NationStates Jolt Archive

What's bottlenecking my system more: my Pentium 4 3.2GHz, or my 1GB of generic DDR2 RAM?

Yes.

Win95ME

...

I'm using XP.

Win95ME

Indeed.

I agree. That and probably your lack of a Mac.

Indeed.
Delectable.

...

I'm using XP.
Case closed.

Yes.

Indeed.

Your background Audio driver start up; java update checker; adobe reader speedlaunch; adobe update checker; modem background program; various spyware; Weather bug, google toolbar updates, and other pointless shit non tech savvy people put on their computer; ipod service & ipod background program; windows messenger; quicktime updater; etc etc.

And 1GB of RAM.

What's bottlenecking my system more: my Pentium 4 3.2GHz, or my 1GB of generic DDR2 RAM?

Your harddrive and graphics card.
Of these two, I'd say the memory though.

Your harddrive and graphics card.
Of these two, I'd say the memory though.

Who the hell gets bottlenecked by a GeForce 8800 GTX?

Your background Audio driver start up; java update checker; adobe reader speedlaunch; adobe update checker; modem background program; various spyware; Weather bug, google toolbar updates, and other pointless shit non tech savvy people put on their computer; ipod service & ipod background program; windows messenger; quicktime updater; etc etc.

And 1GB of RAM.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/vonbek/imagess.jpg

I agree. That and probably your lack of a Mac.

"Mac" and "power" are mutually exclusive. Don't make me bring up the "Mac guy, PC guy" argument again.

Who the hell gets bottlenecked by a GeForce 8800 GTX?

Depends. Is your powersource up to it ?

Depends. Is your powersource up to it ?

Antec TruePower 2.0 550W.

What's bottlenecking my system more: my Pentium 4 3.2GHz, or my 1GB of generic DDR2 RAM?

It would be the harddrive more than the memory and the CPU.

The harddrive is the slowest piece of hardware in your computer, especially the IDE drives. SATA drives are a little better for speed, but because the drive has to read and write, it takes time and it slows down the system.

Getting a newer SATA drive, if your MOBO is compatible may help ease that bottle neck.

EDIT - run 'msconfig' from your Run Programs option in the start menu and go into the Startup tab and look at what is listed. Chances are there are programs that are starting up that is slowing down your initial start up. If something is located anywhere but in the WINDOWS system directory, chances are, you can live without it.

I like to start up the bare minimum. I don't have any chat clients starting up. I disabled all updaters.

I only have my firewall, anti-virus program and my core processes starting up. I find that anything that generally gets installed in Program Files doesn't need to start up when you initially boot up, unless it's part of the security package.

It would be the harddrive more than the memory and the CPU.

The harddrive is the slowest piece of hardware in your computer, especially the IDE drives. SATA drives are a little better for speed, but because the drive has to read and write, it takes time and it slows down the system.

Getting a newer SATA drive, if your MOBO is compatible may help ease that bottle neck.

Oh no, I'm not getting a new HDD. I just got a 320GB IDE HDD. I'll wait it out a little while.

I'm just wondering why my computer is performing so poorly with what is easily the best graphics card in the world right now. I mean, I'm getting 15-30 FPS on Oblivion, with full settings sans AA, on 1440x900 resolution. According to what I've read on the web, I should be tearing it the fuck up.

Oh no, I'm not getting a new HDD. I just got a 320GB IDE HDD. I'll wait it out a little while.

I'm just wondering why my computer is performing so poorly with what is easily the best graphics card in the world right now. I mean, I'm getting 15-30 FPS on Oblivion, with full settings sans AA, on 1440x900 resolution. According to what I've read on the web, I should be tearing it the fuck up.
Run Oblivion in 800x600 and turn up the detail except for grass and HDR, leave bloom off and use AA.

I had the same problem. Running it at a lower resolution works wonders. It looks good if you turn up the detail.

If you miss the grass, there is a hack that will put in grass that doesn't require the GPU to render it.

EDIT - run 'msconfig' from your Run Programs option in the start menu and go into the Startup tab and look at what is listed. Chances are there are programs that are starting up that is slowing down your initial start up. If something is located anywhere but in the WINDOWS system directory, chances are, you can live without it.


Alot easier to manage with Windows Antispyware.

Run Oblivion in 800x600 and turn up the detail except for grass and HDR, leave bloom off and use AA.

I had the same problem. Running it at a lower resolution works wonders. It looks good if you turn up the detail.

If you miss the grass, there is a hack that will put in grass that doesn't require the GPU to render it.

But this is an 8800. I should be able to run it at 15-30 FPS on 2048×1536 resolution if I wanted to. Besides, 1440x900 is widescreen, I'm not giving up widescreen.

But this is an 8800. I should be able to run it at 15-30 FPS on 2048×1536 resolution if I wanted to. Besides, 1440x900 is widescreen, I'm not giving up widescreen.

Did you download the newest drivers for your video card?

If not, get the 8800 drivers and not the GeForce drivers.

I'm aware that it's wide-screen. But, since I don't have wide-screen, I think in normal terms. So, I recommend using the 800x600 wide screen equivalent for running your game. You can leave your desktop resolution whatever you want. Once it's down, test it at the resolutions, and bring it up to a higher resolution.

I had an issue with Oblivion and a low FPS when I ran it at maximum at 1280x1024, and it was better when I turned it down and left the detail up. Even with the detail turned down and sans AA, at 1280x1024, I had less than adequate FPS in battle.

It's not just Oblivion, it's Company of Heroes too. So it's a whole system thing. I wanna know what I should upgrade next, my CPU or my RAM?

And yes, I have the latest 8800 drivers. I check just about every day.

But this is an 8800. I should be able to run it at 15-30 FPS on 2048×1536 resolution if I wanted to. Besides, 1440x900 is widescreen, I'm not giving up widescreen.

Widescreen adds nothing and most games arn't optimized for it. break it down to a regular size and buy another half gig of ram.

It's not just Oblivion, it's Company of Heroes too. So it's a whole system thing. I wanna know what I should upgrade next, my CPU or my RAM?

And yes, I have the latest 8800 drivers. I check just about every day.
I'd say HDD or RAM. Oblivion (not terribly familiar with CoH, IIRC it is graphics heavy) has a shitload of textures to load, but if it can store them in RAM, it will which will speed things up. Does Oblivion have a function that will display memory usage during playtime? Check it out. If it uses about ~700 MB you should get more. At that point, Windows just starts sending shit to virtual memory to try to keep some RAM open for itself.

But your numbers are still quite worrying. With a 7900GT and 1GB of RAM, you should be able to get more than 45 fps at 1280x1024. with the default settings maxed.

Widescreen adds nothing and most games arn't optimized for it. break it down to a regular size and buy another half gig of ram.

I shifted down to 1024x768; not much of an increase.

I'm thinking it's my RAM. 1GB is pretty... standard, these days, and I hear generic can cause hell.

This thread is just a chance to boast about all that nice kit, isn't it? ;)

HD is only going to affect level load times and such, unless there's swapping going on in-game. Some slowness at first is not a huge issue, while the game takes the lion's share of what RAM you do have. But it sounds worse than that.

Here's a thought: could you borrow a coupla gigs of nice RAM from a friend, see if that improves matters before spending more money?

Upgrading the processor is probably going to mean Core 2, and that might mean a new mobo. Try the RAM first.

Here's a thought: could you borrow a coupla gigs of nice RAM from a friend, see if that improves matters before spending more money?

Upgrading the processor is probably going to mean Core 2, and that might mean a new mobo. Try the RAM first.

Nah, all my friend are running older systems. Well, older compared to me.

Besides, my mobo is ready for Core 2, be it Duo or Quad. Either way, I'll be upgrading both soon. Regardless of WHAT is causing the current slowdown, I expect to see a considerable increase in performance from those upgrades.

Now, here's the kicker; and I know I'm going to look like an idiot for not mentioning this sooner.

My IDE HDDs are running through a PCI IDE card. It's that, isn't it?

Now, here's the kicker; and I know I'm going to look like an idiot for not mentioning this sooner.

My IDE HDDs are running through a PCI IDE card. It's that, isn't it?

I'm tired and shouldn't be posting, 'cos I'll explode or say something wildly wrong for no reason.

Use the process of elimination. Take the silly thing out and see if that fixes it.
You didn't mention sound. Onboard sound can be really sucky. Try playing the game with it turned off (if that's possible) or disable it in the BIOS. If your sound is on a card, pull the silly thing out. (EDIT: uninstall drivers first?)

Core 2 and Core Duo are not the same thing. Core 2 (eg E6600 or E6800) owns.

Oh, stuffit. Buy the RAM. DDR2 won't be obsolete anytime soon (X fingers)

Now, here's the kicker; and I know I'm going to look like an idiot for not mentioning this sooner.

My IDE HDDs are running through a PCI IDE card. It's that, isn't it?

It's probably not doing any good, but unless you're so badly out of RAM that you're swapping to disk (and if you're still getting 15fps, you're not) it's not going to make a blindest bit of difference to the frame-rate, as Nobel Hobos said.

It's probably both the CPU and RAM, really. Make sure you don't have any crap running to use up the memory you do have. Also, if you've modified Oblivion at all, or used any .ini tweaks, try the defaults; mods slowed it down quite a bit for me.

Anandtech did a test (http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2747&p=3), and the P4 3.2GHz didn't fare so well in Oblivion. As those numbers are similar to yours (and an 8800 is similar performance to Crossfire X1900s) it looks like the CPU is probably hurting you the most.

Use the process of elimination. Take the silly thing out and see if that fixes it.

Probably won't work. See, my OS is now set to work with the PCI card.

Core 2 and Core Duo are not the same thing. Core 2 (eg 6600 or 6800) owns.

There is a TYPE of Core 2, called Core 2 Duo. Actually, that's the only type.

snip

Yep, that sounds almost exactly like me. The FPS is tolerable, but annoying, in large detailed areas, while much better in dungeons. Towns are so-so.

That's it! I'm getting a Core 2 Duo!

Probably won't work. See, my OS is now set to work with the PCI card.
I knew that. I just tried some positive self-talk, and told myself that there was a remote chance your nice new 320G wasn't on the card, and your OS was on the nice new disk.

Positive self-talk doesn't work well for me. Calling myself an idiot and hitting my head real hard with the palm of my hand to make sure, does seem to work.

Least likely culprit anyway, unless perhaps you have one of those dreadful Sound Blaster Live's on the PCI bus at the same time. Still unlikely.

PCI bus is (IMHO) the best PC invention since the x86 processor. I love it.

There is a TYPE of Core 2, called Core 2 Duo. Actually, that's the only type.

:fizzing noise, slight smell of burning:
There is also a Core Duo, which is not a Core 2. This would be easier if you just mentioned the model of your mobo ?
Oh, and your sound?

:fizzing noise, slight smell of burning:
There is also a Core Duo, which is not a Core 2. This would be easier if you just mentioned the model of your mobo ?
Oh, and your sound?

My mobo is a Asus P5B, it can handle just about anything for maybe the next half-year, or a year if we're lucky. Sound is onboard "SoundMax."

My mobo is a Asus P5B, it can handle just about anything for maybe the next half-year, or a year if we're lucky. Sound is onboard "SoundMax."

Hey, I can answer that without any research at all! I've got a P5B (not what I'm typing this on) and yes, it's Core 2 compatible. I've got my doubts about the board, actually: one (!) PATA socket, and it's run by that crappy JMicron SATA controller. Adds horribly to the boot time and doesn't do RAID at all reliably.
The sound doesn't seem to cause problems for me though. Got a TV card on the PCI, too.
Still worth disabling the sound to see I'd say. Won't harm anything, won't cost you money.

The last post on this page mentions the P5B (http://forums.microsoft.com/TechNet/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=1138522&SiteID=17)

I'm going to bed now (long overdue it feels). Hope something I said was helpful.

I've got my doubts about the board, actually: one (!) PATA socket,

That's just about every modern mobo.

Still worth disabling the sound to see I'd say. Won't harm anything, won't cost you money.

Tried, no performance change. The sound doesn't actually SOUND good in Oblivion, but that's just because the game is freaking picky about sound cards.

No, I'm pretty sure it's my CPU, now.

I bet it's your internet connection. If you disconnect your computer for a couple of weeks, it'll speed things up.

What?

Now, here's the kicker; and I know I'm going to look like an idiot for not mentioning this sooner.

My IDE HDDs are running through a PCI IDE card. It's that, isn't it?

If I'm correct, that should probably speed it up because a card handles everything the motherboard would have to instead. And wtf, why do you even have a PCI IDE card?

You probably have a bunch of pointless shit background programs running and/or spyware/adware/viruses.

TPF, if you do upgrade the CPU, most games are not yet optimised to take advantage of duel-core processors, so, while it make help to alleviate the stress put on the system by memory-hungry applications, it won't help games.

First before you do anything, get Spybot, or any other half-decent anti-spyware program and run it. It might find some nasty shit there, it may not. Next, repeat the same process with your anti-virus.

Our Hard Drive
Which art internal
Volume C by name;
Thy code be clean,
Thy fonts be seen
On screen as they are on paper.
Give us this day our documents,
And lead us not into fragmentation
But deliver us our data.
For thine is the SCSI,
And the EISA, and the NuBus,
Forever and Ever,
Amen

If I'm correct, that should probably speed it up because a card handles everything the motherboard would have to instead. And wtf, why do you even have a PCI IDE card?

One IDE mobo connection, 4 IDE devices. You work it out.

I'm tired and shouldn't be posting, 'cos I'll explode or say something wildly wrong for no reason.

Use the process of elimination. Take the silly thing out and see if that fixes it.
You didn't mention sound. Onboard sound can be really sucky. Try playing the game with it turned off (if that's possible) or disable it in the BIOS. If your sound is on a card, pull the silly thing out. (EDIT: uninstall drivers first?)

Core 2 and Core Duo are not the same thing. Core 2 (eg E6600 or E6800) owns.

Oh, stuffit. Buy the RAM. DDR2 won't be obsolete anytime soon (X fingers)

Actually, the Duo indicates the number of cores. Core and Core 2 refer to the architecture of the chip (like Pentium and Pentium II). So both Core Duo and Core 2 Duo are correct.

TPF, if you do upgrade the CPU, most games are not yet optimised to take advantage of duel-core processors, so, while it make help to alleviate the stress put on the system by memory-hungry applications, it won't help games.
First, that still helps. Even if the game cannot use the second core, the OS will which can make a hell of a difference (plus it will allow him to leave WinAmp running with a negligible performance drop). Second, Core 2 is only available in dual core and quad core configurations. Intel did not bother making a single core version as it would be a waste of effort. Multithreading will be standard in CPU intensive apps by the end of the Core 2's life. Buying a single core would only force him to upgrade earlier. Third, and most important, the Core 2 is the fastest gaming chip regardless of the fact that most games just ignore the second core. The only thing that is really going to get you close is a massively overclocked Opteron 152.

So... what clock speed should I get my Core 2 at? Keep in mind that I don't get the new clock speeds, I only understand them for single core.

What's bottlenecking my system more: my Pentium 4 3.2GHz, or my 1GB of generic DDR2 RAM?is it just the games or the whole system. if the Whole system, try bringing it up in safe mode. if that does come up normally, (without the bottlenecking) then the problem could be a driver.

bring it up step by step and each time activate a seperate driver, untill you find the cause.

also, don't forget to check your system for Malware, Spyware, and viruses. those can also cause bottle necking.

It's not just Oblivion, it's Company of Heroes too. So it's a whole system thing. I wanna know what I should upgrade next, my CPU or my RAM?

And yes, I have the latest 8800 drivers. I check just about every day.is it just CoH and Oblivion?

I doubt it's your CPU or Ram.

is it just CoH and Oblivion?

I doubt it's your CPU or Ram.

Yes, but I'd imagine it would be all high-end games.

Yes, but I'd imagine it would be all high-end games.

have you tried flushing your cache?

and has CoH and Obliv run smoothly before?

have you tried flushing your cache?

How?

and has CoH and Obliv run smoothly before?

Both slow down when action kicks up.

Uhhh... bump?

Well, I read up on the situation. Turns out that the Pentium 4, which I thought was still pretty decent, is actually craptacular. Definitely upgrading to a Core 2.

It's the RAM, the largest easily findable RAM on a vid card is 512MB and for damn sure any games made int he past 2 years need alot more than that to run well, then you get into stuff like Oblivion? It will eat 1GB RAM, even with a 256-512MB card. You can't play shit that is that computer intensive with everything on and not have more RAM. However, you may be your assumption that you can run the game however you want that is hurting it - turn off some of the extra lighting effects and make sure your vid card drivers are up-to-date. I don't remember how much nVidia updates drivers, but you can get new ATI drivers once month or more.


Well, I read up on the situation. Turns out that the Pentium 4, which I thought was still pretty decent, is actually craptacular. Definitely upgrading to a Core 2.
You will need to buy a new motherboard and everything. A Pentium 4 is perfectly sufficient, the Core 2 series just blows everything out of the water, even the slower ones.

It's the RAM, the largest easily findable RAM on a vid card is 512MB and for damn sure any games made int he past 2 years need alot more than that to run well, then you get into stuff like Oblivion? It will eat 1GB RAM, even with a 256-512MB card. You can't play shit that is that computer intensive with everything on and not have more RAM. However, you may be your assumption that you can run the game however you want that is hurting it - turn off some of the extra lighting effects and make sure your vid card drivers are up-to-date.

1) My graphics card has 768MB of RAM
2) It's a fricken' 8800!

1) My graphics card has 768MB of RAM
Still nothing, get more RAM.

2) It's a fricken' 8800!
Thanks for saying nothing important. Update its drivers and get more RAM.
Since I doubt you have updated it before this one, it probably fixed a number of problems.
http://www.nvidia.com/object/winxp_2k_97.92.html

Still nothing, get more RAM.

What do you mean, nothing? For a graphics card, that's tons of RAM.

Thanks for saying nothing important. Update its drivers and get more RAM.
Since I doubt you have updated it before this one, it probably fixed a number of problems.
http://www.nvidia.com/object/winxp_2k_97.92.html

I check just about every day for updates.

What do you mean, nothing? For a graphics card, that's tons of RAM.
But it can't handle everything you need for what you want to play, especially with all the effects you want on, and I'm not sure all of what it handles anyway.


I check just about every day for updates.
And what's your last update.

But it can't handle everything you need for what you want to play, especially with all the effects you want on, and I'm not sure all of what it handles anyway.

According to System Req Labs, the RAM is fine; what's really shafting me is the processor.

And what's your last update.

The newest one.

According to System Req Labs, the RAM is fine; what's really shafting me is the processor.


According to Systems Requirement lab, I decently surpass all minimum requirements for Oblivion, but I can't run the game in 800x600 with everything off.
I've tried.

According to Systems Requirement lab, I decently surpass all minimum requirements for Oblivion, but I can't run the game in 800x600 with everything off.
I've tried.

What are you running?

what are you running?
Athlon 64 3300
1.5GB RAM
256MB Radeon 9600 PRO

Anyway, if you want to upgrade the processor, you will have to replace half everything.

Athlon 64 3300
1.5GB RAM
256MB Radeon 9600 PRO

I don't know AMD processors, so I can't comment on that. You should have enough RAM. The GPU really kills the deal, though, that just won't do.

Anyway, if you want to upgrade the processor, you will have to replace half everything.

Why does everyone keep saying that? I upgraded in December, and I specifically designed my computer to be ready for the future; my motherboard is good for up to a quad core. So, I'm good for Core 2 Duo.

Hit Ctrl + Alt + Delete and bring up the taskmanager, then just look to see under Processes whats taking up CPU percents.

Why does everyone keep saying that?

It depends if your motherboard supports the chipset for the Core 2.

How?do a search for all *.Tmp files. (delete them)
remove Cookies
and there should be a function in your control panel to clear your cache.
reboot.


Both slow down when action kicks up. but has the games run smoothly before? even with all the action?

It depends if your motherboard supports the chipset for the Core 2.

For the last time, it does. Why do people always assume that I'm incompetant :( I am doing a Certificate IV in Programming, you know...

but has the games run smoothly before? even with all the action?

In hindsight, no, not really. It's not terribly bad, it's just that with this graphics card, it all should run flawlessly.

In hindsight, no, not really. It's not terribly bad, it's just that with this graphics card, it all should run flawlessly.

then the problem might be either your drivers or the card.

then the problem might be either your drivers or the card.

Nah, it's probably the weak processor.

For the last time, it does. Why do people always assume that I'm incompetant :( I am doing a Certificate IV in Programming, you know...

Maybe the fact this thread exists?

Athlon 64 3300
1.5GB RAM
256MB Radeon 9600 PRO

Anyway, if you want to upgrade the processor, you will have to replace half everything.
Yeah, but the 9600 is two line-ups old. I'm surprised it can even run the game.

Yeah, but the 9600 is two line-ups old. I'm surprised it can even run the game.

It can't, not outside an absurdly small size with no options, but it runs everything else I'm interested in just fine.

It can't, not outside an absurdly small size with no options, but it runs everything else I'm interested in just fine.
Wow. I'm surprised you are able to anything. I'd thought it'd be too much for the card to render so it'd just render everything without textures like my other comp does.

The problem is that I don't think I realised how far behind I was; the original Core didn't get too much publicity, IMO, so I'm actually 2 generations behind.

Well, Core 1 did not diserve much publicity.