NationStates Jolt Archive

Sure sounds like it. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6310883.stm)

It's that old Soviet homophobia leaking through...

*Vomits*

Argh, this is a relic from the old Soviet Union.

Argh, this is a relic from the old Soviet Union.

I find it funny that the Soviet Union was ideologically identical on most social issues to the neocons. I wonder what PNAC thinks of that?

I find it funny that the Soviet Union was ideologically identical on most social issues to the neocons. I wonder what PNAC thinks of that?

Ya, collectivization and brutal social repression are TRUE neocon values. :rolleyes:

As for the gay pride parade march, its true that its a terrifying glimmer of the "Police City" of Moscow, but other than that, Bush is against legal marrige of gay couples...I don't recall him pursuing action too ban displays of homosexual pride...

Ya, collectivization and brutal social repression are TRUE neocon values. :rolleyes:

No, not Stalinists. I'm talking the party types of the Brezhnev era and beyond.

I find it funny that the Soviet Union was ideologically identical on most social issues to the neocons. I wonder what PNAC thinks of that?

They would probably alienate themselves by emphasizing the economic differences between the Soviets and them , as well as the differences between their pro-democratic ideals and the Soviet's one party oligarchy. Anyway you slice it, though, the Neo-cons and the Soviets had a lot in common in regards to social issues.

No, not Stalinists. I'm talking the party types of the Brezhnev era and beyond.

Erm, Brezhnev was pretty much soft core stalinism....Not really seeing neocon policy relation...

Erm, Brezhnev was pretty much soft core stalinism....Not really seeing neocon policy relation...

Social authoritarianism. Other than that, they're miles apart, but that's what the focus of my point is.

I hereby ban the mayor of Moscow from Riverside County, California and will make sure that if he visits here he gets his ass booted back out.

Go through Nevada, ya jerk. :upyours:

Ya, collectivization and brutal social repression are TRUE neocon values. :rolleyes:

no no, true neocon values are things like "compassionate conservativism".

Which is pretty much the same thing.

Blaming Russian homophobia on the Soviet Union is like blaming Russian anti-Semitism on the Soviet Union.

The march last year was pretty ugly, good reason for not doing it this time, but if not now, when? The problem is not going to go away unless it is challenged directly.

Blaming Russian homophobia on the Soviet Union is like blaming Russian anti-Semitism on the Soviet Union.

Indeed, but blaming Soviet state-endorsed homophobia is like blaming the Soviet state for Soviet state-endorsed homophobia.

Blaming Russian homophobia on the Soviet Union is like blaming Russian anti-Semitism on the Soviet Union.

Both of which were just as rampant during Soviet rule, although to be fair, they were before Soviet rule, too.

they were before Soviet rule, too.

That was my point.

i may be missing something, but when did president Bush prevent a homosexual parade?

or any march of any kind?

anything just to bash bush?

i may be missing something, but when did president Bush prevent a homosexual parade?

or any march of any kind?

anything just to bash bush?

this one isn't Bush himself, but Attorney General John Ashcroft, who Bush has championed (delegate to the UN, for example)
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2003/06/07/MN243223.DTL

When he used the word 'satanic' to describe it, he lost all respect.

Both of which were just as rampant during Soviet rule, although to be fair, they were before Soviet rule, too.

Ahem.

Russian anti-semitism several hundred years, before Communism was even an idea. It, in fact, came to Russia via Europe 'proper' and the Eastern Romans.

The homophobia is a bit newer, I beleive that Russia had a rather large number of homosexuals up until relativly recently, the late 19th century.

The Commies certainly acted on those tendancies more than their Tsarist counterparts, but thats another matter. And calling the Soviet Union 'anti-semetic' requires a clear definition of anti-semite. They seemed to be more of the 'dont-want-semites-here' sort, after their support of Israel, y'know?

...Bush is against legal marrige of gay couples...I don't recall him pursuing action too ban displays of homosexual pride...

Somehow I doubt he has the guts to do that. The bad press alone would keep him from even trying.

Then again...

Nah. I'm sure that arsehole Kaczyński is closer.

He's old. So are the priests. Eventually, they will die and be replaced by people that are more liberal. The new will replace the old, whether these idiots like it or not.

this one isn't Bush himself, but Attorney General John Ashcroft, who Bush has championed (delegate to the UN, for example)
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2003/06/07/MN243223.DTL

alright and how does this tie in with the whole "this mayor thinks like bush because he bans a gay parade"

alright and how does this tie in with the whole "this mayor thinks like bush because he bans a gay parade"

String theory.

alright and how does this tie in with the whole "this mayor thinks like bush because he bans a gay parade"

oh come on - Bush's whole administration is aggressively anti-gay, and as the article i posted shows, the Attorney-General, the man whose job is to defend and promote civil liberties, is actively neglecting his duties to pursue a personal agenda
the Bushcroft regime is ideologically opposed to gay rights, as is the mayor in the original post, who's also pursuing a personal anti-gay agenda in banning the march

don't be so blind

oh come on - Bush's whole administration is aggressively anti-gay, and as the article i posted shows, the Attorney-General, the man whose job is to defend and promote civil liberties, is actively neglecting his duties to pursue a personal agenda
the Bushcroft regime is ideologically opposed to gay rights, as is the mayor in the original post, who's also pursuing a personal anti-gay agenda in banning the march

don't be so blind

Wait...the Bush administration is aggressively anti-gay? Um, no. That whole being aggressively anti-gay thing would be the United States legal system and culture in general until pretty recently.

The only real anti-gay thing the Bush administration is doing is stupidly supporting the Federal Marriage Amendment to keep the status quo of homosexual marriages not being recognized. Which is just keeping a small and very symbolic part of the status quo, not being actively anti-gay. And I'd like to rip into him on national television for that bit of attempted desecration of the Constitution, but that's for another thread.

Bush isn't hardline enough to use a term like "Satanic". Homophobia is not limited to neocons either.

Was I the one who was somewhat worried by the caption on one of the pictures?

Luzhkov: Gay propaganda "unacceptable"

Note that it's "unacceptable" in quotes, not Gay Propaganda.

The Russian ruling class are not a very nice set of people. Never have been, never will be.

Wait...the Bush administration is aggressively anti-gay? Um, no. That whole being aggressively anti-gay thing would be the United States legal system and culture in general until pretty recently.

The only real anti-gay thing the Bush administration is doing is stupidly supporting the Federal Marriage Amendment to keep the status quo of homosexual marriages not being recognized. Which is just keeping a small and very symbolic part of the status quo, not being actively anti-gay. And I'd like to rip into him on national television for that bit of attempted desecration of the Constitution, but that's for another thread.

the 'only' thing? and John Asscrack's blatant discrimination doesn't count? he's only Attorney-General after all...

how about this one:
http://www.hrw.org/english/docs/2006/01/25/iran12535.htm
“This vote is an aggressive assault by the U.S. government on the right of sexual minorities to be heard,” said Scott Long, director of the LGBT rights program at Human Rights Watch. “It is astonishing that the Bush administration would align itself with Sudan, China, Iran and Zimbabwe in a coalition of the homophobic.”

while i'm at it:
Bush picks anti-gay preacher for AIDS panel
http://www.planetout.com/news/article.html?2006/02/26/1

Bush to speak at anti-gay school
http://archive.salon.com/politics/feature/2000/11/03/gays/index.html

Millions In Federal Funds Handed To Anti-Gay Groups
http://www.365gay.com/Newscon06/02/020906bush.htm

I don't think Bush tried to ban any gay parades. He's no fan of gays, but he's not obsessed like this guy.

righties;
there's a difference between ideological soulmates and people who do the exact same actions. Bush may not have DONE the same thing as the mayor; He does think the same homophobic way as the mayor.

righties;
there's a difference between ideological soulmates and people who do the exact same actions. Bush may not have DONE the same thing as the mayor; He does think the same homophobic way as the mayor.

zigackly

osama ben lauden, and the late sadam hussain, were both "soulmates" of george double ewe, so why sould the mayor of maskva, or any other 'political leader', be such a big surprise to be?

=^^=
.../\...

*Vomits*

Argh, this is a relic from the old Soviet Union.

Soviet? You ask me, this is typical Russian Orthodox Christianity. Orthodoxy has been, and remains, the most backwards of the Christian churches.

the 'only' thing? and John Asscrack's blatant discrimination doesn't count? he's only Attorney-General after all...

how about this one:
http://www.hrw.org/english/docs/2006/01/25/iran12535.htm
“This vote is an aggressive assault by the U.S. government on the right of sexual minorities to be heard,” said Scott Long, director of the LGBT rights program at Human Rights Watch. “It is astonishing that the Bush administration would align itself with Sudan, China, Iran and Zimbabwe in a coalition of the homophobic.”

So because the US didn't support the group applying for consultancy status at the UN, they're being anti-gay? And I suppose if the Bush administration didn't support PETA being granted consultancy status, we can conclude that they are anti-animal. Yeah, right.

while i'm at it:
Bush picks anti-gay preacher for AIDS panel
http://www.planetout.com/news/article.html?2006/02/26/1

So we have four qualified professionals and a preacher. Looks to me like he's giving token support to his base in an effort to retain their support, not being anti-gay.

Bush to speak at anti-gay school
http://archive.salon.com/politics/feature/2000/11/03/gays/index.html

He's spoken at the UN as well. So we can conclude that he endorses all the policies and protocols of the UN and that he's anti-war? No, we really can't.

Millions In Federal Funds Handed To Anti-Gay Groups
http://www.365gay.com/Newscon06/02/020906bush.htm

So the fact that he doesn't fund people who are participating in unions that aren't legal means what? Not giving federal funding to those who are not participating in a government-sanctioned union? How very odd, that upholding the law thing.

I don't like the Bush administration, but frankly, the Bush administration is not aggressively anti-gay. What it's doing is upholding an unfair legal tradition and thereby allowing the perpetuation of a long-standing anti-gay trend. Which is bad, yes, and I oppose it. But it ain't aggressive. It's just the same old normal anti-gay nonsense that has become entrenched in American culture.

~snip~
I don't like the Bush administration, but frankly, the Bush administration is not aggressively anti-gay. What it's doing is upholding an unfair legal tradition and thereby allowing the perpetuation of a long-standing anti-gay trend. Which is bad, yes, and I oppose it. But it ain't aggressive. It's just the same old normal anti-gay nonsense that has become entrenched in American culture.

Ah, so you're just nitpicking...

Ah, so you're just nitpicking...

In the interests of clarifying what the problem really is, yes. I like to help folks identify the real problem so they can deal with that instead of attacking a straw man.