NationStates Jolt Archive

POLITICIANS, WRITERS BACK COUNTER TO CHANG'S 'RAPE'
Filmmaker to paint Nanjing slaughter as just myth


By JUN HONGO
Staff writer
About 40 people, including Diet members, university professors and critics, rallied Wednesday behind a Japanese director's plan to shoot a film putting his spin on the Nanjing Massacre in which he claims the butchery of Chinese by the Japanese Imperial Army is nothing more than political propaganda.

In a news conference held to "strike back against an erroneous understanding of history," people including Upper House members Hirofumi Ryu and Jin Matsubara gathered to support Satoru Mizushima, director and producer of "Nanking No Shinjitsu" ("The Truth About Nanjing"), which will depict the filmmaker's account of what took place in 1937.

Though not present at the news conference held at a hotel in Chiyoda Ward, Tokyo, supporters of the film also include Tokyo Gov. Shintaro Ishihara and well-known journalist Yoshiko Sakurai.

"Gov. Ishihara has shown his keen support and I am very thankful," said Mizushima, 57, who has taken part in the production of more than 300 films and documentaries, including the 1995 war epic "Minami No Shima Ni Yuki Ga Furu."

"I feel a huge responsibility to spread a correct understanding of history," the director reckoned.

Most historians see the ruling by the International Military Tribunal for the Far East as the commonly accepted version of events. It stated that more than 200,000 Chinese were victims in the Nanjing Massacre perpetrated by the Imperial army. However, the number of people killed and other facts about the incident have been debated for decades.

Mizushima's announcement follows the screening of "Nanking" earlier this month at the Sundance Film Festival in the U.S. The documentary received rave reviews for portraying the slaughter of Chinese by Japanese soldiers.

The movie features interviews with Nanjing residents as well as filmed stage readings by Hollywood actors Woody Harrelson and Mariel Hemingway, granddaughter of author Ernest Hemingway.

But Mizushima, who sees the release of "Nanking" as a "setup by China to control intelligence," claims that film is based on fabrications and gives a false impression that Japanese soldiers committed atrocities and were evil.

He said he feels obliged to counter that film by making his own, which he said will tell the world what really happened.

"The anti-Japan propaganda will spread all over the world and become an established fact. That would not only put shame on the Japanese people but also disgrace those who fought in the war, which is unacceptable," Mizushima said.

Upper House member Ryu of the Democratic Party of Japan agreed, claiming "many people show no concern regarding the issue, but correct history and the truth must be brought out."

Mizushima's film, scheduled to hit theaters in December in commemoration of the 70th anniversary of the fall of Nanjing to Japanese forces, will feature interviews, documentary footage and re-enactments by actors.

But the director vowed the movie won't be bigoted or spread anti-Chinese ideology.

"A part of history is being distorted. My goal will be to tell the facts as they are," he claimed.

Using documentaries to spread different interpretations of history has been a common occurrence, he said.

In 1998, a film featuring the life of wartime leader Gen. Hideki Tojo -- which critics said tried to glorify Japan's wartime role -- was released simultaneously with the Chinese-Hong Kong film "Don't Cry, Nanking," which portrayed the sufferings of a Chinese family in Nanjing during the 1930s.

When Iris Chang's controversial nonfiction book "The Rape of Nanking" was published in late 1997, conservative scholars held a news conference in Tokyo to point out historical inaccuracies they claimed it contained. Chang's book is expected to be released as a feature film in 2008.
http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20070125a3.html

I take comfort in knowing that most Japanese ackowledge the Rape of Nanking and what happened there (If there's an argument on where to place the death toll). I take comfort in knowing that such stupidity and blindness to historical facts are not only in Japan. But when I read something like this, I'm just left wondering why. Why do some people go out of their way to deny what is right in front of their nose? Why can they not SEE?

AAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!

Just had to get that out. Thoughts?

China's going to love this.

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20070125a3.html

I take comfort in knowing that most Japanese ackowledge the Rape of Nanking and what happened there (If there's an argument on where to place the death toll). I take comfort in knowing that such stupidity and blindness to historical facts are not only in Japan. But when I read something like this, I'm just left wondering why. Why do some people go out of their way to deny what is right in front of their nose? Why can they not SEE?

AAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!

Just had to get that out. Thoughts?

This is like the Japanese equivalent of Holocaust denial. Of course the Japanese have always been honest and forthwith about their actions during WWII. I seem to recall a row about schoolbooks teaching children that "the women went with them" in discussions about conscripted women as prostitutes and lots of alternate history regarding Pearl Harbor.

China's going to love this.

I'm torn.

Denying the nasty bits of history is so incredibly distasteful, but driving the PRC and Japan apart is so strategically useful that I almost want this to happen.

China's going to love this.

That's a bit of an understatement...

Actually, in Mizushima's defence, the communist party of China has skewed historical facts through political propaganda and have embellished the details about its history with Japan. While I'm not disputing the events of Nanjing in 1937, I am disputing the fact that China is being fully honest, and I believe they may have gone overboard on a few details in order to ensure its populace has a healthy hatred of Japan.

There are people out there who have an intense psychological need to deny the truth, and I'd say it's pretty certain that this director and others who try to deny atrocities fall in to that category.

Of course, the bigger question is why they do...

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20070125a3.html

I take comfort in knowing that most Japanese ackowledge the Rape of Nanking and what happened there (If there's an argument on where to place the death toll). I take comfort in knowing that such stupidity and blindness to historical facts are not only in Japan. But when I read something like this, I'm just left wondering why. Why do some people go out of their way to deny what is right in front of their nose? Why can they not SEE?

AAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!

Just had to get that out. Thoughts?

You can see that sort of behaviour in almost every thread in NSG : when in the wrong, doubt the sources of the others. Provide your own, no matter where you pull them from. When in a hurry, make them up.

It's universal human behaviour, I'm afraid. It takes a lot of effort to get over.

This won't be the first time Japan's distorted history. From what I here, the memorial days to Hiroshima and Nagasaki are basically acting like America just flipped out and bombed them out of nowhere.

This won't be the first time Japan's distorted history. From what I here, the memorial days to Hiroshima and Nagasaki are basically acting like America just flipped out and bombed them out of nowhere.

Hiroshima was a planned target; Nagasaki wasn't, and it happened because it was the first place the pilot saw due to the fact that there was an overcast on his initial target. The pilot had to lighten his load and was running low on fuel from the run to drop the a-bomb.

From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki#Choice_of_targets)...

The Target Committee at Los Alamos on May 10–11, 1945, recommended Kyoto, Hiroshima, Yokohama, and the arsenal at Kokura as possible targets. The committee rejected the use of the weapon against a strictly military objective because of the chance of missing a small target not surrounded by a larger urban area.
...
Hiroshima was chosen because of its large size, its being "an important army depot" and the potential that the bomb would cause greater destruction because the city was surrounded by hills which would have a "focusing effect".

It seems that when the Americans hit Nagasaki, they were uninformed of a POW camp... Puts a whole new meaning to 'friendly fire'.

To the north of Nagasaki there was a camp holding British Commonwealth prisoners of war, some of which were working in the coal mines and only found out about the bombing when they came to the surface. At least eight known POWs died from the bombing.

Hiroshima was a planned target; Nagasaki wasn't, and it happened because it was the first place the pilot saw due to the fact that there was an overcast on his initial target. The pilot had to lighten his load and was running low on fuel from the run to drop the a-bomb.

From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki#Choice_of_targets)...

The Target Committee at Los Alamos on May 10–11, 1945, recommended Kyoto, Hiroshima, Yokohama, and the arsenal at Kokura as possible targets. The committee rejected the use of the weapon against a strictly military objective because of the chance of missing a small target not surrounded by a larger urban area.
...
Hiroshima was chosen because of its large size, its being "an important army depot" and the potential that the bomb would cause greater destruction because the city was surrounded by hills which would have a "focusing effect".


I honestly didn't know that, although I knew that Nagasaki was a pretty odd choice to set off an atomic bomb over. The topography would limit the effect of the blast, and since the US was doing it for the demonstrative purposes of obliterating cities with one plane, that wouldn't be a city I'd choose using the rationale that was used in picking city-targets.

Imagine if they tried to make a movie in Germany denying the holocaust if it were legal to do so.
You wouldn’t get government officials supporting it.

No, I meant the memorials basically act like the Japanese did nothing wrong, and America attacked some random country.

No, I meant the memorials basically act like the Japanese did nothing wrong, and America attacked some random country.
That's fair enough.

That's fair enough.

It's fair enough I meant that, or fair enough that it appears Japan did nothing wrong?

Saying Japan did nothing wrong is like saying Germany did nothing wrong. They did similar things to the Holocaust to the Chinese.

It's fair enough I meant that, or fair enough that it appears Japan did nothing wrong?
Your statement. I wanted to be clear as to what you meant.

Imagine if they tried to make a movie in Germany denying the holocaust if it were legal to do so.
You wouldn’t get government officials supporting it.
That person would probably be stoned to death in the streets by Antifa or something.

No, I meant the memorials basically act like the Japanese did nothing wrong, and America attacked some random country.
Actually no (Though I cannot speak to the memorial in Nagasaki) but the Hiroshima Memorial covers the war and the lead up quite well.

You can see that sort of behaviour in almost every thread in NSG : when in the wrong, doubt the sources of the others. Provide your own, no matter where you pull them from. When in a hurry, make them up.

It's universal human behaviour, I'm afraid. It takes a lot of effort to get over.
I can understand about political points or reasons why events took place, but this is refusing to admit that said event took place in the first place. I know we get some deniers from time to time, but every time I see them on the board it always astounds me that they will not accept what happened no matter how much evidence we dump on them.

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20070125a3.html

I take comfort in knowing that most Japanese ackowledge the Rape of Nanking and what happened there (If there's an argument on where to place the death toll). I take comfort in knowing that such stupidity and blindness to historical facts are not only in Japan. But when I read something like this, I'm just left wondering why. Why do some people go out of their way to deny what is right in front of their nose? Why can they not SEE?

AAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!

Just had to get that out. Thoughts?

These shitheads should be castrated or otherwise sterilized. Don't want more people like them in the gene pool.

"...That would not only put shame on the Japanese people but also disgrace those who fought in the war, which is unacceptable," Mizushima said.
I think this statement pretty much sums up everything that is wrong with Japanese culture:
Their culture's obsession and devotion to the concept of losing/gaining face which has strait-jacket'd their society.
It's distorted their values and judgement and caused so much problems in their society.

In this case, it's denying Japan did anything wrong during the war due to some convoluted mendacious belief that in admiting this, you are bringing shame upon yourself, your ancestors and your country. Ironically, the opposite actually occurs - the rest of the world loses respect for Japan through these actions and statements. But that's by-the-by, as it's just a convenient means used to support and excuse their decision, but it's never the real reason behind their actions.

karoshi and hikikomori are two other extreme manifestations of this really f**ked up system.

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20070125a3.html

I take comfort in knowing that most Japanese ackowledge the Rape of Nanking and what happened there (If there's an argument on where to place the death toll). I take comfort in knowing that such stupidity and blindness to historical facts are not only in Japan. But when I read something like this, I'm just left wondering why. Why do some people go out of their way to deny what is right in front of their nose? Why can they not SEE?

AAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!

Just had to get that out. Thoughts?

It's like a battered wife who claims that deep down her husband really loves her. It's just self delusion. It's like Holocaust deniers or people who think that the Swift Boat Vetrans For Truth were swift, vetrans, or truthful.

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20070125a3.html

I take comfort in knowing that most Japanese ackowledge the Rape of Nanking and what happened there (If there's an argument on where to place the death toll). I take comfort in knowing that such stupidity and blindness to historical facts are not only in Japan. But when I read something like this, I'm just left wondering why. Why do some people go out of their way to deny what is right in front of their nose? Why can they not SEE?

AAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!

Just had to get that out. Thoughts?

Saw that in the Yomiuri, I think.

Indeed, most Japanese do acknowledge it. From yesterday's Asahi:
Nearly 80 percent of voters feel a sense of patriotism, while about 85 percent say there is "a need to reflect" upon Japan's past colonial rule and wartime aggression, an Asahi Shimbun survey showed.
http://www.asahi.com/english/Herald-asahi/TKY200701250129.html

Actually, in Mizushima's defence, the communist party of China has skewed historical facts through political propaganda and have embellished the details about its history with Japan. While I'm not disputing the events of Nanjing in 1937, I am disputing the fact that China is being fully honest, and I believe they may have gone overboard on a few details in order to ensure its populace has a healthy hatred of Japan.

Indeed, it serves the purposes of the CCP to whip up antui-Japanese feelings in order to distract the populace from it's own failures to deal with problems like corruption and unbalanced economic growth.

Hiroshima was a planned target; Nagasaki wasn't, and it happened because it was the first place the pilot saw due to the fact that there was an overcast on his initial target. The pilot had to lighten his load and was running low on fuel from the run to drop the a-bomb.

Not quite. Nagasaki was the official secondary target, not just some convenient place to get rid of it. It was hit because the cloud cover at Kitakyushu. The plan if they weren't able to hit Nagasaki was to dump the bomb in the sea near Okinawa.

TOP SECRET

DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 11652, Secs 3(E) and 5(D) or (E)
NND 730039
By ERC NARS, Date 6-4-74



25 July 1945


TO: General Carl Spaatz
Commanding General
United States Army Strategic Air Forces

1. The 509 Composite Group, 20th Air Force will
deliver its first special bomb as soon as weather will
permit visual bombing after about 3 August 1945 on one of the
targets: Hiroshima, Kokura, Niigata and Nagasaki. To
carry military and civilian scientific personnel from the
War Department to observe and record the effects of the
explosion of the bomb, additional aircraft will accompany
the airplane carrying the bomb. The observing planes will
stay several miles distant from the point of impact of the
bomb.

2. Additional bombs will be delivered on the above
targets as soon as made ready by the project staff. Further
instructions will be issued concerning targets other than
those listed above.

3. Discussion of any and all information concerning
the use of the weapon against Japan is reserved to the
Secretary of War and the President of the United States.
No communiques on the subject or releases of information
will be issued by Commanders in the field without specific
prior authority. Any news stories will be sent to the War
Department for specific clearance.

4. The foregoing directive is issued to you by direc-
tion and with the approval of the Secretary of War and of
the Chief of Staff, USA. It is desired that you personally
deliver one copy of this directive to General MacArthur and
one copy to Admiral Nimitz for their information.

(Sgd) THOS. T. HANDY

THOS. T. HANDY
General, G.S.C.
Acting Chief of Staff

copy for General Groves


TOP SECRET
http://www.dannen.com/decision/handy.html

Also, your own link above explains it as well.
On the morning of August 9, 1945, the U.S. B-29 Superfortress Bockscar, flown by the crew of 393rd Squadron commander Major Charles W. Sweeney, carried the nuclear bomb code-named "Fat Man", with Kokura as the primary target and Nagasaki the secondary target. The mission plan for the second attack was nearly identical to that of the Hiroshima mission, with two B-29's flying an hour ahead as weather scouts and two additional B-29's in Sweeney's flight for instrumentation and photographic support of the mission. Sweeney took off with his weapon already armed but with the electrical safety plugs still engaged.[27]

Observers aboard the weather planes reported both targets clear. When Sweeney's aircraft arrived at the assembly point for his flight off the coast of Japan, the third plane (flown by the group's Operations Officer, Lt. Col. James I. Hopkins, Jr.) failed to make the rendezvous. Bockscar and the instrumentation plane circled for forty minutes without locating Hopkins. Already thirty minutes behind schedule, Sweeney decided to fly on without Hopkins.[27]

By the time they reached Kokura a half hour later, a 7/10 cloud cover had obscured the city, prohibiting the visual attack required by orders. After three runs over the city, and with fuel running low because a transfer pump on a reserve tank had failed before take-off, they headed for their secondary target, Nagasaki.[27] Fuel consumption calculations made en route indicated that Bockscar had insufficient fuel to reach Iwo Jima and they would be forced to divert to Okinawa. After initially deciding that if Nagasaki were obscured on their arrival they would carry the bomb to Okinawa and dispose of it in the ocean if necessary, the weaponeer Navy Commander Frederick Ashworth decided that a radar approach would be used if the target was obscured.[28]

I honestly didn't know that, although I knew that Nagasaki was a pretty odd choice to set off an atomic bomb over. The topography would limit the effect of the blast, and since the US was doing it for the demonstrative purposes of obliterating cities with one plane, that wouldn't be a city I'd choose using the rationale that was used in picking city-targets.

Nagasaki was choosen for a number of reasons: it was an important port, there were several important munitions industries located there (primarily the Mitsubishi Steel and Arms Works and the Mitsubishi-Urakami Ordnance Works(, and the "schedule" of heavy bombing hadn't reached it yet. (Regarding that that last point, the USAAF was basically in the process of leveling every Japanese city through firebombing, starting with Tokyo and working their way through them. That's also one of the reasons why the other targets were chosen.)

No, I meant the memorials basically act like the Japanese did nothing wrong, and America attacked some random country.

That's a gross exageration that not even Yasukuni's Yushukan museum (infamous for it's nationalistic revisionist take on the war) presents.

Actually no (Though I cannot speak to the memorial in Nagasaki) but the Hiroshima Memorial covers the war and the lead up quite well.

I haven't been to either of the memorial service ceremonies, but I have been to the Nagasaki Peace Park and the Nagasaki Atomic Bomb Museum, and they certainlyt do not present any such views. They do, of course concentrate on the bombing (afterall, it's the Nagasaki Atomic Bomb Museum, and not the Pacific War Museum), but they most definately include good exhibits on what led to the war and what led to the bombing. In fact, my personal impression is that

It is unfortunate that some people engage in historical revisionism of this sort. Japanese who downplay atrocities committed against fellow Asians, Turks who deny the Armenian holocaust, Afrikaaners (and other White nationalists) who refuse to accept that apartheid was wrong and unjust, and people who deny other crimes against humanity. There are two things I'd like to add though.

The first, Japan is a democratic country so any delusional and crazy individual is free to make a spectacle of himself if he chooses. We should never censor views because they are inaccurate or just plain ridiculous. Falsehoods must be combated with facts not censorship and hysteria.

The second, what would happen to a film maker in China who challenged the official story that "Tibet was always a part of China and no human rights abuses were ever visited upon the Tibetan people by the Chinese army"?? While there will always be individuals who wish to re-write history in Japan, the Chinese government engages in plenty of historical revisionism of its own and prosecutes those who seek to bring the truth to light.

It is unfortunate that some people engage in historical revisionism of this sort. Japanese who downplay atrocities committed against fellow Asians, Turks who deny the Armenian holocaust, Afrikaaners (and other White nationalists) who refuse to accept that apartheid was wrong and unjust, and people who deny other crimes against humanity. There are two things I'd like to add though.

The first, Japan is a democratic country so any delusional and crazy individual is free to make a spectacle of himself if he chooses. We should never censor views because they are inaccurate or just plain ridiculous. Falsehoods must be combated with facts not censorship and hysteria.

The second, what would happen to a film maker in China who challenged the official story that "Tibet was always a part of China and no human rights abuses were ever visited upon the Tibetan people by the Chinese army"?? While there will always be individuals who wish to re-write history in Japan, the Chinese government engages in plenty of historical revisionism of its own and prosecutes those who seek to bring the truth to light.

Good points, both.
(Long time no see!)

I can understand about political points or reasons why events took place, but this is refusing to admit that said event took place in the first place. I know we get some deniers from time to time, but every time I see them on the board it always astounds me that they will not accept what happened no matter how much evidence we dump on them.

I tend to put such behaviour down to personality issues, in most cases a huge complex of inferiority that has to be overcompensated by identifying with any given group that is believed to represent the ideal the individual would like to claim as their own. If the group fails to live up to said ideal, denial kicks in.
Any overzealous patriot or outright nationalist can demonstrate what I'm talking about.

It is unfortunate that some people engage in historical revisionism of this sort. Japanese who downplay atrocities committed against fellow Asians, Turks who deny the Armenian holocaust, Afrikaaners (and other White nationalists) who refuse to accept that apartheid was wrong and unjust, and people who deny other crimes against humanity. There are two things I'd like to add though.

The first, Japan is a democratic country so any delusional and crazy individual is free to make a spectacle of himself if he chooses. We should never censor views because they are inaccurate or just plain ridiculous. Falsehoods must be combated with facts not censorship and hysteria.

The second, what would happen to a film maker in China who challenged the official story that "Tibet was always a part of China and no human rights abuses were ever visited upon the Tibetan people by the Chinese army"?? While there will always be individuals who wish to re-write history in Japan, the Chinese government engages in plenty of historical revisionism of its own and prosecutes those who seek to bring the truth to light.
I wasn't attempting to single out Japan alone in this (or suggest any censorship). The article appeared in this morning's Japan Times and just left me giving an exasperated yell after I read it, but more towards ALL who engage in such things.

It's fair enough I meant that, or fair enough that it appears Japan did nothing wrong?

Saying Japan did nothing wrong is like saying Germany did nothing wrong. They did similar things to the Holocaust to the Chinese.

What?
Are you suggesting that anyone other than the Jews suffered under the Nazi regime?
How anti-Semetic of you...

Just imagine the world-wide outrage if this were to happen in Germany.

I'm torn.

Denying the nasty bits of history is so incredibly distasteful, but driving the PRC and Japan apart is so strategically useful that I almost want this to happen.
Why?

Just imagine the world-wide outrage if this were to happen in Germany.
I assume there would also be plenty of outrage in Germany.

Hiroshima was a planned target; Nagasaki wasn't, and it happened because it was the first place the pilot saw due to the fact that there was an overcast on his initial target. The pilot had to lighten his load and was running low on fuel from the run to drop the a-bomb.

With that, they moved from Kokura and moved on to Nagasaki, its secondary target if the primary was unable to be bombed.

From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki#Choice_of_targets)...

The Target Committee at Los Alamos on May 10–11, 1945, recommended Kyoto, Hiroshima, Yokohama, and the arsenal at Kokura as possible targets. The committee rejected the use of the weapon against a strictly military objective because of the chance of missing a small target not surrounded by a larger urban area.
...
Hiroshima was chosen because of its large size, its being "an important army depot" and the potential that the bomb would cause greater destruction because the city was surrounded by hills which would have a "focusing effect".

From General Spaatz in the same article. On July 25 General Carl Spaatz was ordered to bomb one of the targets: Hiroshima, Kokura, Niigata, or Nagasaki as soon after August 3 as weather permitted and the remaining cities as additional weapons became available.[10]

It seems that when the Americans hit Nagasaki, they were uninformed of a POW camp... Puts a whole new meaning to 'friendly fire'.

To the north of Nagasaki there was a camp holding British Commonwealth prisoners of war, some of which were working in the coal mines and only found out about the bombing when they came to the surface. At least eight known POWs died from the bombing.

Yep. However, one must remember that they were moving prisoners about to prevent bombings of their cities.

I'd honestly be happy if Japan would own up to Unit 731.

I assume there would also be plenty of outrage in Germany.
Oh yes. And I'd be part of those voicing their outrage.

With that, they moved from Kokura and moved on to Nagasaki, its secondary target if the primary was unable to be bombed.
...
Yep. However, one must remember that they were moving prisoners about to prevent bombings of their cities.

Yes, they kept POWs near cities, except they didn't have POW camps anywhere near Hiroshima. It was the only city in the list of proposed that had no camp there.

Then there was Nagasaki; a hell of a secondary target - especially given that a handful of unknown survivors from Hiroshima had fled there. :p Talk about extremely back luck. (I'm not making light of it; I just thought I'd share a random fact).

In my previous post, I was only talking about primary targets, which is why I left out Nagasaki. And based on history it seems that when they couldn't drop the bomb on Kokura, the pilots moved out to check Nagasaki and it too was cloudy despite initial reports from weather planes that gave the all-clear signal. They dropped the bomb at the last second because of a break in the clouds.

I assume there would also be plenty of outrage in Germany.

Most of it, I guess. Most of the rest of the world wouldn't really care it seems to me.

I'd honestly be happy if Japan would own up to Unit 731.

The Japanese people never committed any atrocities, ever, anywhere. -Official Japanese sentiment.

The Japanese people seem mostly rational about this...but they need to stop letting idiots speak for them. It's really hurting their reputation, and now the whole nation looks like people who think that their WW2 campaign was completely clean and absent of atrocities.

The Japanese government also seems to have issued only partial apologies for their past behavior...they claim that they are sorry for the suffering and what-not but don't say anything about violating international law. Whether the people of Japan feel the same was is a bit unclear.

Bastards. That's the Japanese equivalent of skinhead neo-Nazi Holocaust denial, of a sort that would not be accepted in Europe.

The Japanese people never committed any atrocities, ever, anywhere. -Official Japanese sentiment.
No, the official position is acknowledging that Japan DID in fact commit atrocities.

Most of it, I guess. Most of the rest of the world wouldn't really care it seems to me.

How do you figure? Holocaust denial is a good way to get yourself labeled a lunatic in the US, at least, and if a socially conservative position is considered crazy in the US I can only assume that most everyone else probably sees it as crazy and/or stupid as well.

No, the official position is acknowledging that Japan DID in fact commit atrocities.
Yet they're still quite happy to honour war criminals found guilty of said atrocities.

Yet they're still quite happy to honour war criminals found guilty of said atrocities.
If you are referring to Yasukuni, note that said shrine is private, not public. I don't like how Koizumi visited there either, but you can hardly say that the government is going out of its way to honor those class As.

How do you figure? Holocaust denial is a good way to get yourself labeled a lunatic in the US, at least, and if a socially conservative position is considered crazy in the US I can only assume that most everyone else probably sees it as crazy and/or stupid as well.

Do you see much of a general uproar anywhere right now because of that Japanese movie?
Do you expect to be much international notice and concern when it gets released?
It would be much the same with a German movie. Apart from a mention in a newspaper, it would be very unlikely to even reach any other country, so the international public probably wouldn't take much notice.
The German public would, though. German politics would. There'd be Lichterketten in the streets in no time, it would instantly be the number one topic of German public life, it might lead to a few new laws being put in place and every public figure would get a couple seconds airtime to express their concerns about the message of this movie.

In my previous post, I was only talking about primary targets, which is why I left out Nagasaki. And based on history it seems that when they couldn't drop the bomb on Kokura, the pilots moved out to check Nagasaki and it too was cloudy despite initial reports from weather planes that gave the all-clear signal. They dropped the bomb at the last second because of a break in the clouds.

The language of your earlier post (and of this one, I might add) implies that Nagasaki was an afterthought, not the official secondary. It may seem like spliting hairs to you, but it's a matter of accuracy.

The Japanese people never committed any atrocities, ever, anywhere. -Official Japanese sentiment.

Bullshit. I challenge you to provide any official statement from the Japanese government to support your claim.

Bastards. That's the Japanese equivalent of skinhead neo-Nazi Holocaust denial, of a sort that would not be accepted in Europe.

Indeed it is.

Yet they're still quite happy to honour war criminals found guilty of said atrocities.

Tricky tightrope territory, there. Let's just say I'd be much happier if no Japanese visited Yasukuni ever again. :mad:

If you are referring to Yasukuni, note that said shrine is private, not public. I don't like how Koizumi visited there either, but you can hardly say that the government is going out of its way to honor those class As.

Yet Emperor Showa never visited Yasukuni after the revalation that war criminals had been enshrined - expressly because of that. Emperor Akihito has yet to do so, I suspect for similar reasons. If it's enough for the emperor who oversaw the war, it should be enough for the PM. Fortunately, I know quite a few Japanese who agree.

It's like a battered wife who claims that deep down her husband really loves her. It's just self delusion. It's like Holocaust deniers or people who think that the Swift Boat Vetrans For Truth were swift, vetrans, or truthful.
How did you revert from New Domici? Is this another symptom of the time warp?

Do you see much of a general uproar anywhere right now because of that Japanese movie?
Do you expect to be much international notice and concern when it gets released?
It would be much the same with a German movie. Apart from a mention in a newspaper, it would be very unlikely to even reach any other country, so the international public probably wouldn't take much notice.
The German public would, though. German politics would. There'd be Lichterketten in the streets in no time, it would instantly be the number one topic of German public life, it might lead to a few new laws being put in place and every public figure would get a couple seconds airtime to express their concerns about the message of this movie.
The reason most Americans aren’t outraged by this movie is because most Americans don’t even know about the Rape of Nanking. However, the holocaust is a really big deal for most Americans and is constantly mentioned in the mainstream media.