NationStates Jolt Archive

I understand why the English do, they have been bitter rivals for several centuries with only a small channel seperating them.

But why do so many Americans hate the french so much? Is it their alleged "liberalism", or do they just find their accents annoying?

It's because they're French. [/English answer]

their refusal to participate in the america's stupid wars.

They just have pompus attitudes in my opinion. They hate everything that isn't French, there's no pleasing them.

Don't be silly. It's not just Americans that hate the French. Everyone does. Damn Frogs.:D

their refusal to participate in the america's stupid wars.

Yeah but thats not the only country that refuses, why single them out?

Yeah but thats not the only country that refuses, why single them out?
usually because they don't know better, otherwise I has no idea.

I understand why the English do, they have been bitter rivals for several centuries with only a small channel seperating them.

But why do so many Americans hate the french so much? Is it their alleged "liberalism", or do they just find their accents annoying?

Most American's are pissed because they wouldn't help us with fighting Iraq, though in my mind it means that the French were warning us that it would be the mistake it turned out to be.

(I have no problem with the French, for awhile I considered joining the French Foreign Legion)

I actually hate the accents. And of course, I find that they act like asses on occasion.

They just have pompus attitudes in my opinion. They hate everything that isn't French, there's no pleasing them.

Thats a very large generalization there.

One word: Mimes

The question would work perfectly turned around too...

Why do so many French hate the Americans?

It may as well he a Love/Hate Relationship...

I actually really like France. They've got amazing architecture, a fascinating history, great food, an interesting culture and a beautiful language.

I understand why the English do, they have been bitter rivals for several centuries with only a small channel seperating them.

But why do so many Americans hate the french so much? Is it their alleged "liberalism", or do they just find their accents annoying?

The better question is why the French hate Americans so much. The distaste is actually far worse on the French side then the American side (which is more of a casual afterthought, really) and it goes back centuries. Long before any of this business with Iraq.

I remember there being a book about the old, mutual hatred. The name eludes me at the moment.

It used to be kinda fun, like a sibling rivalry thing-like we gave each other a hard time but when push came to shove we where okay.

But then the hawks took all the fun out of it and now it's a drag. It's like when your playing video games and two of you are having a pretty good natured smack talking session and then that jock cousin of your walks in with a jersey cut over his belly and cuts in after a loud belch yelling at your buddy, "Huh huh, yeah you suck...FAG!" All of a sudden the air is out of the room and you just sit and play quietly, maybe think about going to get a burger...

I understand why the English do, they have been bitter rivals for several centuries with only a small channel seperating them.

But why do so many Americans hate the french so much? Is it their alleged "liberalism", or do they just find their accents annoying?

Because they seem snobbish. And they're socialists.

Oh, yeah, and something about cheese eating surrender monkeys.

I understand why the English do, they have been bitter rivals for several centuries with only a small channel seperating them.

But why do so many Americans hate the french so much? Is it their alleged "liberalism", or do they just find their accents annoying?

Heh. I don't hate the French, but I do think they have annoying accents.

They fear of a potential frog invasion in America.

The face of evil

http://www.alloccasionperformers.com/images/i-mime.jpg

Americans hate the French, because they hate Americans. This is a fact! FREEDOM FRIES, not French Fries.

Americans secretly wanted their revolution to fail in 1776. So that they could remain British subjects and get to moan about unfair taxation or some other trivial problem. Unfortunately, the French stepped in and won them their independence, and ever since then Americans have felt robbed of the chance to be history's greatest victims.

They just have pompus attitudes in my opinion. They hate everything that isn't French, there's no pleasing them.

Really? I didn't realise that about myself. My "hatred of everything that isn't French" must be why I enjoy travelling to foreign countries so much. :rolleyes:


The better question is why the French hate Americans so much. The distaste is actually far worse on the French side then the American side

No. There's an important difference. A lot of French people tend to make fun of Americans (stereotyped as childish, stupid, fanatical, violent, fat, etc...), but it's not hatred. It's more a matter of finding "American behaviour" (generalised and stereotyped) amusing. On the other hand, from 2003 onwards I've seen examples of visceral, frothing-at-the mouth, ignorant and irrational anti-French hatred coming from some Americans. (Ironically, virtually none of that filtered through to France, so French-bashers were spewing into a vacuum.)

Anti-French propoganda used on U.S. street corners:

http://www.musicweb-international.com/film/2001/July01/French_Connection_1.jpg

The caption is some reads: "The only good Frenchman is a dead Frenchman"

I understand why the English do, they have been bitter rivals for several centuries with only a small channel seperating them.

But why do so many Americans hate the french so much? Is it their alleged "liberalism", or do they just find their accents annoying?It's because the French told the US that their Iraq invasion was and is an error, and they were right. Americans are just too proud to acknowledge or sometimes even recognize their failures as a cultural landscape, as a political system, as a nation. The fact of the matter is that French are generally superior to Americans, actually all Europeans are and almost every other people on the planet, but somehow Americans have singled out the French to direct their ridiculous and baseless mockery at. It's just a reaction of childish defiance in the process of realization of its own shortcoming and that America is in no way the "greatest nation on earth". The French and the other "Old Europe" countries have those very properties of state that the US is so loudly bragging about while failing on every issue: civil liberties, freedom of expression, democracy, working justice systems, good diplomatic relations to foreign countries, and so on and so on...
We Europeans have what Americans want but just cannot grasp. The blissful days when the US was a role model are over and by now the term "Americanization" is used to express all the bad developments in an economic system, a state, or a society, all over the globe. It seems rather that the "the French" is in fact the fantastical outside projection of what Americans hate about themselves.

They just have pompus attitudes in my opinion. They hate everything that isn't French, there's no pleasing them.Correction:
They (Americans) just have pompous attitudes in my opinion. They hate everything that isn't American, there's no pleasing them.
That's why they start economic and military wars: just to please their greed and arrogance. America, thy name is pride.

The question would work perfectly turned around too...

Why do so many French hate the Americans?
The wars that are utterly ridiculous, and yet are still being fought at this point, which they refuse to get involved in?

*coughs* Iraq *coughs*
It may as well he a Love/Hate Relationship...
Well that is indeed true.

"Aha! An eazy shot at ze English - and America will be involved? Fatastique, let'z get involved"

Which afterwards usually turns to :

"Bah! Z'your 'elp waz minimal, and now zou want uz to get in anuzer stupid war? No zank you very much!"



Obviously, being English, I may have been writing the accent in a bit thick there, and it's also a massive generalisation, but seeing as I'm supposed to historically not like the French, and I currently don't like the U.S. much either, I think it'll go unmolested by my British counterparts... *whistles and hopes*

Americans secretly wanted their revolution to fail in 1776. So that they could remain British subjects and get to moan about unfair taxation or some other trivial problem. Unfortunately, the French stepped in and won them their independence, and ever since then Americans have felt robbed of the chance to be history's greatest victims.

The British secretly wanted the Nazi blitzkrieg to succeed in World War 2. So that Britain could be part of the German Empire and get to moan about sauerkrauts or some other trivial problem. Unfortunately, the Americans stepped in and helped to defeat the Nazis, and ever since, the Britons have felt robbed of the chance to be history's greatest...

Thanks, I really got a kick out of that. :p

Some people...don't like America?!:eek:

When did this happen?

Americans secretly wanted their revolution to fail in 1776. So that they could remain British subjects and get to moan about unfair taxation or some other trivial problem. Unfortunately, the French stepped in and won them their independence, and ever since then Americans have felt robbed of the chance to be history's greatest victims.
See also 1812, when Napoleon was distracting us, and the US very nearly lost to the mighty Canadian army :p

Or not, perhaps.

It's because the French told the US that their Iraq invasion was and is an error, and they were right. Americans are just too proud to acknowledge or sometimes even recognize their failures as a cultural landscape, as a political system, as a nation. The fact of the matter is that French are generally superior to Americans, actually all Europeans are and almost every other people on the planet, but somehow Americans have singled out the French to direct their ridiculous and baseless mockery at. It's just a reaction of childish defiance in the process of realization of its own shortcoming and that America is in no way the "greatest nation on earth". The French and the other "Old Europe" countries have those very properties of state that the US is so loudly bragging about while failing on every issue: civil liberties, freedom of expression, democracy, working justice systems, good diplomatic relations to foreign countries, and so on and so on...
We Europeans have what Americans want but just cannot grasp. The blissful days when the US was a role model are over and by now the term "Americanization" is used to express all the bad developments in an economic system, a state, or a society, all over the globe. It seems rather that the "the French" is in fact the imaginary outside projection of what Americans hate about themselves.

Correction:
They (Americans) just have pompous attitudes in my opinion. They hate everything that isn't American, there's no pleasing them.
That's why they start economic and military wars: just to please their greed and arrogance.

Europe is lagging far behind America economically.

And the French were largely responsible for undermining the UN's Oil For Food Program with regards to Iraq.

Mon Dieu, quelle hypocrisie!

I understand why the English do, they have been bitter rivals for several centuries with only a small channel seperating them.

But why do so many Americans hate the french so much? Is it their alleged "liberalism", or do they just find their accents annoying?

I guess they're just jealous, you know?

The British secretly wanted the Nazi blitzkrieg to succeed in World War 2. So that Britain could be part of the German Empire and get to moan about sauerkrauts or some other trivial problem. Unfortunately, the Americans stepped in and helped to defeat the Nazis, and ever since, the Britons have felt robbed of the chance to be history's greatest...

Thanks, I really got a kick out of that. :p
I once tried eating Sauerkraut with fish and chips to see what life would be like if we were conquered by the Germans.

The answer is - it would be great, other than repression and German grammar, which, as anyone who's ever studied the language knows, is a bitch. And lots of other things would be bad. But fish and chips with Sauerkraut would be acceptable.

Being a stupid asshole isn't a French or American problem. That's for humanity as a whole to enjoy.

No. There's an important difference. A lot of French people tend to make fun of Americans (stereotyped as childish, stupid, fanatical, violent, fat, etc...), but it's not hatred. It's more a matter of finding "American behaviour" (generalised and stereotyped) amusing. On the other hand, from 2003 onwards I've seen examples of visceral, frothing-at-the mouth, ignorant and irrational anti-French hatred coming from some Americans. (Ironically, virtually none of that filtered through to France, so French-bashers were spewing into a vacuum.)

That is true to a point, I suppose. The actual French-bashing that does on is very rarely even directed AT the French, but to Americans that find such things amusing. Like a self-indulgent kind of loathing that never amounts to anything. Actual, violently bigoted people are harder to come by then you would think, though. It is somewhat ironic that most Americans are to apathetic to even put much effort into nationalistic hatred anymore. These days it's reduced to late-night comedy jibs and more subtle kind of bias then outright dislike.

Personally, I find nationalized stereotyping to be more repellent then amusing. Saying "Americans are this...," "French are this...," etc, is pretty damn stupid, no matter who you are or who you attack. This particular attitude IS worse with the French who, from my experience, like to alienate people based on pretty shallow reasons. That doesn't mean its a nationalistic trait, a generality, or a stereotype; Just a subjective observation. *shrugs*

I understand why the English do, they have been bitter rivals for several centuries with only a small channel seperating them.

But why do so many Americans hate the french so much? Is it their alleged "liberalism", or do they just find their accents annoying?
Because of the media's portrayal of the French population.

Most Americans, in their lifetime will have never left their state, or, even their city/town, so any 'worldly' experience they have comes from the media, which may or may not present other cultures in a positive light. So, any impressions some Americans have of the French and other cultures may be inaccurate because of the way the media has chosen to display that culture.

Very few Americans actively hate France, but for those of us who follow politics, the Paris leadership have done many things that pissed us off.

1. Dropping out of all NATO commitments, but still demanding NATO protection in case of a Soviet attack.

2. Ignoring the Nuclear Test Ban Treaty.

3. Their actions in French Indochina, which lead directly to the American involvement in Vietnam.

4. What can only be termed terrorist attacks against Greenpeace.

What is sad is that the recent flare-up was not necessary. Le Monde had Today We Are All Americans as its headline after 9/11. Bush managed to piss away all the international support we had.

I personally have nothing against France, and in fact every April 30th I celebrate Cameron Day.

Because of the media's portrayal of the French population.

Most Americans, in their lifetime will have never left their state, or, even their city/town, so any 'worldly' experience they have comes from the media, which may or may not present other cultures in a positive light. So, any impressions some Americans have of the French and other cultures may be inaccurate because of the way the media has chosen to display that culture.

I have been to several countries and now reside in Sicily. So, I'm one of the lucky ones to get out of the states.

Europe is lagging far behind America economically.
Not really. We're not growing as quickly, but our economies are stable, and we don't consume ludicrous amounts of resources, so in the long run we might well be better off.

Also - we beat you hands down in terms of democracy and civil liberties and all that jazz.
And the French were largely responsible for undermining the UN's Oil For Food Program with regards to Iraq.
Had George Bush not actually had a personal feud with Saddam Hussein, there wouldn't have been an Oil For Food Program to start with, now, would there?

I have been to several countries and now reside in Sicily. So, I'm one of the lucky ones to get out of the states.
Why do you have a negative attitude of the French then? I found them to be of a good disposition in general.

Of course, it could be that they feel the Americans have an arrogant view on them, so don't feel the need to go out of their way to make Americans feel at home. Assholery is a two way street.

Not really. We're not growing as quickly, but our economies are stable, and we don't consume ludicrous amounts of resources, so in the long run we might well be better off.

Also - we beat you hands down in terms of democracy and civil liberties and all that jazz.

Had George Bush not actually had a personal feud with Saddam Hussein, there wouldn't have been an Oil For Food Program to start with, now, would there?

Sorry, but Europeans have less, earn less, and live worse than Americans. Also, you have much higher unemployment.

As for civil liberties, I'm not going to pretend I know everything about Europe, but let me throw out a few curveballs for ya-

Can you own a gun in Europe?
Do you have "speech codes" to promote "tolerance and understanding"?
Can you decide how to spend most of your money, instead of the government doing that for you?

1. Dropping out of all NATO commitments, but still demanding NATO protection in case of a Soviet attack.

2. Ignoring the Nuclear Test Ban Treaty.

3. Their actions in French Indochina, which lead directly to the American involvement in Vietnam.

4. What can only be termed terrorist attacks against Greenpeace.
1 - and how much have Americans kept to their NATO commitments after they invaded Iraq?

2 - As oppose to America which has enough nuclear arsenal to fire-bomb the planet several times over? :rolleyes:

3 - Americans didn't HAVE to send in more than a logistic team; they didn't have to do any of that stuff. They chose to make it their war.

4 - What exactly did they do to Greenpeace? (link(s) and proof)

True, it is a two way street. I never said I hated the French, I just wrote what the general feeling is, I love it here in Europe. (I actually don't really want to go back to the states) but don't tell anyone I said that.

The better question is why the French hate Americans so much. The distaste is actually far worse on the French side then the American side (which is more of a casual afterthought, really) and it goes back centuries. Long before any of this business with Iraq.

I remember there being a book about the old, mutual hatred. The name eludes me at the moment.

Right....so the Statue of Liberty was actually a gift from.....?

Right....so the Statue of Liberty was actually a gift from.....?

Aliens

Sorry, but Europeans have less, earn less, and live worse than Americans. Also, you have much higher unemployment.

Are you talking about Sicily or Ireland?
Comparing with the Americans I know privately, I have more, I earn more, and I live a lot better,
And there's less unemployment here than in the USA.


As for civil liberties, I'm not going to pretend I know everything about Europe, but let me throw out a few curveballs for ya-

Can you own a gun in Europe?

Yes.


Do you have "speech codes" to promote "tolerance and understanding"?

No.


Can you decide how to spend most of your money, instead of the government doing that for you?

Yes.

Any more questions?

2 - As oppose to America which has enough nuclear arsenal to fire-bomb the planet several times over? :rolleyes:

= (link(s) and proof)

I believe he said Nuclear Test Ban Treaty. Which means that you can indeed have enough nukes to bomb the world several times over, just as long as you don't test them.

True, it is a two way street. I never said I hated the French, I just wrote what the general feeling is, I love it here in Europe. (I actually don't really want to go back to the states) but don't tell anyone I said that.

Fair enough; I couldn't tell if you were expression your own opinion or what. Generally worded statements can be hard to interpret correctly.

Fair enough; I couldn't tell if you were expression your own opinion or what. Generally worded statements can be hard to interpret correctly.

I understand

Me being British I can say that us Europeans are very racist to you Americans, and that probably started the American hatred to the French.

Sorry, but Europeans have less, earn less, and live worse than Americans. Also, you have much higher unemployment.

As for civil liberties, I'm not going to pretend I know everything about Europe, but let me throw out a few curveballs for ya-

Can you own a gun in Europe?
Do you have "speech codes" to promote "tolerance and understanding"?
Can you decide how to spend most of your money, instead of the government doing that for you?

Curveballs? LOL

Own Guns - Yes

'Speech Codes' - No...we use something called politeness

Spend your money - Yes.

Your point is?

Me being British I can say that us Europeans are very racist to you Americans, and that probably started the American hatred to the French.

When I first came here to Sicily I found the Italians to be frustrating to deal with. But, it wasn't anything that they were doing wrong, their culture is just different. Seeing another culture up close allowed me to see my own culture in a new light. Now, it's no big deal for me to see to Italian guys doing that kiss greeting or having them fly past me on the road.

If more people were exposed to different cultures than there would be less hate and misunderstanding. Not just Americans seeing others, but others as well.

Me being British I can say that us Europeans are very racist to you Americans, and that probably started the American hatred to the French.

Speak for yourself. You definitely don't speak for all of us Europeans.

What a most excellent question! I'll be interested to hear the answer.

Especially because this:
their refusal to participate in the america's stupid wars.
doesn't really cut it as an answer. As Hydesland already said, they weren't the only ones, so why only hate the French? Why not hate the Germans, too, and turn Bratwurst and Oktoberfest into Liberty Sausage and Freedomfest?

And as for the "Eh, it's just good-natured ribbing by both sides", Ariddia is right:
No. There's an important difference. A lot of French people tend to make fun of Americans (stereotyped as childish, stupid, fanatical, violent, fat, etc...), but it's not hatred. It's more a matter of finding "American behaviour" (generalised and stereotyped) amusing. On the other hand, from 2003 onwards I've seen examples of visceral, frothing-at-the mouth, ignorant and irrational anti-French hatred coming from some Americans.

I've said this before on here, but NSG is actually the first place where I've ever heard the "cheese-eating surrender monkey" crap. Ever. I have been living next to France all my life, yet it took me 32 years to ever come across this whole " France always surrenders, let's make another bad joke about it."
The fuck?

I actually asked my dad a few weeks ago if he, in his 65 years, has ever heard about any French reputation for being less than "brave" in wars and surrendering at the slightest provocation. He hadn't and was incredulous about the suggestion and about the extent of American mockery and hatred of the French.

Americans secretly wanted their revolution to fail in 1776. So that they could remain British subjects and get to moan about unfair taxation or some other trivial problem. Unfortunately, the French stepped in and won them their independence, and ever since then Americans have felt robbed of the chance to be history's greatest victims. Awesome. :p

Sorry, but Europeans have less, earn less, and live worse than Americans. Also, you have much higher unemployment.
Massive generalisation right there, since it varies from state to state in the US and country to country in the EU.

If I lived in, say, Armenia, my life would be exceptionally poor. But on the other hand, if I lived in one of the more crapulent villages down the arsecrack otherwise known as the Midwest, my life would also be fairly rubbish, albeit less so.

Your national average unemployment is, IIRC, about 4.7%. Fair enough, that's lower than the European average. On the other hand, we get better unemployment benefits, and almost every European nation has universal healthcare, too.

You also have a life expectancy only 48th on the world rankings - there are several European rankings above that statistic - for example, the UK, Sweden, Austria and Iceland.

All in all, the pros and cons of life in the US and Europe are rather different. We live longer, you prosper slightly more. That's about all, really.
Can you own a gun in Europe?
In some lands, yes, in others, no. It's one of those things that really does vary. For example, myself in England, I can't go out and buy a rifle down at the shops for anything other than sporting equipment, and even then I'd have people back-checking my records and such.

On the other hand, were I Swiss, I'd be given an assault rifle and I'd have to keep it well maintained, as well as probably owning a few pistols just for the fun of it all.
Do you have "speech codes" to promote "tolerance and understanding"?
Pardon?

Do you mean "do we use euphamisms about things?"

If so - not really. I think we're supposed to and such, but generally, people call a spade a spade, so to speak.
Can you decide how to spend most of your money, instead of the government doing that for you?
Yes...



And now a question towards you -

How fair is your electoral system?
What's the poverty rate (on average) in the US at the moment?
What are the overall wealth demographics in the US at the moment?

I felt like writing a nice, big post on why the French suck, but I think Arthur's Hall says it far more eloquently than I could.

http://www.arthurshall.com/x_france.shtml

Here's the highlights:
Racism (anti-Muslim laws)
Socialism (forget a free market)
Weak military (they're French, 'nuff said)
Economic stagnation (that's what you get for being socialist)
Continued nuke testing (talk about phallic insecurity)
Failure to comply with the North Atlantic Treaty
Failure to allow anything to get done in the UN (UN action against Saddam might have deposed him without a war, but France didn't want to lose their markets in Iraq, which they only had because the US was not doing business with Iraq)
And so much more!

Sorry, but Europeans have less, earn less, and live worse than Americans. Also, you have much higher unemployment.That's not true. The average American lives far worse than the average French, let alone German. Although Germans like to whine about how bad they've got it, the overall living standard is much higher than in the US. And there are no Germans living in trailers or in houses made of wallboard.

As for civil liberties, I'm not going to pretend I know everything about Europe, but let me throw out a few curveballs for ya-Well, we don't have stupid discussions about ID and sex ed in schools, and while we promote free speech we also go against those who abuse it, unlike the US does.

Can you own a gun in Europe?If you have a license for it, of course.
Do you have "speech codes" to promote "tolerance and understanding"?What's a speech code? In Europe we name the problems and don't hide behind political correctness.
Can you decide how to spend most of your money, instead of the government doing that for you?Of course. However, we still pay taxes. What's your point, really?

Me being British I can say that us Europeans are very racist to you Americans, and that probably started the American hatred to the French.
o.O "Racist"? How would that work?

There has never (at least in peace times) been more than good-natured stereotyping and poking fun from both sides, as is between most countries, too.
Coexisting with that, there has always been respect and admiration for various traits/successes/whatever that the respective other side had and your own side didn't, as is between most countries.

As has been said above, the US, at a mindboggling rate, has managed to piss away international goodwill that was at a peak after 9/11, when in my city alone there were a quarter million people filling the streets in a memorial service to the victims of the attacks.

One year later, we were back on the streets to protest against the impending war in Iraq.

I felt like writing a nice, big post on why the French suck, but I think Arthur's Hall says it far more eloquently than I could.

http://www.arthurshall.com/x_france.shtml

Here's the highlights:
Racism (anti-Muslim laws)
Socialism (forget a free market)
Weak military (they're French, 'nuff said)
Economic stagnation (that's what you get for being socialist)
Continued nuke testing (talk about phallic insecurity)
Failure to comply with the North Atlantic Treaty
Failure to allow anything to get done in the UN (UN action against Saddam might have deposed him without a war, but France didn't want to lose their markets in Iraq, which they only had because the US was not doing business with Iraq)
And so much more!
Even if that's what you think, you haven't answered the question of the OP, which wasn't "Why do the French suck?" but "Why do so many Americans hate the French?".

So - you're saying you hate every country that doesn't go by your standards of what makes a good country?

Oh, great. Anti-French trollbait, and I see it's already worked for some.

It derives from back in 1799 (I think...), when we came to within a vote or so of going to war with them. (I'm talking from the American Standpoint).


THe bastards raided our shipping vessels!

Oh, great. Anti-French trollbait, and I see it's already worked for some.
How's this thread trollbait?

If every thread that gets replies you (general you) don't like is "trollbait" then NSG could be closed.

How's this thread trollbait?

It's a thread designed to attract either people ragging on France or people ragging on those ragging on France and to make both sides list the trolliness they use to do so.

It's a thread designed to attract either people ragging on France or people ragging on those ragging on France and to make both sides list the trolliness they use to do so.
I don't see it. It's a question I've been wondering about for quite some time now, one that is not only irritating on a personal level but may yet come to be significant on a global scale if we're supremely unlucky, and I don't exactly think this thing has devolved into trollishness so far.

I felt like writing a nice, big post on why the French suck, but I think Arthur's Hall says it far more eloquently than I could.
And I'd love to make a really eloquent anti-US post, but I'll actually just brutalise what you've nicely posted!

Here's the highlights:
Racism (anti-Muslim laws) (this actually goes for the US, too - profiling at airports etc.)
The rich get richer (forget the woes of the poor!)
Overuse of the military as a way to get out of problems (Iraq, 'nuff said)
Economic instability (that's what you get for overstretching yourself)
Vast overspending on the military (talk about phallic insecurity)
Failure to comply with the Geneva Convention
Failure to allow anything to get done in the UN (82 vetoes vs. France's 18)
And so much more!

I don't see it.

Just you wait. The rudiments are already there.

Even if that's what you think, you haven't answered the question of the OP, which wasn't "Why do the French suck?" but "Why do so many Americans hate the French?".

So - you're saying you hate every country that doesn't go by your standards of what makes a good country?

So is racism not a good enough reason to despise them? How about breaking a mutual defense pact that they signed? Or what about blocking just about everything constructive in the UN, rendering it stagnant and ineffective? Testing nuklear weapons underwater, despite the rest of the world ceasing nuklear tests, and despite the environmental dangers of testing in open waters? I don't understand where your incomprehension lies.

So is racism not a good enough reason to despise them? How about breaking a mutual defense pact that they signed? Or what about blocking just about everything constructive in the UN, rendering it stagnant and ineffective? Testing nuklear weapons underwater, despite the rest of the world ceasing nuklear tests, and despite the environmental dangers of testing in open waters? I don't understand where your incomprehension lies.

Voyez-vous, WYTYG?

Just you wait. The rudiments are already there.
Hullo!

Hullo!

Huh?

It's tradition. French-American antagonism reaches back for decades, all the way to de Gaulle pissing us off over everything he did. (Withdrawing from NATO, that stupid war for the Suez Canal, getting us into Vietnam...yes, we blame the French for Vietnam). But it's a good natured hatred. I'd buy a French girl a drink any day, and crack jokes with a Frenchman at any bar.

And, even at that, I'm not a big critic of France, although I think their jobs policies are terrible, and I think that their government really needs to reform its immigration policies. Otherwise, I'm cool with the French, I even feel that Sarkozy seems to be a decent enough chap to be their President, and Jacques Chirac has a great name.

Huh?
I'm just doing my "ragging on those ragging on the French" bit. Y'know, a bit of casual trolling here and there.

The French make the Mirage series fighters. I for one like the French.

Voyez-vous, WYTYG?That's not trolling. That's not even half as bad as the posts you find in most any random political thread.

So is racism not a good enough reason to despise them? How about breaking a mutual defense pact that they signed? Or what about blocking just about everything constructive in the UN, rendering it stagnant and ineffective? Testing nuklear weapons underwater, despite the rest of the world ceasing nuklear tests, and despite the environmental dangers of testing in open waters? I don't understand where your incomprehension lies. It lies in the fact that I honestly don't see the French bashers in the US going around thinking "Those despiccable French! All this shocking racism and the blocking of our beloved UN and their environmentally damaging behaviour! We as Americans can't help but hate anyone who does things like that! And now, in the name of the Rainbow Warrior, let's rename fries!"

I'm just saying.

That's not trolling. That's not even half as bad as the posts you find in most any random political thread.

Auxquelles je ne vous vois pas assister si souvent...

Just sayin'.

Because the french get short and smart guys to lead them. We get tall and stupid guys.

That's not trolling. That's not even half as bad as the posts you find in most any random political thread.

It lies in the fact that I honestly don't see the French bashers in the US going around thinking "Those despiccable French! All this shocking racism and the blocking of our beloved UN and their environmentally damaging behaviour! We as Americans can't help but hate anyone who does things like that! And now, in the name of the Rainbow Warrior, let's rename fries!"

I'm just saying.

Quality.

I'd love to make a rebuttal, cuz it's just so easy!

Here's the highlights:
Racism (anti-Muslim laws) (this actually goes for the US, too - profiling at airports etc.)(When you consider Muslims are the ones trying to kill us, it makes sense. Compared to France's pervasive discrimination against Muslims we don't sound so bad. "Those who live there say that when they go for a job, as soon as they give their name as "Mamadou" and say they live in Clichy-sous-Bois, they are immediately told that the vacancy has been taken." quoted from Wikipedia's article on the 2005 riots.)
The smart get richer (Forget the woes of the poor, they can dig themselves out. Giving them handouts makes them reliant on welfare. We don't need to tax people who make smart decisions to pay for those who make poor ones.)
Use of the military as an alternative solution (We tried economic sanctions, but France went ahead and did business with them anyways!)
Economic instability (instability > stagnation. It's better to lurch forward than to slowly slip backward)
Vast spending on the military (Someone's gotta have a dick, might as well be us. When the alternative is to leave someone like Saddam in power, military action is not unjustified.)
Failure to comply with the Geneva Convention (The actions of one or a few people aren't representative of the entire country. Our government didn't say 'go torture these people'. Saying those prisoners weren't protected by the Geneva Convention was them trying to cover their butts. The supreme court ruled that they are covered by it, and that's that. France's flagrant disregard for the North Atlantic Treaty, however, is inexcusable.)

My Uncle goes to the church of that dude who thought of "freedom fries".

same reason the english do, but with less historical 'justification'.... blind nationalistic ignorance. fucking xenophobes, ought to be deported.

Auxquelles je ne vous vois pas assister si souvent...

Just sayin'.So because I don't usually post much in political threads I shouldn't post here? And what's with the "assist"? I already told you I don't see how this is a trollbait subject per se.

Hell, I would LOVE to get an answer to the OPs question. If only to go 10 pages without one, maybe then the naysayers would see that the "cheese-eating surrender monkey" jokes are neither funny nor as "goodnatured" as they'd like to make them out.

Oh, great. Anti-French trollbait, and I see it's already worked for some.

No this question has genuinely been in my head for a few days and I can't deduce any satisfying explenation for it.

Oh, I must not forget my loathing for the French student who lived on my floor freshman year. He had multiple strikes levied against him:

1.) He rarely showered, no more than once per week, always just before the weekend. During the week he really smelled rank.
2.) He got way too much ass. He'd have his door open, and some nitwit ditz would show up, and he'd call her over with his accent, and melt her heart. He'd have her in bed in ten minutes or less, all because of his accent.
3.) Smoking. He and the other French students would stand underneath my room window at 3 a.m. and smoke those really rank Gaulloises cigarettes and talk extremely loudly. Ugh.
4.) Flaunting his gigantic keg of Heineken. That one really pissed me off. He put it in his door and we all wanted to drink it, but he wouldn't share. It was twisted.

None of this is to be held against the French, but against the Frenchman whom I know the best.

I feel it's entirely due to a shocking lack of imagination.

They are snobby

"Look, Mommy, it's a silly little troll!"

"Where...? Oh! Yes. And do you know why Walther Realized is a troll, Timmy?"

"Because he makes xenophobic generalisations based on false statements and irrational hatred?"

"That's right, Timmy!"

So is racism not a good enough reason to despise them?


I'm racist? That's news to me. There are "anti-Muslim laws" here in France? That's news to me too.


How about breaking a mutual defense pact that they signed?


Stretching back a fair while, aren't you? Do you really want a long list of international treaties and conventions the US has violated, or not ratified? Such as their failure to adhere to the Geneva Conventions, or the fact that the US is the only country in the world (except Somalia, which at the time had no government) to have refused to sign the International Convention on the Rights of Children?

By your logic, you now hate the United States.


Or what about blocking just about everything constructive in the UN, rendering it stagnant and ineffective?


Are you really that ignorant, or are you just hoping you can get away with the most blatant lies?

The USA has used its veto 28 times over the past two decades in the UN; France used it only twice over the same period, and both of those times it was a joint veto in agreement with the US. France's most recent use of its veto was in 1989, 18 years ago; the US has used its veto 10 times in the 21st century alone. (Source (http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/membship/veto/vetosubj.htm))

Is that why you hate the United States? For "blocking just about everything constructive in the UN, rendering it stagnant and ineffective", whereas France never does?


Testing nuklear weapons underwater, despite the rest of the world ceasing nuklear tests, and despite the environmental dangers of testing in open waters?

That was wrong at the time, but you're 17 years out of date. And if you want to go back in the past, you know the US irradiated the people of its own colonies in the Pacific with its nuclear tests there, something France has not done.

Nice try, ignorant troll. But it helps when don't make a fool of yourself.

1 - and how much have Americans kept to their NATO commitments after they invaded Iraq?
...

...
4 - What exactly did they do to Greenpeace? (link(s) and proof)

1 - probably enough as Eastern European countries generally supported USA in invasion and many have sent units to iraq.

4 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_the_Rainbow_Warrior

their refusal to participate in the america's stupid wars.

Actually, IIRC, didn't america have its fair share of fighting in france's stupid wars? For example...Vietnam???


Anyways, I don't hate the french, I'd like it if they quit with their elitist view on everything, because really, they have nothing to be proud about.

And the only country in Europe I really do hate is Poland. Seriously, fawking pollacks are dumber than a sack a rocks*.

*note, thats not supposed to be offensive to anyone but Swilatia.

Because they seem snobbish. And they're socialists.

I'm much more extreme than a socialist. I'm an anarcho-communist. And I'm American.

Because the french get short and smart guys to lead them. We get tall and stupid guys.

Chirac is over 1m90 tall. ;)


Racism (anti-Muslim laws) (this actually goes for the US, too - profiling at airports etc.)(When you consider Muslims are the ones trying to kill us, it makes sense. Compared to France's pervasive discrimination against Muslims we don't sound so bad. "Those who live there say that when they go for a job, as soon as they give their name as "Mamadou" and say they live in Clichy-sous-Bois, they are immediately told that the vacancy has been taken." quoted from Wikipedia's article on the 2005 riots.)


Oh, puh-lease.

a) That's not a case of "anti-Muslim laws", as you initially claimed. Are you going to retract that false statement?

b) There are individual cases of discrimination here, as everywhere. We have laws and anti-discrimination organisations here that deal with such cases, and do so effectively. None of the Muslims I know have ever been subjected to discrimination. But it's easier for you to latch onto one or two such cases if they comfort you in your irrational bigotry, instead of confronting the fact that you're an ignorant, xenophobic bigot.

Leaving aside your perverse economic beliefs, which you're entitled to. While you yammer on about the glories of neoliberalism, I'll continue to enjoy the more comfortable lifestyle, better healthcare and longer life expectancy that I have here in France.


Someone's gotta be a dick, might as well be us.


Yes, well...


Failure to comply with the Geneva Convention (The actions of one or a few people aren't representative of the entire country. Our government didn't say 'go torture these people'. Saying those prisoners weren't protected by the Geneva Convention was them trying to cover their butts. The supreme court ruled that they are covered by it, and that's that.

Your ignorance is starting to give me a headache. The point is that your government refused, as a matter of policy, to be bound by the Geneva Conventions.

They just have pompus attitudes in my opinion. They hate everything that isn't French, there's no pleasing them.
The same is true of Americans, except that they're slightly less conscious of their pomposity.

(I have no problem with the French, for awhile I considered joining the French Foreign Legion)
*looks at your sig*

What, and fight wars for the French bourgeoisie?

The question would work perfectly turned around too...

Why do so many French hate the Americans?

Because they resemble each other so much, probably.

Americans are just too proud to acknowledge or sometimes even recognize their failures as a cultural landscape, as a political system, as a nation.

That's why they start economic and military wars: just to please their greed and arrogance. America, thy name is pride.
I agree with these parts of your post. Americans need more humility, as do the French, but especially Americans.


And the French were largely responsible for undermining the UN's Oil For Food Program with regards to Iraq.
Right, so France is responsible for the Iraq war. :rolleyes:

Being a stupid asshole isn't a French or American problem. That's for humanity as a whole to enjoy.
No, in their cases it is most definitely particular to being of a nation with a big ego and imperial pretensions.

Remember, while American meddling in South America is more widespread, France continues to maintain a colony there.

I have been to several countries and now reside in Sicily. So, I'm one of the lucky ones to get out of the states.
NAS Sigonella, I presume? You probably have more knowledge than most Americans but you haven't really experienced these countries if you've always been cloistered with other Americans.

Sorry, but Europeans have less, earn less, and live worse than Americans. Also, you have much higher unemployment.
I agree that unemployment is a problem more here, but I'm pretty sure we don't live worse. We have less because we want less. Even people with the money to afford all that Americans indulge in tend to do so less. So whoop-dee-doo, America is hedonistic, I'm so jealous. :rolleyes:

As for civil liberties, I'm not going to pretend I know everything about Europe, but let me throw out a few curveballs for ya-

Can you own a gun in Europe?
Do you have "speech codes" to promote "tolerance and understanding"?
Can you decide how to spend most of your money, instead of the government doing that for you?
In short; yes, no and yes.

Another common American (I'm guessing you lean conservative?) delusion: that Europe is the reality of what liberals want in America.

1 - and how much have Americans kept to their NATO commitments after they invaded Iraq?

2 - As oppose to America which has enough nuclear arsenal to fire-bomb the planet several times over? :rolleyes:

3 - Americans didn't HAVE to send in more than a logistic team; they didn't have to do any of that stuff. They chose to make it their war.

4 - What exactly did they do to Greenpeace? (link(s) and proof)
1. You seem to be thinking of the UN.
2. That means nothing in terms of the law.
3. yes
4. They bombed the Rainbow Warrior in 1985.

One thing that strongly annoys me about some Americans that they seem to think that all Europe is the same. Even worse, they seem to think that all Europe(except UK) is like France. In reality there are like 30-40 different countries in Europe.

They have a food that is an ENGORGED GOOSE LIVER.

That's not my complaint. My complaint is HOW THE HELL DID THEY FIGURE OUT THAT ENGORGED GOOSE LIVER IS GOOD?

They have a food that is an ENGORGED GOOSE LIVER.

That's not my complaint. My complaint is HOW THE HELL DID THEY FIGURE OUT THAT ENGORGED GOOSE LIVER IS GOOD?

That's one of many "discovery" questions.
"How did man discover bread?"
"How did man discover acupuncture?"
and so on.

Compared to France's pervasive discrimination against Muslims we don't sound so bad. "Those who live there say that when they go for a job, as soon as they give their name as "Mamadou" and say they live in Clichy-sous-Bois, they are immediately told that the vacancy has been taken." quoted from Wikipedia's article on the 2005 riots.)Oh my God, I only saw that now. You gotta be kidding me! In books and classes about American inner cities I can't even tell you how often I came across lines like "Whenever you go to apply for a job, even at McDonald's, as soon as you give them your address you see in their faces that they will throw your file away as soon as you're out the door because you're from the projects."

So because I don't usually post much in political threads I shouldn't post here?

That's not what I said at all.

And what's with the "assist"? I already told you I don't see how this is a trollbait subject per se.

"Assister à" in French just means "participate/be at".

Oh my God, I only saw that now. You gotta be kidding me! In books and classes about American inner cities I can't even tell you how often I came across lines like "Whenever you go to apply for a job, even at McDonald's, as soon as you give them your address you see in their faces that they will throw your file away as soon as you're out the door because you're from the projects."

Bingo. Second class citizens...etc etc etc

"Assister à" in French just means "participate/be at".Ack, I was afraid it did after I posted that. >.< My French is le suck. :(

That's not what I said at all. What did you say, then?
If you're saying I don't know what I'm talking about re. the trollishness because I hardly ever post in the political threads I mentioned, I'll have you know that just because I'm not posting doesn't mean I'm not reading. I'm a rather masterful and well-informed lurker. ;)

I like the french in general, though some individual people might not be so likeable. :)

As a group (I, of course, exempt individuals) they treat Americans with disdain, even contempt. Then they hypocritically turn around and do the very things for which they criticize the Americans. Why shouldn't we dislike them?

Ack, I was afraid it did after I posted that. >.< My French is le suck. :(

So, have a nap.

What did you say, then?

I was putting your ability to recognise a subtle or at least less apparent troll into question. Unfortunately, I've lost interest in doing so by now, so "laissons tomber, hein"?

As a group (I, of course, exempt individuals) they treat Americans with disdain, even contempt.

Which separates them from other peoples how exactly?

Which separates them from other peoples how exactly?

Thank-you for making me smile, Fass.

So, have a nap. Napping helps to improve my French? Why didn't you say so years ago? :(

I was putting your ability to recognise a subtle or at least less apparent troll into question. Unfortunately, I've lost interest in doing so by now, so "laissons tomber, hein"? Fortunately, I presciently edited my post to accomodate this reply of yours. And d'accord.

But why do so many Americans hate the french so much? Is it their alleged "liberalism", or do they just find their accents annoying?

I love the French! They are delicious!


But all seriousness aside, I think it comes from the perceived arrogance and perceived elitist behavior.

I have nothing against the French. I love France, and all the French people I know are awesome.

But my cousin got spat upon when she went to France.

Napping helps to improve my French? Why didn't you say so years ago? :(

I was making a "le [insert adjective here]" reference to this (http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/end.php).

Here's the highlights:
Racism (anti-Muslim laws) (this actually goes for the US, too - profiling at airports etc.)(When you consider Muslims are the ones trying to kill us, it makes sense.
I'm sure French people think the same way and you're all wrong anyway.

The rich get richer (Forget the woes of the poor, they can dig themselves out. Giving them handouts makes them reliant on welfare. We don't need to tax people who make smart decisions to pay for those who make poor ones.)
Arcane economic theory.

Use of the military as an alternative solution (We tried economic sanctions,)
O RLY?

Economic instability (instability > stagnation. It's better to lurch forward than to slowly slip backward)
Probably are right here, but this doesn't go for all of Europe.

Vast spending on the military (Someone's gotta have a dick, might as well be us. When the alternative is to leave someone like Saddam in power, military action is not unjustified.)
That's no excuse. Testosterone is no reason to support a particular policy. Peace is better. "Removing Saddam" may sound good (four years ago), but now that we have the mess that is Iraq, it's hard to see what would have been so awful about not starting that war.

Failure to comply with the Geneva Convention (The actions of one or a few people aren't representative of the entire country. Our government didn't say 'go torture these people'.)
Rendition flights. America is unable to morally rise above torture, and America's people are unable to morally rise above supporting torture.

Vast spending on the military (Someone's gotta have a dick, might as well be us. When the alternative is to leave someone like Saddam in power, military action is not unjustified.)

It takes a dick NOT to want a military.

But my cousin got spat upon when she went to France.

That's a gesture of wishing someone good luck.

As a group (I, of course, exempt individuals) they treat Americans with disdain, even contempt. Then they hypocritically turn around and do the very things for which they criticize the Americans. Why shouldn't we dislike them?

You forgot that they do that everyone....even themselves (Parisians v everyone else...)

That's a gesture of wishing someone good luck.

She didn't take it in stride...

That's a gesture of wishing someone good luck.That's true.

I was attending a football tournament in France when I was younger, and the Frenchmen spat on me and my team a lot. I have never seen such sportsmanship since. It takes a lot to continuously wish well to your opponent.

I was making a "le [insert adjective here]" reference to this (http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/end.php).
As dearly as I love that thing, there is still no way anyone would've caught that reference.

It takes a dick NOT to want a military.

Really? I think you need to really think about that statement...

Besides the large number of religionists who are do not see the point of a military...the amount of effort and money that goes into maintaining a military could be used elsewhere...like cancer or AIDS cures...or preventing the 30000 daily deaths of children from starvation, malnutrition and disease..

It might be impossible but it does not mean the people who believe this are dicks.

Some could say that you are dick for supporting the means to kill your own species...

I was making a "le [insert adjective here]" reference to this (http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/end.php).

WTF

1.) America was originally a colony of England.
2.) the U.S.A feels that they owe us a debt for "saving they're asses in both World Wars".
3.) French jokes are just funny.

As dearly as I love that thing, there is still no way anyone would've caught that reference.

I guess you're just not Internet-damaged enough.

That's true.

It is, and not just to France. Several more centrally situated European countries have that old custom, to spit after someone to ward off misfortune.

Honestly, its because most of us are mindless sheep blindly following morons the likes of Bill O'Riley. Most people state side understand the rest of the world as much as a toddler understands the laws of thermodynamics. I am an American, borne and bread. I do not hate my country, just the assholes that live here that make it their daily mission to make us look like shit. (*cough* the bush administration *cough* Bill O'Riley *cough* Rednecks *cough* religious zelots *cough*)

I have nothing against the French. I accualy commend the French President for not getting involved regardless of how much shit we gave them. We have no business being there and we had no right to try and bully them into joining us.

Anyways, thats just my two cents, for whatever its worth.

It takes a dick NOT to want a military.
I agree wholeheartedly. He doesn't realise that virtuous restrain from using the military is not appeasement, it is righteous and wise.

Anyways, thats just my two cents, for whatever its worth.
I agree, and I love your name.

Really? I think you need to really think about that statement
You misunderstood him. He meant (I think) that it requires real courage not to want bombs. The military is a penis extension.

You misunderstood him. He meant (I think) that it requires real courage not to want bombs. The military is a penis extension.

Whats the phrase? Lost in translation LOL!

Fair enough...

I'd love to make a rebuttal, cuz it's just so easy!
Yes, and now I will too, although this is getting to be of a frankly ridiculous length!

Racism (anti-Muslim laws) (this actually goes for the US, too - profiling at airports etc.)(When you consider Muslims are the ones trying to kill us, it makes sense.
- 2 things here :

1) The French had a war with Algeria. This is a nation of North African Arabs, and they mostly adhere to Islam (Sunni, if you want to be precise).

The French lost over 18000 soldiers. They have more right to hate Muslims than the US.

Which is still really "none at all", let's be honest.

2) On the other hand, that was entirely their own fault for their needless imperialism and will to control an unstable region. Oh look! It's a parallel!
Compared to France's pervasive discrimination against Muslims we don't sound so bad. "Those who live there say that when they go for a job, as soon as they give their name as "Mamadou" and say they live in Clichy-sous-Bois, they are immediately told that the vacancy has been taken." quoted from Wikipedia's article on the 2005 riots.)
- Replace "Muslims" with "Black people" or indeed "Latin Americans", and replace "2005 riots" with "1992 riots". Oh look. It's almost the same...
The smart get richer (Forget the woes of the poor, they can dig themselves out. Giving them handouts makes them reliant on welfare. We don't need to tax people who make smart decisions to pay for those who make poor ones.)
- It's not just the smart, though, is it?

Would you call Paris Hilton a bastion of intellectual might, for example?

And people usually stay in the social class that they were born into. It doesn't really matter how many smart decisions you make if you've got a shoestring budget to begin with, because the people at the top will continue to get rich nonetheless, which will continue to occur until you get sensible taxes in place so that the poor have a fighting chance of becoming wealthy.
Use of the military as an alternative solution (We tried economic sanctions, but France went ahead and did business with them anyways!)
- Not until after the first Gulf War did the Oil for Food programme even exist, and that was due to the ludicrous sanctions which were costing thousands of Iraqi lives after the conflict.
Economic instability (instability > stagnation. It's better to lurch forward than to slowly slip backward)
- That's great when times are good. Falling on your arse economically, however, is not so good.
Vast spending on the military (Someone's gotta have a dick, might as well be us. When the alternative is to leave someone like Saddam in power, military action is not unjustified.)
- Oh please. He wasn't a threat to anyone but his own countrymen, and he killed far less than 300-odd thousand of his own people in the course of three years, now, didn't he?
Failure to comply with the Geneva Convention (The actions of one or a few people aren't representative of the entire country. Our government didn't say 'go torture these people'. Saying those prisoners weren't protected by the Geneva Convention was them trying to cover their butts. The supreme court ruled that they are covered by it, and that's that.
So basically Gitmo and Abu Graibh, and a whole load of things in Saudi Arabia and Syria are OK becaues the Supreme Court says so?

And if they weren't state-sanctioned, then how come the only people to get in trouble were extremely low on the chain of command, and why did they get very, very short sentences?
France's flagrant disregard for the North Atlantic Treaty, however, is inexcusable.)

Not really, because it didn't involve any actual harm done to anything at all. Unlike torturing people, or the whole Fallujah business. That's what's really inexcusable.

I understand why the English do, they have been bitter rivals for several centuries with only a small channel seperating them.

But why do so many Americans hate the french so much? Is it their alleged "liberalism", or do they just find their accents annoying?

I don't hate the French. The individual French people I have met are very nice. We owe quite a bit to the Lafayette and others as well.

I hate some of the hypocrisy that comes from that corner of the world, especially regarding the Middle East.

I wonder why people are continually surprised that we rib the French when the US was originally a British colony, and when we hear our Canadian brethren grumbling about their French-Canadians.

;) Mountains out of molehills?

I hate some of the hypocrisy that comes from that corner of the world, especially regarding the Middle East.

I guess it must seem like that but I think many Europeans have come to terms with their colonial past. Yes we rag on the US but don't think that we are not aware of our past.

At the end of the day Europe and the US are responsible for a load of crap. And that sucks because, barring the nutcases, most people just want to get along.

I actually hate the accents. And of course, I find that they act like asses on occasion.
There are allot of americans who are asses and a ton of people here with annoying accents (a.k.a. the South)

I understand why the English do, they have been bitter rivals for several centuries with only a small channel seperating them.

But why do so many Americans hate the french so much? Is it their alleged "liberalism", or do they just find their accents annoying?

... I don't hate the French. I have no reason to hate the French.

I guess the reason is the Belgian fries and the statue of Liberty.

Joona

I understand why the English do, they have been bitter rivals for several centuries with only a small channel seperating them.

But why do so many Americans hate the french so much? Is it their alleged "liberalism", or do they just find their accents annoying?
Answer: "We" don't.

Surprised? There hasn't even been much significant widespread anti-France propaganda in America until the Iraq invasion. I don't hate French people, and nor do numerous Americans of less dogmatically nationalist persuasion.

France has something of a unique image for the US; even now, with it being fashionable in some circles to bash France, the US still looks up to France collectively in a number of ways. Claim a bottle of wine is a "product of France" when it isn't really a French wine can let you sell it for about 40% more per bottle, for example.

Your average American hates the French for the same reason he hates everything else he hates -- because it isn't himself.

I understand why the English do, they have been bitter rivals for several centuries with only a small channel seperating them.

But why do so many Americans hate the french so much? Is it their alleged "liberalism", or do they just find their accents annoying?

Guess what? Most don't. There is the occasional surrender joke; the no bathing joke. But, the French have thrown a few barbs my way. In a friendly haha way. Usually, it's around the fact I can't eat their cheese as I have lactose issues.....

Overall, most people are too busy complaining about their own lives to give the French must thought.

Now the Parisians play a large part in some of the animosity. Many Americans don't understand they are rude to everybody.

My experiences in France are basically the same as everywhere else. Treat people decent and they tend to do the same to you.

It used to be kinda fun, like a sibling rivalry thing-like we gave each other a hard time but when push came to shove we where okay.

But then the hawks took all the fun out of it and now it's a drag. It's like when your playing video games and two of you are having a pretty good natured smack talking session and then that jock cousin of your walks in with a jersey cut over his belly and cuts in after a loud belch yelling at your buddy, "Huh huh, yeah you suck...FAG!" All of a sudden the air is out of the room and you just sit and play quietly, maybe think about going to get a burger...

You are this generation's Proust.

Seriously, good post.

I understand why the English do, they have been bitter rivals for several centuries with only a small channel seperating them.

But why do so many Americans hate the french so much? Is it their alleged "liberalism", or do they just find their accents annoying?
The French caused Vietnam.


Oh, and they put anti freeze in the wine.

I understand why the English do, they have been bitter rivals for several centuries with only a small channel seperating them.

But why do so many Americans hate the french so much? Is it their alleged "liberalism", or do they just find their accents annoying?

latent insecurity about the fact the french more or less won the american revolution for them.

french culture does occasionally tend to come off as rather elitest, I'm afraid.

I know a French guy in one of my uni classes. One day I bumped into him as the grocery store and he had one of those long bread-rolls in his basket. That was so lol.

Your average American hates the French for the same reason he hates everything else he hates -- because it isn't himself.

I largely agree with this. However, I think the same can be said of the French too. From my expireience in France, the French can be real jerks, but Americans can - and usually are - at least as bad. Generalizing anything is tough, because people are individuals with individual habits. Most Americans are rather nice, as are most French, but there are always the rude people that make a stereotype and that's what people remember and hate.

My personal view is that we tend to be pissy about the French because we see alot of ourselves in them. Except for the language difference, I could tell very little difference between Paris and any roughly equivilently sized American city in terms of how the people acted toward "outsiders".

At least, that's how I see it. I have been told I'm insane, though. :)

Oh my God, I only saw that now. You gotta be kidding me! In books and classes about American inner cities I can't even tell you how often I came across lines like "Whenever you go to apply for a job, even at McDonald's, as soon as you give them your address you see in their faces that they will throw your file away as soon as you're out the door because you're from the projects."

Your book is wrong, or you're lying. The only people who work at McDonald's are minorities, at least in inner cities. There are about 5 McDonald's within square 10 block radius of my apartment and I've never seen a white person working at any of them.

Discrimination happens in America, but more and more, it is becoming hard to come by. At our airports, there are random security checks done against people. I've been searched, and I've watched Muslims go through security checks quick and simple.

And Hong Kong has been rated the freest place in the world, and the U.S. is 4th. France isn't even on the top 15, but their economic policies might have something to do with that.

I hate France cuz they hate America and Freedom. And hate is one of the best reasons to hate!

No. There's an important difference. A lot of French people tend to make fun of Americans (stereotyped as childish, stupid, fanatical, violent, fat, etc...), but it's not hatred. It's more a matter of finding "American behaviour" (generalised and stereotyped) amusing. On the other hand, from 2003 onwards I've seen examples of visceral, frothing-at-the mouth, ignorant and irrational anti-French hatred coming from some Americans. (Ironically, virtually none of that filtered through to France, so French-bashers were spewing into a vacuum.)

See, this is amusing to me. My experience is exactly the opposite. A lot of American people tend to make fun of the French, we make jokes based on certain stereotypes (surrendering, bad hygiene, that sort of thing), but there is little real hatred. Just good-natured joking. (Then again, the people I assosiate with are, as a rule, not assholes, or I wouldn't want to be friends with them. So that might bias the results.)

However, even being in France for an extremely short time (several hours in the airport on my way to Denmark to visit family), I got treated terribly. Most of them were content to just make snide remarks about America, and how every single American ever born is an evil, imperialistic bastard who deserves to die. To be honest, the fact that they made the assumption that I spoke no French (because Americans are, every last one of them, too stupid to speak any language but our own) and that they didn't need to keep their voices down.

However, for some, these snide remarks in a language that they apparently assumed that I couldn't understand were not enough. One man, who was standing in a line for coffee in front of me, actually, upon hearing my accent when speaking to my brother, turned around and spat in my face, saying "You American Pig. Why don't you crawl back to you hick country and die of obesity?"
Now, I'm not even overweight. I could deal with gaining a few pounds, so that part was just odd, but it was enough for me to get... rather angry.

Was I just unlucky that day, happening to pass by all the assholes in France? (Quite likely, I suppose, as the other times I've been through there generally aren't quite as bad. People just stick to talking about me behind my back, assuming I can't understand a word they say. Still annoying, but they're only words.) Or is there just some odd thing about the airport that seems to attract the ignorant, prejudiced, idiots?

Discrimination happens in America, but more and more, it is becoming hard to come by.

That is so deluded.

1) The French had a war with Algeria. This is a nation of North African Arabs, and they mostly adhere to Islam (Sunni, if you want to be precise).

The French lost over 18000 soldiers. They have more right to hate Muslims than the US.

Which is still really "none at all", let's be honest.

This is stupid. By your logic, every country in the Europe and the U.S. has a right to hate Germans. We all lose soldiers in wars, and in terms of war deaths, 18,000 is not a lot. Now 3,000 civilian deaths as a result of a terrorist attack? That's shady, and American anger at Wahhibism (Militant Islam) is justified. This anger will fade in time though.

2) On the other hand, that was entirely their own fault for their needless imperialism and will to control an unstable region. Oh look! It's a parallel!

I don't know if you're referring to 9/11 or the Iraq war. If you're referring to 9/11, you're an ass. If you're referring to Iraq; it has nothing to do with our "imperialism." If America was truly imperialist we'd be installing Democracies in every country that didn't agree with us. And have you read the Iraqi constitution? It's hard to get more Muslim-Theocracy/Democracy than that. We are not looking to set up "Little America." I don't agree with Bush's war, but I do think it's a noble thing, albeit possibly futile.

Replace "Muslims" with "Black people" or indeed "Latin Americans", and replace "2005 riots" with "1992 riots". Oh look. It's almost the same...

No. "Black people" get the same rights as everyone else. In fact, we don't even call them "black people" here, because we don't want to offend them in any way. They're "Americans," and they're the same as the rest of us. Have you ever heard of Barrack Obama? It'd be hard to say we discriminate against black people when he IS BLACK and is shaping up to be the next president. Not to mention the huge numbers of black actors and actresses who recieve Awards and accolades, or the fact that "black people" have an entire section of the music industry (which is argubly the most popular amongst American Youth) cornered.

And Latin Americans? Non-Citizens (illegal immigrants) go to our public schools, and attend our colleges. America has been extremely liberal in its dealings with illegal immigrants, and I personally don't think that should change. And realistically, it probably won't.

It's not just the smart, though, is it?

Would you call Paris Hilton a bastion of intellectual might, for example?

I can't believe you even made this comment. First off, she gets most of her wealth from her family, which owns a internationally known hotel chain. Secondly, I don't know why you'd assume she's stupid. She writes her own songs and makes her own music. I don't think she has a 160 IQ, but I don't think she's stupid, especially if she's able to market herself as well as she has.

That's great when times are good. Falling on your arse economically, however, is not so good.

I am waiting for America to fall on its arse economically, but it hasn't happened. We suffered a major terrorist attack, a hurricane that wiped out a major city, and a President who has yet to veto a spending bill, but it's still growing. Let's face it: the American economy, love it or hate it, is pretty resilient.

Oh please. He wasn't a threat to anyone but his own countrymen, and he killed far less than 300-odd thousand of his own people in the course of three years, now, didn't he?

This is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. "Saddam only murders his own people, why should we care?" He killed MILLIONS of Kurds, and tortured women and children. He eliminated government officials in huge room while others watched. Saddam was sick and sadistic. Had he had more power, or arose in Europe, he would have been the next Hitler. While I don't think that going in to remove a dictator is a good sole reason for going to war, saying that Saddam only murdered his own people, so no one else should care is just stupid. If a dictator arises in France and does the same thing, I doubt you'd appreciate an American saying the same thing. And 300,000 in 3 years? Iraqbodycount.com. Civilian deaths, at the most are 60,000 champ, not 300,000.

So basically Gitmo and Abu Graibh, and a whole load of things in Saudi Arabia and Syria are OK becaues the Supreme Court says so?

Abu Graibh was awful and I'm embarassed about it, and so are most Americans. Most Americans are opposed to torture of any kind, in any situation. And high-ranking officials are being punished for it. It is taking a long time because the ACLU (American Civil Liberties Union) are making a case and it's going to be HUGE, so it's taking a while. In the meantime, Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of Defense was forced to resign since he knew about the situation, but did not act on it.

I know this is long, but I just had to reply, because your answers were kind of stupid. But you were also replying to stupid arguments, so that might have something to do with it. Seriously, this France vs. America thing is bullshit. As is any country vs. another. I like mine. I'm a patriot, but these threads bring out the nationalism in all of us, and that's bad. Besides, hasn't anyone seen The Dreamers? An American has lots of sex with a French girl AND a French guy! And Eva Green is NAKED in it!

... A lot of American people tend to make fun of the French, we make jokes based on certain stereotypes (surrendering, bad hygiene, that sort of thing), but there is little real hatred...


I agree completely. I think the whole French-bashing thing is mostly just for laughs... it's also partly a response to their obvious distaste for Americans.

In order to actually hate someone, the target of your hate needs to have some importance in your life. Americans rarely give much thought about the French. They really aren't on our radar at all. The only time they come up is usually as a minor irritant. So we make a few stupid French jokes and then forget they exist for another couple of years.

That is so deluded.

Well, being in Sweden, you should know. We could possibly have a black president next year. And don't forget that large portions of American arts are dominated by black people. Discrimination happens, but things aren't looking so bad, especially with Affirmative Action in place to balance things out.

I did a paper on young black men in the work place a few years ago. Amongst African Americans, crime is going down, along with teen pregnancy, welfare usage, and poverty. Black women are working more and more, and black educated men are pulling in higher paying jobs. The only demographic that is not up to par is the "less educated" young black male demographic. Young black men who don't finish high school tend not to work, whereas their female counterparts do. I wrote my paper a couple years ago however, so that statistic might be rising in the positive direction as well.

When my daughter was in the Navy, they did a Med Cruise. One place they visited was France. She found it quite interesting that, in the countryside, the French were pleasant, friendly and courteous, but in the cities, particularly Paris, they were rude, arrogant and hostile.

My son visited France in connection with his job a couple of years ago and found the French to be unhygenic, rude, arrogant and generally unpleasant. He did find an Irish pub in the area where he could relax with friendly, courteous, pleasant people.

Conclusion - I don't think I would care to visit France. I hear that Italy is wonderful, however.

I understand why the English do, they have been bitter rivals for several centuries with only a small channel seperating them.

But why do so many Americans hate the french so much? Is it their alleged "liberalism", or do they just find their accents annoying?

Maybe its because we saved them from the Germans twice, and they still see us as gun-toting conservative, pro-life, flag waving, money grubbing, air polluting americans.

Thats it. Germany attacks them again, we're not helping.

Well, I know I make fun of the French every once in awhile, but there's never anything mean behind it.

Q: Why are there so many trees in Paris?
A: So the Germans can march in the shade.

Honestly, I respect the hell out of the French military and their population's will to fight. They've just been awful at preparing for wars since the late 1800s it seems. No one I know genuinely hates the French, but it is good for a laugh now and then.

i'm not awair of anyone actualy hating anybody other then politicians pretending to, mostly to con their own populas on every side of every border, mostly into lining their own pockets and letting them get away with murder.

i think the french have perhapse a unique opportunity to get togather with russia, japan and the rest of western europe to put the breaks on america's irresponsibile millitary and economic rampage.

and of course if that happens, well america's guilty conscounse will certainly look to blame everyone but itself, so then i suppose you'll see some actual resentment. but that's a might big if that i see as yet no actual signs of.

one thing i suppose pertains, is any kind of anything halfway fancy in the u.s. is called french, for no good reason that i know of, and so i think perhapse the simple minded here associate france with that.

but as far as i know that's just about the beggining and end of it.

=^^=
.../\...

This is stupid. By your logic, every country in the Europe and the U.S. has a right to hate Germans.
Urmm... a lot of people in Europe and the US still do have an irrational prejudice against the Germans for what has occured in the past...
We all lose soldiers in wars, and in terms of war deaths, 18,000 is not a lot. Now 3,000 civilian deaths as a result of a terrorist attack? That's shady, and American anger at Wahhibism (Militant Islam) is justified. This anger will fade in time though.
The French civilian death toll from the war was also around 3000, with many thousands of terrorist attacks. It's still utterly ridiculous to hate people for that, though.
I don't know if you're referring to 9/11 or the Iraq war. If you're referring to 9/11, you're an ass.
Yes, yes I am an ass. But it really could have been seen a mile away. Pissing away popularity with the Middle East by continuing to support Israel (which isn't exactly a much-loved region) and the Saudi Arabian elite (which has human rights abuses on the level of Iraq) as well as bombing Iraq several times in the 90's, and threatening everyone in the region.

It was always going to end in tears, and it's a tragedy that it occured, but a preventable tragedy at that.
If you're referring to Iraq; it has nothing to do with our "imperialism."
Well quite what was it for then, seeing as the quality of life in Iraq has actually fallen for almost everyone other than the Kurds in Iraq since the invasion?
If America was truly imperialist we'd be installing Democracies in every country that didn't agree with us.
Yes, obviously, with such non-occurances as the Iraqi and Afghanistani governments in the last couple of years alone...
And have you read the Iraqi constitution? It's hard to get more Muslim-Theocracy/Democracy than that.
I can't say that I honestly have, but to be honest, it makes no odds seeing as the government of Iraq controls precisely bugger all. It doesn't even hold the Green Zone, that's essentially American soil which has been lent to them for a bit.
We are not looking to set up "Little America." I don't agree with Bush's war, but I do think it's a noble thing, albeit possibly futile.
Well here's the issue. I don't think it was really to 'liberate the Iraqi people' or any of that - I don't even really think it was for oil.

It's more down to a personal feud that went far, far too far. And here we have the result. Far too many lives lost for both the Iraqis and the Americans and everyone else involved.
No. "Black people" get the same rights as everyone else. In fact, we don't even call them "black people" here, because we don't want to offend them in any way.
On paper they get the same rights and job availability etc.

In truth, they get a median wage on 65% of that of Americans of "European" origin, according to census, and an unemployment rate of 11%, double that of white people (5.5%), as of 2002. (Wiki)
They're "Americans," and they're the same as the rest of us.
I thought the term was "African American", but fair enough.
Have you ever heard of Barrack Obama?
Yes, he's one of the Democrats' presidential candidate-types, isn't he?
It'd be hard to say we discriminate against black people when he IS BLACK and is shaping up to be the next president.
Ermm... I think it's more that the people who wouldn't vote for him on prejudice-based grounds would often vote for the Republicans anyway, so he's not going to be losing votes that way.

Although yes, this is indeed a fantastic development, and I consider him a better candidate than Hillary, due to her fairly conservative social views on some issues (computer games etc. for example).
Not to mention the huge numbers of black actors and actresses who recieve Awards and accolades, or the fact that "black people" have an entire section of the music industry (which is argubly the most popular amongst American Youth) cornered.
Very true indeed - however I don't think that some of the more prejudiced areas of the US (again, sorry for sweeping remarks) such as the Midwest and Deep South are particularly interested in the massive cultural impact of black actors and musicians etc. when historically they have seen them as insuperior essentially due to the colour of their skin.
And Latin Americans? Non-Citizens (illegal immigrants) go to our public schools, and attend our colleges. America has been extremely liberal in its dealings with illegal immigrants, and I personally don't think that should change. And realistically, it probably won't.
Hispanic people in the US have it even worse than black people, in terms of income etc. (albeit not by much).
I can't believe you even made this comment. First off, she gets most of her wealth from her family, which owns a internationally known hotel chain.
Exactly my point. All of her money is coming in from something that she pretty much inherited. Without the financial security from the hotel chain, I can't have seen her being able to take the risk of going into the music industry.
Secondly, I don't know why you'd assume she's stupid. She writes her own songs and makes her own music. I don't think she has a 160 IQ, but I don't think she's stupid, especially if she's able to market herself as well as she has.
2 things -

1) Her music industry is going pretty poorly. Her label has yet to sign anyone in two years, and her first album didn't do particularly well outside of the US.

2) I don't think it's her mind that's marketing her, it's her body, really, and the fact that she's extremely 'glamourous' to younger people.
I am waiting for America to fall on its arse economically, but it hasn't happened.
It's coming sooner or later, due to fuel prices and the huge debts that this "war on terror" crap is creating. It's rather worrying tbh.
We suffered a major terrorist attack
Which wiped 16.05% off the NASDAQ and 14.26% off the NYSE, followed up by a huge loss in 2002 due to a lack of consumer confidence. Which is quite big.
a hurricane that wiped out a major city
Which has done over $150 billion of damage, which has yet to have been fully repaired, as well as creating thousands of unemployed people, and causing less tax money to be available. Again, this is a ticking time bomb.
Let's face it: the American economy, love it or hate it, is pretty resilient.
To a point.

Just hope that people don't start asking for their money back any time soon, and that the Democratic party can somehow end the various wars you're in and increase tax revenue quite a lot.
This is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. "Saddam only murders his own people, why should we care?"
Then you mustn't have heard that many particularly dumb comments, let's be honest. He kept down this sectarian violence business, and he wasn't damaging anything other than his own land.
He killed MILLIONS of Kurds
The Anfal campaign killed anywhere from about 40,000 to 182,000 Kurds. And the upper estimate is by the Kurdish population themselves, which is going to be rather biased, no?

And absolutely none of that is in the millions. Not even the effing Kurdish estimate is in the millions.
and tortured women and children.
This is indeed reprehensible, but doesn't pose a threat to us in any way, shape or forum.
He eliminated government officials in huge room while others watched.
Oh no... truly I feel threatened by this news.
Saddam was sick and sadistic.
These are character flaws, not reasons to go to war.
Had he had more power, or arose in Europe, he would have been the next Hitler.
Sorry, you've just torpedoed your argument with a Godwin right there.
While I don't think that going in to remove a dictator is a good sole reason for going to war, saying that Saddam only murdered his own people, so no one else should care is just stupid.
It's not like I don't actually care, because I genuinely do - but I don't think that we needed to create a power vacuum in the Middle East, nor kill even more people, all for the sake of a single man - because at the moment, Iraq is going nowhere but down in terms of standard of living.
If a dictator arises in France and does the same thing, I doubt you'd appreciate an American saying the same thing.
You're probably right, actually. But on the other hand, France poses even the beginnings of a danger to Europe and the rest of the world (due to nukes, a proper army and territorial location) whereas Iraq didn't really pose a threat to anyone - the Persians were prepared to fight them, and that's that, really. Fine, Kuwait got buggered over, but that's possibly its own fault for not having a proper army when it has such useful resources around.
And 300,000 in 3 years? Iraqbodycount.com. Civilian deaths, at the most are 60,000 champ, not 300,000.
Iraqbodycount.com openly states that its figures are doubtless under the real figure beause "It is likely that many if not most civilian casualties will go unreported by the media." (Wiki) - So I'm going to round their figure up to 100,000 which I'm sure you'll agree is fair enough.

The Iraq health ministry reckons that about 150,000 people have died as of November 2006. I'm going to add 10,000 to this, because at the rate of 100 deaths per day (the average rate at the time and at the moment, too) this makes the figure up to about 160,000.

The Lancet's figure seems pretty ridiculously high, but on the other hand it also takes into account deaths through a now-crappy infrastructure (poor hospital care / water quality etc.), so it's worth including, especially since it's accurate to around 3% iirc. I'm going to leave it at its 655,000 figure, because it could swing either way as in some areas the infrastructure improves and in others it gets worse.

Average that out over the three results and you get about 305000, which seems a fair enough figure, no?
Abu Graibh was awful and I'm embarassed about it, and so are most Americans. Most Americans are opposed to torture of any kind, in any situation. And high-ranking officials are being punished for it.
Well that's cool. At least we're in agreement on this.
It is taking a long time because the ACLU (American Civil Liberties Union) are making a case and it's going to be HUGE, so it's taking a while. In the meantime, Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of Defense was forced to resign since he knew about the situation, but did not act on it.
I don't think that was the only reason he resigned, although it was a part of it - my thoughts are more that this lawsuit will get absolutely crushed if it goes to trial in the manner of all of the other ones - "National Security worries blah blah so we can get off scot free blah blah".
I know this is long, but I just had to reply, because your answers were kind of stupid. But you were also replying to stupid arguments, so that might have something to do with it.
Fair doos, really.
Seriously, this France vs. America thing is bullshit. As is any country vs. another. I like mine. I'm a patriot, but these threads bring out the nationalism in all of us, and that's bad.
Yep, and I'm a complete arsehole when arguing with Americans. Sorry.
Besides, hasn't anyone seen The Dreamers? An American has lots of sex with a French girl AND a French guy! And Eva Green is NAKED in it!
True.

Maybe its because we saved them from the Germans twice, and they still see us as gun-toting conservative, pro-life, flag waving, money grubbing, air polluting americans.

Thats it. Germany attacks them again, we're not helping.
And they saved you in both of your revolutions and you still see them as cowardly, cheese eating, 'liberal', 'socialist', eco-freaks!

Look, I can be intolerant and sweeping like you!

Easy:

French helped us in the Revolution, in a way that essentially won us our freedom from England.

French wanted recognition for that.

We're too stubborn to say that we needed their help, and therefore hate them for just wanting to be thanked.

I mean why not, they're fuckin' french!

See, this is amusing to me. My experience is exactly the opposite. A lot of American people tend to make fun of the French, we make jokes based on certain stereotypes (surrendering, bad hygiene, that sort of thing), but there is little real hatred. Just good-natured joking. (Then again, the people I assosiate with are, as a rule, not assholes, or I wouldn't want to be friends with them. So that might bias the results.)

Actually, I've seen some people directing "I hope they all die like poisoned maggots" levels of hate against the French, but those were typically the ones beating the war drums and hardcore Bushites. Lots of hate there, and very real hate.

On the other side of the coin, the people you met were most likely the French equivalent of the Bushites, except for France, not for the US.

However, for some, these snide remarks in a language that they apparently assumed that I couldn't understand were not enough. One man, who was standing in a line for coffee in front of me, actually, upon hearing my accent when speaking to my brother, turned around and spat in my face, saying "You American Pig. Why don't you crawl back to you hick country and die of obesity?"
Now, I'm not even overweight. I could deal with gaining a few pounds, so that part was just odd, but it was enough for me to get... rather angry.


Odd. I've never witnessed anything like that. I see a lot of Americans in Paris, and they seem to be having a good time. They're constantly asking people for directions, for a photograph of them to be taken, or some other form of help, and from what I've seen they always get a polite and friendly reply. And I do mean always. They do from me too, of course.


No. "Black people" get the same rights as everyone else.


Funny. I remember an African American poet coming to my uni years ago when I was in second year, and talking about the discrimination black Americans are still subjected to, in housing, law enforcement, employment... Not legal discrimination, but constant discrimination by racist white bastards who know they can get away with it.


Have you ever heard of Barrack Obama? It'd be hard to say we discriminate against black people when he IS BLACK and is shaping up to be the next president.

Never mind the fact that there are heaps of people who will refuse to vote for him, because of the colour of his skin...


I agree completely. I think the whole French-bashing thing is mostly just for laughs... it's also partly a response to their obvious distaste for Americans.

In order to actually hate someone, the target of your hate needs to have some importance in your life. Americans rarely give much thought about the French. They really aren't on our radar at all. The only time they come up is usually as a minor irritant. So we make a few stupid French jokes and then forget they exist for another couple of years.

Some of the French-bashing I've witnessed was not jokes. It was wild, hysterical, irrational, ignorant hatred of the most pathetic kind.


Thats it. Germany attacks them again, we're not helping.

*rolls onto the floor laughing*

*gets up*

*points at New Ausha, and collapses laughing again*

Thank you for that! Every time I run the risk of forgetting that there are people out there willing to shout their own extreme ignorance out on the rooftops, some primary school dropout like you shows up.

Now, does anyone want to tell little Timmy New Ausha here why what he's just said is really, really, mind-numbingly stupid?


Honestly, I respect the hell out of the French military and their population's will to fight.

Yes, I'd be curious to see how French-bashing Americans would cope with an Occupation. And how many of them would be worthy even of looking at a member of the French Resistance, who's proved he/she has more courage and will to fight than any of those moronic American xenophobes.

Well the French like good food , intellectual discussion, and freedom - it is like they are designed to wind up the US.

Urmm... a lot of people in Europe and the US still do have an irrational prejudice against the Germans for what has occured in the past...

Well, from your tone, I assume you think that's a sad thing as well.

The French civilian death toll from the war was also around 3000, with many thousands of terrorist attacks. It's still utterly ridiculous to hate people for that, though.

Well, personally I think it's utterly ridiculous to hate anyone, for any reason. But Frenchmen died and Americans died. That sucks. And I imagine this has something to do with why Zidane gave Materazzi a nasty headbutt.

Yes, yes I am an ass. But it really could have been seen a mile away. Pissing away popularity with the Middle East by continuing to support Israel (which isn't exactly a much-loved region) and the Saudi Arabian elite (which has human rights abuses on the level of Iraq) as well as bombing Iraq several times in the 90's, and threatening everyone in the region.

I don't know why I'm going to defend the U.S. government, but here I go. Yes, we probably could have seen it coming. And yes we had our shot at Osama several times, assuming "getting him" would have prevented 9/11 (not a safe assumption in my opinion.) But if other Arab nations (like Iran) don't like that we support Israel, tough shit. We have our allies and we've had our allies and I don't think we should have to break alliances because a group of people irrationally hates Israel. The six-day war is an amazing story, and I've been to the fields where Israelis were greatly outnumbered and still defended themselves against virtually the entire Middle East. I think Israel has earned their right to remain there, and I know Europe sees it differently, but we've been pals with Israel for a long time, and because "other nations hate us" isn't really a good reason to break that friendship. But that's just me. As for Saudi Arabian elite support, bombing Iraq, training Osama Bin Laden, selling weapons to Iranians AND Iraqis, and a whole host of other things. Yeah, in hindsight, those things were real stupid. But hey, alliances change, and sometimes what seem like good decisions at the time come back to bite you in the ass later. All those things still don't justify pulling a deliberate attack on American civilians. That's just wrong.

Yes, obviously, with such non-occurances as the Iraqi and Afghanistani governments in the last couple of years alone...

I just think of them as two nations that we're fighting in the War on Terror, which as stupid as it is, is an actual war. Real people are really dying.

Well here's the issue. I don't think it was really to 'liberate the Iraqi people' or any of that - I don't even really think it was for oil.

It's more down to a personal feud that went far, far too far. And here we have the result. Far too many lives lost for both the Iraqis and the Americans and everyone else involved.

I don't know why I defended the Iraq war. I think I was just trying to bring light to the argument. The second it switched from "find weapons of mass destruction" to "regime change," and even worse now, I was out. When I heard about it, I said, "Oh? Saddam has nukes? He's so crazy. Yeah let's get them." But as soon as the objective changed I was out. Some Americans feel that we have a responsibility to bring Democracy to every nation of the world and that's a lie. Planting new governments in foreign nations is not easy, and this isn't Civilization III. When you switch governments people do more than just riot and then you can't build shit. What bugs me is that there are Democrats who are against Iraq, but were FOR our intervention in Rwanda. I'm pretty much non-interventionist all the way down the line.

On paper they get the same rights and job availability etc.

In truth, they get a median wage on 65% of that of Americans of "European" origin, according to census, and an unemployment rate of 11%, double that of white people (5.5%), as of 2002. (Wiki)

Yes, African-Americans make less than whites. I don't think that proves discrimination though. Most Americans seem to feel that if you want to work, you can. I just think it's odd that I see some kids from "the ghetto" succeed and go on to do great things in life, while others with the same circumstances seem to just fizzle out. I don't think it's because anyone is lazy, I honestly don't know what it is. I kind of think it's a deep cultural problem. Black men seem to be working less and less (unless the statistics have changed in the passed couple years) whereas black women are working more and more. The family structure is broken in the African-American community, and part of me believes that does stem back to slavery. Things are changing though, and things are getting better. It may take a couple decades, but on messageboards of the future, I doubt this will be an issue.

I thought the term was "African American", but fair enough.

I hate that phrase. It's so PC. And I rarely think of anyone as being "black." I grew up in New York, so I've kind of learned to be color-blind. If I meet someone, I generally don't describe them to another person as being "black" or "white." It might just be my family; my Mom went to a big time pro-integration school when she was younger and is big time anti-racism, prejudice, etc.

Ermm... I think it's more that the people who wouldn't vote for him on prejudice-based grounds would often vote for the Republicans anyway, so he's not going to be losing votes that way.

Eh, you'd be suprised. I have friends who I've always thought of as racist, yet they are considering voting for him. I think it's less of a "race" thing, and more of a "class" thing.

Although yes, this is indeed a fantastic development, and I consider him a better candidate than Hillary, due to her fairly conservative social views on some issues (computer games etc. for example).

Ah yes. Video games cause violence. Which explains why Japan has such a high homicide rate. Some politicians are just zombies.

Very true indeed - however I don't think that some of the more prejudiced areas of the US (again, sorry for sweeping remarks) such as the Midwest and Deep South are particularly interested in the massive cultural impact of black actors and musicians etc. when historically they have seen them as insuperior essentially due to the colour of their skin.

I don't think you'd be inaccurate in stating that the South are slightly more prejudice against blacks in general. That's the impression that I get from people I've met from the South anyway, and my Southern friends tell me it's "different" in the South. They'll (whites and blacks) be nice to each other, but there really is some anymosity there. Again, this is largely cultural. And I hear the Midwest cited as backwoods America by many Europeans, but with cities like Detroit and Chicago, it's becoming more integrated. But I know what you mean by "midwest," I'm just saying it's more diverse than you think, but you really shouldn't have to think about it. I don't think about whether Manchester or Edinburgh is more or less diverse.

Hispanic people in the US have it even worse than black people, in terms of income etc. (albeit not by much).

This stems largely from illegal immigration, which is obviously a big issue right now. Americans have it all wrong on illegal immigration, and we're looking to strip Hispanic migrants of the little that they have. I guess I'm glad that the Democrats are in power now, for that reason. Plus they'll put to rest any thought of this wall Congress wants to put up.

Paris Hilton sucks.

Okay, so she's talentless and lucky. Believe it or not, that's probably part of her charm. For some reason, people are obsessed with her. I can't remember who said it, maybe one of the guys from LCD Soundsystem or Arcade Fire, but they said, "She's the Marilyn Monroe of our generation." People are drawn to her, for whatever reason. Given most people liked Marilyn Monroe, and most people HATE Paris Hilton (for those talentless and lucky reasons) I don't know why people hate on her. So she inherited a lot of money, is spoiled, and is outspoken about it? I can't see myself getting angry about a blonde Californian who probably still gets checks from her Dad. I'd probably do her though.

It's coming sooner or later, due to fuel prices and the huge debts that this "war on terror" crap is creating. It's rather worrying tbh.

We'll see.

Which wiped 16.05% off the NASDAQ and 14.26% off the NYSE, followed up by a huge loss in 2002 due to a lack of consumer confidence. Which is quite big.

Which has done over $150 billion of damage, which has yet to have been fully repaired, as well as creating thousands of unemployed people, and causing less tax money to be available. Again, this is a ticking time bomb.

Again, we'll see. New Orleans' rebuilding process is getting kind of ridiculous. But I'm not one to talk; we can't even get the new World Trade Center built and that's only a few buildings.

Just hope that people don't start asking for their money back any time soon, and that the Democratic party can somehow end the various wars you're in and increase tax revenue quite a lot.

Well, I don't think we'd need to increase tax revenues so long as Congress stops spending its money on stupid shit. I think if the government spent a whole lot less we'd be in good shape.

These are character flaws, not reasons to go to war.

While I think that Saddam's actions are more than just character flaws, (and I'm not suggesting you think that either) I agree, those are not good reasons to go to war. I think trying to stop someone from using nuclear weapons is a good reason though. But staying there after we were wrong, well that's kind of stupid. Here's an interesting quote: "To occupy Iraq would instantly shatter our coalition, turning the whole Arab world against us and make a broken tyrant into a latter-day hero ... assigning young soldiers to a fruitless hunt for a securely entrenched dictator and condemning them to fight in what would be an un-winnable urban guerilla war. It could only plunge that part of the world into even greater instability." - George H. W. Bush (GeeDubya's father.)

Like I said, we are probably in agreement about the Iraq war.

Average that out over the three results and you get about 305000, which seems a fair enough figure, no?

Yeah, sure I guess. I don't think any experts really knows the body count, much less two nerds on a video game forum. So it's kind of pointless to argue about it.

Yep, and I'm a complete arsehole when arguing with Americans. Sorry.

No big deal? I hope no one takes anything personally on here, it is the internet after all. And by the by, my cousin lived in York for about a year and she loved it and wants to move back. She said it's the prettiest part of England, though I have yet to go.

Funny. I remember an African American poet coming to my uni years ago when I was in second year, and talking about the discrimination black Americans are still subjected to, in housing, law enforcement, employment... Not legal discrimination, but constant discrimination by racist white bastards who know they can get away with it.

Maybe that poet was subject to discrimination and that sucks. I'm not saying blacks aren't discriminated against, I'm saying they have the same rights as everybody else. Also Affirmative Action, though it may be unconstitutional, is a pretty swell thing for them. They're getting great jobs and getting into great Universities. Some people succeed and some people don't. I don't think that means there's widespread discrimination in the U.S. Certainly not more than anywhere else, in terms of their population.

Never mind the fact that there are heaps of people who will refuse to vote for him, because of the colour of his skin...

Well, I'm sure those people exist, and they're dumb. But he looks to be favored across the board by whites. Believe it or not, he's actually more popular with white voters than with black voters. Why, I have no idea. He is charismatic, well-spoken, and has a firm stance on the issues, albeit he lacks experience. Although I probably won't vote for him, I wouldn't be upset if he won.

I have absolutely no clue. I like France, and have always been treated well when there, so I have no complaints.

I've also never come across as much French bashing IRL as I have on NSG.

Most American's are pissed because they wouldn't help us with fighting Iraq, though in my mind it means that the French were warning us that it would be the mistake it turned out to be.

So you are telling me that we were bed buddies with the French before 2001? Were you just born a few years ago? We dont hate Germany equally, so how does that fit in with your theory.

I have not met anyone who actually "hates" the French, just people who make fun of them, kind of like the British do...and the Germans. The French are mean to Americans too (and this is before the Iraq war started.)

Spray painting swasticas on the graves at Normandy really didn't help at all. I'm not that patriotic, but my great uncle died on those beaches (as I'm told). Not to mention the French blocked all our suger trade routes after the revolutionary war until we paid them for helping us.

I guess Vietnam might play into it as well as they didn't help at all after we got dug into a country they were kicked out of. Just guessing.

Spray painting swasticas on the graves at Normandy really didn't help at all. I'm not that patriotic, but my great uncle died on those beaches (as I'm told). Not to mention the French blocked all our suger trade routes after the revolutionary war until we paid them for helping us.

I guess Vietnam might play into it as well as they didn't help at all after we got dug into a country they were kicked out of. Just guessing.

:eek: the french are spraypainting swasticas on graves?!

I always thought that was the work of Neo-nazis, but now I know better. How could I have been mistaken?

:eek: the french are spraypainting swasticas on graves?!

Should have seen Fox new's reaction. :p

Probably because they perceive the US as "anglo-Saxon" manifest. They might dislike the English and Germans, however I believe we are tolerably cultured. With a little justification, the French perceive US ostentation and machismo as an anathema to their more refined culture.

Urmm... a lot of people in Europe and the US still do have an irrational prejudice against the Germans for what has occured in the past...


Ahh what?

If you are referring to the murders in Florida, they were because they were tourists then being simply German.

There had been instances of neo-nazis and Nazi crap in the 101st Airborne....

Guess I would have to see what you mean....

Hispanic people in the US have it even worse than black people, in terms of income etc. (albeit not by much).

Actually recent news blips have been reporting they are improving faster then the black population (excluding the illegals of course).

Should have seen Fox new's reaction. :p

Fox News? The same group that listed (along with O'Reilly) that the Malmandy Massacre was a bunch of GIs killing SS prisoners?

People still watch them? ;)

They have a food that is an ENGORGED GOOSE LIVER.

That's not my complaint. My complaint is HOW THE HELL DID THEY FIGURE OUT THAT ENGORGED GOOSE LIVER IS GOOD?

Yes, twinkies, marshmallow fluff, jell-o, spam and dr.pepper are much more appetizing.

http://www.toyadz.com/toyadz/food/7up57.jpg

Yeah but thats not the only country that refuses, why single them out?

Kind of the "Two Minutes Hate" idea from 1984. They become the official "enemy" until they knuckle under American hegemony.

Yeah but thats not the only country that refuses, why single them out?

Kind of the "Two Minutes Hate" idea from 1984. They become the official "enemy" until they knuckle under American hegemony.

Ok, so here's how it goes. People in general (Im talking everyone, American, French, even thoes dirty Russians (I kid)) are fucking idiots. Thanks to our modern medicines and such, natural selection has been done away with. The absolute worthless sacks of shit that would have offed themselves via their own stupidity long ago continue to roam the earth and fornicate like a pack of horny rabbits. Well folks, nature has a way of righting things and eventualy, these puss-spewing, shit-stained maggots will be the death of all of us.

I dont mean to sound like a pissy little bitch, but Im sick of all you goddamned ignorant fucks who cant tell their ass from a hole in the ground fucking everything up for everyone else.

Eat a dick and die.

Oh yeah, before I for get,

CONGRADULATIONS!!! YOU JUST LOST THE HUMAN RACE!!!

Ok, so here's how it goes. People in general (Im talking everyone, American, French, even thoes dirty Russians (I kid)) are fucking idiots. Thanks to our modern medicines and such, natural selection has been done away with. The absolute worthless sacks of shit that would have offed themselves via their own stupidity long ago continue to roam the earth and fornicate like a pack of horny rabbits. Well folks, nature has a way of righting things and eventualy, these puss-spewing, shit-stained maggots will be the death of all of us.

I dont mean to sound like a pissy little bitch, but Im sick of all you goddamned ignorant fucks who cant tell their ass from a hole in the ground fucking everything up for everyone else.

Eat a dick and die.

Oh yeah, before I for go,

CONGRADULATIONS!!! YOU JUST LOST THE HUMAN RACE!!!

Ph3AR MY N00bnEHSS!!!11

:rolleyes:

Most American's are pissed because they wouldn't help us with fighting Iraq, though in my mind it means that the French were warning us that it would be the mistake it turned out to be.

(I have no problem with the French, for awhile I considered joining the French Foreign Legion)
Agreed. I also have nothing against France itself or the French people (I actually can respect the nation for having a language that once as the lingua franca of international diplomatic affairs and forming a key part in shaping modern diplomacy). What I do however, is, dislike stereotypes. An appropriate summation Wanderjar, the American hawks are the ones to blame for this impression that many Americans dislike the Republic of France.

Hi I'm not american or English. I'm italian, but I hate the french.

Dunno why. Must be something about the fact that I don't like being insulted.

I never met a french I could talk with. They just feel the need to tell me I'm some sort of inferior being because I was born here.
Actually I stopped trying to reason with them. They routinely start with the usual "how can you italian eat this shit, in france.." / "Italy is just ruled by the mafia, in France...". I ignore them and go on with what I have to do.

Quite a few years ago I met a french girl who appeared actually rather reasonable. Then we exchanged some mail in that pre-internet days and she felt the need to pay me a compliment by saying "At first I thought you were the tipical italian, then I realized you were intelligent and (some other pleasant thing)".

That was when I realized I had misjudged her too : at first I thougth she was NOT the tipical french.

There's people who consider my country to be an insult and then there's people I can enjoy the company of. French are the first sort people.

Why do so many Americans hate the french?

because they are arrogant and think they are better/smarter than everyone else...the same attitude as many Americans have regarding other countries...and to be fair many countries have this attitude but they're less obvious about it than the French and Americans...

because they are arrogant and think they are better/smarter than everyone else...the same attitude as many Americans have regarding other countries...and to be fair many countries have this attitude but they're less obvious about it than the French and Americans...Well obviously Americans have a right and reason to feel better about themselves.

Well obviously Americans have a right and reason to feel better about themselves.

Not really.. there country is not that much better than the rest of the developed world..