NationStates Jolt Archive

Dude...ANTI PERSONAL HEAT RAY? This sounds pretty cool, even though it'll probably be used to torture people and blast peaceful demonstraters.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/01/24/ray.gun.ap/index.html

MOODY AIR FORCE BASE, Georgia (AP) -- The military's new weapon is a ray gun that shoots a beam that makes people feel as if they will catch fire.

The technology is supposed to be harmless -- a non-lethal way to get enemies to drop their weapons.

Military officials say it could save the lives of civilians and service members in places like Iraq and Afghanistan.

The weapon is not expected to go into production until at least 2010, but all branches of the military have expressed interest in it, officials said.
During the first media demonstration of the weapon Wednesday, airmen fired beams from a large dish antenna mounted atop a Humvee at people pretending to be rioters and acting out other scenarios U.S. troops might encounter.

The crew fired beams from more than 500 yards (455 meters) away, nearly 17 times the range of existing non-lethal weapons, such as rubber bullets.

While the sudden, 130-degree Fahrenheit (54.44 Celsius) heat was not painful, it was intense enough to make participants think their clothes were about to ignite......


The system uses millimeter waves, which can penetrate only 1/64th of an inch of skin, just enough to cause discomfort. By comparison, common kitchen microwaves penetrate several inches of skin.

The millimeter waves cannot go through walls, but they can penetrate most clothing, officials said. They refused to comment on whether the waves can go through glass.

Two airmen and 10 reporters volunteered to be zapped with the beams, which easily penetrated various layers of winter clothing.

I really don't care what super high-tech. toys the military gets.

Where are our Jetpacks? Our flying cars? Our robotic slaves which will one day rise up and murder us in our beds?

Sorry our sci fi dreams?

Naa man mine are a lot ummm stranger.;)

When I first read about that, my first reaction was: "How very strange..."

Talking of sci-fi dreams I was hoping a Singularity was nigh.

T-minus 13 years...hell, given some of the stuff I've read recently, we're going to be advancing even faster than that.

I mean, HP's found a way to prolong Moore's Law by three generations without shrinking transistors, and chemists at UCLA have developed an early molecular memory device with potential capacity estimated at levels not expected until 2020 or so. And that's in the past week.

It seems somewhat impractical right now, it's quite large.


Talking of sci-fi dreams I was hoping a Singularity was nigh.

Gom Jabbar, anyone?

Sounds like the Gom Jabbar.

Actually, the gom jabbar was the needle coated in poison that Gaius Helen Mohiam threatened to kill Paul with if he pulled his hand out of the box that created the sensation of it burning. Alia also uses it to kill Baron Harkonnen in the end of Dune.

Actually, the gom jabbar was the needle coated in poison that Gaius Helen Mohiam threatened to kill Paul with if he pulled his hand out of the box that created the sensation of it burning. Alia also uses it to kill Baron Harkonnen in the end of Dune.

What was the box called, as I cannot remember the name.

What was the box called, as I cannot remember the name.

I'm not 100%, but I don't actually think it had a name.

T-minus 13 years...hell, given some of the stuff I've read recently, we're going to be advancing even faster than that.

I mean, HP's found a way to prolong Moore's Law by three generations without shrinking transistors, and chemists at UCLA have developed an early molecular memory device with potential capacity estimated at levels not expected until 2020 or so. And that's in the past week.

It cannot happen fast enough, I certainly hope it's within my lifetime.

It cannot happen fast enough, I certainly hope it's within my lifetime.

The faster, the better, and given the advances recently I'd say we may even be overestimating the amount of time needed.

This is going to be one of the greatest times in human history; things are going to get a whole lot better If you can survive for a decade, I'd say you'll be in the clear. Medical technology is advancing very quickly, and with good health and lifestyle choices, it should be a given.

It'll definitely be in my lifetime, since I'll be only 30 in 2018.

Until the Botany Bay leaves earth orbit, we aren't on the historical path to fulfill the great future presented in Star Trek.

I'm not 100%, but I don't actually think it had a name.

I vote for "Crazy Box o' injury-free Pain!"

Your dream is to be microwaved by the police at a distance?

I didn't realize I had any sci-fi dreams, other than the end of humanity. That's more of a sense of foreboding, rather than a dream, though.

I'm only 26, I plan to live to see the Singularity, but you never know, I could be run over by a truck today.

WTF is the Singularity? (I'm a Dune/Brave New World sci-fi nerd.)

Until the Botany Bay leaves earth orbit, we aren't on the historical path to fulfill the great future presented in Star Trek.

Star Trek is entirely too primitive to be anything close to an accurate vision of the future. Their medical and computer technology is a joke.


I'm only 26, I plan to live to see the Singularity, but you never know, I could be run over by a truck today.

Actually, the gom jabbar was the needle coated in poison that Gaius Helen Mohiam threatened to kill Paul with if he pulled his hand out of the box that created the sensation of it burning. Alia also uses it to kill Baron Harkonnen in the end of Dune.

I'm not 100%, but I don't actually think it had a name.

Exactamundo, What I can't remember is how Alia got her hands on one, as they are typically given only to Reverend Mothers....

Exactamundo, What I can't remember is how Alia got her hands on one, as they are typically given only to Reverend Mothers....

Especially considering she was utterly evil; she was Abomination, after all, and the Bene Gesserit wanted nothing more than to have her destroyed. Of course, it's possible Paul gave it to her with the intention of her using it against the Baron. It's never made particularly clear in the novel.

Shame, I hoped you spoke about Barbarella. (http://www2.noticiasdot.com/stilo/contenido/noticias/2004/0804/2308/images/barbarella.jpg)

Especially considering she was utterly evil; she was Abomination, after all, and the Bene Gesserit wanted nothing more than to have her destroyed.

She wasn't an abomination at that point, undergoing the spice agony as a fetus doesn't automatically turn you into an abomination. She became an abomination after Paul became emperor. When she was thirty-something the same old Baron Harkonnen she killed started talking to her, then the Bene Gesserit started actively seeking her death.

Weapon seems a good idea, but on close inspection has anyone thought about what microwaves do, if your carrying a metallic object a microwave beam will heat rapidly probably burning the person carrying it. Handy if they are carrying a weapon, but not so handy if they simply have some loose change in their pocket.

She wasn't an abomination at that point, undergoing the spice agony as a fetus doesn't automatically turn you into an abomination. She became an abomination after Paul became emperor. When she was thirty-something the same old Baron Harkonnen she killed started talking to her, then the Bene Gesserit started actively seeking her death.

True. More accurately, what happened was that the spice agony changed her in the womb, enabling the minds existent in her Other Memory to possess her. In this case, it was the Baron Harkonnen who possessed her and that was what made her in to an abomination.

The Singularity is the point when intelligence (specifically AI) becomes sufficiently advanced that it creates ever greater intelligence.
Oh, I thought it had something to do with teleportation or a "Hyperdrive", which would allow us to colonize the solar system.

to build(ing) a giant Matrioshka Brain.

A what?

(I apologize for my ignorance)

What was the box called, as I cannot remember the name.

In "Heretics of Dune" it is called the agony box.

Weapon seems a good idea, but on close inspection has anyone thought about what microwaves do, if your carrying a metallic object a microwave beam will heat rapidly probably burning the person carrying it. Handy if they are carrying a weapon, but not so handy if they simply have some loose change in their pocket.

You don't know how microwaves work.

WTF is the Singularity? (I'm a Dune/Brave New World sci-fi nerd.)

The Singularity is the point when intelligence (specifically AI) becomes sufficiently advanced that it creates ever greater intelligence. Once that happens there are a variety of outcomes, from utopia to annihilation to destroying the entire solar system to build a giant Matrioshka Brain.

Oh, I thought it had something to do with teleportation or a "Hyperdrive", which would allow us to colonize the solar system.



A what?

(I apologize for my ignorance)

A Matrioshka Brain is a massive stellar engine, you take all the matter in a solar system and use it to build a series of concentric shells around a star. Each shell is made up of an immense number of nano-computers. Each shell extending outward utilizes energy radiated from the interior. In theory it could use all of the energy generated by a star to power it's computers. It would provide massive computational power.

It derives it's name from Matroishka Dolls (where smaller ceramic dolls are nested inside larger ones).

Dude...ANTI PERSONAL HEAT RAY? This sounds pretty cool, even though it'll probably be used to torture people and blast peaceful demonstraters.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/01/24/ray.gun.ap/index.html


I was hoping for the Teleporter/hurley combination...

A Matrioshka Brain is a massive stellar engine, you take all the matter in a solar system and use it to build a series of concentric shells around a star. Each shell is made up of an immense number of nano-computers. Each shell extending outward utilizes energy radiated from the interior. In theory it could use all of the energy generated by a star to power it's computers. It would provide massive computational power.

What would be the use for a Matrioshka Brain? I.E. What would it compute?

I'm going to guess it has something to do with computer sentience.

Isn't that essentially a dyson sphere? Why am I wrong about metal heating up with microwave energy?

I really don't care what super high-tech. toys the military gets.

Where are our Jetpacks? Our flying cars? Our robotic slaves which will one day rise up and murder us in our beds?

http://irbt.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/p3092930t130.jpg

The Robots are coming.

I actually have the cheapo version of this--my girlfriend's idea--and it's pretty cool. Our floors have never been cleaner, and I've almost gotten over the shock of hearing it say "Kill All Humans" when I opened the box.

It's based on a Dyson sphere yes, but much more complex.

Microwaves don't heat metal, metal reflects microwaves. Microwaves heat things by rapidly altering the polarity of water molecules, the rapid vibration of their atoms generates heat.

Putting something in the microwave that has no water in it won't heat it much, because it has very little moisture to heat. Putting a glass of water in a microwave though will get hot very fast.

That's why microwaves don't brown food, it's basically just steaming the moisture out of them.

Ouch...I don't want the police steaming my moisture!

It's based on a Dyson sphere yes, but much more complex.

Microwaves don't heat metal, metal reflects microwaves. Microwaves heat things by rapidly altering the polarity of water molecules, the rapid vibration of their atoms generates heat.

Putting something in the microwave that has no water in it won't heat it much, because it has very little moisture to heat. Putting a glass of water in a microwave though will get hot very fast.

That's why microwaves don't brown food, it's basically just steaming the moisture out of them.

That's pretty much what I was thinking. My sci-fi dreams are flying cars and arms that stick out of my sink and do the dishes and accidentally wash the cat and what not...

It's because we're of the Jetsons generation. ;)

What would be the use for a Matrioshka Brain? I.E. What would it compute?

I'm going to guess it has something to do with computer sentience.

Anything it wants to, imagine uploading the minds of every human being in existence to it. Or hell it'd probably be sentient in it's own right, perhaps housing hundreds or billions of sentient entities.

I totally want one of those.

I think we got the base version for about $120 or so. They're coming down and getting better, as all technology seems to do.

Anything it wants to, imagine uploading the minds of every human being in existence to it. Or hell it'd probably be sentient in it's own right, perhaps housing hundreds or billions of sentient entities.

That's what it's for. These brains could also be linked, turning an entire star cluster or galaxy in to a massive computer...the potential power of these kinds of machines is something that we literally cannot comprehend.

The sum of all human knowledge, continuously improving and growing within a machine of unlimited potential...it's staggering.

Your dream is to be microwaved by the police at a distance?

That's pretty much what I was thinking. My sci-fi dreams are flying cars and arms that stick out of my sink and do the dishes and accidentally wash the cat and what not...

Ouch...I don't want the police steaming my moisture!

The beam in question uses very small microwaves, which don't penetrate much water, in fact according to the article it doesn't even nuke you past your skin. I'm sure it's very unpleasant, and probably not good for your eyes though.

As I recall eyes are pretty bad at radiating excess heat.

http://irbt.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/p3092930t130.jpg

The Robots are coming.

I actually have the cheapo version of this--my girlfriend's idea--and it's pretty cool. Our floors have never been cleaner, and I've almost gotten over the shock of hearing it say "Kill All Humans" when I opened the box.
I totally want one of those.

The beam in question uses very small microwaves, which don't penetrate much water, in fact according to the article it doesn't even nuke you past your skin. I'm sure it's very unpleasant, and probably not good for your eyes though.

As I recall eyes are pretty bad at radiating excess heat.

I wonder if it can be used in rain. Or if rain would perhaps make it do something much, much worse to the target.

Well barring some advance breaking the speed of light limitation the signal lag on even a single brain would be horrible. It'd take several minutes for a signal to travel across the brain.

Yes, there are some significant barriers in terms of the of physics, let alone actually designing and constructing such a structure. I mean, we would have to first be capable of structures like the Dyson sphere before we could even begin work on something like one of the Brains.

There are signs that the speed of light is not a hard barrier and has changed over time; it may be possible to alter it on a scale necessary for these kinds of computers, although exactly how that would be done is a mystery.

Though you're correct the kind of intelligence such a device could render is far beyond anything we can conceive, which is why humans won't design it.

If we do make one, it's going to be based upon something we found or it will be designed by humans with vastly expanded mental abilities. It won't be done by humans as we exist now, that's for sure.

That's what it's for. These brains could also be linked, turning an entire star cluster or galaxy in to a massive computer...the potential power of these kinds of machines is something that we literally cannot comprehend.

The sum of all human knowledge, continuously improving and growing within a machine of unlimited potential...it's staggering.

Well barring some advance breaking the speed of light limitation the signal lag on even a single brain would be horrible. It'd take several minutes for a signal to travel across the brain.

Though you're correct the kind of intelligence such a device could render is far beyond anything we can conceive, which is why humans won't design it.

Ok in answer to whether metal gets hot, the metal itself doesn't, but the reflection of energy which is usually shown as lightning arcs, in itself is very hot. Try putting metal in a microwave and you will see what I mean. Leave this metal object in the microwave for a long time on high power and you will find it can burn a whole through the metal casing. Imagine this weapon turned up a little too high and some loose change in your pocket and you can imagine what happens.

Anything it wants to, imagine uploading the minds of every human being in existence to it. Or hell it'd probably be sentient in it's own right, perhaps housing hundreds or billions of sentient entities.

That's what it's for. These brains could also be linked, turning an entire star cluster or galaxy in to a massive computer...the potential power of these kinds of machines is something that we literally cannot comprehend.

The sum of all human knowledge, continuously improving and growing within a machine of unlimited potential...it's staggering.

Oh man, and I used to be excited about railguns and anti-matter engines.

That's what it's for. These brains could also be linked, turning an entire star cluster or galaxy in to a massive computer...the potential power of these kinds of machines is something that we literally cannot comprehend.

The sum of all human knowledge, continuously improving and growing within a machine of unlimited potential...it's staggering.Appalling is the word I'd use.

Rain would reduce the range on this to practically nothing. On the other hand, riots don't usually happen in the rain either, and this was designed as an anti-riot weapon.

One of the advantages of using the wavelengths they are is that it has pretty much no effect on the eyes. The heat simply isn't sufficient to cause real physical damage, it just feels like it does.

It's pretty crap if it can't be used in rain. Also, if this becomes commonplace, then I bet troublemakers will pay much better attention to the weather report.

Appalling is the word I'd use.

Why? All we are is a method for our brains to move around and seek improvement now. I fail to see why we should be tied to these sorry sacks of water.

Ok in answer to whether metal gets hot, the metal itself doesn't, but the reflection of energy which is usually shown as lightning arcs, in itself is very hot. Try putting metal in a microwave and you will see what I mean. Leave this metal object in the microwave for a long time on high power and you will find it can burn a whole through the metal casing. Imagine this weapon turned up a little too high and some loose change in your pocket and you can imagine what happens.

That would take a tremendous amount of power, even a household microwave can't output that kind of energy. Want proof, microwave a CD, neat light show, but it doesn't even melt the metal out of the plastic.

These things will likely be mounted to Hummers, which don't have the kind of power generating capacity to run it much hotter than they claim I'm sure. Unless they want to slap a couple of generators in the back.

Tellin' yan. Here's my sci-fi dreams of the future... (http://www.9thx.com/auction/AuctionDetail.do?auctionID=dee74be3d04027835b1cdbd7a0d0008c2)

I so remember that cartoon.

Edit: And I so fucking hate this time warp shit.

I wonder if it can be used in rain. Or if rain would perhaps make it do something much, much worse to the target.

Rain would reduce the range on this to practically nothing. On the other hand, riots don't usually happen in the rain either, and this was designed as an anti-riot weapon.

One of the advantages of using the wavelengths they are is that it has pretty much no effect on the eyes. The heat simply isn't sufficient to cause real physical damage, it just feels like it does.

Bloody timewarp is starting to piss me off!

Hmm maybe you right, I've seen metal burn through the inside of my microwave. So I'm not about to go rioting with some loose change in my pocket to find out if there is enough energy in the beam to seriously burn me in the leg lol

It's because we're of the Jetsons generation. ;)

Tellin' yan. Here's my sci-fi dreams of the future... (http://www.9thx.com/auction/AuctionDetail.do?auctionID=dee74be3d04027835b1cdbd7a0d0008c2)

I don't know much about tattoos, but I've heard some people with tattoos can't get MRI's at the hospital because the tattoo ink has metal in it. And then there's always stuff like earrings, wedding rings...etc.

Why? All we are is a method for our brains to move around and seek improvement now. I fail to see why we should be tied to these sorry sacks of water.You can't separate the human brain from the human body and have the result still be a human.

Oh dear, Its suburban America gone mad :D
How much lazier can we get??

I don't know much about tattoos, but I've heard some people with tattoos can't get MRI's at the hospital because the tattoo ink has metal in it. And then there's always stuff like earrings, wedding rings...etc.

I remember there was a Mythbusters episode on the tattoo part--I think they busted it.

I remember there was a Mythbusters episode on the tattoo part--I think they busted it.

IIRC, there were some proven reports of irritation from iron-based black ink tatoos, nothing to really worry about though.

IIRC, there were some proven reports of irritation from iron-based black ink tatoos, nothing to really worry about though.
From this weapon? Or from an MRI?

From this weapon? Or from an MRI?

MRI.

MRI.

MRIs operate on a different principle. They work with intense magnetic fields, not microwaves. 60,000 times the strength of the Earth's magnetic field. Non-magnetic metal, such as gold, wouldn't be an issue.

You can't separate the human brain from the human body and have the result still be a human.

No, not really. (http://scifipedia.scifi.com/images/thumb/0/00/Rise_of_the_cybermen.jpg/350px-Rise_of_the_cybermen.jpg)

:D

MRIs operate on a different principle. They work with intense magnetic fields, not microwaves. 60,000 times the strength of the Earth's magnetic field. Non-magnetic metal, such as gold, wouldn't be an issue.

Yes, but that would indicate that there is metal in the ink, and that it would react to the microwave thingy.

MRIs operate on a different principle. They work with intense magnetic fields, not microwaves. 60,000 times the strength of the Earth's magnetic field. Non-magnetic metal, such as gold, wouldn't be an issue.

The ink was Iron-based, and was therefore ferromagnetic.

You can't separate the human brain from the human body and have the result still be a human.

Of course not, the brain decays entirely too easily.

Besides, if I get uploaded into a computer I won't care what people think of me. If they piss me off I'll ruin their credit ratings!

Of course not, the brain decays entirely too easily.

Besides, if I get uploaded into a computer I won't care what people think of me. If they piss me off I'll ruin their credit ratings!Well, yeah, there's the decaying matter.

With that said, why should you care what people think of you now?

Well, yeah, there's the decaying matter.

With that said, why should you care what people think of you now?

Because humans are annoyingly pack oriented animals, and intellect can't override instinct in all matters.

Because humans are annoyingly pack oriented animals, and intellect can't override instinct in all matters.That's true. I wonder if those people who are into the galaxy-wide computer consider this.

But anyway, try not to worry too much about what other people think, stud.

Welcome to Tech Level 8.

In the GURPS ruleset, Tech Level 7 was defined as modern day, while Tech Level 8 featured such futuristic technologies as Cloning and Energy Weapons.

Welcome to Tech Level 8.

That's true. I wonder if those people who are into the galaxy-wide computer consider this.

But anyway, try not to worry too much about what other people think, stud.

Well I'd do well not to piss people off too much, they might ruin my credit rating!

Well I'd do well not to piss people off too much, they might ruin my credit rating!Lol. But couldn't you fix it if you were also part of the computer?