NationStates Jolt Archive

Poll coming soon.

As I often have random thoughts popping into my head, I wondered suddenly whether most people here would consider something / someone "élite" to be positive, a role model, something to aspire to, etc... or on the contrary to be insulting in some way.

In other words, what do you think of when you think "élite", and how does it make you react?

If I am elite, it's good. If I am not elite, it's bad.

Only on a twenty plus year old computer game.

I don't understand.

I don't understand.

Well, I can't really explain, since I'm asking you about your understanding of the word. But Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elite) does have several examples to explain.

Social elitism is good.

"Elite" has only positive connotations for me. "Elitist," on the other hand, has strongly negative connotations.

Social elitism is good.
Only on NSG. :p

Elite of your field, good
Elite soldiers, elite scientists, elite innovators, pioneers, astronauts, creators, builders, doers, thinkers, etc. are always good


Elitists, so-called 'intellectualism', arrogance, moral elites, elitist artsy/intellectual types, or basically anything that smacks of "I am so better than you" is major bad, and from what I observe, this is what elite means.

Before anyone calls me anti-intellectual/troglodyte/person who doesn't like knowledge etc., I am a scientist.

"Elite" has only positive connotations for me. "Elitist," on the other hand, has strongly negative connotations.

Seconded. "Elitist" also carries connotations of undeserved status.

Only on NSG. :p

*strokes ego*

Ooh, accent aigu.

Elitism sucks. Sex is elite. Grrr.

Ooh, accent aigu.

Well, we may as well spell things the proper way.

Elite II is teh r0x0r00ny!

/t00 many 000's! argh!

Well, we may as well spell things the proper way.

Pity English seldom does.

Pity English seldom does.

There is always pinyin.

When I generally think of being "elite" I consider it to be a good thing. To me it implies being among the best at whatever quality one is talking about.

It is not the "being elite" that people do not like in my opinion, it is the liberties those that are elite take because of their status. When the elite begin getting snobbish and arrogant, it arrouses sentiments of resentment.

There are the people who are simply jealous as well.

When I generally think of being "elite" I consider it to be a good thing. To me it implies being among the best at whatever quality one is talking about.

It is not the "being elite" that people do not like in my opinion, it is the liberties those that are elite take because of their status. When the elite begin getting snobbish and arrogant, it arrouses sentiments of resentment.

There are the people who are simply jealous as well.

That's a fairly good summary in my view, yes.

It makes me think of elitists, who assume themselves superior and smarter than the general population.....(like a group of hollywood actors that throw their political point of view forward like someone is listening). Thus, elitist gives the word a disgusting meaning.

I don't care one way or another about being elite. I'm unique. That's better. :)

Like with many others, it brings to my mind elitists - people who think they're above everyone else, even though they certainly aren't. So, negative.

if i agree with the person who is claiming elite status, then its positive.

as long as its also something that its cool to be elite in.


elite athletes are positve; elite nose pickers arent.

It makes me think of elitists, who assume themselves superior and smarter than the general population.....(like a group of hollywood actors that throw their political point of view forward like someone is listening). Thus, elitist gives the word a disgusting meaning.

Yeah! If people can actually hear your opinion, you shouldn't have one!

Uh...anyway...

"Elitist" to me is just a tar brush people use to dismiss something without actually addressing the argument. "Oh he's elitist, he thinks he's better than you." "Did he say that? I thought he was just recommending something." "Well, he wouldn't have ideas if he didn't think he was better than you, now would he?" "Huh?"

Here's the contradiction: I want people to not act elite (be more "down to earth), but I do want them to exhibit certain characteristics of being elite, such as being educated and well mannered.

Pity English seldom does.

Remember: English was created by tracking other languages down alleys, beating them up, riffling through their pockets and stealing random words, not necessarily intact.

Yeah! If people can actually hear your opinion, you shouldn't have one!

Uh...anyway...

"Elitist" to me is just a tar brush people use to dismiss something without actually addressing the argument. "Oh he's elitist, he thinks he's better than you." "Did he say that? I thought he was just recommending something." "Well, he wouldn't have ideas if he didn't think he was better than you, now would he?" "Huh?"

No one said people aren't entitled to their opinions..... It is just that elitists such as Tim Robbins and Susan Serandan (spelling) make "drive-by" political commentary at will, when they should be promoting movies instead.. By drive-by I mean they are known for making horrible comments about anyone that doesn't share their political beliefs, knowing they not only don't have anyone forcing them to explain themselves or better elaborate on their own political ideology, but the fact that people actually take what they are saying as fact....it's a bit scary...

No one said people aren't entitled to their opinions..... It is just that elitists such as Tim Robbins and Susan Serandan (spelling) make "drive-by" political commentary at will, when they should be promoting movies instead.. By drive-by I mean they are known for making horrible comments about anyone that doesn't share their political beliefs, knowing they not only don't have anyone forcing them to explain themselves or better elaborate on their own political ideology, but the fact that people actually take what they are saying as fact....it's a bit scary...

You honestly think that Tim Robbins or Susan Sarandin would shy away from a chance to explain themselves or elaborate on their own political ideology?

You honestly think that Tim Robbins or Susan Sarandin would shy away from a chance to explain themselves or elaborate on their own political ideology?

you do make a point.... why can't Tim Robbins just stick to making wonderful movies like Shawshank Redemption.... I can't hate the guy, no matter if he does spout BS in his personal life....

you do make a point.... why can't Tim Robbins just stick to making wonderful movies like Shawshank Redemption.... I can't hate the guy, no matter if he does spout BS in his personal life....

We're still back to the 'if people can actually hear your opinions you shouldn't have one' place, then.

How could it ever be viewed as bad.

Remember: English was created by tracking other languages down alleys, beating them up, riffling through their pockets and stealing random words, not necessarily intact.

Silly analogy, but sufficient to explain the hideous result.

I'm so élite, I refuse to subject myself to human conventions of "gender", "age", "location", "sexuality", or anything else like that! I am rebelling against the world by refusing to participate in it, because I'm so much better than everyone else!

... wait a minute.

[/teenager]

Silly analogy, but sufficient to explain the hideous result.

I fully disagree, it's a wonderful result.

I fully disagree, it's a wonderful result.

Permit me to wager, monoglot?

Permit me to wager, monoglot?

Nein, mein Schatz.

Ich kenne ein bisschen Deutsch, ich bin nicht fliessend, aber passabel in Wort und Schrift.

Es tut mir leid, wenn mein Grammatik nicht so gut ist, aber ich bin sehr muede.

Nein, mein Schatz.

Ich bin schon der Schatz der Oeck. Also, Sie sollen leider einen anderen finden. Tut mir wirklich leid.

Ich kenne ein bisschen Deutsch, ich bin nicht fliessend, aber passabel in Wort und Schrift.

Nicht um gemein zu sein, aber das Deutsch ist auch nicht die schönste Sprache der Welt...

Ich bin schon der Schatz der Oeck. Also, Sie sollen leider einen anderen finden. Tut mir wirklich leid.
Eine grosse Tragoedie.

*Weint* :(



Nicht um gemein zu sein, aber das Deutsch ist auch nicht die schönste Sprache der Welt...

Aber Deutsch ist so viel Spass! Vielleicht nicht so schoen, aber Deutsch gefaellt mir sehr viel.

Eine grosse Tragoedie.
*Weint* :(

Aww, vermutlich kann man sich mit Oeck darüber einigen.

Aber Deutsch ist so viel Spass! Vielleicht nicht so schoen, aber Deutsch gefaellt mir sehr viel.

"Viel Spass". So hiessten unsere deutschen Bücher hier. Lügen!

Aww, vermutlich kann man sich mit Oeck darüber einigen.

Vielleicht.



"Viel Spass". So hiessten unsere deutschen Bücher hier.

Wir haben "Deutsch, na Klar!" fuer die neuen Studenten.

Vielleicht.

Als wir in Schweden sagen: "Frågar man ingenting, får man ingenting veta". (~ "Fragt man nichts, werden man nichts wissen.")

Wir haben "Deutsch, na Klar!" fuer die neuen Studenten.

Gibt jedenfalls ihnen keine falschen Versprechungen.

Nein, mein Schatz.

Ich kenne ein bisschen Deutsch, ich bin nicht fliessend, aber passabel in Wort und Schrift.

Es tut mir leid, wenn mein Grammatik nicht so gut ist, aber ich bin sehr muede.

Ich bin schon der Schatz der Oeck. Also, Sie sollen leider einen anderen finden. Tut mir wirklich leid.



Nicht um gemein zu sein, aber das Deutsch ist auch nicht die schönste Sprache der Welt...

Eine grosse Tragoedie.

*Weint* :(





Aber Deutsch ist so viel Spass! Vielleicht nicht so schoen, aber Deutsch gefaellt mir sehr viel.

Aww, vermutlich kann man sich mit Oeck darüber einigen.



"Viel Spass". So hiessten unsere deutschen Bücher hier. Lügen!

Vielleicht.





Wir haben "Deutsch, na Klar!" fuer die neuen Studenten.

Als wir in Schweden sagen: "Frågar man ingenting, får man ingenting veta". (~ "Fragt man nichts, werden man nichts wissen.")



Gibt jedenfalls ihnen keine falschen Versprechungen.


Awwww, cutest NSG conversation ever!

*giggles*

Awwww, cutest NSG conversation ever!

*giggles*

There'll be no more of that for you then, lest you recant and explain the cuteness. Please, don't be gentle.

Silly analogy, but sufficient to explain the hideous result.

On the contrary, this makes it the world's greatest language.

I offer as evidence the OED.

On the contrary, this makes it the world's greatest language.

Bwahahaha...

No, seriously, I just did laugh out like that. "LOLed at that" as the kids say.

Bwahahaha...

No, seriously, I just did laugh out like that. "LOLed at that" as the kids say.

No language rivals it in expressiveness of vocabulary, ours has the largest vocabulary of any language. English also has the most interesting and complex etymology and history, and its faculty for expanding by borrowing foreign words makes it greater yet by the day.


With my linguistics degree, i'm an expert.


:)

There'll be no more of that for you then, lest you recant and explain the cuteness. Please, don't be gentle.
Why was it cute? Because of the cute mistakes, of course. :fluffle:

No language rivals it in expressiveness of vocabulary, ours has the largest vocabulary of any language.

All that speaks for is class-induced redundancy, not expressiveness, or usefulness, or relevance.

English also has the most interesting and complex etymology

I should like to call BS on that, since English etymology is mostly French.

and history, and its faculty for expanding by borrowing foreign words makes it greater yet by the day.

Which is not in any way unique to it, or in any way done well by it.

With my linguistics degree, i'm an expert.
:)

Kellogg's university certainly is the almest of the maters.

Why was it cute? Because of the cute mistakes, of course. :fluffle:

Which I thought I had told you to rip me a new one with. Chop, chop!

All that speaks for is class-induced redundancy, not expressiveness, or usefulness, or relevance.

I should like to call BS on that, since English etymology is mostly French.

Which is not in any way unique to it, or in any way done well by it.

Kellogg's university certainly is the almest of the maters.

English, on account of its lack of relevance and usefulness, is hardly taught or learned outside of the united states, canada, england and australia, right?

Unless you're a native English speaker, educated and well read in English, you probably don't grasp all the distinctions in expression between words you think are redundant.

A lot of our vocabulary came to us through french, but English is not a romance language.

Where and what, I must ask, is "kelogg's university" ?

English, on account of its lack of relevance and usefulness, is hardly taught or learned outside of the united states, canada, england and australia, right?

Perhaps you should keep track of what you're arguing yourself, because what you were saying was "we're better because we have a large vocabulary" and I just didn't buy the argument, since it doesn't say anything about the language itself. As I wrote, most it speaks for in this case is class-induced redundancy.

Unless you're a native English speaker, educated and well read in English, you probably don't grasp all the distinctions in expression between words you think are redundant.

Me speak Engrish poor. Stupid I. Can't understands the difference between word like as "stratum" and "layer".

A lot of our vocabulary came to us through french, but English is not a romance language.

No, English was just so insufficient on its own that it had to take most of its words from French, which is the language that this "complex and rich" etymology belongs to and you're trying to hog the honour from.

Where and what, I must ask, is "kelogg's university" ?

Pay more attention to the back of your cereal box this time around.

Can't understands the difference between word like as "stratum" and "layer".

Um... "stratum" sounds more sophisticated?

Like a lot of the Latin-derived words in English, it is also more congenial to a metaphorical or technical usage than "layer"; people speak of "social strata" but rarely of "social layers."

Obviously, the value of a language is not the least bit subjective.

Perhaps you should keep track of what you're arguing yourself, because what you were saying was "we're better because we have a large vocabulary" and I just didn't buy the argument, since it doesn't say anything about the language itself. As I wrote, most it speaks for in this case is class-induced redundancy.
It's not redundant when words can explain different nuances of meaning.



Me speak Engrish poor. Stupid I. Can't understands the difference between word like as "stratum" and "layer".
Sadly, this was meant in jest, but it turns out to be true.


No, English was just so insufficient on its own that it had to take most of its words from French, which is the language that this "complex and rich" etymology belongs to and you're trying to hog the honour from.
English is still a mostly Germanic language. By this logic, French is really just hogging honor from latin.


Pay more attention to the back of your cereal box this time around.
In this manner, I assume we should be more like Fass.

Um... "stratum" sounds more sophisticated?

Like a lot of the Latin-derived words in English, it is also more congenial to a metaphorical usage than "layer"; people speak of "social strata" but rarely of "social layers."

That was my point. Sure, English has tonnes of words, but it isn't like all those words fill meaningful voids. It isn't like "social strata" means anything else than "social layers", but for some reason English-speakers needed different words for the same thing just to project this "sophistication" or social niche.

There is no denying that large parts of this huge English vocabulary are nothing but redundant trash. Oh, pardon, superfluous refuse. Oh, excuse me, supernumerary detritus. Oh, absolve... and I think you get the point.

I don't like the whole concept of eliteness. My dislike stems from the drama program at my school, which is filled with all sort of stupid elitist attitudes. See, there's this elite group called "Company" hand-picked by the drama teacher, and it's filled with stupid pricks who think they rule the world. It's supposed to be a senior group, but it's actually only got one, maybe two, seniors, and whole buttload of sophomore prodigies. And the people who get in think they are like the cream of the crop, and that they have special priviledges. And the sad thing is, there are plenty of talented people who don't get chosen, and plenty of chosen people who are not that talented. It's all subjective; it's all what this one teacher thinks. So, no, I don't think being "elite" is special. I think it's just a bullsh.t title that only leads to arrogance and people hating eachother.

It's not redundant when words can explain different nuances of meaning.

It is redundant because in most cases the "nuance" is non-existent or "inusité", which by the way most of this huge vocabulary is.

Sadly, this was meant in jest, but it turns out to be true.

Yes, because it isn't like "stratum" is explained with the word "layer" in a dictionary or anything...

English is still a mostly Germanic language.

By loose grammar only, I should say. English vocabulary is 60% Latin/French.

By this logic, French is really just hogging honor from latin.

They do not attempt to hog the honour, unlike it would seem some speakers of English would like to in some sort of self-aggrandisation. They like French because it's French, not because of some trumped up phoniness of global greatness. At least not anymore, but they did do a lot of what one sees English-speakers do nowadays when theirs was the literal lingua franca. They matured. Let's hope for the same with Anglophones.

In this manner, I assume we should be more like Fass.

Hey, at least I'm fully aware what Internet credentials amount to.

Aww, vermutlich kann man sich mit Oeck darüber einigen.

Nein. Einmal teilen ist genug. ;P

Als wir in Schweden sagen: "Frågar man ingenting, får man ingenting veta". (~ "Fragt man nichts, werden man nichts wissen.")
Tausen tolle Sachen / die gibt es überall zu seh'n / manchmal muss man fragen / um sie zu versteh'n!
Der, die, das *clap clap* / Wer, wie was *clap clap* / Wieso , weshalb, warum *clap clap* / Wer nicht fragt bleibt dumm.

..sorry. *clap clap*


Awwww, cutest NSG conversation ever!

*giggles*

I second that. Huggles all around for everyone involved; you made my day.

Tausen tolle Sachen / die gibt es überall zu seh'n / manchmal muss man fragen / um sie zu versteh'n!
Der, die, das *clap clap* / Wer, wie was *clap clap* / Wieso , weshalb, warum *clap clap* / Wer nicht fragt bleibt dumm.

..sorry. *clap clap*


Damn, I actually wrote "werden man", didn't I? That's just a stupid lapse.

*mutters "werde, wirst, wird, werden, werdet, werden"*

Which I thought I had told you to rip me a new one with. Chop, chop!
What, you wanted me to correct all the cute mistakes? :eek:

Damn, I actually wrote "werden man", didn't I? That's just a stupid lapse.
Most of these are. You always amaze me with your apparantly limitless ability forself-correction given half the chance.

*mutters "werde, wirst, wird, werden, werdet, werden"*
Oh, your reiterating German grammar patterns muttering! Can I hear the one with conjunctions followed by the accusative? I always loved that one. *ducks*

Most of these are. You always amaze me with your apparantly limitless ability forself-correction given half the chance.

OK, you may shut it now.

Oh, your reiterating German grammar patterns muttering! Can I hear the one with conjunctions followed by the accusative? I always loved that one. *ducks*

"Durch, für, gegen, ohne, um, wider", always and "an, auf, hinter, in, neben, über, unter, vor, zwischen" about direction.

To be fair, I don't think being elitist is necessarily a good or a bad thing; it depends entirely on the context, your attitude towards others, et cetera.

For example, I suppose I can be a bit of an elitist in the sense that I won't 'hang' with certain groups of people. Now, this doesn't come from an attitude that I'm better than them... (although I might very well be), but from the fact that these people don't make right choices in their lives, choose to do things which aren't going to help themselves or in furthering their goals, and so consequently I don't want that influence over my life.

As they say; Fly with the eagles and you become an eagle, but slither with the worms and you become a worm.

I have huge goals in life, and I need people around me to reflect a desire to be moving forward, being productive instead of counterproductive, etc etc.

On the contrary, if I said 'Black people are black so I won't hang with them', then that's a force of elitism also, which I wouldn't say is healthy. Or likewise 'All arabs are terrorists', or even 'These people don't dress cool enough', anything coming from an ego-perspective I suppose.

What, you wanted me to correct all the cute mistakes? :eek:

How else shall I ever become more than a Swedish trinket for the German hawks?

OK, you may shut it now.
'May', in this case, is a deontic modal in the present tense used in order to express permission to do something; it can also be used as an epistemic modal in the sense of a judgement of possibility. 'May' cannot be used to express an obligation.

/studying for grammar test

"Durch, für, gegen, ohne, um, wider", always and "an, auf, hinter, in, neben, über, unter, vor, zwischen" about direction.
*smiles* I can hear that.

How else shall I ever become more than a Swedish trinket for the German hawks?
You needn't. (Modal use of 'need', negation of modality/obligation)

How else shall I ever become more than a Swedish trinket for the German hawks?
Alright then:

Nein, mein Schatz.

Ich kenne kann ein bisschen Deutsch, ich bin nicht fliessend, aber passabel in Wort und Schrift.

Es tut mir leid, wenn meine Grammatik nicht so gut ist, aber ich bin sehr muede.

Ich bin schon der Schatz der von Oeck. Also, Sie sollen musst Du leider einen anderen finden. Tut mir wirklich leid.



Nicht um gemein zu sein That's an English sentence construction, hehe, it should be something like Ich moechte ja nicht gemein sein, aber dasDeutsch ist auch nicht die schönste Sprache der Welt...

Eine grosse Tragoedie.

*Weint* :(





Aber Deutsch ist macht so viel Spass! Es ist vielleicht nicht so schoen, aber Deutsch gefaellt mir sehr viel gut.

Aww, vermutlich kann man sich mit Oeck darüber einigen.



"Viel Spass". So hiessten hiessen unsere deutschen Bücher hier. Lügen!

Vielleicht.





Wir haben "Deutsch, na Klar!" fuer die neuen Studenten.

Als Wie wir in Schweden sagen: "Frågar man ingenting, får man ingenting veta". (~ "Fragt man nichts, werden wird man nichts wissen.") (Oder eben "Wer nicht fragt bleibt dumm".)



Gibt Macht ihnen jedenfalls ihnen keine falschen Versprechungen.


As you can see - not many mistakes at all! But it's still really cute to read, mainly because of the very slightly and undefinably odd way of phrasing things. :p

Alright then:

As you can see - not many mistakes at all! But it's still really cute to read, mainly because of the very slightly and undefinably odd way of phrasing things. :p

Du wirst immer ein Liebchen sein. For today, at least. :)

But, why not "der Oeck" - "Die Oeck -> Der Oeck" in the genitive, I thought. That doesn't work?

As for the OP.. as far as I know, I'm running into a language problem here. I'm not aware of a word in my language that functions as an adjective of 'élite' (as a noun) that doesn't explicitly convey a negative connotation as, well, something of a denotation, really.
'Élite' as a noun is okay to my ears as long as it refers to someone/-thing being top (in their field) without being especially pushed and/or hyped (and/or snobby), but especially in the context of our current national discussion about 'élite universities' it has a very bad ring to it when used to refer to an élite that is founded on explicitly making the rest worse, in this case, drawing funds from that general basis in order to create such an élite.

But then again, I don't hear the word used much in the 'good' sense. If someone's especially good and even the best (in their environment) at, say, sports or academics or whatever, you don't hear them being referred to as 'the élite' unless they have become obscenely famous/rich/.. through it.

Yes, I think that crappy posts are thoroughly excused by the need to post at least something on-topic if you derail the thread with loads of off-topic stuff otherwise.

Du wirst immer ein Liebchen sein. For today, at least. :)
*throws mock jealousy fit*

But, why not "der Oeck" - "Die Oeck -> Der Oeck" in the genitive, I thought. That doesn't work?

I thought of calling her on that when I read that correction. She's right insofar as that it is not standard German, you don't use that ind of possessive construction with people's names there - but you can use it in, say, Southern German dialect, IIRC.

For people and their 'possessions', you have to use either the apostrophic possessive (which, funnily enough, doesn't take an apostrophe in German, thus rendering it "Oecks") or the 'von' construction, as she had it, because we (that's us Standard Germans, other than them Southerners) don't use the definite article with people's names.
(That's what you get for trying German grammar in an English-speaking mindset. Ashamed reverence to Witt-Witt for pointing out my glaring mistake)

Du wirst immer ein Liebchen sein. For today, at least. :)

But, why not "der Oeck" - "Die Oeck -> Der Oeck" in the genitive, I thought. That doesn't work?It's grammatically correct but hopelessly overwrought. Nobody would ever say that, few would write it. It's used when you simply talk about a woman, for example ("die Tasche der Frau") but not with a proper name, except in cases where you talk about someone famous ("die Ehemänner der Callas", "die Filme der Taylor") and even then it smacks of - behold the elegant loop back on topic - stuck-up and outdated elitism. ;)

It's grammatically correct but hopelessly overwrought. Nobody would ever say that, few would write it. It's used when you simply talk about a woman, for example ("die Tasche der Frau") but not with a proper name, except in cases where you talk about someone famous ("die Ehemänner der Callas", "die Filme der Taylor") and even then it smacks of - behold the elegant loop back on topic - stuck-up and outdated elitism. ;)

Well, I blame my Swiss German teacher, again. He often used the article with proper names and consequently so did we.

*throws mock jealousy fit*

You, get back to studying, you!

I thought of calling her on that when I read that correction. She's right insofar as that it is not standard German, you don't use that ind of possessive construction with people's names there - but you can use it in, say, Southern German dialect, IIRC.

For people and their 'possessions', you have to use either the apostrophic possessive (Oeck's) or the 'von' construction, as she had it, because we (that's us Standard Germans, other than them Southerners) don't use the definite article with people's names.

So, I wasn't wrong and neither was my Swiss teacher! Aha! :)

It's grammatically correct but hopelessly overwrought. It's used when you simply talk about a woman, for example ("die Tasche der Frau") but not with a proper name, except in cases where you talk about someone famous ("die Ehemänner der Callas", "die Filme der Taylor") and even then it smacks of - behold the elegant loop back on topic - stuck-up and outdated elitism. ;)
Now that's why it sounded okay the first time 'round! ;P

Yet I still very much disagree with you on the last point. To my mind/ears, "Die Ehemänner der Callas" sounds like something I'd say, and write in informal text, while "Die Ehemänner von Maria Callas" (Fassigen: You couldn't use just the surname here) or "Maria Callas' Ehemänner" sound much more formal and like something I'd write.

Using the defnite article with a proper name sounds as part of dialect at best, and pejorative and disparaging at worst, to me.

ETA: Actually, I retrace a wee bit. It might just be the 'leaving out the first name' bit that makes it sound that way; if I look at "Die Ehemänner der Maria Callas" it sounds - well, still rather like (Southern?) dialect, but also more stuck-up/outdated than pejorative.

..and I blame any of your arguing against that perception of mine on you being a bloody Southern ex-pat yourself. ;P

I thought of calling her on that when I read that correction. She's right insofar as that it is not standard German, you don't use that ind of possessive construction with people's names there - but you can use it in, say, Southern German dialect, IIRC. :eek: Okay, for one: don't go teaching him dialect that will only get him laughed at! And as for what you're talking about: yes, my home dialect for example does do the "der [name]" but the whole sentence construction is completely different (and completely wrong according to the rules of standard German): we wouldn't say "der Schatz der Oeck" but "der Oeck ihr Schatz".
Which, btw, was the only example in which my home dialect enabled me to understand Burmese possessive constructions better faster than my two co-students. :p

For people and their 'possessions', you have to use either the apostrophic possessive (Oeck's) :eek: :eek:
This post shall live in infamy forever!! Rechtschreibreform hin oder her, you don't really want him to start using the dreaded possessive apostrophe of "Moni's Haus"???

^ Best. Conversation. Ever.

You, get back to studying, you!
I *am* studying. It's just that I'm doing the hands-on practice atm.

So, I wasn't wrong and neither was my Swiss teacher! Aha! :)
Well, you were in thinking you'd be applying 'good' German, and s/he was definitely wrong in teaching you that kind of German. I never stopped marvelling at how one can install a Swiss as a GFL teacher..

:eek: Okay, for one: don't go teaching him dialect that will only get him laughed at!
Nix darf man. ;[
And as for what you're talking about: yes, my home dialect for example does do the "der [name]" but the whole sentence construction is completely different (and completely wrong according to the rules of standard German): we wouldn't say "der Schatz der Oeck" but "der Oeck ihr Schatz".
Urgh, even I didn't dare go there, even though the thought crossed my mind. *shudders and cleans out brain with soap*
:eek: :eek:
This post shall live in infamy forever!! Rechtschreibreform hin oder her, you don't really want him to start using the dreaded possessive apostrophe of "Moni's Haus"???Moni. Ahaha. Ahahaha. Out yourself again and again.

Umm. No. Actually, I never said anything about apastrophes. I was just telling him about a structure parallel to the English apostrophe thing, which OF COURSE in German doesn't take an apostrophe. Which is why, OF COURSE, it is "Susannes Haus" and, umm, "Oecks Schatz". Yes.

*goes back in utter shame and edits out the one thing she always gets so very furious with other people doing it for*

When I generally think of being "elite" I consider it to be a good thing. To me it implies being among the best at whatever quality one is talking about.

It is not the "being elite" that people do not like in my opinion, it is the liberties those that are elite take because of their status. When the elite begin getting snobbish and arrogant, it arrouses sentiments of resentment.

There are the people who are simply jealous as well.
I was going to post something along these lines, but I think you've done a better job of it. :) I admire people who are self-confident within reason, but not those who take this to the level of sheer blind superciliousness.

There is no denying that large parts of this huge English vocabulary are nothing but redundant trash. Oh, pardon, superfluous refuse. Oh, excuse me, supernumerary detritus. Oh, absolve... and I think you get the point.
Except that many of the words are used depending on context. What is wrong with a diverse vocabulary?

English, on account of its lack of relevance and usefulness, is hardly taught or learned outside of the united states, canada, england and australia, right?

Unless you're a native English speaker, educated and well read in English, you probably don't grasp all the distinctions in expression between words you think are redundant.

A lot of our vocabulary came to us through french, but English is not a romance language.

Where and what, I must ask, is "kelogg's university" ?

English is horrid! This coming from a native English speaker.

There are far two many synonyms, with their slight nuances in definition lost to the unartistic masses who are content to use language merely as a tool, rather than submit to it as an art!

On topic, elitism is not necessarily bad, so long as it is goes no further than meritocracy. We need elite, in a sense. We need the musically elite to encourage the mediocre musicians and to teach the musical dunces and so that those of us who are too afraid to even try an instument hear good music rather than mediocre or weak music only.

And that applies to all aspects and fields of life.

Poll coming soon.

As I often have random thoughts popping into my head, I wondered suddenly whether most people here would consider something / someone "élite" to be positive, a role model, something to aspire to, etc... or on the contrary to be insulting in some way.

In other words, what do you think of when you think "élite", and how does it make you react?

Funny, I had no idea elite was spelled with an accent.

This is the most appropriate direction a thread can go; right into German.

This is the most appropriate direction a thread on elitism can go; right into German.

There. Fixed. ;]

There. Fixed. ;]

Isn't it élitism?

Belonging to an élite... it happens. Whether is good or bad, it depends totally on how you use belonging to it. Mocking/disdaining/insulting people who don't belong to an élite is bad. Using your elitary condition to help other people is good. At least in my - not so humble - opinion.

Poll coming soon.

As I often have random thoughts popping into my head, I wondered suddenly whether most people here would consider something / someone "élite" to be positive, a role model, something to aspire to, etc... or on the contrary to be insulting in some way.

In other words, what do you think of when you think "élite", and how does it make you react?

It all depends on whether you think the person deserves the title. A lot of people think of themselves as elite just because their rich.

i do value the kind of world i'd rather be living in somewhat higher then trying to impress anybody.

=^^=
.../\...

Isn't it élitism?

Nope. It's either elitism or élitisme, IIIC.