NationStates Jolt Archive

I can tell you it would be pointless to put a bus system in the middle of Northern Indiana or anywhere on the plains. Outside of urban areas, public transit is pointless. BTW, Chicago, DC, NY, and all other major cities have good public transit.

Not true. There's no reason why light rail, tram and bus lines couldn't be run to suburbs in order to take people in to cities to work.

In fact, that was the way suburbs formed in the first place, and was the case until the late 1940's when companies like Standard Oil of New Jersey and GM used their massive influence to rip out many of the suburban mass transit systems and force highways through in their place.

Interesting. I see a lot of people with valid concerns (Public transportation is a big one for me), and a lot of people who really have no idea what they're talking about.

Living hear, I can say that people really aren't that intolerant. I live in Land O' Lakes, Florida. I'm an argumentative atheist, who is pro-gay marriage, anti-death, and pro-choice, and no one's been intolerant of my views.

My family is lower middle-class. We used to be quiet well-off, but my dad started his own business, which failed, taking with it quite a lot of our savings (including the college money for me and my siblings). Until recently, he was trapped in a series of jobs beneath his ability because of health insurance concerns, but he managed to get a good position.


My brother graduates from high school this year. He's going out with a 3.8 GPA, and is able to go to any college in Florida that he wants (he's choosing USF), with nothing but scholarship money. We have no debt, unlike most people I know. No one in my family attends any Church, and we own no guns, nor do any of the people I know.

I used to go to a Baptist, and then a Catholic, school, only because of my mother's distrust of the Public Schooling System, which turned out to be unfounded.

From my experiences, I think I'm happy living in the U.S.A., and I definitely think that a lot of people are basing their opinions on stereotypes as unfair as those about any racial group.

People sometimes talk about morality in a Godless nation, but America surely examplifies God in an amoral nation!

(though seeing church attendance figures, America isn't quite "fixated" on Jesus, nor is Sweden very atheist.)Hahaha :p

I didn't say Sweden's particularly non-religious. I said the country's indifferent towards religion. There's a difference. Where belief in divinity is pretty much a prerequisite in US politics, for example, it's irrelevant in Sweden. It doesn't mean Swedish politicians are atheists - I'm quite certain the most aren't - it just means religion doesn't have anything to do with it.

Fass, you really have zero idea of how gays are treated in the US if this is how you view us.


Yes - let's let Matthew Shepard be our gay ambassador. No - wait, beaten to death for being gay.

Unless the law has changed, isn't 'being gay' illegal in 20 states, still? Or at least, admitting to having 'gay' sex?

Kansas? Topeka, for example... hometown of Fred Phelps, who pickets the funerals of AIDS victims?

Of course I'm picking the loud and obnoxious examples - because it isn't all sweetness and light, and there's no point whitewashing that.

Yes - let's let Matthew Shepard be our gay ambassador. No - wait, beaten to death for being gay.
A crime that is universally condemned within the United States.

How about the President of Ohio State's Undergraduate Student Government. His sexuality wasn't even an issue in the campaign.

Unless the law has changed, isn't 'being gay' illegal in 20 states, still? Or at least, admitting to having 'gay' sex?
Overturned by the Supreme Court years ago.

Kansas? Topeka, for example... hometown of Fred Phelps, who pickets the funerals of AIDS victims?

You do realize the Mr. Phelps is universally loathed, save for by his close relatives, all members of his delusional cult?

Of course I'm picking the loud and obnoxious examples - because it isn't all sweetness and light, and there's no point whitewashing that.

Also irrelevant examples, but no matter.

Yes - let's let Matthew Shepard be our gay ambassador. No - wait, beaten to death for being gay.
Murders were caught and convicted, and the same type of killings happen in Europe (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/46692.stm).

Unless the law has changed, isn't 'being gay' illegal in 20 states, still? Or at least, admitting to having 'gay' sex?
The Supreme Court ruled those laws uncostitutional years ago. You can't be arrested for homosexuality.

Kansas? Topeka, for example... hometown of Fred Phelps, who pickets the funerals of AIDS victims?
See serial killer article. Phelp's entire "church" is made up of family members, and everyone hates him.

t doesn't mean Swedish politicians are atheists - I'm quite certain the most aren't - it just means religion doesn't have anything to do with it. Have fun explaining how the nonchalant lutheran nordic church, of which the majority of scandinavians are members of, isn't about religion at all...

Why are those God hating folks members of a church!?!, you ask. Tradition.
see... it's about the church doing good and and all that jive. The communists ruling here now didn't see it. That's why the church is alive even in Sweden.

A crime that is universally condemned within the United States.


Now, you know that is not true. That's the problem with generalisations.


Overturned by the Supreme Court years ago.


A little research suggests you might be right - it also suggests that 'years ago' isn't very many years ago. And that, in the case of Georgia, for example, the sodomy laws that were repealed by the Supreme Court in December of 1998, were upheld by the same Supreme Court only two and a half years earlier.

And, unless I'm much mistaken, Scalia, Thomas and Rehnquist all dissented, even in the June 2003 decision on the 'unconstitutionality' of those sodomy laws.

To paint the US as somehow united is deceptive.


You do realize the Mr. Phelps is universally loathed, save for by his close relatives, all members of his delusional cult?


I see him as representative. Not everyone would agree with his picketing, but a lot of people agree with his 'message'.

Murders were caught and convicted, and the same type of killings happen in Europe (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/46692.stm).


Whether they were caught and convicted is irrelevent. What is relevent is what they did, and why.

DId I say hate crime never happens anywhere else? No - I merely challenged Kats rose-coloured glasses on the US platform.


The Supreme Court ruled those laws uncostitutional years ago. You can't be arrested for homosexuality.


Again with the 'years'. But, 'years' isn't many years, is it - and the important thing is, until very recently, 20 states did have those laws.

Now, you know that is not true. That's the problem with generalisations.
Fine. It's not universally true, but the number of people who support his murder are so few and far between to be of no consequence. Derided by the American mainstream as "sick" and "twisted."



A little research suggests you might be right - it also suggests that 'years ago' isn't very many years ago. And that, in the case of Georgia, for example, the sodomy laws that were repealed by the Supreme Court in December of 1998, were upheld by the same Supreme Court only two and a half years earlier.

And, unless I'm much mistaken, Scalia, Thomas and Rehnquist all dissented, even in the June 2003 decision on the 'unconstitutionality' of those sodomy laws.

To paint the US as somehow united is deceptive.
And? The laws have been overturned.



I see him as representative. Not everyone would agree with his picketing, but a lot of people agree with his 'message'.

A lot is an awfully tiny minority. Even our current, rather conservative President believes AIDs to be a major problem, dedicating portions of multiple State of the Union Addresses to the matter. Only redneck nitwits continue to hold that viewpoint, and there are increasingly few of them.

The fallacies you're making are amazing.

Half-truths, Association Fallacies, Biased Sample, a whole plate of Faulty Generalizations...

The fallacies you're making are amazing.
As is your defenciveness. Quite telling.

As is your defenciveness. Quite telling.

Do black people get pissed when you call them lazy niggers? Yes they do.

I'm bristling at being classified as a homophobic redneck who needs the pity of the enlightened Europeans.

Do black people get pissed when you call them lazy niggers? Yes they do.

I'm bristling at being classified as a homophobic redneck who needs the pity of the enlightened Europeans.

No one said you needed it, some did say you have it but then what can you do about that?
If it makes you feel better I believe no pity should be wasted on your lot.

Fine. It's not universally true, but the number of people who support his murder are so few and far between to be of no consequence. Derided by the American mainstream as "sick" and "twisted."


There is a contention here. Not all those who agree homosexuals are a perversion, or should be 'isolated' in some way.. .or even that they should be 'done away with' would support the Matthew Shepard murderers.

Many people agree with the principle, if not the execution.


And? The laws have been overturned.


Very recently, under duress. I'm not arguing with the specifics, I am arguing with Kat's assertion that it's all just peachy. It isn't, and a new coat of paint is just covering cracks, not repairing them.


A lot is an awfully tiny minority. Even our current, rather conservative President believes AIDs to be a major problem, dedicating portions of multiple State of the Union Addresses to the matter. Only redneck nitwits continue to hold that viewpoint, and there are increasingly few of them.

Which viewpoint - that AIDS is a punishment from God? I'm not sure how small the minority would be - I've certainly encountered it in conversation, around 'here', over the last few months.

No one said you needed it, some did say you have it but then what can you do about that?
If it makes you feel better I believe no pity should be wasted on your lot.

As I said earlier. Prejudice.

Not that I want your pity, but that you would look down on Americans for some arbitrary reason is rather irritating.

There is a contention here. Not all those who agree homosexuals are a perversion, or should be 'isolated' in some way.. .or even that they should be 'done away with' would support the Matthew Shepard murderers.

Many people agree with the principle, if not the execution.
Once again, an extremely tiny minority.



Very recently, under duress. I'm not arguing with the specifics, I am arguing with Kat's assertion that it's all just peachy. It isn't, and a new coat of paint is just covering cracks, not repairing them.
Better house repair analogy would be along the lines a slow, cautious repairman. The US Government is intentionally designed to be phenomenally slow.



Which viewpoint - that AIDS is a punishment from God? I'm not sure how small the minority would be - I've certainly encountered it in conversation, around 'here', over the last few months.

And I've also encountered Europeans who believe that the Turks should be forbidden from immigrating because they're dirty Muslims who don't understand European life. Not that I believe more than five or six percent believe that.

Born in South Africa, but living in England now. Not that I dislike England, but I certainly wouldn't mind visiting/ living in the US.

It would be a living hell for me.

I dislike violence, consumerism, hedonism, SUVs, dodgy food, abortion, hypocrisy and far right-wing politics.
America, here I come. :D

Come to think of it, the thing that would probably bug me the most in day to day life over there is the fact that americans don't seem to have any understanding of sarcasm and irony.

What are you talking about? I'm always sarcastic. Except here. When I'm sarcastic here, I get yelled at because people think I'm serious. In fact, I only know one person in real life that doesn't understand sarcasm, and sadly, it's one of my friends.

This thread should be called "How would you like living in a Stereotyped United States?"


Pretty much.. I'm almost afraid to step outside my house now.. without my bible, AR-15 and gay-bashing stick, that is.. :p

As I said earlier. Prejudice.

Not that I want your pity, but that you would look down on Americans for some arbitrary reason is rather irritating. You can not take much, can you? In a fucking thread that asks people outside of the USA of their personal views of the US, you'd expect nobody can be wrong, right...

You have been an ass all along.

The problem with the view of the US held by most Europeans is that it is one of extremes. Most Europeans, having never been to the States, would likely get their view of America from the media and popular culture, not exactly balanced and representative sources. The same could be said of the reverse situation, American's view of Europe.

Pretty much.. I'm almost afraid to step outside my house now.. without my bible, AR-15 and gay-bashing stick, that is.. :p

Oh, but you have to step out of your house! How else will you get the McDonald's hamburgers you eat at every single meal? :p

You can not take much, can you? In a fucking thread that asks people outside of the USA of their personal views of the US, you'd expect nobody can be wrong, right...

You have been an ass all along.

Have I ever claimed to be anything but?

Well,

After wading through this cesspool disguising itself as an intelligent argument, I have come to a conclusion (I came to my workplace scanner glass just to send regards to my net girfriend but that's another story).

Most (I said MOST!) Americans seem (I said SEEM!) to be apologetic about them being all screwed up with religious kookiness. In Scandinavia we have lot less of that. Yes, in Finland state is still married with the Lutheran church, but what should matter here is what people in everyday life think of it, and how, if any, it affects them.

Thus the retort "our state and church are separated when yours are not" is quite pathetic bullscheisse. In practice Finland, Scandinavia and to some extent the rest of EU are way more secular and tolerant societies. Over half of our citizens choose a civil marriage even as they ARE church members.

I dunno about you, but to me it tells something about people getting fed up with hypocrisy and stayind in the congregation just because.

Joona

I've also encountered Europeans who believe that the Turks should be forbidden from immigrating because they're dirty Muslims who don't understand European life. Not that I believe more than five or six percent believe that.Dunno 'bout that. Then again, my lover's Turkish, so perhaps I run into a disproportional amount of xenophobic idiocy. Anyway, from where I'm sitting, 30%+ sounds a lot more realistic. Depending on the exact location, you might have to double that number.

Might interest you to know that most EU countries actively discriminate, even on visa levels, against Muslim majority countries (Turkey included). In terms of Schengen, it's encouraged to label all Muslim majority countries as category 3 countries (undesirables who'll immigrate illegally).

Incidently, much as I hate America & everything it stands for (and I really do), even I have to recognise that the US is comparatively non-racist & immigrant-friendly. The exact opposite is (rapidly) increasingly untrue of the European continent as a whole.

Once again, an extremely tiny minority.


Can you prove it? I encounter it on an almost daily basis - which makes me suspect it might be more wide-spread than you suggest.


Better house repair analogy would be along the lines a slow, cautious repairman. The US Government is intentionally designed to be phenomenally slow.


Why are we quibbling the details? Are you saying Kat was right, and that there is no problem? Or - do you think there might be contentions for some?


And I've also encountered Europeans who believe that the Turks should be forbidden from immigrating because they're dirty Muslims who don't understand European life. Not that I believe more than five or six percent believe that.

I've seen that particular attitude much more 'here' than I ever did 'over there', just as I see the arguments that people 'deserve' AIDS much more since I hit these less-than-perfect shores.

This thread is perception - my perception is that the US is more racist, more homophobic, and less generally tolerant. It's what I've seen here, versus what I saw there.

Have I ever claimed to be anything but?

I don't know. I haven't noticed you before. You say you are just posting to get a neg reaction..?

If so... good job.

I don't know. I haven't noticed you before. You say you are just posting to get a neg reaction..?

If so... good job.

Honestly. Do you think I come here for butterflies and unicorns? Fuck no. I come here to piss people off, and get pissed off in turn.

I've never noticed you before either, so welcome to the party.

America, here I come. :DJust don't hope to get married. :)

Dunno 'bout that. Then again, my lover's Turkish, so perhaps I run into a disproportional amount of xenophobic idiocy. Anyway, from where I'm sitting, 30%+ sounds a lot more realistic. Depending on the exact location, you might have to double that number.

Might interest you to know that most EU countries actively discriminate, even on visa levels, against Muslim majority countries (Turkey included). In terms of Schengen, it's encouraged to label all Muslim majority countries as category 3 countries (undesirables who'll immigrate illegally).

Incidently, much as I hate America & everything it stands for (and I really do), even I have to recognise that the US is comparatively non-racist & immigrant-friendly. The exact opposite is (rapidly) increasingly untrue of the European continent as a whole.

Honestly, I did not know that before.

I don't know. I haven't noticed you before. You say you are just posting to get a neg reaction..?

If so... good job.

You should ask yourself the same question.

Just don't hope to get married. :)
Heh, I have no plans of enshackling myself to a guy, so no worries. :)

I've never noticed you before either, so welcome to the party.That I can appreciate. I thought you were serious there for a moment, hence the reaction.




See, you claiming USA being better than something else. Silly...

See, you claiming USA being bettern than anything else. Silly...

Something I never claimed, nor would I ever claim. I'm not a fan of normative judgements along those lines.

I claimed that to look down on the US and it's people for the reasons that most people here have listed, though, was nothing more than common prejudice.

Honestly, I did not know that before.Consider it fresh ammo for anti-European rants then ;)

In general; what's wrong with the US is wrong everywhere else as well. In most of Europe, the problems tends to be less pronounced, but they're there all the same.
The real differences are the cultural values & your problems divorcing religion & politics.

Speaking as a Brit there are certain things I admire about America, such as their patriotism. But overall I wouldn't want to live in America. This is because when I look at the way my country is going, we're going more and more the way of America in ways which I don't like.

America has a very consumerist culture, with Britain following closely, particularly compared to other European countries. There's a bigger gap in America between rich and poor, though we're far from great on that front. America has higher crime than Britain (Though I'll admit that crime in America seems to be going down while in Britain it's the opposite). The NHS, while by no means perfect is definitely better than America's healthcare system. I despise Britain's multiculturalism and the way the concept of nationality in this country has been degraded to the level of being a club which anyone can join when they get the right piece of paper. America always has been and always will be a multicultural society, even more so than Britain, so I wouldn't like that one bit. America also seems to be a very politically correct country, even more so than us and we're the most PC-obsessed bunch in Europe! America is also the country that gave the world rap music, hardly the sign of a good culture.

So while there are plenty of worse places in the world to move to than America, it wouldn't be top of my list by any means.

Bah. I can't really tell of the good old United States of not having lived there. Just as I couldn't really tell of any country I haven't lived in.

But there is one thing I wish to say:

Reise, Reise Seemann Reise
Jeder tut's auf seine Weise

In case any of you didn't get the point I suggest you see the vid on youtube or something.

Take care,

Joona

Im about 15 miles from Canada, does that count eh?

Confuesed. So very, very confused.

This thread should be called "How would you like living in a Stereotyped United States?"

*grumble*

I have to tell you, I'm from New England, and up here, we're all Godless communists who hate our government and support gun control.

I have to tell you, I'm also from New England, and I'm not a Godless communist (Catholic non-communist), I don't hate our government (although I don't agree with a lot of the stuff that's happened in it, since the new millenium), and I don't support gun control (unless you consider gun control to mean hitting what you're aiming at).

I'm an American, born here in California. I have a Net friend from Finland here in this forum...

I wish you other Yanks here could take the blinders off for a moment and really look around for just one minute.

Are any of you aware that when people get sick in this country, the health insurance companies find clever little ways to not pay up, and the sick folks go bankrupt?:headbang:

Did you know that's not likely to happen in most of Europe?

Did you see what happened when Hurricane Katrina hit, and even spare a moment of sympathy for those folks, instead of smugly blaming them for being poor?

Did it ever ONCE occur to you that the Europeans got so sick and tired of the centuries of war and then two World Wars on their soil that they finally wised up and said NO MORE?

Now, let's up the ante a bit, and uncover one of the reasons we aren't the hottest thing around...

We did this to ourselves, despite the warnings our Founders left behind for us.

The situation of having only two major political parties in the United States leads to an unnecessary polarization of the society in times of crisis. There is also the religious aspect, which confers an added burden on the political process, and prevents debate on essential issues by agitating the public with meaningless subjects not pertinent to the well-being of the nation or its citizens.

We have the right to throw this fossilized structure aside, if we only have the will, and the courage.

Not to destroy but to renew, to and make better what has been damaged.

Because, believe me....it's not working the way it is right now.

I'm an American, born here in California. I have a Net friend from Finland here in this forum...

I wish you other Yanks here could take the blinders off for a moment and really look around for just one minute.

Are any of you aware that when people get sick in this country, the health insurance companies find clever little ways to not pay up, and the sick folks go bankrupt?:headbang:
All of them? :eek:

Did you see what happened when Hurricane Katrina hit, and even spare a moment of sympathy for those folks, instead of smugly blaming them for being poor?
Why, yes, I did, thanks for asking.

Did it ever ONCE occur to you that the Europeans got so sick and tired of the centuries of war and then two World Wars on their soil that they finally wised up and said NO MORE?
I didn't vote for the Frat Boy in Chief. Twice. A lot of people agree that war's not a solution. You didn't invent this position.

Now, let's up the ante a bit, and uncover one of the reasons we aren't the hottest thing around...

We did this to ourselves, despite the warnings our Founders left behind for us.

The situation of having only two major political parties in the United States leads to an unnecessary polarization of the society in times of crisis. There is also the religious aspect, which confers an added burden on the political process, and prevents debate on essential issues by agitating the public with meaningless subjects not pertinent to the well-being of the nation or its citizens.

We have the right to throw this fossilized structure aside, if we only have the will, and the courage.

Not to destroy but to renew, to and make better what has been damaged.

Because, believe me....it's not working the way it is right now.
So, propose something new. What will you put in place of the fossil. I'm listening.

For my beloved expatriates of NorCal now reigning in Razzistan:

I can only say WOW! And I don't mean Warcraft here. Takes guts to criticize one's own country so roughly even if you weren't that patriotic. IMO, little kitten, you are right as far as I can tell. Care to share a nuclear weapons test with me? They kinda turn me on.

But criticism is what we need, says former miss Funnyland and now minister of culture and education. "We need boobies. Better boobies. They will get people to the vote."

Holy Emperor Joona

All of them? :eek:
So, propose something new. What will you put in place of the fossil. I'm listening.

Are you perhaps of a generaton akin to fossils in gene pools.? Tha
aaat is frakkin groovy. High five, man! Your archaeology skills are commendable, but they still do not quite seem to tell a difference between a Trabant and a lada. Not to mention SAAB.

Woooooahhh I'm wankered! But merry tidings to yea folks anyway.

The real differences are the cultural values & your problems divorcing religion & politics.
I don't see how religion has any real impact on US politics when it comes to important issues (i.e. not gay marriage).

I don't see how religion has any real impact on US politics when it comes to important issues (i.e. not gay marriage).You must be closing your eyes behind the blindfold you're wearing, down in that well you're hiding in.

I don't see how religion has any real impact on US politics when it comes to important issues (i.e. not gay marriage).

I think that might be more of a reflection on you, than on American politics. We have a President who has claimed divine commandment as the reason for the war, we have health issues being decided based on how people living in the desert 2000 years ago might have handled it (abortion, stem cells, euthanasia), and we have a party currently in power that gained a large part of their voting bloc before the last election by claiming that the other party wanted to take your bibles away...

You must be closing your eyes behind the blindfold you're wearing, down in that well you're hiding in.
I don't think so. Look at major US political issues:

Iraq War: unrelated to religion
Global Warming: unrelated to religion
Immigration: unrelated to religion
Health/Education/Welfare: unrelated to religion
Guns: unrelated to religion
Abortion: related to religion
Death Penalty: unrelated to religion

I can't think of any more.

I think that might be more of a reflection on you, than on American politics. We have a President who has claimed divine commandment as the reason for the war
There is no religious agenda in Iraq. You say the reason for the Iraq war was because God says so; I call bullshit.

There are numerous and universally dishonest reasons for the Iraq war:

-WMDs
-liberating the Iraqis
-Saddam "broke a treaty"
-stay the course
-etc.

The real reasons are that America needs oil and American corporations want lebensraum. It is most certainly a secular war. I don't think any western country has waged a war in the name of Christianity since at least 1750.

I don't think so. Look at major US political issues:
<Snip>I just did, and while I'm pretty ignorant of the gun control thing, it's plain in the media that religion has assloads to do with public opinion of the rest of the issues on that list.

You may say that's just propaganda & that the majority of those issues are secular in nature, but in practice, nature doesn't have anything to do with politics in a system where populism wins the day. It's all about perception, not facts.

I just did, and while I'm pretty ignorant of the gun control thing, it's plain in the media that religion has assloads to do with public opinion of the rest of the issues on that list.

You may say that's just propaganda & that the majority of those issues are secular in nature, but in practice, nature doesn't have anything to do with politics in a system where populism wins the day. It's all about perception, not facts.
I'm also a resident of Northern Europe and I'm not seeing the religious aspect to these American issues, though like you I'm not an expert on them.

Many Americans say that religion is important to them, but their cultural values -and thus politics- are clearly based on money (and associated liberal ideas), not religion.

Maybe you could outline the religious aspect to some of the listed issues?

There is no religious agenda in Iraq. You say the reason for the Iraq war was because God says so; I call bullshit.

There are numerous and universally dishonest reasons for the Iraq war:

-WMDs
-liberating the Iraqis
-Saddam "broke a treaty"
-stay the course
-etc.

The real reasons are that America needs oil and American corporations want lebensraum. It is most certainly a secular war. I don't think any western country has waged a war in the name of Christianity since at least 1750.

I didn't say it was a religious issue - the President did. That's the point I'm making.

As an Atheist, I have no need to look for divine cause for the things men do. But that doesn't mean I can't see it when others do.

Regarding the other issues - many issues are not religious directly, obviously - but become religious when people vote along 'religious' lines - like the current argument over stemcells. Gun control might be the only issue you suggested that is decided entirely secularly - and I wouldn't be sure about that.

(As an example, my mother-in-law votes along 'church' lines on a number of issues, and her church opposes things like the Kyoto Treaty. Their 'logic' is the biblically, God will not allow the world to be destroyed until he lets it happen, and they believe the 'last days' are upon us already, and there is no point even worrying about screwing up the atmospphere for great-grandchildren yet to be - because the current world will have ended by then).

I'm an American, born here in California. I have a Net friend from Finland here in this forum...

I wish you other Yanks here could take the blinders off for a moment and really look around for just one minute.
Let me try.

Are any of you aware that when people get sick in this country, the health insurance companies find clever little ways to not pay up, and the sick folks go bankrupt?:headbang: I agree. We need greater over-sight on insurance companies.



Did you see what happened when Hurricane Katrina hit, and even spare a moment of sympathy for those folks, instead of smugly blaming them for being poor?I too understand that there's NEVER been ANY criticism of the handling of Katrina.

Did it ever ONCE occur to you that the Europeans got so sick and tired of the centuries of war and then two World Wars on their soil that they finally wised up and said NO MORE? No,because they haven't. Europe will still have wars.

Now, let's up the ante a bit, and uncover one of the reasons we aren't the hottest thing around...

We did this to ourselves, despite the warnings our Founders left behind for us.

The situation of having only two major political parties in the United States leads to an unnecessary polarization of the society in times of crisis. There is also the religious aspect, which confers an added burden on the political process, and prevents debate on essential issues by agitating the public with meaningless subjects not pertinent to the well-being of the nation or its citizens. I'm confused. I hear some people going on about polarization, and others saying the two parties are the exact same.

We have the right to throw this fossilized structure aside, if we only have the will, and the courage.
Not to destroy but to renew, to and make better what has been damaged.

Because, believe me....it's not working the way it is right now.
I believe whole-heartedly in breaking the two party system. Having said that, it's worked well enough to make us the world's only superpower.

I didn't say it was a religious issue - the [quote]President did. That's the point I'm making.When?

As an Atheist, I have no need to look for divine cause for the things men do. But that doesn't mean I can't see it when others do.
Good for you. The world needs more atheists.

Regarding the other issues - many issues are not religious directly, obviously - but become religious when people vote along 'religious' lines - like the current argument over stemcells. Gun control might be the only issue you suggested that is decided entirely secularly - and I wouldn't be sure about that. Stemcells are in many ways tied to abortion which has been a religious issue for the past hundred years.

(As an example, my mother-in-law votes along 'church' lines on a number of issues, and her church opposes things like the Kyoto Treaty. Their 'logic' is the biblically, God will not allow the world to be destroyed until he lets it happen, and they believe the 'last days' are upon us already, and there is no point even worrying about screwing up the atmospphere for great-grandchildren yet to be - because the current world will have ended by then). What church is she part of? The religious right is powerful because they're nearly uniformly decided on the issues, not because there's legions of fanatics.

I'm just wandering what your impression of living in America would be.

Not trying to start a political argument, but if you were someone of the same class as you are now, living in America, what do you think life would be like?

Overall, pretty good. I'd be happy to go to the US.

It would probably be pretty good, other than that my political opinion on things is pretty... urmm... 'controversial' in the US it seems.

My dad earns the equivalent of about $85,000 a year, so life would probably be relatively pleasant, creature-comforts-wise, but I think the cultural differences would be fairly ridiculous.

When?


He was 'outed' by a Whitehouse staffer on the matter, a fair while back. First term stuff.


Stemcells are in many ways tied to abortion which has been a religious issue for the past hundred years.


There has even been opposition to the 'abortion-free' variety.


What church is she part of? The religious right is powerful because they're nearly uniformly decided on the issues, not because there's legions of fanatics.

She's a Southern Baptist. There are a lot of them, and - while they probably aren't all as extreme as her - a lot of stuff that has come out of the Southern Baptist Conferences in recent years suggests she isn't far from the mean.

I think life would be easier, at least economicaly.

Yet, at the same time, I think it must sucks that rent and food is so expensive there.

Around here food and rent is very cheap, while electronics are very expensive. I guess its the oposite in the US. I´ve talked with an american guy from Washington D.C and he said his rent was $1.500/month. So, instead of paying rent, he used the same $1.500 dolars to travel around the world :lol:

It must also sucks to see a lot of fat people every day, and it must sucks that most of the women are ugly. The ones that arent are famous or bitches.

Also, sexuality is not a big issue around here. Boobs, butt, even dicks are ok. So I think it would be weird to live in the US and see that violence is far more normal than sexuality.


Right.... And I guess it must suck living in England and looking at everyones bad teeth, or Germany and being around a bunch of Nazis... Oh and I would hate to live in France and with all the snobby Frogs everywhere.[sarcasm] :rolleyes:

I dont know where you got the all women are ugly statement, there are tons of hot women in my area, and none of them are famous, some of them are bitches, but that it the case everywhere. And no, not everyone is fat you arrogant asshole.

Right.... And I guess it must suck living in England and looking at everyones bad teeth, or Germany and being around a bunch of Nazis... Oh and I would hate to live in France and with all the snobby Frogs everywhere. :rolleyes:


Yeah! And I hate living in america where the majority of people are gun-toting ignorant people!


Oh...wait...DAMMIT!!!

Seriously, I like living in America. Just not right now. I won't mind when we get a nice liberal in the White House.

Im looking forward to a centrist myself, leaves out most of the left/rightwing bullshit, but I doubt a centrist will ever be in office.