NationStates Jolt Archive

Q. What's the difference between France's national day and Australia's national day?

A. France celebrates the tearing down of a prison and the emancipation of its citizens. Australia celebrates the establishment of a prison and the beginning of the destruction of aboriginal society.

Um, okay? Where did that come from?

Both are celebration of freedom and all that good stuff we Westerners claim to like, I think, but if you’re going to play that game, the French celebrate the beginning of a horrendously bloody revolution that eventually led to the rise of Napoleon.

what bloody prison
26 January 1788 was the date on which the First Fleet, under Captain Arthur Phillip arrived at Sydney Cove and set up the Colony of New South Wales

Bastille Day still owns all other national holidays.

Um, okay? Where did that come from?

Both are celebration of freedom and all that good stuff we Westerners claim to like, I think, but if you’re going to play that game, the French celebrate the beginning of a horrendously bloody revolution that eventually led to the rise of Napoleon.

Well, it's Australia Day today. I always feel uncomfortable when it comes around as the historical event it "celebrates" has nothing to do with freedom. The historical event of 26 January 1788 was the arrival of the first fleet whose mission was to set up a penal colony. To put a gloss of "freedom" on the event is wilful self-delusion.

I agree that the events of Bastille Day led to the Terror, however the historical event itself was about freedom.

what bloody prison
26 January 1788 was the date on which the First Fleet, under Captain Arthur Phillip arrived at Sydney Cove and set up the Colony of New South Wales

It was to set up a penal colony. That's not worth celebrating.

Well, it's Australia Day today. I always feel uncomfortable when it comes around as the historical event it "celebrates" has nothing to do with freedom. The historical event of 26 January 1788 was the arrival of the first fleet whose mission was to set up a penal colony. To put a gloss of "freedom" on the event is wilful self-delusion.

I agree that the events of Bastille Day led to the Terror, however the historical event itself was about freedom.

it was freedom all right for those who got out of those boodly jails in the Uk

it was freedom all right for those who got out of those boodly jails in the Uk

How so?

The only holiday all people shall celebrate is the day when my armies of Gaint Killer Monkeys take over the world. *Nods Head*

Meh. The date was obv. chosen because of the first fleet, but the day itself celebrates Australia's positive history and values, not the settling of a penal colony.

How so?

they had clean water, not pack in to a small drity cell no more
and the list of what it was like in 1788 prison and hulks goes on

Meh. The date was obv. chosen because of the first fleet, but the day itself celebrates Australia's positive history and values, not the settling of a penal colony.

By all means celebrate Australia's positive history and values. But why choose an event in history that is neither positive or representative of our values.

Actually, I take that back. I just thought of David Hicks and refugees. And Australia's contribution to the destruction of Iraqi society.

Maybe 26 January 1788 is a good choice of day.

By all means celebrate Australia's positive history and values. But why choose an event in history that is neither positive or representative of our values.

Actually, I take that back. I just thought of David Hicks and refugees. And Australia's contribution to the destruction of Iraqi society.

Maybe 26 January 1788 is a good choice of day.

get over yourself and the destruction of Iraqi society is more the USA doing

Australia takes it up the arse!

Q. What's the difference between France's national day and Australia's national day?

A. France celebrates the tearing down of a prison and the emancipation of its citizens. Australia celebrates the establishment of a prison and the beginning of the destruction of aboriginal society.
mmm...The troll is strong in this one.

Australia takes it up the arse!

put a sock in it

put a sock in it
In your rectum?
Er no thanks...

Loads of national holidays are stupid anyway. The storming of the Bastille wasn't really as bigger event as it's made out to be, but that's not quite as stupid as the US celebrating collumbus day..

I agree that the events of Bastille Day led to the Terror, however the historical event itself was about freedom.

No, it wasn't. Bastille Day celebrates psychotic citizens destroying a government building (which they thought was going to be full of political prisoners, but instead housed a handful of legitimate convicts) and massacring innocent people in search of weapons with which to kill nobles and counter-revolutionaries. Yay freedom! :rolleyes:

In your rectum?
Er no thanks...

only you would think of turning that into what you have turn it into :p

only you would think of turning that into what you have turn it into :p
Alas, that might just be true.:(

The girl I'm in love with was born on Bastille Day.



Okay, I admit, that was very random, and a very stupid post, and I regret that I pressed "submit", but not enough to delete it.

No, it wasn't. Bastille Day celebrates psychotic citizens destroying a government building (which they thought was going to be full of political prisoners, but instead housed a handful of legitimate convicts) and massacring innocent people in search of weapons with which to kill nobles and counter-revolutionaries. Yay freedom! :rolleyes:

You have to admit, though--they really hated expensive bread.

Alas, that might just be true.:(

oh my that is just to sad to go on about

now i'm off to play with my lady

get over yourself and the destruction of Iraqi society is more the USA doing

i was in Australia when 9/11 (or 11/9 as they say in Oz) happened, and the bloodthirstiness exhibited by Howard and his clones (sorry, Cabinet) afterwards was fucking scary!
despite being one of the most geographically distant countries from (and therefore not even remotely threatened by) Iraq, John Howard couldn't sign up for America's latest war fast enough
also Australia's highly vocal support for both Afghanistan and Iraq, and constant championing of the false rhetoric from the US (eg WMDs in Iraq), helped Bush 'legitimise' the illegal war by quoting lists of allies (while simultaneously arguing that the US didn't need to respect international opinion as a means of ignoring disagreement)

i was in Australia when 9/11 (or 11/9 as they say in Oz) happened, and the bloodthirstiness exhibited by Howard and his clones (sorry, Cabinet) afterwards was fucking scary!
despite being one of the most geographically distant countries from (and therefore not even remotely threatened by) Iraq, John Howard couldn't sign up for America's latest war fast enough
also Australia's highly vocal support for both Afghanistan and Iraq, and constant championing of the false rhetoric from the US (eg WMDs in Iraq), helped Bush 'legitimise' the illegal war by quoting lists of allies (while simultaneously arguing that the US didn't need to respect international opinion as a means of ignoring disagreement)

Bloodthirsty? Stop being so dramatic. After 9/11 he agreed to help the US in Afghanistan to fight Al-Qaeda, whose radical ideologies did pose a threat to Australia. The ALP would have done the same thing. Also, what does this have to do with Australia Day?

i was in Australia when 9/11 (or 11/9 as they say in Oz) happened, and the bloodthirstiness exhibited by Howard and his clones (sorry, Cabinet) afterwards was fucking scary!
despite being one of the most geographically distant countries from (and therefore not even remotely threatened by) Iraq, John Howard couldn't sign up for America's latest war fast enough
also Australia's highly vocal support for both Afghanistan and Iraq, and constant championing of the false rhetoric from the US (eg WMDs in Iraq), helped Bush 'legitimise' the illegal war by quoting lists of allies (while simultaneously arguing that the US didn't need to respect international opinion as a means of ignoring disagreement)

no we call it 9/11
an your are right about Howard and his clones, but now days it's more of the USA going on about Iraq an sending more troops and telling the Iraqs government what to do then us

Bloodthirsty? Stop being so dramatic. After 9/11 he agreed to help the US in Afghanistan to fight Al-Qaeda, whose radical ideologies did pose a threat to Australia. The ALP would have done the same thing. Also, what does this have to do with Australia Day?

nice complete lack of response to the Iraq point

yes the ALP would indeed have done the same thing - this by no means makes it any more right, as current events in Iraq are demonstrating impressively

if al-qaeda truly posed a threat to Australia, that threat is far more likely to emanate from Indonesia than from Afghanistan - please explain how a landlocked middle-eastern nation can possibly actually threaten Australia

and this 'has to do with Australia Day' in the manner that most of the debate on this thread has been based around whether it's a day to celebrate or to sober
from the original post: "Australia celebrates the establishment of a prison and the beginning of the destruction of aboriginal society."

so i'm pointing out that australia has a lot of blood on its hands too

no we call it 9/11
an your are right about Howard and his clones, but now days it's more of the USA going on about Iraq an sending more troops and telling the Iraqs government what to do then us

i was referring to the way the US writes the date differently to Australia... meant to be irreverent

nice complete lack of response to the Iraq point

yes the ALP would indeed have done the same thing - this by no means makes it any more right, as current events in Iraq are demonstrating impressively

if al-qaeda truly posed a threat to Australia, that threat is far more likely to emanate from Indonesia than from Afghanistan - please explain how a landlocked middle-eastern nation can possibly actually threaten Australia

oh the dates

i don't trust whats going on in Indonesia one bit ,i say pull out of Afghanistan and Iraq an start to look at those near us
as for the ALP i'm just leaving that one alone as i have no idea

they had clean water, not pack in to a small drity cell no more
and the list of what it was like in 1788 prison and hulks goes on
That's not true. Sydney in 1788 was a nightmare: there was no ready supply of anything and the European settlers had no idea how to fend for themselves in such an exotic environment. Their earliest attempts at agriculture were consequently disastrous. So the convicts were still prisoners, but scared out of their wits.
http://assets.jolt.co.uk/forums/images/smilies/mp5.gif
Australia Day is probably the most offensively stupid celebration ever conceived of.

Speaking of prisons, even today Australia has the largest population of prisoners of Mother England (or poms, for short) in the world.

source (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/in_depth/brits_abroad/html/asia_pac.stm)

Speaking of prisons, even today Australia has the largest population of prisoners of Mother England (or poms, for short) in the world.

source (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/in_depth/brits_abroad/html/asia_pac.stm)
It also has the most Greeks(Notorious Gangsters) outside of Greece and Holocust surviving Jewry(People that complain).

Bloodthirsty? Stop being so dramatic. After 9/11 he agreed to help the US in Afghanistan to fight Al-Qaeda, whose radical ideologies did pose a threat to Australia. The ALP would have done the same thing. Also, what does this have to do with Australia Day?
Taleban(SP), i think, which was a crock of shit because yes They should have been removed from power for destroying cultural icons but for not handing over Ossama Bin Laden whom they may or may not have had in custody at the time, they offered to hand him over to a nuetral party but nooo, America/Bush/America needed someone to be punished instantly.
i was in Australia when 9/11 (or 11/9 as they say in Oz) happened, and the bloodthirstiness exhibited by Howard and his clones (sorry, Cabinet) afterwards was fucking scary!
despite being one of the most geographically distant countries from (and therefore not even remotely threatened by) Iraq, John Howard couldn't sign up for America's latest war fast enough
also Australia's highly vocal support for both Afghanistan and Iraq, and constant championing of the false rhetoric from the US (eg WMDs in Iraq), helped Bush 'legitimise' the illegal war by quoting lists of allies (while simultaneously arguing that the US didn't need to respect international opinion as a means of ignoring disagreement)
They say 9/11 because they are the puppet of America!

yeesh!

all I meant is that in Australia (and many other countries) 9/11 would normally mean the ninth of november

Interesting thread. ;)

Personally, I feel that it's legitimate to celebrate what you may see as the "birth" of an Australian nation... although in that case why not transfer your national day to Federation Day (January 1st)?

In any case, I do feel that Australians cannot properly celebrate without acknowledging the darker sides of Australian history - most notably the horrendous massacres, dispossession and kidnappings inflicted on Aboriginal Australians. I just hope that when the ALP gets back to power, things will move forward. (Virtually anything is better than "white blindfold", "let's be proud of everything our ancestors ever did" Howard)


source (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/in_depth/brits_abroad/html/asia_pac.stm)

Heh. I came across that a few weeks ago, and it's a really good idea of the BBC's. Apparently there are 2 British old-age pensioners living in Mongolia, and they're the only recorded Brits in the country.

It's an excuse to get drunk, what more does a national holiday need?

more booze

It's an excuse to get drunk, what more does a national holiday need?

Meh. The date was obv. chosen because of the first fleet, but the day itself celebrates Australia's positive history and values, not the settling of a penal colony.

This is how I see it too.

They say 9/11 because they are the puppet of America!

You're absolutely spot on there, sadly.

Interesting thread. ;)

Personally, I feel that it's legitimate to celebrate what you may see as the "birth" of an Australian nation... although in that case why not transfer your national day to Federation Day (January 1st)?

Because January 1st is already the New Year's Day public holiday. Switching it over wouldn't work, because everyone would still think of it as New Year's Day. Besides, we'd have one less public holiday. :eek: :(

In any case, I do feel that Australians cannot properly celebrate without acknowledging the darker sides of Australian history - most notably the horrendous massacres, dispossession and kidnappings inflicted on Aboriginal Australians. I just hope that when the ALP gets back to power, things will move forward. (Virtually anything is better than "white blindfold", "let's be proud of everything our ancestors ever did" Howard)

As I was saying in the other Australia Day thread, this does need to be acknowledged & addressed. I've really lost any sort of faith in the Labour Party over the last 5 years, so I'm really not confident that they will do anything about it.

Besides, we'd have one less public holiday.

Good point there. ;)


As I was saying in the other Australia Day thread, this does need to be acknowledged & addressed. I've really lost any sort of faith in the Labour Party over the last 5 years, so I'm really not confident that they will do anything about it.

On the other hand, it seems the Liberals definitely won't. There's more hope with Labour, surely? I know Keating's Redfern speech was a long time ago, but...

nice complete lack of response to the Iraq point

yes the ALP would indeed have done the same thing - this by no means makes it any more right, as current events in Iraq are demonstrating impressively

if al-qaeda truly posed a threat to Australia, that threat is far more likely to emanate from Indonesia than from Afghanistan - please explain how a landlocked middle-eastern nation can possibly actually threaten Australia


Just because Al-Quaeda in Afghanistan didn't pose as direct a threat as Indonesia is no reason we should not have helped. The USA wasn't direct risk from the Nazis in WW2 either. I'm pretty sure you would be bitching if some South-East Asian nations started bombing Australia and the US or England didn't help.

As for Iraq, I agree that was a mistake.

But why should any of this prevent us from celebrating what is good about Australia?

Just because Al-Quaeda in Afghanistan didn't pose as direct a threat as Indonesia is no reason we should not have helped. The USA wasn't direct risk from the Nazis in WW2 either. I'm pretty sure you would be bitching if some South-East Asian nations started bombing Australia and the US or England didn't help.

As for Iraq, I agree that was a mistake.

But why should any of this prevent us from celebrating what is good about Australia?

The Nazis did sort of declare war on the USA.

Personally, I feel that it's legitimate to celebrate what you may see as the "birth" of an Australian nation... although in that case why not transfer your national day to Federation Day (January 1st)?

Having a holiday on the same day as another holiday is just going to reduce the overall amount of days where you don't have to do anything...

Good point there. ;)



On the other hand, it seems the Liberals definitely won't. There's more hope with Labour, surely? I know Keating's Redfern speech was a long time ago, but...

I've become very cynical & disheartened by the Labour Party, so I don't really expect much good from them if they ever get back into power. The Liberals definitely won't do anything about it. Kif-kif.

And here I was, thinking that a Rush song would be put up against a national holiday.

*sigh*

Australia Day celebrates the founding of a nation in 1901, almost 100 years since we'd been penal colony,

Australian Bastille Day! Let's go raid Wacol and let everyone out... who's with me?! ...Just me then...?

Australian Bastille Day! Let's go raid Wacol and let everyone out... who's with me?! ...Just me then...?

Yep, go ahead, I'm right behind you.

Yep, go ahead, I'm right behind you.

Please Boony, no gay jokes

Q. What's the difference between France's national day and Australia's national day?

A. France celebrates the tearing down of a prison and the emancipation of its citizens. Australia celebrates the establishment of a prison and the beginning of the destruction of aboriginal society.Meh, you need to work on that... Emancipation of its citizens... I'm sure it was very emancipating to live during the proscription that followed the revolution.

They executed people like Antoine Lavoisier, claiming that 'The Republic has no need for men of science.'

get over yourself and the destruction of Iraqi society is more the USA doing

Get over yourself, period. As if the French had no stains on their national record. Hmm ... Haiti ... Algeria ... Indochina ... there's almost no nation on Earth whose hands are clean.

Get over yourself, period. As if the French had no stains on their national record. Hmm ... Haiti ... Algeria ... Indochina ... there's almost no nation on Earth whose hands are clean.

all Nations had a hand in some thing

we had a hand in Nam, we should have stopped the take over of Timor by Indonesian in 1975 but did not and the USA had a hand in Iraq way before the two wars

all Nations had a hand in some thing

we had a hand in Nam, we should have stopped the take over of Timor by Indonesian in 1975 but did not and the USA had a hand in Iraq way before the two wars

Exactly my point. Hell, the US is far from perfect but I am getting a little weary of having our mistakes shoved in our face all the time. :rolleyes:

Exactly my point. Hell, the US is far from perfect but I am getting a little weary of having our mistakes shoved in our face all the time. :rolleyes:

i know you would but i don't think the OP does

Just because Al-Quaeda in Afghanistan didn't pose as direct a threat as Indonesia is no reason we should not have helped. The USA wasn't direct risk from the Nazis in WW2 either. I'm pretty sure you would be bitching if some South-East Asian nations started bombing Australia and the US or England didn't help.

As for Iraq, I agree that was a mistake.

But why should any of this prevent us from celebrating what is good about Australia?

when exactly did afghanistan start bombing anyone?

The Nazis did sort of declare war on the USA.

And Al-Queada on the West and several times Australia directly. Also, the Nazis were a long way from posing any direct threat to the US homeland, while the Taliban government was working with bin Laden to train militants and terrorists.

when exactly did afghanistan start bombing anyone?

I stand by my analogy. By bombing I obv. mean any sort of attack or declaration of war or major preventable threat against us. And if there was and the US or UK didn't help you would be there bitching about it.