actually had an adrenaline rush when I read someone who I thought was Soviestan calling British Muslims "backwards savages"

Okay, I'm calm. It was really surprising.

:D

That guy sound like a candidate for a Darwin Award.....

He's only eligible if he himself dies.

No, they threaten everyone with their stupidity. It's scum like them that cause diseases that should have been eradicated to thrive and spread; if it was only them that were dying, then I would say good riddance, but there are a lot of innocent people that are going to be sickened or even killed because of this nonsense.

That would make them just like the Christians I used as an example.

Very well.

That's directly cut and pasted from the article. A muslim doctor's leader us urging Muslims not to vaccinate their kids because it's "un-Islamic".
And so? The title is not 'vaccination is unislamic', the title is 'preventing disease is unislamic'. No such claim is made or referred to in your comments or the article. Not only does the doctor refered in your quote above not make such a claim, he actually gave advice about islamic ways in which to prevent disease, so clearly he doesnt think disease prevention is unislamic.

The doctor claims that some specific methods of achieving disease prevention are unislamic, not that disease prevention is unislamic. If I told you some men are criminals would you interpret my statement as calling all men criminals? I hope not.

generic "they will kill themselves off" statement

Not too long ago I posted a thread titled "proof that Jesus is gay" that had a picture of Jesus on the cross forming the Y as three young men formed the M, C, and A as in the YMCA dance made popular by the village people. I didn't get angry responses from Christians. Anything controversial or joking about Islam, however, always brings loads of angry responses on this message board and in the real world. It seems that joking about Christianity is OK, but joking about or criticizing Islam is off limits for some reason. Fuck 'em. They'll take their fair share of jokes and criticism whether they like it or not.

That's because many people suggest openly killing off all muslims (and these people are NOT viewed as "terrorists" unlike the pseudo-muslims that suggest killing off Christians). As a result, they will tend to be wary of jokes, yes.

A Muslim doctor is urging British Muslims to avoid getting vaccines because they're unholy. I'm sure that when an outbreak of disease ends up sickening and killing many Muslim children he'll see it as evidence that there is a conspiracy to kill his people. Meanwhile all those unvaccinated people are a public health crisis waiting to happen. Fucking backwards savages are endangering everyone around them.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-2570067,00.html

Preventing disease is not unislamic and this doctor, I'm sorry to say is an idiot. The bottomline is as the doctor at the end of the article pointed out, Allah wishes us no hardships and we are allowed to have the vaccines for the sake of our health. Most Muslims I know and I think most Muslims in general would agree with this. We can even eat pork if it means saving our lives. Nice try at trying to make Islam look backward, but its not going to work.

A Muslim doctor is urging British Muslims to avoid getting vaccines because they're unholy. I'm sure that when an outbreak of disease ends up sickening and killing many Muslim children he'll see it as evidence that there is a conspiracy to kill his people. Meanwhile all those unvaccinated people are a public health crisis waiting to happen. Fucking backwards savages are endangering everyone around them.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-2570067,00.html

This guy should be stripped of his license for being an idiot.

A Muslim doctor is urging British Muslims to avoid getting vaccines because they're unholy. I'm sure that when an outbreak of disease ends up sickening and killing many Muslim children he'll see it as evidence that there is a conspiracy to kill his people. Meanwhile all those unvaccinated people are a public health crisis waiting to happen. Fucking backwards savages are endangering everyone around them.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-2570067,00.html

It's too bad. Allah says that He will help you when you've tried your best to help yourself.

Also, the Prophet Muhammad (SAW) himself, when asked about how to treat diseases, recommended medicines.

That would make them just like the Christians I used as an example.

Very well.

Anyone who resists medical treatment for those reasons is doing nothing but propagating the spread of disease, and should be regarded as threats to public health and safety.

Plenty of the more... enthousiastic brands of Christianity do this as well. It's a religous thing, not a Muslim thing.

A Muslim doctor is urging British Muslims to avoid getting vaccines because they're unholy. I'm sure that when an outbreak of disease ends up sickening and killing many Muslim children he'll see it as evidence that there is a conspiracy to kill his people. Meanwhile all those unvaccinated people are a public health crisis waiting to happen. Fucking backwards savages are endangering everyone around them.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-2570067,00.html

The US should drop a bomb containing a virus the allied troops are immune to but Muslims are not when the Islamic extremists die of disease democracy can safely settle in. They give us "infidels" anthrax we give them polio or the mumps.

Oh please, biological warfare is so last millenium :rolleyes:

The US should drop a bomb containing a virus the allied troops are immune to but Muslims are not when the Islamic extremists die of disease democracy can safely settle in. They give us "infidels" anthrax we give them polio or the mumps.

I still think Dr. Hatfill was responsible for the anthrax. Also many if not most of the Muslims you kill will be kids who might otherwise actually grow up to be decent people.

Maybe if the religious fundies of all types will refuse medical care they'll start dying off. We can always hope.

If it were a matter of people simply refusing medical care for themselves, that would be one thing. But the entire purpose of many vaccines is to prevent an outbreak of any type of a given disease. It is possible that even those who have been vaccinated, with a close enough exposure, can get many diseases. Refusal of any large group to get vaccines puts everyone around them in danger as well.

oh well, i didn't know about that. but you can't really force people to take any kind of medical treatment. only when the patient is a young child (or otherwise unable to make his own judgement, due to unconsciousness for instance) a judge can say that the parents temporarily don't have the right to decide over the child (eg. in case of the children of jehova witnesses). or so it is here in Belgium iirc

I don't know about the UK, but this is not the case in the US. In fact, a doctor who gives a transfusion to a JW child, even to save his life, can be sued for assault. Personally, I think there should be a limit to what a parent can do with their child for religion's sake, and I think refusal of medical treatment is past that limit, but many (notably, the courts in the US) apparently disagree.

Preventing disease is not unislamic and this doctor, I'm sorry to say is an idiot. The bottomline is as the doctor at the end of the article pointed out, Allah wishes us no hardships and we are allowed to have the vaccines for the sake of our health. Most Muslims I know and I think most Muslims in general would agree with this. We can even eat pork if it means saving our lives. Nice try at trying to make Islam look backward, but its not going to work.

Wait, you're allowed to do things you wouldn't otherwise do for the sake of your health?

Based on the other thread, I'll have to assume that only men are allowed to do so. After all, you think a woman who has just been through childbirth with complications to refuse necessary medical treatment just so that she won't be seen by a male doctor.

Not too long ago I posted a thread titled "proof that Jesus is gay" that had a picture of Jesus on the cross forming the Y as three young men formed the M, C, and A as in the YMCA dance made popular by the village people. I didn't get angry responses from Christians. Anything controversial or joking about Islam, however, always brings loads of angry responses on this message board and in the real world. It seems that joking about Christianity is OK, but joking about or criticizing Islam is off limits for some reason. Fuck 'em. They'll take their fair share of jokes and criticism whether they like it or not.

After hearing people who are 100% serious when they say that there needs to be a Holocaust of Muslims, the Muhammad cartoons, and all that stuff we can't tell the difference between a joke and someone who is serious anymore. I'd rather take the "strict, religious fundie" title rather than the "pushover" title.

Wait, you're allowed to do things you wouldn't otherwise do for the sake of your health?

Based on the other thread, I'll have to assume that only men are allowed to do so. After all, you think a woman who has just been through childbirth with complications to refuse necessary medical treatment just so that she won't be seen by a male doctor.

I also stated in that thread if it truly were a life or death case, I would allow my wife to be seen by a male doctor.

I also stated in that thread if it truly were a life or death case, I would allow my wife to be seen by a male doctor.

How gracious of you, that you would allow her to ...

Am I the only one disturbed by the idea of someone "allowing" their spouse medical care only if they think it is life or death ...

I also stated in that thread if it truly were a life or death case, I would allow my wife to be seen by a male doctor.

Taking a vaccine is not "truly a life or death case." You could go your entire life without being exposed to the disease that the vaccine would protect against.

In fact, what that woman was going through was much, much, much loser to a "truly life and death situation" than getting a vaccine is. She was in imminent danger of having a life-threatening condition for which they needed to check. Most people who get vaccines have no reason to believe they have been exposed to the disease, or that they will any time soon.

A Muslim doctor is urging British Muslims to avoid getting vaccines because they're unholy. I'm sure that when an outbreak of disease ends up sickening and killing many Muslim children he'll see it as evidence that there is a conspiracy to kill his people. Meanwhile all those unvaccinated people are a public health crisis waiting to happen. Fucking backwards savages are endangering everyone around them.


No more backwards than most Europeans when vaccinations began here, about 150 years ago iirc.

Oh, and, by the way, 2000 years ago, when the Britons still painted blue warsigns on their faces, the Romans were building roads, aqueducts and public toilets and thermae. By your own terms, who were the "backwards savages" then? It is always dangerous to start calling other people "backwards savages" just because their culture hasn't completely accepted something yet - give them a bit of time.

Also, a the opinion of a single muslim doctor doesn't correspond necessarily to the opinion of ALL muslim, you know. What you're saying reeks of racism.

That guy sound like a candidate for a Darwin Award.....
Not really. Darwin awards are about removing your own bad genes from the gene pool; this guy (who may have been vaccinated himself anyway) is taking care of other people who have the bad genes to listen to him.

Oh, and, by the way, 2000 years ago, when the Britons still painted blue warsigns on their faces, the Romans were building roads, aqueducts and public toilets and thermae. By your own terms, who were the "backwards savages" then? It is always dangerous to start calling other people "backwards savages" just because their culture hasn't completely accepted something yet - give them a bit of time.

The Romans were also invaders.

No more backwards than most Europeans when vaccinations began here, about 150 years ago iirc.

Oh, and, by the way, 2000 years ago, when the Britons still painted blue warsigns on their faces, the Romans were building roads, aqueducts and public toilets and thermae. By your own terms, who were the "backwards savages" then? It is always dangerous to start calling other people "backwards savages" just because their culture hasn't completely accepted something yet - give them a bit of time.

Also, a the opinion of a single muslim doctor doesn't correspond necessarily to the opinion of ALL muslim, you know. What you're saying reeks of racism.

What you're saying reeks of stupidity. DCD has posted many threads lambasting chistians for refusing vaccinations and generally taking the piss out of them, so if anything he's equally dismissive of all religions. Stupid stories get posted on NS all the time, and this one certainly seems to fit in.
Admittedly the thread title is inflammatory, but then what else would you expect? and the OP clarifies the title.

What you're saying reeks of stupidity

I don't think so.
A racist attitude is -basically- judging groups of people (ethnical, national, religious groups) by stereotypes. Thus, the OP is racist because he calls ALL muslim "fucking backwards savages" because the opinion of a SINGLE muslim is being taken as paradigm of ALL muslims.
A stupid attitude would be expressing an opinion without any argument to support it. Thus, you fail.

I don't think so.
A racist attitude is -basically- judging groups of people (ethnical, national, religious groups) by stereotypes. Thus, the OP is racist because he calls ALL muslim "fucking backwards savages" because the opinion of a SINGLE muslim is being taken as paradigm of ALL muslims.
A stupid attitude would be expressing an opinion without any argument to support it. Thus, you fail.

Indeed it would be a stupid attitude. But unless DCD comes back here to confirm otherwise, the 'fucking backwards savages' refers to the unvaccinated people, not all Muslims. As those people were the object of the sentence before the one about the savages.

these people nedd to be vaccinated, even if it only to protect mass outbursts.

Indeed it would be a stupid attitude. But unless DCD comes back here to confirm otherwise, the 'fucking backwards savages' refers to the unvaccinated people, not all Muslims. As those people were the object of the sentence before the one about the savages.

I see what you're meaning. I hope that you're right, but I fear, re-reading the OP, that you're wrong. Context usually is broader than "preceding sentence only".

Anyone who resists medical treatment for those reasons is doing nothing but propagating the spread of disease, and should be regarded as threats to public health and safety.

Time to round up some Jehovah Witnesses.

And the pharmacists that deny women birth control on psychotic grounds. And those who support them.

Fine by me.

The US should drop a bomb containing a virus the allied troops are immune to but Muslims are not when the Islamic extremists die of disease democracy can safely settle in. They give us "infidels" anthrax we give them polio or the mumps.

Funny, Bin Laden would like to do the same and you call him an evil enemy, rather than your equal.

A Muslim doctor is urging British Muslims to avoid getting vaccines because they're unholy. I'm sure that when an outbreak of disease ends up sickening and killing many Muslim children he'll see it as evidence that there is a conspiracy to kill his people. Meanwhile all those unvaccinated people are a public health crisis waiting to happen. Fucking backwards savages are endangering everyone around them.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-2570067,00.html
Where I live, our primary problem is with Christian sects that do this sort of thing. The HPV vaccine is only the most recent example of how these people endanger their children (and any other children unlucky enough to come into contact with them) by refusing to protect them against preventable diseases.

If it were simply a case of their own health being at risk, I wouldn't much care. If they want to have their children die of preventable illnesses then they can wipe themselves out for all I care. But their idiocy is making the world less safe for other children, and that pisses me off.

How gracious of you, that you would allow her to ...

Am I the only one disturbed by the idea of someone "allowing" their spouse medical care only if they think it is life or death ...

No. I, God, am disturbed too.

A Muslim doctor is urging British Muslims to avoid getting vaccines because they're unholy. I'm sure that when an outbreak of disease ends up sickening and killing many Muslim children he'll see it as evidence that there is a conspiracy to kill his people. Meanwhile all those unvaccinated people are a public health crisis waiting to happen. Fucking backwards savages are endangering everyone around them.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-2570067,00.html

So say many christions, nothing new, nothing spectacular...

How gracious of you, that you would allow her to ...

Am I the only one disturbed by the idea of someone "allowing" their spouse medical care only if they think it is life or death ...

What disturbs me is that there are women who have been abused so badly that they would actually enter into a marriage with that kind of person. :(

Taking a vaccine is not "truly a life or death case." You could go your entire life without being exposed to the disease that the vaccine would protect against.

In fact, what that woman was going through was much, much, much loser to a "truly life and death situation" than getting a vaccine is. She was in imminent danger of having a life-threatening condition for which they needed to check. Most people who get vaccines have no reason to believe they have been exposed to the disease, or that they will any time soon.

every case is different so what is allowed or not depends on the situation. In addition taking a vaccine could very well mean the difference between life or death in the long run.

A Muslim doctor is urging British Muslims to avoid getting vaccines because they're unholy. I'm sure that when an outbreak of disease ends up sickening and killing many Muslim children he'll see it as evidence that there is a conspiracy to kill his people. Meanwhile all those unvaccinated people are a public health crisis waiting to happen. Fucking backwards savages are endangering everyone around them.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-2570067,00.html

The same debate once raged in Christian circles. Christian Scientists still oppose most medical care believing it evidence of faithlessness. We also have Christian Conservatives fighting the HPV vaccines because telling young girls that we don't want them them to get cancer and die is "the wrong message."

The Chinese had the right idea. The deeply religous are the lowest of the low and should be put on par with criminals, beggars, and actors.

How gracious of you, that you would allow her to ...

Am I the only one disturbed by the idea of someone "allowing" their spouse medical care only if they think it is life or death ...

All medical care could concievably be life or death. For example, if my baby daughter runs a fever and I don't call the doctor my wife'll kill me. :D

I see what you're meaning. I hope that you're right, but I fear, re-reading the OP, that you're wrong. Context usually is broader than "preceding sentence only".

DCD himself has confirmed that he was referring to those refusing to be vaccinated, not all Muslims.


every case is different so what is allowed or not depends on the situation.

....but obviously not on the severity or immediacy of the situation. According to you, its perfectly alright to break Allah's rules for preventative medicine. However, if you actually need to be seen by a doctor right now, and you happen to be female, you better cover yourself up and not let him see you.

In addition taking a vaccine could very well mean the difference between life or death in the long run.

Being seen by that doctor could very well have meant the difference between life and death in the next few days for that woman, but you think she should have refused medical treatment.

Well, Muslim fundamentalists dying of nasty diseases isn't something I'm too bothered about, to be honest.

Now if only the Christian Fundies in this country would follow suit.

The same debate once raged in Christian circles. Christian Scientists still oppose most medical care believing it evidence of faithlessness. We also have Christian Conservatives fighting the HPV vaccines because telling young girls that we don't want them them to get cancer and die is "the wrong message."

The Chinese had the right idea. The deeply religous are the lowest of the low and should be put on par with criminals, beggars, and actors.

As an actor, I resent that. :D

A Muslim doctor is urging British Muslims to avoid getting vaccines because they're unholy. I'm sure that when an outbreak of disease ends up sickening and killing many Muslim children he'll see it as evidence that there is a conspiracy to kill his people. Meanwhile all those unvaccinated people are a public health crisis waiting to happen. Fucking backwards savages are endangering everyone around them.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-2570067,00.html

People are stupid. Some more than others.

Well, Muslim fundamentalists dying of nasty diseases isn't something I'm too bothered about, to be honest.

yet if these sicknesses fester in their groups, there is a higher chance the diseases will mutate to a strain that you and I are not immunized against... hence making us vulnerable. They may die, but they can still take us out with them

A Muslim doctor is urging British Muslims to avoid getting vaccines because they're unholy. I'm sure that when an outbreak of disease ends up sickening and killing many Muslim children he'll see it as evidence that there is a conspiracy to kill his people. Meanwhile all those unvaccinated people are a public health crisis waiting to happen. Fucking backwards savages are endangering everyone around them.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-2570067,00.html

Without reading the 7 other pages I'll make this comment:

Well, there's a strong trend among Evangelical communities not to vaccinate their children, so this isn't just a Muslim thing. Generally they're found within the groups that believe birth control is wrong because children are God's gift, which is basically all Evangelicals, and you shouldn't stop gifts. Some of them base it on scripture(I don't remember how, I try to forget everything they ever told me),but alot of them do it because they think it causes autism. Basically, when you have so many children(7-12) the chances of having one different from the rest increases. So if they end up with a slower and/or rebellious child they'll always blame it on the vaccination and every child after that won't be vaccinated. Oh, and I know all of this from first hand experience because, for some very odd reason, might have something to do with spending the last half of my life in Alabama, most of my friend's belong to one Evangelical group or another. Not all of them are bad, but most of them are pretty terrifying. I saw Jesus Camp stuff first hand, heheheh.

Without reading the 7 other pages I'll make this comment:

Well, there's a strong trend among Evangelical communities not to vaccinate their children, so this isn't just a Muslim thing. Generally they're found within the groups that believe birth control is wrong because children are God's gift, which is basically all Evangelicals, and you shouldn't stop gifts. Some of them base it on scripture(I don't remember how, I try to forget everything they ever told me),but alot of them do it because they think it causes autism. Basically, when you have so many children(7-12) the chances of having one different from the rest increases. So if they end up with a slower and/or rebellious child they'll always blame it on the vaccination and every child after that won't be vaccinated. Oh, and I know all of this from first hand experience because, for some very odd reason, might have something to do with spending the last half of my life in Alabama, most of my friend's belong to one Evangelical group or another. Not all of them are bad, but most of them are pretty terrifying. I saw Jesus Camp stuff first hand, heheheh.

I don't think you understand what evangelical means.

Hah. Okay. I'm sure I don't. Despite the fact that all of the Southern Baptist and Pentecostal churches I went made a point to call themselves Evangelical, I have absolutely no idea what it means. And everyone knows that Evangelical is such a difficult concept to wrap ones mind around. What should I have said? Fundamental Evangelicals? But wouldn't that be an oxymoron? Should have just said Fundamentalist? I think the word "Evangelical" matches up nicely to the stupidity I saw.

Try not to be asinine, thanks.