NationStates Jolt Archive

I was sitting here and thinking about how much English sucks, as there is so many things that are quirky within it.

For instance: Plural of Goose= geese , but plural of mongoose= mongooses.

another one: Plural of mouse=mice, BUT plural of house=houses.

Lets not forget that i rode up the windy road, that goes around the windy mountain. Or I wound the medical tape around her wound. No wonder people fail english classes:headbang:


-edit- let it be known that I was not implying that I have ever done poorly in an english class, just venting over frustration with this language :D

Houses.

People fail English classes because people teach English as if it follows consistent rules. But it doesn't. So stop teaching it like it does.

Spelling alone should make that clear.

Not 'houses'?!


See what I mean! :p

Houses.

People fail English classes because people teach English as if it follows consistent rules. But it doesn't. So stop teaching it like it does.

Spelling alone should make that clear.

Mongoose is not an English word. It's a Marathi (a language of India) word borrowed into English.

The plural of "house" is "houses".

I will give you the pronunciation oddities. That's what makes it fun! :p



Yes, i realize i goofed up on houses. I hate when I embarrass myself like that :(

It's houses. ;)

Your post reminds me of this little gem I had to read back in elementary school:

The English Lesson
We'll begin with box, and the plural is boxes,
But the plural of ox should be oxen, not oxes.
Then one fowl is goose, but two are called geese,
Yet the plural of moose should never be meese.
You may find a lone mouse or a whole lot of mice,
But the plural of house is houses, not hice.

If the plural of man is always called men,
Why shouldn't the plural of pan be pen?
The cow in the plural may be cows or kine,
But the plural of vow is vows, not vine.
And I speak of a foot, and you show me your feet,
But I give a boot... would a pair be beet?
If one is a tooth, and a whole set is teeth,
Why shouldn't the plural of booth be beeth?

If the singular is this, and the plural is these,
Why shouldn't the plural of kiss be kese?
Then one may be that, and three be those,
Yet the plural of hat would never be hose.
We speak of a brother, and also of brethren,
But though we say mother, we never say methren.

The masculine pronouns are he, his and him,
But imagine the feminine she, shis, and shim.
So our English, I think you will agree,
Is the trickiest language you ever did see.

I take it you already know
of tough, and bough and cough and dough?
Others may stumble, but not you
on hiccough, through, slough and though.
Well done! And now you wish, perhaps
To learn of less familiar traps?
Beware of heard, a dreadful word
That looks like beard and sounds like bird.
And dead; it's said like bed, not bead!
For goodness sake, don't call it deed!

Watch out for meat and great and threat,
(They rhyme with suite and straight and debt)
A moth is not a moth in mother,
Nor both in bother, broth in brother.
And here is not a match for there,
Nor dear and fear for bear and pear,
And then there's dose and rose and lose –
Just look them up – and goose and choose,
And cork and work and card and ward
And font and front and word and sword.

And do and go, then thwart and cart.
Come, come, I've hardly made a start.
A dreadful language: Why, man alive,
I'd learned to talk when I was five.
And yet to write it, the more I tried,
I hadn't learned it at fifty-five.

[An alternative version quotes the final couplet as:

And yet to write it, the more I sigh,
I'll not learn how 'til the day I die.]

I was sitting here and thinking about how much English sucks, as there is so many things that are quirky within it.

For instance: Plural of Goose= geese , but plural of mongoose= mongooses.

another one: Plural of mouse=mice, BUT plural of house=house.

Lets not forget that i rode up the windy road, that goes around the windy mountain. Or I wound the medical tape around her wound. No wonder people fail english classes:headbang:

Mongoose is not an English word. It's a Marathi (a language of India) word borrowed into English.

The plural of "house" is "houses".

I will give you the pronunciation oddities. That's what makes it fun! :p

Yes, i realize i goofed up on houses. I hate when I embarrass myself like that :(

Sorry Zilly :(

English is meh.

Yes, i realize i goofed up on houses. I hate when I embarrass myself like that :(

Don't sweat it. Have a cookie! :D

how about the names of animals and the meat that comes from them?

Cow=beef
lamb=mutton
pig=pork
(yay for French influence...the animal names are old English based, meat names are from French)

or how we make fish names plural...
Salmon=Salmon
Tuna=Tuna
Minnow=Minnows
Shark=Sharks

(The fish we traditionally eat are the same in both, those we don't eat are different. The exceptions are fish we have recently started to eat (shark) and anchovies (because they are so small, you wouldn't eat just one)

What it comes down do

Actually, it's sheep = mutton. Lamb (alive) = lamb (on the table). But good point. That Norman invasion expanded the English vocabulary hugely.

how about the names of animals and the meat that comes from them?

Cow=beef
lamb=mutton
pig=pork
(yay for French influence...the animal names are old English based, meat names are from French)

or how we make fish names plural...
Salmon=Salmon
Tuna=Tuna
Minnow=Minnows
Shark=Sharks

(The fish we traditionally eat are the same in both, those we don't eat are different. The exceptions are fish we have recently started to eat (shark) and anchovies (because they are so small, you wouldn't eat just one)

What it comes down do

I was sitting here and thinking about how much English sucks, as there is so many things that are quirky within it.

For instance: Plural of Goose= geese , but plural of mongoose= mongooses.

another one: Plural of mouse=mice, BUT plural of house=houses.
Oh oh what did he say, what did he say? :P
You are right but English has had a lot of words forced on it and absorbed many.

One i heard was a Sheep is a Sheep when it is alive but when its on the dinner table its different because the French/Normans/Evil oppressors got to eat it more than the Anglo workers of the land so that explained the name difference, but i'd have to check my book on that.

english might be a pain at times. But at least objects are simply the house, the car, the....
unlike french, spanish, etc... which seem to have to make the words masculine or feminie for some god awful reason.

Oh oh what did he say, what did he say? :P
You are right but English has had a lot of words forced on it and absorbed many.

One i heard was a Sheep is a Sheep when it is alive but when its on the dinner table its different because the French/Normans/Evil oppressors got to eat it more than the Anglo workers of the land so that explained the name difference, but i'd have to check my book on that.

I heard the same thing, but I wasn't there (I'm not QUITE that old).

Quite a lot of English oddities are from the foriegn influences on it. For example, I get funny looks when I pronounce "fatigue" like it's spelled.

english might be a pain at times. But at least objects are simply the house, the car, the....
unlike french, spanish, etc... which seem to have to make the words masculine or feminie for some god awful reason.

Yeah, I've always wondered how a table could be masculine or feminine, or how they decided which it was.

"Funny you should say that." (In the sense of "Funny that you mention that right now."

This construction throws me off whenever I encounter it.

I don't know why - probably because of the way "should" is used.

english might be a pain at times. But at least objects are simply the house, the car, the....
unlike french, spanish, etc... which seem to have to make the words masculine or feminine for some god awful reason.German also has a third one for neither masculine or feminine. And for some reason, girls are that third, "Das Mädchen". Even though you'd expect a girl to be classified as feminine.

It might occasionally have advantages, if it were in any way consistent with the facts.

German also has a third one for neither masculine or feminine. And for some reason, girls are the latter, "Das Mädchen". Even though you'd expect a girl to be classified as feminine.

It might occasionally have advantages, if it were in any way consistent with the facts.

after meeting a few east german girls i think i understand why

Your post reminds me of this little gem I had to read back in elementary school:
Wow! That's great, especially for a future English teacher. Thanks!!!
German also has a third one for neither masculine or feminine. And for some reason, girls are that third, "Das Mädchen". Even though you'd expect a girl to be classified as feminine.

It might occasionally have advantages, if it were in any way consistent with the facts.
In German, moon is masculin and sun is feminine. *shrug* It's just the way it is.

As for the Mädchen thing. Huh. Maybe they figured as long as she's not a woman she doesn't have a gender role and is neutral? I don't know.
after meeting a few east german girls i think i understand why
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/GermanNightmare/really.gif Really now?

"The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and riffle [sic] their pockets for new vocabulary."
– James D. Nichol

Trying to give English rules is a mistake, as it will never work. Anglophones are universally psychotic and don't take well to this sort of thing.

German also has a third one for neither masculine or feminine. And for some reason, girls are that third, "Das Mädchen". Even though you'd expect a girl to be classified as feminine.

It might occasionally have advantages, if it were in any way consistent with the facts.

The diminutive for -chen reguires the neutral form here... it's rather regular :)

As for the Mädchen thing. Huh. Maybe they figured as long as she's not a woman she doesn't have a gender role and is neutral? I don't know.
Bleh, beaten to it.
The diminutive for -chen reguires the neutral form here... it's rather regular :)

Curse you Reji!

21 Reasons Why The English Language Is Hard To Learn:
1) The bandage was wound around the wound.
2) The farm was used to produce produce.
3) The dump was so full that it had to refuse more refuse.
4) We must polish the Polish furniture.
5) He could lead if he would get the lead out.
6) The soldier decided to desert his dessert in the desert.
7) Since there is no time like the present, he thought it was
time to present the present.
8) A bass was painted on the head of the bass drum.
9) When shot at, the dove dove into the bushes.
10) I did not object to the object.
11) The insurance was invalid for the invalid.
12) There was a row among the oarsmen about how to row.
13) They were too close to the door to close it.
14) The buck does funny things when the does are present.
15) A seamstress and a sewer fell down into a sewer line.
16) To help with planting, the farmer taught his sow to sow.
17) The wind was too strong to wind the sail.
18) After a number of injections my jaw got number.
19) Upon seeing the tear in the painting I shed a tear.
20) I had to subject the subject to a series of tests.
21) How can I intimate this to my most intimate friend?

English FTW!

21 Reasons Why The English Language Is Hard To Learn:
1) The bandage was wound around the wound.
2) The farm was used to produce produce.
3) The dump was so full that it had to refuse more refuse.
4) We must polish the Polish furniture.
5) He could lead if he would get the lead out.
6) The soldier decided to desert his dessert in the desert.
7) Since there is no time like the present, he thought it was
time to present the present.
8) A bass was painted on the head of the bass drum.
9) When shot at, the dove dove into the bushes.
10) I did not object to the object.
11) The insurance was invalid for the invalid.
12) There was a row among the oarsmen about how to row.
13) They were too close to the door to close it.
14) The buck does funny things when the does are present.
15) A seamstress and a sewer fell down into a sewer line.
16) To help with planting, the farmer taught his sow to sow.
17) The wind was too strong to wind the sail.
18) After a number of injections my jaw got number.
19) Upon seeing the tear in the painting I shed a tear.
20) I had to subject the subject to a series of tests.
21) How can I intimate this to my most intimate friend?

At least it's better than German with all it's genders of words and stuff.
Mark Twain wrote some excellent stuff about the German language:

http://www.kombu.de/twain-2.htm

I particularly like this passage:
Every noun has a gender, and there is no sense or system in the distribution; so the gender of each must be learned separately and by heart. There is no other way. To do this one has to have a memory like a memorandum-book. In German, a young lady has no sex, while a turnip has. Think what overwrought reverence that shows for the turnip, and what callous disrespect for the girl. See how it looks in print -- I translate this from a conversation in one of the best of the German Sunday-school books:

"Gretchen: Wilhelm, where is the turnip?
Wilhelm: She has gone to the kitchen.
Gretchen: Where is the accomplished and beautiful English maiden?
Wilhelm: It has gone to the opera."

To continue with the German genders: a tree is male, its buds are female, its leaves are neuter; horses are sexless, dogs are male, cats are female -- tomcats included, of course; a person's mouth, neck, bosom, elbows, fingers, nails, feet, and body are of the male sex, and his head is male or neuter according to the word selected to signify it, and not according to the sex of the individual who wears it -- for in Germany all the women either male heads or sexless ones; a person's nose, lips, shoulders, breast, hands, and toes are of the female sex; and his hair, ears, eyes, chin, legs, knees, heart, and conscience haven't any sex at all. The inventor of the language probably got what he knew about a conscience from hearsay.

I heard the same thing, but I wasn't there (I'm not QUITE that old).

Quite a lot of English oddities are from the foriegn influences on it. For example, I get funny looks when I pronounce "fatigue" like it's spelled.

Blame the French for that one.

"Funny you should say that." (In the sense of "Funny that you mention that right now."

This construction throws me off whenever I encounter it.

I don't know why - probably because of the way "should" is used.

I think it's because it's the subjunctive. (I might well be wrong about that though.)

All of you go back to your hice, there's nothing to see here, it's just a herd of mongeese.

"The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and riffle [sic] their pockets for new vocabulary."
– James D. Nichol

You were doing so well there, what with including the original typing error from the usenet post, but then you went and botched the poor fellow's name - it should be 'Nicoll'.

All of you go back to your hice, there's nothing to see here, it's just a herd of mongeese.


:D

Every language has oddities; and English, just to show off how great our language-stealing skills are, has more than any others :p

Fixed.

The variations and amazing number of different sources of the "English" language, include:
Various regional dialects of original British Isles
Latin (from Romans and Church)
smatterings of Nordic languages from Viking invasions
some Germanic languages from Saxon invasions
French from the Norman invasions
and small numbers of words imported by administrators and travellers when Britain herself was an Empire from India, African, Caribbean and Asian colonies and dependancies.

I believe that these many sources and variations make the English language, written, spoken or sung, the most interesting and expressive language in the World for poetry, humour, songs and prose.

Every language has oddities; and English, just to show off how great our language-making skills are, has more than any others :p

I believe that these many sources and variations make the English language, written, spoken or sung, the most interesting and expressive language in the World for poetry, humour, songs and prose.

How many languages do you speak?

How many languages do you speak?

3 (including English) fairly well. Another 3 or 4 badly, but well enough to read and be understood, I think.

Why do you ask?

3 (including English) fairly well another 3 or 4 badly but well enough to read and be understood I think.

Why do you ask?

I ask because I don't find English to be very expressive at all. And I find your statement that English is superior to other languages surprising.

I ask because I don't find English to be very expressive at all. And I find your statement that English is superior to other languages surprising.

I admit that my knowledge of Asian languages is non-existant.

I am sure that if I knew Russian (with its many sources paralleling English), I would include that as another expressive language, however of the European languages I know, nothing comes close to English purely because of the freedom that the many meanings and pronounciations of similar looking and sounding words brings.

It is the very inconsistency of the language that lends itself to multiple meanings and expressions being perceptible at many levels of understanding and the associations of otherwise unrelated words that add additional possibilities for expressing hidden or esoteric meanings within written works.

It can also make analysis of English writing open to many interpretations - just look at reviews on the meanings of some of Shakespeare's works or even the interpretation of early English translations of the bible.

Actually, it's sheep = mutton. Lamb (alive) = lamb (on the table). But good point. That Norman invasion expanded the English vocabulary hugely.
There is a movement to construct an English language free from that Norman influence.

It's called Anglish.

The diminutive for -chen reguires the neutral form here... it's rather regular :)Yes, but clearly a girl is feminine. What's the point of having (supposedly) gender-indicative definite article when it doesn't indicate gender when there is one, and in many case does when there isn't one.
It's madness I tell you! Madness!!

There is a movement to construct an English language free from that Norman influence.

It's called Anglish.

I like them, they're silly. :D

Every language has oddities; and English, just to show off how great our language-making skills are, has more than any others :p

And that is as an island nation of mongrels we excel at takeing from the rest of the wordl and intergrating it into our own. Heheh food, music, language, populance, you see some good did come out of the British empire!

As all geneticist know a mixed genepool is far better than a stagnant one. Taking that into account then British language and culture must be the best in the world!:D

but plural of mongoose= mongooses

Although I have not checked in my OeD I believe that the plural can be either of these two.

For example I would use the singluar as the plural in the same way as sheep. Makes more sense to me. (there I go falling into the trap that english makes sense).

A German man who teaches english once said to me "english is a bunch of exceptions that prove the rule which does not exist"

Sums it up for me.

I ask because I don't find English to be very expressive at all. And I find your statement that English is superior to other languages surprising.

Well, the big advantage English has over most other languages is, quite simply, that it's huge - humongous, enormous, gigantic, expansive, tremendous, titanic, gargantuan, brobdingnagian, exceptionally large.

You get the idea. ;)

Well, the big advantage English has over most other languages is, quite simply, that it's huge - humongous, enormous, gigantic, expansive, tremendous, titanic, gargantuan, brobdingnagian, exceptionally large.

You get the idea. ;)

I realize that I'm biased on this, but I still find that english doesn't have as many words that can be used in conversation or text as my native language, Icelandic.
To me, the real advantage english has over Icelandic is that more people speak it.
I wouldn't get in as many places abroad without english (unless it was denmark, or a french speaking country).

I was sitting here and thinking about how much English sucks, as there is so many things that are quirky within it.

For instance: Plural of Goose= geese , but plural of mongoose= mongooses.

another one: Plural of mouse=mice, BUT plural of house=houses.

Lets not forget that i rode up the windy road, that goes around the windy mountain. Or I wound the medical tape around her wound. No wonder people fail english classes:headbang:


-edit- let it be known that I was not implying that I have ever done poorly in an english class, just venting over frustration with this language :D

Yes. See those who speak english and especially those who speak it from birth are far smarter than those who do not because its such a hard language to learn. Congrats you all are geniuses!:p

I realize that I'm biased on this, but I still find that english doesn't have as many words that can be used in conversation or text as my native language, Icelandic.
To me, the real advantage english has over Icelandic is that more people speak it.
I wouldn't get in as many places abroad without english (unless it was denmark, or a french speaking country).

Well, the entirety of my knowledge of Icelandic consists of having heard it spoken once and thinking it sounded neat, and I'm too lazy to actually look up information on the approximate number of Icelandic words, but I'd be willing to wager that English is a great deal larger. (What portion of the vocabulary of either language is used in regular conversation is obviously going to vary with the speaker, though I suspect that anyone, anywhere, is more likely to use unusual or obscure words in his or her native tongue than in second or third languages. In other words, Icelandic probably is more expressive for you.) :)

Personally, as someone who thinks every language is fascinating, I love English for its approach to interesting foreign words, i.e. stealing and adopting 'em willy-nilly. When one speaks English, one cannot help speaking French, German, Greek, Latin, Spanish, Norwegian, quite a few Native American tongues, Hindi, Japanese, and so on and so forth. It's wonderful.