NationStates Jolt Archive

All things considered, Who makes the best cars?

Iran. Get a load of these. http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&rls=com.microsoft:en-US&q=Paykan&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi

Fancy.

Though I'd have to say Japan ... Toyota hasn't done me wrong ... much ...

America, by far. Japanese cars are horrible.

I have to admit to liking SAABs and Volvos. Well, the higher end models, anyway...

Iran. Get a load of these. http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&rls=com.microsoft:en-US&q=Paykan&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi

As much as I love Honda, I've never driven a civic that I liked as much as my little Volkswagen.

All things considered, Who makes the best cars?


Japan, quality and good value, great resale...

Germans and Swedes make good cars but far too expensive.. and they're hard to resell after the warranty expires because of high costs for parts...

USA could be good because a number of quality Japanese cars are made in the USA, the domestic producers generally are shit...

Technically superior: Germany
Reliability wise: Japan
Design, flair and passion: Italy
'Road racers': UK

France isn't half bad at cars either.

Technically superior: Germany
Reliability wise: Japan
Design, flair and passion: Italy
'Road racers': UK

France isn't half bad at cars either.

Yup. That's a very accurate summary.

Anyone deluded enough to claim American cars are superior never mind good can suck the hairy hoof of stupidity.

http://www.motorpasion.com/archivos/images/porsche-997-GT3-front.jpg

http://www.edmunds.com/media/roadtests/roadtest/06.lamborghini.gallardo.se/06.lamborghini.gallardo.se.f34.4.500.jpg

I say it's a toss-up. In my opinion the best cars are from Italy and Germany.

Iran. Get a load of these. http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&rls=com.microsoft:en-US&q=Paykan&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi

I agree with DCD. Iranian cars are teh bawm. But I had to vote "India" because you left it off the poll. But "India" does have three out of four of the letters in "Iran." Oh, wait ... :eek:

I love American cars! I think they are a great value. Cheap, big engines, lots of space, big cupholders(unlike german cars), fun to drive, safe. I haven't been in many cars as comfortable as my old mercury mystique. I only wish other countries could be as passionate about air conditioning as we are.

American obviously, all the Japanese cars are made in America and Canada.

I love American cars! I think they are a great value. Cheap, big engines, lots of space, big cupholders(unlike german cars), fun to drive, safe. I haven't been in many cars as comfortable as my old mercury mystique. I only wish other countries could be as passionate about air conditioning as we are.

Stop making them square, ugly and plastic inside and maybe we'll talk. Also, make owning a pick up truck a crime.

American obviously, all the Japanese cars are made in America and Canada.

true but the technology and building process is all Japanese, if it were american why do so many shit products come out of the domestic Canadian and US plants

Also, make owning a pick up truck a crime.

I live in middle Georgia, and as a person who likes to camp and cook-out, I must say that pick ups are very usful to the right person.

Hang on... Isn't the entire British car industry that company who make the two-seater racing cars in their garage?

...big cupholders(unlike german cars)...
Haha, that's like a parody of the American driver. :p

Seriously though, I drive a German car, and it's got plenty big enough cup holders. Unless you want to use a giant Bavarian beer mug, of course.

I only wish other countries could be as passionate about air conditioning as we are.
Do you have anything to back that up?

Hang on... Isn't the entire British car industry that company who make the two-seater racing cars in their garage?
So, you've never heard of Jaguar, Aston Martin, TVR, Bristol, Ascari, Lotus and probably a few more I've forgotten right now?

Just because some of them are foreign-owned doesn't mean that they're not still British brands building British cars.

I find nothing wrong with my mustang, but Japanese cars are my favorite.

Hang on... Isn't the entire British car industry that company who make the two-seater racing cars in their garage?

I included Britain because they make/ have made some famous cars. Rolls Royce, Rover, Mini, Lotus, Landrover, MG and some others.

and aston martin and whatnot, but isn't Jaguar owned by Ford?

and TVR is now owned by a billionare Russian

Hang on... Isn't the entire British car industry that company who make the two-seater racing cars in their garage?

Nope.

Caterham
Ariel
Westfield
Aston Martin
Bristol
Jaguar
Rolls-Royce
Bentley
Lotus
Radical
McLaren
Marcos
Lister
AC
Ascari
Noble
Land Rover
Mini
TVR (barely British)

That's just off the top of my head. A few are foreign-owned (the larger ones), but they're still British car manufacturers.

That list includes the absolute best in the world in several categories: off-road, GT, luxury-sports, lightweight-sports, road-legal racing, luxury saloon....

[QUOTE=Neu Leonstein;12249240]Seriously though, I drive a German car, and it's got plenty big enough cup holders. Unless you want to use a giant Bavarian beer mug, of course.
QUOTE]

Seriously, I drive a german car, and both my VW and my dad's audi have small flimsy cupholders. Never had that problem with American cars, or Japanes for that matter.

[QUOTE=Neu Leonstein;12249240]Seriously though, I drive a German car, and it's got plenty big enough cup holders. Unless you want to use a giant Bavarian beer mug, of course.
QUOTE]

Seriously, I drive a german car, and both my VW and my dad's audi have small flimsy cupholders. Never had that problem with American cars, or Japanes for that matter.

You generally don't get that problem with American cars, because one of two things has happened by the time you need a cupholder:
a) You've approached a corner and the car has fulfilled the time-honoured American car tradition of crashing
b) It's broken down and you're standing by the side of the road waiting for a pickup truck.

All joking aside, German cars have, generally (in Europe, anyway) a quality of fit and finish unrivalled by any other car.

Seriously, I drive a german car, and both my VW and my dad's audi have small flimsy cupholders. Never had that problem with American cars, or Japanes for that matter.
Actually, this is a good chance for me to find out...what do you Americans like so much about cup holders? :confused:

Actually, this is a good chance for me to find out...what do you Americans like so much about cup holders? :confused:

Well, here in America we have a time honored tradition of super-sizing drinks. This also includes the 24 oz slurpies I like to pick up after work on mondays. Here, drinks are probably the most common thing that we would transport(even more common than passengers) and use while driving. The importance of a wide cup holder with tall walls to prevent spilling during turns cannot be ignored.

Actually, this is a good chance for me to find out...what do you Americans like so much about cup holders? :confused:

They hold our cups.

There is a joke that Home Improvement guy tells about trying to joke with the Mercedes mechanic about the lack of cup holders in his Gullwing and the mechanic snaps back, "Perhapz ve find driving more impotant zen drinking your zoda." or something like that.

Seriously though, if you're coming back with some drive through or something, they're a nice thing to have. They don't top a list or anything, but they can come in handy.

EDIT: Oh, and there isn't a German manufacturer that I dislike. At best am mildly indifferent to (BMW...for some reason I can't fire up the spark for those cars, though I do respect them and actually would want for some reason a first generation M3)

Yeah Germany is killing this poll. Even though they are a little on the expensive side.

Just because some of them are foreign-owned doesn't mean that they're not still British brands building British cars.

That's just off the top of my head. A few are foreign-owned (the larger ones), but they're still British car manufacturers.

Hehehe, we're so defensive about our motor industry. And actually, I haven't heard of several of those, especially from Nadkor's list.

But that was my (somewhat facetious, but this is me) point; there are few large British-owned manufacturers. All sorts of cars are built all over, but building a Ford Focus in Dagenham doesn't mean it's a British car. IMO, anyway ;)
And yes, we have some very impressive smaller manufacturers. But they're pretty niche.

Hehe, even my "new" 1995 Rover 218 is German :D

EDIT: Oh, and there isn't a German manufacturer that I dislike. At best am mildly indifferent to (BMW...for some reason I can't fire up the spark for those cars, though I do respect them and actually would want for some reason a first generation M3)

With BMW you have to respect them for the sheer technical prowess....there's not a single part on a BMW that isn't pretty much as best as it could be at the job it needs to do. As for the shape and look of the cars, that's a different matter....

Haha, that's like a parody of the American driver. :p

Seriously though, I drive a German car, and it's got plenty big enough cup holders. Unless you want to use a giant Bavarian beer mug, of course.


Do you have anything to back that up?

Will it hold a 44 ounce super big-gulp filled with vodka and 7-up? That's a must for long drives.

I live in middle Georgia, and as a person who likes to camp and cook-out, I must say that pick ups are very usful to the right person.

handy in construction too:) Americans ain't half bad at making trucks. germans do make fine cars though.

With BMW you have to respect them for the sheer technical prowess....there's not a single part on a BMW that isn't pretty much as best as it could be at the job it needs to do. As for the shape and look of the cars, that's a different matter....
Every time an M3 beats one of the 911 GT3s I'm always shaking my fist but then going, "Yeah...well, alright..." Fortunately that hasn't been happening as of late.

This year at Le Mans I will be conflicted-Porsche is aiming for an overall win with their LMP2 car, so my Porsche says, "GO!" But also there is the diesel powered Audi and Peugeot, so that's what my hippy side is rooting for. All and all it will likely just be a good freakin' race-for the overall win for a change. The last few years it's been the Europeans gunning for the Corvette that have provided all the excitement. Who thought the Corvette's strength would be reliability?

All sorts of cars are built all over, but building a Ford Focus in Dagenham doesn't mean it's a British car. :D

Its true, contracts to build cars are sent everywhere these days. My mom's Mazda 626 is essentially a Ford Probe. They were built in the same factory side-by-side here in Georgia. We even go to a Ford dealorship to get parts for it.

I admit Japanese cars are very good, but I like American cars better. It helps that America invented the car.

I admit Japanese cars are very good, but I like American cars better. It helps that America invented the car.

I admit Japanese cars are very good, but I like American cars better. It helps that America invented the car.

Please.

Please.

Please.

Please.

Please tell me you're taking the piss.

. All sorts of cars are built all over, but building a Ford Focus in Dagenham doesn't mean it's a British car. IMO, anyway ;)
Well, except that the Ford Focus that they build in Europe (at least some of them) isn't the same Ford Focus that we get...


...and that burns my hide...why can't we get the hot rod one? sniffle.

I admit Japanese cars are very good, but I like American cars better. It helps that America invented the car.

Yeah I'm a big fan of American cars but it all comes down to one thing, reliability. Reliability means your car breaks down less, it means you spend less money on it, and most of all it means you can sell it for more money when your done with it.

On another note, what does everybody actually drive? Just curious.

britain makes my favourite cars.

It helps that America invented the car.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHA! that was brilliant!

Please.

Please.

Please.

Please.

Please tell me you're taking the piss.

I'll add a few more pleases to that...partly because I like that phrase...

but yes...please?

On another note, what does everybody actually drive? Just curious.
Right now? '99 VW Golf 1.6 Manual.

But I'm on the hunt for another car, most likely a first generation Mazda MX-5.

Nope.

Caterham
Ariel
Westfield
Aston Martin
Bristol
Jaguar
Rolls-Royce
Bentley
Lotus
Radical
McLaren
Marcos
Lister
AC
Ascari
Noble
Land Rover
Mini
TVR (barely British)

That's just off the top of my head. A few are foreign-owned (the larger ones), but they're still British car manufacturers.

That list includes the absolute best in the world in several categories: off-road, GT, luxury-sports, lightweight-sports, road-legal racing, luxury saloon....

How many of those are still British? Jaguar, Land Rover, Mini, Bentley, and Rolls Royce aren't.

Every time an M3 beats one of the 911 GT3s I'm always shaking my fist but then going, "Yeah...well, alright..." Fortunately that hasn't been happening as of late.

This year at Le Mans I will be conflicted-Porsche is aiming for an overall win with their LMP2 car, so my Porsche says, "GO!" But also there is the diesel powered Audi and Peugeot, so that's what my hippy side is rooting for. All and all it will likely just be a good freakin' race-for the overall win for a change. The last few years it's been the Europeans gunning for the Corvette that have provided all the excitement. Who thought the Corvette's strength would be reliability?

Who would have thought the Corvette would have been any good with corners going more than one direction? :P

How many of those are still British?
Is Chrysler still American?

Right now? '99 VW Golf 1.6 Manual.

But I'm on the hunt for another car, most likely a first generation Mazda MX-5.

Hell yeah! I drive a 2001 golf 1.8t automatic.

Is Chrysler still American?
No.

How many of those are still British?

All of them.

Jaguar, Land Rover, Mini, Bentley, and Rolls-Royce are foreign owned, though. And TVR.

Jaguar, Land Rover, Mini, Bentley, and Rolls Royce aren't.

Sure they are. Just because they're foreign owned doesn't mean they're not British; the cars are designed here, they're made here, the companies are incorporated here, they're headquarted here, they're history and heritage is all here....how much more British do you want?

Is Chrysler still American?

Daimler Chrysler is kind of a weird company. Half American-half German? They own mercedes and jeep. I'm still waiting for a Grand Cherokee AMG though.

All of them.

Jaguar, Land Rover, Mini, Bentley, and Rolls-Royce are foreign owned, though. And TVR.



Sure they are. Just because they're foreign owned doesn't mean they're not British; the cars are designed here, they're made here, the companies are incorporated here, they're headquarted here, they're history and heritage is all here....how much more British do you want?
Ownership.

Look, I really like Swedish cars. I think Swedes make great cars. But Saabs have been crap since GM bought the company. They are American cars built on American platforms, manufactured in America - and with typical GM quality control.

No.
German Car! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_Viper)

Daimler Chrysler is kind of a weird company. Half American-half German? They own mercedes and jeep. I'm still waiting for a Grand Cherokee AMG though.
But they're not really half-American. It was a clear takeover by Daimler that was pitched as a merger so as not to annoy American consumers. It's a German company. They make German cars.

Yes, the Dodge Ram is a German pickup.

Ownership.

Look, I really like Swedish cars. I think Swedes make great cars. But Saabs have been crap since GM bought the company. They are American cars built on American platforms, manufactured in America - and with typical GM quality control.

Volvo is owned by Ford, but ever since Ford bought them, they've been getting better reviews. Well Road and Track likes them.

But they're not really half-American. It was a clear takeover by Daimler that was pitched as a merger so as not to annoy American consumers. It's a German company. They make German cars.

Yes, the Dodge Ram is a German pickup.

Its true, I geuss that means the Dodge neon is also a german car.

Yes, the Dodge Ram is a German pickup.
Stand up from your chair. Walk around for two minutes. Have a glass of water.

Then come back and read that sentence again.

Ownership.

So what...Jaguar is an American car company? Bentley is? Rolls-Royce is as American as Chevrolet?

I think you've lost it.

Look, I really like Swedish cars. I think Swedes make great cars. But Saabs have been crap since GM bought the company. They are American cars built on American platforms, manufactured in America - and with typical GM quality control.

Fantastic for them, but the only 'British' car company who suffers from that fate is Vauxhall, and you'll note that I didn't include them in my list, as they aren't British.

Who would have thought the Corvette would have been any good with corners going more than one direction? :P

They surprised us all (not least of which, ProDrive who is on their second car trying to chase down the yellow monsters) Of course, Corvette has actually a long storied past in sports cars, so we should have known. But bah...

The scarier thing is that a Cadillac is dominating the SPEED GT class against Porsches, Vipers, Corvettes and Mustangs. And it sounds like a beast. It's just...it's just wrong...

I think Saab has really been assimilated by GM. Not just because GM owns Saab but because Saabs have pretty much become GMs in design and identity. Does that mean that Dodge has been assimilated by Daimler/Chrysler? Well mercedes does get a cut of every Jeep sold? I don't know.

The scarier thing is that a Cadillac is dominating the SPEED GT class against Porsches, Vipers, Corvettes and Mustangs. And it sounds like a beast. It's just...it's just wrong...

A Cadillac CTS has the same Chevy LT1 engine block as a corvete. Its really pretty silly.

A Cadillac CTS has the same Chevy LT1 engine block as a corvete. Its really pretty silly.

But when you hear 'em go by, there is a world of difference. And the level of dominance, it's really too much. They're the fastest cars out there by a long shot.

But when you hear 'em go by, there is a world of difference. And the level of dominance, it's really too much. They're the fastest cars out there by a long shot.

I know what you mean, The Porches eat up the corners but those Cadillacs own the straights. Its just weird because if you went and bought all of those cars at a dealorship, the cadillac would be the slowest by far.

How many of those are still British? Jaguar, Land Rover, Mini, Bentley, and Rolls Royce aren't.

as far as i know these are still all british owned:

Caterham
Ariel
Westfield
Bristol
Lotus
Radical
McLaren
Marcos
Lister
AC
Ascari
Noble

i might be wrong about Noble though, i have a feeling they got bought by a russian entrepreneur. and i'm not sure about McLaren, they seem to do a lot with Mercedes for an independent company.

Japanese cars are the best value, by far, but german cars are marginally better compared to their added cost.

I would only have an American car built in the last 25 years if I couldn't possibly afford anything else.

i might be wrong about Noble though, i have a feeling they got bought by a russian entrepreneur. and i'm not sure about McLaren, they seem to do a lot with Mercedes for an independent company.

Nope, Noble are still fully independent, TVR got bought by a Russian.

McLaren just changed their shareholder ratio to this:
DaimlerChrysler 40%
Bahrain Mumtalakat Holding Company 30%
Ron Dennis 15%
Mansour Ojjeh (head of/owns TAG, hence their branding on McLaren F1 cars) 15%

Make of that what you will...

Nope, Noble are still fully independent, TVR got bought by a Russian.


ah yeh, i think i'm just remembering an article in a magazine about Noble opening a showroom in Moscow or something, i think it was in top gear mag.

McLaren just changed their shareholder ratio to this:
DaimlerChrysler 40%
Bahrain Mumtalakat Holding Company 30%
Ron Dennis 15%
Mansour Ojjeh (head of/owns TAG, hence their branding on McLaren F1 cars) 15%

Make of that what you will...

a truly multinational car maker i guess. althought their base of operations is in a very fancy building in Britain, so i suppose they are a british company.

ah yeh, i think i'm just remembering an article in a magazine about Noble opening a showroom in Moscow or something, i think it was in top gear mag.


a truly multinational car maker i guess. althought their base of operations is in a very fancy building in Britain, so i suppose they are a british company.

Does McLaren have a road car other than the F1?

Does McLaren have a road car other than the F1?

this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_SLR_McLaren) was a joint project with mercedes.

this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_SLR_McLaren) was a joint project with mercedes.

There have been 'McLaren' models of other cars (even a Mustang) but at the end of the day, that's Benz. I'm talking about McLaren badged McLarens, not McLaren Soandsos.

(not to say I'm knocking McLaren contributions to the design of those cars, or to compare what was essentially an aftermarket edition Mustang to the McLaren Mercedes SLR, but still...)

Does McLaren have a road car other than the F1?

Well, if you modify one of the F1 cars....;)



As for the SLR...as far as I know it was designed and engineered by McLaren, and it's build by them.

All Merc did (basically) was come up with the fancy interior and the exterior shape, and put their badge on it. AMG did the engine.

There have been 'McLaren' models of other cars (even a Mustang) but at the end of the day, that's Benz. I'm talking about McLaren badged McLarens, not McLaren Soandsos.

(not to say I'm knocking McLaren contributions to the design of those cars, or to compare what was essentially an aftermarket edition Mustang to the McLaren Mercedes SLR, but still...)

in that case, not that i am aware of. i think they focus their attention of F1.

edit: i just had a look at their website and apparently they made this (http://www.mclarenautomotive.com/cars/m6gt_introduction.htm) too. only 3 in existence though.

The Japanese make the most, best cars. The Germans make a tiny number of unbelievable cars, as do the Italians, but for the common man, a Japanese car rocks the most.

Yeah I'm a big fan of American cars but it all comes down to one thing, reliability. Reliability means your car breaks down less, it means you spend less money on it, and most of all it means you can sell it for more money when your done with it.

On another note, what does everybody actually drive? Just curious.
1995 Buick La Saber Custum
Why? Because it was cheap enough that I could buy it outright, however the fact that it doesn't have a cup holder is a constant source of annoyment, I mean really it has power seats, but no cup holder WTF:confused:

The Japanese make the most, best cars. The Germans make a tiny number of unbelievable cars, as do the Italians, but for the common man, a Japanese car rocks the most.

Maybe in the US, but here in Europe we have Ford, Renault, Citroen, Vauxhall\Opel, Saab, Volvo and VW all making great cars for the "common man" alongside the Japanese ones.

On another note, what does everybody actually drive? Just curious.

I can't believe I missed this question...

Meet Veronica:
http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/5581/mybaby6eq.jpg
My Red and White Volkswagen Microbus with shovels rakes and other implements of de-struction.

It's the internet, someone is going to get that...

and then for work there is what I less effectionatly call The Lego-
http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/5315/thelego6cj.jpg
'85 Vanagon Cargo-style with a makeshift bed in the back.

Yep, two VW vans. And those pictures where taken at where I lived (sigh...) in Santa Cruz*. I also have long hair and a three inch goatee.

Which might be exactly as some might have pictured me...


*I now live on Treasure Island in San Francisco. Arrrr.

Maybe in the US, but here in Europe we have Ford, Renault, Citroen, Vauxhall\Opel, Saab, Volvo and VW all making great cars for the "common man" alongside the Japanese ones.

I'm saying the best quality at the best price.

The GM brands, Ford, VW, Volvo, Saab, Kia, Hyundai and others all make decent enough cars for decent enough prices, but they don't meet the price/quality combination of the Japanese cars.

Maybe in the US, but here in Europe we have Ford, Renault, Citroen, Vauxhall\Opel, Saab, Volvo and VW all making great cars for the "common man" alongside the Japanese ones.

VW tried to move 'up market' in the US over the last few years (which is why they are now calling the Golf the Rabbit again, to inch themselves back down market to their roots), Saab and Volvo are priced out, and the Fords you get are so much cooler than ours.

Citroen, Vauxhall/Opel (though some Opels get rebadged) and Renault don't sell here.

I can't believe I missed this question...

Meet Veronica:
http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/5581/mybaby6eq.jpg
My Red and White Volkswagen Microbus with shovels rakes and other implements of de-struction.

It's the internet, someone is going to get that...

http://www.marilyn.nu/ArticlePages/200507/01/20050701144618_Administrators319/eddie_izzard.jpg

http://www.marilyn.nu/ArticlePages/200507/01/20050701144618_Administrators319/eddie_izzard.jpg

That made me laugh, good enough.

Africa.

The first new car I buy will be German...

...until then, it's whatever used car I can afford. :p

*Laughs at Korea and France's performance on the poll*

japan makes the best railroad cars. mostly to run on its own unique but, i think, quite sensable, gauge of track.

=^^=
.../\...

I drive a Peugeot 306 (and I love it :) ).


I think Germany makes the best cars, followed by Japan. The quality is outstanding, yet it doesn't seem to compromise the driving capabilities. In my opinion, Porsche is the best car manufacturer in the world.

I love Pugs, but the French can't seem to shake those niggling quality issues & they don't seem to have the really high end, bleeding edge technology of Germany & Italy. They do make good handling, enjoyable to drive, everyday cars though.

I don't really rate Italian cars at all highly, they just don't appeal to me. Their history of quality & reliability is awful. It does seem to be improving, but it's not yet near the standard of Japan or Germany. They're too much style over substance.

British manufacturers seem to have lost their way. They're neither as reliable as the Germans or Japanse, don't have the excitement of the Italians, nor do they make their mass market cars fun to drive like the French. I can't think of a British car that I would really consider buying.

To me, Swedish cars are worthy, but boring. I don't think I'd look twice at any of them.

I think America makes the worst cars, closely followed by Korea. On the whole, they're soft, fat & inefficient. Cupholders are rated more highly than grip, handling, cornering ability, etc. :rolleyes: There are certainly some notable exceptions to this, but overall American car manufacturers seem far more interested in making bland, shoddy barges, than quality metal.

(I'm excluding India & China because making copies of other manufacturer's superseded models doesn't really count.)

That made me laugh, good enough.

OH HANG ON, I know where that's from. Eddie Izzard had a line quite like that, but yours was from the completely genius of Alice's Restaurant. I remember quoting parts of that song to Eut once, don't think he liked it.

I'm saying the best quality at the best price.

The GM brands, Ford, VW, Volvo, Saab, Kia, Hyundai and others all make decent enough cars for decent enough prices, but they don't meet the price/quality combination of the Japanese cars.

Sure they do, here anyway. Ford and Renault in particular match up to the Japanese makers very well.

VW tried to move 'up market' in the US over the last few years (which is why they are now calling the Golf the Rabbit again, to inch themselves back down market to their roots), Saab and Volvo are priced out, and the Fords you get are so much cooler than ours.

Citroen, Vauxhall/Opel (though some Opels get rebadged) and Renault don't sell here.

You guys miss out on so much. Vauxhall/Opel make the fantastic Astra (and the Astra VXR/whatever Opel calls their version).

Ford make some great cars, but you know that already. The next Mondeo is going to be a stunner:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9e/2007_Ford_Mondeo_Pre_Launch.jpg

Renault also make quality cars. Citreons are OK, not as good as Renault's, but they're stylish.

I used to be a mechanic and I can tell you that of the 2 countries whose products I have the most experience with, Japan beats USA hands down.

Even Japanese cars assembled in the USA are inferior to the ones assembled in Japan.

Th ereason for this is the mentality of the auto workers as well as designers. Consider:

In Japan, the average auto worker is someone who puts the good of the company first. he will work late, work hard, and takes pride in his work. To him, a well built car is a matter of personal honor and pride, and he feels it reflects on him as much as the company if something is wrong.

On the other hand, American auto workers are unionized and self-centered. They want to know what's in it for THEM as individuals. "What will you give ME in exchange for me building cars for you?" They identify more with their unions than with their employers. The difference in quality is obvious for anyone whose been into a lot of engine compatrments for both.

I have a friend with whom I used to debate these things, and he's a bigtime Chevy guy. (I'm partial to Nissan myself) He admitted that, especially in the 80s and early 90s, American companies weren't building to the same standard as the Japanese. I asked him why then, did he continue to argue for Chevy's superiority. Know what he said? "Because I just like Chevy."

I said fine, but realize that this is why the American companies have such a crap product. It's because they've got a fanbase of millions of loyal buyers who will go to the dealer and plunk down money for whatever turd comes out of those assembly l ines no matter what. There's no incentive. Every person that says "I'd rather push my Chevy than drive a rice-burner" is only contributing to the problem. I buy Japanese because I hope that if enough people do, the American manufacturers will get the idea and start building the best cars in the world. I know they can. Just gotta make them want to badly enough.

The patriot in me says England, in light of our having founded Aston Martin, Rolls Royce, Lotus, Jaguar, Bentley, Mclaren, TVR and numerous other elite brands of cars.

JAPAN!!!:D Then GERMANY-these two countries should join in making the ultimate car. America is alright, but man, I've probably heard the same line of sentence in so many different countries and different languages when it comes to an American made car, "This shit keeps breaking, what's the deal?" :D or "This thing is a oil guzzler, my god":D

Sure they do, here anyway. Ford and Renault in particular match up to the Japanese makers very well.
Ford suffers because GM drags down the reputation of American car makers.

20 years ago I'd have said Germans made the best cars.

12 years I'd have said Swedes.

Today, Japan.

On the other hand, American auto workers are unionized and self-centered. They want to know what's in it for THEM as individuals. "What will you give ME in exchange for me building cars for you?" They identify more with their unions than with their employers. The difference in quality is obvious for anyone whose been into a lot of engine compatrments for both.


Not that I entirely disagree with you argument, but I'd like to point out that most Japanese cars manufactured in the US are manufactured by non-Union workers. Something that (pleasantly enough) irks the UAW to no end.

Ford suffers because GM drags down the reputation of American car makers.

Nah, Ford has different product lines in Europe from those in the US. And they're superior to what the US gets. Ford isn't generally seen as an American manufacturer here, so doesn't get brought down by that reputation. I suppose because they've been here forever, and have separate products here.

GM European brands (Saab, Opel/Vauxhall) are both well respected.

The only other marques GM operates here are American; Cadillac and Chevrolet. Both are generally poorly regarded.

Nah, Ford has different product lines in Europe from those in the US. And they're superior to what the US gets. Ford isn't generally seen as an American manufacturer here, so doesn't get brought down by that reputation. I suppose because they've been here forever, and have separate products here.

GM European brands (Saab, Opel/Vauxhall) are both well respected.

The only other marques GM operates here are American; Cadillac and Chevrolet. Both are generally poorly regarded.

Mainly because the "European Market" has an entire country filled with car fanatics smack-dab in the middle of it. Hell, when traveling to Germany, Americans are advised to be especially respectful of German's cars, as they are like their children, only more loved and better tended to.

And Chevrolet is poorly regarded here as well. The only way they even sell any more is by making blatant nationalist appeals. Kind of along the lines of "If GM fails, America is screwed! Buy our cars or else the Japs will bomb Pearl Harbor again!!!!!!!!"

OH HANG ON, I know where that's from. Eddie Izzard had a line quite like that, but yours was from the completely genius of Alice's Restaurant. I remember quoting parts of that song to Eut once, don't think he liked it.
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You guys miss out on so much. Vauxhall/Opel make the fantastic Astra (and the Astra VXR/whatever Opel calls their version).

Ford make some great cars, but you know that already. The next Mondeo is going to be a stunner:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9e/2007_Ford_Mondeo_Pre_Launch.jpg

Renault also make quality cars. Citreons are OK, not as good as Renault's, but they're stylish.
Tell me about it...:(
If we got the Clio Sport V6 alone I'd be happier...

I think we get the Mondeo, they just call it something else and we don't get the cool hot rod version. I don't know what we call it, though.

Not that I entirely disagree with you argument, but I'd like to point out that most Japanese cars manufactured in the US are manufactured by non-Union workers. Something that (pleasantly enough) irks the UAW to no end.

Really? I didn't know that.

Although I do think that it's the mentality of workers in this country in general that tends to be more about the self than the company, which shows in the product.

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Wooo! Awesome song. I remember my dad playing it to me for the first time in the car when we were going somewhere years ago. I love how it just....rambles on.

Tell me about it...:(
If we got the Clio Sport V6 alone I'd be happier...

Oooohhh, now that is a car...mid engined, rear wheel drive small hatchback with 250bhp....and it doesn't look half bad either :)

I think we get the Mondeo, they just call it something else and we don't get the cool hot rod version. I don't know what we call it, though.

The Ford Contour, I think.

Although as far as I know it's like the Focus; similar but very different.

And I think it was dropped at the turn of the century in the US as well.

Wooo! Awesome song. I remember my dad playing it to me for the first time in the car when we were going somewhere years ago. I love how it just....rambles on.
At the record store we'd play it every Thanksgiving back to back.



Oooohhh, now that is a car...mid engined, rear wheel drive small hatchback with 250bhp....and it doesn't look half bad either :)
It's one of my favorite Gran Turismo cars. There are a few roads out here that I'd like to carve up with one of those. Or a Cayman. Or an Elise. Or...



The Ford Contour, I think.

Although as far as I know it's like the Focus; similar but very different.

And I think it was dropped at the turn of the century in the US as well.
I was literally coming back here to say I remembered it was the Contour. Now that slot is filled with the Ford Fusion. Despire advertising the fuck out of that car it has failed to make any impression on me whatsoever. Seriously, I have no idea about that car. Just...plain I guess. I know that young female executives apparently drive it. That's about all I've taken from the ads...

You guys miss out on so much. Vauxhall/Opel make the fantastic Astra (and the Astra VXR/whatever Opel calls their version).
:eek: ROFL. Never in my wildest dreams would I have imagined to find my boring, unstylish, unhip, un-everything car in this thread, as "fantastic" nonetheless. :p

Definatly America.

Sorry, can't touch the '77 Trans Am.

All things considered, Who makes the best cars?

Depends. For general use, I'd go for either a Volvo or a Mitsubishi. For road racing? Well, my best car in NFS: MW is a Renault Clio, so I'm guessing that's French, judging by how it's pronounced.

America bitches!

Seriously though I haven't actually owned an American car. Just Japanese and German made vehicles. In my experience they're both very reliable.

I love that India is on the poll. Granted, the Hindustan Ambassador is one of the world's better selling cars...

Sorry, can't touch the '77 Trans Am.
But it's so ugly!

I mean, there are some good-looking American cars out there. But that one is definitely not one of them.

Tell me about it...:(
If we got the Clio Sport V6 alone I'd be happier...

It's one of my favorite Gran Turismo cars. There are a few roads out here that I'd like to carve up with one of those. Or a Cayman. Or an Elise. Or...

I never liked it. I always wanted to, I really did, because it was such a cool package. A mid mounted V6, in a supermini. I always found it twitchy & nasty to drive, and it would switch ends on me faster than I could blurt out an expletive.

:eek: ROFL. Never in my wildest dreams would I have imagined to find my boring, unstylish, unhip, un-everything car in this thread, as "fantastic" nonetheless. :p

As long as it's the current Astra, then it really is a great car. The one before? Not so much ;)

At the record store we'd play it every Thanksgiving back to back.
:)
It's one of my favorite Gran Turismo cars. There are a few roads out here that I'd like to carve up with one of those. Or a Cayman. Or an Elise. Or...

Well, a Caterham 7 beats them all ;)
I was literally coming back here to say I remembered it was the Contour. Now that slot is filled with the Ford Fusion. Despire advertising the fuck out of that car it has failed to make any impression on me whatsoever. Seriously, I have no idea about that car. Just...plain I guess. I know that young female executives apparently drive it. That's about all I've taken from the ads...

In Europe we have a different fusion. Equally shit I imagine:
http://www.autoviaggiando.com/archivio/2005/10/31-ford-fiesta-e-fusion/ford%20fusion%20-%2001.jpg

But I looked up the N. American version. Hopefully i'll never be an executive :p

I never liked it. I always wanted to, I really did, because it was such a cool package. A mid mounted V6, in a supermini. I always found it twitchy & nasty to drive, and it would switch ends on me faster than I could blurt out an expletive.

Yeah, but so would an old 911, and you wouldn't say no to that, would you :p

Yeah, but so would an old 911, and you wouldn't say no to that, would you :p

No, I would not. :)

As long as it's the current Astra, then it really is a great car. The one before? Not so much ;)
You had to go and spoil everything, didn't you? :rolleyes: :p

You had to go and spoil everything, didn't you? :rolleyes: :p

Oh well, at least you could dream for a while. :p

I admit Japanese cars are very good, but I like American cars better. It helps that America invented the car.
Actually the question of who invented the car is tricky. Leonardo da Vinci was creating designs and models for transport vehicles in the 15th century. There have been many different kinds of automobiles like steam, electric and gasoline but most people give credit to Karl Benz (http://www.loc.gov/rr/scitech/mysteries/auto.html) of Germany for inventing the automobile.

Not all German cars are as expensive as some may think. When I was shopping for a new SUV, all the American made SUVs were actually on average $6,250 more expensive than their BMW, Mercedes-Benz and Audi counterparts when equipped similarly. In fact, I was quite surprised to find that the Porsche Cayenne was $10,000 less than a Chevrolet Tahoe. :eek:

Also, make owning a pick up truck a crime.

That's just ignorant.

I voted German due to my love affair with Mercedes...but honestly...Trucks are very practical for a lot of people. Maybe in scotland they have no use, but I couldn't tell you how much easier moving into my apartment was made because my buddy lent me his Dodge Ram. Having a truck doesn't make you a redneck...it makes you a truck owner.

Not all German cars are as expensive as some may think. When I was shopping for a new SUV, all the American made SUVs were actually on average $6,250 more expensive than their BMW, Mercedes-Benz and Audi counterparts when equipped similarly. In fact, I was quite surprised to find that the Porsche Cayenne was $10,000 less than a Chevrolet Tahoe. :eek:

Dude, you just blew my mind!

Though the Cayenne shouldn't be. But what does Porsche care about the opinion of someone who can't afford their product compared to all those people buying that stupid thing.


In other news, the Daytona 24 Hours is on now, just started. anyone watching? I don't have Speed, so I only get 1 hour of coverage. Bah...

Dude, you just blew my mind!Yeah, mine too. :eek: And I don't even know anything about cars.

Though the Cayenne shouldn't be. Shouldn't be what?

Yeah, mine too. :eek: And I don't even know anything about cars.

Shouldn't be what?

Shouldn't be at all. The idea of Porsche making an SUV? Every breed of Porsche has had a foot firmly planted in racing, they make performance cars specificly. It makes as much sense as a Ferrari SUV...I was about to say "or a Lamborghini," but they actually did make one. (http://www.channel4.com/4car/media/100-greatest/03-large/56-lamborghini-lm002.jpg)

It's a purist argument, however, and since the damn thing sells like hotcakes and gives Porsche the room to introduce things like the Cayman, "shouldn't be" is just whining that has no real bearing.

In other news, the Daytona 24 Hours is on now, just started. anyone watching? I don't have Speed, so I only get 1 hour of coverage. Bah...

I have Speed, you can crash on the couch and watch on the big tv if you'd like. If you buy me beer.

I have Speed, you can crash on the couch and watch on the big tv if you'd like. If you buy me beer.

Sweet, I'll bring weed.

I really need to upgrade to digital so I can have Speed by the time the 24 Hours of Le Mans rolls around. That's the big one.

Sweet, I'll bring weed.

I really need to upgrade to digital so I can have Speed by the time the 24 Hours of Le Mans rolls around. That's the big one.

Weed? Even better!

I have Speed, and all I ever watch on it is the auctions. I'm not a good owner. :(

Weed? Even better!

I have Speed, and all I ever watch on it is the auctions. I'm not a good owner. :(
Well, turn to it now-it's got a 24hr sports car race on it. Though it's only going to show 15 hours of it. Its been a pretty good race so far.

Well, turn to it now-it's got a 24hr sports car race on it. Though it's only going to show 15 hours of it. Yeah Ruffy, quick, turn it on now! 15 hours of a 24 hours car race! Imagine the excitement!

Well, turn to it now-it's got a 24hr sports car race on it. Though it's only going to show 15 hours of it. Its been a pretty good race so far.

The remote is too far away. :(

Yeah Ruffy, quick, turn it on now! 15 hours of a 24 hours car race! Imagine the excitement!

:p

Did you check your mailbox yet?

Dude, you just blew my mind!

Though the Cayenne shouldn't be. But what does Porsche care about the opinion of someone who can't afford their product compared to all those people buying that stupid thing.


In other news, the Daytona 24 Hours is on now, just started. anyone watching? I don't have Speed, so I only get 1 hour of coverage. Bah...My mom bought a Cayenne, and after driving it for a good amount of time, I love it. It's a Porsche SUV yes, but it's actually good.

Deutschland does it again! :)

Yeah Ruffy, quick, turn it on now! 15 hours of a 24 hours car race! Imagine the excitement!

I never realised you were such a fan! :p

Yeah Ruffy, quick, turn it on now! 15 hours of a 24 hours car race! Imagine the excitement!

To be fair, even I (being someone who basically adores any form of motor racing) couldn't do that.

I need to be there, to smell the exhaust fumes and to hear the howl as the cars head off down the straight...TVs ruin motor racing, they make it look (relatively) slow, safe, and boring.

To really get what motorsport's about you need to be there.

The perfect example is the North West 200; riders on World Superbikes doing nigh on 200mph on country roads. When you see it in the flesh it's just addictive; so intoxicatingly adrenaline pumping that you can't help but be transfixed.

Yet on TV it just seems so very safe. And every motorsport is the same.

Except for NASCAR, it's just shit all round (in an oval, lol, etc.)